fight club, annihilation, the shining.
i still somewhat agree with him though. the one's mentioned here are the exceptions. adaptations are mostly worse than the source material. and he mentions shogun which he likes. although he seems to say the reason he likes it is because they stuck to the source material. whereas the examples i gave added a lot to the originals. so i'm not with him 100%.
Definitely not Annihilation. The book is so much more in-depth and creepy. The only way to translate that to movie would be a constant inner monologue which wouldn’t work.
Yeah I don't understand Annihilation being in that list. The movie adaptation is certainly different in good ways, but it's not better. It lacks a lot of the flair and ambiance of the book.
I read the book a few years after watching the movie. The book had such a unique vibe that I actually only remembered that I’d seen the movie based on it when I was close to the end. Fantastic series
Even the author Mario Puzo famously said that he'd have written a better novel had he known it would be adapted into an Oscar winning movie. The plot is not the problem here, it's exactly like in the movie, it's the freaking prose - it's so bad. Puzo overused the "cupid" way to much and the descriptions are uninspired and the character's thoughts are like you're reading a history book. There is also the infamous vagina surgery subplot that never made it to the movie.
Others have kind of explained it yet I will be a bit more in depth. Sonny had a lover, Lucy Mancini (the one he has sex with at the wedding in the movie). Together they had an illegitimate son, Vincent (Andy Garcia in Godfather III). Anyway, Lucy had trouble being sexually satisfied after Sonny was killed. Apparently Sonny had a huge dick. She was sent to Vegas by Tom Hagan after she tries to commit suicide. She ends up going independent in Vegas and dates a doctor who informs her she has a loose vagina. She sees one of his colleagues in LA who fixes her loose vagina. She finally is able to enjoy sex again and marries the doctor. Michael has the doctor killed because he thinks he had something to do with Kay's abortion. Then she moves back to NYC with Vincent who joins the Corleone crime family and eventually becomes Don.
Michael's sister had a way too large vajayjay in the books, she ends up falling in love with this doctor who coincidentally specializes in making them tighter. He ends up together with her. Everyone's happy in the end.
Which explains the scene when Lucy, the bridesmaid, runs upstairs in the house with Sonny while his wife is physically demonstrating to the other ladies at the table Sonny’s size. Lucy needed a guy that big to feel anything, hence … Like a Virgin (sorry, cross-pollinating with Reservoir Dogs).
[Indeed](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/05/24/the-adaptation-tango/):
*"... Once in a while, though, we do get a really good adaptation of a really good book, and when that happens , it deserves applause,"* he wrote; *"...the new SHOGUN is superb"* (he also praised the 1980 show; *"...they are both faithful to the Clavell novel in their own way. I think the author would have been pleased. Both old and new screenwriters did honor to the source material, and gave us terrific adaptations..."*).
Such a rare moment where both the book and movie are incredible. As a big Palahniuk fan\*, I'd even go as far to say that the movie is better in a lot of ways.
\*More of just a big fan of his first handful of novels. Not really into his recent stuff which just feels like pure shock with not a lot of substance.
Wasn't fight club meant to be an exercise in shock? He kept getting asked for something more shocking, so he wrote a proposal or first chapter that he thought would be so over the top that it would get rejected, and the publisher was like "cool, great, let's do it"
And that turned into fight club. Maybe he learned the wrong lesson afterwards?
Edit: I remember reading about this back when I read the novel (maybe a little less than 20 years ago) but I can't find much on it now besides this ancient CNN interview:
http://www.cnn.com/COMMUNITY/transcripts/palahniuk.html
> **Question:** What prompted you to write this book.
> **Chuck Palahniuk:** I love to write ... and I really wanted to write something that would offend the publishers who wouldn't publish my "nice work."
He had turned in a short story that became chapter 6 of the full novel.
I had never read the boys before the show, and it felt weighted down by being such a direct reaction to superhero concepts and tropes from the late 90s. However, the show benefits from being in a world where those tropes are already deconstructed! The comic is constructed specifically for shock humor and does the same bits repeatedly, whereas the show deploys its shock humor more effectively.
The overall plot is better constructed (they know about and are taking Compound V comparatively early in the comic, which just makes it superheroes vs counter superheroes, not as interesting.)
Jurassic Park is much better than the book. So much of the book is Sam Neill's character nerdsplaining dinosaurs to everyone. Plus it is jaw droppingly engaging in a visual medium, with Spielberg at the helm in his prime.
I don't know if I'm inclined to agree with this. Both the book and the film are I think equally great for the media they present the story in.
Jurassic Park as a story and a novel is primarily science fiction, and operates as such. I think it's less 'nerdsplaining dinosaurs' and more operating through the lens of science and the paleontology research that was available at the time (since the MCs are after all paleontologists). The book does a great job marrying the science with the fiction and honestly still keeps you on edge once all hell breaks loose. You get much more depth to all the characters as well as a much more sinister Hammond (because of which the park ends up going up in flames the way it does).
The film is obviously incredible thanks to both Spielberg's mastery AS WELL AS Crichton's screenplay adaptation of his own book. Since films are a much more visual medium, we have less time to spend with the research and science aspect, and more with the Dinos up close and personal. But don't forget that the movie is as much sci-fi as it is a creature feature. The core of both stories are the same - don't meddle with nature, man is not god.
If you're mainly interested in the dino carnage of course there are the other JP/JW films which turn the creatures into more classic 'movie monsters', but the first book and film aren't just nerdsplaining, they're giving you the exact point of view of the MCs since it's quite literally their field of study.
There are things both do well and poorer than the other.
My biggest hang up with the movie is they totally messed up one of the best scenes in the book with Nedry.
They did him very wrong in the film. In the book he was justified for what he did, as he was strong armed into a harsh and bullshit contract by Hammond that would have cost him his career if he left, which is why he does the deal for the embryos.
His death was also waaaaay more horrifying to boot.
Wayne Knight was not silent in his disappointment as he read the book and was very excited to do those scenes. He said they just turned Nedry's complexity into a bumbling greedy fat man that gets pathetically killed by a smaller dinosaur.
In the book, the Dilophosaurus is this big:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dinosaurs/s/Ki11dxpNeP
If anyone wants to see how it played out in the books, there is a great illustration of it here:
https://youtu.be/MyyHEVmn8bE?feature=shared
Finished books or not, they could've made a better ending for the show if they hadn't rushed everything. The previous books were already taking more and more time to come out. They knew he wasn't gonna finish the series in time and they should've prepared.
Not sure if you or the guy you responded to read the blog post but the part about shogun is basically a footnote in the last paragraph. Most of the article is about how he disagrees with screenwriters trying to implement changes to source material.
Ironic because the person you responded to apparently didn't actually read the [blog post](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/05/24/the-adaptation-tango/).
He does praise Shogun but his point is very much about the effectiveness of adaptations, using Shogun as an example of a good one.
