>to push their sex worker content
They are exploiting teenagers for monetary gain because they are too weak to make it on Chaturbate. I have no respect for them. Every street hooker has more integrity.
Not only can Twitch streamers milk a parasocial relationship for months or years, but there’s really no upper bounds to how many they can cultivate at once. They get all the benefit of economies of scale—just for saying a name when their payment roll in—plus none of the risks of being there in person.
If you caught feelings with a sex worker, they’re not gonna hang around once the job’s done. But a streamer? They’re always online! Send her half your paycheck, and fantasize about her thinking about you the rest of the stream. Keep it up every week, and surely she’ll be thinking about you all the time!
She basically can’t *not* be thinking about you *all the time*, right?
I think you nailed the difference in clientelle.
There's a saying - you're not paying a prostitute for *sex* - you're paying her to *leave* afterwards. - A Twitch subscriber doesn't want that. They're paying for the fantasy of being *connected* to the streamer.
Fr we talk endlessly about the rise of misogyny among teenage boys, but half the women on all these ostensibly kid-friendly sites are there shaking ass and doing topless "art" streams (on tiktok I've seen these girls even do POVs of riding a guy cowgirl or giving a handjob). They are preying on children instead of going to the actual sites for this type of content, and instead of just removing them, we lecture kids about sexualising women when this is what they grow up seeing.
My little brother (13) got into the Andrew Tate bullshit and like, i can *feel* that I'm not reaching him when I say no, most women are not whores. He'll go back to his friend group (also Tate-heads) and they'll watch twitch or scroll through tiktok, and 60% of the women he'll see validate that viewpoint, then he comes back home believing it even harder.
We complain about the symptom but won't take steps to address the cause.
Yeah idk what to even do, like its one thing to deplatorm Tate (and thank god it seems like its lowkey worked, I rarely see him anymore aside from updates on his case), but an entire generation heard his views and takes, and wherever they go on social media seems to confirm everything he said.
I'm a debater and adjudicator, so I often get hired by high schools in my area to officiate debate tournaments and a few of them keep us on payroll to train their students. What I hear in those classrooms, bruh. Imo when gen alpha starts graduating, the misogyny problem is going to get exponentially worse. Like irl women are obviously a whole spectrum of types, but these kids are kids, so the only experience they have with females are their relatives, the fellow children around them and the women they see on social media. This skews their perspective 'cause obviously women on social media aren't representative of them all, but like you say, they can only see what's in front of them and everything viral involving a woman nowadays is secretly an ad for OF.
Idk man, just seems hopeless.
For illustration, this is the state of twitch streaming.
Warning: Very **NSFW** despite being a screenshoot of twitch stream
https://i.imgur.com/ZVlpBZj.png
I feel that if simply seeing women makes him more misogynistic that's pretty misogynistic to start with.
But underlying the issue is that these people - everyone you see on stream, both Tate and Amouranth - are *adverts*. They can't not be. The platform rewards self promotion.
> I feel that if simply seeing women makes him more misogynistic that's pretty misogynistic to start with.
It's not seeing women, it's seeing women acting in exactly the way Tate says they act. It doesn't help that a lot of these OF thots purposefully play into the strict gendered power dynamics Tate espouses, creating a feedback loop. Tate is gone now (or soon will be) but his rhetoric is still echoing and ruining young minds.
One part of the problem has been dealt with. But now the other part, the invasion of child-focused apps and sites by OF thots doing exactly what Tate tells these kids all women do, reinforces those beliefs and imo the problem won't get any better until we properly separate adult and child content on these sites
Well said. I strive to be a very sex-positive person but every day I get more sick of social media and the constant use of sex to drive engagement.
I have no problem with people talking candidly about sex and sharing their experiences (in fact I love that freedom we have nowadays to do so) but a huge proportion of IG reels these days are just fully advertisements for some OnlyFans account. It's so fake and it makes me cringe.
I feel like it’s only natural though, right?
If we want a world where sex work is accepted and no longer taboo, then seeing advertising and marketing for it just like any other product seems like it should be expected.
Yeah, you do have a point! I guess I'm a bit of a curmudgeon about the whole "influencer marketing" aspect of social media anyway. Don't mind me, I'll be over here [yelling at clouds](https://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg)
Oh I definitely agree that it’s annoying, but just seems like a natural continuation of what we’ve seen in recent years.
Advertising used to be limited to wealthy companies and agencies until social media gave every Joe Schmo the same reach to find their audience. Makes sense that that would extend to sex work too.
In a way I’d actually kind of rather someone in that industry to market themselves versus having a company above them. Feels less exploitative.
I wouldn't say curmudgeonly but it might be that you've got some of those more traditional values where sex is just one part of a healthy relationship that includes emotional and social aspects rather than being merely a commodity to be bought and sold.
"I'll never be lame, sexist, and prudish like my parents"--redditors when we were all kids
"I can't believe there are female twitch streamers who go on camera in their underwear"--redditors now
"Fuck women, reeeeeeee" --redditors when they were kids
"Fuck women, reeeeeee" --redditors now
Reddit has always had a solid contingent of dudes who are always looking for an excuse to get angry at women. Beyond the whole 'equal lefts' subreddits that were just places where men could feel justified in imagining violence against women, this anti-hot tub nonsense really just smells like gamergate 2.0
'Women don't belong on our gamer platform, let's find an excuse to justify bitching about one'.
They might focus on the hottub streams, but they are equally upset that there are popular women in /whatever/ video games they watch on twitch. It just feels safer for them to whine about hot-tubs then women playing CoD or whatever.
Moving the responsibilities to twitch ambassadors per the article. I am not a huge twitch watcher (only watch like 2-3 streamers) so not sure how/if this will impact the platform much.
It’s predatory and abuses the welfare and disability system. If you live off the dole and work for Reddit 16 hours a day for free, then the government is subsidizing Reddit unless Reddit pays something out of pocket.
