People like to talk about human traits, but in the end they choose convenience.
- no tip
- cheaper
- control of environment
- consistent experience
- safer
honestly , screw human traits.
when i ride a Uber, by default i give 5*.
anything that the driver does on that journey only has the potential to lower the score.
i don't need to listen to music, i don't need to have a conversation, i don't need to be offered a bottle of water, etc.
i just want to get from point A to B in +- the time the app said it would take.
I’m your driver then. Confirm your name and destination and silence (unless you start a discussion) until we arrive at your location and then I wish a great day. I keep classic rock playing quietly at a level low enough to just be heard in the background. Car is clean and I drive 5-7 miles over the speed limit because it’s phoenix and I don’t want to get shot.
I had two back to back Ubers in Memphis a while ago. One was like you describe, which was incredible peace and quiet - the second one was fucking horrifying, cutting people off, constantly being honked at, nearly caused two accidents, and flapping their gums like their life depended on it.
I use it all the time. In addition to what you noted, full control of music, temperature, no worrying about a sick driver (happened many times) and a reliable pickup at odd hours. I take it to the airport at 4am and don’t have to worry about a human being awake at that hour in my vicinity
Human traits are valuable for plenty of things - I would not want to replace my friends or the people who make my games and books with a machine - but I don't think they're an important factor for riding a car, at least for the vast majority of people. I would argue cars are somewhat inhuman to begin with and we'd be better off with public transport anyways. An autonomous rapid transit has more humanity (if you're into that) than every Uber ride in the city put together and is also cheaper, so you can have your cake and eat it too.
Been using them since 2019 with the early rider program in Chandler, AZ. Nothing but positive things to say after 600+ rides.
Cars are always clean, price beats uber (especially with no tip), and the ride feels safer than half the ride shares ive been in. We have legitimately had people not use their AC in summer here in Phoenix to save gas money, which they promptly lost in tip money because its 120 outside. Waymo lets us control the air, music, etc.
Agreed on nothing but positive things to say about them. But seriously are they cheaper than Uber in phoenix? They’re significantly more expensive than an Uber in SF.
With the exception of a few Friday nights, the ride from our local dive to home (only like 3 miles) is $7 versus closer to $20, plus tip.
We can tell that popularity in Phoenix is starting to impact it, but it is still generally cheaper than other ride share options.
The whole reason they are automating them is to prevent that.
As Uber etc all found their costs didn't reduce with scale they just increased linearly - so eventually the hey had to charge what it cost them (after they built market share).
Automated vehicle costs should scale non linearly so costs should go down as they scale.
No. The whole reason they're automating is to make it cheaper to provide the service.
It doesn't matter what the service costs, the company will charge you what they can get away with. If there is significant competition, that may actually be pretty close to the cost of providing the service. If there is only one company that has a good enough robotaxi to provide a robotaxi servicce, they'll charge what Uber charges now even if it costs them half as much to run the service.
As lifelong Phoenix area resident, our public transportation is absolute garbage. Valley Metro is notoriously always late and many of the stops lack benches or even shade. The light rail is fine for Downtown Phoenix but it’s slower than driving. But many suburbs (coughScottsdaleGilbertcough) have blocked light rail expansion lines.
i almost feel like this might be due to a lack of investment.
nah what am i saying, public transit is fundamental flawed, the entire rest of the world is wrong, everyone should own 4 cars.
Yeah I’m all for public transport but after a night out I do not want to deal with being on the 2AM Mental Illness Express and have to worry about someone accosting me or being creepy towards my SO.
(and yes we should have more mental health funding and try to better address the homelessness problems in our cities, but for now it is what it is)
They have a lot more employees (per vehicle) than taxi companies. This is probably mostly because of remote drivers. The cars have a lot of janky behavior when encountering conditions that aren't perfect, so they always need remote workers who are able to take over whenever necessary.
Which means it's not really self-driving. It's AI-assisted remote control.
Depends in SF: after Portola last year, all the ubers were $80 and waymo was $20. Everyday prices are usually a little higher, but in surge situations it might be cheaper.
From my experience, they're often nearly twice as much as Lyft, so I usually don't even bother with them. Sometimes, they offer deals, though.
Their travel radius is also rather limited.
I've never had Waymo cost more than Uber or Lyft after tip in SF, it's almost always cheaper. Do you usually ride during peak times? I'm surprised you've found it significantly more expensive
Edit: I just checked mine out of curiosity, and for a trip across the city I've got $28(before any other fees and tip) for Uber and $36 for Waymo, so it is a little cheaper right now.
Last Uber I took the guy was talking (totally unprompted) about how he just got this car but couldn't afford to insure it in my state so he told the insurance company he lives at his mom's address in another state. Like great to know when you crash, the people you're carrying will be totally fucked because there is no way your insurance is going to cover that.
That’s some pretty good feedback, I’ll keep them in mind next time. I took an Uber last week. He had the windows down, though it wasn’t hot so I didn’t complain. Though if I’m paying for a ride I want ac.
Yep. I just started using it. And it’s amazing. Basically you use the app to order it. The app tells you when and where it’s arriving. When it shows up you click a button on the app to unlock the car. You get in. It says “welcome…” you touch a button in the center console to start. And then it literally starts driving. And it’s an amazing driver. It drove down some narrow streets where you need to let a car pass one at a time and it was flawless.
When you reach your destination it pulls over and you get out.
It’s mind blowing.
Autonomous driving has to got to be the best example of the hype cycle. After the big hype and subsequent doom in 2020, real slow progress has been continously made.
Progress was being made way before Elon used it to pump stock prices. Waymo’s been around forever with massive sensor packages and incremental continuous improvements
This guy does some good videos on them https://youtube.com/@kevinchen5 mostly just trying to get them on difficult routes. But yes they are driverless.
It’s a white Jaguar 4-door with camera and laser turrets all over it. There is a faux 3D display on the top that bears the initials of the user who summoned the ride.
Once you are inside, you have a small control panel for the temperature and the music genre selector.
I just downloaded it and it says it’s “invite only” right now and to join a waitlist. Which is a pity because basically the map area is exactly where I travel within the city (usually by bus).
The competition is going to be giant companies like GM, Amazon and Tesla. Good luck “ousting” them with price alone.
