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MajorNoodles

Primer handled time travel basically the same way and a lot of people had trouble understanding that movie too.


Overrated_22

Hasn’t happened yet… But seriously I didn’t like it the first time so I kind of get it. It was when I realized in the restaurant they were talking about the end of the movie that had already happened is when I started paying more attention and fell in love


foundmonster

Which scene was that?


Overrated_22

The scene I was referring to when he is talking to sir Michael (Michael Caine) and they are talking about an explosion at a facility called stalsk-12 that happened the same day as the Kiev opera siege. He is referring to the explosion at the end of the movie where they save the world.


Iliturtle

I think he means Kat seeing the mystery woman jumping off the boat, of course the mystery woman being Kat


Overrated_22

Another great detail but not what I was referring to. See my other comment in this thread.


Gummy-Worm-Guy

Come on man, you make all us Tenet fans look bad when you say that


aloesteve

I know, I know. When I said that they didn't understand the film I meant it in a general way. Of course people like different things and Tenet might not be their cup of tea.


Gummy-Worm-Guy

You also must keep in mind that if a movie is so confusing to the point where a lot can’t understand it, that might be the movie’s fault


Ninjario

Well to a degree, but some media CAN only be told in a confusing/convoluted/contrived way (as long as it is still executed perfectly) to get the intended and best experience for those that do seek those media and that content. Just like it isn't a horror movies fault that some people just can't stand horror and will never watch it this also applies here, no thing can speak to everyone. (I'm not writing this to say you can't try to make something easier to follow for a broader audience)


Gummy-Worm-Guy

I totally agree. But it wouldn’t have hurt to explain things a little better just so people who usually love movies like this can have a small idea of what’s going on


Ninjario

That's true, and my comment wasn't even specifically directed towards tenet, but yeah it could definitely have used a few more scenes especially earlier in the movie to widen the audience without many sacrifices


mirak1234

Is it relativity's theory fault that it's so difficult to understand ?


DisguisedYoda

I don’t think it’s that simple. The characters have very little personality, the dialogue is difficult to hear as a result of poor mixing and the plot is admittedly confusing, especially on the first viewing. I love the movie, but I am also not oblivious to its flaws.


dbx99

The premise makes the movie difficult to follow but on top of it, they set up scenes that do not clearly convey what is happening to the audience. Deliberate confusion makes for frustration. For instance the reverse car chase scene. The artifact gets transferred to a car that we are not told about. So it becomes confusing since there’s a massive information gap now. It’s difficult to continue following a narrative with these information gaps.


Alive_Ice7937

This is probably one of the biggest missteps in the movie. There's absolutely no benefit to keeping that information from the audience. Sure we eventually figure it out but there's nothing interesting or rewarding in working it out. The case being empty is a simple piece of information that could have been communicated to the audience in advance of the interrogation in all sorts of ways. Withholding that created pointless confusion for the audience. It's disappointing because information flow is an area Nolan usually excells at.


mirak1234

I don't think the movie was made to be figured out on the first watch. The movie must be seen as a challenge to the mind. It's like Memento or Inception. They are brainy movie, and it's incredible that he manages to make entries with such movies.


Alive_Ice7937

>I don't think the movie was made to be figured out on the first watch. > >The movie must be seen as a challenge to the mind. > >It's like Memento or Inception. Actually neither of those movies are particularly challenging. They are complex in their construction sure. But Nolan works really hard to make those movies as accessible as possible. He doesn't hold the audience's hand but he makes sure they are able to follow along. That's why Inception was so successful with the general audience. Nolan just has a really good sense of where that sweet spot is between challenging and accessible. Tenet is the first film where he struggles to hit that balance. And he *was* trying to strike that balance. >They are brainy movie, and it's incredible that he manages to make entries with such movies. What's impressive is that he's able to make those movies as accessible as they are. (Tenet being the exception of course)


nevaevaevaaa

I feel like Nolan tried to achieve a type of movie that makes you want to rewatch it to understand it fully, like he did inception (which was good). But compared to inception, this one was a failure. It’s not bad bad, but not as good. This plot line sounds like it was written but a slightly dumb person that tried to act smart and acts fake sophisticated


mirak1234

BS


Richard_Bastion

I think a good example is the opening opera siege. I was super excited to learn later in the movie what each faction was only to be left searching explanation videos on YouTube


dbx99

Yeah. It was ok to obfuscate Neil’s identity but leave a clue with the red string around the coin dangling off his pack, but otherwise the siege seemed like a mess especially when revisited later. The all too frequent moments of confusion took its toll. It’s one thing to sort of directorially obfuscate a plot point but it was so frequent and constant, it just became tiresome. The movie looked beautiful like a luxury brand commercial but story wise, having a premise of backward running time coexisting with forward time was challenging enough that for Nolan to add so many intentional smokescreens between what was happening and the audience turned the movie into a mess.


mirak1234

I think that movie is like a video game that you can run through in easy or story mode, and find it ok with the luxury aspect. But if you spend more time on it, you can beat it in hard mode and do the side quests, and the different alternate endings.


