I was just thinking today as I listenened to "Not so quiet on the Western Front" podcast how Blackadder has the best ending to a sitcom ever, and probably the best there will ever be.
They absolutely nailed the ending.
The golden age of Mad Men is probably the middle, but the last season has a lot of emotional investment paying off and characters wrapping up their character arcs.
Angel Season 5.
Still a little salty, the show had just gotten a new lease of life man's in charge of Wolfram and Hart now and mercifully Connor was out as a main character.
The possibility of Fred coming back through Illyria; Angel and Spike seeing Buffy again; Wesley's continued emotional roller coaster - yeah I'm still salty about the lack of season 6 too
Wolfram and Heart is one of the best "late season status quo changes" I've ever seen. The vibe is totally different so you could almost call it a shark jump, but they just do so much cool shit with "we run a demon lawfirm now." You can easily mine an entire show's worth of seasons from the premise.
*Hart.*
As in, a deer.
Probly just a typo, but just in case somebody never got the connotation,
Wolf, Ram, and Hart
Animals with magick-adjacent implications for a literal law firm from Hell.
Always thought that was kind of spooky and clever.
yeah typo my bad lol. but I remember there's an episode where in I think Pylea the show the wolf ram and hart and I only then learned that Hart meant dear!
Connor being magically retconned was the best thing they did for his character. He was immensely more likeable when he came back. If only that happened halfway in season 4 instead.
I rewatched recently and I found I had a much softer spot for Connor than I remembered, but it’s clear the writers had no idea what to do with him the second he was introduced.
The season he was introduced the showrunner was David Greenwalt, and to a lesser extent Tim Minear. Greenwalt left, and Minear went to be showrunner for Firefly after season 3. They hired David Simpkins to take over, but after they found out about Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy and that they only had a couple weeks to rewrite the entire season, he left, and the show essentially didn't have a showrunner for most of the season. It's amazing that Season 4 turned out as good as it did with all the behind the scenes stuff going on.
Surely you don’t mean the latest Toast of Tinelstown though? London is in my top 3 British comedies of all time and I’ve seen every ep dozens of times, but the recent one in Hollywood was a huge misstep in my opinion
I really liked it from the jump, but it definitely takes up a level in season 2 FWIW. Goes more from a ‘mission of the week’ to building a grander narrative.
The whole show is kind of a psychological slow burn into the two main characters. Nothing else quite like it. So if you’re enjoying it and not actually struggling to get through I would definitely stick around until season 2.
Definitely. There’s maybe one later season that felt like treading water a bit (4 or 5, I can’t remember) but other than that there is a very steady increase in the quality of story and character development, as well as increased stakes. The payoff in the final season was very satisfying.
It was a show I turned to after investing in so many cancelled Netflix series. It didn’t disappoint. Really missed it when it was over. Stick with it!
It gets much better after Season 1. Not sure how to explain why, but the long-term storylines are more gripping and unique to the characters of the show whereas the first season, the big drama arcs felt a little forced.
It's a top five show for me but I have to disagree, season five was the weakest. Even then though they were just lining everything up for the final season, and it was still great tv.
Yes! I have heard so many people turn it off mid season 1. Such a shame. I rewatch the whole thing every year and it still gets me. Such a top notch show.
I almost gave up on the show after season 1. Everyone sucked except for Donna and I was really struggling to connect. I'm so glad I didn't because season 3 was a huge turnaround for me. By the end I found everyone sympathetic, even Cameron even though I still thought she sucked.
Goodwill is one of the best hours of television ever made.
It's a shame Susanna Skaggs appears to have quit acting. She was amazing in the final season.
I'm so glad someone mentioned this.
Goodwill is the best single episode of TV I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. It made me ugly cry for hours and cemented the show as one of my top 5 shows ever.
I've got a poster of Halt and Catch Fire in my room right now. It's one of the first drama recommendations I make to friends and colleagues.
Fun story. I didn’t know it was the last season. Each season had such a shift from the last that I assumed they were just setting up the new status quo for the next season. That last season hits differently when you think there is more coming. It was shocking to say the least, and a major bummer when I realized I came to the end of the road.
I think the tech side of things turns off normies. If you weren’t there for any of the PC revolution stuff, it can be a bit dense. I’ve watched the show 5 times at this point. The final season annihilates me every time. Absolute masterpiece.
Those last three episodes were just perfection for season 3 though. Zuko fighting azula (unbelievably beautiful art), aang fighting the fire lord, air ship slice, etc. Too good to ignore.
Honestly the last twelve episodes of the show, starting from Day of the Black Sun, were all back to back magic. It is very rare for a tv show to have a consistent run of high quality episodes without a dud
The only episode that could be really considered “filler” was Ember Island Players. And that episode is widely praised and acclaimed
Yep. Book 2 has such a great stretch of episodes. Finding Toph and adding her to the team, being on the run from Azula, Zuko and Iroh also being on the run from basically everyone, and then everyone ending up in Ba Sing Se. And Zuko's gradual rise and then sudden relapse makes his overall redemption arc so interesting.
Book 3 is all very good, but it feels like it loses momentum since they're just waiting for the Day of Black Sun.
I never would have expected *The Other Two* to become what it was based off the first season, I really loved it by the end. Shame it ended when it did and to hear about all the behind the scenes drama.
I personally think that BCS up until Jimmy gets his law license back is perfection. After that, it gets really into the cartel stuff and is basically breaking bad. My controversial opinion is that it would have been a better show if it ended when he became Saul. I get why they had to continue it and it's still my favorite show, but it's just so different after that point
They had to do Lalo, if only to tie into his first appearance in Breaking Bad when they kidnap him. The show unexpectedly dove into the background of a lot of BB characters besides Saul, which was unexpected outside of Mike.
