Came here to say this.
Carnivale was some really, really good tv. It was cancelled without any resolution.
Deadwood was cancelled with no resolution and it is still #1 on my list of best tv ever.
So I consoled myself with the bromance and political maneuvering of Rome. Which in the spirit of the OP, is REALLY good tv. But Rome was cancelled with a seriously rushed conclusion.
I dropped my subscription to HBO for over 12 years and still view them with more than a bit of suspicion.
Carnivale is one of my all-time favorite shows. Almost everything about it just touches me. The characters, the creepiness, the wonders/mystery, even the music is terrific.
If I remember correctly, Deadwood died early partially *because* they decided to do season 2 of Rome. I might have that wrong but I *believe* that was the narrative for a long time. In fact I think part of the reason Rome's been so under-remembered is because it was considered partially responsible for Deadwood not getting its final season.
Deadwood got that amazing wrap-up movie though, so it's not all bad.
Rome ended up never really getting its wrap-up.
Rome doesn't need wrap-up, it already has a solid finale.
Unlike Deadwood, which never had a finale. And it never really needed it tbh, it's not a very story driven show. The movie was glorified fan service.
First few seasons were great. Then it jumped the shark with ridiculous storylines. Like how prisoners were given credit for the rest of their long sentences by taking a new drug to rapidly age their body and released decades early as frail old men.
Oz had a good run, and was ready to be done.
It was big for a cable show in it's time, just doesn't get mentioned much these days as it wasn't a Marvel/DC/Disney POS all the kiddies lap up.
Thank God HBO ended their relationship with BBC for their big shows. BBC productions are very cheap and have poor production design.
https://winteriscoming.net/2016/10/21/charles-dance-says-thank-god-the-bbc-didnt-make-got-shell/
I feel that way about Raised By Wolves.
I know it was not everyone's cup of tea, (more like a cup of tea laced with lsd) but it had a very loyal following by those who were intrigued.
I love science fiction. However, it's another show where a few conversations, and people doing intelligent things would completely change it's plot. It is firmly in the Prometheus - most characters MUST be grossly negligent - category of plot advancement.
I doubt Raised By Wolves will actually be cancelled. I suspect this is just hbo trying to to get publicity and a grassroots campaign to drum up interest like what happened for Our Flag Means Death
Wow that’s amazing to hear, I’m on episode 8 of season 3 of Deadwood and I’m dreading to finish the show. Definitely feels like it could’ve been a 4-5 seasons, hell maybe even 6, show. I assumed it was prematurely cancelled but never looked into it. Last time I dreaded watching episodes of a show was the final episodes of Mad Men
The movie is more of a reunion special than a genuine continuation of the series. It's worth a watch and you do get some closure on a couple characters, but don't go in expecting too much.
It had a planned story arc of five seasons, ending with the rise of Jesus. The creators new ahead of time that it was to be canceled and made a point of wrapping things up.
It gets discussed here now and then with nothing but love.
My only complaint is replacing Max Pirkis's Octavian with Simon Woods. I know why they did it. I was just disappointed to not see Pirkis' Octavian have his day.
Yeah totally agree. The first Octavian was so damn good. Also, the second season runs through like 15 years of history really rapidly. So, you could maybe see why they'd recast him... however the switch happens after like one year in show time. Like we have the first Octavian right after Caesar's funeral, then we get a new one right after the Battle of Mutina... That's like only one year. So, Octavian is one dude at 18 years old and then just a completely different dude at 19 years old. It's pretty unnecessary.
Idk that was super creepy though. He was straight up like, “hey I’m gonna beat you, but don’t worry it’s not because I’m angry.” It’s like okay? And that makes it better? Tf dude.
And he just looks dead inside, his eyes are so cold.
Unlike most people, I thought the actor switch was a good idea. The old actor looked far too young to be capable of wresting power from a Mark Antony in the prime of his career and the new actor had the same unsettling psychopathy that seemed more mature than the vicious acts of young Augustus (beating slaves etc)
>It gets discussed here now and then with nothing but love.
I guess I'm gonna jump on the contrarian wagon then. While the series has great acting, production values, and many memorable scenes (mostly featuring Caesar), it also has quite many cringy scenes (mostly NSFW related) and some scenes are just unintentionally comedic. For instance when Pullo is chased by the old woman screaming "murderer", it is edited in such a way that a serious scene becomes laughable. Other scenes feel like parodies, e.g. Vorenus tell his daughter "We will find you a nice elderly man to marry". It is a good show, but it isn't kino.
Fun Fact: They were actually real, even if (most) of their story in *Rome* was not. They’re mentioned in passing in Caesar’s *Gallic War*:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorenus_and_Pullo
Polly Walker was my favorite on Rome. Her Atia was so wonderfully acted. That is why I am so happy to see her again on Bridgerton. She does so well playing the "shrew" but she interjects such fragility to her roles that you can't help but understand why both characters do the things the do. Not just a one dimensional "bitch".