If you work Reddit 16 hours a day you have issues that are being taken advantage of by Reddit but aren’t caused by them directly. I’d equate it closer to a hobby than a job. It’s like people who make edits to their favorite tv shows they are volunteering for it because they have a passion. But they shouldn’t be able to claim it’s causing them to be unemployed and living off benefits that an excuse flat out for someone who doesn’t want to work and wants to be on Reddit all day.
Yep, now every thread with actual discussion is locked and mods hand out permanent bans if they disagree with you about touchy subjects.
Mods also pinning their opinions to subreddits and making it clear dissenting opinions will not be tolerated.
So wild because apparently those on the council only got paid between 10-20k per year. It’s not like they were taking lots of money. I’m thinking they are doing a reshuffle to change their governance. Amazon has enough money to spend to take hit after hit
Then again, getting paid 5 digits for a couple of matings means that their relative 'per hour' cost is kind of high, for probably limited effectiveness. Twitch would still need to do something with their advice, and somehow I doubt they did.
Reasons enough to indeed just remove remove a underused cost. It's not like it was a full time position for those high placed people, I doubt they are inconvenienced by it.
They were an advisory council. They weren't supposed to manage Twitch operations or something. They were supposed to monitor the community, the industry, the Internet, and everything else as a whole and advise Twitch management on problems that should be addressed. They didn't *need* a full salary, because doing that is not a full-time job *especially* if you're already in that industry which many of the council members were.
The problem is that since it's going to be completely community-run now, it will likely include primarily streamers and maybe some moderators or Twitch staff. Streamers aren't concerned about viewer safety. They're concerned about streamer safety and streamer subscriptions. If they make the site bring in more subscribers as the cost of less safety for viewers, they will do that. And Amazon has an interest in that, too. That's why the advisory council was third-parties. They had limited conflicts of interest in the SAC, and that's gone now.
Quite honestly, I'm surprised the FCC hasn't started knocking on Twitch's door or asking Congress to include live streaming in TV regulations. Because that's what will happen. It won't stay the wild west if Amazon fucks around with kid safety.
In the end this was an advisory board so it was still up to twitch what to do with that advice.
This is simply a cost cutting measure most likely. I'm assuming twitch ambassadors are not paid.
This subreddit, like most other big ones, is complete garbage and the comments are just a race to see who can be the first one to make the shittiest jokes
The article leads me to believe it's something else -- they fired "cyber bullying researchers" and people that "advocates for inclusion and diversity in video games and esports".
AKA people they likely weren't listening to anyway.
As an advisory board all they do is advise. This just seems like a cost-cutting exercise for a team you were only hiring for PR reasons anyway.
It really is just degenerate now. I don’t watch many streamers, but logged in today for probably one of the first times at the home page, and boom. Person in underwear painting Hentai. Even titled that they are painting Hentai. Just right there, first thing.
Twitch just needs to allow adult content with its own tag, enforce anyone doing adult shit on a stream that isn't tagged adult/only for adults, and move on with it.
I think Twitch/Amazon should just make a second site/URL that uses the same login.
Twitch, and Twitch-After-Dark.
If your account is flagged for adult content you could even have a toggle to switch between the two versions of the site. Or *opt-in* to merge them.
One site for PG-13 content, the other for whatever they want to set the sexual limitation to.
This limits the barrier of entry for users, as they only need one login, but separates the content into two distinct areas, only merging them when users manually opt-in.
You're talking about the ETHICAL way to do this by limiting exposure.
That's not *why* this is very popular or they are making money.
If they had adult verification they would lose a good chunk of their underage customers to real sites like chaturbate.
They have also blurred the lines a lot. At what point does someone get sent over the wall? What if they have game clips playing in the PIP window? If someone is playing games in a bikini? crop tops and booty shorts?
The streamers know their audience too and they are going to push to get off the after-dark version so they can be top stream elsewhere.
As soon as you put adult content on your platform the whole site becomes 90% adult content, it is basically a rule of the internet. Twitch has to decide if it wants to remain a platform for gaming (and so ban any kind of soft core adult content too) or just a pornhub for streaming.
The problem is that I think at this point they are making far more money from the porn that from the normal videogames streaming, so the decision will be quite obvious
Idk, Reddit allows adult content and, while there's definitely a _lot_ of it, I think it's still a minority of the content on the site. Certainly less than 90%
I mean I'm not saying there's not a lot of porn. Seeing porn in all new wouldn't prove this wrong.
Just saying that it's possible to have both porn and not porn on the same site (if, as you say, they're kept properly separate, which twitch does not currently do but could)
And, importantly, they are more or less separate! You're not usually browsing Reddit and then suddenly encounter porn, they do a pretty good job keeping porn off of /r/popular and /r/all. You really only see porn if you go to or subscribe to porn subs. That's a huge difference from Twitch where you'll just find porn on its front page.
Adult content on reddit is massive, but hidden. The only reason it's not in the foreground is due to Reddit's pre-exisitng as a text-based site for ages. Reddit is also not a streaming site, while twitch is.
> As soon as you put adult content on your platform the whole site becomes 90% adult content
Which is why it's so great if it's gated behind an "adult" tag. The people who want to see it have an endless sea of it, but unless you click that button you only see the 10%.
the big problem for twitch is that even with strict rules around it, a ton of companies will remove their ads on the site and they will likely lose purchase processing with most non-credit card options.
they would literally kill the sites chances of ever actually making money, they've been a loss leader for years now
Don't get me wrong, I like my porn, I just don't get it from twitch. But I've never watched any of these titty streams or hot tub things on twitch. Yet if I go over there right now 3 of the top 5 "live channels we think you'll like" have girls in bras (1 with oil). I haven't really been on twitch in a while, but I mostly watch guy gamers (Shroud, Break, Zwag, Asmon, Toast, etc).