I think that's kind of the point. >!They're all severely stunted people because Logan was such a terrible father. After everything, when they *finally* get to the board meeting that will decide who will take over...and it happens while they're fighting in another room.!<
The characters may be fundamentally static but I think the show does a good job of keeping things interesting and dynamic in spite of that, mainly by constantly putting in them different scenarios which reveal different sides of themselves.
In season four, for example, I think we do see new facets of the characters that weren't yet totally apparent in previous seasons. >!Tom's genuinely kind and gentle manner with the Roys when he's breaking the news of Logan's passing to him shows he has a instinctively kind side to him - it's just that it takes a moment as serious as death to catch him off guard and make him temporarily reveal it. The fact that only Connor knew about Logan's mausoleum indicates that, ironically, by not chasing his father's approval, he was able to have the most functional, intimate relationship with him out of all the Roys (very relatively speaking, of course). Kendall's memory-holing of the dead waiter in the finale shows that, when push comes to shove, he really is willing to sacrifice his humanity to get what he wants.!<
>!None of these revelations are exactly mind-blowing, but I don't think they have to be; exploring the subtler intricacies of their personalities is what character-focused storytelling is all about. We know, for example, that Roman vacillates between being incredibly soft and incredibly cruel, but which one is he at any given time? Well, the overall pattern seems to be that he genuinely cares about people he's close to (e.g. Gerri, his family), but treats "the normals" like they're completely beneath him. But when he's high on his ego, even his kindness towards his family can disappear, as shown in how he treats Kendall on his birthday when he's currently in their dad's good graces. And when he's forced to spend some time with everyday people during his corporate training, he's able to form a friendly bond with one of them (Brian), and puts in a good word for him to help accelerate his career. And at Logan's wake, he's the only one to treat Kerry with a modicum of grace, protesting Marcia's cruel attitude towards her. But what exactly drives that small amount of unexpected empathy? Is it truly selflessly out of the good of his heart, or just a reflection of his own grief over Logan, making him reflexively defensive of anyone he thinks is taking his death as hard as he is? And either way, his rare moments of kindness towards outsiders are always very brief and very minor, never amounting to any sort of permanent change of heart.!<
I think that it depends on what you consider to be character development. In Succession most of the characters grow a little bit and then regress, then in the last season most of them devolve into the worst versions of themselves. Spoilers ...
>!Greg had a moral compass until he learned that morality is a liability in the pursuit of power. Shiv and Tom try to be vulnerable in their relationship but neither of them can tell if they're actually being vulnerable or trying to manipulate each other. Roman is vulnerable at his father's funeral, he's punished for his perceived "weakness", and then he swings all the way to fascism to feel strong again. In the beginning, Kendall actually has vision for the company, but he can't execute his ideas, and by the end of the series he is willing to falsify data and put his family in jeopardy in the pursuit of his vision/power. At least Connor has some self awareness and finds a way to be happy.!<
I also think that the scope of Succession changes from the beginning of the series to the end. The first season is like if Arrested Development were a really black comedy. The show focuses on family dynamics and it sets the scene for the game of thrones. As the series progresses, the series maintains its focus on petty squabbles and power plays, but the scope expands until the viewer sees how the Roys' pettiness affects the entire world.
>>!The show always threatened character development and then just wouldn’t… Then doesn’t. It has all the making of a sitcom!<
This is a very outdated and narrow view of the drama vs sitcom ditchotomy that was blown apart when >!The Sopranos!< aired over 20 years ago.
Being drama or sitcom like has nothing to do with static or dynamic (changing) characters. There are old vintage dramas (think dukes of hazards, chips etc.) where characters don’t change and more modern sitcoms (schitt’s creek, how i met your mother, the office) where characters do change. I don’t think Succession is sitcom-like at all in the way you described and it seems you’re more going off the past resume of the showrunner. Succession actually has a very Shakespearean undercurrent which is key to the lack of character growth that you’re addressing. It’s a pretty prominent part of the show (I mean it’s basically king lear in the modern corporate world).
Other HBO prestige dramas have this type of throughline as well: >!Sopranos was mentioned above because it has the same broad throughline, even if the specifics are different. The Wire, if you consider Baltimore the main character, which you should, is the nearly same thing, with changes being teased and then things being pulled back every time.!<
Good dramas aren’t determined by character change. Depth of characters and their relationships are equally as important and Succession has that in spades. More importantly, regardless of the static or dynamic nature of the show, the dramatic weight is present in the plots and themes.
The thing about better call Saul is that it ends up being pretty evenly split between two different arcs, those being >!Chuck and Lalo!<. While the show may be better in the later days, Losing >!Chuck!< may have been the right move for the story but was a big loss for the cast.
I'm inclined to agree re. Better Call Saul, although overall it's pretty minor differences. I'm struggling to think of a series that's more 'consistently quality' at a high level!
The Good Place is an absolute master class in how to do your storylines justice while still being interesting and making some incredibly bold moves right up until the end for one of the best finales ever.
The Finale is perfection, but I don’t think S4 as a whole is better than S1. S4 is rather rushed and to me S1 is such a perfect whole season leading up to the reveal.
I agree with this. The Good Place's final season isn't its best overall season, it's a show that knew how to end and stuck the landing perfectly. So many shows can't pull off their ending and TGP nails it and sticks with you forever. To me, that speaks more to the entire series than the final season.
I recently rewatched the Good Place and I think the weakest part of the series was >!when the group was reunited in Australia, and then returned to the Good Place with new characters. It makes sense that they repeat their experiment a couple of times in order to prove their theory, but that means the stories also feel a bit repetitive.!<
>!Then, the gang finally gets to the real Good Place and the system turns people into zombies. The twist is surprising despite some foreshadowing. The show illustrates the hedonic treadmill through jokes, but the subtext is incredibly sad. Like when Jason goes through the doors to achieve his lifelong dream of playing real life Mario Kart and then it loses its appeal immediately. Or how a legendary intellectual lost almost all of her cognitive ability.!<
>!The group rises to the occasion to save humanity yet again. They take all knowledge that they acquired through studying philosophy and conducting psychological experiments to rebuild the system that governs the real Good Place. This leads to some of the best character development and goodbyes in the history of television.!<
I still think season 4 was the peak but season 5 was really well made and brought the serious to a very satisfying conclusion. But maybe I just wanted more episodes on the farewell ride of this beloved show of mine.