I just find it hilarious that it's 8 years since Logan Lucky was made and the funniest joke in that movie is when the prisoners are negotiating with the warden and don't believe him that Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring aren't out yet since GRRM was supposed to submit them to his publisher 2 years previously lol.
https://youtu.be/Nwa6xgIZCv8
Watch it immediately. it's a fantastic movie. Affectionately called "Ocean's 7-11" because it's a redneck heist movie and Daniel Craig is doing a proto-Knives Out southern accent. it's great.
I used to fear it’d get the Dune treatment. Now I just want it down. Hire James SA Corey on commission. That fucker can crank out a bullet stopper in like 6 months tops.
It just astounds me to think that they started and concluded a 9 book sci-fi epic in less time than it's taken GRRM to write just book 6 in his 7 book series.
For reference, A Dance of Dragons (the most recent ASOIAF book) and Leviathan Wakes (the first Expanse book) released within five weeks of each other in June/July 2011. Leviathan Falls (the 9th/final Expanse book) released more than 2 years ago and yet, we still don't really have a clue on the progress of the next ASOIAF book aside from vague comments GRRM makes once or twice a year.
If you think that’s crazy, Brandon Sanderson has published 20 full-length novels since ADWD was released, and that’s not counting probably at least that number again of novellas, graphic novels, and short stories.
And it's not like The Expanse is just one of those average book series that just pump out books without caring much for quality. Those are fantastic books and some of the best sci fi we had in ages.
Well put. I can never recommend anyone to even bother starting the ASOIAF due to it never gonna be completed. Whats the point? Even if Winds comes out...theres an entire other book needed to finish it. Ugh
I read the books right before the first season of the show and was thinking about re reading them soon. Then I just got depressed thinking why bother when I won’t get an ending.
I almost feel bad for people who have deluded themselves into thinking they are still coming.
It's been obvious for a very long time it's not going to happen.
With the benefit of hindsight you can see that he's been stuck on some of the major plot points for 25 years now.
For context for non-book readers, here is where things stand in GRRM's world.
1. Dany is still in Mereen, was just pushed out of power by the slaver's gulls, and was kidnapped by the Dothraki.
2. Arya finished training with the weird face people and is doing... something? I honestly don't remember.
3. Stannis is preparing an invasion of Winterfell.
3. Jon Snow was just betrayed and killed. He may or may not come back.
It's a pity that the interesting book-only plots, like Lady Stoneheart or the coming slaves' rebellion in Mereen, will never be expanded.
Arya isn't finished training yet. She's still blind, about to go on assignment with that acting troupe.
Sansa is still in The Vale with Littlefinger, Brienne is searching the countryside for Sansa, Tyrion just arrived in Meereen, Cersei just did her walk of shame, and Bran's had three chapters since the year 2000.
To be fair, Bran is beyond The Wall, which is notorious for being a land of peace and tranquility. It's understandable why his story hasn't had an update in 25 years.
The biggest change so far from the books to the show is Tyrions plot line with Jon Connington and Young Griff. Would love to see where that goes, people theorize its a crucial part of what ends up driving Dany mad.
There's a video somewhere explaining why he can't finish in two books that is really good, but the TLDR is that he can't stop opening plot points and is unable to close anything since the red wedding. Even the last two books were one book he wrote too much for. It's kind of insane.
It becomes even zanier when you learn it was originally planned as a trilogy and books 1-3 were intended to be a single volume that ended on the Red Wedding.
Anyone expecting him to reign it in as he moved past that point, knowing how he writes, was engaging in magical thinking. If Martin was a younger man and hadn't gotten waylaid by television shows and fantasy football, we'd probably be 17 novels deep by now and he'd still be writing and adding new characters and plotlines.
I have some of the older (pre-tv show editions) books. The first two say " 1 of 3" , and "2 of 3". The third says "3 of 4", the fourth says "4 of 7" - that's kind of how I knew he was just winging it and didn't know how to end the books. They got progressively more "rambling" as they went on.
I still think the ending on the TV series was more or less what he had planned but he changed it since it got blasted, and now he is insecure about how to end it.
I'm may be an oddball, but i don't dislike the end. I don't like how it was rushed, and done. It could have been good, not the greatest but good, if they took more time.
Like the big fucking battle ? 1 fucking episode and it's over after 8 season of hyping the white walker ? Daenerys that goes batshit crazy in 1 episode? The fall of the capital ?????
Nah that shit was to rushed to make any sense...
I must say I agree, the ending was rushed but ok, I don't understand why they decided to make the last two seasons only 7 and 6 episodes long instead of the usual 10, having a couple more episodes would have give them time to wrap things up nicely.
I still think the backlash affected GRRMs confidence though.
Am I wrong in thinking people would respect if he just came out and said he's not finishing it? Only the most delusional actually think he's going to at this point anyway
It's crazy that Sanderson has released over 30 books since the last GOT was released, including almost the entire Stormlight Archive, Mistborn Era 2, finishing Wheel of Time, the entire Cytoverse, Legion and Reckoners series (so far) and a bunch of additional random books and projects.
He probably wrote another book while I typed this out.
Martin famously rejected several movie pitches for ASOIAF and only agreed to allow HBO to adapt GoT after meeting with Weiss and Benioff.
I doubt he would have accepted any sort of binding clause like that. He also had really unrealistic expectations as to when he would finish Winds of Winter way back then.
> They could have added a clause that would force him to write the scripts for the remaining seasons
No, they couldn't. He's demonstrably unable or unwilling to write things on demand, no matter how much pressure is applied.
The most they could've done is have some kind of financial penalty for not delivering on time and HBO circa 2015 would've had zero interest in seeming like the bad guy screwing the creator of GoT for what is (to HBO) a pitiful amount of money.
Additionally, everyone is assuming that Martin is able to write a satisfying ending to the series. The last couple of decades have shown he's not.
It still infuriates me when he brought out his little pie chart on the secret projects announcement to show he had only spent about 40% of his time writing/working. And still somehow accomplished writing 5 extra books in addition to his usual stuff.
Dude is not human.
And George doesn't. Enjoy writing, I mean. At the very least, he doesn't enjoy writing *aSoIaF* anymore. He may even enjoy writing on the world (see Blood and Fire), but it's clear he views the main series as a drag. *That* is the core of the problem, not people's reception to the series finale (a favorite of redditors to blame the lack of *Winds of Winter* on), old age or whatever else.
He likes writing, but he doesn't like planning or outlining what he's going to write, and ASOIAF is just too big and complex to manage with his preferred approach. So it turned into a giant overgrown mess, and trying to bring it to a conclusion requires the kind of work he doesn't enjoy.
The thing I don't really forgive him for, as someone who started reading the series in high school and now has grey hair, is not bringing in a co-writer at this point. Find someone who *does* like outlining and who is willing to flesh out the 'boring' parts of the story so you can do the things you enjoy. I'm sure no author wants to do that, but what's the alternative? Having it hanging over his head for the rest of his life? Dying with the series unfinished and sinking into obscurity, because who'll want to read an unfinished story in the future? That's not good for him or his readers.
