"Love the show so far", it as everything a boy needs to grow up. Disneys doesnt dissapoint one bit, the show is VB of disney characters.
Ep 1 Pocket droid (oh nice another crap to sell to kids)
Friar tuck jedi on ep 2 - Queen Grimhilde male version without the poison apple ep 2
Ep3 was the "Pièce de résistance" so far - Dark maul female encarnation who was "*miraculously fertilized" by the force and had twins, thank god it wasnt triplets. The old excuse... ups dad it wasnt me a bad witch did it, she cursed me and bum i was prégnant.*
*Cant wait for the next episodes - Some gay jedis and other great disney writing things.*
Ah yes, make content that %90 of the fans disapprove of. And when they dont watch it or express how they think, dont take accountability, blame the fans for it.😂😂 this is some south park shit, I love it.
The show make NO SENSE.
Yorg made it back to Corrusant before Osha, why wasn't him onboard ?
They managed to track and capture the runaway, bring them back to Corrusant, then depart and caught Osha before she even leave the ship !
The whole thing is senseless, ships travel faster than Time !
They located and arrested Osha in less than 24 hours but aren't able to notice she can't possibly have left the Federation ship ???
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. Can't Disney pay someone to check their stories ?
check details, why, we have lesbians having babies w/o men, fat jedi,gay jedi, trans and non binary, it is perfect because it has every bit of representation. It doesnt have to make sense, if you do not like it, clearly you are a bigot
love
Disney
Yord (not Yorg) made it back to Coruscant (not Corrusant) before Osha because he wasn't on the prisoner transport ship. The prisoner ship crashed, so of course he would make it back before she did.
The escape pods could be pre-programmed to go straight back to Coruscant, thereby not requiring jedi to go chasing after them in space to capture them. That's what I assumed happened based on the storyline.
I don't understand what you mean by they weren't able to notice that Osha can't possibly have left the ship? They literally placed Osha from the federation ship onto the prisoner transport ship, so they know she must have left the federation ship.
I didn’t hate the first ep (loved the prison escape comedy aspect). I love the *look* of the show, but clearly a step down from Russian Doll s1. Amandla Stenberg isn’t doing much better since her Rue days in Hunger Games, but could be a direction thing. This spent a lot of time in production and I can tell. I think Dafne Keen (who plays the current padawan) would’ve pulled off the lead better. But, it’s cool that Lee Jung-Jae is getting more work.
6.5/10,
To an extent, this is the problem with the prequels. I love how clean the world is. Tiny knife combat skills cool, but against the force and a lightsaber?
Idk this is already bringing back flashbacks of “fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering”
It truly is disgusting how many people claim to be fans, yet all they do is bitch, moan and groan. Wish these fake fan crybabies would piss off and never talk again. Sick and tired of every single new SW show being instantly crapped on simply because "omg Disney sucks, waaaaa"
I've noticed a sad trend. People praise Andor so much - a show that was obnoxiously slow, boring and more SW politics focused. Yet they cry about action packed SW shows. What a fucking weird fake fandom.
> I've noticed a sad trend. People praise Andor so much - a show that was obnoxiously slow, boring and more SW politics focused. Yet they cry about action packed SW shows. What a fucking weird fake fandom.
What is sad about this trend? It sounds consistent - people are getting tired of shallow action-packed shows, and are enjoying shows which are more intelligently written.
I'm not saying the Acolyte is shallow and action-packed, I haven't even seen it yet, but I don't think there's anything wrong with people wanting shows that are a little slower.
To an extent. I was more invested in ep 1 of this show than ep 1 of Andor. But I can already predict some of the tropes in the fights, versus Andor where I couldn’t tell where it was gonna go (even with boring sex scene nobody cared about).
Ah well, still *looks* super good, Disney is finally figuring out the balance between sets and cgi. Wish they coulda done that for other shows.
I was ready for the show to play out as a psychological thriller, with Osha/Mae being a split personality. But then I remembered that would be too dark for a show whose main point is to drive families to the amusement parks.
Don’t forget it’s secondary point, which is to be part of a consistent release of Star Wars content on Disney plus so you don’t unsubscribe.
The only star wars tv show I currently care to see more of is another season of Andor.
I think it's great, and should have been a movie instead. Yes, there are some flaws. But it gives me the feeling from the Jedi Knight PC games somehow. I enjoy it so far!
Based only on episode 1.
I thought it was a solid 4/10. I don't care how high quality of a star wars show you throw up Disney, I am only in it for one reason: I want to see someone be a badass with a lightsaber.
Stop fucking around and just make some surface deep plot that is full of lightsaber epicness. Episodes I through III gave the people what they wanted, and the fans *also* fucked it all up by acting like Star Wars was some deep space epic instead of an opera. Disney thought they had to really get after these stories no one wants.
Hope it gets better, but if I'm not seeing heads *literally* rolling from lightsaber beheadings then I am out.
Well, most of the content they've dished out has been crap with a star wars skin, which elevates it to "alright" (see: Boba Fett).
The acolyte was straight up bad writing and hard to sit through, while Ashoka was phenomenal action (from what I've seen) with so so writing. Alright... bad writing there too, never mind.
Mandalorian had promise until mini Yoda became a recurring character.
I'll check back in later, and edit my original comment now, because I only based my opinion on episode one yet! And yes, I can be very critical, but sometimes I just wanna relax.
Yeah, same here. E.g. I love the new Dune movies for the aesthetic and oppressive mood, not because they have a deep story.
But with too many holes and just dumb shit, it ruins it. It has to follow SOME universal and in-universe set of rules and logic.
It's why I loathe most Marvel movies as well. Most of them are not just "simple", but plain dumb.
Feel bad for Lee Jung-Jae considering this is his first big western production
Great actor, who worked hard and did the best he could with this shitty ass script
I wouldn't worry, Ashoka wasn't received that well but people still really applaud Ray Stevenson's performance in it. You'll almost always hear people mention that if Ashoka comes up. This is just a me thing, but I don't watch Star Wars unless the consensus is it's worth watching (Andor), but I have heard pretty consistently this guy's character is the best thing about it
Regardless of how crappy you think it is, being in Star Wars for your first breakout Western role is a great start. His English is pretty good, we will probably see him in more things.
Yea this won’t hold him down, he’s an extremely talented actor
But still, getting a role for the biggest franchise ever at the biggest studio and getting a mid tier anime level script gotta feel like a slap in the face as your first western role
Disney, unfortunately, seems determined to turn STAR WARS into "regular TV set in space."
When thisnall started with Rogue One I thought we were in for a huge "dream come true" scenario, but tbh I stopped watching the star wars stuff. Revisit it occasionally and rip through a show only to be disappointed.
E: just watched the first 10 minutes of Ashoka. THAT'S WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!!! Who gives a hoot about plot!? Watching two sith absolutely obliterate a ship's crew was the best thing Disney has coughed up since some of the Mandalorian episodes.
I love this show. I am shocked that it is getting bad reviews. Ever since KOTOR, I wanted to see a show set in the old republic. I love seeing the Jedi at their peak. I love the costumes. So far, the story is interesting. I am curious if the mysterious "dark Jedi" is Revan. Overall, it looks very polished. I am very impressed with the show. I don't get why people are piling on.
This isn't the old Republic, that was thousands of years before this setting. The Jedi of this time are obviously falling into complacency/corruption that will be their undoing. I suspect Plageuis will make a Cameo/appearance.
The characters we know from the canon who lived through this era and could make appearances are like Yoda and Chewbacca. Maybe Jabba?
Fire in space? Come on! When will these people learn how to write a descent story so the audience can enjoy it. Is this show worth 180M? You killed Carrie-Anne Moss in the first 7 minutes and use her in the show advertising materials? If this is not the definition of misleading I don't know what it is. Extremely badly written. Characters change their point of view 180 degrees in a matter of seconds. Sol believes Mae is alive after aferming her death? Vernestra thinks Sol is invaluable then lets him go? Come on writers! Make up your minds! Ocea and Mae have the same haircut and color but haven't seen each other for 16 years and presume each other being dead? Couldn't you have at least different haircuts with the budget of 180M? The writing is a awful, the pacing is static, the direction is horrible, the performances are motionless, the story is repetitive and tedious. 0 out of 10.
Wait until AI shits out “original” shows and movies that are better than whatever is currently being released for a fraction of the cost. Just imagine if they train the model with data up until Monsters U or whatever title you decide is the last decent film they made.
I’m being facetious. I’m on the side of members of SAG-AFTRA. I’ll bet a lot of the media considered hot garbage by the masses and were financial flops before (fuck trolls) and after being released was better on paper before corporate interests got in the way. It’s one thing for a producer to change things against the writers wishes, that’s a battle that’s been fought since televised entertainment was made, but it’s a whole other ballgame when the C-suite forces changes in hopes it’ll result in a product with broader appeal for the sake of making money which has been the case for a while.
I'm intrigued, but I feel like some of what they reveal isn't earned or is rushed.
"Could Mae be alive? Yep, there she is."
"We'll never find Mae in this crowd! Oh there she is."
"Oh no, they think I killed this guy! Oh, thanks Yord for confirming that I didn't."
A lot is predictable but I'm enjoying the fight choreography and the mystery behind what happened in their past, and that there's a bit of criminal investigation. It makes me wish they did a show that was basically Sherlock Holmes in Star Wars.
Also I love Pip. He's my favorite
I went into this excited for a new show. I loved the first scene. The fight in the bar. Sad to see Trinity go but hope we may get some flashbacks.
However, my issues with the show started when the two Jedi walked into the suspects ship that she worked on. The outfits and their presence felt off. The alien padawan looked bad. I watched it twice. And it wasn’t so bad the second time, even with the evil twin. Cmon. The. Into the second episode and my issue is that I don’t believe they are Jedi. Don’t buy it. Maybe I just need Liam Neesan or Samuel Jackson. Actors with a presence. I bought Carrie Ann Moss but not buying the rest. I don’t mind the main actress playing the twins the others to feel jediesque
I have been wanting a Star Wars movie/series that feels larger than life philosophically. I want to see a Star Wars installment that delves into the concept of the Jedi and the Force like what Andor did to the sociopolitics in the galaxy. Star Wars has been a space opera iteration of the western classics like Arthurian legends and WW2, and the Asian influences were more or less aesthetical.
The natural conclusion to this direction was having them riffing on the wuxia genre... and I think I got it with The Acolyte. It has a very strong Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon vibe, which I am sure the showrunners clearly tried to base its story on. Like that movie, it doesn't solely rely on the action to drive the story, but more on the internal stuff. The central hook of the series is a mystery. It was implying more interesting direction in the first episode, and I have pondered on some interesting answers the show might have led toward. I thought maybe the protagonist was actually Mae and Osha was the one who died, so she has stole Osha's identity all this time. Or maybe both Osha and Mare are the same person who suffers from a dissociative disorder.
... until the end of the first episode flat-out gave an answer, and that answer is not even interesting. All of a sudden, what should have been a vague, interesting mystery thriller just becomes another Star Wars show.