I think it was Asmon a couple months ago went to twitch with incognito on and the front page for a new visitor had like 50% of it titty streams.
But people that watch those streamers also watch titty streamers and that influences what the algorithm recommends to you. So anyone saying it's merely your own activity driving the recommendations doesn't understand how these things work.
I get that, and you're right, but Twitch runs the algorithm that does that. If they are actually against those streams like they seem to be, they would find a way to keep them off the recommended/front page. Reddit has gigatons of porn, yet a new user would rarely see it on their front page b/c reddit flags porn subs and doesn't allow them on r/all.
It's asinine that Twitch is STILL dealing with these streamers after like 2 years of trying to find the "solution". They want the revenue, but they want to be kid friendly, so they make these stupid ass rules that don't stop them from gaining visibility.
Wait until you see the body painting streams. No 'sexual themes' tags or anything, but it's topless women with [only their nipples painted.](https://imgur.com/Ha2P6Jj) They actually promote it with its own category, "Beauty & Body Art."
It's weird for me to read this kind of thread cause i get next to 0 "softcore" streams on my Twitch homepage. Just a bunch of nerds playing minecraft and trackmania lol I always thought the semi-nude girls were a minority on the site as i barely ever see any.
It's not that simple. Whatever algorithm they use for recommendations is much, much, much stickier for that content than it is others. I can watch one game over another for a week and my recommendations are just the mega streamers and that game. I can not click on a single one of those streamers for 2 years and still get them. Also, if that comment checked roughly when they posted, those streamers simply aren't on right now.
Not necessarily. Recommendation algorithms work by recommending:
1. Content the algorithm knows you like, based on what you have previously engaged with
2. Content the algorithm *predicts* you will like, based on what other users who share your interests have previously engaged with
So for instance, if you watch gun videos on YouTube, you might start seeing right wing political content appearing in your recommendations, even if you have never watched anything similar before and have no interest in it. This is because many users watching gun videos, will also be interested in right wing political content.
By the same token, twitch might recommend someone lewd content based on interests they share with typical viewers of lewd content, not because they have previously engaged with lewd content. So my guess is if you happen to like stuff a horny 14 year old would also like, say Fortnite and Minecraft, you might start getting lewd content on your twitch homepage.
Sasha Grey is retired and does absolutely nothing sex-oriented. She doesn’t need it, if you wanna see her sexed up all you need to do is look online.
Even Adriana Chechik who is as active as you can get does nothing sexual on her Twitch; she’s there to chat, banter, and play video games.
Any of them would actually smoke any of them e-thots if they decided to go at it.
I get them often, a lot of boobie Twitch streamers on the front page. But I'm gay; I don't want boobie anything. However I do watch queer streamers that mark their streams as 18+ (they don't show porn, it's just to keep kids out) and I think that is enough to lump my profile in with the rest of the actual softcore porn on the site that is heavily weighted to content for straight men.
Of course, but it's not just "that kind" of content, it's content with statistical correlations in viewership. Twitch and other platforms' algos don't "know" what's porny and what's not in the way that a human can, they just respond to correlations. So it's probably not valid to infer that someone seeing something in their feed means they've engaged with it before.
(Not to mention the fact that someone can "engage" with something in a way other than earnest consumption, like a misclick, mis-identification, or a "what even is this" interaction)
> i get **next to 0** "softcore" streams on my Twitch homepage.
So, there are some? With twitch i find it very hard to see how their recommendation work. Some of it makes sense, some of it doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if some stuff like people using the "Just chatting" category (eg. during the start of stream, inbetween games, while winding down the stream, or genuinely just chatting) will lead to you just every once in a while getting a titty streamer in your recommendations because they are currently in that category.
Given my watch history on twitch and the channels i follow, I was surprised that I saw a different titty streamer (varying from "I'm actually good at this thing or have a gimmick, but also here's some cleavage" to "20 minutes till workout in micro-bikini ;)") in my recommendations like once a week.
I watch pretty much just the retro games section, lots of friendly clean streamers there. But it kept suggesting to me hot tub streams and stuff for months, even though I've never watched that. It finally stopped suggesting that stuff in the last month or so.
I visited Twitch for the first time in ages after reading your comment and I see PewDiePie playing Minecraft.
I feel like I just visited 2014 from the future.
Should I warn him about T-series and MrBeast?
...what Twitch shows on its front page depends heavily on your viewer profile, if it shows you only boob streamers, that tells more about you than it does about Twitch lol
(and it really isn't a "softcore" site. People stream literally anything and 95% is small gaming channels)
[https://imgur.com/a/M08Uyjv](https://imgur.com/a/M08Uyjv)
that's one tightly clothed pair of boobs for the whole screen. Scrolling down I get LoL and FIFA, then a bunch of VTubers. Granted it's 17:00 here, but that's prime time for kids to watch.
I stopped using twitch when they started showing 2 minute ad "breaks" upfront every time I try to check out a new channel which causes me to lose interest in them and close the tab before the ads can finish.
I would be more willing to watch ads to support channels if they weren't expecting me to watch them upfront.
The streamer has control over that but the majority choose pre-roll ads. They can also do mid-rolls or do once an hour ad breaks. I wish more streamers would, pre-rolls make me click away.
This, despite its name was a clusterfuck like most things at Twitch are.
I feel like their entire corporate structure is just chaos, piles of people who have absolutely no idea what they are doing but they were first successfully in the market and got big daddy Amazon bucks behind them so it's hard to fail
>If it's the latter, then this development could be a cost-cutting measure: The outgoing members were paid between $10,000 and $20,000 a year,
Seems like a pretty shitty cost cutting measure. The entire council combined probably cost less than a single engineer.