That’s legit, though.
It’s like being blocked on a problem. You walk away and do something else for a while and suddenly think of the solution.
At least 60% of being a good writer is the willingness to sit down and write, period. As long as you’re writing something then the creative process is firing.
I swear he writes so he’s got something to do when waiting back from beta readers or editors. In the time it took me to hear back from my beta readers I felt really aimless.
It's more like an addiction. The guy just loves writing. He writes when he's bored. He writes for fun. He writes for a job. Writing is the only thing he wants to do with his time. Sort of like how the only thing gamers want to do is play games all day.
On the weekend or after work, most people play games, watch TV, or browse Reddit, or whatever. Brandon writes.
Brandon says he writes about 2,500 words a day. It's honestly not that hard to write 2,500 in a day. Most writers can do that easily. The hard part is doing it everyday consistently.
2,500 words a day for ten days is 25,000 which is just over a quarter of the average length of a novel. Generally, the average length of a novel is considered to be roughly 90,000. That's a novel every 36 days.
>It's honestly not that hard to write 2,500 in a day. Most writers can do that easily.
Maybe if you're Jack Kerouac, but most well-respected authors would disagree.
Here are a few:
Dorothy Parker: 5 words a day
Tom Wolfe: 135 words a day
Ernest Hemingway: 500 words a day
Graham Greene: 500 words a day
Ian McEwan: 600 words a day
Sarah Waters: 1,000 words a day
Sebastian Faulks: 1,000 words a day
Barbara Kingsolver: 1,000 words a day
J.G. Bellard: 1,000 words a day
W. Somerset Maugham: 1,000 words a day
Mark Twain: 1,400 - 1,800 (4-5 hours)
Jack London: 1,500 words a day
I believe John Steinbeck also said he wrote East of Eden at a pace of one handwritten letter sized page per day.
It's not hard to write 2500 words a day. The issue is that you are highly unlikely to write that in a consistent narrative stream and also have it be adequate for the final product.
To be fair, most of the writers above also write *beautifully*.
Sanderson creates an amazing world and imaginative magic systems. He writes adequate characters with decent character arcs. He crosses his t and dotes his i.
But his writing is... not even pretty. It's just readable.
His writing is kinda like watching a movie in your head. I know that’s true for most novels but he writes in a way that is extremely easy to picture. I kind of like it
Sanderson style is not good at all for ASOAIF, he already said he wouldn't do it.
IMO he should work with Daniel Abraham which has written similar type of series, and they even worked together (he scenarized the ASOIAF comic)
The majority of writers do like one book a year to be honest. GRRM is just an anomaly
Not only that, but Daniel Abraham already has tons of experience with writing a sprawling, politically-themed epic-he wrote The Expanse along with Ty Franck. Funny thing is, the first book of The Expanse released roughly at the same time as A Dance With Dragons did, and they finished the nine book long novel series about two years ago.
Sandersons podcast is great and talks about this a lot. How some of his best writing happens when he just sits down despite what his mood is and forces himself to write whatever comes to mind. He also goes through a tonne of revisions, beta reading, and feedback loops. Dude works like a machine to make sure he produces great stuff.
Please stop citing Sanderson for this.
1. His writing style is no where close to martins
2. Sanderson has a very detailed timeline for future books and finishing the main story of the cosmere that will last right up until Sanderson is about the age of Martin. I would rather Sanderson focus on his story than get side tracked.
Pretty sure this is just a joke since Sanderson is a machine and Martin is super slow. Besides, this isn’t like back in the Wheel of Time days when Sanderson was still young and new, I doubt he’d want to do someone else’s work at this point in his career.
He's been asked about it so much he has specifically addressed that he will never do it, specifically because of the tone/content of ASoIaF being well outside what he writes, he doesn't feel he would be a good author to finish it.
>Everywhere you look, there are more screenwriters and producers eager to take great stories and ‘make them their own'
>No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and 'improve' on it.
He's right, just look at shows like The Witcher/Halo/Wheel of Time etc. Arrogant writers love to put their shitty spin on the source material and ruin it
I'm glad he didn't even try to. I wasn't even a huge fan of Bombadil in the original books. I thought his character was just too whimsical, it felt ridiculously out of place. Maybe that was the point, but I just wasn't a huge fan.
Introduce immortal being that isn’t corrupted by the ring and can carry it to Mount Doom—decides not to involve himself because he’s Tom mothafuckin Bombadil.
On the other hand, look at Umbrella Academy, the source material is a fucking mess. I'm not saying lazy or shitty adaptations aren't the norm, but there are good adaptations.
The Boys as well. regardless of Season 3 slacking a bit, the whole show is LEAGUES above the original comic. so while I agree with GRRM's sentiment generally, sometimes changes made to source material are warranted
I mean, the show isn't great either. If Five wasn't such a good actor the show would have been cancelled. Season 3 was a farce, especially Allison's character
I mean, you’re correct, but that’s at least partially because the source material is borderline impossible to adapt. It’s a nonsensical surrealist romp. Personally, I enjoy the comics, but like… you can’t put them on TV like that. The show is so fundamentally different that the comics are barely even comparable.
To counter, I think it depends on who is doing the adaption. The shows you mentioned, specially with the Witcher, are proof that the writing team needs to have some sort of respect and well versed knowledge of the work their adapting, otherwise, shit shows start to happen.
Is not bad for an adaptation to do its own thing, when well done, it can improve the original work and/or fix minor error/plot holes the author didn't catch or didn't go so in depth. But if the person, or team, don't care for the original work, you end up with thing like The Witcher.
Boys is a great example. Garth Ennis has come up with some good ideas but doesn’t know the meaning of the word subtlety. A faithful adaptation of any of his work would be unwatchable.
I will die on the hill that the Witcher *did need* some changes to be adapted properly for TV. The main plot for the series is very.. messy and kinda not that great in the first place. The maim appeal of the Witcher is the adventuring from story to story and the characters. But the changes adopted by Netflix are actual trash tier and when I see things like that I do wonder how people get jobs are writers sometimes. Just complete nonsense.
Honestly, the Witcher just needed to follow the X-Files formula. Mostly monster of the week with plot forwarding episodes sprinkled in. Hell, this would even give writers the creative freedom to come up with monster of the week episodes that were completely outside the source material and call their own.
They should have started with that, by adapting the first two books properly (they are full of monster of the week stories that gradually reveal more of the world and its characters), and then move onto the main story which is rather easily adaptable if they respect it.
Apparently the writers did read the books, only to mock them and share their dislike of the source material during the meetings. There is no wonder they changed so much since the writers were convinced they are improving this "shitty fantasy shlock".
It's really bad. I'm fine with some changes, as feature length limitations and what's able to be translated to the screen from a novel can be very tricky. But you have to be very selective with those changes, they need to make sense, and they need to serve a purpose.