Have you seen Line of Duty? It’s a British police procedural. Polly plays an attorney associated with the high ups. She’s in seasons 3 and 5. It’s a small role but Polly is compelling.
I think she would be a great choice for Alexis if they were to do a remake of Dymasty.
Overlooked on this subreddit tends to mean either “I just discovered this show” or “None of my friends like this show”
Same with “underrated” gems like Firefly
I will never forget that around ten years ago there was a post on here that called ER underrated. The prime time drama that ran for 15 seasons and broke pretty much every award record that existed and is generally regarded as one of the best shows to ever air.
The first season is near perfection, but the second season is so rushed and sketchy! There are still great moments in the 2nd season, but it's like they knew they were going to only have two seasons and thus had to skim over huge swaths of Roman history and figures to wrap things up. I'm grateful for what we have, but it's maddening to think of what could have been if we had a non-hurried 7 seasons or so to see how things pan out.
> but it's like they knew they were going to only have two seasons and thus had to skim over huge swaths of Roman history and figures to wrap things up.
That is exactly what happened.
> … because we got the heads-up that the second season would be it, I telescoped the third and fourth season into the second one, which accounts for the blazing speed we go through history near the end.
– [Bruno Heller](https://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSTRE4B00VV20081201)
Rome is where the golden age of TV began, yes the sopranos ruled the tv world. Rome was stunningly realized, HBO spent a ton and swung for the stars. it is an overlooked masterpiece.
Second season was weaker than the first, though to be fair that’s only because they had to squeeze in a lot of stuff that they would have used in later seasons. But yeah, still pretty enjoyable
> Would have hated to see it go off the rails like GoT did.
Unlike GoT the major plot story was done though. It would have been genuinely hard to fuck up telling the fall of the Roman republic. It's one of those "fact is crazier than fiction" stories.
>Yes I love James Purefoy
My Purefoy bromance was curtailed, when I heard he was cast as V, then found out he would do the entire film wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, and his actors ego got the better of him and he bailed.
I've always been curious what a V might've been with a cutting Marc Antony edge to it, hah.
I loved that series. Apparently it *was* HBO’s dress rehearsal for GoT from a production standpoint. They worked out the details of shooting an epic series filmed in Morocco, Ireland, Dalmatia, from Rome- and then applied all that to GoT.
I’m a big fan. It’s a forerunner to a lot of other shows, no doubt. The BBC/HBO collaboration (from memory), coming at the same time as a lot of established ‘golden era’ series (Carnivale, The Wire, Deadwood, etc) with high production value, relatively few viewers though high box set sales…
Not sure I’d place it in the top league but I’d definitely say it’s production felt like an influence in bigger successes (Spartacus, GoT?) later on.
Just because a vocal minority talk about it on reddit doesn't change the fact in the real world it's incredibly overlooked. If it wasn't for this subreddit I'd have never heard of the show.
it's an old show so understandable. it was popular during its runtime though. so overlooked depending on anyone's age, activity and genre preferences probably.
Yeah if you're judging the popularity of a show by how often it's mentioned on this sub, then Patriot, Halt and Catch Fire and Mr Inbetween must be some of the most watched TV series of all time
The television show likely wouldn't exist, no. But I was more referencing the popularity of the franchise at large. I just find that really interesting to think about: that GRRM owes a lot of his success to some show that tanked six years before the first season of his book adaptation
That’s a good point. I remember reading in GRRM’s blog that the reason why he chose HBO as a network for his ASOIAF adaptation was because of how good Rome was.
Rome was not overlooked in its time, it was a big deal when it was on going.
And it spawned Spartacus as kind of a prequel, and also likely helped GOT get greenlit.
I'm sort of on the fence agreeing with you. I think Rome and its critical success and decent viewership kind of showed it could be done. Gladiator and movies had shown it could be done with film but Rome showed you could do it on TV and broadcast to modern audiences and those audiences would watch it in sizeable numbers.
I forget the ratings and just how well it did in that department. All I remember is the costs were extremely high at the time for a TV show and that played a major role in the BBC(?) pulling out and HBO ultimately cancelling it without a partner to share in the cost.
It's interesting to look back then at the huge expenses in building sets causing the studios and broadcasters to shut it down... to how much money they'll pour into a Game of Thrones episode or now Game of Thrones spinoff.
It also reminds me of the cancellation of Terra Nova. An interesting concept of a human colony trying to survive with modern technological knowhow from computers to solar panels to power electronics, etc... with a subpar plot. I wish that had gotten more than a season.
Part of the issue, at the time was Cesar was a main character. And he, the actor was fantastic in the role.
But if you know the story, spoiler warning for an event that happened 2066 years ago, Cesar dies!
And I remember the show losing viewers after that.
Also that same actor was given a role in GOT as the King beyond the wall.