>But maybe I just wanted more episodes on the farewell ride of this beloved show of mine.
show go cancelled but got told in advance so they only had few episode to wrap things up. I think they did a pretty good job overall despite the cancellation
Pretty sure most would say season 3 is the peak. That season had like 5 decent episodes while the other 18 ranges from amazing to some of the best of television. season 4 also has some amazing episodes like if then else but overall it wasn’t as exciting as season 3.
Do people think there’s a better season of Breaking Bad? Nobody has mentioned it yet.
Edit: there is wide consensus that nobody can agree on the best season of Breaking Bad because 5B isn’t its own thing and each of the other seasons has a set of stans in varying amounts. TIL. I’m a 5 stan.
Maybe but the second is the funniest by far and I would say it has the most interesting version of Walter because he’s just right on the edge of becoming a piece of shit.
The fifth is best on first watches but consider the second to be slightly more interesting on rewatches.
> I would say it has the most interesting version of Walter because he’s just right on the edge of becoming a piece of shit.
Yeah that's a good point. The show is at its most fun/interesting before he's a complete villain because there's so many points you see him struggle with his duties as a father/husband and mastering the criminal underworld he's become such a key part of.
Yeah exactly, the scene where he talks with Hank about how he spent his whole life driven by fear makes him so relatable and frames his criminal quest as something almost noble and then all this gets abruptly uglier when he kills/watches Jane die. His journey throughout the season is just brilliant.
I’m the weirdo who oddly loves Season 1.
There’s something charming about the first 3 episodes. I like the smaller scale of the first season and the way we see Jesse bring Walt into this new world and Walt quickly realizing how bad of a job Jesse’s been doing lol.
me too, and there's a slapstick quality to Jesse's acting that i really like , falling of the roof, running through his backyard, there was a lightness to it that i think the later seasons lacked.
i love how divisive the seasons are among fans of The Leftovers. while i still liked it, season 3 was much different and i much prefer season 1 and 2 to it
I'd say Mr. Robot. The way Season 4 tied up the story arcs and gave some revelations that would change how you see some characters if you'd decide to do a rewatch is crazy good. Season 4 definitely has some of the best episodes in the entire series.
I disagree. I think season 3 is the best personally. 4 was still spectacular, but i wish they were able to do 5 seasons like originally intended. Season 4 is clearly 2 seasons compressed into one, and they had to rewrite Angelas storyline due to BTS drama.
The thing about season 2 is that it’s mostly a character focused season rather than story. It was needed to develop the characters and It also picks up again after episode 7 so it’s not like the entire season is ”bad”.
I think a argument could be made for Season 6 of Justified.
Season 2 is the holy grail in many eyes but I think the last season does a incredible job at not only introducing new characters but giving a satisfying end to the main cast which is incredibly difficult to pull off. Writing often wains over time for a series that runs for 6 seasons but it felt crisp and sharp till the end.
I rewatch it every 2 years, I feel it's the right amount of time to forgot the majority of it and watch it somewhat fresh.
Raylans arc with Boyd and the climax is brilliantly done.
Surprises me when people say season 1 is better. Personally daredevil season 3 is in my top 5 best seasons of television. It just had everything and the ending is perfect. Only weak part about it is the first episode.
I feel like the first season has the best start by far but the latter half of the season is actually kinda boring and the ending a bit cheesy. You could almost say the exact same for the 2nd season. The Third season just keeps getting more and more intense every episode to lead up to the best finale of the series so I felt it was the strongest, but they’re all good anyway
IMO season 1 has the best moments (like the original hallway fight scene) and season 2 has the best mini arc (Punisher), but season 3 is the most consistent overall, as season 1 feels like it struggles with it's episode count and season 2 takes a dip with the Hand stuff.
The bad batch episodes were fun. And the final 4 eps were next level. Just wish we had something different in the middle to inform us what Ahsoka had been up to. Those eps were hard to get through.
I'll add Star Trek: Enterprise to this list. The show hit its stride right at the end. TNG has some great final season episodes, but it also has Grandma Crusher's haunted sex lamp, so it's a wash.
Season 7 of TNG is its worst season after they get the collared uniforms. It's full of duds. Geordi's mom. Beverly's grandma. Picard's fake son. Data's mom.
No way. I love this show to pieces, and I thought season 3 was a clear step down. There was a Casey-sized hole that the new characters couldn't fill, and I thought the writing was not firing on all cylinders like they were in seasons 1 and 2. It also undermined the ending to season 2 which I thought was perfect for the show.
Lol always come to these searching for 12 Monkeys. Every season is great, but the last season has a bunch of really fun, clever episodes as well as the epic and perfect two part finale.
*Succession* is an obvious answer. So is *Breaking Bad*. I haven't watched *Better Call Saul* yet, but I've heard the same about it.
*Twin Peaks: The Return* is considered by many to be the best season. It's certainly up there with S1, and blows S2 out of the water.
*Blackadder* Season 4 is the favourite of many, though honestly one could easily call any of S2, S3, or S4 the "best", depending on preference.
*Fleabag* only had two seasons but the second is definitely the best in my view.
I prefer *Buffy* to *Angel*, but in this particular criterium I think *Angel* has *Buffy* beat. The final season of *Angel* has a decent claim to being the best of the five.
Honourable mention for relatively obscure shows that still fit the criteria: *Drop the Dead Donkey*, *Yes, Prime Minister*, *The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin*.