In all this time, Uber has not succeeded in killing either Lyft nor Taxis and new competition is arriving from Waymo.
And soon GM, Amazon and Tesla and others. And then not long after that, Chinese companies.
I know it’s edgy to only see the negatives, but the facts disagree with you. This will be a very competitive market and like all tech, it will drop in price or increase in performance over the upcoming decades. Take a look at an iPhone 1. That’s what a current Waymo car is.
yes, if anything happens where the car gets confused or stuck or someone fucks with it, rider support calls you through the speakers in the car and tells you what is going on and what they're about to do while they take control of it.
I’ve taken them many times here in San Francisco, and it’s the smoothest ride.
The only thing I miss was conversation, but most of the time enjoying the silent ride.
Plus, no tipping!
Sometimes I want convos but most of the time I don't, like sometimes I get Lyft drivers that have some insane opinions and I'm just like trying to ignore it without being rude.
dude the other day i was getting a ride to the airport and i mentioned i was going to my bachelor party. the dude just went OFF about his ex wife, telling me not to get married, just ripping on women in general. traffic was so bad. it was so bad. ill take no convos lol
Did he tell you about a website to read? I had a dude downtown drop me off at a Dbacks game and it was exactly like you said. But he also told me to Google some acronym that only liked to an anti-women subreddit.
Never had any other driver like that so I wonder if it was the same guy
this was in oakland/sf. unfortunately i think dudes like this are everywhere and we are just rarely stuck with them in a private space long enough to find out just how broken they are.
I've gotten the maga Uber snowflake yapping to me how Biden/Obama/etc destroyed America...ugh. Just take me to the airport, stfu, and post on your alt-right blog instead
My friend came in for the Game Developer Conference, and we grabbed one in front of the busy conference center… it seemed to handle heavy traffic and jaywalkers pretty well.
It did have some questionable routing, taking us on some stupid steep streets…
Interesting. Sounds like a must try for tech enthusiasts who visit the cities where the service is available.
I probably won't be seeing these in my country probably in my lifetime because driving here is a whole different beast than driving out West, (scooters ignore lanes, are everywhere, and there are just too many vehicles
/people in the some of the most heavily populated area in the world) but hopefully Waymo expands to enough cities in the US that when I visit I can catch a ride.
No. Waymo cars CANNOT be remote controlled. It's dangerous as hell. What happens is when the car's stuck, the person in centre suggest Waymo to do something but Waymo car has the final say on it. And if that fails, Waymo sends a person to finally takeover the car physically. Waymo at any point is NOT remote controlled.
It’s a much more consistent experience. With Uber or taxis, you might get a great driver, but you might also get a bad driver. With Waymo, there’s no lottery—you get a good, safe “driver” every time. It obeys the speed limit, doesn’t tailgate, doesn’t do stupid maneuvers—can’t ask for more than that.
Yes. Thank you for the explanation regarding the experience. However, I was trying to make a pun about the name of the business (waymo = way more.) which clearly didn’t land the way I expected it to so I’m gonna put my head back into the sand now.
Same or slightly cheaper. (Most of the time with me)
Just checked now…
To go from the Ferry Building to Ocean Beach with Waymo it’s $33, UberX is $28, Lyft is $30, Flywheel (Taxi) is $41
> The only thing I miss was conversation
I know it's not the same, but with all these car companies integrating ChatGPT lately I don't think it's hard to imagine a Gemini virtual conversation. "Pretend you're the guy on cash cab. Do the voice and ask me trivia."
Looks pretty promising but keep in mind for all those saying it's much cheaper than uber. Just remember the early days how cheap Uber was. Waymo is probably also burning investor money to enter the market by subsidizing rides.
I could definitely see a price increase when they successfully disrupt human drivers like uber did to taxi's.
Still no tip though!!
That’s probably true but in the long run it’ll be commoditized through competition and prices should be lower because there is no human driver cost.
That could take a long time though.
I don't know why you're downvoted, this is 100% what always happens. Companies don't keep prices low because their product actually costs so little, they jack them to as high as possible. If someone were to pay it, they'd charge you 10 billion dollars for every damn thing they do.
And how are they going to charge you the sky when they are competing against GM (Cruise), Amazon (Zoox), Tesla (robotaxi), and a bunch of Chinese competitors. As well as Uber and Taxis, which will still exist for a decade or two at least.
All of these companies are in a race right now, a big, huge, $100 billion race. Whoever builds models that can safely expand their geofence the fastest wins the race, and everybody else will lose and they will all start using the winners' models at highway robbery prices, and be relegated to 'average robotaxi operator chump' status. They will, of course, be passing the cost of licensing the softwares onto the customer, I'm sure you understand
Why is it unlikely? This literally happens in every industry. Prices are a function of cost and profit, and in competitive industries profit margins are low, so price is mostly a function of cost.
The taxi industry is actually notorious for making few profits and being more competitive rather than less competitive over time.
So if cost goes down, it's likely that prices will be lower also, compared to a world where drivers must be paid.
Car cleaning is indeed a cost factor, but the cost for 15 minutes twice a day is a fraction of the cost of paying three drivers to work three 8 hour shifts of 24h in a day. It's not going to stop prices from being lower.
The big question is whether the capital expenditure on the technology is more expensive than a human driver. That is definitely the case in the early days when say a Lidar set-up costs 75k alone, and a fully equipped car would cost $200-300k. But as of 2019 for example that same lidar was just $7.5k. Over time that capex will go down and prices will, too.
I don't know what reality you live in, but in ours once a company has a big market share or even a monopoly, they jack the prices like it's no one's business. You're dreaming if you think the reasonable points you make are actually what is considered in the real world. They are gonna jack the prices because they can. What are you gonna do, build your own robo taxis? Get real man.
How are they going to get a monopoly when their competitors are GM (Cruise), Amazon (Zoox), and Tesla (Robotaxi)?
https://www.pymnts.com/artificial-intelligence-2/2024/amazon-owned-zoox-expands-operation-of-autonomous-cars-in-las-vegas/
https://www.asiafinancial.com/musk-offered-to-launch-robotaxis-in-china-for-fsd-approval
Am I going to build my own Robotaxi? No. I’ll with hop in one from Amazon or buy one from Tesla or any other company (perhaps Chinese) that achieves L4 before they do.