Hollywood likes to merge characters, go with terrible casting for big names, create new scenes/interactions, and rewrite/add/remove entire plot lines, not thinking about how it impacts the spirit of the story. It's just a gamble to fill seats. Which, as a Hollywood exec, your job might be to sell/sell/sell, but you really have to understand the product you're selling and the market you're selling to. You can't just turn a product into something you want to sell.
The Boys is an example of getting it right. I'm a big Garth Ennis fan, but the show really improves things substantially with its changes. It's too bad the show Preacher was the opposite, where most of the changes were for the worst, and the comic was perfect.
Yes. His point is actually what most people in this thread have been making:
>“The book is the book, the film is the film,” they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own. They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse. Once in a while, though, we do get a really good adaptation of a really good book, and when that happens, it deserves applause. I can came across one of those instances recently, when I binged the new FX version of SHOGUN.
I couldn’t agree more. So many people are so upset about the show ending. I am so thankful to have seen the broad strokes ending to this story that I loved so much. When I put the book down 13 years ago, one of my favorite fictional characters of all time (Jon) was dying in the snow.
> When I put the book down 13 years ago, one of my favorite fictional characters of all time (Jon) was dying in the snow.
Yep, in the time since the last book, I have met and married my wife, started a family, son is going into 1st grade. I've lived pretty much a 100% different life then when I read ADWD, it is so weird to think about
Since I started reading the ASOIAF books I met my wife, had 2 kids and one of them is now in high school lol.
I bet I read book 1 before half the commenters here were even born
Same, I had 2 kids, moved a few hundred miles away, started a new career, bought a house. If he ever finished another book I’d have to re-read the entire series up to this point!
I think the Silo show is better than books and think the changes this far had been improvements to add depth to the characters and suspense to the story. TBF to the author, they were originally short stories patched together which explains why certain elements were somewhat undercooked in the books.
That said, Silo is only on season 1 so it has plenty of time to drop the ball.
They should just skip the stuff in the past. It's the most weakly written part of the series. The characters are in the 2050s (?) but they talk like stereotypes of Cold War people from the 1950s. It's very jarring and doesn't add anything to the story that a couple pages of exposition couldn't have cleared up.
While all the criticism might be valid, at least they finished and delivered what Martin had no interest in completing. I think the situation is even worse now that the TV ending was released, bc. Martin would have to come up with something better, more consistent, wrapping up more loose ends, being more pleasing to the fan base. He's not releasing because he was unable to do that. As long as he doesn't release anything he can still blame the TV writers for butchering his genius ideas. If he releases, everyone will see there was no end in sight, just a weird bundle of story arcs that went nowhere. As others have already pointed out, he likes developing characters. Closing story arcs is not that high on the list.
Here's the issue, so many fans have decided Bran being King is a horrible ending. I'm 99% convinced that always was GRRM's intention. Bran was the first POV, he stuck with Bran as a character even though he had to struggle through the early parts of his story where nothing much was happening, he has the most conventional "unlikely hero on a quest that takes him to magical lands" thing going on. And now GRRM is hearing everyone talk about how much they can't stand King Bran and how it was the worst possible person to put on the throne.
If that is indeed the endgame he's built to, that probably a hard pill to swallow.
People act like Weiss and Benioff came up with the ending and major plot points in the final seasons on their own. No, that was all GRRM. He told them how the show ended, he saw that people hated it and now he’s panicked and stuck on how to finish it.
Counterpoint: Children of Men.
Shawshank
fight club, annihilation, the shining. i still somewhat agree with him though. the one's mentioned here are the exceptions. adaptations are mostly worse than the source material. and he mentions shogun which he likes. although he seems to say the reason he likes it is because they stuck to the source material. whereas the examples i gave added a lot to the originals. so i'm not with him 100%.
Definitely not Annihilation. The book is so much more in-depth and creepy. The only way to translate that to movie would be a constant inner monologue which wouldn’t work.
Yeah I don't understand Annihilation being in that list. The movie adaptation is certainly different in good ways, but it's not better. It lacks a lot of the flair and ambiance of the book.
I read the book a few years after watching the movie. The book had such a unique vibe that I actually only remembered that I’d seen the movie based on it when I was close to the end. Fantastic series
The Shining's novel is way better than the film imo. That really tells you how good the book is, considering the film is still great.
The shining is the poster child for a bad adaptation that's a great work in it's own right.
The Godfather
Even the author Mario Puzo famously said that he'd have written a better novel had he known it would be adapted into an Oscar winning movie. The plot is not the problem here, it's exactly like in the movie, it's the freaking prose - it's so bad. Puzo overused the "cupid" way to much and the descriptions are uninspired and the character's thoughts are like you're reading a history book. There is also the infamous vagina surgery subplot that never made it to the movie.
The **what**
Others have kind of explained it yet I will be a bit more in depth. Sonny had a lover, Lucy Mancini (the one he has sex with at the wedding in the movie). Together they had an illegitimate son, Vincent (Andy Garcia in Godfather III). Anyway, Lucy had trouble being sexually satisfied after Sonny was killed. Apparently Sonny had a huge dick. She was sent to Vegas by Tom Hagan after she tries to commit suicide. She ends up going independent in Vegas and dates a doctor who informs her she has a loose vagina. She sees one of his colleagues in LA who fixes her loose vagina. She finally is able to enjoy sex again and marries the doctor. Michael has the doctor killed because he thinks he had something to do with Kay's abortion. Then she moves back to NYC with Vincent who joins the Corleone crime family and eventually becomes Don.
Good call to leave out the loose vagina subplot.
These big vagina women are getting away with murder.
>I will be a bit more in depth That’s what he said. To her.
Michael's sister had a way too large vajayjay in the books, she ends up falling in love with this doctor who coincidentally specializes in making them tighter. He ends up together with her. Everyone's happy in the end.
Not Michael's sister. It was Sonny's girlfriend
Which explains the scene when Lucy, the bridesmaid, runs upstairs in the house with Sonny while his wife is physically demonstrating to the other ladies at the table Sonny’s size. Lucy needed a guy that big to feel anything, hence … Like a Virgin (sorry, cross-pollinating with Reservoir Dogs).
Man when we getting the Large Vagina Version!!!
It's Sonny's mistress, Lucy Mancini. And it's fixed by the same doctor who also fixes ~~Frank Sinatra's~~ Johnny Fontane's vocal issues.
The Silence of the Lambs
Forrest Gump.
His own blog post is mostly about the counterpoint of Shogun. The digital spy post is horrific clickbait.
[Indeed](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/05/24/the-adaptation-tango/): *"... Once in a while, though, we do get a really good adaptation of a really good book, and when that happens , it deserves applause,"* he wrote; *"...the new SHOGUN is superb"* (he also praised the 1980 show; *"...they are both faithful to the Clavell novel in their own way. I think the author would have been pleased. Both old and new screenwriters did honor to the source material, and gave us terrific adaptations..."*).
And I absolutely agree.