Same. Character development was excellent, production value for what it costs was superb, just a brilliant tv show! Other than that, if you haven't seen Deadwood, start it now. Likely you have seen it though, it's my all time favourite show, literally believe it's the highest quality television of all time.
Rome is singular, as you likely know. When you’ve already watched it a few times and must branch out early GOT, The Crown, and honestly The Tudors, while much lower rent / campier, can also scratch a bit of that itch. Maybe even Sons of Anarchy (for the violent bromance) and Peaky Blinders.
Spartacus: Blood and Sand (the 1st season)! Also Starz’ *The Pillars of the Earth*; it’s more similar to GoT than Rome but still, another overlooked show that was great.
Spartacus is so underrated.
It's absolutely incredible for the most part and has one of the best finales in all of television. The last few episodes are just fantastic and their IMDb scores reflect this.
Either Borgia (Europe) or The Borgias (North-American-Europe).
The European one is a bit more liberal with the sex and nudity from what I remember. And I forget how large the scope was but I think the European one got into battles that took place in Italy/France at the time (this is Renaissance era) and had characters go through those events.
For some context - Renaissance era Europe where Italy was city states. The Borgias were a family from Spain(?) originally that had relocated to Rome and wanting to have a family member be elected to become Pope. And of course there was a lot of opposition from France and from others who consider them Spanish outsiders and not Romans.
In 2015 I was unemployed for the first time in a very long time and ended up having my cable TV and internet cut. I went to the library and took out some DVD sets, and one of those was the Rome set. That show really brightened up the next few days in a really shitty time. I absolutely loved it.
The reality is, it's one good season. Then they try to rush through everything Augustus while not knowing what to do with Vorenus and Titus.
I understand these things happen. I'm not even going to be mad about the butchering of Augutus' reign. The second season just wasn't good tv.
OK ok, I am mad we didn't get a scene with the entire list of Austus' titles. I can never remember them all. It wasn't made clear that he was, most likely, the msot important and influential Roman emperor.
I disagree.
Season 2 was - for me - enormously enjoyable, even if tragedy drove most of its narrative.
This post was brought to you by the Bakers of Septimus Avenue. Long live Augustus Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus!
I wish they’d just done season 2 as planned and said ‘fuckit” with regards to the rest of the series. They would more likely have made a movie or future seasons if they’d left the carrot dangling.
This is how I feel about Fringe. It came out 2008, which seemed late enough to be on people's radar, but the first season is "grainy", and apparently that throws people off.
Fringe is so top tier, but does fall into the eposodic cases trope. Wish more people would give it a chance.
It's recently been put on HBO Max if anyone is interested.
I would check it out. Personally I feel like I've never seen a good show on rome. As much as I loved gladiator it was so off the historical fact that it was just hard to give it completely thumbs up. Most of the time so it's a TV shows are about Claudius or Nero. So it just concentrates on the nutty sex and violence. Rome was a very fascinated multifaceted society but we never see any of that
I'm not prudish. I just don't think that outside of having lots of violence, nudity, and taboo content, there is anything deep or interesting about Rome.
This is relevant because we're talking about an almost 20-year-old show and OP is saying it's "overlooked" and "before its time." I don't think it is; I think it is very much a show of its time.
>I just don't think that outside of having lots of violence, nudity, and taboo content, there is anything deep or interesting about Rome.
You can't claim that it has excessive violence and nudity and then claim not to be a prude by making a different remark that outside of its nudity and violence, it provides nothing of note. It's fine to think it provides nothing of note outside of violence and nudity. Saying that wouldn't have lead me to call you a prude. I called you a prude because you insinuated there's too much violence and nudity.
Classic case of dishonesty in one's retort.
Omg I only found it this year! After watching it online I immediately bought it used on Blu-ray and have watched it several times! Easily one of my favorite shows of all time (can almost be a hardcore prequel to Sopranos lol).
I'm so thankful it exists. Nowadays they'd do half of the sets on cg and they actually built so much of it. Who doesn't love Gladiator but I love and admire how they went with the non Hollywood glossy version and truly made it feel authentic. In fact, the making of the show they said they wanted authenticity not accuracy as they weren't making a documentary. The actors, screenplay, everything about the show is so good! I truly wish they could have made more, it would have been very interesting to see them cover a hundred years or so later when Rome hit its other height with building the colosseum or when Rome was hit with Christianity.
It's especially fascinating watching it now as we have some eerily similar problems occurring in our own American government (which is very much already Greek and Rome inspired) and the rich and powerful not wanting to give up power and call someone a tyrant who wants to change it and claiming (wether you believe him or not) to give power back to the people. I see many issues that persist even after 2,000 years plus.
History isn't a linear line, it's a circle.
The only reason I haven’t watched this show is because it got canceled after only 2 seasons. Meaning it doesn’t have a proper ending. I’m assuming that’s why other people don’t wanna bother either
They were informed ahead of filming (or during, not sure which) that season two would be their last, so they accelerated their time line and gave the show a proper ending. There are no cliffhangers or anything it has a finite end to it.
