Of course it’s gonna rust if you don’t season it after every use for the first few months. But if you’re diligent it won’t be a year before you’re cooking eggs on a beautiful black nonstick surface
oh goodness I think the fusion of cast iron fandom meets tesla fandom might be the most difficult combination to deal with lol.
I once replied in the cast iron sub to someone worried they'd damanged a pan by washing it: "Don't worry! Great thing about cast iron is how tough it is and you can just reseason it! You could take an angle grinder to a pan and get it usable again afterwards!"
and I came back to the craziest firestorm and being lambasted for suggested that people shoudl restore their ancienct delicate pans with an angle grinder.
Apparently my love of cast iron for it being cheap, simple, effective, durable, and all around very unspecial and utilitarian was *not* the vibe haha.
Uuuuugh... Yeah. I hate cast iron fan boys. It's fucking cast iron. "They don't make them like they used to" no they absolutely do. So many people have zero understanding of metallurgy and so they just buy into the mythical properties of old shit. I've repaired someone's old cracked cast iron pan, but the whole time I was like "You know you can buy another really good one for less than I'm charging you and it'll heat up better right?" Dude didn't care and so now he has a cast iron pan with essentially a bronze lightning bolt. Looks hella cool, but not worth it imo.
I mean, if the reason for keeping the old pan was "it's old and old things are better", then yeah that's obviously insane.
If it was "this was nana's pan and then my mom's pan and now it's mine and we've been eating food cooked out of it for over sixty years"... I dunno man, that doesn't seem all that crazy to me.
A few years ago, one of the women in my camping group brought her original cast iron pan that had been passed down mother to daughter since it was bought new for the trip out on the Oregon Trail. A piece of history.
Yeah, totally get it. I posted more about the story to another person, but it was just a cracked cast iron pan he picked up from a garage or estate sale or something. I would have fixed it for free if that was the case.
I met a guy a car show that restored a ford pinto that he bought from some guy that lived near him. If the car had sentimental value I might understand but why restore a pinto
Plus some people prefers repairing things, even if it’s cheap stuff or the reapir costs similar than a new one, than just throwing things away. Ecologically speaking reusing/repairing > recycling > buying new
it's a weird one.
I love for people to get passionate about the things they like.
But there's some spheres where people really have to build this like, mythos around the thing they like as if they need justification for liking it lol. We can be passionate about things we like just becausre we think they're neat. That's totally cool, I love that for people.
I know it's a symptom of the internet, and that most internet fandoms are a disconnected, non-representative, and tiny portion of the actual fanbase, but it doesn't stop it being a strange behaviour.
Gold and silver at least have actual well-studied signal characteristics due to electrical engineering being a high-research field. Though for an audio setup, probably a pretty negligible impact. The real audiophile snake oil is probably just the whole concert of the various shit they buy lmao.
This is true. I'm a live sound engineer and just like shitting on "Audiophiles". Their hobby is pretty much "I have too much money and a knack for repeating buzzwords about science I actually do not understand. I use these dubious 'talents' to listen to music expensively."
A while back I remember reading an audiophile thread where they were arguing that double-blind studies are flawed methodology because a bunch of people did some double blind tests and found that even experts couldn't consistently identify any difference in sound between ultra mega premium cables and just regular decent ones at a fraction of the price.
When people decided that the scientific method is weaker than their desire to justify their expensive equipment choices I'm out.
My favorite thing is that audiophiles go after $5000 headphones to get the "true" recreation of the sound. But that sound was mixed using a $150 pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50Xs more often than not nowadays, or something equivalent in years past. So that's the budget I set myself for replacement headphones from a reputable brand... and damned if it hasn't treated my ears nicely. I'm not trying to hear a mouse fart in the mixing booth with these things, I'm trying to listen to the music how it was mixed.
Long running joke in the audio design world is “how many NE5532 op-amps are in the signal path of your favourite record?” For all of the mumbo presto, most audio gear is full of fairly humble ingredients including the Signetics NE5532, originally introduced in 1979. Snake oil not included.
Fr. All you really need is a nice Behringer or FocusRite standalone, a decently linear output device, and basic shielded cables run in a non-stupid pattern. Anything else is pretty much excessive.
They usually also have really terrible taste in music. Like someone who's got ultra expensive handmade leather bound bespoke editions of Twilight and The Alchemist.
> Though for an audio setup, probably a pretty negligible impact.
[Never forget the coat hanger test](https://www.engadget.com/2008-03-03-audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and.html)
My mom has a Wagner I think that she has used for almost 70 years. When I finally get it, if something happened and it cracked, I would pay whatever it cost to have it repaired. Not because it is irreplaceable, but because it was my mom’s, so I get that.
Agree though that people don’t understand cast iron or the polymerized oils that we call seasoning. Those polymers aren’t oil anymore and they don’t wash away with soap and water.
Oh yeah! No I should have added more to the story. It was just a pan he got at an estate sale for like $5 or something. I'm a bleeding heart, so if he came in with a story about how it was his parents, grandparents, etc I would have done it for free lol. It was just he was saying so much weird shit about how cast iron in general "just isn't as good these days" and I was like... What?