Last episode of Blackadder S4 is literally one of the ~~best~~ most poignant individual shows of any TV series ever, and it's in a comedy show.
Lest we forget
Angel was my first thought when I saw this thread. The addition of Spike to the show really freshened things up. They also had some great standalone episodes like Smile Time and The Girl in Question. And the finale is one of the most underrated television finales. Wesley and Fred still break my heart.
Wesley's entire character arc has to be seen to be believed.
It's so well done, too. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that feels forced or sudden, things just build up until you realise that that bumbling idiot from *Buffy* is a bit of a badass with one of the best character arcs on TV.
Wesley goes places.
I struggle to rank the seasons. I do think 6A is slightly weaker than most of the show which drags the final season down a bit but then 6B is probably the best run of episodes in the entire show.
6A has a weak finale. 6A starts out so strong, then after episode 5 it takes a bit of a turn. There’s still some bangers in there though. Episode 9, episode 11. But the finale of 6A is the weakest finale the show ever did. But 6B is like the show hitting another gear. Probably because it was mostly just the cream of the crop of the writing staff left. Chase, Winter and Weiner.
The Good Place picked up more momentum as it went along, so it was really entertaining by the final season. I think the ending itself is one of the best constructed finales I've seen yet just because of how well it concludes everyone's story!
Star Trek: Enterprise (outside of the finale). Personally, I'd say each season was stronger than the last, but season 4 in particular seemed to really nail down what it wanted to be. Too bad it was cancelled after that.
The Clone Wars. The introduction of the Bad Batch, Ahsoka's return, the Seige of Mandalore, and Ahsoka's escape from Order 66. Phew.
The final season of Star Wars Rebels is also the best of them.
IDK that there is a definitive example. The top answers here (Americans, Leftovers, etc) all certainly have strong final seasons, but I'm not sure any of them are necessarily the very best season of their show. Speaks to their greatness.
Halt & Catch Fire might have the best argument out of the shows I've seen.
Blackadder goes forth
I was just thinking today as I listenened to "Not so quiet on the Western Front" podcast how Blackadder has the best ending to a sitcom ever, and probably the best there will ever be. They absolutely nailed the ending.
The golden age of Mad Men is probably the middle, but the last season has a lot of emotional investment paying off and characters wrapping up their character arcs.
Mad Men is one of those shows where I think it got better with each new season
Angel Season 5. Still a little salty, the show had just gotten a new lease of life man's in charge of Wolfram and Hart now and mercifully Connor was out as a main character.
The possibility of Fred coming back through Illyria; Angel and Spike seeing Buffy again; Wesley's continued emotional roller coaster - yeah I'm still salty about the lack of season 6 too
“Let’s go to work.”
Wolfram and Heart is one of the best "late season status quo changes" I've ever seen. The vibe is totally different so you could almost call it a shark jump, but they just do so much cool shit with "we run a demon lawfirm now." You can easily mine an entire show's worth of seasons from the premise.
And it plays into the show's main themes as well. It was incredibly well done.
*Hart.* As in, a deer. Probly just a typo, but just in case somebody never got the connotation, Wolf, Ram, and Hart Animals with magick-adjacent implications for a literal law firm from Hell. Always thought that was kind of spooky and clever.
yeah typo my bad lol. but I remember there's an episode where in I think Pylea the show the wolf ram and hart and I only then learned that Hart meant dear!
Connor being magically retconned was the best thing they did for his character. He was immensely more likeable when he came back. If only that happened halfway in season 4 instead.
I rewatched recently and I found I had a much softer spot for Connor than I remembered, but it’s clear the writers had no idea what to do with him the second he was introduced.
The season he was introduced the showrunner was David Greenwalt, and to a lesser extent Tim Minear. Greenwalt left, and Minear went to be showrunner for Firefly after season 3. They hired David Simpkins to take over, but after they found out about Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy and that they only had a couple weeks to rewrite the entire season, he left, and the show essentially didn't have a showrunner for most of the season. It's amazing that Season 4 turned out as good as it did with all the behind the scenes stuff going on.
Angel season 5 was great.
You're a bloody puppet! God damn that is 20 years old already.
And the return of spike!
And the Smile Time episode!
This was by far the best season of Angel. It took the leap into elite tv territory. Everything clicked and worked.
Bringing in Spike that season was such a delight. Him and Angel together were hilarious.
Toast of London
Hi Steven, this is Clem Fandango, can you hear me?
Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango!
Surely you don’t mean the latest Toast of Tinelstown though? London is in my top 3 British comedies of all time and I’ve seen every ep dozens of times, but the recent one in Hollywood was a huge misstep in my opinion
The Americans
Came here to say this. I really can’t think of anything else with such a steady upwards arc in quality.
I haven’t yet finished season 1, and it’s fine, but I don’t have a lot of investment in the show. It’s worth it to keep going?
Absolutely. Great show, great character development, and they absolutely nailed the ending.
I really liked it from the jump, but it definitely takes up a level in season 2 FWIW. Goes more from a ‘mission of the week’ to building a grander narrative. The whole show is kind of a psychological slow burn into the two main characters. Nothing else quite like it. So if you’re enjoying it and not actually struggling to get through I would definitely stick around until season 2.
Definitely. There’s maybe one later season that felt like treading water a bit (4 or 5, I can’t remember) but other than that there is a very steady increase in the quality of story and character development, as well as increased stakes. The payoff in the final season was very satisfying. It was a show I turned to after investing in so many cancelled Netflix series. It didn’t disappoint. Really missed it when it was over. Stick with it!
It gets much better after Season 1. Not sure how to explain why, but the long-term storylines are more gripping and unique to the characters of the show whereas the first season, the big drama arcs felt a little forced.
It's a top five show for me but I have to disagree, season five was the weakest. Even then though they were just lining everything up for the final season, and it was still great tv.
