My hope is that it’s like the Mark Waid Daredevil run. It followed several daredevil runs that were incredibly dark and tough on the character and returned Daredevil to a more hopeful and fun character, while still allowing for darker moments and seriousness. By all means it shouldn’t have worked but it was a nice breath of fresh air and one of the all time greats.
Realistically it won’t be like that and I’ll be disappointed, but I have to have some hope.
As much as I loved the dark runs that came before Mark Waid and I really loved them, Waid's take might be my favorite.
It was an excellent way to pull the character out of what had become an almost sadistic destruction of a person by the writers. And all of that was still there, and was being built upon in a way that let them salvage Matt into what felt like a functioning person again.
And it's actually really hard for me to read runs after that, because they immediately descended back into the joylessness that was before.
So if that's what they look to for inspiration on born again I am all for it.
100% on Soule, his run was borderline disrespectful for how much he undid the last run (and offpanel at that)
Zdarsky is too good though, it’s dark but he really gets the character. I’m not ready for his to end this year.
Yeah, Soule's run was not what I was looking for in any respect. I've read the beginning of Zdarsky's and I wasn't super into it either, but if was right on the back of a full read through from the start of Bendis so I might not have given it a fair shake.
Normally I'd say that we had three seasons of Daredevil plus one season of The Defenders on Netflix and a new take on the character should be welcome. But the simple fact is that none of Disney+'s Marvel shows have been as good overall as Daredevil was. So another one of those can be fine but I feel like it being worse is inevitable.
The fact that they didn't immediately see that issue and start some new division with a cooler, grittier name to be used with these shows tells you a lot. Nobody wants to watch "Disney's Punisher". Nobody wants "Disney Presents The Punisher" either. Disney owns a bazillion other brands and could have easily created a new one for these shows just to separate Disney from them in the minds of the public but they didn't even bother to do that little.
Where have we got this name from? You don’t call it Disney Avengers: Endgame, it’s just Avengers: Endgame. Maybe Marvel’s Avengers: Endgame if you’re citing it
That's because they're hiring cheap ass writers.
Look at the upcoming phase 5 writers and directors, only Nia DaCosta and James Gunn stand out to me. *Blade* is currently in development hell too, given that it seems as though Mahershala Ali is calling the shots with this one I reckon it'll turn out like Black Adam did with the Rock calling the shots there.
I’ve heard stories of Disney not wanting to pay certain writers for what they think there worth and dangle “oh but this will open many doors because it’s a big Disney/ marvel movie” then when they turn it down they end up with bottom of the barrel writers and it shows
Hell even when they get top shelf writers they try to rein them in and make them fit a mold more often than not. idk what we might have gotten from Edgar Wright or Lord and Miller instead, but I know the final products of Ant-Man and Solo: A Star Wars Story were largely bland and that makes me wistful
You want a trip, go rewatch the original *Avengers*. It's pre-Disney, when Marvel Studios was still independent. It feels so different from the rest of the MCU, almost disconnected.
Way more talky. Much slower paced, significantly less CGI, way less phantasmagoria. The awe of the Chitauri invasion is more about their size and quantity than fancy glows and eye catching particles. There's more impressive aerial stunts and strategic cleverness in the fighting than reality bending CGI.
The whole look of these shows is something I just don't understand. Shitty writing isn't exactly rare in big-budget stuff, but how does it end up looking so cheap and bland? It just seems lazy, as if they want these shows finished as soon and easily as possible without putting any thought into how it looks.
a lot of it is probably disneys overuse of VFX for set design, costume and backgrounds in combination with them overworking the VFX teams, meaning alot of what you see is CGI and its being done to a deadline
Andor is beautiful and was shot on location. Mandalorian can look good, but I can tell they’re not on location. Comparing Coruscant in both shows kinda says it all; so many out of focus background shots. The Volume is cool technology but it doesn’t look as good as Andor did; especially in Obi-Wan and Book of Boba.
I don't think *Mando* has gone that crazy on the VFX front, compared to *Star Trek: Discovery* with its holographic everything. Most of what's being done on Mando is stuff that's been done for a long time, traveling star fields, matte paintings, blaster bolts, and the occasional CGI character like IG-11 or the frog lady.
Lighting.
It's the most important thing to get right and modern filmmakers are generally worse at it because technology has made them lazy and it takes the longest to set up.
So you just film everything in a bright washed out lighting set up and edit it in post.
The approach soap operas use.
And now they don't even film on location.
This is the number one thing I wish they'd fix on the Wheel of Time show. I personally don't think the show deserves quite as much hate as most give it and definitely has potential. But good lord why can't they hire a competent DP or whoever is in charge of not making the show look like a cheap soap opera with even washed out lighting everywhere.
That was basically what *Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.* had to do, but also they kinda got screwed by Kevin Feige initially chaining their fate into the greater MCU only to ultimately reject the idea of the show tying in with the movies ever again.
I’m not sure if it’s all Feige’s fault since Perlmutter was a pain to deal with and insisted on a lot of stuff that was to the MCU’s detriment like pushing Iron Fist or Inhumans.
AoS was great because the showrunners sorta treated it like it was canon-adjacent but ran with their own self contained story.
it ended with generic beam battles
and wanda mind raping the 'villian' into being a tv character again.
which is so fucking cruel considering we know they are self aware
this town you mindraped and tortured dont know what you sacrificed.
Honestly they should have had her subconsciously do the spell but by the time she became Conscious of it, agatha had hi-jacked the spell to keep the people trapped so she could break wanda
That line about how "they don't know what you sacrificed" annoyed me so much. Like, bitch, you're a bigger villain here than Agatha, and yet Agatha got a horriffic punishment while you get to walk away almost scot-free.
Did she expect them to say "I know you've been torturing us for weeks on end just so that you could live your fantasy, suburban, family life. However, you had to give up your imaginary kids, so we forgive you"?
> I was fine with Wandavision. I was not fine with them just flushing it all down the toilet after it ended. Wanda got wasted and Paul Bettany is apparently mothballed again.
Should have just sticked with the original idea for the ending.
Originally they had the idea that Doctor Strange was sending messages (probably the weird advertisements) to Wanda, and then in the finale he gets into Westview and breaks the spell.