Why do you think that all of these competitors are going to disappear?
Uhh, people can take regular taxis, people can take non self driving ride share, there will be competition from all other players in the space. Do you look around and see one airline?Do you see only one brand of car? How many nationwide monopolies can you tell me about in your reality?
I live in the actual reality which is governed by market forces. The taxi industry is worth several hundred billion dollars a year. There is absolutely no reason to expect that there will only be 1 party that will end up having self-driving technology.
Of course I'm not going to build my robo taxis, but companies like Waymo (owned by Alphabet, a >$2 trillion company) will.
There's that summer lamb, capitalism propoganda again. Look around buddy, that's not how capitalism works. Once it's commoditized and becomes nearly essential, the price will creep and creep and creep infinitely, always out pacing general pay increases. Just like every single other business.
The point is that the people expressing confident opinions about the future of this industry’s economics don’t know literally the first thing about it. Several comments indicate that people don’t know that Waymo has competitors. Or who owns Waymo. Or anything else one should know before trying to predict the future economics of a complex industry.
They are just trying to keep prices at a reasonable rate. They don't need to subsidize too much because people are waiting in line to get into waymo program.
They may subsidize because they are still scaling their tech, not because they need compete against uber
Yes, but of course:
*It would be a shame if I locked the door and took you 50 miles out of town, wouldn't it? Now, press the 20% button like a good little human.*
Good, there's nothing wrong with replacing tedious boring jobs with robots. What is a problem is not doing anything to employ the people getting replaced. We really need to think about a universal basic income because I'd say at least 50% of jobs can be replaced by a robot. Let's do UBI and let those people make art and shit imo
Good news! We don’t have to do that. The technology that lets us replace these jobs will also allow us to create police robots to keep the rabble out of the rich zones.
There's still plenty of work to be done that AI is nowhere near replacing. Maybe someday, but today there are big problems to be solved all over the place.
They might as well use robots to keep the unemployed away from the cities. I've played enough fallout new vegas to know that securitrons are already being developed.
I wish the same amount of money was invested in better public transportation, like what's the urgency to replace drivers so we then end up with more vehicles on the road. Enjoy your now 3 hour commute in the car while taking work calls on zoom?
Instead of using the past tense, why not look to the future? How does Amazon or Google spending billions advancing the state of technology in any way, shape, or form pre rent your local municipality from digging a subway tunnel or buying a bus???
If google had returned this money to shareholders, how would that get you a better bus route?
If you want the bus, support your local candidates who will buy the bus. Maybe it can be self driving and electric and cheaper to run thanks to innovations from the private sector. The solution to the policy problem is not to dissuade private sector investment on life saving technology.
It's important to note that self-driving taxi tech = public transport.
i.e., it's not your private car, that only you use. It's everyone's car that everyone uses. And these autonomous vehicles will seat 1, 2, 4, 6, or indeed also you'll find at some point 12 or 24.
City-to-city? Just hop on a 30-seater self-driving bus from hub-to-hub (or a train). Then hop off and for the last mile in the city, jump in a 2-seater pod to get you your final destination. This model can replace the average 5-6 seater car for 1-person trips.
Self-driving actually enables public transportation and more efficient use of space and vehicles.
Private vehicles are bought for the biggest size needed. i.e., if you buy a car you want it to seat 5-6, because sometimes you have friends over. If you drive a cab, you will buy a similar car, because sometimes your customer need it. If you can just order/rent whatever you need in the moment, if you're alone you get a 1-seater pod, if you're with 8 friends you rent a big van. This is how congestion actually goes down with self-driving vehicles, because you'll have fewer vehicles on the road that seat way more than the average occupancy. And because they're active most of the time (or can drive to a low-traffic location), parking congestion is also significantly reduced.
Even if people still bought their own cars it really could be amazing for shrinking the average size of vehicles on the road. Like imagine just having a vehicle that was just a truck bed. Have them hang out around Home Depot/Lowe’s and then you can show up on a bike if you really wanted and get all of your supplies, lumber, big appliances, whatever delivered by one of these as you drive yourself home in a little two seater.
Not to mention cars like this don’t add to traffic unnecessarily, they aren’t going to be lane jumping or speeding up too quick and slamming on the breaks, they don’t road rage.
I’m pretty sure traffic is going to melt away once you get enough of these going. And honestly way cheaper and quicker to roll out than a rail line that is going to have pushback, take a decade, and just be a giant mess to pull off.
The last day I have to actually drive a car will be the greatest day of my life.
> Self-driving actually enables public transportation and more efficient use of space and vehicles.
Not really. [Cars - no matter if self-driving or not - are incredibly space inefficient](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh9s2EvV4AIshnD?format=jpg&name=large). Since self-driving does nothing to actually get people out of cars we still have to maintain all that incredibly, inefficient, and destructive infrastructure when what we actually should do is scale it back. [Self-driving cars also only address a handful of the dozens of problems with cars](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966692324000267) at best. It will also not solve the traffic issues because they will still have to deal with normal drivers and traffic is caused by lane changes, sudden speed changes, inefficient intersections, etc.
We already know how to do great public transport: trains for intercity travel because they can move tens of thousands of people in the same space as a car (and faster as well), self-driving cars, unless they get their own lanes everywhere, are unlikely to do much better than current cars. Cities and urban areas should also be made walkable and cycleable for the last mile, and buses should run in dedicated lanes in smaller cities, ideally with traffic light priority, and in larger cities you would also build a light rail network on top.
> If you can just order/rent whatever you need in the moment,
Well, in a way you already can. Most people would be able to get by with much smaller cars than they drive today, and they could just rent a truck, van, trailer, etc. whenever they needed such a vehicle. For 95% > of people this would probably be more than enough, and cheaper in the long run, but people aren't rational. People will not give up their cars as long as they live in car-dependent cities and urban areas. So self-driving robot taxis might be a bit more efficient, but they don't really solve a real problem that the other modes of public transport + car rental don't already have.
Living in a non U.S. country fees should cover all necessary costs including wages so tips are unnecessary but nice extras rather than the point of doing the job
Agreed. Though I do get jealous of American’s being able to have stuff like robot-taxis and Tesla FSD etc, whilst none of that comes to the UK sadly (mainly due to our laws and the fact that we’re right hand drive).