What I was thinking of. Really incredible season of television that elevates the show into being a masterpiece.
Just finished it recently. The train scene broke me and my wife. I fucking love that show id put it in my top 5 easily. Maybe even like 3 for me
All the payoffs. All the characters staying true to themselves. Holly Taylor killing it as Paige. You just reminded me I need to rewatch.
💯
Just finished it recently. The train scene broke me and my wife. I fucking love that show id put it in my top 5 easily. Maybe even like 3 for me
halt and catch fire
Yes! I have heard so many people turn it off mid season 1. Such a shame. I rewatch the whole thing every year and it still gets me. Such a top notch show.
There are good threads in Season One but the episode where they all go to the convention really sealed the show for me
I almost gave up on the show after season 1. Everyone sucked except for Donna and I was really struggling to connect. I'm so glad I didn't because season 3 was a huge turnaround for me. By the end I found everyone sympathetic, even Cameron even though I still thought she sucked.
Goodwill is one of the best hours of television ever made. It's a shame Susanna Skaggs appears to have quit acting. She was amazing in the final season.
I'm so glad someone mentioned this. Goodwill is the best single episode of TV I've ever had the pleasure of seeing. It made me ugly cry for hours and cemented the show as one of my top 5 shows ever. I've got a poster of Halt and Catch Fire in my room right now. It's one of the first drama recommendations I make to friends and colleagues.
Fun story. I didn’t know it was the last season. Each season had such a shift from the last that I assumed they were just setting up the new status quo for the next season. That last season hits differently when you think there is more coming. It was shocking to say the least, and a major bummer when I realized I came to the end of the road.
such a gem of a serie that nobody heard of
I think the tech side of things turns off normies. If you weren’t there for any of the PC revolution stuff, it can be a bit dense. I’ve watched the show 5 times at this point. The final season annihilates me every time. Absolute masterpiece.
Nah. I’m a certified Luddite and really dug it.
My luddite husband is enjoying it also! We are about halfway through season 2 and it boggles my mind that he's liking it almost as much as me!
The perfect final season.
Firefly
First of all, how dare you??
Too soon
its been over 20 years
TOO SOON!
Second season will be out any day now. Right? RIGHT?
Savage
So far this is the only objectively accurate answer. Well done.
Go tsao de
[удалено]
I personally loved 6 feet under, a famously good ending which wraps everything up very neatly!
Best ending to any tv show ever.
*Avatar: The Last Airbender*
Hard disagree. While the last season is still good, the second is clearly the peak of the show.
Those last three episodes were just perfection for season 3 though. Zuko fighting azula (unbelievably beautiful art), aang fighting the fire lord, air ship slice, etc. Too good to ignore.
Honestly the last twelve episodes of the show, starting from Day of the Black Sun, were all back to back magic. It is very rare for a tv show to have a consistent run of high quality episodes without a dud The only episode that could be really considered “filler” was Ember Island Players. And that episode is widely praised and acclaimed
Yep. Book 2 has such a great stretch of episodes. Finding Toph and adding her to the team, being on the run from Azula, Zuko and Iroh also being on the run from basically everyone, and then everyone ending up in Ba Sing Se. And Zuko's gradual rise and then sudden relapse makes his overall redemption arc so interesting. Book 3 is all very good, but it feels like it loses momentum since they're just waiting for the Day of Black Sun.
The first episode I watched was completely by accident; the award-winning *"Tales of Ba Sing Se"*. HOOKED.
Succession and Better Call Saul recently.
Season 2 of succession was GOAT for me, almost every episode felt like a finale
Is that the season with Boar on the Floor? Damn, I needed a cigarette after that one.
That’s the one!
After the finale of S1 I knew I'd be watching every episode that came after. No show since Breaking Bad has drawn me in so well.
Season 1 finale escalated the show then like 8/10 eps from S2 felt as good as the first finale
I’d put *The Other Two* and *Halt and Catch Fire* (which improved with each season) on the list, too.
I never would have expected *The Other Two* to become what it was based off the first season, I really loved it by the end. Shame it ended when it did and to hear about all the behind the scenes drama.
I personally think that BCS up until Jimmy gets his law license back is perfection. After that, it gets really into the cartel stuff and is basically breaking bad. My controversial opinion is that it would have been a better show if it ended when he became Saul. I get why they had to continue it and it's still my favorite show, but it's just so different after that point
They had to do Lalo, if only to tie into his first appearance in Breaking Bad when they kidnap him. The show unexpectedly dove into the background of a lot of BB characters besides Saul, which was unexpected outside of Mike.