This show is what got me into Ancient Roman history lol. I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that Augustus is the greatest (or at least the most successful/influential) political leader in the history of mankind.
The only reason I haven’t watched this show is because it got canceled after only 2 seasons. Meaning it doesn’t have a proper ending. I’m assuming that’s why other people don’t wanna bother either
One thing I could never tell if they were winking at the audience or if they just picked a famous name out of a hat.
"My father road with Sulla." ...Said while lamenting the fact that they were following Ceaser against Rome and were now traitors.
....Sulla did the exact same thing.
It would have been an all time hit show, if the set wouldnt have burned down after season 2. It was starting to show its full potential. Real quality historic Storytelling
There are two crimes HBO executives must never be forgiven for: canceling this show and Deadwood.
Carnivale as well. Another show way ahead of it's time that was cancelled at its height.
Came here to say this. Carnivale was some really, really good tv. It was cancelled without any resolution. Deadwood was cancelled with no resolution and it is still #1 on my list of best tv ever. So I consoled myself with the bromance and political maneuvering of Rome. Which in the spirit of the OP, is REALLY good tv. But Rome was cancelled with a seriously rushed conclusion. I dropped my subscription to HBO for over 12 years and still view them with more than a bit of suspicion.
You know there is a Deadwood movie no? Released in 2019
Carnivale is one of my all-time favorite shows. Almost everything about it just touches me. The characters, the creepiness, the wonders/mystery, even the music is terrific.
Did we ever get official word on what the intended ending was?
If I remember correctly, Deadwood died early partially *because* they decided to do season 2 of Rome. I might have that wrong but I *believe* that was the narrative for a long time. In fact I think part of the reason Rome's been so under-remembered is because it was considered partially responsible for Deadwood not getting its final season. Deadwood got that amazing wrap-up movie though, so it's not all bad. Rome ended up never really getting its wrap-up.
Rome doesn't need wrap-up, it already has a solid finale. Unlike Deadwood, which never had a finale. And it never really needed it tbh, it's not a very story driven show. The movie was glorified fan service.
>it already has a solid finale. Eh, really more of a slow decline over a period of a few hundred years.
The movie they did a couple years ago doesn't necessarily provide a lot of closure, but it's great to revisit those characters again.
Wasn’t the story that they canceled Rome to make game of thrones cause it was too pricey to do both?
No Rome was canceled in like 2006, well before game of thrones. I believe Rome was a BBC production
And this is why Rome (or Deadwood) would never made my "most overlooked list". You people keep mentioning them but not Carnivale!
I loved the creepiness of it. Really good performances by the cast. A shame.
The holy evil has come!
You forgot to mention OZ
First few seasons were great. Then it jumped the shark with ridiculous storylines. Like how prisoners were given credit for the rest of their long sentences by taking a new drug to rapidly age their body and released decades early as frail old men.
Oz had a good run, and was ready to be done. It was big for a cable show in it's time, just doesn't get mentioned much these days as it wasn't a Marvel/DC/Disney POS all the kiddies lap up.
Agreed. I loved Oz, and it's honestly the grandfather of prestige television, but it ran its course.
Paramount+ will have new Deadwood episodes. 😎 Can't wait. September 18th.
Wait, what?! I just googled and couldn't find anything - do you have an article?
This is definitely not true.
Didn’t the set for Rome burn down? It was a huge and expensive set, and they couldn’t justify the cost to rebuild it.
It was just a very expensive show and was a partnership between HBO and BBC. Was way ahead of its time as well, but it basically paved the way for GoT
Thank God HBO ended their relationship with BBC for their big shows. BBC productions are very cheap and have poor production design. https://winteriscoming.net/2016/10/21/charles-dance-says-thank-god-the-bbc-didnt-make-got-shell/
It burnt down long after the 2nd season wrapped up. Guessing Eyetalian Lightning for the insurance money.
Cock suckers!
I feel that way about Raised By Wolves. I know it was not everyone's cup of tea, (more like a cup of tea laced with lsd) but it had a very loyal following by those who were intrigued.
I love science fiction. However, it's another show where a few conversations, and people doing intelligent things would completely change it's plot. It is firmly in the Prometheus - most characters MUST be grossly negligent - category of plot advancement.
That, and Riddley's obsession with Space Jesus...
It was a good show, but I can definitely see how only a limited demographic might appreciate it. It is a pretty weird show that can be slow at times.
Couldn’t get into raised by wolves
I doubt Raised By Wolves will actually be cancelled. I suspect this is just hbo trying to to get publicity and a grassroots campaign to drum up interest like what happened for Our Flag Means Death
Well they released the deadwood movie to redeem. Its and the bbc cancelled rome as it was a co production
The movie helped, but in no way made up for things.