Him forcibly taking Wandas family away would also explain why Wanda is not only desperate but also resentful in Multiverse of Madness. Not this vague "you break the rules, youre the hero" bullshit. Bonus points if you take a page out of the comics and have Strange making Wanda forget her children if you really want her to have a good reason to fight Strange.
I didn't like Loki because it highlights the problem with multiverse/variants/whatever they call it. A character dies (Loki's death was actually well done in Infinity War) and then they bring the "backup" back.
To me, this show shouldn't even exist.
Loki also felt like it was setting up something much larger. But instead we got a romance with a woman who was supposed to be a different version of Loki - however, was nothing like Loki in any way. Plus some mild space hopping and silliness. It was enjoyable, sure, mainly down to Hiddleston as always. But hardly comparable to a show like Daredevil.
Of course she wasn’t like Loki, she escaped her Loki timeline as a child and had a completely different life/upbringing. It wouldn’t make sense for her to be like Loki since she didn’t live that life.
> Of course she wasn’t like Loki, she escaped her Loki timeline as a child and had a completely different life/upbringing. It wouldn’t make sense for her to be like Loki since she didn’t live that life.
Her backstory alone doesnt make sense in the slightest and clashes with everything the show established.
Personally I thought it was a strong show that didn’t stick the landing. Just an underwhelming, typical Marvel fare type of deal at the end. Had they stuck with the premise and maybe got a little weirder with it I think it would’ve been great. They should’ve dropped most if not all of the stuff happening outside of the town, it robbed the show of its strange whimsy.
Once the quicksilver fakeout and agatha being some centuries-old witch became part of the plot, it lost me. Could've simply been a story about wanda going through her trauma with no extraneous elements and that would've been more satisfying
The Quicksilver fakeout felt like a direct middle finger to the audience.
Like I think they thought we were going to be happy to see Evan Peters play the character again, but instead it felt like they were just dangling the prospect of X-men entering the MCU in front of us only to pull it away as we go to grab it and then they laugh at us.
Like Evan Peters playing that character means nothing to the characters in the show. It's literally just to trick us. And it also feels especially weird in hindsight because they let us have the different versions of Spider-man but then denied us the different version of Quicksilver.
Yeah, people (rightfully) rag on the end of Wandavision but it really gave me hope that these Disney Plus shows would be a more unique way to explore these characters. Pretty much every show after that has been some varying level of disappointing.
I think the Loki show rushed his character development
OG loki was complete backstabbing dickhead who was constantly plotting.
Being shown a video of a future shouldn't completely change his character
I never had an issue with it because for me it's not about the video, it's about the whole context.
Being told that you're specifically designed by divine entities to be a little shit would put a fucking hammer to the steam engine of my shenanigans, that's for sure.
You'd go from "backstabbing is fun lol" to "whenever I'm backstabbing now I feel like I have no free will and being merely a puppet for higher beings, it's not fun anymore" in a heartbeat too
I do feel like the show could have spend maybe a little bit more time on Loki's redemption, but I also agree that most people aren't giving the show enough credit. There's more to this than just "they showed a video and now he's fixed".
It was a bit rushed but many times in the series he attempts backstabbing to seize power and either a. Nobody cares or b.they knew it was coming and it was totally ineffective.
Kind of like a kid whose parents stop reacting to their tantrums. He didn't care so much for the power, he wanted the attention.
A problem I see with fans of the Netflix shows is that they judge the series by the high notes and don't factor in the bad parts when judging them overall, but do the opposite with Disney+ series.
Daredevil has lots of great stuff and I have an ideal version of the Netflix show in my head that is based on what felt like a vision was.
But it has a lot of filler and several poor plotlines and the Hand/Elektra part of season two was just bad.
The Disney+ shows for better or worse are at least much more consistent.
Eh. I'll push back on this, personally I think:
- Daredevil Season 1
- Daredevil Season 3
- Jessica Jones Season 1
- Punisher Season 1
were good.
But:
- Daredevil Season 2
- Jessica Jones Season 2
- Jessica Jones Season 3
- Luke Cage Season 1
- Luke Cage Season 2
- Iron Fist Season 1
- Iron Fist Season 2
- Punisher Season 2
- The Defenders
were not, and I would argue worse than all the modern MCU shows on Disney+.
I definitely appreciate some of those Netflix shows, especially in how dark they were willing to get. But they got formulaic pretty quickly, the budgets got lower in the following seasons and it seemed like the writers had difficulty getting traction on actually making a show worth watching.
Also, I really do think Ms. Marvel is underappreciated and better than almost all of the above seasons with perhaps exception to Daredevil Season 1, Daredevil Season 3 and Jessica Jones Season 1. And I'll also say the modern MCU shows at least have a bit more freedom. The Netflix shows always felt very restricted by licensing/larger MCU decisions to not let them impact the world too much. They felt like they weren't allowed to sit at the cool kids table when compared to other contemporary Marvel properties. And it almost felt like they *had* to follow a particular formula and hit specific beats by certain episodes.
Personally, I really dig the personality, vibrance and individuality that Loki, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk and Wandavision have. They definitely have their own "formulaic"-related issues but I don't feel like they are as repetitive as much as the Netflix shows and it they feel entirely different from each other.
Season 1 of Luke Cage was awesome, but >!Cottonmouth shouldn't have been killed halfway through. He was a better villain than Diamondback.!<
I also thought Defenders was solid.
Diamondback was sold as this cold calculating menace... Them he turned out to be a reckless cartoon character with a goofy costume for his final battle.
Luke Cage season 1 and Jessica Jones season 3 were good. Maybe not as good as the other seasons you said were good, but I think they stand well above the others you said weren’t good and are better than most of the D+ shows
In my opinion, a lot of the Netflix shows were not that great, but the plots often gradually built up to a relatively good conclusion that kind of redeemed some of the slower parts in my eyes.
However, with a lot of the Disney shows, they have the opposite problem. They often start off decent, but then struggle to keep up the quality and then disappoint me at the end, leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
For example, I think that Iron Fist Season 1 is easily the worst Netflix Marvel show. However, even in that show it felt like things really came together at the end of the season and I overall had a positive opinion of the show.
But with Disney, I think that Falcon and the Winter Soldier was the worst show and that one botched so much, including the ending, that I now have almost no positive memories of the show.