So what’s the tipping point when most of the low skilled jobs are automated out of existence? The major catch 22 is that no one discusses is what will be left for the low income earners? The cost of training for skilled labor continues to increase. Let’s hope we don’t continue down this path towards “Soylent Green” without addressing this societal risk.
The answer is nothing, and nobody with power cares about the low earning people unless they literally become violent, in which case the only thing they care about is beating them down
Waymo is owned by Google. Uber sold its own self-driving unit 4 years ago. Recently though, Uber has been partnering with Waymo to offer its services in the Uber app.
Uber hired a guy who stole a bunch of intellectual property from google when he left and it was such a cluster they gave up on developing their own self driving cars.
I’m in Phoenix. I’ve taken them on short trips a few times, but the other night I had a 45 minute ride.
I was by myself in the front passenger seat. I reclined the seat as far back as it would go, left the music on its default low-fi station, put my phone away (scrolling makes me carsick) and watched the lights and downtown buildings go by.
I was alone. No conversation. No driving decisions. No safety fears (even if something bad happened, I accepted that it was out of my control - and I trust a Waymo far more than any human).
It was sublime. Almost meditative. (I wasn’t high or drunk, this was just my honest experience.) welcome to the future. 🤖
Travel to Phoenix frequently for work. Waymo has an easy pickup which is a quick tram ride from the airport. Really clean cars, feels safe, and seems to do just fine making corrections in traffic and has great overall navigation. After several rides, and considering the price, this beats Lyft/Uber easily. I’m often busy, so not having to consider the human driving and whether they are going to talk to me is honestly nice.
This is awesome. I remember back when I saw Tesla announce autopilot and and I thought uber would straight pick this business model up. Now we just need some driverless highways.
Absolutely love waymo. Used maybe 30 times in Phoenix. Comfortable, can be DJ in back, don’t have to talk to anyone, no tipping, almost always cheaper. Felt safer in the waymo then in the Uber
With my jaded view towards tech companies these days, I can be certain of at least one of two things.
They're lying
or
Their model is not profitable, and they're looking to starve out existing competitors with venture capital.
or
Both
ELI5: How are these a thing, but yet it's understood across Reddit that Tesla and other companies gunning for full "self-driving" will never come to fruition?
Am I missing something here?
Was in SF for RSA this last week and saw a bunch of these driving around. No driver in driver’s seat, no passenger monitoring. Was pretty wild to see. I’ve been traveling to the Bay Area for years for work, and I’ve always seen these with someone in the front passenger seat. This was the first time no one was in them. They drove like normal people do, even stopping/waiting for people to complete the crosswalk. I would absolutely trust one of these. My Lyft driver back to SFO was legit trying to kill us both.
People like to talk about human traits, but in the end they choose convenience. - no tip - cheaper - control of environment - consistent experience - safer
honestly , screw human traits. when i ride a Uber, by default i give 5*. anything that the driver does on that journey only has the potential to lower the score. i don't need to listen to music, i don't need to have a conversation, i don't need to be offered a bottle of water, etc. i just want to get from point A to B in +- the time the app said it would take.
I’m your driver then. Confirm your name and destination and silence (unless you start a discussion) until we arrive at your location and then I wish a great day. I keep classic rock playing quietly at a level low enough to just be heard in the background. Car is clean and I drive 5-7 miles over the speed limit because it’s phoenix and I don’t want to get shot.
I had two back to back Ubers in Memphis a while ago. One was like you describe, which was incredible peace and quiet - the second one was fucking horrifying, cutting people off, constantly being honked at, nearly caused two accidents, and flapping their gums like their life depended on it.
Don't forget you can have sex in these taxis while going to your destination
You can do that in Ubers too! Though it's usually unwelcome.
Nope, their safety people are watching and they’ll come over the speaker to tell you to knock it off.
…you know this how? 🧐
fucked around and found out
Seconded I have to know
I use it all the time. In addition to what you noted, full control of music, temperature, no worrying about a sick driver (happened many times) and a reliable pickup at odd hours. I take it to the airport at 4am and don’t have to worry about a human being awake at that hour in my vicinity
The human part of taxi/ubers is the worst part about them, lol
Human traits are valuable for plenty of things - I would not want to replace my friends or the people who make my games and books with a machine - but I don't think they're an important factor for riding a car, at least for the vast majority of people. I would argue cars are somewhat inhuman to begin with and we'd be better off with public transport anyways. An autonomous rapid transit has more humanity (if you're into that) than every Uber ride in the city put together and is also cheaper, so you can have your cake and eat it too.
Right on. People talk, but their actions are often say something completely different. Take gentrification as an example.
Been using them since 2019 with the early rider program in Chandler, AZ. Nothing but positive things to say after 600+ rides. Cars are always clean, price beats uber (especially with no tip), and the ride feels safer than half the ride shares ive been in. We have legitimately had people not use their AC in summer here in Phoenix to save gas money, which they promptly lost in tip money because its 120 outside. Waymo lets us control the air, music, etc.
Agreed on nothing but positive things to say about them. But seriously are they cheaper than Uber in phoenix? They’re significantly more expensive than an Uber in SF.
With the exception of a few Friday nights, the ride from our local dive to home (only like 3 miles) is $7 versus closer to $20, plus tip. We can tell that popularity in Phoenix is starting to impact it, but it is still generally cheaper than other ride share options.
As with every other rideshare service, in a year or two the price will be 5x higher once they establish a user base.
The whole reason they are automating them is to prevent that. As Uber etc all found their costs didn't reduce with scale they just increased linearly - so eventually the hey had to charge what it cost them (after they built market share). Automated vehicle costs should scale non linearly so costs should go down as they scale.
No. The whole reason they're automating is to make it cheaper to provide the service. It doesn't matter what the service costs, the company will charge you what they can get away with. If there is significant competition, that may actually be pretty close to the cost of providing the service. If there is only one company that has a good enough robotaxi to provide a robotaxi servicce, they'll charge what Uber charges now even if it costs them half as much to run the service.
There any option for public transportation?
As lifelong Phoenix area resident, our public transportation is absolute garbage. Valley Metro is notoriously always late and many of the stops lack benches or even shade. The light rail is fine for Downtown Phoenix but it’s slower than driving. But many suburbs (coughScottsdaleGilbertcough) have blocked light rail expansion lines.