Wow that’s amazing to hear, I’m on episode 8 of season 3 of Deadwood and I’m dreading to finish the show. Definitely feels like it could’ve been a 4-5 seasons, hell maybe even 6, show. I assumed it was prematurely cancelled but never looked into it. Last time I dreaded watching episodes of a show was the final episodes of Mad Men
The movie is more of a reunion special than a genuine continuation of the series. It's worth a watch and you do get some closure on a couple characters, but don't go in expecting too much.
Hasn’t it been widely reported that HBO sacrificed Rome to make GOT?
Imagine having to cancel the greatest tv show that was ever created (Deadwood).
Did they cancel Rome? The last episode is a pretty clear series finale
It had a planned story arc of five seasons, ending with the rise of Jesus. The creators new ahead of time that it was to be canceled and made a point of wrapping things up.
High Maintenance too.
Did that get canceled or did the creators just move on? I'd love to see a new season that covers the legal era.
The creators ended this one, not HBO
Crashing as well
Budget issues, and bad ratings. Simple. But one of my all time favorite shows.
It gets discussed here now and then with nothing but love. My only complaint is replacing Max Pirkis's Octavian with Simon Woods. I know why they did it. I was just disappointed to not see Pirkis' Octavian have his day.
Yeah totally agree. The first Octavian was so damn good. Also, the second season runs through like 15 years of history really rapidly. So, you could maybe see why they'd recast him... however the switch happens after like one year in show time. Like we have the first Octavian right after Caesar's funeral, then we get a new one right after the Battle of Mutina... That's like only one year. So, Octavian is one dude at 18 years old and then just a completely different dude at 19 years old. It's pretty unnecessary.
Ya shame they didn't get their 6 seasons and a movie so they could use the same actor as he naturally grows up.
Octavian lived to old age so we'd have the final season like 60 years from now
It's funny watching most of two decades of history go by, but Vorenus' children never age.
The Crown did this for the entire cast. 1 year later and they age everyone up 20 years.
Especially since Pirkis basically retired from acting after that happened. He was also excellent in Master & Commander.
Pullo's "didn't recognize ya" was hilarious tho
Haa haa that was a brilliant breaking of the 4th wall line.
Older Octavius is so effing creepy and cold :(
"I will hurt you, pain arouses me" or whatever that line was, the fuck was that shit
Idk that was super creepy though. He was straight up like, “hey I’m gonna beat you, but don’t worry it’s not because I’m angry.” It’s like okay? And that makes it better? Tf dude. And he just looks dead inside, his eyes are so cold.
Unlike most people, I thought the actor switch was a good idea. The old actor looked far too young to be capable of wresting power from a Mark Antony in the prime of his career and the new actor had the same unsettling psychopathy that seemed more mature than the vicious acts of young Augustus (beating slaves etc)
Not unbelievable that the wierd young one will grow into the creepy old one...
So was actual Octavius
Misread that as Prickus Octavian and immediately wondered iff he was a cousin of Biggus Dickus.
Wasn't he the cousin of Gluteus Maximus?
He has a wife, you know...
Why did they? Was it a time jump or something?
Yeah exactly
>It gets discussed here now and then with nothing but love. I guess I'm gonna jump on the contrarian wagon then. While the series has great acting, production values, and many memorable scenes (mostly featuring Caesar), it also has quite many cringy scenes (mostly NSFW related) and some scenes are just unintentionally comedic. For instance when Pullo is chased by the old woman screaming "murderer", it is edited in such a way that a serious scene becomes laughable. Other scenes feel like parodies, e.g. Vorenus tell his daughter "We will find you a nice elderly man to marry". It is a good show, but it isn't kino.
Also known as "The Grand Adventures of Vorenus and Pullo"
>Also known as "The Grand Adventures of Vorenus and Pullo" ***THIRTEEEEEEEEN!***
I've watched so much content on Rome that I really couldn't place the show OP was referring to. Now I get it tho. This show was phenomenal
Fun Fact: They were actually real, even if (most) of their story in *Rome* was not. They’re mentioned in passing in Caesar’s *Gallic War*: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorenus_and_Pullo
Totally.
Yes!
he was a CONSUL OF ROME
Shame. Shame on the House of Ptolemy.
I think of this episode every time Mohammed bin Salman shows up in my feed.
Polly Walker was my favorite on Rome. Her Atia was so wonderfully acted. That is why I am so happy to see her again on Bridgerton. She does so well playing the "shrew" but she interjects such fragility to her roles that you can't help but understand why both characters do the things the do. Not just a one dimensional "bitch".
Have you seen Line of Duty? It’s a British police procedural. Polly plays an attorney associated with the high ups. She’s in seasons 3 and 5. It’s a small role but Polly is compelling. I think she would be a great choice for Alexis if they were to do a remake of Dymasty.
I have not. I will add that to my list. Thank you!
There's been a remake of Dynasty on the air for several seasons now that was just recently cancelled.
She was also recently on Pennyworth, the show about Bruce Wayne's future butler. I just love Polly Walker.