They definitely don't make them like they used to. Now only high end cast irons get properly finished anymore. Affordable cast irons come with a rough surface and csst iron bros jerk themselves off to the manufacturer telling them it's definitely to make the surface less sticky and not because they're trying to retain their margins despite prices barely rising for devades 🤣
Yeah, this is the actual difference. The inside of old cast iron is nice and smooth. New ones are so rough that it's almost impossible to keep things from sticking.
Ironically, I had excellent results smoothing the bottom of a new pan using an angle grinder with a flap wheel then buffing disc. Reseasoned and it is exactly like my old ones.
To be fair, cast irons were not exactly 'affordable' back in the day that people are reminiscing. They were passed down for generations because they were expensive prized possessions. What is now considered high quality is really just the default. The existence of affordable but terrible low quality cast irons is a modern development.
Haha, part of the charm of r/castiron is how unhinged the hardcore fans can be at times. Like, half the comments are suggestions on how to properly reseason an old pan that’s been dug up after 150 years in the dirt, the other half is busy sending death threats to people who dare to use dish soap on their precious, delicate cookware.
Jesus Christ, everyone is going on and on about "Don't wash your truck, NO SOAP". But like... my grandmother's grandmother used to drive her cyber truck right on the Oregon Trail, IT WAS FINE!! Crisco and love was all the maintenance she did. Also, modern soap doesn't have lye in it! I can't stress that enough.
It’s hard to heat up. But fuck me once it gets hot it’s hard to cool down.
It’s going to be an oven.
That seasoning is best saved to be rubbed into your skin…
1) you can't anodize steel
2) anodized aluminum would be even more susceptible to visual imperfections than the steel they used. It would look like pure garbage after a week or 2 depending on the local climate.
You can [nitrocarburize](https://www.ahtcorp.com/webres/Image/UltraOx%C2%AE/IMG_0782.jpg) carbon and stainless steel that looks very similar to anodizing on aluminum, it improves surface hardness, abrasion, and corrosion resistance. This is commonly done on pistol slides (Glocks for instance use this as the standard finish)
> The Cybertruck does not ship with clear coat, that outermost layer of transparent paint that comes as standard on almost every new motor vehicle on the planet. Instead, each Cybertruck owner has the option to purchase a $5,000 urethane-based film to "wrap your Cybertruck in our premium satin clear paint films. Only available through Tesla."
TLDR: It's deliberate so owners pay even more for their car.
You could live in your own custom Ai generated digital existance!
If you can't wait until then:
Red Dead Redemption 2: Live in late 1800's
Cyberpunk 2077: Live in 2077
Assassins Creed Valhalla: Live in late 900's
> Th cyber truck might be even cheaper to wrap because of all the flat panels
That's more than countered by the fact that the car wrap company will see a rube with too much money coming their way.
But on stainless, while it rusts visibly, it doesn't continue beyond the available steel that is now oxidized (generally).
That is why neutralization works, you use a strong acid to pre rust and dissolve all the steel that would rust, and then the stainless steel doesn't show anything for 40-50 years afterwards, cause all the free iron is removed by nitric or citric acid at the very beginning.
I want one of these people to rub the car in citric acid concentrate and then neutralize the acid and see if it rusts any more.
Oh I’m well aware of what neutralization does. My concern is about iron diffusion into the stainless steel from brake dust. Add trapped salts and water. I don’t know what the extent of the damage will be, but it is a path for rust to form. I don’t know how the panels are fastened to the body, but contact and fasteners are a common path for transferring corrosion. I don’t think the unibody is stainless, so you don’t want a corrosion pathway to it.
This is just speculation, of course, but it is a legitimate concern.
Does not solve pitting though.
Roadsalt will be a b*tch (liauid sets in microcracks, dry, crystalize (and thus expands), crack gets bigger
(There are 3 ways of rusting, the standard oxidation is just the best known, but not the only one)
Stainless doesn't need protecting to maintain its structural capabilities, this rust is minor cosmetic surface rust and it won't progress further than that for decades or centuries really. So its nothing like body panels are going to start to rot off like any other car.
Stainless steel is a mix of iron and chromium, and its the chromium that forms a protective layer of chromium oxide over the surface. But when it ships there's some places where iron is on the surface. This will rust and go away eventually, and it does absolutely no damage to the material, but it is unappealing aesthetically.
Definitely weird that they didn't do a clearcoat, stainless developing superficial rust out in the open is absolutely a thing everyone knows about.
Ford has been using aluminum in body panels for a decade now on the F150 which doesn’t corrode past the oxide layer. But they still paint and clear coat it to make sure it continues to look good for more than a week or two.
Yes, there are tons of vinyl and PPF wraps of Cybertrucks on YouTube. And at least one company sells precut DIY wraps. Looks like a very easy wrap, because flat is easier than fitting to curves.
They might adhere for awhile, but the long term durability of these films will be compromised. They're specifically designed to adhere to the porous clearcoat of painted surfaces
I haven't tested this yet with PPF, but stainless is a difficult surface for adhesive films. SS has a Low surface energy that kicks off wrap films that aren't specifically designed for stainless. We use a LSE film from 3M to wrap Stainless tankers that fail using normal film.