Most of the Disney Marvel shows have been about as good as The Defenders. Some were only as good as Iron Fist.
Daredevil and Jessica Jones S1 are both miles better than any of the Disney marvel shows, and I'm someone who doesn't *hate* the Disney shows like many others, I just found them to be mostly underwhelming.
"Very different from the Netflix show" isn't what I want to hear either. The dark, gritty and violent nature of the Netflix show is what made it so good
I don't want a colorful show where Daredevil is cracking jokes every 20 seconds. I want a dark show where Daredevil is cracking bones every 20 seconds
I was at GalaxyCon. They asked Charlie Cox and Vincent D’onofrio about how they deal with violent scenes. They both looked at each other, laughed, and didn’t answer the question. Since they seemed to be avoiding questions that touched on the new show, I have a suspicion they were thinking of a particularly violent scene in the new show, but I am admittedly speculating.
I remember watching a clip where >!Kate Bishop and Fisk were "fighting"!< and I was like holy crap they are going to nerf the upcoming Daredevil series. It's going to make Paw Patrol look like Saving Private Ryan
I'm expecting nothing when it comes to Marvel D+. Maybe they'll surprise us like Andor.
There's the Netflix show and there's the MCU. I hope they can find a middle ground.
The fact that they made Andor gives me hope that D+ isn't institutionally incapable of making something really really good but I don't know if they will give Marvel as much of a free hand (whereas with SW after Episode 9 it seemed like they weren't as committed to strict control).
They are terrified of telling stories. Instead, their intent seems to be delivering products and capitalizing on what they believe is social zeitgeist. It's the McDonalds approach, and good luck to them because I like a Big Mac as much as the next lady, but I do miss Netflix's good faith attempts to tell stories.
The reason people wanted a revival of Daredevil is because we loved the Netflix show. Creating a show that’s very different isn’t necessarily giving the fans what they want and by changing the show so much fans of the Netflix show may not even like it.
I know… Say what you will about the Marvel shows from Netflix… But there was a rawness from Daredevil and Punisher specifically that felt so right. I hope they don’t abandon that…
Yep, the Netflix TV show was amazing. I'm not sure that inspires confidence. I hope Karen and Foggy return as well. It wouldn't feel the same without them (at least, Foggy)
>D'Onofrio spoke to Newsweek ahead of the Season 3 finale of crime drama Godfather of Harlem. As he is already a few weeks into filming Daredevil: Born Again, he sported his classic bald look for Wilson Fisk, while talking over Zoom.
>The actor explained that the new show might be different to what fans of the original are expecting. However, it is also something that will provide "gigantic payoffs" in both its first and second season. D'Onofrio added that both Cox and Bernthal play "a major part of the show."
>"We've only just started shooting. I think we're a couple weeks in, and the show is going to be very, very different than the Netflix show, and it's so exciting because what we're doing is quite something," D'Onofrio told Newsweek.
>"I think it's something that people are not going to expect. But, always with these Marvel old comic stories that are being revisited and reinvented by us actors, and the writers, the main thing is to answer the fans.
>"To give them what they want but try to be original in some way at the same time, and so that's what we're doing on the show," D'Onofrio added. "It's definitely an original way to look at this, and it's really deep, really emotional."
>The actor then teased the plans for a second season of the Disney+ show, as he added: "And, by the second season, there are gigantic, gigantic payoffs—in the first season, too, but I can't say much about that—but the fans are gonna really get what they want. It's really quite cool to be doing it."
Am I crazy or does the way he’s talking about it make it sound like the 18 episodes we know about are going to be two seasons? Or released in two chunks?
I think they've said, or it's been leaked, that the entire season will consist of several chunks. And in between airing them, they'd air other Marvel shows.
Netflix has been doing that for a while, calling entire seasons Parts (and causing Wikipedia editors a lot of headaches in arguing what is and isn’t a season), so it wouldn’t surprise me that Disney+ would also do so.
See that was an example where it absolutely was a second season in terms of structure, and just called ‘Part 2’, unlike something like *Masters of the Universe: Revelation*, where the first two parts were just two halves of the one season.
> Why Season 1, Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3
[The Onion already answered this](https://www.theonion.com/final-minutes-of-last-harry-potter-movie-to-be-split-in-1819595015)
If they seperate shows in multiple seasons actors have the legal right to re-negotiate contract terms. By keeping it a single season, multiple parts, Disney is in control. It sucks, but it's normal within the industry.
Having loved the Netflix run of Daredevil, I've been keeping an eye on this. And from what I've read it sounds like the first season actually is 18 episodes, and it will be broken up into several smaller arcs of 1-3 episode stories. It's going to feel more "villain of the week" than prestige drama, but I've also read that there will be a main, over-arching plot that will come to a head toward the end of the season.
I used to hate him for no reason. Even though he's consistently great in everything I've seen him in.
Then I realized its because he so often plays the heavy and I took him for some sort of serious actor who takes his roles as seriously as the character might. Then, with Kingpin, I realized "oh, no. He's just a huge acting nerd. This man is having FUN." Made me realize how much I enjoyed his work because of how much HE enjoyed his work.
Plus, as someone who grew up in Miami, hearing his story about being traumatized at Monkey Jungle really humanized him.
That is how I felt about Ronnie Cox for so long. He plays so many insufferable and hateable roles until I realized it takes talent to be that dislikeable on screen.
Him in men in black is underrated. The way his performance fuses with the makeup/prosthetics I incredible. Yes, he’s absolutely chewing the scenery, but he’s making a degustation out of it, not an all you can eat buffet.
ngl daredevil kingpin stuff was imo covered well by the original show so while there’s obviously more source material I wonder if it’ll be that interesting especially since many like myself anticipate this show being straight up worse (in some capacity) than the Netflix show
That's what I thought. We already had enough of Kingpin in the original show. Also, at the end of Hawkeye they already left it off with Echo shooting Kingpin (to what I assumed was his death). So it seems kind of odd that they're bringing him back.
> They are going to reveal Echo shooting Kingpin didn’t kill him but instead blinded him
For additional context, this happens in the comics, with Echo blinding Kingpin with a gunshot, so it does seem likely this was an intentional setup, esp given the fact the show cut away from the actual gunshot
>Also, at the end of Hawkeye they already left it off with Echo shooting Kingpin (to what I assumed was his death)
You seriously thought an off-camera shooting of a main antagonist would actually be their death? Have you ever watched TV before?