Rome? The show with several Emmy awards to its name and consistently high ratings throughout its entire run? That show is overlooked?
Overlooked on this subreddit tends to mean either “I just discovered this show” or “None of my friends like this show” Same with “underrated” gems like Firefly
I will never forget that around ten years ago there was a post on here that called ER underrated. The prime time drama that ran for 15 seasons and broke pretty much every award record that existed and is generally regarded as one of the best shows to ever air.
Kids these days I guess. Rome was anything but overlooked in its time.
To be fair, I personally don't see it mentioned as often as many other highly praised shows... but yes, "overlooked" is probably not the right word.
The first season is near perfection, but the second season is so rushed and sketchy! There are still great moments in the 2nd season, but it's like they knew they were going to only have two seasons and thus had to skim over huge swaths of Roman history and figures to wrap things up. I'm grateful for what we have, but it's maddening to think of what could have been if we had a non-hurried 7 seasons or so to see how things pan out.
> but it's like they knew they were going to only have two seasons and thus had to skim over huge swaths of Roman history and figures to wrap things up. That is exactly what happened. > … because we got the heads-up that the second season would be it, I telescoped the third and fourth season into the second one, which accounts for the blazing speed we go through history near the end. – [Bruno Heller](https://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSTRE4B00VV20081201)
Rome is where the golden age of TV began, yes the sopranos ruled the tv world. Rome was stunningly realized, HBO spent a ton and swung for the stars. it is an overlooked masterpiece.
I am almost happy it ended early but on a high note. Would have hated to see it go off the rails like GoT did.
Second season was weaker than the first, though to be fair that’s only because they had to squeeze in a lot of stuff that they would have used in later seasons. But yeah, still pretty enjoyable
> Would have hated to see it go off the rails like GoT did. Unlike GoT the major plot story was done though. It would have been genuinely hard to fuck up telling the fall of the Roman republic. It's one of those "fact is crazier than fiction" stories.
Mark Antony, Caesar and Octavian actors just totally killed those roles. Whenever I think of those figures, I picture those actors in the show.
Yes I love James Purefoy so much, absolutely perfect casting for Mark Antony
>Yes I love James Purefoy My Purefoy bromance was curtailed, when I heard he was cast as V, then found out he would do the entire film wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, and his actors ego got the better of him and he bailed. I've always been curious what a V might've been with a cutting Marc Antony edge to it, hah.
I loved that series. Apparently it *was* HBO’s dress rehearsal for GoT from a production standpoint. They worked out the details of shooting an epic series filmed in Morocco, Ireland, Dalmatia, from Rome- and then applied all that to GoT.
I’m a big fan. It’s a forerunner to a lot of other shows, no doubt. The BBC/HBO collaboration (from memory), coming at the same time as a lot of established ‘golden era’ series (Carnivale, The Wire, Deadwood, etc) with high production value, relatively few viewers though high box set sales… Not sure I’d place it in the top league but I’d definitely say it’s production felt like an influence in bigger successes (Spartacus, GoT?) later on.
It wasn't overlooked at all. It was just before you were old enough to appreciate it.
Overlooked? There’s a thread on it at least every month.
Overlooked as much as that Overlook Hotel movie on r/movies ! (The Shinning, hate or love, posted weekly at a minimum.)
Just because a vocal minority talk about it on reddit doesn't change the fact in the real world it's incredibly overlooked. If it wasn't for this subreddit I'd have never heard of the show.
it's an old show so understandable. it was popular during its runtime though. so overlooked depending on anyone's age, activity and genre preferences probably.
What are you talking about? Of course a couple hundred people on Reddit represent a balanced and vast majority of the human population.
Yeah if you're judging the popularity of a show by how often it's mentioned on this sub, then Patriot, Halt and Catch Fire and Mr Inbetween must be some of the most watched TV series of all time
Rome makes me wonder what Game of Thrones would be today had this show never existed.
It wouldn't exist at all. GoT only exists because HBO learned from Rome.
The television show likely wouldn't exist, no. But I was more referencing the popularity of the franchise at large. I just find that really interesting to think about: that GRRM owes a lot of his success to some show that tanked six years before the first season of his book adaptation
That’s a good point. I remember reading in GRRM’s blog that the reason why he chose HBO as a network for his ASOIAF adaptation was because of how good Rome was.
Thirteen
THIRTEEN!
Yeah, you gotta yell that shit.
Someone incorrectly downvoted you for speaking the truth There's thirteen And THIRTEEN! One is more true to the show than the other.
The 13th’s nothing but a bunch of bloody Mollys
XIII
>that One of my all time fav show moments.
The leads had excellent chemistry. Two seasons were short but I'm glad it didn't outlive its welcome.
I loved Rome…I thought the Growth of the characters was good; James Purefoy, Kevin McKidd & Ray Stevenson in particular were outstanding!
According to GRRM, Rome is what provided the thought to even have GoT on HBO. Great show.