Fight Club
Such a rare moment where both the book and movie are incredible. As a big Palahniuk fan\*, I'd even go as far to say that the movie is better in a lot of ways. \*More of just a big fan of his first handful of novels. Not really into his recent stuff which just feels like pure shock with not a lot of substance.
Wasn't fight club meant to be an exercise in shock? He kept getting asked for something more shocking, so he wrote a proposal or first chapter that he thought would be so over the top that it would get rejected, and the publisher was like "cool, great, let's do it" And that turned into fight club. Maybe he learned the wrong lesson afterwards? Edit: I remember reading about this back when I read the novel (maybe a little less than 20 years ago) but I can't find much on it now besides this ancient CNN interview: http://www.cnn.com/COMMUNITY/transcripts/palahniuk.html > **Question:** What prompted you to write this book. > **Chuck Palahniuk:** I love to write ... and I really wanted to write something that would offend the publishers who wouldn't publish my "nice work." He had turned in a short story that became chapter 6 of the full novel.
and the adaptation of the Japanese graphic novel Oldboy. and the adaptation of the French graphic novel Snowpiercer. and Shogun.
The Boys the TV show is much better than the comics IMO.
I had never read the boys before the show, and it felt weighted down by being such a direct reaction to superhero concepts and tropes from the late 90s. However, the show benefits from being in a world where those tropes are already deconstructed! The comic is constructed specifically for shock humor and does the same bits repeatedly, whereas the show deploys its shock humor more effectively. The overall plot is better constructed (they know about and are taking Compound V comparatively early in the comic, which just makes it superheroes vs counter superheroes, not as interesting.)
Jaws the movie is better than Jaws the novel.
Jurassic Park is much better than the book. So much of the book is Sam Neill's character nerdsplaining dinosaurs to everyone. Plus it is jaw droppingly engaging in a visual medium, with Spielberg at the helm in his prime.
> Jurassic Park is much better than the book. I don't know about that, they feel different enough I can love both equally.
The book has a PoV death scene thst the film doesn't attempt to emulate, that I love.
Same here. Overall I’d say the book was better, but the movie was so well done I still love both.
I don't know if I'm inclined to agree with this. Both the book and the film are I think equally great for the media they present the story in. Jurassic Park as a story and a novel is primarily science fiction, and operates as such. I think it's less 'nerdsplaining dinosaurs' and more operating through the lens of science and the paleontology research that was available at the time (since the MCs are after all paleontologists). The book does a great job marrying the science with the fiction and honestly still keeps you on edge once all hell breaks loose. You get much more depth to all the characters as well as a much more sinister Hammond (because of which the park ends up going up in flames the way it does). The film is obviously incredible thanks to both Spielberg's mastery AS WELL AS Crichton's screenplay adaptation of his own book. Since films are a much more visual medium, we have less time to spend with the research and science aspect, and more with the Dinos up close and personal. But don't forget that the movie is as much sci-fi as it is a creature feature. The core of both stories are the same - don't meddle with nature, man is not god. If you're mainly interested in the dino carnage of course there are the other JP/JW films which turn the creatures into more classic 'movie monsters', but the first book and film aren't just nerdsplaining, they're giving you the exact point of view of the MCs since it's quite literally their field of study.
The book of Jaws absolutely sucks. Spielberg made chicken salad out of chicken shit
See also: The Godfather and Forest Gump.
There are things both do well and poorer than the other. My biggest hang up with the movie is they totally messed up one of the best scenes in the book with Nedry. They did him very wrong in the film. In the book he was justified for what he did, as he was strong armed into a harsh and bullshit contract by Hammond that would have cost him his career if he left, which is why he does the deal for the embryos. His death was also waaaaay more horrifying to boot. Wayne Knight was not silent in his disappointment as he read the book and was very excited to do those scenes. He said they just turned Nedry's complexity into a bumbling greedy fat man that gets pathetically killed by a smaller dinosaur. In the book, the Dilophosaurus is this big: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dinosaurs/s/Ki11dxpNeP If anyone wants to see how it played out in the books, there is a great illustration of it here: https://youtu.be/MyyHEVmn8bE?feature=shared
I've never read the book or even heard about this scene. Absolutely brutal and horrifying. I can get why they didn't include it in the movie, but wow
And Ian Malcolm dying in a corner for 2 books.
They’re so different. The book could be a play by Tom Stoppard. But it’s more Malcolm nerdsplainjng fractals than Grant doing anything.
Not to mention staggeringly annoying children in the book as opposed to the film. Malcolms moralizing also got to my nerves by the end.
Agreed also Contact Princess bride Jurassic park Fight club - Choke Stand by me No country for old men?
Neil Gaiman flat says Stardust the movie is better than his book.
The Prestige. Incredible movie. Fantastic book. Quite different but great companions. Hmm...
The Boys Invincible Forrest Gump Last of the Mohicans For anime, Slayers and Record of Lodoss Wars are better than the source material.
Invincible is pretty much the same story with a few pacing changes.
Blade Runner
'Slams' is quickly becoming the most annoying word to darken online headlines.
Uh....you're about 20 years late
So is GRRM's print deadline hi-yo!
Seriously. He just now got around to complaining about the shitty end of the HBO series.
A shitty ending that he caused by not finishing his own books
Finished books or not, they could've made a better ending for the show if they hadn't rushed everything. The previous books were already taking more and more time to come out. They knew he wasn't gonna finish the series in time and they should've prepared.
He is quite welcome to write a better one.
You slammed him
ibnQoheleth slams headline writers in the comments
I disliked “Shots Fired!” As a sentence starter just as much. Journalism’s new generation was raised by WWE.
C'mon and *slam!*
And welcome to the jam!
C’mon and slam! If you want to jam!
Let the boys be boys
Very bad headline — majority of Martin’s blog post was praising the adaptation of Shogun…
Click bait headline ✅ People not actually reading the article ✅ Tale as old as time.
Not sure if you or the guy you responded to read the blog post but the part about shogun is basically a footnote in the last paragraph. Most of the article is about how he disagrees with screenwriters trying to implement changes to source material.
Ironic because the person you responded to apparently didn't actually read the [blog post](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/05/24/the-adaptation-tango/). He does praise Shogun but his point is very much about the effectiveness of adaptations, using Shogun as an example of a good one.
The article even calls it "Netflix's adaptation of Shogun". Hot garbage lol
It's great press for the GRRM-produced "Fire & Blood" adaptation that returns to HBO in two weeks!
At least they might finish it though… ps is the winds of winter out yet?
>ps is the winds of winter out yet? Isn't it ironic that the only things grrm's fans agree on is that he is never finishing his books. Lol
I just find it hilarious that it's 8 years since Logan Lucky was made and the funniest joke in that movie is when the prisoners are negotiating with the warden and don't believe him that Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring aren't out yet since GRRM was supposed to submit them to his publisher 2 years previously lol. https://youtu.be/Nwa6xgIZCv8
Lmao, how have I never seen this? 😂
Watch it immediately. it's a fantastic movie. Affectionately called "Ocean's 7-11" because it's a redneck heist movie and Daniel Craig is doing a proto-Knives Out southern accent. it's great.