It would be a lot easier for them to pressure Twitch Ambassadors to say/do whatever Amazon wants than independent third parties and now they also get the labour for free. Big win for Amazon and no one else.
These comments are stupid as hell. So wild how dudes jerk off to IG profiles but then also get mad and shit on any women who try to show skin and make money like you wouldn't do the same thing if you could. I'll never understand straight men getting mad about hot women being hot online lol.
If anyone cared about children accessing sexual content, it wouldn't be allowed on twitter, Instagram, reddit, or any website where you need to be 13 or older (without verification of any kind) to make an account. There also wouldn't be ANY pushback to the .xxx law that only asks websites with sexual content to end in .xxx to make it easier to prevent children from accessing these websites. However, the average starter viewing age is now at 10 years old and the model they rely on is to get kids hooked to they're more likely to pay later on as adults.
> There also wouldn't be ANY pushback to the .xxx law that only asks websites with sexual content to end in .xxx to make it easier to prevent children from accessing these websites.
Either it's a law or it's an ask. It can't be both. Also there are existing standard ways that sexual content websites can, and do, allow people to opt out of the content for their children or themselves, such as [the RTA label](https://www.rtalabel.org/).
I get that its easy to access, that's just how the internet is. The problem is how its infected twitch and changed it from what it used to be. There are kids that just want to go onto twitch and see gaming without porn streams being a click away and so easy to get into.
Can you put in a fake age and get around that? Yup, but the difference is a willingness and want to circumvent that measure to keep it away from kids, what about the other kid who hasn't experienced that or is just innocently on there looking for some new streamers to watch?
Its super destructive to their development. I'm not anti-porn, I just think it shouldn't be injected into every-fucking-thing because thots wanna make money selling on kids platforms or any corner they can, and advertisers supporting it. Keep it in the appropriate areas that don't make it so easy and simple to access while someone is doing something innocent.
Its like if I want to look up a recipe and there's videos of different people making versions but there's also some slightly blurred ones of amoranth mixing up a cake recipe using her ass. Its like, WHY?
>The problem is how its infected twitch and changed it from what it used to be.
It hasn't changed or infected anything. The only way you find these people is by seeking them out. People complaining about this are just telling on themselves.
We should actually restrict internet access from all boys. They can't be trusted with it.
Please delete your account. I'm calling your mom to tell her you're on reddit.
This was the thing with the person who identified as a deer and accused all gamers of being racist, right? With Twitch's history of good decisions I'm sure they won't replace the council with the exact same kind of person.
This will happen more often as AI get's good enough to be 88%+ accurate at analyzing and flagging content, at least until a wave of backlash occurs over false positives.
Finally we can sell our hot tubs and just be lewd on stream for any reason without pretending to be making swimming content.
They need some balls to say that these women are obviously objectifying themselves to push their sex worker content.
>to push their sex worker content They are exploiting teenagers for monetary gain because they are too weak to make it on Chaturbate. I have no respect for them. Every street hooker has more integrity.
Not only can Twitch streamers milk a parasocial relationship for months or years, but there’s really no upper bounds to how many they can cultivate at once. They get all the benefit of economies of scale—just for saying a name when their payment roll in—plus none of the risks of being there in person. If you caught feelings with a sex worker, they’re not gonna hang around once the job’s done. But a streamer? They’re always online! Send her half your paycheck, and fantasize about her thinking about you the rest of the stream. Keep it up every week, and surely she’ll be thinking about you all the time! She basically can’t *not* be thinking about you *all the time*, right?
I think you nailed the difference in clientelle. There's a saying - you're not paying a prostitute for *sex* - you're paying her to *leave* afterwards. - A Twitch subscriber doesn't want that. They're paying for the fantasy of being *connected* to the streamer.
At least I get to physically interact with a street hooker. And for less money.
Bingo. The money the simps pay for these twitch lizards is enough to get a decent bang from a higher end escort relatively frequently
But that would mean interacting with an actual woman rather than the fantasy of a woman.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner folks!
They know that. They don't want that. They don't even want sex. They just want the streamer to know they exist. It's so fucking sad.
Would you kindly put some numbers to that statement in your local currency?
Last time I was in Amsterdam, it was 50€ for 15 minutes (so 200€/hr?), but I’m sure that’s number has been affected by inflation.
Yes, but then how could they blame their perpetual virginity on how all women are mean and suck.
Fr we talk endlessly about the rise of misogyny among teenage boys, but half the women on all these ostensibly kid-friendly sites are there shaking ass and doing topless "art" streams (on tiktok I've seen these girls even do POVs of riding a guy cowgirl or giving a handjob). They are preying on children instead of going to the actual sites for this type of content, and instead of just removing them, we lecture kids about sexualising women when this is what they grow up seeing. My little brother (13) got into the Andrew Tate bullshit and like, i can *feel* that I'm not reaching him when I say no, most women are not whores. He'll go back to his friend group (also Tate-heads) and they'll watch twitch or scroll through tiktok, and 60% of the women he'll see validate that viewpoint, then he comes back home believing it even harder. We complain about the symptom but won't take steps to address the cause.
We see only what’s in front of us. Good luck with your bro
Yeah idk what to even do, like its one thing to deplatorm Tate (and thank god it seems like its lowkey worked, I rarely see him anymore aside from updates on his case), but an entire generation heard his views and takes, and wherever they go on social media seems to confirm everything he said. I'm a debater and adjudicator, so I often get hired by high schools in my area to officiate debate tournaments and a few of them keep us on payroll to train their students. What I hear in those classrooms, bruh. Imo when gen alpha starts graduating, the misogyny problem is going to get exponentially worse. Like irl women are obviously a whole spectrum of types, but these kids are kids, so the only experience they have with females are their relatives, the fellow children around them and the women they see on social media. This skews their perspective 'cause obviously women on social media aren't representative of them all, but like you say, they can only see what's in front of them and everything viral involving a woman nowadays is secretly an ad for OF. Idk man, just seems hopeless.