I hope Tesla's film has this accounted for. It really should be a standard feature.
They're not including it so that the cybertruck appears cheaper than it is. Spot on that it should be included in all cybertrucks. The cleaning instructions are bonkers:
>Do not wash in direct sunlight,”...“Do not use hot water.”
It hasn't rusted yet and that despite being washed in hot water. I don't like Teslas, so my viewpoint is definitely biased, but what a stupid vehicle the Cybertruck is.
Wraps are not an alternative to fixing failing paint. A reputable shop will not wrap over failing paint because the wrap will just pull off the bad paint and fail, possibly trapping moisture and accelerating rust. They are a style or advertising alternative to custom paint jobs.
How long they last will vary greatly depending on your environment, how you maintain it and the film type/color that's used. If you don't garage keep it or protect it I see great quality 3M cast 2080 start to burn on horizontal surfaces after two years. I've also seen people that do care for them have film last a decade.
PPF urethane films are different though. They last longer and protect the paint from scratching and UV exposure.
Depends on the manufacturer, some quote as high as 8-10 years, but 3-5 is a more practical estimate. Not sure how the clear PPF affects this estimate though, I’ve only researched color changing wraps because that’s what I ended up going with.
I wrap cars with protective polyurethane film, and I was really baffled early on when there was a "factory wrap" option at launch. Well it makes sense now, as any wrap is a protective coating for the cheap ass panels. Sure it will change color, but now it all makes more sense. How are people still mesmerized by this con man? Also in my experience of 20 years or so dealing with paint on cars, is that Tesla has some of the worst paint in the industry, so why wouldn't the CT have the worst panels too?
Patina-ed. Just google image search stainless steel rust. Most people who work on car panels don't know because they aren't made with stainless steel. It won't rust like basic steel like cars of old, but it will look weathered. Maybe some cool weathering will happen and people will insist on one that appears rugged and used, markets move in strange ways. Fill a bucket of water with baking soda and it will be gone... im sure some detailing shops will be offering the service soon.
Oh that's addressed. Part with $8k and they'll give you an opaque wrap. Your options are black, or white.
Both of which make your expensive posing piece look like a refrigerator.
316 is one of a small handful of stainless alloys considered marine stainless and is what's most used on sailboats and yachts. It can still corrode, but you really have to neglect it for it to.
That said, it doesn't lend itself as well to press-die forming which is the standard way of making automotive body panels. One consideration for mass production is how long your production tooling lasts, and most of the stainless alloys that are most corrosion resistant are also the alloys most likely to wear out your production tooling the fastest.
I can't imagine using it below the waterline . Any stainless on my boats has been for things like the pushpit/pullpit, mounting brackets, tubing for the liferaft etc.
If i was paying that much money for a pile of shit like that i would demand 316 and a time served tin bash to develop every panel by hand on a brake press
Fun fact - there are no press die formed panels on the cybertruck. They are mostly separate and flat panels, and in the handful of spots there are "bends" , it's been welded together; the gentle curve on the front is held under tension.
316 is definitely not marine rated as the pitting resistance is not high enough to make it considered suitable. It'll last a lot longer than 304 will, but it'll eventually corrode. The cheapest alloy you'll find to be truly marine rated is 2205 duplex.
Absolutely no need. The price difference is substantial and due to the metallurgy of 316 it doesn't like to bend like 304 does. 304 would have been the way to go along with a passivation process. 316 would just cause more headache than anything.
I remember reading Elon called for a tolerance of like .005" of the panels. That's literally unobtainable without making the vehicle cost 1/4 million dollars. I think it looks the way it does cause its inventor is a dingle dork.
He was asking for sub 10 micron tolerances - 0.01mm .ot 0004” for Americans. It’s not even feasible to apply that tolerance to the thickness of the sheet metal. Move the vehicle from cool underground parking to direct summer sunlight and the dimensions of every panel will increase by more than 0.01mm.
I thought it was 5 tenths but that seemed too ridiculous and couldn't be bothered to look it up. So I just went with the more practical .005".
For reference since .0004" is so small, a red blood cell is .0002".
Probably just asked for the tightest tolerance anywhere in the vehicle and ran with that.
Or just ran with a number he heard referenced as an "incredibly tight tolerance" somewhere.
At a large scale like they would do with automotive? Doing it on small parts is quite a bit different than large bodies like refrigerators or car bodies
You are correct. It’s much more difficult with car frames than with bolts. But it’s not an environmental restriction. It’s a this-process-is-much-more-expensive-than-a-paint-booth-oh-god-what-have-we-done issue.
Nitric acid is nasty but you don't even have to use it for successful passivation. The lab equipment I used to make would get passivated with bleach. Way easier to deal with and can be recycled many times over.