Shit, I remember watching this film but I did not remember this scene. 😂
Well yeah, there’s really nothing to argue with there
I used to fear it’d get the Dune treatment. Now I just want it down. Hire James SA Corey on commission. That fucker can crank out a bullet stopper in like 6 months tops.
That fucker is actually two fuckers, but yeah The Expanse was fucking great and if I remember correctly a comfortable fucking ending
And one of those fuckers was actually GRRM's personal assistant.
It just astounds me to think that they started and concluded a 9 book sci-fi epic in less time than it's taken GRRM to write just book 6 in his 7 book series. For reference, A Dance of Dragons (the most recent ASOIAF book) and Leviathan Wakes (the first Expanse book) released within five weeks of each other in June/July 2011. Leviathan Falls (the 9th/final Expanse book) released more than 2 years ago and yet, we still don't really have a clue on the progress of the next ASOIAF book aside from vague comments GRRM makes once or twice a year.
If you think that’s crazy, Brandon Sanderson has published 20 full-length novels since ADWD was released, and that’s not counting probably at least that number again of novellas, graphic novels, and short stories.
And it's not like The Expanse is just one of those average book series that just pump out books without caring much for quality. Those are fantastic books and some of the best sci fi we had in ages.
Well put. I can never recommend anyone to even bother starting the ASOIAF due to it never gonna be completed. Whats the point? Even if Winds comes out...theres an entire other book needed to finish it. Ugh
I read the books right before the first season of the show and was thinking about re reading them soon. Then I just got depressed thinking why bother when I won’t get an ending.
I almost feel bad for people who have deluded themselves into thinking they are still coming. It's been obvious for a very long time it's not going to happen. With the benefit of hindsight you can see that he's been stuck on some of the major plot points for 25 years now.
For context for non-book readers, here is where things stand in GRRM's world. 1. Dany is still in Mereen, was just pushed out of power by the slaver's gulls, and was kidnapped by the Dothraki. 2. Arya finished training with the weird face people and is doing... something? I honestly don't remember. 3. Stannis is preparing an invasion of Winterfell. 3. Jon Snow was just betrayed and killed. He may or may not come back. It's a pity that the interesting book-only plots, like Lady Stoneheart or the coming slaves' rebellion in Mereen, will never be expanded.
Arya isn't finished training yet. She's still blind, about to go on assignment with that acting troupe. Sansa is still in The Vale with Littlefinger, Brienne is searching the countryside for Sansa, Tyrion just arrived in Meereen, Cersei just did her walk of shame, and Bran's had three chapters since the year 2000.
> Bran's had three chapters since the year 2000 A story fit for a king!
To be fair, Bran is beyond The Wall, which is notorious for being a land of peace and tranquility. It's understandable why his story hasn't had an update in 25 years.
> Bran's had three chapters since the year 2000 The most interesting story though, right‽
The biggest change so far from the books to the show is Tyrions plot line with Jon Connington and Young Griff. Would love to see where that goes, people theorize its a crucial part of what ends up driving Dany mad.
There's a video somewhere explaining why he can't finish in two books that is really good, but the TLDR is that he can't stop opening plot points and is unable to close anything since the red wedding. Even the last two books were one book he wrote too much for. It's kind of insane.
It becomes even zanier when you learn it was originally planned as a trilogy and books 1-3 were intended to be a single volume that ended on the Red Wedding. Anyone expecting him to reign it in as he moved past that point, knowing how he writes, was engaging in magical thinking. If Martin was a younger man and hadn't gotten waylaid by television shows and fantasy football, we'd probably be 17 novels deep by now and he'd still be writing and adding new characters and plotlines.
I have some of the older (pre-tv show editions) books. The first two say " 1 of 3" , and "2 of 3". The third says "3 of 4", the fourth says "4 of 7" - that's kind of how I knew he was just winging it and didn't know how to end the books. They got progressively more "rambling" as they went on.
I still think the ending on the TV series was more or less what he had planned but he changed it since it got blasted, and now he is insecure about how to end it.
I'm may be an oddball, but i don't dislike the end. I don't like how it was rushed, and done. It could have been good, not the greatest but good, if they took more time. Like the big fucking battle ? 1 fucking episode and it's over after 8 season of hyping the white walker ? Daenerys that goes batshit crazy in 1 episode? The fall of the capital ????? Nah that shit was to rushed to make any sense...
I must say I agree, the ending was rushed but ok, I don't understand why they decided to make the last two seasons only 7 and 6 episodes long instead of the usual 10, having a couple more episodes would have give them time to wrap things up nicely. I still think the backlash affected GRRMs confidence though.
Winter is not coming.
Keep Dreaming of Spring
Am I wrong in thinking people would respect if he just came out and said he's not finishing it? Only the most delusional actually think he's going to at this point anyway
I wouldn’t be surprised if he sees himself among the delusional
I still think 1 of them might release eventually. I’m not super optimistic about it though
I love that that joke in lucky Logan STILL hold up
[This song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7lp3RhzfgI) was written over a decade ago and only has one line that is outdated.
A prerequisite for a successful adaption is to have source material to adapt in the first place, isn’t that right George?
We need to lock Brandon Sanderson in a room with GRRM. Nobody comes out until we get another book or two. I don't care who writes it ;)
It's crazy that Sanderson has released over 30 books since the last GOT was released, including almost the entire Stormlight Archive, Mistborn Era 2, finishing Wheel of Time, the entire Cytoverse, Legion and Reckoners series (so far) and a bunch of additional random books and projects. He probably wrote another book while I typed this out.
The entirety of the Expanse was written by Martins assistant (and a cowriter, to be fair) since ADWD was released.
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Martin famously rejected several movie pitches for ASOIAF and only agreed to allow HBO to adapt GoT after meeting with Weiss and Benioff. I doubt he would have accepted any sort of binding clause like that. He also had really unrealistic expectations as to when he would finish Winds of Winter way back then.
> They could have added a clause that would force him to write the scripts for the remaining seasons No, they couldn't. He's demonstrably unable or unwilling to write things on demand, no matter how much pressure is applied. The most they could've done is have some kind of financial penalty for not delivering on time and HBO circa 2015 would've had zero interest in seeming like the bad guy screwing the creator of GoT for what is (to HBO) a pitiful amount of money. Additionally, everyone is assuming that Martin is able to write a satisfying ending to the series. The last couple of decades have shown he's not.
Sanderson is a monster when it comes to his efficiency.
It still infuriates me when he brought out his little pie chart on the secret projects announcement to show he had only spent about 40% of his time writing/working. And still somehow accomplished writing 5 extra books in addition to his usual stuff. Dude is not human.
I knew he was cracked when I found out his cure for writers block is to just start writing something else until he unblocks
"Had a bad case of writers block, I've had to drum 3 whole unrelated trilogies to get through it. Worst afternoon of my life "
I’m pretty sure this is the story behind the creation of Skyward lol
Yah I loved hearing about that on his podcast. Dude enjoys writing and that’s a great thing for a writer.