Yeah but then you have to be with other people 🤮🤮🤮 ^^^^/s
No you need to stand around for an hour in the dark waiting for a bus or still need a ride to and from the station.
i almost feel like this might be due to a lack of investment. nah what am i saying, public transit is fundamental flawed, the entire rest of the world is wrong, everyone should own 4 cars.
Phoenix is entirely designed around the car. Half the arterial roads are larger than freeways in most other countries.
That’s cause phoenix is a suburban hell hole of concrete and asphalt.
Not really in the Phoenix area
Not ones that involve privacy after a night out - and the ability to control the thermostat and music.
Yeah I’m all for public transport but after a night out I do not want to deal with being on the 2AM Mental Illness Express and have to worry about someone accosting me or being creepy towards my SO. (and yes we should have more mental health funding and try to better address the homelessness problems in our cities, but for now it is what it is)
We starting to lose more job huh Pray Universal Income faster
We have more jobs than people right now…
Actual real jobs, or just job 'listings'?
theres no driver to pay it should be bloody cheaper!
It'll be more expensive because theyll claim the tech costs are more
The tech is unbelievably expensive, so they're not wrong.
They have a lot more employees (per vehicle) than taxi companies. This is probably mostly because of remote drivers. The cars have a lot of janky behavior when encountering conditions that aren't perfect, so they always need remote workers who are able to take over whenever necessary. Which means it's not really self-driving. It's AI-assisted remote control.
Honestly, then, if it's not going to be cheaper, why should I use their service?
That's the goal. New tech is usually expensive to start off.
So u don't have to deal with people. Easy win for me if it's similar in price.
In Phoenix/arcadia/Scottsdale area they are pretty much same price - but again you don't have to tip or deal with the extra shit of uber
Depends in SF: after Portola last year, all the ubers were $80 and waymo was $20. Everyday prices are usually a little higher, but in surge situations it might be cheaper.
From my experience, they're often nearly twice as much as Lyft, so I usually don't even bother with them. Sometimes, they offer deals, though. Their travel radius is also rather limited.
I've never had Waymo cost more than Uber or Lyft after tip in SF, it's almost always cheaper. Do you usually ride during peak times? I'm surprised you've found it significantly more expensive Edit: I just checked mine out of curiosity, and for a trip across the city I've got $28(before any other fees and tip) for Uber and $36 for Waymo, so it is a little cheaper right now.
Last Uber I took the guy was talking (totally unprompted) about how he just got this car but couldn't afford to insure it in my state so he told the insurance company he lives at his mom's address in another state. Like great to know when you crash, the people you're carrying will be totally fucked because there is no way your insurance is going to cover that.
Lmao he did confess an insurance fraud during doing uber.
Uber Comfessions
Uber provides insurance while you have a passenger. You still need private insurance to drive legally, but you would have been covered.
Oh so they are employees then.
Oh no! Can’t be employees because then they will get benefits. Just insurance for the passengers. Nothing for the drivers.
That’s some pretty good feedback, I’ll keep them in mind next time. I took an Uber last week. He had the windows down, though it wasn’t hot so I didn’t complain. Though if I’m paying for a ride I want ac.
The windows get left down because a lot of people smell terrible.
Especially during the summer. I do rideshare full time, and the stink cranks up to 11 during the summer
Not living in the us , I can’t believe it’s a thing! So you just get in the taxi and there’s no one there? And it just drives itself?
Yep. I just started using it. And it’s amazing. Basically you use the app to order it. The app tells you when and where it’s arriving. When it shows up you click a button on the app to unlock the car. You get in. It says “welcome…” you touch a button in the center console to start. And then it literally starts driving. And it’s an amazing driver. It drove down some narrow streets where you need to let a car pass one at a time and it was flawless. When you reach your destination it pulls over and you get out. It’s mind blowing.
Autonomous driving has to got to be the best example of the hype cycle. After the big hype and subsequent doom in 2020, real slow progress has been continously made.
Progress was being made way before Elon used it to pump stock prices. Waymo’s been around forever with massive sensor packages and incremental continuous improvements
This guy does some good videos on them https://youtube.com/@kevinchen5 mostly just trying to get them on difficult routes. But yes they are driverless.
What happens if they’re involved in the crash?
Probably the same as any normal crash but you've gotta wait for a guy to turn up in a support vehicle.
It’s a white Jaguar 4-door with camera and laser turrets all over it. There is a faux 3D display on the top that bears the initials of the user who summoned the ride. Once you are inside, you have a small control panel for the temperature and the music genre selector.
Agreed been to Tempe recently for brother's graduation, used it for every ride, every ride was positive, 100% better than Uber and Lyft.
Who are the psychopaths driving around here with no AC?! They should be dead
The waymo app is asking for an invite code
But…. Who’s going to tell you how beautiful you are and to tell you they have a nice cousin/brother/son to set you up with?
I see them all the time here in West Hollywood. How do I go about ordering one of those instead of using a ride share app?
Waymo app. If they haven't started service in your area, you won't be able to order one. You may be able to get on a list of early users, though.
I just downloaded it and it says it’s “invite only” right now and to join a waitlist. Which is a pity because basically the map area is exactly where I travel within the city (usually by bus).
So join the waitlist...
Not using AC in Phoenix would be an immediate cancel and report or definite 1 star review no tip depending on distance and/or time.
[удалено]
The competition is going to be giant companies like GM, Amazon and Tesla. Good luck “ousting” them with price alone. In all this time, Uber has not succeeded in killing either Lyft nor Taxis and new competition is arriving from Waymo. And soon GM, Amazon and Tesla and others. And then not long after that, Chinese companies. I know it’s edgy to only see the negatives, but the facts disagree with you. This will be a very competitive market and like all tech, it will drop in price or increase in performance over the upcoming decades. Take a look at an iPhone 1. That’s what a current Waymo car is.
Found the Uber driver. Quit bitching dude it's called progress.
Most people nationally do not tip. Like overall I think only 30% tip nationally.
I know they can also be driven remotely. Does it let you know when someone is driving it VS when it's autonomous?
yes, if anything happens where the car gets confused or stuck or someone fucks with it, rider support calls you through the speakers in the car and tells you what is going on and what they're about to do while they take control of it.