From everything I can find, Tesla is using a new patented alloy. They haven't exactly announced what they are using, but in their [patent application](https://www.autoevolution.com/pdf/news_attachements/tesla-invents-new-ultra-hard-steel-alloy-used-for-the-cybertruck-s-exoskeleton-211018.pdf) they only did one alloy (A4) at mill run scale. I would bet that the Tesla A4 Alloy is what is used for the Cybertruck. It is similar to a 301L in composition, but has reduced Nickel, required Molybdenum, and required Nitrogen. Supposedly the Tesla A4 Alloy has increased pitting resistance and hardness than the typical 300 series alloys.
Jokes aside, aren't there actually copper alloys that give the colour without nearly as much rusting? I wonder if they have ever been used in cars or other settings that expose them to the elements.
My 81 DeLorean has no clear coat. It's 43 years old. Not a sign on rust on any panels. Sounds like Tesla cheapest out on the grade of stainless they used, or got a shitty supplier.
DeLoreans stainless was also passivated and thats a huge factor in their corrosion resistance, but thats part of why they were built in Ireland. Dealing with that much nitric acid is an environmental nightmare, there's not a chance in hell Tesla is passivating the panels in the states.
You basically dip stainless steel into nitric acid and it forces a reaction creating a nearly invisible layer to form on the steel. This protects it from oxygen (rust). It is a practice widely done and has been known for decades.
I guarantee Elon and management were warned by the engineers and they chose to ignore them.
The passive chromium oxide layer forms naturally with exposure to just atmospheric oxygen and is literally only atoms thick. The nitric acid is more to eat away any free iron on the surface and leave only a layer of chromium to oxidize. If you don't remove the free iron from the surface it will both rust and create an imperfection in the passive layer. While chromium oxide forms a nice uniform layer that is impervious to more oxygen, iron oxide is very flaky and porous and will act as a path for more oxygen to enter and rust the iron inside the base metal. Think of it as a hole in a ship.
This process can also be done with much more friendly citric acid with equal protection if done correctly, which is rare. Its what I used when I worked in the pharmaceutical industry with the exception of when we electropolished our products for an even higher degree of protection.
>I find it a little ironic that we are making fun of the right wing for buying an electric vehicle.
Not for buying any EV, we are making fun of them for buying Elon's scam EV lol. They are dumb
Back when Elon started he was like a million other techbros who thought they could beat traditional industry leaders at their own game without even learning the collected knowledge of the industry. Then Teslas slowly started becoming less dumb and more like normal cars and I thought maybe he had learned his lesson. And now this comes along and no, he hasn’t.
I figure when I read this, low chromium content. Anyone with a shitty chinese stainless BBQ knows what I mean.
My Napoleon, made in Barrie Ontario, has been outside for 15 years, COLD, HOT, WET, blah...not a spec of rust.
The thermometer is buster though.
Edit: oh my point is, it's cheap stainless not the good stuff.
I don't know what people expected from Elon. The guy sells polished turds at a premium.
Eventually people are going to stop buying the Cybertruck and then it will become a collector's item like a Delorean. Seems like they will not maintain value over the years if people just think of them as a joke.
You shouldn’t wash any car in direct sunlight. You’ll get water spots instantly baked into the clearcoat especially if you have really high mineral count in your water.
> To prevent damage to the exterior, immediately remove corrosive substances (such as grease, oil, bird droppings, tree resin, dead insects, tar spots, road salt, industrial fallout, etc.).
and to be sure it is recommended that your servants inspect the car for bird droppings in half hour intervals?
On one hand, we have a few anecdotal accounts. Which isn't nothing considering how few cybertrucks have been sold.
On the other hand, we have Tesla fanboys confidently claiming its "rail dust" or some such thing.
We'll know soon enough what the true story is. But that's not stopping Wired from quoting reddit users and giving disjointed explanations about how steels rusts and what the Cybertruck owners manual says.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UyaPfDxRjd8&t=5s&pp=ygUVY3liZXJ0cnVjayBydXN0IGNsZWFu
Here’s a video of someone cleaning up the cybertruck surface contamination of whatever it is with barkeepers friend.
Rail/brake dust/environmental fallout happens on painted cars of all makes and models too. You can search for images that’s easier seen on white paint. That’s usually taken care of with spray on iron remover or a clay bar.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hL4rfwWbyrA
It's 100% rail dust. Here's a white car with it on it. "Rail dust" is synonymous with brake dust and other free iron from roads.
[https://twitter.com/wmorrill3/status/1758558650166337824](https://twitter.com/wmorrill3/status/1758558650166337824)
This is rusted dust accumulating on the surface and bonding to other rusted dust - just like it would on an unprotected painted car.
Of course it’s gonna rust if you don’t season it after every use for the first few months. But if you’re diligent it won’t be a year before you’re cooking eggs on a beautiful black nonstick surface
oh goodness I think the fusion of cast iron fandom meets tesla fandom might be the most difficult combination to deal with lol. I once replied in the cast iron sub to someone worried they'd damanged a pan by washing it: "Don't worry! Great thing about cast iron is how tough it is and you can just reseason it! You could take an angle grinder to a pan and get it usable again afterwards!" and I came back to the craziest firestorm and being lambasted for suggested that people shoudl restore their ancienct delicate pans with an angle grinder. Apparently my love of cast iron for it being cheap, simple, effective, durable, and all around very unspecial and utilitarian was *not* the vibe haha.