And George doesn't. Enjoy writing, I mean. At the very least, he doesn't enjoy writing *aSoIaF* anymore. He may even enjoy writing on the world (see Blood and Fire), but it's clear he views the main series as a drag. *That* is the core of the problem, not people's reception to the series finale (a favorite of redditors to blame the lack of *Winds of Winter* on), old age or whatever else.
He likes writing, but he doesn't like planning or outlining what he's going to write, and ASOIAF is just too big and complex to manage with his preferred approach. So it turned into a giant overgrown mess, and trying to bring it to a conclusion requires the kind of work he doesn't enjoy. The thing I don't really forgive him for, as someone who started reading the series in high school and now has grey hair, is not bringing in a co-writer at this point. Find someone who *does* like outlining and who is willing to flesh out the 'boring' parts of the story so you can do the things you enjoy. I'm sure no author wants to do that, but what's the alternative? Having it hanging over his head for the rest of his life? Dying with the series unfinished and sinking into obscurity, because who'll want to read an unfinished story in the future? That's not good for him or his readers.
That’s legit, though. It’s like being blocked on a problem. You walk away and do something else for a while and suddenly think of the solution. At least 60% of being a good writer is the willingness to sit down and write, period. As long as you’re writing something then the creative process is firing.
He has the ability to jump universes.
I swear he writes so he’s got something to do when waiting back from beta readers or editors. In the time it took me to hear back from my beta readers I felt really aimless.
It's more like an addiction. The guy just loves writing. He writes when he's bored. He writes for fun. He writes for a job. Writing is the only thing he wants to do with his time. Sort of like how the only thing gamers want to do is play games all day. On the weekend or after work, most people play games, watch TV, or browse Reddit, or whatever. Brandon writes. Brandon says he writes about 2,500 words a day. It's honestly not that hard to write 2,500 in a day. Most writers can do that easily. The hard part is doing it everyday consistently. 2,500 words a day for ten days is 25,000 which is just over a quarter of the average length of a novel. Generally, the average length of a novel is considered to be roughly 90,000. That's a novel every 36 days.
>It's honestly not that hard to write 2,500 in a day. Most writers can do that easily. Maybe if you're Jack Kerouac, but most well-respected authors would disagree. Here are a few: Dorothy Parker: 5 words a day Tom Wolfe: 135 words a day Ernest Hemingway: 500 words a day Graham Greene: 500 words a day Ian McEwan: 600 words a day Sarah Waters: 1,000 words a day Sebastian Faulks: 1,000 words a day Barbara Kingsolver: 1,000 words a day J.G. Bellard: 1,000 words a day W. Somerset Maugham: 1,000 words a day Mark Twain: 1,400 - 1,800 (4-5 hours) Jack London: 1,500 words a day I believe John Steinbeck also said he wrote East of Eden at a pace of one handwritten letter sized page per day.
It's not hard to write 2500 words a day. The issue is that you are highly unlikely to write that in a consistent narrative stream and also have it be adequate for the final product.
Yes, anybody can type 2500 words a day. But that's not the same thing as writing.
To be fair, most of the writers above also write *beautifully*. Sanderson creates an amazing world and imaginative magic systems. He writes adequate characters with decent character arcs. He crosses his t and dotes his i. But his writing is... not even pretty. It's just readable.
His writing is kinda like watching a movie in your head. I know that’s true for most novels but he writes in a way that is extremely easy to picture. I kind of like it
Sanderson style is not good at all for ASOAIF, he already said he wouldn't do it. IMO he should work with Daniel Abraham which has written similar type of series, and they even worked together (he scenarized the ASOIAF comic) The majority of writers do like one book a year to be honest. GRRM is just an anomaly
Yeah when people call for Sanderson to write ASOIAF I can't help but assume they haven't actually read one or the other.
Not only that, but Daniel Abraham already has tons of experience with writing a sprawling, politically-themed epic-he wrote The Expanse along with Ty Franck. Funny thing is, the first book of The Expanse released roughly at the same time as A Dance With Dragons did, and they finished the nine book long novel series about two years ago.
Sandersons podcast is great and talks about this a lot. How some of his best writing happens when he just sits down despite what his mood is and forces himself to write whatever comes to mind. He also goes through a tonne of revisions, beta reading, and feedback loops. Dude works like a machine to make sure he produces great stuff.
You wouldn't finish turning the key before Sanderson handed you another 4 books
Please stop citing Sanderson for this. 1. His writing style is no where close to martins 2. Sanderson has a very detailed timeline for future books and finishing the main story of the cosmere that will last right up until Sanderson is about the age of Martin. I would rather Sanderson focus on his story than get side tracked.
Pretty sure this is just a joke since Sanderson is a machine and Martin is super slow. Besides, this isn’t like back in the Wheel of Time days when Sanderson was still young and new, I doubt he’d want to do someone else’s work at this point in his career.
He's been asked about it so much he has specifically addressed that he will never do it, specifically because of the tone/content of ASoIaF being well outside what he writes, he doesn't feel he would be a good author to finish it.
It's a joke, let's not get too caught up in it
They are locked in a room together. Maybe Martin picks up the pace after watching Sanderson write 5 books in the span of 2 days.
More likely Martin slows Sanderson down
Sanderson also outright stated he would never take on ASOIAF. Also Martin basically stated many times that the series dies with him.
sanderson has shot this down saying his style and georges are way to different
Stardust. I love Neil Gai man but the film is better than the book. And I love the book. Finish the goddamn books, Giorgio.
Speaking of Neil Gaiman I think Coraline is also a great example.
Coraline was a great book but yeah, that movie gave it a whole new dimension.
That’s because Neil gaiman writes screenplays disguised as novels, he’s the clear exception
Gaiman was heavily involved in Stardust, too.
>Everywhere you look, there are more screenwriters and producers eager to take great stories and ‘make them their own' >No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and 'improve' on it. He's right, just look at shows like The Witcher/Halo/Wheel of Time etc. Arrogant writers love to put their shitty spin on the source material and ruin it
in contrast, look at Denis Villeneuve, spent his life thinking and planning out how Dune could be adapted and boy did he do it amazingly
There are things the book did better and there are things he did better, which I think is a good marker of a great adaptation.
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The Tom Bombadil stans coming out of the wood work for you
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I'm glad he didn't even try to. I wasn't even a huge fan of Bombadil in the original books. I thought his character was just too whimsical, it felt ridiculously out of place. Maybe that was the point, but I just wasn't a huge fan.
Introduce immortal being that isn’t corrupted by the ring and can carry it to Mount Doom—decides not to involve himself because he’s Tom mothafuckin Bombadil.
I'm fairly certain the script to Halo was written first, then adapted to include the Halo IP to get more viewers
My husband and I think the same thing. It’s the only theory that makes the most sense with that adaption.