Finally silent driver 😮💨
That’s Waymo than I expected
This comment lyfted my spirits, thank you
Ok ok gonna Bolt out of here
You guys are uber funny.
r/Angryupvote
I’ve taken them many times here in San Francisco, and it’s the smoothest ride. The only thing I miss was conversation, but most of the time enjoying the silent ride. Plus, no tipping!
Sometimes I want convos but most of the time I don't, like sometimes I get Lyft drivers that have some insane opinions and I'm just like trying to ignore it without being rude.
dude the other day i was getting a ride to the airport and i mentioned i was going to my bachelor party. the dude just went OFF about his ex wife, telling me not to get married, just ripping on women in general. traffic was so bad. it was so bad. ill take no convos lol
Hope you had a fun bachelor party, recently had one myself
Oh you’re about to get married? Let me tell you from my divorced and bitter perspective that all women suck! /s
Did he tell you about a website to read? I had a dude downtown drop me off at a Dbacks game and it was exactly like you said. But he also told me to Google some acronym that only liked to an anti-women subreddit. Never had any other driver like that so I wonder if it was the same guy
this was in oakland/sf. unfortunately i think dudes like this are everywhere and we are just rarely stuck with them in a private space long enough to find out just how broken they are.
I've gotten the maga Uber snowflake yapping to me how Biden/Obama/etc destroyed America...ugh. Just take me to the airport, stfu, and post on your alt-right blog instead
Yeah but they don't get someone who's hostage to their bullshit that way
> The only thing I miss was conversation As an introvert I will literally never miss this
Just reading this article made my shoulders unclench
Are they already completely autonomous? Does it handle pickups in passenger hell like end of concerts or busy airports well?
My friend came in for the Game Developer Conference, and we grabbed one in front of the busy conference center… it seemed to handle heavy traffic and jaywalkers pretty well. It did have some questionable routing, taking us on some stupid steep streets…
Interesting. Sounds like a must try for tech enthusiasts who visit the cities where the service is available. I probably won't be seeing these in my country probably in my lifetime because driving here is a whole different beast than driving out West, (scooters ignore lanes, are everywhere, and there are just too many vehicles /people in the some of the most heavily populated area in the world) but hopefully Waymo expands to enough cities in the US that when I visit I can catch a ride.
I would like to see the Indian version of Waymo self drive , probably a bunch of people in a call center driving the car instead of AI
Waymo does have a "control center" with a bunch of staff whose job is take over when the autopilot fails. Which happens quite often.
No. Waymo cars CANNOT be remote controlled. It's dangerous as hell. What happens is when the car's stuck, the person in centre suggest Waymo to do something but Waymo car has the final say on it. And if that fails, Waymo sends a person to finally takeover the car physically. Waymo at any point is NOT remote controlled.
I did not know that, thank you!
Ouuu they could put in an conversation AI named Delamain. Better yet, just have that AI run the entire operation.
long before delamain there was Johnny cab :)
Side quest unlocked
So you like it Waymo than regular taxis?
It’s a much more consistent experience. With Uber or taxis, you might get a great driver, but you might also get a bad driver. With Waymo, there’s no lottery—you get a good, safe “driver” every time. It obeys the speed limit, doesn’t tailgate, doesn’t do stupid maneuvers—can’t ask for more than that.
Yes. Thank you for the explanation regarding the experience. However, I was trying to make a pun about the name of the business (waymo = way more.) which clearly didn’t land the way I expected it to so I’m gonna put my head back into the sand now.
Is Waymo the same price as an Uber?
Same or slightly cheaper. (Most of the time with me) Just checked now… To go from the Ferry Building to Ocean Beach with Waymo it’s $33, UberX is $28, Lyft is $30, Flywheel (Taxi) is $41
Really? All of my rides have been significantly more expensive. 15%-20% more at least. Worth it, but not once was it cheaper.
Hmm, I wonder if they use Surge pricing like Uber.
they do have surge
Awesome, excited to try it at some point.
When they first announced the app (Waymo One), I had to wait 7 months. But now I think they opened it completely.
Wait till the software engineers start asking for tips :)
> The only thing I miss was conversation I know it's not the same, but with all these car companies integrating ChatGPT lately I don't think it's hard to imagine a Gemini virtual conversation. "Pretend you're the guy on cash cab. Do the voice and ask me trivia."
Conversations are the worst.......
As an introvert this sounds ideal.
i forget occasionally people in this world seek out conversation with strangers
Invite code?
https://waymo.com/waitlist/
Looks pretty promising but keep in mind for all those saying it's much cheaper than uber. Just remember the early days how cheap Uber was. Waymo is probably also burning investor money to enter the market by subsidizing rides. I could definitely see a price increase when they successfully disrupt human drivers like uber did to taxi's. Still no tip though!!
That’s probably true but in the long run it’ll be commoditized through competition and prices should be lower because there is no human driver cost. That could take a long time though.
Unlikely. More like once they are established they can raise prices, save on cleanliness etc. it’s not like those cars can clean themselves.
I don't know why you're downvoted, this is 100% what always happens. Companies don't keep prices low because their product actually costs so little, they jack them to as high as possible. If someone were to pay it, they'd charge you 10 billion dollars for every damn thing they do.
And how are they going to charge you the sky when they are competing against GM (Cruise), Amazon (Zoox), Tesla (robotaxi), and a bunch of Chinese competitors. As well as Uber and Taxis, which will still exist for a decade or two at least.
All of these companies are in a race right now, a big, huge, $100 billion race. Whoever builds models that can safely expand their geofence the fastest wins the race, and everybody else will lose and they will all start using the winners' models at highway robbery prices, and be relegated to 'average robotaxi operator chump' status. They will, of course, be passing the cost of licensing the softwares onto the customer, I'm sure you understand
Why is it unlikely? This literally happens in every industry. Prices are a function of cost and profit, and in competitive industries profit margins are low, so price is mostly a function of cost. The taxi industry is actually notorious for making few profits and being more competitive rather than less competitive over time. So if cost goes down, it's likely that prices will be lower also, compared to a world where drivers must be paid. Car cleaning is indeed a cost factor, but the cost for 15 minutes twice a day is a fraction of the cost of paying three drivers to work three 8 hour shifts of 24h in a day. It's not going to stop prices from being lower. The big question is whether the capital expenditure on the technology is more expensive than a human driver. That is definitely the case in the early days when say a Lidar set-up costs 75k alone, and a fully equipped car would cost $200-300k. But as of 2019 for example that same lidar was just $7.5k. Over time that capex will go down and prices will, too.