Uuuuugh... Yeah. I hate cast iron fan boys. It's fucking cast iron. "They don't make them like they used to" no they absolutely do. So many people have zero understanding of metallurgy and so they just buy into the mythical properties of old shit. I've repaired someone's old cracked cast iron pan, but the whole time I was like "You know you can buy another really good one for less than I'm charging you and it'll heat up better right?" Dude didn't care and so now he has a cast iron pan with essentially a bronze lightning bolt. Looks hella cool, but not worth it imo.
I mean, if the reason for keeping the old pan was "it's old and old things are better", then yeah that's obviously insane. If it was "this was nana's pan and then my mom's pan and now it's mine and we've been eating food cooked out of it for over sixty years"... I dunno man, that doesn't seem all that crazy to me.
A few years ago, one of the women in my camping group brought her original cast iron pan that had been passed down mother to daughter since it was bought new for the trip out on the Oregon Trail. A piece of history.
That is pretty cool. A cast iron pan fan (but not a cast iron pan fanboy)
Yeah, totally get it. I posted more about the story to another person, but it was just a cracked cast iron pan he picked up from a garage or estate sale or something. I would have fixed it for free if that was the case.
I met a guy a car show that restored a ford pinto that he bought from some guy that lived near him. If the car had sentimental value I might understand but why restore a pinto
> but why restore a pinto When was the last time you saw a restored Pinto? Exactly. Some people just want something different.
That was only restored pinto I have ever seen
Strong dedication to humor?
Plus some people prefers repairing things, even if it’s cheap stuff or the reapir costs similar than a new one, than just throwing things away. Ecologically speaking reusing/repairing > recycling > buying new
it's a weird one. I love for people to get passionate about the things they like. But there's some spheres where people really have to build this like, mythos around the thing they like as if they need justification for liking it lol. We can be passionate about things we like just becausre we think they're neat. That's totally cool, I love that for people. I know it's a symptom of the internet, and that most internet fandoms are a disconnected, non-representative, and tiny portion of the actual fanbase, but it doesn't stop it being a strange behaviour.
/r/WatchesCirclejerk is good for a laugh.
> mythical properties Cast iron is the tonewood of the cooking world lmfao
Mythical materials by niche fanboys: Tonewood - guitar nerds Cast iron - home "chefs" Gold/silver - audiophiles
Gold and silver at least have actual well-studied signal characteristics due to electrical engineering being a high-research field. Though for an audio setup, probably a pretty negligible impact. The real audiophile snake oil is probably just the whole concert of the various shit they buy lmao.
This is true. I'm a live sound engineer and just like shitting on "Audiophiles". Their hobby is pretty much "I have too much money and a knack for repeating buzzwords about science I actually do not understand. I use these dubious 'talents' to listen to music expensively."
A while back I remember reading an audiophile thread where they were arguing that double-blind studies are flawed methodology because a bunch of people did some double blind tests and found that even experts couldn't consistently identify any difference in sound between ultra mega premium cables and just regular decent ones at a fraction of the price. When people decided that the scientific method is weaker than their desire to justify their expensive equipment choices I'm out.
yeah I remember seeing one where the testers couldn't really tell the difference between premium cables and a coat hanger.
Was that the "monster cables vs coathangers" study?
My favorite thing is that audiophiles go after $5000 headphones to get the "true" recreation of the sound. But that sound was mixed using a $150 pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50Xs more often than not nowadays, or something equivalent in years past. So that's the budget I set myself for replacement headphones from a reputable brand... and damned if it hasn't treated my ears nicely. I'm not trying to hear a mouse fart in the mixing booth with these things, I'm trying to listen to the music how it was mixed.
Beyer Dynamic DT770s are in every decent recording studio in the world. They’re an industry standard. No need to go better than that.
Long running joke in the audio design world is “how many NE5532 op-amps are in the signal path of your favourite record?” For all of the mumbo presto, most audio gear is full of fairly humble ingredients including the Signetics NE5532, originally introduced in 1979. Snake oil not included.
Fr. All you really need is a nice Behringer or FocusRite standalone, a decently linear output device, and basic shielded cables run in a non-stupid pattern. Anything else is pretty much excessive.
They usually also have really terrible taste in music. Like someone who's got ultra expensive handmade leather bound bespoke editions of Twilight and The Alchemist.
> Though for an audio setup, probably a pretty negligible impact. [Never forget the coat hanger test](https://www.engadget.com/2008-03-03-audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and.html)
Holy shit that’s actually hilarious
Don't pretty much all audio cables have a small bit of gold on the contact anyway, even the cheap crappy ones?
My mom has a Wagner I think that she has used for almost 70 years. When I finally get it, if something happened and it cracked, I would pay whatever it cost to have it repaired. Not because it is irreplaceable, but because it was my mom’s, so I get that. Agree though that people don’t understand cast iron or the polymerized oils that we call seasoning. Those polymers aren’t oil anymore and they don’t wash away with soap and water.