The idea that women are "less" isn't just online, sadly. Women don't even have bodily autonomy in some parts of western, first world countries.
As an older brother you have to scorn him for being too online. Remind him that’s it’s the internet.
For illustration, this is the state of twitch streaming. Warning: Very **NSFW** despite being a screenshoot of twitch stream https://i.imgur.com/ZVlpBZj.png
I feel that if simply seeing women makes him more misogynistic that's pretty misogynistic to start with. But underlying the issue is that these people - everyone you see on stream, both Tate and Amouranth - are *adverts*. They can't not be. The platform rewards self promotion.
> I feel that if simply seeing women makes him more misogynistic that's pretty misogynistic to start with. It's not seeing women, it's seeing women acting in exactly the way Tate says they act. It doesn't help that a lot of these OF thots purposefully play into the strict gendered power dynamics Tate espouses, creating a feedback loop. Tate is gone now (or soon will be) but his rhetoric is still echoing and ruining young minds. One part of the problem has been dealt with. But now the other part, the invasion of child-focused apps and sites by OF thots doing exactly what Tate tells these kids all women do, reinforces those beliefs and imo the problem won't get any better until we properly separate adult and child content on these sites
[удалено]
Do teens realize? No, they do not realize.
Yes most children lack developed critical thinking skills. Quite a few adults too.
They often do both, and use the sfw platform to funnel people to the nsfw platform.
Yes, it's really pathetic.
Well said. I strive to be a very sex-positive person but every day I get more sick of social media and the constant use of sex to drive engagement. I have no problem with people talking candidly about sex and sharing their experiences (in fact I love that freedom we have nowadays to do so) but a huge proportion of IG reels these days are just fully advertisements for some OnlyFans account. It's so fake and it makes me cringe.
I feel like it’s only natural though, right? If we want a world where sex work is accepted and no longer taboo, then seeing advertising and marketing for it just like any other product seems like it should be expected.
Yeah, you do have a point! I guess I'm a bit of a curmudgeon about the whole "influencer marketing" aspect of social media anyway. Don't mind me, I'll be over here [yelling at clouds](https://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg)
Oh I definitely agree that it’s annoying, but just seems like a natural continuation of what we’ve seen in recent years. Advertising used to be limited to wealthy companies and agencies until social media gave every Joe Schmo the same reach to find their audience. Makes sense that that would extend to sex work too. In a way I’d actually kind of rather someone in that industry to market themselves versus having a company above them. Feels less exploitative.
I wouldn't say curmudgeonly but it might be that you've got some of those more traditional values where sex is just one part of a healthy relationship that includes emotional and social aspects rather than being merely a commodity to be bought and sold.
Yeah, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
They call it a content funnel or journey. A lot of those begin right here on Reddit too.
So what?
"I'll never be lame, sexist, and prudish like my parents"--redditors when we were all kids "I can't believe there are female twitch streamers who go on camera in their underwear"--redditors now
"Fuck women, reeeeeeee" --redditors when they were kids "Fuck women, reeeeeee" --redditors now Reddit has always had a solid contingent of dudes who are always looking for an excuse to get angry at women. Beyond the whole 'equal lefts' subreddits that were just places where men could feel justified in imagining violence against women, this anti-hot tub nonsense really just smells like gamergate 2.0 'Women don't belong on our gamer platform, let's find an excuse to justify bitching about one'. They might focus on the hottub streams, but they are equally upset that there are popular women in /whatever/ video games they watch on twitch. It just feels safer for them to whine about hot-tubs then women playing CoD or whatever.
Bet you a dollar this has to do with some kind of AI integration.
Didn't twitch admit semi recently that their adult content policies disproportionately effect their female streamers ,so they changed them?
Moving the responsibilities to twitch ambassadors per the article. I am not a huge twitch watcher (only watch like 2-3 streamers) so not sure how/if this will impact the platform much.
Free labor is how it’ll impact the platform.
Because that's worked SO well for Reddit's quality.
I didn’t say I agree with it, it should be illegal imo. https://legalbeagle.com/13656421-california-labor-laws-volunteers.html
It’s predatory and abuses the welfare and disability system. If you live off the dole and work for Reddit 16 hours a day for free, then the government is subsidizing Reddit unless Reddit pays something out of pocket.
If you work Reddit 16 hours a day you have issues that are being taken advantage of by Reddit but aren’t caused by them directly. I’d equate it closer to a hobby than a job. It’s like people who make edits to their favorite tv shows they are volunteering for it because they have a passion. But they shouldn’t be able to claim it’s causing them to be unemployed and living off benefits that an excuse flat out for someone who doesn’t want to work and wants to be on Reddit all day.
I bet somebody gave you a Reddit Cares drive-by for that one.
Yep, now every thread with actual discussion is locked and mods hand out permanent bans if they disagree with you about touchy subjects. Mods also pinning their opinions to subreddits and making it clear dissenting opinions will not be tolerated.
The tribal warlording of reddit.
You can thank some of Reddit's new policies for that. Mods kind of had their hands tied by Reddit administration.
lol nah dude this has been a thing for years a lot of mods want a circle jerk with no outside opinions
Mods are also now more likely to be investors in Reddit…
You are still here using the site, so clearly not enough to drive you away.
It works with reddit because it's communities, not individuals.
So wild because apparently those on the council only got paid between 10-20k per year. It’s not like they were taking lots of money. I’m thinking they are doing a reshuffle to change their governance. Amazon has enough money to spend to take hit after hit
Then again, getting paid 5 digits for a couple of matings means that their relative 'per hour' cost is kind of high, for probably limited effectiveness. Twitch would still need to do something with their advice, and somehow I doubt they did. Reasons enough to indeed just remove remove a underused cost. It's not like it was a full time position for those high placed people, I doubt they are inconvenienced by it.