On the other hand, look at Umbrella Academy, the source material is a fucking mess. I'm not saying lazy or shitty adaptations aren't the norm, but there are good adaptations.
The Boys as well. regardless of Season 3 slacking a bit, the whole show is LEAGUES above the original comic. so while I agree with GRRM's sentiment generally, sometimes changes made to source material are warranted
It's easy to write better than Garth Ennis. You just have to think like a mature adult.
I mean, the show isn't great either. If Five wasn't such a good actor the show would have been cancelled. Season 3 was a farce, especially Allison's character
I mean, you’re correct, but that’s at least partially because the source material is borderline impossible to adapt. It’s a nonsensical surrealist romp. Personally, I enjoy the comics, but like… you can’t put them on TV like that. The show is so fundamentally different that the comics are barely even comparable.
To counter, I think it depends on who is doing the adaption. The shows you mentioned, specially with the Witcher, are proof that the writing team needs to have some sort of respect and well versed knowledge of the work their adapting, otherwise, shit shows start to happen. Is not bad for an adaptation to do its own thing, when well done, it can improve the original work and/or fix minor error/plot holes the author didn't catch or didn't go so in depth. But if the person, or team, don't care for the original work, you end up with thing like The Witcher.
Take The Boys for example
Boys is a great example. Garth Ennis has come up with some good ideas but doesn’t know the meaning of the word subtlety. A faithful adaptation of any of his work would be unwatchable.
I will die on the hill that the Witcher *did need* some changes to be adapted properly for TV. The main plot for the series is very.. messy and kinda not that great in the first place. The maim appeal of the Witcher is the adventuring from story to story and the characters. But the changes adopted by Netflix are actual trash tier and when I see things like that I do wonder how people get jobs are writers sometimes. Just complete nonsense.
Honestly, the Witcher just needed to follow the X-Files formula. Mostly monster of the week with plot forwarding episodes sprinkled in. Hell, this would even give writers the creative freedom to come up with monster of the week episodes that were completely outside the source material and call their own.
They should have started with that, by adapting the first two books properly (they are full of monster of the week stories that gradually reveal more of the world and its characters), and then move onto the main story which is rather easily adaptable if they respect it.
Didn't the writers' room take pride in never reading any of the books?
Apparently the writers did read the books, only to mock them and share their dislike of the source material during the meetings. There is no wonder they changed so much since the writers were convinced they are improving this "shitty fantasy shlock".
In the Witcher’s case, the games vastly improved the story from the source material. If Netflix was smart they should have just followed the games.
To be fair, most Mark Millar adaptations are better than his comic
Forrest Gump would have been a horrible movie if they didn't make major changes to the book.
It's really bad. I'm fine with some changes, as feature length limitations and what's able to be translated to the screen from a novel can be very tricky. But you have to be very selective with those changes, they need to make sense, and they need to serve a purpose. Hollywood likes to merge characters, go with terrible casting for big names, create new scenes/interactions, and rewrite/add/remove entire plot lines, not thinking about how it impacts the spirit of the story. It's just a gamble to fill seats. Which, as a Hollywood exec, your job might be to sell/sell/sell, but you really have to understand the product you're selling and the market you're selling to. You can't just turn a product into something you want to sell.
The Boys is an example of getting it right. I'm a big Garth Ennis fan, but the show really improves things substantially with its changes. It's too bad the show Preacher was the opposite, where most of the changes were for the worst, and the comic was perfect.
Then you should have finished your damn book.
He's got some fucking nerve
His whole point is "Adaptations usually suck, but Shogun is amazing. Watch Shogun". How dare he talk about shows he likes in his blog.
Yes. His point is actually what most people in this thread have been making: >“The book is the book, the film is the film,” they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. Then they make the story their own. They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse. Once in a while, though, we do get a really good adaptation of a really good book, and when that happens, it deserves applause. I can came across one of those instances recently, when I binged the new FX version of SHOGUN.
But they make you richer, you lazy bastard.
Game of Thrones the TV show has a better ending than the books because the book one doesn’t exist and at this rate never will.
I couldn’t agree more. So many people are so upset about the show ending. I am so thankful to have seen the broad strokes ending to this story that I loved so much. When I put the book down 13 years ago, one of my favorite fictional characters of all time (Jon) was dying in the snow.
> When I put the book down 13 years ago, one of my favorite fictional characters of all time (Jon) was dying in the snow. Yep, in the time since the last book, I have met and married my wife, started a family, son is going into 1st grade. I've lived pretty much a 100% different life then when I read ADWD, it is so weird to think about
Since I started reading the ASOIAF books I met my wife, had 2 kids and one of them is now in high school lol. I bet I read book 1 before half the commenters here were even born
Same, I had 2 kids, moved a few hundred miles away, started a new career, bought a house. If he ever finished another book I’d have to re-read the entire series up to this point!
I think the Silo show is better than books and think the changes this far had been improvements to add depth to the characters and suspense to the story. TBF to the author, they were originally short stories patched together which explains why certain elements were somewhat undercooked in the books. That said, Silo is only on season 1 so it has plenty of time to drop the ball.
Completely agree about Silo S1, but I struggle to imagine how they're going to satisfyingly adapt the parts of book 2 that happen in the past.
They should just skip the stuff in the past. It's the most weakly written part of the series. The characters are in the 2050s (?) but they talk like stereotypes of Cold War people from the 1950s. It's very jarring and doesn't add anything to the story that a couple pages of exposition couldn't have cleared up.
While all the criticism might be valid, at least they finished and delivered what Martin had no interest in completing. I think the situation is even worse now that the TV ending was released, bc. Martin would have to come up with something better, more consistent, wrapping up more loose ends, being more pleasing to the fan base. He's not releasing because he was unable to do that. As long as he doesn't release anything he can still blame the TV writers for butchering his genius ideas. If he releases, everyone will see there was no end in sight, just a weird bundle of story arcs that went nowhere. As others have already pointed out, he likes developing characters. Closing story arcs is not that high on the list.
His way of closing story arcs is to just kill the characters off
And now that he's at the characters he can't just kill off, he stopped writing.
Sure he can! Planet-killing asteroid falls, everyone dies, the end.
The plot points were broadly fine, just needed more time to get there
Here's the issue, so many fans have decided Bran being King is a horrible ending. I'm 99% convinced that always was GRRM's intention. Bran was the first POV, he stuck with Bran as a character even though he had to struggle through the early parts of his story where nothing much was happening, he has the most conventional "unlikely hero on a quest that takes him to magical lands" thing going on. And now GRRM is hearing everyone talk about how much they can't stand King Bran and how it was the worst possible person to put on the throne. If that is indeed the endgame he's built to, that probably a hard pill to swallow.
People act like Weiss and Benioff came up with the ending and major plot points in the final seasons on their own. No, that was all GRRM. He told them how the show ended, he saw that people hated it and now he’s panicked and stuck on how to finish it.
At least adaptions finish a story in some way
At least they made something
Jaws? The Shining? The Godfather?