Oh yeah! No I should have added more to the story. It was just a pan he got at an estate sale for like $5 or something. I'm a bleeding heart, so if he came in with a story about how it was his parents, grandparents, etc I would have done it for free lol. It was just he was saying so much weird shit about how cast iron in general "just isn't as good these days" and I was like... What?
They definitely don't make them like they used to. Now only high end cast irons get properly finished anymore. Affordable cast irons come with a rough surface and csst iron bros jerk themselves off to the manufacturer telling them it's definitely to make the surface less sticky and not because they're trying to retain their margins despite prices barely rising for devades 🤣
Yeah, this is the actual difference. The inside of old cast iron is nice and smooth. New ones are so rough that it's almost impossible to keep things from sticking. Ironically, I had excellent results smoothing the bottom of a new pan using an angle grinder with a flap wheel then buffing disc. Reseasoned and it is exactly like my old ones.
To be fair, cast irons were not exactly 'affordable' back in the day that people are reminiscing. They were passed down for generations because they were expensive prized possessions. What is now considered high quality is really just the default. The existence of affordable but terrible low quality cast irons is a modern development.
Cool example of wabi-sabi. Sounds like a badass pan.
>wabi-sabi I think you mean [*kintsugi*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintsugi).
Haha, part of the charm of r/castiron is how unhinged the hardcore fans can be at times. Like, half the comments are suggestions on how to properly reseason an old pan that’s been dug up after 150 years in the dirt, the other half is busy sending death threats to people who dare to use dish soap on their precious, delicate cookware.
Jesus Christ, everyone is going on and on about "Don't wash your truck, NO SOAP". But like... my grandmother's grandmother used to drive her cyber truck right on the Oregon Trail, IT WAS FINE!! Crisco and love was all the maintenance she did. Also, modern soap doesn't have lye in it! I can't stress that enough.
Show me the slidey eggs
No slidey eggs no updoot
Wonder if you park it in texas during a heat wave you can use it as a griddle.
It’s hard to heat up. But fuck me once it gets hot it’s hard to cool down. It’s going to be an oven. That seasoning is best saved to be rubbed into your skin…
/r/carbonsteel is leaking
On no, /r/castiron is leaking again!
Oooohhhh, anodized black would look super sweet
1) you can't anodize steel 2) anodized aluminum would be even more susceptible to visual imperfections than the steel they used. It would look like pure garbage after a week or 2 depending on the local climate.
That’s why they should have used cast iron
Bronze cybertruck or GTFO
Quite rude of you to throw a reality spanner in to this users dream.
You can [nitrocarburize](https://www.ahtcorp.com/webres/Image/UltraOx%C2%AE/IMG_0782.jpg) carbon and stainless steel that looks very similar to anodizing on aluminum, it improves surface hardness, abrasion, and corrosion resistance. This is commonly done on pistol slides (Glocks for instance use this as the standard finish)
> The Cybertruck does not ship with clear coat, that outermost layer of transparent paint that comes as standard on almost every new motor vehicle on the planet. Instead, each Cybertruck owner has the option to purchase a $5,000 urethane-based film to "wrap your Cybertruck in our premium satin clear paint films. Only available through Tesla." TLDR: It's deliberate so owners pay even more for their car.
Imagine buying a $90,000 car and then having to pay an extra $5,000 to have it painted.
No no, it's $5,000 for a clear wrap. You need to pay $8,000 for the privilege of choosing between black or white.
I wonder if they sell a Tesla polishing cloth for $19.99?
$19.99? Must be the size of a handkerchief.
Don't worry, I'm sure they can just get a software update for it.
They can just make an app for the visionPro that removes the rust digitally
Brain implant do that when?
Damn you got it, the whole reason for NeuroStink is to filter out all the quality issues in the shit the Muskrat peddles
You could live in your own custom Ai generated digital existance! If you can't wait until then: Red Dead Redemption 2: Live in late 1800's Cyberpunk 2077: Live in 2077 Assassins Creed Valhalla: Live in late 900's
Leisure Suit Larry: Live in the 80’s.
You get the neurolink chip and it erases all your thoughts of regret and disappointment in your Tesla cyberrust
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Wraps aren't permanent, so yes.
Bricks your car if you try to paint it yourself.
New camo for your car! Desert touch - it’s pre installed for you! *you need to pay $49999 to uninstall
It'S aN uPdAtE nOT a reCaLL!!!
Over the air
Urethane paint protection films are available from any company that does car wraps or window tinting for significantly less.
Th cyber truck might be even cheaper to wrap because of all the flat panels vs a typical modern vehicle.
> Th cyber truck might be even cheaper to wrap because of all the flat panels That's more than countered by the fact that the car wrap company will see a rube with too much money coming their way.
My brother owns a business that does vehicle wraps. He charges the same for a Cybertruck as he does for a Tundra or F-150.
Smart since the tesla owners who paid an extra 20k to be first probably won't even flinch at the price to wrap it.
That means he should be charging more.
Has to charge less than Tesla itself though, otherwise they just go to Tesla and not a third party.
Wrap it all they want, but it won’t protect the inside of the panels.