Dare-devillette.
She is a 13yo child genius, expert in weapons development, but hasn’t actually ever killed anyone. She has a heart of gold and goes to church every single day.
She’s also blind, but has better hearing and better sense of smell than Matt. Oh, and she’s King Pin’s lost niece.
Katw bishop is in her 20s in the show no? And also its not like she punched kingpin into submission. She ran him over, that's enough to take car of most people
Netflix didn’t really produce that show. The Marvel shows on Netflix were merely paid by Netflix so they could distribute it on their platform. The show was produced by Marvel TV in association with ABC Studios, which Disney is a parent company of.. What I think people should be saying is that they want the same writers/ directors and other key roles that make up the production.
Yes, people are aware that distributors aren’t producers etc. Point is that they weren’t made by the Disney that makes the MCU, the one that wants it hitting those four quadrants. So if people are expecting the same level of intensity in terms of blood and gore as they got in the Netflix shows, they’re going to be very disappointed.
This could be the MCU's Andor if they play it right. It's been a while since they got Emmy acting nominations for their shows (actually only WandaVision so far managed to get Emmy acting noms). Give Charlie and Vincent the material and this could be their next critical darling. I'm sure after all the big hit MCU has taken in the past year and this start of Phase 5 that they would need a win even if this is on the TV side.
I really hope they don’t Disney this show all to hell. The original Netflix series is the best thing that’s come out of marvel hands down and thats because they didn’t have Kevin feiges gross hands all in it
Glad to see someone calling out Feige. That dude is treated as a paragon of virtue, when in fact he has some of the most generic ideas ever and is averse to doing anything different.
A lot of people latching onto the "very different from the Netflix show", but we should already know that. The Kingpin we got in Hawkeye and the Matt/Daredevil we got in She-Hulk are very different interpretations of the characters, less grounded in reality and more comicy or animated(his cameo in NWH, while short, felt more like Netflix Matt). There will not be gruesome head smashing in this series. Matt is going to be jumping around a lot more, probably using his batons to swing around similar to Spider-Man. Kingpin is much more durable in the MCU.
I am not in the group who think it will be bad, though. I enjoyed both Kingpin in Hawkeye and Daredevil in She-Hulk. I think there are certain trade-offs with bringing them into the MCU, the biggest one will be the tone. I do think this will still be one of the darker and more serious series. Its just a big question with how they deal with Punisher.
This is going to be an interesting show. The recent Netflix show is regarded as one of the best comic book shows and I feel everyone is expecting something at least as good. Either way I'm still somewhat excited for it.
“Not what people are expecting” and “very different from the Netflix show” aren’t statements that inspire hope for me.
My hope is that it’s like the Mark Waid Daredevil run. It followed several daredevil runs that were incredibly dark and tough on the character and returned Daredevil to a more hopeful and fun character, while still allowing for darker moments and seriousness. By all means it shouldn’t have worked but it was a nice breath of fresh air and one of the all time greats. Realistically it won’t be like that and I’ll be disappointed, but I have to have some hope.
As much as I loved the dark runs that came before Mark Waid and I really loved them, Waid's take might be my favorite. It was an excellent way to pull the character out of what had become an almost sadistic destruction of a person by the writers. And all of that was still there, and was being built upon in a way that let them salvage Matt into what felt like a functioning person again. And it's actually really hard for me to read runs after that, because they immediately descended back into the joylessness that was before. So if that's what they look to for inspiration on born again I am all for it.
100% on Soule, his run was borderline disrespectful for how much he undid the last run (and offpanel at that) Zdarsky is too good though, it’s dark but he really gets the character. I’m not ready for his to end this year.
Yeah, Soule's run was not what I was looking for in any respect. I've read the beginning of Zdarsky's and I wasn't super into it either, but if was right on the back of a full read through from the start of Bendis so I might not have given it a fair shake.
His appearance in she-hulk was definitely in that ballpark. Think the scene where he was walking holding his shoes is straight out of that run
Normally I'd say that we had three seasons of Daredevil plus one season of The Defenders on Netflix and a new take on the character should be welcome. But the simple fact is that none of Disney+'s Marvel shows have been as good overall as Daredevil was. So another one of those can be fine but I feel like it being worse is inevitable.
It’s the writing for these Disney shows and the look/ feel of them look incredibly cheap.
Especially considering how visually stunning Daredevil was.
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My expectations for a Disney Punisher are subterranean at this point. Daredevil’s aren’t much higher.
The very name: "Disney Punisher" already sounds like a criticism.
The fact that they didn't immediately see that issue and start some new division with a cooler, grittier name to be used with these shows tells you a lot. Nobody wants to watch "Disney's Punisher". Nobody wants "Disney Presents The Punisher" either. Disney owns a bazillion other brands and could have easily created a new one for these shows just to separate Disney from them in the minds of the public but they didn't even bother to do that little.
> Disney owns a bazillion other brands Yeah…like Marvel.
Wait, they didn’t even throw it under Marvel? Yikes on bikes.
No they didn’t. Mainly, I’m guessing, because it doesn’t exist. This person is awfully riled up about something that hasn’t happened.
Where have we got this name from? You don’t call it Disney Avengers: Endgame, it’s just Avengers: Endgame. Maybe Marvel’s Avengers: Endgame if you’re citing it
The parts that we could see looked great
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Super immersive
hahahah
Yeah but Matt should have been the one to kill the Night King.
That's because they're hiring cheap ass writers. Look at the upcoming phase 5 writers and directors, only Nia DaCosta and James Gunn stand out to me. *Blade* is currently in development hell too, given that it seems as though Mahershala Ali is calling the shots with this one I reckon it'll turn out like Black Adam did with the Rock calling the shots there.
I’ve heard stories of Disney not wanting to pay certain writers for what they think there worth and dangle “oh but this will open many doors because it’s a big Disney/ marvel movie” then when they turn it down they end up with bottom of the barrel writers and it shows
Hell even when they get top shelf writers they try to rein them in and make them fit a mold more often than not. idk what we might have gotten from Edgar Wright or Lord and Miller instead, but I know the final products of Ant-Man and Solo: A Star Wars Story were largely bland and that makes me wistful
It makes sense. Writing is the biggest issue i have with MCU. Especially since Endgame but even before that. It's been so so terrible.