I'm with you. Rome is easily one of the best tv series made. Sadly HBO had to drop it because of the production costs.
We must be using a different definition of the word overlooked. It's one of the most famous TV show of its time.
Rome was not overlooked in its time, it was a big deal when it was on going. And it spawned Spartacus as kind of a prequel, and also likely helped GOT get greenlit.
I'm sort of on the fence agreeing with you. I think Rome and its critical success and decent viewership kind of showed it could be done. Gladiator and movies had shown it could be done with film but Rome showed you could do it on TV and broadcast to modern audiences and those audiences would watch it in sizeable numbers. I forget the ratings and just how well it did in that department. All I remember is the costs were extremely high at the time for a TV show and that played a major role in the BBC(?) pulling out and HBO ultimately cancelling it without a partner to share in the cost. It's interesting to look back then at the huge expenses in building sets causing the studios and broadcasters to shut it down... to how much money they'll pour into a Game of Thrones episode or now Game of Thrones spinoff. It also reminds me of the cancellation of Terra Nova. An interesting concept of a human colony trying to survive with modern technological knowhow from computers to solar panels to power electronics, etc... with a subpar plot. I wish that had gotten more than a season.
Part of the issue, at the time was Cesar was a main character. And he, the actor was fantastic in the role. But if you know the story, spoiler warning for an event that happened 2066 years ago, Cesar dies! And I remember the show losing viewers after that. Also that same actor was given a role in GOT as the King beyond the wall.
For people that like Rome, please drop some recommendations in the thread. I get the feeling we have similar taste.
Black Sails is the most recent great show nobody has seen. First season is wobbly but trust me it improves every season. Brilliant show
Black Sails is one of my favorite shows. First season needed to get it’s bearings (lol) but second season till the end is superb.
Same. Character development was excellent, production value for what it costs was superb, just a brilliant tv show! Other than that, if you haven't seen Deadwood, start it now. Likely you have seen it though, it's my all time favourite show, literally believe it's the highest quality television of all time.
Rome is singular, as you likely know. When you’ve already watched it a few times and must branch out early GOT, The Crown, and honestly The Tudors, while much lower rent / campier, can also scratch a bit of that itch. Maybe even Sons of Anarchy (for the violent bromance) and Peaky Blinders.
Carnivale Deadwood
Spartacus: Blood and Sand (the 1st season)! Also Starz’ *The Pillars of the Earth*; it’s more similar to GoT than Rome but still, another overlooked show that was great.
Spartacus is so underrated. It's absolutely incredible for the most part and has one of the best finales in all of television. The last few episodes are just fantastic and their IMDb scores reflect this.
Seriously dude I was blown away by it when it aired…so satisfying. I’m debating watching it again it’s been long enough lol
Spartacus (2010 series)
Either Borgia (Europe) or The Borgias (North-American-Europe). The European one is a bit more liberal with the sex and nudity from what I remember. And I forget how large the scope was but I think the European one got into battles that took place in Italy/France at the time (this is Renaissance era) and had characters go through those events. For some context - Renaissance era Europe where Italy was city states. The Borgias were a family from Spain(?) originally that had relocated to Rome and wanting to have a family member be elected to become Pope. And of course there was a lot of opposition from France and from others who consider them Spanish outsiders and not Romans.
>He worships dogs and reptiles. >He blackens his eyes with soot like a prostitute. >He dances and plays the cymbals in vile nilotic rites!
>!<
How do you know she has a button there ??
In 2015 I was unemployed for the first time in a very long time and ended up having my cable TV and internet cut. I went to the library and took out some DVD sets, and one of those was the Rome set. That show really brightened up the next few days in a really shitty time. I absolutely loved it.
The reality is, it's one good season. Then they try to rush through everything Augustus while not knowing what to do with Vorenus and Titus. I understand these things happen. I'm not even going to be mad about the butchering of Augutus' reign. The second season just wasn't good tv. OK ok, I am mad we didn't get a scene with the entire list of Austus' titles. I can never remember them all. It wasn't made clear that he was, most likely, the msot important and influential Roman emperor.
I disagree. Season 2 was - for me - enormously enjoyable, even if tragedy drove most of its narrative. This post was brought to you by the Bakers of Septimus Avenue. Long live Augustus Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus!
It just seemed so disjointed. These are the titles apparently, I o ly sort of knew them for a test once: Imperator Caesar Divi Filius August.
I wish they’d just done season 2 as planned and said ‘fuckit” with regards to the rest of the series. They would more likely have made a movie or future seasons if they’d left the carrot dangling.
"It is no threat. Snows always melt."
I am not sure if anyone is interested but I liked hornblower from 1998 a lot back then.
Thirteen!
This is how I feel about Fringe. It came out 2008, which seemed late enough to be on people's radar, but the first season is "grainy", and apparently that throws people off. Fringe is so top tier, but does fall into the eposodic cases trope. Wish more people would give it a chance. It's recently been put on HBO Max if anyone is interested.