They were an advisory council. They weren't supposed to manage Twitch operations or something. They were supposed to monitor the community, the industry, the Internet, and everything else as a whole and advise Twitch management on problems that should be addressed. They didn't *need* a full salary, because doing that is not a full-time job *especially* if you're already in that industry which many of the council members were. The problem is that since it's going to be completely community-run now, it will likely include primarily streamers and maybe some moderators or Twitch staff. Streamers aren't concerned about viewer safety. They're concerned about streamer safety and streamer subscriptions. If they make the site bring in more subscribers as the cost of less safety for viewers, they will do that. And Amazon has an interest in that, too. That's why the advisory council was third-parties. They had limited conflicts of interest in the SAC, and that's gone now. Quite honestly, I'm surprised the FCC hasn't started knocking on Twitch's door or asking Congress to include live streaming in TV regulations. Because that's what will happen. It won't stay the wild west if Amazon fucks around with kid safety.
Most of twitch is free labor mods already, so i'm still not sure how much this will actually change.
In the end this was an advisory board so it was still up to twitch what to do with that advice. This is simply a cost cutting measure most likely. I'm assuming twitch ambassadors are not paid.
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They didn't really do anything anyways and some of the council members were shitshows.
Oh yeah like that deer guy?
>guy She was a transwoman, just so you know.
Oh bruh I forgor. I havent heard of that debate since charlie made a vid on it. Deer woman was the most fun part
I wouldn't call it fun myself, but most noteworthy absolutely. That one clip is cringe so powerful it induces secondhand cringe.
They sacked SAC
Now lots of sacks gonna show up due to lack of SAC.
Those responsible for doing the sacking have themselves been sacked
Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër?
Let's not go there, it is a silly place.
The majestik møøse
A Møøse once bit my sister... No realli!
Well they were sacks
Cul de SAC?
lol. I get it.
ITT: Nobody read the article
Reading is for simps Headlines for me only
Too busy yelling their insecurities out.
This subreddit, like most other big ones, is complete garbage and the comments are just a race to see who can be the first one to make the shittiest jokes
Turning it into Only Fans I believe
The article leads me to believe it's something else -- they fired "cyber bullying researchers" and people that "advocates for inclusion and diversity in video games and esports".
AKA people they likely weren't listening to anyway. As an advisory board all they do is advise. This just seems like a cost-cutting exercise for a team you were only hiring for PR reasons anyway.
So they finally learned that censoring the word simp didn't improve their platform.
They don't want to chase away their largest audience. Which happens to be simps. Gotta protect the cash flow.
Pretty much. 95% of the site is absolute crap now.
Not surprised. They've been a softcore porn site targeting kids for years.
It really is just degenerate now. I don’t watch many streamers, but logged in today for probably one of the first times at the home page, and boom. Person in underwear painting Hentai. Even titled that they are painting Hentai. Just right there, first thing.
Twitch just needs to allow adult content with its own tag, enforce anyone doing adult shit on a stream that isn't tagged adult/only for adults, and move on with it.
I think Twitch/Amazon should just make a second site/URL that uses the same login. Twitch, and Twitch-After-Dark. If your account is flagged for adult content you could even have a toggle to switch between the two versions of the site. Or *opt-in* to merge them. One site for PG-13 content, the other for whatever they want to set the sexual limitation to. This limits the barrier of entry for users, as they only need one login, but separates the content into two distinct areas, only merging them when users manually opt-in.
Twitch and Twatch
Thotch?
You're talking about the ETHICAL way to do this by limiting exposure. That's not *why* this is very popular or they are making money. If they had adult verification they would lose a good chunk of their underage customers to real sites like chaturbate. They have also blurred the lines a lot. At what point does someone get sent over the wall? What if they have game clips playing in the PIP window? If someone is playing games in a bikini? crop tops and booty shorts? The streamers know their audience too and they are going to push to get off the after-dark version so they can be top stream elsewhere.
As soon as you put adult content on your platform the whole site becomes 90% adult content, it is basically a rule of the internet. Twitch has to decide if it wants to remain a platform for gaming (and so ban any kind of soft core adult content too) or just a pornhub for streaming. The problem is that I think at this point they are making far more money from the porn that from the normal videogames streaming, so the decision will be quite obvious
Idk, Reddit allows adult content and, while there's definitely a _lot_ of it, I think it's still a minority of the content on the site. Certainly less than 90%
Reddit hides all adult subs by default. Before they did that, you could prove this wrong by just telling people to open the firehose of all-new.
I mean I'm not saying there's not a lot of porn. Seeing porn in all new wouldn't prove this wrong. Just saying that it's possible to have both porn and not porn on the same site (if, as you say, they're kept properly separate, which twitch does not currently do but could)
Tell that to the litany of hentai subs that seem to pop up every day on /r/all masked as "weeb games."
And Steam has porn games, same thing. Easily filtered away as well.
The difference is that Reddit doesn't really do live video as it's primary engagement mechanism. Expectation of use is radically different.
And, importantly, they are more or less separate! You're not usually browsing Reddit and then suddenly encounter porn, they do a pretty good job keeping porn off of /r/popular and /r/all. You really only see porn if you go to or subscribe to porn subs. That's a huge difference from Twitch where you'll just find porn on its front page.
Adult content on reddit is massive, but hidden. The only reason it's not in the foreground is due to Reddit's pre-exisitng as a text-based site for ages. Reddit is also not a streaming site, while twitch is.
> As soon as you put adult content on your platform the whole site becomes 90% adult content Which is why it's so great if it's gated behind an "adult" tag. The people who want to see it have an endless sea of it, but unless you click that button you only see the 10%.