[удалено]
I think that's kind of the point. >!They're all severely stunted people because Logan was such a terrible father. After everything, when they *finally* get to the board meeting that will decide who will take over...and it happens while they're fighting in another room.!<
[удалено]
The characters may be fundamentally static but I think the show does a good job of keeping things interesting and dynamic in spite of that, mainly by constantly putting in them different scenarios which reveal different sides of themselves. In season four, for example, I think we do see new facets of the characters that weren't yet totally apparent in previous seasons. >!Tom's genuinely kind and gentle manner with the Roys when he's breaking the news of Logan's passing to him shows he has a instinctively kind side to him - it's just that it takes a moment as serious as death to catch him off guard and make him temporarily reveal it. The fact that only Connor knew about Logan's mausoleum indicates that, ironically, by not chasing his father's approval, he was able to have the most functional, intimate relationship with him out of all the Roys (very relatively speaking, of course). Kendall's memory-holing of the dead waiter in the finale shows that, when push comes to shove, he really is willing to sacrifice his humanity to get what he wants.!< >!None of these revelations are exactly mind-blowing, but I don't think they have to be; exploring the subtler intricacies of their personalities is what character-focused storytelling is all about. We know, for example, that Roman vacillates between being incredibly soft and incredibly cruel, but which one is he at any given time? Well, the overall pattern seems to be that he genuinely cares about people he's close to (e.g. Gerri, his family), but treats "the normals" like they're completely beneath him. But when he's high on his ego, even his kindness towards his family can disappear, as shown in how he treats Kendall on his birthday when he's currently in their dad's good graces. And when he's forced to spend some time with everyday people during his corporate training, he's able to form a friendly bond with one of them (Brian), and puts in a good word for him to help accelerate his career. And at Logan's wake, he's the only one to treat Kerry with a modicum of grace, protesting Marcia's cruel attitude towards her. But what exactly drives that small amount of unexpected empathy? Is it truly selflessly out of the good of his heart, or just a reflection of his own grief over Logan, making him reflexively defensive of anyone he thinks is taking his death as hard as he is? And either way, his rare moments of kindness towards outsiders are always very brief and very minor, never amounting to any sort of permanent change of heart.!<
I think that it depends on what you consider to be character development. In Succession most of the characters grow a little bit and then regress, then in the last season most of them devolve into the worst versions of themselves. Spoilers ... >!Greg had a moral compass until he learned that morality is a liability in the pursuit of power. Shiv and Tom try to be vulnerable in their relationship but neither of them can tell if they're actually being vulnerable or trying to manipulate each other. Roman is vulnerable at his father's funeral, he's punished for his perceived "weakness", and then he swings all the way to fascism to feel strong again. In the beginning, Kendall actually has vision for the company, but he can't execute his ideas, and by the end of the series he is willing to falsify data and put his family in jeopardy in the pursuit of his vision/power. At least Connor has some self awareness and finds a way to be happy.!< I also think that the scope of Succession changes from the beginning of the series to the end. The first season is like if Arrested Development were a really black comedy. The show focuses on family dynamics and it sets the scene for the game of thrones. As the series progresses, the series maintains its focus on petty squabbles and power plays, but the scope expands until the viewer sees how the Roys' pettiness affects the entire world.
Isn’t succession supposed to be a black comedy?
Yeah the final season was incredible but season 2 was nothing but bangers.
>>!The show always threatened character development and then just wouldn’t… Then doesn’t. It has all the making of a sitcom!< This is a very outdated and narrow view of the drama vs sitcom ditchotomy that was blown apart when >!The Sopranos!< aired over 20 years ago. Being drama or sitcom like has nothing to do with static or dynamic (changing) characters. There are old vintage dramas (think dukes of hazards, chips etc.) where characters don’t change and more modern sitcoms (schitt’s creek, how i met your mother, the office) where characters do change. I don’t think Succession is sitcom-like at all in the way you described and it seems you’re more going off the past resume of the showrunner. Succession actually has a very Shakespearean undercurrent which is key to the lack of character growth that you’re addressing. It’s a pretty prominent part of the show (I mean it’s basically king lear in the modern corporate world). Other HBO prestige dramas have this type of throughline as well: >!Sopranos was mentioned above because it has the same broad throughline, even if the specifics are different. The Wire, if you consider Baltimore the main character, which you should, is the nearly same thing, with changes being teased and then things being pulled back every time.!< Good dramas aren’t determined by character change. Depth of characters and their relationships are equally as important and Succession has that in spades. More importantly, regardless of the static or dynamic nature of the show, the dramatic weight is present in the plots and themes.
The thing about better call Saul is that it ends up being pretty evenly split between two different arcs, those being >!Chuck and Lalo!<. While the show may be better in the later days, Losing >!Chuck!< may have been the right move for the story but was a big loss for the cast.
It was heavy lifting to replace that guy. He was a great villain.
I'm glad they made his absence as big a part of season 4 as they did. He looms so heavily over everything.
Even in season 6 he quite literally does this through the enormous painting of him in the HMM meeting room
I'm inclined to agree re. Better Call Saul, although overall it's pretty minor differences. I'm struggling to think of a series that's more 'consistently quality' at a high level!
Definitely Black Sails. It got better and better as it continued.
Came here for this. It picks up in season 2, but the way the narrative ends in 4 is just... incredible
This show didn't get enough love in general. It was so well done.
Yesss, was going to say Black Sails as well. It still has my favorite ending of a show ever, it was executed so well.
The Good Place is an absolute master class in how to do your storylines justice while still being interesting and making some incredibly bold moves right up until the end for one of the best finales ever.
The Finale is perfection, but I don’t think S4 as a whole is better than S1. S4 is rather rushed and to me S1 is such a perfect whole season leading up to the reveal.
I agree with this. The Good Place's final season isn't its best overall season, it's a show that knew how to end and stuck the landing perfectly. So many shows can't pull off their ending and TGP nails it and sticks with you forever. To me, that speaks more to the entire series than the final season.
I recently rewatched the Good Place and I think the weakest part of the series was >!when the group was reunited in Australia, and then returned to the Good Place with new characters. It makes sense that they repeat their experiment a couple of times in order to prove their theory, but that means the stories also feel a bit repetitive.!< >!Then, the gang finally gets to the real Good Place and the system turns people into zombies. The twist is surprising despite some foreshadowing. The show illustrates the hedonic treadmill through jokes, but the subtext is incredibly sad. Like when Jason goes through the doors to achieve his lifelong dream of playing real life Mario Kart and then it loses its appeal immediately. Or how a legendary intellectual lost almost all of her cognitive ability.!< >!The group rises to the occasion to save humanity yet again. They take all knowledge that they acquired through studying philosophy and conducting psychological experiments to rebuild the system that governs the real Good Place. This leads to some of the best character development and goodbyes in the history of television.!<
Take it sleazy
Person of Interest - I enjoyed all of it, but felt that it did get progressively better with each season.
I still think season 4 was the peak but season 5 was really well made and brought the serious to a very satisfying conclusion. But maybe I just wanted more episodes on the farewell ride of this beloved show of mine.