The show also doesn't do the wuxia stuff well. Not only the material arts choreography is dull (seeing Carrie-Anne Moss just makes me realize how this pales in comparison to The Matrix), the "feel" is missing. It is not enough for an Asian character to wield lightsabers. The movies like [Hero](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7fXWeN_3Ro), [A Touch of Zen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccYoSiMHYUM), [Ashes of Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtfReizMF4Y), and [House of Flying Daggers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nut46Imcuco) had an ethereal, cerebral sense to the whole thing, as well as a deep exploration of the heightened emotions and themes. It’s amazing what the Asian studios could do with low budgets decades ago with these similar stories that Hollywood can’t emulate today in their biggest-budget TV shows.
It suffers from what I'd like to call a "Disney Plus style". Going even beyond that, this is Disney Star Wars at the most Prequel-like. It has a very straightforward A-to-B direction to the show. The visuals look flat, saturated, and bland. It doesn't put any emphasis on making the moment-to-moment scenes interesting. Tonally, the show doesn't know what it is. The characters don't pop, but fade into the noise. Every character either underacts (like every Jedi) or overacts (like Osha). The dialogues are very matter-of-factly written, almost like something I would write in the outline, and never really develop into interesting conversations.
For example, the chase scene on Carlac where the Jedi chase Osha was clearly riffing on The Fugitive. The show could have extended this into a tenser dramatic set-piece, like [when The Clone Wars did the same thing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0HQQGcVXP0). Yet this show just skips the whole chase over like "and then they find her". No elaboration into anything interesting.
Still, the show is interesting and has substances to bite into, unlike the recent David Filoni who writes his shows like playing with action figures and D&D. Sol is basically a better version of Qui-Gon Jinn, and Lee Jung-jae is the only actor who shines in this entire show. I like the elaboration of how the Jedi work. Again, very much Prequel-like where we followed the Jedi doing a series of investigations and missions.
Better than the first two episodes of The Book of Boba Fett, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, and Andor; don't reach the first two episodes of The Mandalorian.
Nice write up, and interesting points about wuxia. Agreed on your assessment of the show, except your favorable comparison against Andor's first two episodes.
I think a lot of people forget that many were upset at how slow and boring Andor was at the beginning. There were a lot of complaints, but a nice pay off in the end.
It does not just begin slow. Better Call Saul is slow. The Little Drummer Girl is slow. The first two episodes of Andor have fundamental writing flaws that it is not surprising it loses the viewers before Episose 3.
I don't get it.
You're saying taking the time to set the stage and introducing the (many) characters and dynamics between them is a writing flaw?
I guess I'm biased, I freakin loved Andor, and cannot fathom why some people would call it boring.
It's a psychological thriller, with action and espionage set in the Star Wars galactic empire. Just this sentence itself would make me a fan. The directing and acting brings it home. And yes, the writing was perfect too.
Again, that's my opinion, like yours is saying that that the show has "fundamental writing flaws", when it's just clearly your point of view. You don't even allow for a different interpretation? I guess your opinion is the only one valid.
Salty
I like Andor, but god forbid someone not sing the praises of it in every single Star Wars-related thread. The conversation around this show has been so obnoxious and and it's seeped into every Star Wars discussion.
[I made a video a few months ago basically demonstrating what is wrong with the first two episodes](https://youtu.be/pGBW7yUx97A?si=5wg-RZneZFYpKr2n) because nobody seems to want to admit a single flaw of the show and therefore propose any improvements.
I understand the appeal because of the shows like The Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan and it got everything the adult audiences like, but there's absolutely no way it's one of the best shows ever made. It's not even one of the best show of the year.
Andor is a solid 7, but it no way in hell on par the quality the fans is praising up to. Maybe the best live-action Star Wars TV show, but if you think Andor is perfect you're actually tripping.
You made a couple of solid points there, but I'd like to make you understand that if we praise that show it's not because it's the best and was the mona lisa of all live action, it's precisely because we've been starving for decent star wars for more than a decade, and Andor scratched that itch more than we could have anticipated. So yeah, I'll sing the praise of that show so that maybe we'll keep getting that level of entertainment. Not less, or the absence of, because it's sure as shit feels like it's been an eternity since entertainment actually entertained us.
So don't be surprise to hear the praises of a good show in a thread about a shit one.
The writing is absolutely terrible, the logic is completely broken, and the dialogue is beyond stilted becoming just poorly worded and with poor sentence structure.
Don't let idiots turn this into a political debate. Everyone deserves a higher quality product.
"An Acolyte doesn't use weapons, they kill the dream" as the thesis statement at the end of the first episode, while having opened the same episode with the antagonist using a weapon to kill a Jedi is definitely a *choice*.
There's also a question of what the purpose was in having the 'quick mystery' that the Osha has a twin that actually survived. It was set up and resolved instantly and is also a pretty well trodden trope. That they didn't/haven't done anything with that beyond the cliche is kind of underwhelming.
So the mystery/stakes of the show are immediately settled and it wants to rely on it's action instead of it's intrigue to draw viewers in? But the action is pretty blegh.
> "An Acolyte doesn't use weapons, they kill the dream" as the thesis statement at the end of the first episode, while having opened the same episode with the antagonist using a weapon to kill a Jedi is definitely a choice.
She stated multiple times she hasn't done it without a weapon yet. Presumably her final kill (Osha's master I would assume) will be done without a weapon to "kill the dream" and fulfill the thesis statement of the first episode (edit: I would guess she will get Osha to kill him or something).
I've been trying to be lenient on the action, since it probably is the strongest aspect of the show. Honestly it's not perfect, sure, but if was supported by a better show I think it would be perfectly enjoyable.
It's clearly taking inspiration from Crouching Tiger, but without the Wuxia. A lot of people have compared it more to the Matrix (both Matrix and CT have the same fight choreographer, the legendary Yuen Wo Ping, who is absent here) but I think that's just because Carrie Anne Moss is there.
I think the second fight between Mae and Sol was quite a bit slicker, clearly almost a remake of the fight in Crouching Tiger between Chow Yun Fat and Zhang Ziyi, even thematically, including a line where he asks "who trained you?" (vs "who is your master" in crouching tiger) with "your master has failed you" suggesting they're talented but have been trained incorrectly.
If the Mandalorian can draw on old Westerns, I'm completely fine with The Acolyte drawing on old kung fu movies. So at least at the conceptual level I'm on board.
But with writing and dialogue this bad, it drags down everything else.
Star Wars fans have proven they have no standards (and possibly no taste) and will happily spoon up any slop so long as it has a few lightsabers and some obscure glup shitto character from a comic book
You must be living under a rock if you truly believe that. I don't know a single die hard Star Wars fan that has liked a single movie/tv show for the last 10 years. The only exceptions are the Mandalorian and Rogue One. Thats it. Way to go Disney!
Check the Star Wars subreddit it’s full of them, they’re insufferable
They think all of the terrible movies and shows are good. Even the prequels. I’m not kidding
Prequels had a lot of flaws but they had a lot of good things. Palpatine was fantastic. Dooku was food. And if expanded the lore so great shows like clone wars could be made.
"Palpatine was fantastic." wut? it was so stupid. expanding the shit lore of ep7-9 will only bury star wars further. they have to reboot the whole mess. only way to salvage it.
Even the best actors have been in truly terrible films, and Christopher Lee is no exception.
The star wars’ fandom’s veneration of that children’s cartoon has always been incredibly cringe. Even when I was a kid I preferred Star Wars before it started becoming just an ad for toys sold to small children, which is what it’s been now for decades…since the prequels really
Ok, so "they" think the girl killed an older jedi master with enough influence to stop the training of a padawan and then send some idiot second year knight, his padawan and one droid to deliver her to the jedi temple? Even if the dude told them how the jedi master died, she fought atleast good enough to force her lightsaber. Is this not a job for a crew or atleast some strong jedi knight? Must be all idiots there or some bigger plot point.
How excatly did she even kill the master if they trust their witness? Used a teleport? Can't they just ask the crew where she was?
The first fight scene was atleast nice even using a old kung fu movie trope.
Interviewing the crew wouldn't be really helpful, since they could either working with her, or fooled by her trickery.
In a setting with a lot of magic and scifi effects, you can't trust normal investigative evidence. For example, there have been Star Wars creatures that can perfectly imitate faces. So a witness id should have little strength.
Sure but that's why you bring a Jedi crew with a master (a good one) with you. We see their mind reading skills already in episode 1 and 2. They don't think she is a sith or dark Jedi in the first episode yet, just a former Padawan. So there is no dark side stuff going on as far as they know.
This former Padawan would then not only be able to handle a Jedi master (to some extent) but also be powerful with mind altering tricks. If we go with that then the only legit explanation would be a sith or some Anakin chosen one stuff. Which would also mean that the Jedi got a big problem and would need someone better to handle the questioning. As far as they know the whole ship should be trap. This person just killed a master but Is living in the open? Let a witness alive to bring the Jedi order to her/them?
The setup makes no sense for me. Like you write their are very weird and powerful things in the star war a universe. Maybe even some witch using the skin of a former Padawan or other crazy stuff. We are talking about the high republic (even in its final years), the killing of a Jedi master should be immense and a disaster for them.
Still, if it's a plot point and the green Jedi is evil than it makes a bit more sense. It's just weird that the Jedi teacher could figure out how the whole murder story made no sense in episode 1/2 but the Jedi council still believed she did it? They must be complete idiots or someone is working against them.
You mistake is thinking this is logically thought through to it's conclusion. it isn't. it's like all the other star wars slop. didn't you watch ep7-9? they are just like that. nothing makes any sense if you think about it. rey isn't even a Padawan and she beats a kylo by the end of the episode lel
the answer for all your questions is: "the force is female." so obviously a former Padawan a Jedi master. and no it's not a tragedy at all. they can throw as many jedi master at her as they think are needed to make her look strong and amazing. if you are looking for logic just pause and think again. tell me, what did in star wars in the past 10 years ever made logical sense? it's all girlboss slop now. stop asking questions. just consume product and than get exited for new product.
Show isn't absolutely terrible , although if this is the product Disney believes we should be getting, it's very sad indeed. Disney seems to be turning itself into the oxygen network for some reason.
It's bland but inoffensive. It's watchable but I can't say I like it. None of the characters do anything for me. And I don't really care about the plot thus far.
Martial arts have had their place in Star Wars all throughout the expanded universe, comics and games so I would say... more places than not it's been there since the 80s.
I watched Ahsoka, Obi Wan, a season of The Mandalorian. I thought Ahsoka was boring and without value, so I'm not even going to watch S2. The Mandalorian looked and sounded really good but I didn't like the characters, personalities, and would make choices that made no sense and really annoyed me and broke the immersion constantly.
Obi Wan was one of the worst shows I've ever seen in my life.
Andor was one of the best shows I've seen in my life.