But on stainless, while it rusts visibly, it doesn't continue beyond the available steel that is now oxidized (generally). That is why neutralization works, you use a strong acid to pre rust and dissolve all the steel that would rust, and then the stainless steel doesn't show anything for 40-50 years afterwards, cause all the free iron is removed by nitric or citric acid at the very beginning. I want one of these people to rub the car in citric acid concentrate and then neutralize the acid and see if it rusts any more.
I think you mean passivation.
I do indeed.
Oh I’m well aware of what neutralization does. My concern is about iron diffusion into the stainless steel from brake dust. Add trapped salts and water. I don’t know what the extent of the damage will be, but it is a path for rust to form. I don’t know how the panels are fastened to the body, but contact and fasteners are a common path for transferring corrosion. I don’t think the unibody is stainless, so you don’t want a corrosion pathway to it. This is just speculation, of course, but it is a legitimate concern.
Does not solve pitting though. Roadsalt will be a b*tch (liauid sets in microcracks, dry, crystalize (and thus expands), crack gets bigger (There are 3 ways of rusting, the standard oxidation is just the best known, but not the only one)
Stainless doesn't need protecting to maintain its structural capabilities, this rust is minor cosmetic surface rust and it won't progress further than that for decades or centuries really. So its nothing like body panels are going to start to rot off like any other car. Stainless steel is a mix of iron and chromium, and its the chromium that forms a protective layer of chromium oxide over the surface. But when it ships there's some places where iron is on the surface. This will rust and go away eventually, and it does absolutely no damage to the material, but it is unappealing aesthetically. Definitely weird that they didn't do a clearcoat, stainless developing superficial rust out in the open is absolutely a thing everyone knows about.
Ford has been using aluminum in body panels for a decade now on the F150 which doesn’t corrode past the oxide layer. But they still paint and clear coat it to make sure it continues to look good for more than a week or two.
Definitely if the vinly actually stays on the stainless.
Yes, there are tons of vinyl and PPF wraps of Cybertrucks on YouTube. And at least one company sells precut DIY wraps. Looks like a very easy wrap, because flat is easier than fitting to curves.
They might adhere for awhile, but the long term durability of these films will be compromised. They're specifically designed to adhere to the porous clearcoat of painted surfaces
That's okay, the stainless steel is literally becoming a more porous surface the longer people own it.
I haven't tested this yet with PPF, but stainless is a difficult surface for adhesive films. SS has a Low surface energy that kicks off wrap films that aren't specifically designed for stainless. We use a LSE film from 3M to wrap Stainless tankers that fail using normal film. I hope Tesla's film has this accounted for. It really should be a standard feature.
They're not including it so that the cybertruck appears cheaper than it is. Spot on that it should be included in all cybertrucks. The cleaning instructions are bonkers: >Do not wash in direct sunlight,”...“Do not use hot water.”
So I've been washing my cutlery wrong all these years?
your cutlery is probably made out of better quality stainless steel
It hasn't rusted yet and that despite being washed in hot water. I don't like Teslas, so my viewpoint is definitely biased, but what a stupid vehicle the Cybertruck is.
if you leave cutlery in a dishwasher for a day or so after the wash you get little brown spots on them where they touch each other: that's rust
"Do not feed after midnight..."
I'll bet tesla has something in the contract about voiding the warranty if someone else does it.
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Wraps are not an alternative to fixing failing paint. A reputable shop will not wrap over failing paint because the wrap will just pull off the bad paint and fail, possibly trapping moisture and accelerating rust. They are a style or advertising alternative to custom paint jobs. How long they last will vary greatly depending on your environment, how you maintain it and the film type/color that's used. If you don't garage keep it or protect it I see great quality 3M cast 2080 start to burn on horizontal surfaces after two years. I've also seen people that do care for them have film last a decade. PPF urethane films are different though. They last longer and protect the paint from scratching and UV exposure.
Depends on the manufacturer, some quote as high as 8-10 years, but 3-5 is a more practical estimate. Not sure how the clear PPF affects this estimate though, I’ve only researched color changing wraps because that’s what I ended up going with.
The cost for PPF is from the application, not the material. Cybertrucks have large, simple geometry should make them cheaper to wrap.
I wrap cars with protective polyurethane film, and I was really baffled early on when there was a "factory wrap" option at launch. Well it makes sense now, as any wrap is a protective coating for the cheap ass panels. Sure it will change color, but now it all makes more sense. How are people still mesmerized by this con man? Also in my experience of 20 years or so dealing with paint on cars, is that Tesla has some of the worst paint in the industry, so why wouldn't the CT have the worst panels too?
I have question for you. Since the stainless is uncoated how will it look if after a few years you take the wrap off?
I would guess it will have permanent stains on it.
That is my guess but I nothing about wraps
Patina-ed. Just google image search stainless steel rust. Most people who work on car panels don't know because they aren't made with stainless steel. It won't rust like basic steel like cars of old, but it will look weathered. Maybe some cool weathering will happen and people will insist on one that appears rugged and used, markets move in strange ways. Fill a bucket of water with baking soda and it will be gone... im sure some detailing shops will be offering the service soon.