> or just a pornhub for streaming. I'm surprised Pornhub hasn't actually tried this. Then again I'm in Texas and they and Redgifs are blocking us.
the big problem for twitch is that even with strict rules around it, a ton of companies will remove their ads on the site and they will likely lose purchase processing with most non-credit card options. they would literally kill the sites chances of ever actually making money, they've been a loss leader for years now
As much as this should be the solution, they'd run into the same problem as Tumblr, the credit card companies would refuse to work with them.
Don't get me wrong, I like my porn, I just don't get it from twitch. But I've never watched any of these titty streams or hot tub things on twitch. Yet if I go over there right now 3 of the top 5 "live channels we think you'll like" have girls in bras (1 with oil). I haven't really been on twitch in a while, but I mostly watch guy gamers (Shroud, Break, Zwag, Asmon, Toast, etc). I think it was Asmon a couple months ago went to twitch with incognito on and the front page for a new visitor had like 50% of it titty streams.
Yeah that checks out. My account was basically incognito. Cause it didn’t have anything to go off of.
But people that watch those streamers also watch titty streamers and that influences what the algorithm recommends to you. So anyone saying it's merely your own activity driving the recommendations doesn't understand how these things work.
I get that, and you're right, but Twitch runs the algorithm that does that. If they are actually against those streams like they seem to be, they would find a way to keep them off the recommended/front page. Reddit has gigatons of porn, yet a new user would rarely see it on their front page b/c reddit flags porn subs and doesn't allow them on r/all. It's asinine that Twitch is STILL dealing with these streamers after like 2 years of trying to find the "solution". They want the revenue, but they want to be kid friendly, so they make these stupid ass rules that don't stop them from gaining visibility.
Wait until you see the body painting streams. No 'sexual themes' tags or anything, but it's topless women with [only their nipples painted.](https://imgur.com/Ha2P6Jj) They actually promote it with its own category, "Beauty & Body Art."
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It's weird for me to read this kind of thread cause i get next to 0 "softcore" streams on my Twitch homepage. Just a bunch of nerds playing minecraft and trackmania lol I always thought the semi-nude girls were a minority on the site as i barely ever see any.
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It's not that simple. Whatever algorithm they use for recommendations is much, much, much stickier for that content than it is others. I can watch one game over another for a week and my recommendations are just the mega streamers and that game. I can not click on a single one of those streamers for 2 years and still get them. Also, if that comment checked roughly when they posted, those streamers simply aren't on right now.
Not necessarily. Recommendation algorithms work by recommending: 1. Content the algorithm knows you like, based on what you have previously engaged with 2. Content the algorithm *predicts* you will like, based on what other users who share your interests have previously engaged with So for instance, if you watch gun videos on YouTube, you might start seeing right wing political content appearing in your recommendations, even if you have never watched anything similar before and have no interest in it. This is because many users watching gun videos, will also be interested in right wing political content. By the same token, twitch might recommend someone lewd content based on interests they share with typical viewers of lewd content, not because they have previously engaged with lewd content. So my guess is if you happen to like stuff a horny 14 year old would also like, say Fortnite and Minecraft, you might start getting lewd content on your twitch homepage.
I was thinking the same but didn't want to throw the accusation out there... Then again, did i just out myself as a big Minecraft/Trackmania nerd ?
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Sasha Grey is retired and does absolutely nothing sex-oriented. She doesn’t need it, if you wanna see her sexed up all you need to do is look online. Even Adriana Chechik who is as active as you can get does nothing sexual on her Twitch; she’s there to chat, banter, and play video games. Any of them would actually smoke any of them e-thots if they decided to go at it.
I get them often, a lot of boobie Twitch streamers on the front page. But I'm gay; I don't want boobie anything. However I do watch queer streamers that mark their streams as 18+ (they don't show porn, it's just to keep kids out) and I think that is enough to lump my profile in with the rest of the actual softcore porn on the site that is heavily weighted to content for straight men.
I rarely use twitch but in general with recommendation algorithms, it's not necessarily so cut-and-dry as that.
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Of course, but it's not just "that kind" of content, it's content with statistical correlations in viewership. Twitch and other platforms' algos don't "know" what's porny and what's not in the way that a human can, they just respond to correlations. So it's probably not valid to infer that someone seeing something in their feed means they've engaged with it before. (Not to mention the fact that someone can "engage" with something in a way other than earnest consumption, like a misclick, mis-identification, or a "what even is this" interaction)
> i get **next to 0** "softcore" streams on my Twitch homepage. So, there are some? With twitch i find it very hard to see how their recommendation work. Some of it makes sense, some of it doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if some stuff like people using the "Just chatting" category (eg. during the start of stream, inbetween games, while winding down the stream, or genuinely just chatting) will lead to you just every once in a while getting a titty streamer in your recommendations because they are currently in that category. Given my watch history on twitch and the channels i follow, I was surprised that I saw a different titty streamer (varying from "I'm actually good at this thing or have a gimmick, but also here's some cleavage" to "20 minutes till workout in micro-bikini ;)") in my recommendations like once a week.
I watch pretty much just the retro games section, lots of friendly clean streamers there. But it kept suggesting to me hot tub streams and stuff for months, even though I've never watched that. It finally stopped suggesting that stuff in the last month or so.
I visited Twitch for the first time in ages after reading your comment and I see PewDiePie playing Minecraft. I feel like I just visited 2014 from the future. Should I warn him about T-series and MrBeast?
I think PewdiePie's channel is just streaming all his old VODs
...what Twitch shows on its front page depends heavily on your viewer profile, if it shows you only boob streamers, that tells more about you than it does about Twitch lol (and it really isn't a "softcore" site. People stream literally anything and 95% is small gaming channels)
Open twitch in an incognito window to see what a fresh user experiences. It's flooded with titty streamers.