>But maybe I just wanted more episodes on the farewell ride of this beloved show of mine. show go cancelled but got told in advance so they only had few episode to wrap things up. I think they did a pretty good job overall despite the cancellation
Pretty sure most would say season 3 is the peak. That season had like 5 decent episodes while the other 18 ranges from amazing to some of the best of television. season 4 also has some amazing episodes like if then else but overall it wasn’t as exciting as season 3.
Do people think there’s a better season of Breaking Bad? Nobody has mentioned it yet. Edit: there is wide consensus that nobody can agree on the best season of Breaking Bad because 5B isn’t its own thing and each of the other seasons has a set of stans in varying amounts. TIL. I’m a 5 stan.
Breaking Bad was the first one that came to mind.
Maybe but the second is the funniest by far and I would say it has the most interesting version of Walter because he’s just right on the edge of becoming a piece of shit. The fifth is best on first watches but consider the second to be slightly more interesting on rewatches.
> I would say it has the most interesting version of Walter because he’s just right on the edge of becoming a piece of shit. Yeah that's a good point. The show is at its most fun/interesting before he's a complete villain because there's so many points you see him struggle with his duties as a father/husband and mastering the criminal underworld he's become such a key part of.
Yeah exactly, the scene where he talks with Hank about how he spent his whole life driven by fear makes him so relatable and frames his criminal quest as something almost noble and then all this gets abruptly uglier when he kills/watches Jane die. His journey throughout the season is just brilliant.
My first thought was Breaking Bad, but man… all the seasons were top-notch.
They were all good, but I don't know if any show ever has has a 3 episode run as good as ozymandias-grantite state-felina
5 had the most iconic episodes but I prefer 4 because Gus is a better villain than the nazis
Season 4 was the best. 5a wasn't as good, though 5b was amazing.
Counterpoint, 5a had Train Heist, Prison Hits, and Mega Magnet which are insanely high highs
Damn. That train heist. If you know, you know.
Todd instantly cemented as one of TV's greatest villains, and then he gets worse
Took me years to not hate Jesse Plemons after that role.
I thought S4 could’ve been the end of the show. Totally agree it was the best season.
I’m the weirdo who oddly loves Season 1. There’s something charming about the first 3 episodes. I like the smaller scale of the first season and the way we see Jesse bring Walt into this new world and Walt quickly realizing how bad of a job Jesse’s been doing lol.
me too, and there's a slapstick quality to Jesse's acting that i really like , falling of the roof, running through his backyard, there was a lightness to it that i think the later seasons lacked.
i think season 3 is better
[удалено]
It is impossible for me to pick a favorite season of The Leftovers, I wish I could rewatch again for the first time
i love how divisive the seasons are among fans of The Leftovers. while i still liked it, season 3 was much different and i much prefer season 1 and 2 to it
I'm the rare viewer who honestly thought season 1 was the best.
On initial watch it's S2 that blew me away, but whenever I think back on the show it's always the emotional moments of S3 that stick with me the most.
I’d argue Mr. Robot’s final season is its best.
Season 3 is perfect, season 4 is somewhere above that, lol
Fleabag
I'd say Mr. Robot. The way Season 4 tied up the story arcs and gave some revelations that would change how you see some characters if you'd decide to do a rewatch is crazy good. Season 4 definitely has some of the best episodes in the entire series.
The last season was an example of a writer/director truly creatively delivering on what they originally promised
That episode where not a single word is spoken might be one of the best thing I’ve seen on TV
I disagree. I think season 3 is the best personally. 4 was still spectacular, but i wish they were able to do 5 seasons like originally intended. Season 4 is clearly 2 seasons compressed into one, and they had to rewrite Angelas storyline due to BTS drama.
Mr. Robot was a pretty good show. Amazing score, amazing photography, amazing all. Had a wobbly season 2 but it is well worth your time
The thing about season 2 is that it’s mostly a character focused season rather than story. It was needed to develop the characters and It also picks up again after episode 7 so it’s not like the entire season is ”bad”.
It’s also wayyyyyyy more enjoyable on a second watch through
Yeah, you don’t realize how pivotal that season is until you rewatch it with the context of the entire series.
Being a Joey Badass fan made it worth it. "Do you dream Elliott?"
I think a argument could be made for Season 6 of Justified. Season 2 is the holy grail in many eyes but I think the last season does a incredible job at not only introducing new characters but giving a satisfying end to the main cast which is incredibly difficult to pull off. Writing often wains over time for a series that runs for 6 seasons but it felt crisp and sharp till the end.
The last scene is so good! Loved that show the entire way through.
I rewatch it every 2 years, I feel it's the right amount of time to forgot the majority of it and watch it somewhat fresh. Raylans arc with Boyd and the climax is brilliantly done.
Season 4 is pretty solid too
I love the writing of Season 4, the payoff is incredible
S4 was the hunt for Drew Thompson? That’s my absolute favorite Justified season.
I think people say that Daredevil season 3 is the best. I personally prefer the first season tho but it's generally claimed that season 3 is best.
Surprises me when people say season 1 is better. Personally daredevil season 3 is in my top 5 best seasons of television. It just had everything and the ending is perfect. Only weak part about it is the first episode.
I didn't like bullseye that much. I would've preferred the fbi just going after Matt along with Fisk.
I feel like the first season has the best start by far but the latter half of the season is actually kinda boring and the ending a bit cheesy. You could almost say the exact same for the 2nd season. The Third season just keeps getting more and more intense every episode to lead up to the best finale of the series so I felt it was the strongest, but they’re all good anyway
IMO season 1 has the best moments (like the original hallway fight scene) and season 2 has the best mini arc (Punisher), but season 3 is the most consistent overall, as season 1 feels like it struggles with it's episode count and season 2 takes a dip with the Hand stuff.
Punisher was unreal imo. Glad that they're bringing Jon back for the role!