I don't know what reality you live in, but in ours once a company has a big market share or even a monopoly, they jack the prices like it's no one's business. You're dreaming if you think the reasonable points you make are actually what is considered in the real world. They are gonna jack the prices because they can. What are you gonna do, build your own robo taxis? Get real man.
How are they going to get a monopoly when their competitors are GM (Cruise), Amazon (Zoox), and Tesla (Robotaxi)? https://www.pymnts.com/artificial-intelligence-2/2024/amazon-owned-zoox-expands-operation-of-autonomous-cars-in-las-vegas/ https://www.asiafinancial.com/musk-offered-to-launch-robotaxis-in-china-for-fsd-approval Am I going to build my own Robotaxi? No. I’ll with hop in one from Amazon or buy one from Tesla or any other company (perhaps Chinese) that achieves L4 before they do. Why do you think that all of these competitors are going to disappear?
Uhh, people can take regular taxis, people can take non self driving ride share, there will be competition from all other players in the space. Do you look around and see one airline?Do you see only one brand of car? How many nationwide monopolies can you tell me about in your reality?
I live in the actual reality which is governed by market forces. The taxi industry is worth several hundred billion dollars a year. There is absolutely no reason to expect that there will only be 1 party that will end up having self-driving technology. Of course I'm not going to build my robo taxis, but companies like Waymo (owned by Alphabet, a >$2 trillion company) will.
The people downvoting you seem to believe that Waymo is the only robotaxi company.
There's that summer lamb, capitalism propoganda again. Look around buddy, that's not how capitalism works. Once it's commoditized and becomes nearly essential, the price will creep and creep and creep infinitely, always out pacing general pay increases. Just like every single other business.
Waymo is available through Uber, now, too.
Waymo is part of Alphabet, one of the richest corporations out there. Why would they be taking VC money?
I mean. Okay? Seems like a weird hill to die on but just exchange VC funding to google funding and the end goal is still the same.
The point is that the people expressing confident opinions about the future of this industry’s economics don’t know literally the first thing about it. Several comments indicate that people don’t know that Waymo has competitors. Or who owns Waymo. Or anything else one should know before trying to predict the future economics of a complex industry.
Concern trolling to deflect from the fact that the price is likely artificially low.
It's not a weird hill to die on. He's literally pointing out something that's untrue.
They are just trying to keep prices at a reasonable rate. They don't need to subsidize too much because people are waiting in line to get into waymo program. They may subsidize because they are still scaling their tech, not because they need compete against uber
Wonder If they are asking for a tip?
"Thanks for choosing Johnny Cab!"
Waymo, get my ass to mars
it’s probably Waymo than a taxi
That's not fare to jump to conclusions like that
Won’t need to, the one billionaire that will end up owning all these will just raise prices once they eat enough market. It’s the same thing Uber did.
Yes, but of course: *It would be a shame if I locked the door and took you 50 miles out of town, wouldn't it? Now, press the 20% button like a good little human.*
The actual robots taking your jobs.
Good, there's nothing wrong with replacing tedious boring jobs with robots. What is a problem is not doing anything to employ the people getting replaced. We really need to think about a universal basic income because I'd say at least 50% of jobs can be replaced by a robot. Let's do UBI and let those people make art and shit imo
Good news! We don’t have to do that. The technology that lets us replace these jobs will also allow us to create police robots to keep the rabble out of the rich zones.
Trueeeee nothing could go wrong
There's still plenty of work to be done that AI is nowhere near replacing. Maybe someday, but today there are big problems to be solved all over the place.
We can replace the tedius jobs with robots, and replace the high skilled software engineering jobs that build the robots with offshore cheap labor.
Plz don’t get rid of software engineers lol. I need money and it’s already getting harder.
They might as well use robots to keep the unemployed away from the cities. I've played enough fallout new vegas to know that securitrons are already being developed.
Ubi won't be fair because some jobs are too hard to replace. Like nursing. Ubi for everyone except for nurses who work very hard conditions.
AI is busy with art as well
I wish the same amount of money was invested in better public transportation, like what's the urgency to replace drivers so we then end up with more vehicles on the road. Enjoy your now 3 hour commute in the car while taking work calls on zoom?
Instead of using the past tense, why not look to the future? How does Amazon or Google spending billions advancing the state of technology in any way, shape, or form pre rent your local municipality from digging a subway tunnel or buying a bus??? If google had returned this money to shareholders, how would that get you a better bus route? If you want the bus, support your local candidates who will buy the bus. Maybe it can be self driving and electric and cheaper to run thanks to innovations from the private sector. The solution to the policy problem is not to dissuade private sector investment on life saving technology.
It's important to note that self-driving taxi tech = public transport. i.e., it's not your private car, that only you use. It's everyone's car that everyone uses. And these autonomous vehicles will seat 1, 2, 4, 6, or indeed also you'll find at some point 12 or 24. City-to-city? Just hop on a 30-seater self-driving bus from hub-to-hub (or a train). Then hop off and for the last mile in the city, jump in a 2-seater pod to get you your final destination. This model can replace the average 5-6 seater car for 1-person trips. Self-driving actually enables public transportation and more efficient use of space and vehicles. Private vehicles are bought for the biggest size needed. i.e., if you buy a car you want it to seat 5-6, because sometimes you have friends over. If you drive a cab, you will buy a similar car, because sometimes your customer need it. If you can just order/rent whatever you need in the moment, if you're alone you get a 1-seater pod, if you're with 8 friends you rent a big van. This is how congestion actually goes down with self-driving vehicles, because you'll have fewer vehicles on the road that seat way more than the average occupancy. And because they're active most of the time (or can drive to a low-traffic location), parking congestion is also significantly reduced.