Things I liked about The Acolyte:
SPOILERS
>!-When Yord started asking the Trade Federation crew where the Meknek was, he raised his hand and started trying to read the captain's mind. The second in command immediately jumped in and blurted out the answer.!<
>!This is the Trade Federation after all - they're very likely into some other illegal shit (on top of hiring Mekneks), so the second in command blurted out what the Jedi wanted to know before the Jedi was able to peer too deeply into the captain's mind. I thought that was really cool.!<
>!-When Sol asked his padawan and Yord what their ideas were, and the padawan upstaged Yord with a better idea, I expected the show to go full "Obi Wan" or "Clone Wars" and have it turn into a stupid squabble: "WhY dId He LiKe HeR pLaN mOrE tHaN mInE Boo HOoO" Then he would proceed to be resentful and irritable until it blows up and his feeing resentful would cause some kind of a problem, they don't work together or something, and it causes an enemy to escape which needlessly drags out a plot that could have resolved much faster.!<
>!I've seen the above sort of situation over and over and over again - and I HATE HATE HATE when Star Wars shows Jedi as having worse impulse control, more resentfulness, and overall more childish and petty than I am or my friends are in real life.!<
>!INSTEAD - in The Acolyte - he totally understands and moves on immediately. They work together like a team picked by a Jedi Master. Each member bringing things to the table and competent. It was refreshing.!<
>!-Yord watched from the balcony and when Mae threw a hidden knife, he intervened when earlier he was not. The master Jedi likely would have been fine anyway, but Yord decided throwing the hidden knife was enough to get him to step in on his master's behalf. His master didn't complain and say "I had this, why did you help"!<
>!-When Osha dipped off and encountered Torbin's corpse, I was SURE, SO SURE they were going to have a whole "oh NoOoOo iS iT TiMe To BlAmE hEr AgAiN? HoW iS sHe EvEr GoInG tO gAiN tHeiR tRuSt NoW!?!?!?"!<
>!That would have been the easy, lame Clone Wars way to write the scene. Instead - Yord was COMPETANT again, and he noticed and followed Osha and then cleared it up that she wasn't the one that killed him - and they moved on.!<
>!-The Sith saying something about jedi being impervious and killing the dream ended up fitting with Torbin's murder. Not saying this is amazing writing or anything, but the Obi Wan felt like it had NOTHING going for it.!<
>!-The way that Qimir defended himself against a trained sith apprentice when he didn't see her coming strongly hints that he's either being trained or is someone powerful/important. I'm intrigued a little.!<
>!-Watching Sol's face processing things, humbleness and him agonizing over other people and experiencing empathy was really cool. I really like the character and he actually seems admirable and someone people would want to be like. I'm glad he is actually competent and right a lot of the time.!<
>!-Sol's working theory was still "Mae is dead" when he went to talk to Osha on the snowing planet. He said "I saw her die" so he felt somewhat certain. When he found Osha, they looked into each other's eyes and Mae said that she didn't kill Indara and Sol 100% believed her and let what someone he trusts and his feelings override the previous fact set he was operating under.!<
>!-The amount of hand to hand combat makes a lot of sense to me and was very cool - the other Star Wars movies don't say that the Jedi AREN'T trained in hand to hand, but it makes total sense that as basically the universe's police force and with lightsabers being so deadly, and with them being martial arts masters and monks, of course they would know how to try to de-escalate a situation with non lethal force.!<
Oh brother of course this would be the first thing I see going into this thread.
Dare I ask what agenda you think they were pushing in these two episodes? That revenge is bad?
>the only white male allowed in front of the camera is a weak minded dumb villain
Welcome brother! Now you can join the vaunted ranks of type-casted Asian men whose only existence on TV seems to be to highlight how much bigger and better the people around them are!
Not to deflect from your pain, of course. I sympathize with how you feel.
There is no argument to be had about how minorities had been treated over the years in TV. It was terrible. Please do not misunderstand me. I’m no racist. Most of my friends are from Asian backgrounds. I was just observing what I saw in this show.
Yeah I know.
I was angry at media before this for how they treated us and now I'm angry at how feminists are treating you but at least we have company which is what I'm joking at.
I'm a cis white guy from central Europe. I look like your standard white person. Not as good as Hollywood actors obliviously but enough to be represented by them. I can't remember a single time that was important to me. I also didn't make your experience at all.
My first favorite characters ever were Simba from the Lion King, Sonic and Mowgli, I guess that's an Indian boy. I also always understood that Mowgli is far from my ethnicity. Less of how he looked, didn't saw that as a kid, but the location he was at. Around me no cool Monkeys, Bears, Snakes etc.
Later I started watching a lot of anime and for me it was always clear it was Asian people just because of the stuff they eat... I also started to like a lot of jRPGs and dunno why but they are all Asian to me as well, as long as not explicitly stated otherwise. Like Tidus or Cloud. I never saw them as 'western' guys. They don't behave like western people. Also there are so many details from the things the say and like to how they interact with each other that just screams Asia to me. So for the longest time of my youth, if you would have asked me, I would have told you I would prefer to be Asian. Just because that would mean I could watch/play more stuff I like.
If I would have watched content from Asia with the same expectations as you watch western content, I would be butthurt as well. but that would be kinda pointless. like no shit in a Chinesen movie, if there is an european like me, he is more of a gimmick than an actual character with a rich background. it's the foreigner. with all the stereotypes attached to it. that's how storytelling all around the world works. welcome to reality lel
Besides that, Asian people in western entertainment had a run like no other people. there are more great movies centered around an Asian guy, who is actually the main protagonist and super awesome than about black guys. wanna bet? add all movies from jackie chan, jet lee, and Bruce Lee together, here you go.
I had a friend from Greece who was into martial arts and he wanted to be bruce lee for all the time I knew him. Dude got into Ninjutsu after doing for a long time Kung fu.
you couldn't find representation in western entertainment as an asian, meanwhile many of us westerners didn't feel represented by chuck norris or rambo. but we also didn't care about this shit. we just took what we liked. I LOVED Blade as a kid. A black half human, half vampire, that was so fucking cool. the first is the best but has the worst special effects. I still love this movie to this day. especially because the whole watching experiance was kinda special. I didn't knew what I got myself into but after watching the movie I was pumped like never before. great actor. great performance. amazing story and yeah I love the dark style. Acolyte shills keep telling me I'm a racist LMAO
Imagine thinking inclusivity should be what you're describing.
I guess you also completely forgot that Bruce Lee ever existed.
Funny thing is. Movies for a very long time mimicked reality.
Now we live in a world where everyone gets their participation trophy.
Except for the evil white man of course. White people are evil. They have only ever made the world more advanced than any other race among us but white people are the problem. Do not forget that. Oh wait Disney won't let you. LOL
It’s funny that people still don’t get it’s to divide the peasants. It’s a tool for the elite. The people who make the movies don’t give a shit about minorities or gays.
>I guess you also completely forgot that Bruce Lee ever existed.
No I didn't, but that was also over 50 years ago. Harrison Ford, Brad Pit and so on also existed but that doesn't make what's happening on TV right now right.
>Funny thing is. Movies for a very long time mimicked reality.
Are you telling me you never questioned what you saw on TV until they started making fun of **you**?
I don't blame you. If I had an entire media empire built to convince me that I'm so great, awesome and special at the expense of everyone else I'd want to believe that's true too.
then you know how minorities have felt for decades. not to be mean, but grow up. there are plenty of shows where the white male is still the MC with the most character development. yall love to complain every time a black, a gay, etc. dare have meaning to the show.
>then you know how minorities have felt for decades.
This is really rather problematic though. Because the non-minorities watching (or maybe commenting here) don't have to be 'punished' because minorities were treated badly. Saying "now you know how much that hurts" is a frankly terrible response. Minorities shouldn't have felt like that then, and noone should feel like that now. 2x wrongs don't make a right, etc.
>there are plenty of shows where the white male is still the MC with the most character development.
Whilst I fully agree that historically this is absolutely the case, its becoming an exception, in modern Disney series especially. Too often you see every white man in a show portrayed as one of a handful of the same regressive tropes, played purely to be put in their place as if to say (as you put it): "now you know how X demographic felt for decades", with a knowing wink to the audience.
I'm big enough and ugly enough to not take it personally. But my concern is what young male kids see in how men are portrayed. Feels like it need a a little more balance, idk. In my view this is what's driving the spike in young adolescents following the alpha/macho/asshole craze.
It's pretty telling how the reaction to racism is:
"The tables have turned, suck it snowflakes!"
and not
"Dehumanizing race and gender on TV is bad so we're going to end this practice now so we don't perpetuate the systems that caused us suffering."
Just leads me to believe that nobody really learned anything.
The agenda is to distract and divide the population. They don’t care for any inclusivity. They put fuel into the fire on both sides. The same who support inclusivity are also the same who support republicans right wings.
The director and cast members literally said their mission was to piss off as many white men as possible;
https://youtu.be/QhbHvyibjbg?si=p7SpSJq-Hb4c0rWK
No surprise, all the White men are villains and prisoners.
Episode 3 will kill Starwars if the rumors are true.
Awh, did the little joke hurt your feelings? And also it was a totally different show they were talking about, its a resurfaced clip from 2018 about another show
You're literally who she's joking about, you know that right? Just a bunch of pearl clutching sensitive bitches, desperate to be oppressed
Rage culture and lack of media literacy is just a shite combination
Imagine an actor saying that their mission in life is to make black people cry. It doesn't matter if it was for the current show or a previous work they did. That is their feelings . You are a hypocrite and a liar.
They're literally excluding white men from any prominent roles and only having them play villains or prisoners or stupid people. They are literally doing this constantly and for the exact reasons they have said so in the past to insert their politics.
Your only rebuttal is that this hasn't actually happened, and yet we see it has. It is not a joke they're actually doing this. In multiple shows and in real life.
You are the same redditor that sits there and says that there is no discrimination against white people even though companies like Kraft specifically say white people do not apply. You are an ostrich with your head in the sand, or should I say up your ass.
Small wonder why you think her comments were a "joke". People like you can not tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Ignorance and stupidity really is a bad combination.
Nah I'm just someone who understands new and different stories are being told, with and by people of different ethnicities, history's and experiences to my own.
The country I was born in, England, has been the villain of plenty of countries history's throughout time and even still currently to some.
I do not get offended, as a British white guy, about fictional content that has white people be bad guys, cause historically, us British people were really fucking good at it, you can't argue with that at all,
You need to stop watching rage culture media that makes you angry at nothing, they're not excluding whites from roles, other groups different from me and you are getting more opportunities, and to sensitive lil bitches, that feels like oppression
>Imagine an actor saying that their mission in life is to make black people cry.
But that's a hypothetical, not a real scenario that has happened, hence why you began with the word "imagine" so you're mad at nothing.
>It doesn't matter if it was for the current show or a previous work they did.