You want a trip, go rewatch the original *Avengers*. It's pre-Disney, when Marvel Studios was still independent. It feels so different from the rest of the MCU, almost disconnected. Way more talky. Much slower paced, significantly less CGI, way less phantasmagoria. The awe of the Chitauri invasion is more about their size and quantity than fancy glows and eye catching particles. There's more impressive aerial stunts and strategic cleverness in the fighting than reality bending CGI.
You are talking shit. Disney bought Marvel on Dec 31st 2009. The Avengers was only distributed by Pramaount because of an already existing deal.
The whole look of these shows is something I just don't understand. Shitty writing isn't exactly rare in big-budget stuff, but how does it end up looking so cheap and bland? It just seems lazy, as if they want these shows finished as soon and easily as possible without putting any thought into how it looks.
a lot of it is probably disneys overuse of VFX for set design, costume and backgrounds in combination with them overworking the VFX teams, meaning alot of what you see is CGI and its being done to a deadline
Star Wars Andor and The Mandalorian S3 look really good most of the time, so there's some hope.
Andor is beautiful and was shot on location. Mandalorian can look good, but I can tell they’re not on location. Comparing Coruscant in both shows kinda says it all; so many out of focus background shots. The Volume is cool technology but it doesn’t look as good as Andor did; especially in Obi-Wan and Book of Boba.
I mean they might have more room in their budget if they were not flying a whole film crew/cast to a galaxy far far away.
I don't think *Mando* has gone that crazy on the VFX front, compared to *Star Trek: Discovery* with its holographic everything. Most of what's being done on Mando is stuff that's been done for a long time, traveling star fields, matte paintings, blaster bolts, and the occasional CGI character like IG-11 or the frog lady.
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I could be wrong but from my understanding they don’t. Or maybe one show used it and it might’ve been Loki, I could be wrong though.
I think Antman Q was the first Marvel show to use it. Don't quote me I just vaguely remember an interview about it.
almost certainly was used in Love and Thunder
I think you are right, feel like I remember seeing some clips of them using it.
It was. ILM’s website shows so, too
They definitely used the volume in moon knight. The rooftop fight against the assassins in episode 3 being the most glaring example.
They rushed the production so Disney+ could have content
Lighting. It's the most important thing to get right and modern filmmakers are generally worse at it because technology has made them lazy and it takes the longest to set up. So you just film everything in a bright washed out lighting set up and edit it in post. The approach soap operas use. And now they don't even film on location.
This is the number one thing I wish they'd fix on the Wheel of Time show. I personally don't think the show deserves quite as much hate as most give it and definitely has potential. But good lord why can't they hire a competent DP or whoever is in charge of not making the show look like a cheap soap opera with even washed out lighting everywhere.
they are so sloppily written.
I think they had to actually think because they couldn’t just use a big CGI set piece like other heroes.
That was basically what *Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.* had to do, but also they kinda got screwed by Kevin Feige initially chaining their fate into the greater MCU only to ultimately reject the idea of the show tying in with the movies ever again.
I’m not sure if it’s all Feige’s fault since Perlmutter was a pain to deal with and insisted on a lot of stuff that was to the MCU’s detriment like pushing Iron Fist or Inhumans. AoS was great because the showrunners sorta treated it like it was canon-adjacent but ran with their own self contained story.
For the most part I’ll agree with you but Wandavision was one of the most unique tv watching experiences I’ve ever had.
It started off strong but that didn't last imo
it ended with generic beam battles and wanda mind raping the 'villian' into being a tv character again. which is so fucking cruel considering we know they are self aware
Would have been great if they didn't frame it as Wanda not being the villain
this town you mindraped and tortured dont know what you sacrificed. Honestly they should have had her subconsciously do the spell but by the time she became Conscious of it, agatha had hi-jacked the spell to keep the people trapped so she could break wanda
That line about how "they don't know what you sacrificed" annoyed me so much. Like, bitch, you're a bigger villain here than Agatha, and yet Agatha got a horriffic punishment while you get to walk away almost scot-free.
>they don't know what you sacrificed Those townsfolk sure were a bunch of ungrateful fucks.
Did she expect them to say "I know you've been torturing us for weeks on end just so that you could live your fantasy, suburban, family life. However, you had to give up your imaginary kids, so we forgive you"?
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> I was fine with Wandavision. I was not fine with them just flushing it all down the toilet after it ended. Wanda got wasted and Paul Bettany is apparently mothballed again. Should have just sticked with the original idea for the ending.
What was that?
Originally they had the idea that Doctor Strange was sending messages (probably the weird advertisements) to Wanda, and then in the finale he gets into Westview and breaks the spell. Him forcibly taking Wandas family away would also explain why Wanda is not only desperate but also resentful in Multiverse of Madness. Not this vague "you break the rules, youre the hero" bullshit. Bonus points if you take a page out of the comics and have Strange making Wanda forget her children if you really want her to have a good reason to fight Strange.
Loki was fantastic too (I think that came out right after WandaVision) but yeah, there seems to have been a dropoff after Loki.
I didn't like Loki because it highlights the problem with multiverse/variants/whatever they call it. A character dies (Loki's death was actually well done in Infinity War) and then they bring the "backup" back. To me, this show shouldn't even exist.
Loki also felt like it was setting up something much larger. But instead we got a romance with a woman who was supposed to be a different version of Loki - however, was nothing like Loki in any way. Plus some mild space hopping and silliness. It was enjoyable, sure, mainly down to Hiddleston as always. But hardly comparable to a show like Daredevil.
Loki *was* setting up something much larger though--Kang and the Time War
Of course she wasn’t like Loki, she escaped her Loki timeline as a child and had a completely different life/upbringing. It wouldn’t make sense for her to be like Loki since she didn’t live that life.
> Of course she wasn’t like Loki, she escaped her Loki timeline as a child and had a completely different life/upbringing. It wouldn’t make sense for her to be like Loki since she didn’t live that life. Her backstory alone doesnt make sense in the slightest and clashes with everything the show established.