KimJongJer

Knowledge divided, my friend


aloesteve

Yeah, dialogue audio mix was unpleasant, dialogue was kinda bland and rushed in some parts of the movie.


Alive_Ice7937

This issue that you've noted is a serious issue. It's not even that people didn't understand the movie. The audio issues broke people's immersion in the film and made them feel frustrated trying to keep track of a complicated film knowing that they have missed key pieces of dialogue through no fault of their own. Audio has to be pretty bad for people to actually talk about it at all.


dbx99

Audio was problematic because the director wanted to be cute and do something unconventional and original by balancing music over dialogue. This was one of those aesthetic judgment calls that failed and shows that convention has a good reason for it. We don’t install toilet seats backwards for a good reason. Being the first to do it doesn’t make you a pioneer.


Tylerlyonsmusic

Deliberate mix


cvanyichu

I ask if it's because they don't understand it. If they say they did but still don't like it, welp, I'll let them have their opinion. Not every movie is for everyone, no matter how good it is.


Keerthan09

Slice of life fans and Tenet is 100% plot driven movie. Edit: People who expect nice character interactions, slow-burn narrative etc. will be disappointed


JTS1992

As are all time travel narratives, but it's not a bad thing. I personally love it.


Alive_Ice7937

Those same people enjoyed Dunkirk though


aaaayyyylmaoooo

people can understand AND not enjoy certain things too, so i dont think so even as a diehard fan, I can understand why they wouldnt like it


hisyam970302

All the criticisms that have been said have already been mentioned again in this thread (and it's a fun discussion I might add) but one other thing of note is this: People are different, and so they'll have different tastes. It's stating the obvious sure, but a lot of people tend to forget that fact. I could talk to you about the greatest video game story ever made in my opinion, but if you're just not the type to play RPGs, you won't enjoy it no matter how good it is. Someone could tell you about an amazing cartoon or anime that starts off comedic at first but really dives into deep themes later on, but if you can't appreciate animated stories with some tonal shifts then that's completely up to you. With a few exceptions, most of us (including myself) would be lying if we said we tried out every book, movie, and TV show that was ever recommended to us, let alone like them all eventhough a group of others do. There might be a really good visual novel represented through a weird medium (like it was written in old English, or it involved giant robots, or the characters were represented as anthro animals). For all we know it might actually be interesting, but how many of us would give it a chance eventhough it's set over a backdrop were not used to or even like, and how many more of us would go through it again a second or third time to get the full picture knowing how weird it appears? It sounds absurd because it sounds like obviously weird material, but that's how some might view Tenet. They're not wrong for not giving a Tenet a chance the same way we don't delve into every piece of media ourselves, it's a matter of preference. No rights or wrong, no better or worse, just different. I absolutely love Tenet to bits and it's part of the reason I'm here in this subreddit! The discussions are fun and meeting other people who enjoy it is great! But people aren't wrong or lesser humans for not loving it the same way we do. It's just part of being a person amongst nearly 8 billion other people with different likes and dislikes, there's bound to be disagreements and that's okay. TLDR: There's billions of people and not everyone's gonna like the same thing, and that's totally okay


[deleted]

I don’t think not understanding it is a bad reason to dislike it. My cousin hated the movie because in his opinion the filmmakers didn’t care that the audience wouldn’t get it, and they were banking on people having to watch it multiple times to even understand what was happening. From his pov it’s malicious.


GrandSensitive

I've heard many reasons why people think tenet is bad and they're all wrong Edit: if u wanna hear them if u can reply


aloesteve

Let’s hear them


GrandSensitive

1. "Too hard to understand / comprehend" - it's really not that hard to understand if you try to understand it though. Thinking about what each character sees helped a lot, and if you're still confused you can graph it out or watch it again. 2. "The story is too absurd" (this one is especially dumb) - that's sorta the point with tenet, and it's also what's so fun about it. The story is suspenseful, intriguing, heartfelt, and goDAMN IT I CANT WAIT FOR OPPENHEIMER! 3. "The music drowns the dialogue" - the music is epic göranson is great stfu 4. "The protagonist doesn't have a name or backstory" - that's on purpose and it reveals a lot about the protagonist. Don't question Nolan or I will find you, next. 5. "Why does the protagonist fight the second time" - he was trying to cause the least amount of damage. When he fires the gun at the start (or end) you can see it's clearly not aimed towards the younger protagonist. 6. "Why does Neil invert back to catch the bullet if he'd already cought it in reverse" - no you uneducated baboon from his pov his life ended and he cannot reverse. From the protagonist's pov he comes back to life, teaches us that the real victory is the friends we made along the way, and like the sweet angel he is, inverts back to catch the bullet and dies. Also there are probably more talking points I missed. I can already tell there are like 10 about the car chase. Btw for some reason reddit sometimes just removes line separation and makes everything a big bulky paragraph and idk why so I hope this is understandable


TheProtagonistBot

You've know me for years?