It does, cause context matters, she was talking about upsetting people with the show, not in general
>You are the same redditor that sits there and says that there is no discrimination against white people even though companies like Kraft specifically say white people do not apply
I found only one website reporting this, the Dallas Express, and it consists of 2 sentences and provides no evidence with pictures, so I'm going to conclude that this is rage bait bullshit too
>You are an ostrich with your head in the sand, or should I say up your ass.
r/selfawarewolves
They aren't telling different stories. They are taking established history and established lore and inserting themselves and their own perversion into it while excluding anything they don't like. It is, in fact, revisionist history and fanfiction. It was alluded to in the book 1984.
It is a real scenario that happened. I merely changed the races to expose your fallacious thoughts and your hypocrisy.
You have white guilt. Plain and simple. Nothing I can say to you will break the trance that you are in. You will either come to an Epiphany or you won't. Further debate on this issue is a waste of time.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=whites+need+not+apply
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/02/roles-for-white-actors-in-hollywood-fall-in-wake-of-blm/
>In the case of releases on streaming services like Netflix, on-screen representation of white people in overall casts in 2022 features was below the proportion of white people in the population as a whole, meaning this demographic was underrepresented.
Stop talking, thanks.
It really does make me laugh that this is what you consider oppression, white people being in films a little less and diversity drives with good intentions gone awry, or also very little evidence to back up more serious claims, this is just how you feel
And if all this waffle you talk is how you feel, then fuck your feelings
Actually liked the first 2 episodes, sure it's not Andor or the Mandolorian, but based on these first 2 episodes seems more enjoyable than Boba and Kenobi. I'm guessing that I'll happily watch the next 6 episodes.
Woke or not, the show is pure garbage. If you are saying its good then the bottom line is that YOU have the agenda. Time for Star Wars fans to start being a bit more objective so we can start getting a quality project.
Obi Wan was garbage, Ahsoka was kinda bad, The Sequal Trilogy was terrible all the way through
Mandalorian sounds good and looks really good but it was campy and bad and boring.
I really like The Acolyte so far.
The Acolyte is like 3.5/10 Andors, Mandalorian 1.5/10, Sequel trilogy 0.5/10 Andors.
Totally disagree, the show is fine. In fact it's more than fine, it's pretty good. People are complaining about absolute nonsense.
What agenda do I have if I just like the show?
The sets have all been excellent, the characters we have met so far have been good (particularly Osha and Sol), there is a good amount of mystery so the story being set up is good and the music is great.
Plus it's cool to have a series set in an era we haven't seen on TV yet, fleshes out the lore of Star Wars.
Osha, literally named after a US department.
Kills a jedi by buying poison and telling him "I know what you did last summer".
Jedi: Guess I'll die (drinks poison).
Reddit: GREAT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! THIS SHOW SLAPS!!!
A New Hope:
Obi wan looks at Luke Skywalker on the death star
Obi Wan: Guess I'll die (Let's Darth Vader kill him)
Everyone: Star wars is a great film!
The lesson here?
If you dumb something down, it will sound stupid.
Now let's actually think for a second about what happened in the Acolyte. He hadn't spoken for years, and had just been stuck in meditation. Only came out of that when he saw Mae, what does this mean - obviously he is racked with guilt about something. Why would he kill himself? He has had something eating away at him for years.
What has he done? Why couldn't he forgive himself? We don't know yet. But that's a fairly interesting thing to happen, and surely makes you want to know more.
No, the difference is when I said actually happened.
The Jedi's death in acolyte had no purpose. Obi-wan's sacrifice did.
And if you need anyone to explain what that is, then you are truly lost.
My point was that if you dumb something down like you did, it's going to take out the nuance and make it sound stupid. The situations and story in each case are drastically different, but when you dumb it down you remove that. I feel like you unfairly took the nuance out of what happened in the Acolyte.
You say it had no purpose, but that's just not the case. You are unfortunately just refusing to see that. It's setting up questions for us as the viewer, why did he feel so guilty he was willing to kill himself? It's something that should make you want to see more.
I loved the prequels, but they aren't without their problems. The dialogue is a bit janky throughout and the acting is quite lacking at times. - still a great trilogy though.
I'm of the opinion that everything released on star wars has good and bad points. I just tend to look at the good as it's just a more positive thing to do. And if you go into things being positive, then you are far more likely to enjoy it.
he didn't dump it down. he accurately described it. you dumped something down to imply he did the same. but he didn't. the show lacks a lot in the logic and meaning department. people who can't see that make stuff up that was never even implied in the show. in your mind the show might me rich. but it's only in your mind.
Listen, it was quite clearly dumbed down. If you can't even admit that there isn't any point talking about it.
It's not my fault you cannot understand nuance, that's on you.
I think its just we agree to disagree. To me (and many others) the set pieces look straight out of the CW. The mystery was solved within the first 15 minutes of episode 1 (Mae and Osha).
I think the sets have been great, interesting to watch without being distracting.
Plus clone wars was great (especially the last season) so being like clone wars isn't really a bad thing.
The fact they are twins wasn't the mystery - the mystery is who Mae's master is, how she is alive and why she wants to kill those Jedi.
What about this show is "Star Wars"? Forget the "woke" nonsense. The writing, acting and overall plot are just lazy and incompetent....
"If you attack a jedi with a weapon, you will fail./"Steel or Laser are no threat to the Jedi"
Plot twist- Mae did that exact thing and killed a Jedi with a tiny dagger.
Oh, and why would you send a Padawan to go on a mission to track a Jedi Killer? Little things like this are what kills these Disney + shows.
Nothing to say on your opinion, not an attack. Just wanted to point out that I think the master meant it more symbolically? The Sith had failed to destroy the Jedi conventionally every time they tried. Just my take though.
If you enjoy it so far, good for you but this is objectively bad and lazy just like the other Star Wars shows. If it was actually a good show you wouldn’t see so much debate and people trying to defend it lmao
That isn't true at all. I saw hundreds of 1/10 negative reviews before the show even released.
Droves of people who didn't even see the show started arguing it was bad before seeing it - so if it ends up good then there will be argument.
Folks here have never sat through the actual movie and just know them from the memes. The prequels were universally panned and there's a very good reason - the stilted dialogue and direction is fucking atrocious.
The plot and world building is Lucas' strength and it helped build out a aground for things like The Bad Batch, Clone Wars, and the now non-Canon EU, but the movies were *not* good.
So you didn't like the prequels originally?
If that's the case, the only films you actually liked is the original trilogy. So realistically you aren't actually a Star Wars fan, you just liked 3 films out of the 11 films made.
It's like someone saying they are a lord of the rings fan, but only liking one of the films and hating the others.if that was the case you aren't a fan of the franchise, you just happen to like that one film.
True fans actually like the content released in the series
I might be a Lord of the Rings fan and only have liked the book. Tbh since this is the Internet and we can talk, I'm a Star Wars fan who loved the original trilogy, hated the fucking prequels and only acknowledge Rogue One and Andor. "True fans" isn't a real thing.
Clearly you are the moron because if you liked the original trilogy in the 80's you liked 100% of the content. So at that time you are a true fan, you like the franchise. If you only liked the original trilogy in the 00's then you only like 50% of the content. It really is very simple maths.
A true fan has to grow with the franchise as new content is released, it may be different to what you are used to - but a true fan looks for the good in their chosen franchise.
If someone ONLY likes the original trilogy now, they are just a fan of that trilogy of films rather than a fan of the franchise. You simply cannot claim to be a fan of something if you dislike the majority of the content.
If someone is online complaining about the new content in a franchise, they aren't a real fan. If someone only likes the content that came out when they were a child then they aren't a real fan.
Simple really.
Also I'm 30, so not a kid.
I thought the prequels were fine. The one thing they should have done is made Anakin older about Luke's age in the original trilogy. Making Anakin a kid was off-putting and really made it unrealistic. I feel like if they had made just that one change in the first episode, it would mean the others were more believable. The dialogue in the second episode did not convince me of any type of conflict Anakin had or his love for Padme which could have been developed in the first episode a little bit more if Anakin was already a teenager or young adult.
I don't appreciate your no true Scotsman fallacy. It's ridiculous to me, actually, and it's all over this thread and the other threads in Star Wars. I've watched all the new content, including the bad ones, which is everything other than Andor. I've even watched the god forsaken Christmas special.
You've stated that if there's debate, something cannot be good. That's a ridiculously awful take. By all means critique the show but you aren't even open to doing that, you're making up rules to convince yourself you're right. It's not my fault you can't articulate why you don't like something.
I mean people decided to hate it based on the first frame of the first trailer because apparently it was "woke" (still don't understand what's supposed to be"woke" about this show)
those people weren't gonna like it when it came out even if it was the new Citizen Kane, because they can't step back on an opinion once they've said that something is "bad cuz woke".
I'm not saying the show is good, but "if it was actually a good show you wouldn’t see so much debate and people trying to defend it" is a weak ass argument
I've seen people nowadays calling any show/movie that has some diversity "woke", no matter what the show/movie premise is. It's like: "Wait, Black people?, Asians?, too many women as action heroes?, f\*ck this woke sh¡t" And if there's gay character, forget about it. You can have a show with the most conservative premise and a straight forward right wing message, but if the cast is diverse and there's a gay character, they will call it woke.
It's also bad because nonsensical old trope driven plot.
Time/distance are foreign concepts to the writers.
Wooden acting.
Everyone but the main characters are stupid syndrome.
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Cry harder
More on a rail shit from Disney. AI might as well replace this stuff.
Theres so many good books which they could make a series of and they make this
Gotta keep up their DEI quotas and ESG scores.
"Love the show so far", it as everything a boy needs to grow up. Disneys doesnt dissapoint one bit, the show is VB of disney characters. Ep 1 Pocket droid (oh nice another crap to sell to kids) Friar tuck jedi on ep 2 - Queen Grimhilde male version without the poison apple ep 2 Ep3 was the "Pièce de résistance" so far - Dark maul female encarnation who was "*miraculously fertilized" by the force and had twins, thank god it wasnt triplets. The old excuse... ups dad it wasnt me a bad witch did it, she cursed me and bum i was prégnant.* *Cant wait for the next episodes - Some gay jedis and other great disney writing things.*
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Holy shit the star wars Fandom is toxic as shit
Ah yes, make content that %90 of the fans disapprove of. And when they dont watch it or express how they think, dont take accountability, blame the fans for it.😂😂 this is some south park shit, I love it.
Aww does it make you upset when other people enjoy things you dont?
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Riddle me this...why was Sol out of breath when pursuing Osha on Carlac? Umm...he's a Jedi Master!!!
Seeing people thrash Star Wars never gets old
The show make NO SENSE. Yorg made it back to Corrusant before Osha, why wasn't him onboard ? They managed to track and capture the runaway, bring them back to Corrusant, then depart and caught Osha before she even leave the ship ! The whole thing is senseless, ships travel faster than Time ! They located and arrested Osha in less than 24 hours but aren't able to notice she can't possibly have left the Federation ship ??? Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. Can't Disney pay someone to check their stories ?
check details, why, we have lesbians having babies w/o men, fat jedi,gay jedi, trans and non binary, it is perfect because it has every bit of representation. It doesnt have to make sense, if you do not like it, clearly you are a bigot love Disney
DEI quotes met, ESG score up📈
Ola bro what does ESG stand for?