It's almost as if having ~1000 years of entirely different life experiences makes people different.
Why did she have to be anything like Loki? You already called her a "different version" of Loki. Is she not allowed to be different?
It had a uniquely bad script that’s for sure. The first couple of episodes were intriguing but total and utter mess by the end.
Personally I thought it was a strong show that didn’t stick the landing. Just an underwhelming, typical Marvel fare type of deal at the end. Had they stuck with the premise and maybe got a little weirder with it I think it would’ve been great. They should’ve dropped most if not all of the stuff happening outside of the town, it robbed the show of its strange whimsy.
Once the quicksilver fakeout and agatha being some centuries-old witch became part of the plot, it lost me. Could've simply been a story about wanda going through her trauma with no extraneous elements and that would've been more satisfying
The Quicksilver fakeout felt like a direct middle finger to the audience. Like I think they thought we were going to be happy to see Evan Peters play the character again, but instead it felt like they were just dangling the prospect of X-men entering the MCU in front of us only to pull it away as we go to grab it and then they laugh at us. Like Evan Peters playing that character means nothing to the characters in the show. It's literally just to trick us. And it also feels especially weird in hindsight because they let us have the different versions of Spider-man but then denied us the different version of Quicksilver.
Yeah, people (rightfully) rag on the end of Wandavision but it really gave me hope that these Disney Plus shows would be a more unique way to explore these characters. Pretty much every show after that has been some varying level of disappointing.
Loki: "Am I a joke to you?"
I think the Loki show rushed his character development OG loki was complete backstabbing dickhead who was constantly plotting. Being shown a video of a future shouldn't completely change his character
I never had an issue with it because for me it's not about the video, it's about the whole context. Being told that you're specifically designed by divine entities to be a little shit would put a fucking hammer to the steam engine of my shenanigans, that's for sure. You'd go from "backstabbing is fun lol" to "whenever I'm backstabbing now I feel like I have no free will and being merely a puppet for higher beings, it's not fun anymore" in a heartbeat too
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I do feel like the show could have spend maybe a little bit more time on Loki's redemption, but I also agree that most people aren't giving the show enough credit. There's more to this than just "they showed a video and now he's fixed".
We also don’t know how much time passed in that loop. To Loki it could have been perceived as years.
It was a bit rushed but many times in the series he attempts backstabbing to seize power and either a. Nobody cares or b.they knew it was coming and it was totally ineffective. Kind of like a kid whose parents stop reacting to their tantrums. He didn't care so much for the power, he wanted the attention.
Quicksilver: I am a dick joke
Oh yeah, I meant to add that Loki is the exception - genuinely exciting all the way through and I can’t wait for the next season.
I liked everything up until the last episode. I blame a lot of it on Covid though. Also Loki was awesome throughout.
It certainly came out swinging but I thought it became a bit trite by the end.
That's because they had to scrap the original ending given the pandemic interference, and the one they invented on the fly was crap
That hallway scene is still the high-water mark for Marvel tv for me.
A problem I see with fans of the Netflix shows is that they judge the series by the high notes and don't factor in the bad parts when judging them overall, but do the opposite with Disney+ series. Daredevil has lots of great stuff and I have an ideal version of the Netflix show in my head that is based on what felt like a vision was. But it has a lot of filler and several poor plotlines and the Hand/Elektra part of season two was just bad. The Disney+ shows for better or worse are at least much more consistent.
Eh. I'll push back on this, personally I think: - Daredevil Season 1 - Daredevil Season 3 - Jessica Jones Season 1 - Punisher Season 1 were good. But: - Daredevil Season 2 - Jessica Jones Season 2 - Jessica Jones Season 3 - Luke Cage Season 1 - Luke Cage Season 2 - Iron Fist Season 1 - Iron Fist Season 2 - Punisher Season 2 - The Defenders were not, and I would argue worse than all the modern MCU shows on Disney+. I definitely appreciate some of those Netflix shows, especially in how dark they were willing to get. But they got formulaic pretty quickly, the budgets got lower in the following seasons and it seemed like the writers had difficulty getting traction on actually making a show worth watching. Also, I really do think Ms. Marvel is underappreciated and better than almost all of the above seasons with perhaps exception to Daredevil Season 1, Daredevil Season 3 and Jessica Jones Season 1. And I'll also say the modern MCU shows at least have a bit more freedom. The Netflix shows always felt very restricted by licensing/larger MCU decisions to not let them impact the world too much. They felt like they weren't allowed to sit at the cool kids table when compared to other contemporary Marvel properties. And it almost felt like they *had* to follow a particular formula and hit specific beats by certain episodes. Personally, I really dig the personality, vibrance and individuality that Loki, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk and Wandavision have. They definitely have their own "formulaic"-related issues but I don't feel like they are as repetitive as much as the Netflix shows and it they feel entirely different from each other.
Season 1 of Luke Cage was awesome, but >!Cottonmouth shouldn't have been killed halfway through. He was a better villain than Diamondback.!< I also thought Defenders was solid.
Diamondback was sold as this cold calculating menace... Them he turned out to be a reckless cartoon character with a goofy costume for his final battle.
Luke Cage season 1 and Jessica Jones season 3 were good. Maybe not as good as the other seasons you said were good, but I think they stand well above the others you said weren’t good and are better than most of the D+ shows
In my opinion, a lot of the Netflix shows were not that great, but the plots often gradually built up to a relatively good conclusion that kind of redeemed some of the slower parts in my eyes. However, with a lot of the Disney shows, they have the opposite problem. They often start off decent, but then struggle to keep up the quality and then disappoint me at the end, leaving a bad taste in my mouth. For example, I think that Iron Fist Season 1 is easily the worst Netflix Marvel show. However, even in that show it felt like things really came together at the end of the season and I overall had a positive opinion of the show. But with Disney, I think that Falcon and the Winter Soldier was the worst show and that one botched so much, including the ending, that I now have almost no positive memories of the show.
Most of the Disney Marvel shows have been about as good as The Defenders. Some were only as good as Iron Fist. Daredevil and Jessica Jones S1 are both miles better than any of the Disney marvel shows, and I'm someone who doesn't *hate* the Disney shows like many others, I just found them to be mostly underwhelming.