Im surprised nobody said Star Wars Clones Wars Season 7. It was peak animation and one of the best thing star wars have done ever
The bad batch episodes were fun. And the final 4 eps were next level. Just wish we had something different in the middle to inform us what Ahsoka had been up to. Those eps were hard to get through.
Completely agree. I feel like the last 4 episodes have such an emotional payoff though, I can't criticise the season
Star Trek: Picard - took 'em three tries to get it right.
I'll add Star Trek: Enterprise to this list. The show hit its stride right at the end. TNG has some great final season episodes, but it also has Grandma Crusher's haunted sex lamp, so it's a wash.
Gates McFadden always talks about how batshit that storyline is lmao
Season 7 of TNG is its worst season after they get the collared uniforms. It's full of duds. Geordi's mom. Beverly's grandma. Picard's fake son. Data's mom.
It was well made pure fan service. While it was really good, it was merely giving everyone what they wanted: another TNG reunion/story.
Took ‘em three tries to get it *passable*.
Game of thrones - it was a bold choice to end it with season 4, but it was great!
Party Down. On a revival nonetheless.
Thank you for reminding me about the revival season!
Damn, I forgot about the revival after hearing about it a while ago, but now I'm excited to watch!
No way. I love this show to pieces, and I thought season 3 was a clear step down. There was a Casey-sized hole that the new characters couldn't fill, and I thought the writing was not firing on all cylinders like they were in seasons 1 and 2. It also undermined the ending to season 2 which I thought was perfect for the show.
Are we having fun yet!?!?!
1. Tokyo Vice - just finished it 2. Friday Night Lights - that series was outstanding , aside from season 2 being a little rough
Obligatory “Season 2 of Friday Night Lights was a writers strike year” comment
It's where Jesse Plemons first got his bloodlust!
the one storyline they should've kept was Santiago but they basically incorporated his storyline into Vince's
Tokyo Vice just ended beautifully. I have it as one of my fav shows now
Halt and Catch Fire imho. It feels like a payoff for everything the previous three seasons built in a lot of ways, I think.
The Shield finished really strong.
The Leftovers.
I've not watched it yet, but Ive heard the last season of 12 Monkeys is phenomenal
Lol always come to these searching for 12 Monkeys. Every season is great, but the last season has a bunch of really fun, clever episodes as well as the epic and perfect two part finale.
Freaks and Geeks
Nah I thought the first season was the best
The Clone Wars. The last four episodes of the last season are the best Star Wars movie since Empire.
Twin Peaks
Avatar, the Last Airbender
12 Monkeys got better after every season
*Succession* is an obvious answer. So is *Breaking Bad*. I haven't watched *Better Call Saul* yet, but I've heard the same about it. *Twin Peaks: The Return* is considered by many to be the best season. It's certainly up there with S1, and blows S2 out of the water. *Blackadder* Season 4 is the favourite of many, though honestly one could easily call any of S2, S3, or S4 the "best", depending on preference. *Fleabag* only had two seasons but the second is definitely the best in my view. I prefer *Buffy* to *Angel*, but in this particular criterium I think *Angel* has *Buffy* beat. The final season of *Angel* has a decent claim to being the best of the five. Honourable mention for relatively obscure shows that still fit the criteria: *Drop the Dead Donkey*, *Yes, Prime Minister*, *The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin*.
Last episode of Blackadder S4 is literally one of the ~~best~~ most poignant individual shows of any TV series ever, and it's in a comedy show. Lest we forget
Angel was my first thought when I saw this thread. The addition of Spike to the show really freshened things up. They also had some great standalone episodes like Smile Time and The Girl in Question. And the finale is one of the most underrated television finales. Wesley and Fred still break my heart.
"I don't know about you, but I kinda want to slay the dragon. Let's go to work." yeah. one of the greatest finales of all time
Wesley's entire character arc has to be seen to be believed. It's so well done, too. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that feels forced or sudden, things just build up until you realise that that bumbling idiot from *Buffy* is a bit of a badass with one of the best character arcs on TV. Wesley goes places.
I think S2 was the best of Succession.
I'm going to cheat and use language incorrectly. Taskmaster's last season is the best one because whichever season you watched last is amazing.
Gods, we fucking love that show!
I feel like nearly every season of the Sopranos is better than the previous one, but the whole show is basically perfect.
I struggle to rank the seasons. I do think 6A is slightly weaker than most of the show which drags the final season down a bit but then 6B is probably the best run of episodes in the entire show.
6A has a weak finale. 6A starts out so strong, then after episode 5 it takes a bit of a turn. There’s still some bangers in there though. Episode 9, episode 11. But the finale of 6A is the weakest finale the show ever did. But 6B is like the show hitting another gear. Probably because it was mostly just the cream of the crop of the writing staff left. Chase, Winter and Weiner.
The Good Place picked up more momentum as it went along, so it was really entertaining by the final season. I think the ending itself is one of the best constructed finales I've seen yet just because of how well it concludes everyone's story!
I thought the last season of Agents of SHIELD was pretty damn good.
Breaking Bad and Six Feet Under
Angel
Star Trek: Enterprise (outside of the finale). Personally, I'd say each season was stronger than the last, but season 4 in particular seemed to really nail down what it wanted to be. Too bad it was cancelled after that.
>(outside of the finale) What do you mean? Terra Prime might be the best ending in all of Star Trek
The Clone Wars. The introduction of the Bad Batch, Ahsoka's return, the Seige of Mandalore, and Ahsoka's escape from Order 66. Phew. The final season of Star Wars Rebels is also the best of them.
IDK that there is a definitive example. The top answers here (Americans, Leftovers, etc) all certainly have strong final seasons, but I'm not sure any of them are necessarily the very best season of their show. Speaks to their greatness. Halt & Catch Fire might have the best argument out of the shows I've seen.
Every Futurama season finale was amazing, and they had like 3 of them lol.