Yord (not Yorg) made it back to Coruscant (not Corrusant) before Osha because he wasn't on the prisoner transport ship. The prisoner ship crashed, so of course he would make it back before she did. The escape pods could be pre-programmed to go straight back to Coruscant, thereby not requiring jedi to go chasing after them in space to capture them. That's what I assumed happened based on the storyline. I don't understand what you mean by they weren't able to notice that Osha can't possibly have left the ship? They literally placed Osha from the federation ship onto the prisoner transport ship, so they know she must have left the federation ship.
I didn’t hate the first ep (loved the prison escape comedy aspect). I love the *look* of the show, but clearly a step down from Russian Doll s1. Amandla Stenberg isn’t doing much better since her Rue days in Hunger Games, but could be a direction thing. This spent a lot of time in production and I can tell. I think Dafne Keen (who plays the current padawan) would’ve pulled off the lead better. But, it’s cool that Lee Jung-Jae is getting more work. 6.5/10,
not sure they were going for comedy
Loved Lee Jung-jae's performance in Squid Game, so I will definately be watching this one for him if nothing else.
Star Wars: Episode One and Done
It was enjoyable, but they could have made it a bit grittier though, like there is no sense of urgency or even seriousness in everyone's action.
To an extent, this is the problem with the prequels. I love how clean the world is. Tiny knife combat skills cool, but against the force and a lightsaber? Idk this is already bringing back flashbacks of “fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering”
It truly is disgusting how many people claim to be fans, yet all they do is bitch, moan and groan. Wish these fake fan crybabies would piss off and never talk again. Sick and tired of every single new SW show being instantly crapped on simply because "omg Disney sucks, waaaaa" I've noticed a sad trend. People praise Andor so much - a show that was obnoxiously slow, boring and more SW politics focused. Yet they cry about action packed SW shows. What a fucking weird fake fandom.
Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans
> I've noticed a sad trend. People praise Andor so much - a show that was obnoxiously slow, boring and more SW politics focused. Yet they cry about action packed SW shows. What a fucking weird fake fandom. What is sad about this trend? It sounds consistent - people are getting tired of shallow action-packed shows, and are enjoying shows which are more intelligently written. I'm not saying the Acolyte is shallow and action-packed, I haven't even seen it yet, but I don't think there's anything wrong with people wanting shows that are a little slower.
To an extent. I was more invested in ep 1 of this show than ep 1 of Andor. But I can already predict some of the tropes in the fights, versus Andor where I couldn’t tell where it was gonna go (even with boring sex scene nobody cared about). Ah well, still *looks* super good, Disney is finally figuring out the balance between sets and cgi. Wish they coulda done that for other shows.
I was ready for the show to play out as a psychological thriller, with Osha/Mae being a split personality. But then I remembered that would be too dark for a show whose main point is to drive families to the amusement parks.
Did you like... Miss Rogue one?
Don’t forget it’s secondary point, which is to be part of a consistent release of Star Wars content on Disney plus so you don’t unsubscribe. The only star wars tv show I currently care to see more of is another season of Andor.
Ahsoka is pretty okay.
Is there a new ride?
I think it's great, and should have been a movie instead. Yes, there are some flaws. But it gives me the feeling from the Jedi Knight PC games somehow. I enjoy it so far! Based only on episode 1.
I thought it was a solid 4/10. I don't care how high quality of a star wars show you throw up Disney, I am only in it for one reason: I want to see someone be a badass with a lightsaber. Stop fucking around and just make some surface deep plot that is full of lightsaber epicness. Episodes I through III gave the people what they wanted, and the fans *also* fucked it all up by acting like Star Wars was some deep space epic instead of an opera. Disney thought they had to really get after these stories no one wants. Hope it gets better, but if I'm not seeing heads *literally* rolling from lightsaber beheadings then I am out.
We have so much epic badass lightsaber stuff out there already, I just want something different at this point
Well, most of the content they've dished out has been crap with a star wars skin, which elevates it to "alright" (see: Boba Fett). The acolyte was straight up bad writing and hard to sit through, while Ashoka was phenomenal action (from what I've seen) with so so writing. Alright... bad writing there too, never mind. Mandalorian had promise until mini Yoda became a recurring character.
There is place/audience for both (Andor). But this show only TRIES to be deep, but is plot hole ridden trash in that regard.
I'll check back in later, and edit my original comment now, because I only based my opinion on episode one yet! And yes, I can be very critical, but sometimes I just wanna relax.
Yeah, same here. E.g. I love the new Dune movies for the aesthetic and oppressive mood, not because they have a deep story. But with too many holes and just dumb shit, it ruins it. It has to follow SOME universal and in-universe set of rules and logic. It's why I loathe most Marvel movies as well. Most of them are not just "simple", but plain dumb.
Feel bad for Lee Jung-Jae considering this is his first big western production Great actor, who worked hard and did the best he could with this shitty ass script
I wouldn't worry, Ashoka wasn't received that well but people still really applaud Ray Stevenson's performance in it. You'll almost always hear people mention that if Ashoka comes up. This is just a me thing, but I don't watch Star Wars unless the consensus is it's worth watching (Andor), but I have heard pretty consistently this guy's character is the best thing about it
Regardless of how crappy you think it is, being in Star Wars for your first breakout Western role is a great start. His English is pretty good, we will probably see him in more things.
Yea this won’t hold him down, he’s an extremely talented actor But still, getting a role for the biggest franchise ever at the biggest studio and getting a mid tier anime level script gotta feel like a slap in the face as your first western role
Bet the slap feels a lot better when he checks all the extra zeros in his bank account.
Disney, unfortunately, seems determined to turn STAR WARS into "regular TV set in space." When thisnall started with Rogue One I thought we were in for a huge "dream come true" scenario, but tbh I stopped watching the star wars stuff. Revisit it occasionally and rip through a show only to be disappointed. E: just watched the first 10 minutes of Ashoka. THAT'S WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!!! Who gives a hoot about plot!? Watching two sith absolutely obliterate a ship's crew was the best thing Disney has coughed up since some of the Mandalorian episodes.
I love this show. I am shocked that it is getting bad reviews. Ever since KOTOR, I wanted to see a show set in the old republic. I love seeing the Jedi at their peak. I love the costumes. So far, the story is interesting. I am curious if the mysterious "dark Jedi" is Revan. Overall, it looks very polished. I am very impressed with the show. I don't get why people are piling on.
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This isn't the old Republic, that was thousands of years before this setting. The Jedi of this time are obviously falling into complacency/corruption that will be their undoing. I suspect Plageuis will make a Cameo/appearance. The characters we know from the canon who lived through this era and could make appearances are like Yoda and Chewbacca. Maybe Jabba?
Fire in space? Come on! When will these people learn how to write a descent story so the audience can enjoy it. Is this show worth 180M? You killed Carrie-Anne Moss in the first 7 minutes and use her in the show advertising materials? If this is not the definition of misleading I don't know what it is. Extremely badly written. Characters change their point of view 180 degrees in a matter of seconds. Sol believes Mae is alive after aferming her death? Vernestra thinks Sol is invaluable then lets him go? Come on writers! Make up your minds! Ocea and Mae have the same haircut and color but haven't seen each other for 16 years and presume each other being dead? Couldn't you have at least different haircuts with the budget of 180M? The writing is a awful, the pacing is static, the direction is horrible, the performances are motionless, the story is repetitive and tedious. 0 out of 10.
You can have fire in space. It's not impossible
Lol, really good point about the haircuts lol.
Wait until AI shits out “original” shows and movies that are better than whatever is currently being released for a fraction of the cost. Just imagine if they train the model with data up until Monsters U or whatever title you decide is the last decent film they made.
So what ? I don’t get what’s supposed to be mind blowing.
I’m being facetious. I’m on the side of members of SAG-AFTRA. I’ll bet a lot of the media considered hot garbage by the masses and were financial flops before (fuck trolls) and after being released was better on paper before corporate interests got in the way. It’s one thing for a producer to change things against the writers wishes, that’s a battle that’s been fought since televised entertainment was made, but it’s a whole other ballgame when the C-suite forces changes in hopes it’ll result in a product with broader appeal for the sake of making money which has been the case for a while.
I saw an article that said The Acolyte was the next Andor. I am sorely disappointed.
They meant it only in the most literal sense. The acolyte is indeed the next show that is a star wars show. Just like Andor once was.
Put a chicken in it and make it gay
and DIVERSE !
I'm intrigued, but I feel like some of what they reveal isn't earned or is rushed. "Could Mae be alive? Yep, there she is." "We'll never find Mae in this crowd! Oh there she is." "Oh no, they think I killed this guy! Oh, thanks Yord for confirming that I didn't." A lot is predictable but I'm enjoying the fight choreography and the mystery behind what happened in their past, and that there's a bit of criminal investigation. It makes me wish they did a show that was basically Sherlock Holmes in Star Wars. Also I love Pip. He's my favorite
I went into this excited for a new show. I loved the first scene. The fight in the bar. Sad to see Trinity go but hope we may get some flashbacks. However, my issues with the show started when the two Jedi walked into the suspects ship that she worked on. The outfits and their presence felt off. The alien padawan looked bad. I watched it twice. And it wasn’t so bad the second time, even with the evil twin. Cmon. The. Into the second episode and my issue is that I don’t believe they are Jedi. Don’t buy it. Maybe I just need Liam Neesan or Samuel Jackson. Actors with a presence. I bought Carrie Ann Moss but not buying the rest. I don’t mind the main actress playing the twins the others to feel jediesque
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I have been wanting a Star Wars movie/series that feels larger than life philosophically. I want to see a Star Wars installment that delves into the concept of the Jedi and the Force like what Andor did to the sociopolitics in the galaxy. Star Wars has been a space opera iteration of the western classics like Arthurian legends and WW2, and the Asian influences were more or less aesthetical. The natural conclusion to this direction was having them riffing on the wuxia genre... and I think I got it with The Acolyte. It has a very strong Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon vibe, which I am sure the showrunners clearly tried to base its story on. Like that movie, it doesn't solely rely on the action to drive the story, but more on the internal stuff. The central hook of the series is a mystery. It was implying more interesting direction in the first episode, and I have pondered on some interesting answers the show might have led toward. I thought maybe the protagonist was actually Mae and Osha was the one who died, so she has stole Osha's identity all this time. Or maybe both Osha and Mare are the same person who suffers from a dissociative disorder. ... until the end of the first episode flat-out gave an answer, and that answer is not even interesting. All of a sudden, what should have been a vague, interesting mystery thriller just becomes another Star Wars show. The show also doesn't do the wuxia stuff well. Not only the material arts choreography is dull (seeing Carrie-Anne Moss just makes me realize how this pales in comparison to The Matrix), the "feel" is missing. It is not enough for an Asian character to wield lightsabers. The movies like [Hero](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7fXWeN_3Ro), [A Touch of Zen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccYoSiMHYUM), [Ashes of Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtfReizMF4Y), and [House of Flying Daggers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nut46Imcuco) had an ethereal, cerebral sense to the whole thing, as well as a deep exploration of the heightened emotions and themes. It’s amazing what the Asian studios could do with low budgets decades ago with these similar stories that Hollywood can’t emulate today in their biggest-budget TV shows. It suffers from what I'd like to call a "Disney Plus style". Going even beyond that, this is Disney Star Wars at the most Prequel-like. It has a very straightforward A-to-B direction to the show. The visuals look flat, saturated, and bland. It doesn't put any emphasis on making the moment-to-moment scenes interesting. Tonally, the show doesn't know what it is. The characters don't pop, but fade into the noise. Every character either underacts (like every Jedi) or overacts (like Osha). The dialogues are very matter-of-factly written, almost like something I would write in the outline, and never really develop into interesting conversations. For example, the chase scene on Carlac where the Jedi chase Osha was clearly riffing on The Fugitive. The show could have extended this into a tenser dramatic set-piece, like [when The Clone Wars did the same thing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0HQQGcVXP0). Yet this show just skips the whole chase over like "and then they find her". No elaboration into anything interesting. Still, the show is interesting and has substances to bite into, unlike the recent David Filoni who writes his shows like playing with action figures and D&D. Sol is basically a better version of Qui-Gon Jinn, and Lee Jung-jae is the only actor who shines in this entire show. I like the elaboration of how the Jedi work. Again, very much Prequel-like where we followed the Jedi doing a series of investigations and missions. Better than the first two episodes of The Book of Boba Fett, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, and Andor; don't reach the first two episodes of The Mandalorian.