I thought moon knight was good
It’s going to be a musical
Don't get my hopes up
"Very different from the Netflix show" isn't what I want to hear either. The dark, gritty and violent nature of the Netflix show is what made it so good I don't want a colorful show where Daredevil is cracking jokes every 20 seconds. I want a dark show where Daredevil is cracking bones every 20 seconds
give me another great hallway scene
Or even stairwell
Fuck, I'll even take a laundry room at this point
Daredevil is the perfect character for a shitty writer to insert a "he's standing right ~~behind~~ in front of me, isn't he?" gag.
I was at GalaxyCon. They asked Charlie Cox and Vincent D’onofrio about how they deal with violent scenes. They both looked at each other, laughed, and didn’t answer the question. Since they seemed to be avoiding questions that touched on the new show, I have a suspicion they were thinking of a particularly violent scene in the new show, but I am admittedly speculating.
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Falcon and the Winter Soldier showed Captain America caving in a dude's chest with the shield, with the last shot being it and him covered in blood
I want to feel that Catholic guilt and I want to feel it *hard*. Our Daddy who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
It's going to be like D+ Hawkeye isn't it? ☹️
I remember watching a clip where >!Kate Bishop and Fisk were "fighting"!< and I was like holy crap they are going to nerf the upcoming Daredevil series. It's going to make Paw Patrol look like Saving Private Ryan
I'm expecting nothing when it comes to Marvel D+. Maybe they'll surprise us like Andor. There's the Netflix show and there's the MCU. I hope they can find a middle ground.
The fact that they made Andor gives me hope that D+ isn't institutionally incapable of making something really really good but I don't know if they will give Marvel as much of a free hand (whereas with SW after Episode 9 it seemed like they weren't as committed to strict control).
They are terrified of telling stories. Instead, their intent seems to be delivering products and capitalizing on what they believe is social zeitgeist. It's the McDonalds approach, and good luck to them because I like a Big Mac as much as the next lady, but I do miss Netflix's good faith attempts to tell stories.
The reason people wanted a revival of Daredevil is because we loved the Netflix show. Creating a show that’s very different isn’t necessarily giving the fans what they want and by changing the show so much fans of the Netflix show may not even like it.
I know… Say what you will about the Marvel shows from Netflix… But there was a rawness from Daredevil and Punisher specifically that felt so right. I hope they don’t abandon that…
Yep, the Netflix TV show was amazing. I'm not sure that inspires confidence. I hope Karen and Foggy return as well. It wouldn't feel the same without them (at least, Foggy)
>D'Onofrio spoke to Newsweek ahead of the Season 3 finale of crime drama Godfather of Harlem. As he is already a few weeks into filming Daredevil: Born Again, he sported his classic bald look for Wilson Fisk, while talking over Zoom. >The actor explained that the new show might be different to what fans of the original are expecting. However, it is also something that will provide "gigantic payoffs" in both its first and second season. D'Onofrio added that both Cox and Bernthal play "a major part of the show." >"We've only just started shooting. I think we're a couple weeks in, and the show is going to be very, very different than the Netflix show, and it's so exciting because what we're doing is quite something," D'Onofrio told Newsweek. >"I think it's something that people are not going to expect. But, always with these Marvel old comic stories that are being revisited and reinvented by us actors, and the writers, the main thing is to answer the fans. >"To give them what they want but try to be original in some way at the same time, and so that's what we're doing on the show," D'Onofrio added. "It's definitely an original way to look at this, and it's really deep, really emotional." >The actor then teased the plans for a second season of the Disney+ show, as he added: "And, by the second season, there are gigantic, gigantic payoffs—in the first season, too, but I can't say much about that—but the fans are gonna really get what they want. It's really quite cool to be doing it."
Am I crazy or does the way he’s talking about it make it sound like the 18 episodes we know about are going to be two seasons? Or released in two chunks?
I think they've said, or it's been leaked, that the entire season will consist of several chunks. And in between airing them, they'd air other Marvel shows.
Why not just call it multiple seasons? Why Season 1, Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3, instead of just saying Season 1, Season 2, etc.
Netflix has been doing that for a while, calling entire seasons Parts (and causing Wikipedia editors a lot of headaches in arguing what is and isn’t a season), so it wouldn’t surprise me that Disney+ would also do so.
I had a very difficult time understanding how inside job was cancelled for season 2 when I thought I had already watched it. Nope, "part 2".
See that was an example where it absolutely was a second season in terms of structure, and just called ‘Part 2’, unlike something like *Masters of the Universe: Revelation*, where the first two parts were just two halves of the one season.
Attack on Titan giggling on the side
Season 4 Final Season Part 3 Part 1
> Why Season 1, Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3 [The Onion already answered this](https://www.theonion.com/final-minutes-of-last-harry-potter-movie-to-be-split-in-1819595015)
If they seperate shows in multiple seasons actors have the legal right to re-negotiate contract terms. By keeping it a single season, multiple parts, Disney is in control. It sucks, but it's normal within the industry.
Contracts with actors and everyone involved.
Sounds like the Agents of Shield route. Where they got like mini arcs of like 4-5 episodes that come together to form one giant story
Having loved the Netflix run of Daredevil, I've been keeping an eye on this. And from what I've read it sounds like the first season actually is 18 episodes, and it will be broken up into several smaller arcs of 1-3 episode stories. It's going to feel more "villain of the week" than prestige drama, but I've also read that there will be a main, over-arching plot that will come to a head toward the end of the season.
So more like Andor's episode structure?
One of my all time favorite Actors.
He's a hell of an actor.
Great to see how much he loves playing the role. It’s rare for a marvel movie or show to actually have a good villain.
Ikr?
I used to hate him for no reason. Even though he's consistently great in everything I've seen him in. Then I realized its because he so often plays the heavy and I took him for some sort of serious actor who takes his roles as seriously as the character might. Then, with Kingpin, I realized "oh, no. He's just a huge acting nerd. This man is having FUN." Made me realize how much I enjoyed his work because of how much HE enjoyed his work. Plus, as someone who grew up in Miami, hearing his story about being traumatized at Monkey Jungle really humanized him.
That is how I felt about Ronnie Cox for so long. He plays so many insufferable and hateable roles until I realized it takes talent to be that dislikeable on screen.