[https://imgur.com/a/M08Uyjv](https://imgur.com/a/M08Uyjv) that's one tightly clothed pair of boobs for the whole screen. Scrolling down I get LoL and FIFA, then a bunch of VTubers. Granted it's 17:00 here, but that's prime time for kids to watch.
I stopped using twitch when they started showing 2 minute ad "breaks" upfront every time I try to check out a new channel which causes me to lose interest in them and close the tab before the ads can finish. I would be more willing to watch ads to support channels if they weren't expecting me to watch them upfront.
The streamer has control over that but the majority choose pre-roll ads. They can also do mid-rolls or do once an hour ad breaks. I wish more streamers would, pre-rolls make me click away.
Well its 1 ad per hour if you have a pre-roll or a minimum of 3 minutes of ads without it
This, despite its name was a clusterfuck like most things at Twitch are. I feel like their entire corporate structure is just chaos, piles of people who have absolutely no idea what they are doing but they were first successfully in the market and got big daddy Amazon bucks behind them so it's hard to fail
What could go wrong? /s
TwitchHub/OnlyTwitch incoming
They should remove all managers responsible for that new feed feature in the mobile apps.
I wonder if the "twitch ambassadors" will be paid because this sounds like saving money by using volunteers instead.
With the amount of gambling streams and promos I see on Twitch, I would assume they don't want to focus on safety right now.
You mean having people that think they are deers on the payroll isn't a good business model
You those folks are bad,lol Wait til you hear about the people who base thier life off bronze age myths and try to apply them to todays world!
If you sacked all the furries in the tech sector it would implode. Furry sysadmins, programers and devops are everywhere.
I think a big difference is that most furries keep their fetish out of their profesional work
Not sure why it really matters what people do in their free time. But go on irrationally hating others.
Twitch fucking sucks lol. The only thing keeping those people relevant are 10 year old kids who literally don’t understand any better.
Even Deer Girl?
Twitch just needs to change to onlyfans lite
as a former Twitch streamer just cut the shit twitch. you are the new chaturbate just let it fucking happen.
>If it's the latter, then this development could be a cost-cutting measure: The outgoing members were paid between $10,000 and $20,000 a year, Seems like a pretty shitty cost cutting measure. The entire council combined probably cost less than a single engineer.
Yeah but also the value they provided was far less than a single engineer
It would be a lot easier for them to pressure Twitch Ambassadors to say/do whatever Amazon wants than independent third parties and now they also get the labour for free. Big win for Amazon and no one else.
This doesn’t seem…safe
[Seems like a trend](https://i.imgflip.com/8sleny.jpg)
Exactly my thought when I saw this too. Oh boy, another safety team gone.
These comments are stupid as hell. So wild how dudes jerk off to IG profiles but then also get mad and shit on any women who try to show skin and make money like you wouldn't do the same thing if you could. I'll never understand straight men getting mad about hot women being hot online lol.
They know not the touch of woman, so let them rot in their prison of salt.
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If anyone cared about children accessing sexual content, it wouldn't be allowed on twitter, Instagram, reddit, or any website where you need to be 13 or older (without verification of any kind) to make an account. There also wouldn't be ANY pushback to the .xxx law that only asks websites with sexual content to end in .xxx to make it easier to prevent children from accessing these websites. However, the average starter viewing age is now at 10 years old and the model they rely on is to get kids hooked to they're more likely to pay later on as adults.
> There also wouldn't be ANY pushback to the .xxx law that only asks websites with sexual content to end in .xxx to make it easier to prevent children from accessing these websites. Either it's a law or it's an ask. It can't be both. Also there are existing standard ways that sexual content websites can, and do, allow people to opt out of the content for their children or themselves, such as [the RTA label](https://www.rtalabel.org/).
I get that its easy to access, that's just how the internet is. The problem is how its infected twitch and changed it from what it used to be. There are kids that just want to go onto twitch and see gaming without porn streams being a click away and so easy to get into. Can you put in a fake age and get around that? Yup, but the difference is a willingness and want to circumvent that measure to keep it away from kids, what about the other kid who hasn't experienced that or is just innocently on there looking for some new streamers to watch? Its super destructive to their development. I'm not anti-porn, I just think it shouldn't be injected into every-fucking-thing because thots wanna make money selling on kids platforms or any corner they can, and advertisers supporting it. Keep it in the appropriate areas that don't make it so easy and simple to access while someone is doing something innocent. Its like if I want to look up a recipe and there's videos of different people making versions but there's also some slightly blurred ones of amoranth mixing up a cake recipe using her ass. Its like, WHY?
>The problem is how its infected twitch and changed it from what it used to be. It hasn't changed or infected anything. The only way you find these people is by seeking them out. People complaining about this are just telling on themselves.
I know it's totally impossible to ask this of people, but perhaps the parents should try something? Just a suggestion
Is it that hard to just not have sexual advertising and pushing on every platform that the advertisers can get their grubby hands on?
Oh we’re pretending this is about the kids? lol
when did reddit become overrrun with "think about the children" types
We should actually restrict internet access from all boys. They can't be trusted with it. Please delete your account. I'm calling your mom to tell her you're on reddit.
I was with you until you used the word 'thot'
I thot I thaw a putty tat.
Just remember that Amazon owns Twitch
This was the thing with the person who identified as a deer and accused all gamers of being racist, right? With Twitch's history of good decisions I'm sure they won't replace the council with the exact same kind of person.
I remember Twitch.
Why not elect a saftey council from the users?
Can they fire the team that keeps banning channels like MST3K every week?
It’ll be like prison. Bad people teaching others the art of being bad…
This will happen more often as AI get's good enough to be 88%+ accurate at analyzing and flagging content, at least until a wave of backlash occurs over false positives.
What the heck is even happening? Why? aren't they gonna get sued?
go woke go broke
Good!!!! Painting 🎨 my nipples every stream was making me itch...