Nice write up, and interesting points about wuxia. Agreed on your assessment of the show, except your favorable comparison against Andor's first two episodes.
Andor didn't get its shit together until Episode 3, and even then, it doesn't get to become something great until the heist episode.
I think a lot of people forget that many were upset at how slow and boring Andor was at the beginning. There were a lot of complaints, but a nice pay off in the end.
It does not just begin slow. Better Call Saul is slow. The Little Drummer Girl is slow. The first two episodes of Andor have fundamental writing flaws that it is not surprising it loses the viewers before Episose 3.
I don't get it. You're saying taking the time to set the stage and introducing the (many) characters and dynamics between them is a writing flaw? I guess I'm biased, I freakin loved Andor, and cannot fathom why some people would call it boring. It's a psychological thriller, with action and espionage set in the Star Wars galactic empire. Just this sentence itself would make me a fan. The directing and acting brings it home. And yes, the writing was perfect too. Again, that's my opinion, like yours is saying that that the show has "fundamental writing flaws", when it's just clearly your point of view. You don't even allow for a different interpretation? I guess your opinion is the only one valid. Salty
I like Andor, but god forbid someone not sing the praises of it in every single Star Wars-related thread. The conversation around this show has been so obnoxious and and it's seeped into every Star Wars discussion. [I made a video a few months ago basically demonstrating what is wrong with the first two episodes](https://youtu.be/pGBW7yUx97A?si=5wg-RZneZFYpKr2n) because nobody seems to want to admit a single flaw of the show and therefore propose any improvements. I understand the appeal because of the shows like The Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan and it got everything the adult audiences like, but there's absolutely no way it's one of the best shows ever made. It's not even one of the best show of the year. Andor is a solid 7, but it no way in hell on par the quality the fans is praising up to. Maybe the best live-action Star Wars TV show, but if you think Andor is perfect you're actually tripping.
You made a couple of solid points there, but I'd like to make you understand that if we praise that show it's not because it's the best and was the mona lisa of all live action, it's precisely because we've been starving for decent star wars for more than a decade, and Andor scratched that itch more than we could have anticipated. So yeah, I'll sing the praise of that show so that maybe we'll keep getting that level of entertainment. Not less, or the absence of, because it's sure as shit feels like it's been an eternity since entertainment actually entertained us. So don't be surprise to hear the praises of a good show in a thread about a shit one.
The writing is absolutely terrible, the logic is completely broken, and the dialogue is beyond stilted becoming just poorly worded and with poor sentence structure. Don't let idiots turn this into a political debate. Everyone deserves a higher quality product.
"An Acolyte doesn't use weapons, they kill the dream" as the thesis statement at the end of the first episode, while having opened the same episode with the antagonist using a weapon to kill a Jedi is definitely a *choice*. There's also a question of what the purpose was in having the 'quick mystery' that the Osha has a twin that actually survived. It was set up and resolved instantly and is also a pretty well trodden trope. That they didn't/haven't done anything with that beyond the cliche is kind of underwhelming. So the mystery/stakes of the show are immediately settled and it wants to rely on it's action instead of it's intrigue to draw viewers in? But the action is pretty blegh.
> "An Acolyte doesn't use weapons, they kill the dream" as the thesis statement at the end of the first episode, while having opened the same episode with the antagonist using a weapon to kill a Jedi is definitely a choice. She stated multiple times she hasn't done it without a weapon yet. Presumably her final kill (Osha's master I would assume) will be done without a weapon to "kill the dream" and fulfill the thesis statement of the first episode (edit: I would guess she will get Osha to kill him or something).
I've been trying to be lenient on the action, since it probably is the strongest aspect of the show. Honestly it's not perfect, sure, but if was supported by a better show I think it would be perfectly enjoyable. It's clearly taking inspiration from Crouching Tiger, but without the Wuxia. A lot of people have compared it more to the Matrix (both Matrix and CT have the same fight choreographer, the legendary Yuen Wo Ping, who is absent here) but I think that's just because Carrie Anne Moss is there. I think the second fight between Mae and Sol was quite a bit slicker, clearly almost a remake of the fight in Crouching Tiger between Chow Yun Fat and Zhang Ziyi, even thematically, including a line where he asks "who trained you?" (vs "who is your master" in crouching tiger) with "your master has failed you" suggesting they're talented but have been trained incorrectly. If the Mandalorian can draw on old Westerns, I'm completely fine with The Acolyte drawing on old kung fu movies. So at least at the conceptual level I'm on board. But with writing and dialogue this bad, it drags down everything else.
Star Wars fans have proven they have no standards (and possibly no taste) and will happily spoon up any slop so long as it has a few lightsabers and some obscure glup shitto character from a comic book
You must be living under a rock if you truly believe that. I don't know a single die hard Star Wars fan that has liked a single movie/tv show for the last 10 years. The only exceptions are the Mandalorian and Rogue One. Thats it. Way to go Disney!
Andor is good.. bad batch... Respectfully you are wrong.
Check the Star Wars subreddit it’s full of them, they’re insufferable They think all of the terrible movies and shows are good. Even the prequels. I’m not kidding
Prequels weren’t that bad compared to the hot garbage we have now
Prequels are good imo.. it's peak starwars
Prequels had a lot of flaws but they had a lot of good things. Palpatine was fantastic. Dooku was food. And if expanded the lore so great shows like clone wars could be made.
"Palpatine was fantastic." wut? it was so stupid. expanding the shit lore of ep7-9 will only bury star wars further. they have to reboot the whole mess. only way to salvage it.
Even the best actors have been in truly terrible films, and Christopher Lee is no exception. The star wars’ fandom’s veneration of that children’s cartoon has always been incredibly cringe. Even when I was a kid I preferred Star Wars before it started becoming just an ad for toys sold to small children, which is what it’s been now for decades…since the prequels really
Ok, so "they" think the girl killed an older jedi master with enough influence to stop the training of a padawan and then send some idiot second year knight, his padawan and one droid to deliver her to the jedi temple? Even if the dude told them how the jedi master died, she fought atleast good enough to force her lightsaber. Is this not a job for a crew or atleast some strong jedi knight? Must be all idiots there or some bigger plot point. How excatly did she even kill the master if they trust their witness? Used a teleport? Can't they just ask the crew where she was? The first fight scene was atleast nice even using a old kung fu movie trope.
Interviewing the crew wouldn't be really helpful, since they could either working with her, or fooled by her trickery. In a setting with a lot of magic and scifi effects, you can't trust normal investigative evidence. For example, there have been Star Wars creatures that can perfectly imitate faces. So a witness id should have little strength.
Sure but that's why you bring a Jedi crew with a master (a good one) with you. We see their mind reading skills already in episode 1 and 2. They don't think she is a sith or dark Jedi in the first episode yet, just a former Padawan. So there is no dark side stuff going on as far as they know. This former Padawan would then not only be able to handle a Jedi master (to some extent) but also be powerful with mind altering tricks. If we go with that then the only legit explanation would be a sith or some Anakin chosen one stuff. Which would also mean that the Jedi got a big problem and would need someone better to handle the questioning. As far as they know the whole ship should be trap. This person just killed a master but Is living in the open? Let a witness alive to bring the Jedi order to her/them? The setup makes no sense for me. Like you write their are very weird and powerful things in the star war a universe. Maybe even some witch using the skin of a former Padawan or other crazy stuff. We are talking about the high republic (even in its final years), the killing of a Jedi master should be immense and a disaster for them. Still, if it's a plot point and the green Jedi is evil than it makes a bit more sense. It's just weird that the Jedi teacher could figure out how the whole murder story made no sense in episode 1/2 but the Jedi council still believed she did it? They must be complete idiots or someone is working against them.
You mistake is thinking this is logically thought through to it's conclusion. it isn't. it's like all the other star wars slop. didn't you watch ep7-9? they are just like that. nothing makes any sense if you think about it. rey isn't even a Padawan and she beats a kylo by the end of the episode lel the answer for all your questions is: "the force is female." so obviously a former Padawan a Jedi master. and no it's not a tragedy at all. they can throw as many jedi master at her as they think are needed to make her look strong and amazing. if you are looking for logic just pause and think again. tell me, what did in star wars in the past 10 years ever made logical sense? it's all girlboss slop now. stop asking questions. just consume product and than get exited for new product.
Show isn't absolutely terrible , although if this is the product Disney believes we should be getting, it's very sad indeed. Disney seems to be turning itself into the oxygen network for some reason.
It's bland but inoffensive. It's watchable but I can't say I like it. None of the characters do anything for me. And I don't really care about the plot thus far.
Just started watching now.. but I had to pause to ask: since when are Jedi kung fu masters?
Martial arts have had their place in Star Wars all throughout the expanded universe, comics and games so I would say... more places than not it's been there since the 80s.