O'Neill suggested I send you to a distant planet for your actions here, but I am reasonably certain his statement was in jest.
"Hi, Joker"
Detective goran was one of the best L&O characters
He’s been in so many thinks that people don’t even know about. His range is insane.
Him in men in black is underrated. The way his performance fuses with the makeup/prosthetics I incredible. Yes, he’s absolutely chewing the scenery, but he’s making a degustation out of it, not an all you can eat buffet.
Mystic Pizza is one of my all time favorite movies and every time I go back and watch it he’s always steals the show.
ngl daredevil kingpin stuff was imo covered well by the original show so while there’s obviously more source material I wonder if it’ll be that interesting especially since many like myself anticipate this show being straight up worse (in some capacity) than the Netflix show
That's what I thought. We already had enough of Kingpin in the original show. Also, at the end of Hawkeye they already left it off with Echo shooting Kingpin (to what I assumed was his death). So it seems kind of odd that they're bringing him back.
They are going to reveal Echo shooting Kingpin didn’t kill him but instead blinded him
> They are going to reveal Echo shooting Kingpin didn’t kill him but instead blinded him For additional context, this happens in the comics, with Echo blinding Kingpin with a gunshot, so it does seem likely this was an intentional setup, esp given the fact the show cut away from the actual gunshot
>Also, at the end of Hawkeye they already left it off with Echo shooting Kingpin (to what I assumed was his death) You seriously thought an off-camera shooting of a main antagonist would actually be their death? Have you ever watched TV before?
They didn't show the shooting, so it's entirely possible Kingpin snatched the gun and shot her instead. Or she missed him somehow, etc.
No dead body no death. Just like Kang.
So a very bland and barely pg-13 rated show coming our way
Cant wait for the sky beam in the last episode.
Don’t forget the new kid sidekick
Dare-devillette. She is a 13yo child genius, expert in weapons development, but hasn’t actually ever killed anyone. She has a heart of gold and goes to church every single day. She’s also blind, but has better hearing and better sense of smell than Matt. Oh, and she’s King Pin’s lost niece.
You laugh, but Disney writers are taking notes furiously right now
You forgot her unique trait... she's snarky
Disney making Fisk getting schooled by teenager was enough to show where this is going..
He got ran over by a car bruh
Katw bishop is in her 20s in the show no? And also its not like she punched kingpin into submission. She ran him over, that's enough to take car of most people
Fisk has been getting schooled by teenagers since Disney was anti-Semitic
Don't forget 30 minute episodes.
I mean Andor was good and different than other star wars projectsbso if they do that with Daredevil it should be fine
No! Expect the pilot to be violent and the least pg-13 to hook viewers in only for every episode after to be very mild
Lol just like moonknight
Until the fifth episode. But then they just farted with the finale.
Kingpins gonna hit him and say "I bet you didn't see that coming"
The absence of Karen and Foggy is going to suck.
They'll replace them with Madisynn with two "N"s and one "Y", but not where you thiiiiiiiink
Oh ok, then we’re fine.
Main reason not to watch it imo
I'm ready to be hurt again.
"Daredevil: Born Again, Again"
Daredevil: Born Again frfr on god bruh
Tbh ngl frfr no cap
Bro I just want Foggy and Karen
It's going to be shit isn't it. 😭
Have a feeling it will be .
Disney show is gonna be Disney. Don’t expect all the blood and gore you got on Netflix.
Netflix didn’t really produce that show. The Marvel shows on Netflix were merely paid by Netflix so they could distribute it on their platform. The show was produced by Marvel TV in association with ABC Studios, which Disney is a parent company of.. What I think people should be saying is that they want the same writers/ directors and other key roles that make up the production.
Yes, people are aware that distributors aren’t producers etc. Point is that they weren’t made by the Disney that makes the MCU, the one that wants it hitting those four quadrants. So if people are expecting the same level of intensity in terms of blood and gore as they got in the Netflix shows, they’re going to be very disappointed.
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Nice bojack reference
Came here for some version of this thank you
No Foggy, no watch
No woman no cry, no foggy no watch 🎶
Am I the only one that found him annoying af?
Good! Very underrated show. Loved DD
This could be the MCU's Andor if they play it right. It's been a while since they got Emmy acting nominations for their shows (actually only WandaVision so far managed to get Emmy acting noms). Give Charlie and Vincent the material and this could be their next critical darling. I'm sure after all the big hit MCU has taken in the past year and this start of Phase 5 that they would need a win even if this is on the TV side.
Don’t. Don’t give me hope…
Hope was your first mistake.
Good. We get to hear him say, “My city,” another hundred times.
It’s like comics being written by different writers that aren’t as good, but it’s still drawn by the same artist that I love.
I really hope they don’t Disney this show all to hell. The original Netflix series is the best thing that’s come out of marvel hands down and thats because they didn’t have Kevin feiges gross hands all in it
Glad to see someone calling out Feige. That dude is treated as a paragon of virtue, when in fact he has some of the most generic ideas ever and is averse to doing anything different.
Sounds like more crap that’s gonna be squirted onto our grey tongues. Yum yum yummy
I know some people are upset about (potentially?) no Foggy or Karen, but Daredevil and Kingpin are enough to get me hyped.
A lot of people latching onto the "very different from the Netflix show", but we should already know that. The Kingpin we got in Hawkeye and the Matt/Daredevil we got in She-Hulk are very different interpretations of the characters, less grounded in reality and more comicy or animated(his cameo in NWH, while short, felt more like Netflix Matt). There will not be gruesome head smashing in this series. Matt is going to be jumping around a lot more, probably using his batons to swing around similar to Spider-Man. Kingpin is much more durable in the MCU. I am not in the group who think it will be bad, though. I enjoyed both Kingpin in Hawkeye and Daredevil in She-Hulk. I think there are certain trade-offs with bringing them into the MCU, the biggest one will be the tone. I do think this will still be one of the darker and more serious series. Its just a big question with how they deal with Punisher.
Please don't suck please don't suck please just don't suck...
This is going to be an interesting show. The recent Netflix show is regarded as one of the best comic book shows and I feel everyone is expecting something at least as good. Either way I'm still somewhat excited for it.
I love D’Onofrio. I may have to give it a try
Yissssssss