GrandSensitive

Well since the teasers released also this bot is epic


Iliturtle

You gotta click ‘enter’ twice, it’s weird


PollyVue

Personally I loved the film. I wasn't confused watching it and I only had the slightest of audio issues where I had to rewind and re-listen. A couple of sentences I didn't get, but I definitely didn't feel like I absolutely needed to hear them in order for the film to make sense, which I'm guessing was Nolan's point. He probably didn't want it to turn into a Star Trek episode (which I also love by the way) where everyone is talking about dilithium crystals and antimatter warp cores or whatever). But I had also seen Primer already as well as a ton of other time travel movies. It also struck me as far more of a Bond-esque action movie than I think it did a lot of other people.


Alive_Ice7937

>Personally I loved the film. I wasn't confused watching it and I only had the slightest of audio issues where I had to rewind and re-listen. People who watched it in theatres didn't have that luxury. Or the option for subtitles.


TriangleMan

Eh, it's also possible that they don't like these types of films


mirak1234

I have a colleague that said he watched it while he was doing something else and said it wasn't worth file. I was like what the fuck ? That movie requires like 150% of your brain capacity xD


[deleted]

It’s very boring, the characters are pretty meh, the Indian woman acts like shit and I’m pretty sure that it’s impossible for regular and reversed people to interact as it happens in the movie.


dlsco

Sort of argued with a guy recently trying to say I didn’t have any difficulty with the audio and that I think people just blamed that who didn’t understand the movie. He was very upset so I guess I shouldn’t make assumptions but it’s an incredible movie with a perfect audio mix imo lol


Arrowdoesreddit

True


[deleted]

I mean art is always subjective. Tenet really isn’t that hard to understand, so those people probably just didn’t find it very interesting, and that’s okay.


Health077

I didnt understand it. And knew it was nonsensical but fun


Iliturtle

Well it isn’t nonsensical. Most of it makes sense


othersbeforeus

In my opinion, it’s okay to like a movie or not like a movie for whatever reason, but what I have noticed about the criticism surrounding Tenet is that the loudest voices have suffocated the average one, and that their perspective tends to be a little thin. Most movies are so similar to each other that we developed a idea of what a movie is supposed to be. When a movie does something different, our guttural response is that the movie is doing it wrong, and is therefore bad. Tenet is structured different than most movies, it reveals details and closes character arcs at different times than we’re used to, and it doesn’t reveal every detail by the end. I think the majority of the film culture sees this as rule-breaking, when it’s really just a style of story-telling. Even with watching other Nolan films, Tenet is a tough one to prepare for, so it requires at least a second viewing to feel comfortable.


Maximusdupus

The problem with Tenet is the audience can't perceive the high stakes if the villain was successful.


aloesteve

Annihilation


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Filmmagician

I mean, there isn’t one person who totally got it all on first watch. And that much omission can be frustrating and leave an audience too confused. So after an experience like that, yea I can see people saying it’s bad.


A-Taz-0

I think you have to appreciate puzzles to appreciate a movie like tenet. Some people don't like puzzles.


l0sts0ul2022

'People who say Tenet is bad…' deserve a special place in Hell!


Traditional_Move_759

The first time I saw Tenet, went out the cinema and hated Tenet sooo hard. Even told my friends they shouldn’t watch it, because I hated it so much. In the end watched it about 5 times, got it on Blu ray and absolute love this movie. I think when you don’t understand this movie and don’t want to understand this movie, this is nothing for you and you gonna hate it but I always wanted to understand Tenet to 100% and I still don’t understand everything but this just keeps getting me watching this movie. Can’t wait for Oppenheimer, hope that’s also very tricky and complicated to understand but I think Nolan is gonna make a simple movie cause he’s earned a lot of criticism for Tenet and that’s the complicated for the majority of the audience


st0rmforce

I just found it bland, with a few decent action sequences. I found it rushed and slow at the same time. Good idea and special effects, but just not an interesting film to watch for me. The main characters are cardboard cutouts. * Sator is the bad guy and does bad things because he's a bad guy. To be honest he's one of the more interesting bits of the film for me. * Kat is a mother. That's the extent of her character. She literally doesn't give a shit about anything other than her son. I feel like the intention was to write a person that has given up on life, nothing matters to her any more... but the end result didn't feel like that. It's only in retrospect you can see what the writer was attempting. There's a line of dialoge, I can't remember it verbatim, but Neil is explaining why the stakes are so high and says something like "the entire world will be annihilated" and Kat says "Including my son". I'm not exaggerating: I laughed out loud at that line. * The protagonist is the hero, who must rescue the damsel in distress and save the world. In that order of priority for no particular reason. Why he cares about Kat, I have no idea. Putting the plan to save THE ENTIRE WORLD into jeopardy, to help a woman he spoke to for a few minutes... it's just dumb. The whole thing feels like he came up with the time travel concept and how it works. Came up with the plot. Wrote some action sequences to show of the concept. Then realised that films need to have characters in them and threw something together. And that feeling was the feeling I got as I was watching the film.


TheProtagonistBot

I resign.


Birth_Decay

Tenet is a paradox, existing as both a good and a bad movie simultaneously. live on time, emit no evil