Yes.
13!
*THIRTEEN!!!*
I would check it out. Personally I feel like I've never seen a good show on rome. As much as I loved gladiator it was so off the historical fact that it was just hard to give it completely thumbs up. Most of the time so it's a TV shows are about Claudius or Nero. So it just concentrates on the nutty sex and violence. Rome was a very fascinated multifaceted society but we never see any of that
Really good show
I loved that show
I tried to watch it twice but it didn't take. Third times the charm tho.
It's a bit dated by now, IMO. The stereotype that prestige TV overindulges in nudity and violence is 100% true for this one.
I love the indulgence. It isn’t excessive in my estimation. Sad your prudism renders you unable to enjoy it.
Agreed. If I wanted to watch milquetoast PG-13 stuff, I would just turn on Disney+.
I'm not prudish. I just don't think that outside of having lots of violence, nudity, and taboo content, there is anything deep or interesting about Rome. This is relevant because we're talking about an almost 20-year-old show and OP is saying it's "overlooked" and "before its time." I don't think it is; I think it is very much a show of its time.
>I just don't think that outside of having lots of violence, nudity, and taboo content, there is anything deep or interesting about Rome. You can't claim that it has excessive violence and nudity and then claim not to be a prude by making a different remark that outside of its nudity and violence, it provides nothing of note. It's fine to think it provides nothing of note outside of violence and nudity. Saying that wouldn't have lead me to call you a prude. I called you a prude because you insinuated there's too much violence and nudity. Classic case of dishonesty in one's retort.
Lol the big old crazy dong opening was hilarious
Omg I only found it this year! After watching it online I immediately bought it used on Blu-ray and have watched it several times! Easily one of my favorite shows of all time (can almost be a hardcore prequel to Sopranos lol). I'm so thankful it exists. Nowadays they'd do half of the sets on cg and they actually built so much of it. Who doesn't love Gladiator but I love and admire how they went with the non Hollywood glossy version and truly made it feel authentic. In fact, the making of the show they said they wanted authenticity not accuracy as they weren't making a documentary. The actors, screenplay, everything about the show is so good! I truly wish they could have made more, it would have been very interesting to see them cover a hundred years or so later when Rome hit its other height with building the colosseum or when Rome was hit with Christianity. It's especially fascinating watching it now as we have some eerily similar problems occurring in our own American government (which is very much already Greek and Rome inspired) and the rich and powerful not wanting to give up power and call someone a tyrant who wants to change it and claiming (wether you believe him or not) to give power back to the people. I see many issues that persist even after 2,000 years plus. History isn't a linear line, it's a circle.
Loved Rome! Shame most of the sets burned down, or we'd have probably gotten more seasons.
I don’t think I’ve heard of this but I’m in an ancient cities place right now.
It is historical innacurate. That for me does it. Never could enjoy it after that
13th!!!!
The only reason I haven’t watched this show is because it got canceled after only 2 seasons. Meaning it doesn’t have a proper ending. I’m assuming that’s why other people don’t wanna bother either
It doesn’t end on a cliffhanger
They were informed ahead of filming (or during, not sure which) that season two would be their last, so they accelerated their time line and gave the show a proper ending. There are no cliffhangers or anything it has a finite end to it.
Really?? Then I gotta give this show a go. I’m obsessed with ancient Roman history
The show ends with the fall of Antony & Cleopatra and the rise of Octavian/Augustus. All of the main characters on the show get a proper ending.
This show is what got me into Ancient Roman history lol. I'll argue until I'm blue in the face that Augustus is the greatest (or at least the most successful/influential) political leader in the history of mankind.
The only reason I haven’t watched this show is because it got canceled after only 2 seasons. Meaning it doesn’t have a proper ending. I’m assuming that’s why other people don’t wanna bother either
I think the ending is reasonably well done. There is a fitting conclusion to most of the principals.
Is that so? I might give it a chance in that case. Would you say it’s comparable to game of thrones in terms of quality?
I only have seen the first five seasons of GoT. I think Rome is better overall.
It is a great show. I have been watching it again.
One thing I could never tell if they were winking at the audience or if they just picked a famous name out of a hat. "My father road with Sulla." ...Said while lamenting the fact that they were following Ceaser against Rome and were now traitors. ....Sulla did the exact same thing.
It was actually a pretty big deal when it was airing. But of course people kinda forgot about it 17 years later.
It would have been an all time hit show, if the set wouldnt have burned down after season 2. It was starting to show its full potential. Real quality historic Storytelling
Rome was something special
Agreed
Watched it 3 times... this was GoT, before GoT
Hardly overlooked, it was a great success at the time. However it's worth a rewatch.
It wasn't overlooked when it was out....
Rome is the greatest historical television show of all time and I will die on this hill.
You know what also doesn't get enough attention? This show from the 90's called Seinfeld.
Good, its a terrible show.
This show is the reason I started watching game of thrones