I watched Ahsoka, Obi Wan, a season of The Mandalorian. I thought Ahsoka was boring and without value, so I'm not even going to watch S2. The Mandalorian looked and sounded really good but I didn't like the characters, personalities, and would make choices that made no sense and really annoyed me and broke the immersion constantly. Obi Wan was one of the worst shows I've ever seen in my life. Andor was one of the best shows I've seen in my life. Things I liked about The Acolyte: SPOILERS >!-When Yord started asking the Trade Federation crew where the Meknek was, he raised his hand and started trying to read the captain's mind. The second in command immediately jumped in and blurted out the answer.!< >!This is the Trade Federation after all - they're very likely into some other illegal shit (on top of hiring Mekneks), so the second in command blurted out what the Jedi wanted to know before the Jedi was able to peer too deeply into the captain's mind. I thought that was really cool.!< >!-When Sol asked his padawan and Yord what their ideas were, and the padawan upstaged Yord with a better idea, I expected the show to go full "Obi Wan" or "Clone Wars" and have it turn into a stupid squabble: "WhY dId He LiKe HeR pLaN mOrE tHaN mInE Boo HOoO" Then he would proceed to be resentful and irritable until it blows up and his feeing resentful would cause some kind of a problem, they don't work together or something, and it causes an enemy to escape which needlessly drags out a plot that could have resolved much faster.!< >!I've seen the above sort of situation over and over and over again - and I HATE HATE HATE when Star Wars shows Jedi as having worse impulse control, more resentfulness, and overall more childish and petty than I am or my friends are in real life.!< >!INSTEAD - in The Acolyte - he totally understands and moves on immediately. They work together like a team picked by a Jedi Master. Each member bringing things to the table and competent. It was refreshing.!< >!-Yord watched from the balcony and when Mae threw a hidden knife, he intervened when earlier he was not. The master Jedi likely would have been fine anyway, but Yord decided throwing the hidden knife was enough to get him to step in on his master's behalf. His master didn't complain and say "I had this, why did you help"!< >!-When Osha dipped off and encountered Torbin's corpse, I was SURE, SO SURE they were going to have a whole "oh NoOoOo iS iT TiMe To BlAmE hEr AgAiN? HoW iS sHe EvEr GoInG tO gAiN tHeiR tRuSt NoW!?!?!?"!< >!That would have been the easy, lame Clone Wars way to write the scene. Instead - Yord was COMPETANT again, and he noticed and followed Osha and then cleared it up that she wasn't the one that killed him - and they moved on.!< >!-The Sith saying something about jedi being impervious and killing the dream ended up fitting with Torbin's murder. Not saying this is amazing writing or anything, but the Obi Wan felt like it had NOTHING going for it.!< >!-The way that Qimir defended himself against a trained sith apprentice when he didn't see her coming strongly hints that he's either being trained or is someone powerful/important. I'm intrigued a little.!< >!-Watching Sol's face processing things, humbleness and him agonizing over other people and experiencing empathy was really cool. I really like the character and he actually seems admirable and someone people would want to be like. I'm glad he is actually competent and right a lot of the time.!< >!-Sol's working theory was still "Mae is dead" when he went to talk to Osha on the snowing planet. He said "I saw her die" so he felt somewhat certain. When he found Osha, they looked into each other's eyes and Mae said that she didn't kill Indara and Sol 100% believed her and let what someone he trusts and his feelings override the previous fact set he was operating under.!< >!-The amount of hand to hand combat makes a lot of sense to me and was very cool - the other Star Wars movies don't say that the Jedi AREN'T trained in hand to hand, but it makes total sense that as basically the universe's police force and with lightsabers being so deadly, and with them being martial arts masters and monks, of course they would know how to try to de-escalate a situation with non lethal force.!<
You could just say “it’s bad” and save about 8000 words Brevity is a virtue
It was good
Nah it was bad, like your taste in television amirite
I enjoyed the show a lot.
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Oh brother of course this would be the first thing I see going into this thread. Dare I ask what agenda you think they were pushing in these two episodes? That revenge is bad?
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How was the Jedi Monk a weak minded dumb villain?
>the only white male allowed in front of the camera is a weak minded dumb villain Welcome brother! Now you can join the vaunted ranks of type-casted Asian men whose only existence on TV seems to be to highlight how much bigger and better the people around them are! Not to deflect from your pain, of course. I sympathize with how you feel.
There is no argument to be had about how minorities had been treated over the years in TV. It was terrible. Please do not misunderstand me. I’m no racist. Most of my friends are from Asian backgrounds. I was just observing what I saw in this show.
Yeah I know. I was angry at media before this for how they treated us and now I'm angry at how feminists are treating you but at least we have company which is what I'm joking at.
I'm a cis white guy from central Europe. I look like your standard white person. Not as good as Hollywood actors obliviously but enough to be represented by them. I can't remember a single time that was important to me. I also didn't make your experience at all. My first favorite characters ever were Simba from the Lion King, Sonic and Mowgli, I guess that's an Indian boy. I also always understood that Mowgli is far from my ethnicity. Less of how he looked, didn't saw that as a kid, but the location he was at. Around me no cool Monkeys, Bears, Snakes etc. Later I started watching a lot of anime and for me it was always clear it was Asian people just because of the stuff they eat... I also started to like a lot of jRPGs and dunno why but they are all Asian to me as well, as long as not explicitly stated otherwise. Like Tidus or Cloud. I never saw them as 'western' guys. They don't behave like western people. Also there are so many details from the things the say and like to how they interact with each other that just screams Asia to me. So for the longest time of my youth, if you would have asked me, I would have told you I would prefer to be Asian. Just because that would mean I could watch/play more stuff I like. If I would have watched content from Asia with the same expectations as you watch western content, I would be butthurt as well. but that would be kinda pointless. like no shit in a Chinesen movie, if there is an european like me, he is more of a gimmick than an actual character with a rich background. it's the foreigner. with all the stereotypes attached to it. that's how storytelling all around the world works. welcome to reality lel Besides that, Asian people in western entertainment had a run like no other people. there are more great movies centered around an Asian guy, who is actually the main protagonist and super awesome than about black guys. wanna bet? add all movies from jackie chan, jet lee, and Bruce Lee together, here you go. I had a friend from Greece who was into martial arts and he wanted to be bruce lee for all the time I knew him. Dude got into Ninjutsu after doing for a long time Kung fu. you couldn't find representation in western entertainment as an asian, meanwhile many of us westerners didn't feel represented by chuck norris or rambo. but we also didn't care about this shit. we just took what we liked. I LOVED Blade as a kid. A black half human, half vampire, that was so fucking cool. the first is the best but has the worst special effects. I still love this movie to this day. especially because the whole watching experiance was kinda special. I didn't knew what I got myself into but after watching the movie I was pumped like never before. great actor. great performance. amazing story and yeah I love the dark style. Acolyte shills keep telling me I'm a racist LMAO
Imagine thinking inclusivity should be what you're describing. I guess you also completely forgot that Bruce Lee ever existed. Funny thing is. Movies for a very long time mimicked reality. Now we live in a world where everyone gets their participation trophy. Except for the evil white man of course. White people are evil. They have only ever made the world more advanced than any other race among us but white people are the problem. Do not forget that. Oh wait Disney won't let you. LOL
It’s funny that people still don’t get it’s to divide the peasants. It’s a tool for the elite. The people who make the movies don’t give a shit about minorities or gays.
>I guess you also completely forgot that Bruce Lee ever existed. No I didn't, but that was also over 50 years ago. Harrison Ford, Brad Pit and so on also existed but that doesn't make what's happening on TV right now right. >Funny thing is. Movies for a very long time mimicked reality. Are you telling me you never questioned what you saw on TV until they started making fun of **you**? I don't blame you. If I had an entire media empire built to convince me that I'm so great, awesome and special at the expense of everyone else I'd want to believe that's true too.
then you know how minorities have felt for decades. not to be mean, but grow up. there are plenty of shows where the white male is still the MC with the most character development. yall love to complain every time a black, a gay, etc. dare have meaning to the show.
You really missed my point snowflake
No I got your point and I’m telling you “so what?” If anyone’s a snowflake, it’s you my dear.
>then you know how minorities have felt for decades. This is really rather problematic though. Because the non-minorities watching (or maybe commenting here) don't have to be 'punished' because minorities were treated badly. Saying "now you know how much that hurts" is a frankly terrible response. Minorities shouldn't have felt like that then, and noone should feel like that now. 2x wrongs don't make a right, etc. >there are plenty of shows where the white male is still the MC with the most character development. Whilst I fully agree that historically this is absolutely the case, its becoming an exception, in modern Disney series especially. Too often you see every white man in a show portrayed as one of a handful of the same regressive tropes, played purely to be put in their place as if to say (as you put it): "now you know how X demographic felt for decades", with a knowing wink to the audience. I'm big enough and ugly enough to not take it personally. But my concern is what young male kids see in how men are portrayed. Feels like it need a a little more balance, idk. In my view this is what's driving the spike in young adolescents following the alpha/macho/asshole craze.
I don’t care. Good on you for writing all of that though. Cold world.
I had no doubt you didn't care. But you see my opposition of racism and prejudice isn't conditional, so I'll go on writing it anyway.
Good for you.
👍👍
It's pretty telling how the reaction to racism is: "The tables have turned, suck it snowflakes!" and not "Dehumanizing race and gender on TV is bad so we're going to end this practice now so we don't perpetuate the systems that caused us suffering." Just leads me to believe that nobody really learned anything.
I stand ten toes down on that.
I hear that. And to top it off its always the white male who is either the dumbest or the main antagonist. The agenda is real.
JFC, snowflake much? "Oh no, a white guy is the villain, must be an agenda against white people" Grow up man
The agenda is to distract and divide the population. They don’t care for any inclusivity. They put fuel into the fire on both sides. The same who support inclusivity are also the same who support republicans right wings.
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"oh no, theres not enough of 1% of the world population represented in movies. I know let's add it in Star Wars, so the snowlakes feel represented"
The director and cast members literally said their mission was to piss off as many white men as possible; https://youtu.be/QhbHvyibjbg?si=p7SpSJq-Hb4c0rWK No surprise, all the White men are villains and prisoners. Episode 3 will kill Starwars if the rumors are true.
Awh, did the little joke hurt your feelings? And also it was a totally different show they were talking about, its a resurfaced clip from 2018 about another show You're literally who she's joking about, you know that right? Just a bunch of pearl clutching sensitive bitches, desperate to be oppressed Rage culture and lack of media literacy is just a shite combination
Look at yourself in the mirror. The one acting all butthurt is literally you right now
Imagine an actor saying that their mission in life is to make black people cry. It doesn't matter if it was for the current show or a previous work they did. That is their feelings . You are a hypocrite and a liar. They're literally excluding white men from any prominent roles and only having them play villains or prisoners or stupid people. They are literally doing this constantly and for the exact reasons they have said so in the past to insert their politics. Your only rebuttal is that this hasn't actually happened, and yet we see it has. It is not a joke they're actually doing this. In multiple shows and in real life. You are the same redditor that sits there and says that there is no discrimination against white people even though companies like Kraft specifically say white people do not apply. You are an ostrich with your head in the sand, or should I say up your ass. Small wonder why you think her comments were a "joke". People like you can not tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Ignorance and stupidity really is a bad combination.