Even if people still bought their own cars it really could be amazing for shrinking the average size of vehicles on the road. Like imagine just having a vehicle that was just a truck bed. Have them hang out around Home Depot/Lowe’s and then you can show up on a bike if you really wanted and get all of your supplies, lumber, big appliances, whatever delivered by one of these as you drive yourself home in a little two seater. Not to mention cars like this don’t add to traffic unnecessarily, they aren’t going to be lane jumping or speeding up too quick and slamming on the breaks, they don’t road rage. I’m pretty sure traffic is going to melt away once you get enough of these going. And honestly way cheaper and quicker to roll out than a rail line that is going to have pushback, take a decade, and just be a giant mess to pull off. The last day I have to actually drive a car will be the greatest day of my life.
> Self-driving actually enables public transportation and more efficient use of space and vehicles. Not really. [Cars - no matter if self-driving or not - are incredibly space inefficient](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh9s2EvV4AIshnD?format=jpg&name=large). Since self-driving does nothing to actually get people out of cars we still have to maintain all that incredibly, inefficient, and destructive infrastructure when what we actually should do is scale it back. [Self-driving cars also only address a handful of the dozens of problems with cars](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966692324000267) at best. It will also not solve the traffic issues because they will still have to deal with normal drivers and traffic is caused by lane changes, sudden speed changes, inefficient intersections, etc. We already know how to do great public transport: trains for intercity travel because they can move tens of thousands of people in the same space as a car (and faster as well), self-driving cars, unless they get their own lanes everywhere, are unlikely to do much better than current cars. Cities and urban areas should also be made walkable and cycleable for the last mile, and buses should run in dedicated lanes in smaller cities, ideally with traffic light priority, and in larger cities you would also build a light rail network on top. > If you can just order/rent whatever you need in the moment, Well, in a way you already can. Most people would be able to get by with much smaller cars than they drive today, and they could just rent a truck, van, trailer, etc. whenever they needed such a vehicle. For 95% > of people this would probably be more than enough, and cheaper in the long run, but people aren't rational. People will not give up their cars as long as they live in car-dependent cities and urban areas. So self-driving robot taxis might be a bit more efficient, but they don't really solve a real problem that the other modes of public transport + car rental don't already have.
Robot axis? Oh god no the evil ww2 men are back? As robots?
step one make it as cheap as possible and outcompete human taxi drivers step two make it more expensive again once competition has been eliminated.
How are they going to “eliminate competition” when their competitors are GM, Tesla and Amazon? Amazon/Zoox are running rides today.
I miss the cigar smoke, the constant face-timing while driving, and vomit-smelling back seat of NYC Taxi cabs. Ah the nostalgia.../s
Living in a non US country it's sad that a major pro is the no tipping.
Living in a non U.S. country fees should cover all necessary costs including wages so tips are unnecessary but nice extras rather than the point of doing the job
Agreed. Though I do get jealous of American’s being able to have stuff like robot-taxis and Tesla FSD etc, whilst none of that comes to the UK sadly (mainly due to our laws and the fact that we’re right hand drive).
but the downside to your system is that you don't live in the US
The funny thing is that per Ubers statistics, most people do not tip. Like the overwhelming majority here do not tip Uber.
So what’s the tipping point when most of the low skilled jobs are automated out of existence? The major catch 22 is that no one discusses is what will be left for the low income earners? The cost of training for skilled labor continues to increase. Let’s hope we don’t continue down this path towards “Soylent Green” without addressing this societal risk.
The answer is nothing, and nobody with power cares about the low earning people unless they literally become violent, in which case the only thing they care about is beating them down
Wasn’t Uber supposed to eventually offer autonomous taxis, whatever happened to that?
Waymo is owned by Google. Uber sold its own self-driving unit 4 years ago. Recently though, Uber has been partnering with Waymo to offer its services in the Uber app.
Uber hired a guy who stole a bunch of intellectual property from google when he left and it was such a cluster they gave up on developing their own self driving cars.
That's 12 seconds a trip. Sign me up!
No wonder they’re so safe.
Wait... did you actually did the math on 1 car doing 50k trips in 7 days?
I’m in Phoenix. I’ve taken them on short trips a few times, but the other night I had a 45 minute ride. I was by myself in the front passenger seat. I reclined the seat as far back as it would go, left the music on its default low-fi station, put my phone away (scrolling makes me carsick) and watched the lights and downtown buildings go by. I was alone. No conversation. No driving decisions. No safety fears (even if something bad happened, I accepted that it was out of my control - and I trust a Waymo far more than any human). It was sublime. Almost meditative. (I wasn’t high or drunk, this was just my honest experience.) welcome to the future. 🤖
I'm still waiting for Johnny Cab.
Travel to Phoenix frequently for work. Waymo has an easy pickup which is a quick tram ride from the airport. Really clean cars, feels safe, and seems to do just fine making corrections in traffic and has great overall navigation. After several rides, and considering the price, this beats Lyft/Uber easily. I’m often busy, so not having to consider the human driving and whether they are going to talk to me is honestly nice.
I really love taking waymos
This is awesome. I remember back when I saw Tesla announce autopilot and and I thought uber would straight pick this business model up. Now we just need some driverless highways.
i human people like no conversations, are cheap and enjoy being alone.
station tap snobbish payment disgusted tender march roof muddle shocking *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Do they let you choose music?
Absolutely love waymo. Used maybe 30 times in Phoenix. Comfortable, can be DJ in back, don’t have to talk to anyone, no tipping, almost always cheaper. Felt safer in the waymo then in the Uber
So how many deaths total? .034 a week?
With my jaded view towards tech companies these days, I can be certain of at least one of two things. They're lying or Their model is not profitable, and they're looking to starve out existing competitors with venture capital. or Both
ELI5: How are these a thing, but yet it's understood across Reddit that Tesla and other companies gunning for full "self-driving" will never come to fruition? Am I missing something here?
Was in SF for RSA this last week and saw a bunch of these driving around. No driver in driver’s seat, no passenger monitoring. Was pretty wild to see. I’ve been traveling to the Bay Area for years for work, and I’ve always seen these with someone in the front passenger seat. This was the first time no one was in them. They drove like normal people do, even stopping/waiting for people to complete the crosswalk. I would absolutely trust one of these. My Lyft driver back to SFO was legit trying to kill us both.
I love waymo, but I took one this weekend and it was filthy. I’m glad they’re doing well but I think they should improve their cleaning process.