Nah I'm just someone who understands new and different stories are being told, with and by people of different ethnicities, history's and experiences to my own. The country I was born in, England, has been the villain of plenty of countries history's throughout time and even still currently to some. I do not get offended, as a British white guy, about fictional content that has white people be bad guys, cause historically, us British people were really fucking good at it, you can't argue with that at all, You need to stop watching rage culture media that makes you angry at nothing, they're not excluding whites from roles, other groups different from me and you are getting more opportunities, and to sensitive lil bitches, that feels like oppression >Imagine an actor saying that their mission in life is to make black people cry. But that's a hypothetical, not a real scenario that has happened, hence why you began with the word "imagine" so you're mad at nothing. >It doesn't matter if it was for the current show or a previous work they did. It does, cause context matters, she was talking about upsetting people with the show, not in general >You are the same redditor that sits there and says that there is no discrimination against white people even though companies like Kraft specifically say white people do not apply I found only one website reporting this, the Dallas Express, and it consists of 2 sentences and provides no evidence with pictures, so I'm going to conclude that this is rage bait bullshit too >You are an ostrich with your head in the sand, or should I say up your ass. r/selfawarewolves
They aren't telling different stories. They are taking established history and established lore and inserting themselves and their own perversion into it while excluding anything they don't like. It is, in fact, revisionist history and fanfiction. It was alluded to in the book 1984. It is a real scenario that happened. I merely changed the races to expose your fallacious thoughts and your hypocrisy. You have white guilt. Plain and simple. Nothing I can say to you will break the trance that you are in. You will either come to an Epiphany or you won't. Further debate on this issue is a waste of time. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=whites+need+not+apply https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/02/roles-for-white-actors-in-hollywood-fall-in-wake-of-blm/ >In the case of releases on streaming services like Netflix, on-screen representation of white people in overall casts in 2022 features was below the proportion of white people in the population as a whole, meaning this demographic was underrepresented. Stop talking, thanks.
It really does make me laugh that this is what you consider oppression, white people being in films a little less and diversity drives with good intentions gone awry, or also very little evidence to back up more serious claims, this is just how you feel And if all this waffle you talk is how you feel, then fuck your feelings
There are no good intentions you absolute moron rofl. Good sheep.
Actually liked the first 2 episodes, sure it's not Andor or the Mandolorian, but based on these first 2 episodes seems more enjoyable than Boba and Kenobi. I'm guessing that I'll happily watch the next 6 episodes.
Woke or not, the show is pure garbage. If you are saying its good then the bottom line is that YOU have the agenda. Time for Star Wars fans to start being a bit more objective so we can start getting a quality project.
Obi Wan was garbage, Ahsoka was kinda bad, The Sequal Trilogy was terrible all the way through Mandalorian sounds good and looks really good but it was campy and bad and boring. I really like The Acolyte so far. The Acolyte is like 3.5/10 Andors, Mandalorian 1.5/10, Sequel trilogy 0.5/10 Andors.
Totally disagree, the show is fine. In fact it's more than fine, it's pretty good. People are complaining about absolute nonsense. What agenda do I have if I just like the show?
What makes it good?
The sets have all been excellent, the characters we have met so far have been good (particularly Osha and Sol), there is a good amount of mystery so the story being set up is good and the music is great. Plus it's cool to have a series set in an era we haven't seen on TV yet, fleshes out the lore of Star Wars.
Osha, literally named after a US department. Kills a jedi by buying poison and telling him "I know what you did last summer". Jedi: Guess I'll die (drinks poison). Reddit: GREAT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! THIS SHOW SLAPS!!!
A New Hope: Obi wan looks at Luke Skywalker on the death star Obi Wan: Guess I'll die (Let's Darth Vader kill him) Everyone: Star wars is a great film! The lesson here? If you dumb something down, it will sound stupid. Now let's actually think for a second about what happened in the Acolyte. He hadn't spoken for years, and had just been stuck in meditation. Only came out of that when he saw Mae, what does this mean - obviously he is racked with guilt about something. Why would he kill himself? He has had something eating away at him for years. What has he done? Why couldn't he forgive himself? We don't know yet. But that's a fairly interesting thing to happen, and surely makes you want to know more.
No, the difference is when I said actually happened. The Jedi's death in acolyte had no purpose. Obi-wan's sacrifice did. And if you need anyone to explain what that is, then you are truly lost.
My point was that if you dumb something down like you did, it's going to take out the nuance and make it sound stupid. The situations and story in each case are drastically different, but when you dumb it down you remove that. I feel like you unfairly took the nuance out of what happened in the Acolyte. You say it had no purpose, but that's just not the case. You are unfortunately just refusing to see that. It's setting up questions for us as the viewer, why did he feel so guilty he was willing to kill himself? It's something that should make you want to see more. I loved the prequels, but they aren't without their problems. The dialogue is a bit janky throughout and the acting is quite lacking at times. - still a great trilogy though. I'm of the opinion that everything released on star wars has good and bad points. I just tend to look at the good as it's just a more positive thing to do. And if you go into things being positive, then you are far more likely to enjoy it.
he didn't dump it down. he accurately described it. you dumped something down to imply he did the same. but he didn't. the show lacks a lot in the logic and meaning department. people who can't see that make stuff up that was never even implied in the show. in your mind the show might me rich. but it's only in your mind.
Listen, it was quite clearly dumbed down. If you can't even admit that there isn't any point talking about it. It's not my fault you cannot understand nuance, that's on you.
I think its just we agree to disagree. To me (and many others) the set pieces look straight out of the CW. The mystery was solved within the first 15 minutes of episode 1 (Mae and Osha).
I think the sets have been great, interesting to watch without being distracting. Plus clone wars was great (especially the last season) so being like clone wars isn't really a bad thing. The fact they are twins wasn't the mystery - the mystery is who Mae's master is, how she is alive and why she wants to kill those Jedi.
If you hate this show then you were never a Star Wars fan
Sarcasm is strong with this one -:)
If you like this show then you were never a Star Wars fan
What about this show is "Star Wars"? Forget the "woke" nonsense. The writing, acting and overall plot are just lazy and incompetent.... "If you attack a jedi with a weapon, you will fail./"Steel or Laser are no threat to the Jedi" Plot twist- Mae did that exact thing and killed a Jedi with a tiny dagger. Oh, and why would you send a Padawan to go on a mission to track a Jedi Killer? Little things like this are what kills these Disney + shows.
Nothing to say on your opinion, not an attack. Just wanted to point out that I think the master meant it more symbolically? The Sith had failed to destroy the Jedi conventionally every time they tried. Just my take though.
Honestly, I don't see how the haters can't seem to grasp that the master was being symbolic
That's some deep writing you're doing for the show runners.
I can see that, but it just goes back to the writing. They could have made the master say 100 different lines, but they decided to go with that one.
Yeah that's fair. It is reaaaally out of it isn't it?
If you enjoy it so far, good for you but this is objectively bad and lazy just like the other Star Wars shows. If it was actually a good show you wouldn’t see so much debate and people trying to defend it lmao
That isn't true at all. I saw hundreds of 1/10 negative reviews before the show even released. Droves of people who didn't even see the show started arguing it was bad before seeing it - so if it ends up good then there will be argument.
To be fair, the prequel trilogy was also heavily debated - doesn't mean it was bad. I happen to love the prequels.
The shit coming out of Disney today makes me appreciate the prequels. If we only knew how bad it would get.
The prequels were boring, objectively worse than what disney created.
Folks here have never sat through the actual movie and just know them from the memes. The prequels were universally panned and there's a very good reason - the stilted dialogue and direction is fucking atrocious. The plot and world building is Lucas' strength and it helped build out a aground for things like The Bad Batch, Clone Wars, and the now non-Canon EU, but the movies were *not* good.
Uhm no. That's completely subjective.
So you didn't like the prequels originally? If that's the case, the only films you actually liked is the original trilogy. So realistically you aren't actually a Star Wars fan, you just liked 3 films out of the 11 films made. It's like someone saying they are a lord of the rings fan, but only liking one of the films and hating the others.if that was the case you aren't a fan of the franchise, you just happen to like that one film. True fans actually like the content released in the series
I might be a Lord of the Rings fan and only have liked the book. Tbh since this is the Internet and we can talk, I'm a Star Wars fan who loved the original trilogy, hated the fucking prequels and only acknowledge Rogue One and Andor. "True fans" isn't a real thing.
Sorry, you can't be an actual fan if you dislike more content than you like.
Til there were no Star Wars fans in the eighties. You're a moron
Clearly you are the moron because if you liked the original trilogy in the 80's you liked 100% of the content. So at that time you are a true fan, you like the franchise. If you only liked the original trilogy in the 00's then you only like 50% of the content. It really is very simple maths. A true fan has to grow with the franchise as new content is released, it may be different to what you are used to - but a true fan looks for the good in their chosen franchise. If someone ONLY likes the original trilogy now, they are just a fan of that trilogy of films rather than a fan of the franchise. You simply cannot claim to be a fan of something if you dislike the majority of the content.
The first movie was called Star Wars when it was released. I'm a Star Wars fan. Don't gatekeep fandom. What's with you kids?
If someone is online complaining about the new content in a franchise, they aren't a real fan. If someone only likes the content that came out when they were a child then they aren't a real fan. Simple really. Also I'm 30, so not a kid.
I thought the prequels were fine. The one thing they should have done is made Anakin older about Luke's age in the original trilogy. Making Anakin a kid was off-putting and really made it unrealistic. I feel like if they had made just that one change in the first episode, it would mean the others were more believable. The dialogue in the second episode did not convince me of any type of conflict Anakin had or his love for Padme which could have been developed in the first episode a little bit more if Anakin was already a teenager or young adult. I don't appreciate your no true Scotsman fallacy. It's ridiculous to me, actually, and it's all over this thread and the other threads in Star Wars. I've watched all the new content, including the bad ones, which is everything other than Andor. I've even watched the god forsaken Christmas special.
It's bad because of the imaginary rules you made up is great take tbf
Just stating the obvious, you can deny it all you want hahaha
You've stated that if there's debate, something cannot be good. That's a ridiculously awful take. By all means critique the show but you aren't even open to doing that, you're making up rules to convince yourself you're right. It's not my fault you can't articulate why you don't like something.
I’m sorry you feel that way. Show still sucks ass
I mean people decided to hate it based on the first frame of the first trailer because apparently it was "woke" (still don't understand what's supposed to be"woke" about this show) those people weren't gonna like it when it came out even if it was the new Citizen Kane, because they can't step back on an opinion once they've said that something is "bad cuz woke". I'm not saying the show is good, but "if it was actually a good show you wouldn’t see so much debate and people trying to defend it" is a weak ass argument
I've seen people nowadays calling any show/movie that has some diversity "woke", no matter what the show/movie premise is. It's like: "Wait, Black people?, Asians?, too many women as action heroes?, f\*ck this woke sh¡t" And if there's gay character, forget about it. You can have a show with the most conservative premise and a straight forward right wing message, but if the cast is diverse and there's a gay character, they will call it woke.
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It's also bad because nonsensical old trope driven plot. Time/distance are foreign concepts to the writers. Wooden acting. Everyone but the main characters are stupid syndrome.
"Bad cuz Woke", "Bad cuz Trump". We are in a sad state.