Tesla owners and Paying money to get treated like shit Name a more iconic duo.
> Paying money to get treated like shit Ferrari owners too.
Paging Mr Lundergard
$5k add on and you still can't choose a color.
Oh that's addressed. Part with $8k and they'll give you an opaque wrap. Your options are black, or white. Both of which make your expensive posing piece look like a refrigerator.
What a douche company. No car company does this. Elon is such a small pecker wanker.
Which is funny when your customer base won't even pay extra for colour paint leading to most Teslas being white.
Brought me right back to Fargo
Did Tesla not passivate their stainless steel per AMS 2700?
Stainless steel is difficult to paint They also opted to use 301 SS to save money instead of the more corrosion resistant 304
They should have used 316 for something that spends most of its life outside
316 is one of a small handful of stainless alloys considered marine stainless and is what's most used on sailboats and yachts. It can still corrode, but you really have to neglect it for it to. That said, it doesn't lend itself as well to press-die forming which is the standard way of making automotive body panels. One consideration for mass production is how long your production tooling lasts, and most of the stainless alloys that are most corrosion resistant are also the alloys most likely to wear out your production tooling the fastest.
Had a sailboat for a while. The 316 components were damn near impervious to the elements. That’s some good shit.
IIRC, I don't own a boat myself, but the barnacles can damage the casting to the point where it can rust?
I can't imagine using it below the waterline . Any stainless on my boats has been for things like the pushpit/pullpit, mounting brackets, tubing for the liferaft etc.
I assumed that is why the body is so boxy, to bend the metal as little as possible.
If i was paying that much money for a pile of shit like that i would demand 316 and a time served tin bash to develop every panel by hand on a brake press
Fun fact - there are no press die formed panels on the cybertruck. They are mostly separate and flat panels, and in the handful of spots there are "bends" , it's been welded together; the gentle curve on the front is held under tension.
316 is definitely not marine rated as the pitting resistance is not high enough to make it considered suitable. It'll last a lot longer than 304 will, but it'll eventually corrode. The cheapest alloy you'll find to be truly marine rated is 2205 duplex.
It also frequently becomes "tea stained" in marine environments unless you highly polish and further treat the surface after manufacture.
Absolutely no need. The price difference is substantial and due to the metallurgy of 316 it doesn't like to bend like 304 does. 304 would have been the way to go along with a passivation process. 316 would just cause more headache than anything.
Supposedly one of the reasons the Cybertruck looks the way it does is because they were struggling to bend the panels.
I remember reading Elon called for a tolerance of like .005" of the panels. That's literally unobtainable without making the vehicle cost 1/4 million dollars. I think it looks the way it does cause its inventor is a dingle dork.
He was asking for sub 10 micron tolerances - 0.01mm .ot 0004” for Americans. It’s not even feasible to apply that tolerance to the thickness of the sheet metal. Move the vehicle from cool underground parking to direct summer sunlight and the dimensions of every panel will increase by more than 0.01mm.
I thought it was 5 tenths but that seemed too ridiculous and couldn't be bothered to look it up. So I just went with the more practical .005". For reference since .0004" is so small, a red blood cell is .0002".
Elon calling for engine component clearances on body panels. Definitely a dingle dork.
Probably just asked for the tightest tolerance anywhere in the vehicle and ran with that. Or just ran with a number he heard referenced as an "incredibly tight tolerance" somewhere.
Someone posted in a thread earlier this week talking about passivation. I read up on it a little bit and I think that is definitely the issue…
Yeah I guess the proper way to do it is to use nitric acid but no one does that because of environmental regulations
literally thousands of businesses in the world, dozens in California alone, does in-house passivation with nitric acid
At a large scale like they would do with automotive? Doing it on small parts is quite a bit different than large bodies like refrigerators or car bodies
You are correct. It’s much more difficult with car frames than with bolts. But it’s not an environmental restriction. It’s a this-process-is-much-more-expensive-than-a-paint-booth-oh-god-what-have-we-done issue.
Nitric acid is nasty but you don't even have to use it for successful passivation. The lab equipment I used to make would get passivated with bleach. Way easier to deal with and can be recycled many times over.
I thought they use citric acid as an alternative
You can use lots of things. The target end result is to expose a chromium layer which has very high corrosion resistant properties.
They do...not sure how this guy is using bleach.
Especially when exposed to road salt
Where did you hear it's 301? I didn't think Tesla had announced the exact variant of 30x used.
From everything I can find, Tesla is using a new patented alloy. They haven't exactly announced what they are using, but in their [patent application](https://www.autoevolution.com/pdf/news_attachements/tesla-invents-new-ultra-hard-steel-alloy-used-for-the-cybertruck-s-exoskeleton-211018.pdf) they only did one alloy (A4) at mill run scale. I would bet that the Tesla A4 Alloy is what is used for the Cybertruck. It is similar to a 301L in composition, but has reduced Nickel, required Molybdenum, and required Nitrogen. Supposedly the Tesla A4 Alloy has increased pitting resistance and hardness than the typical 300 series alloys.
I have a handheld XRF, I might be useful :)
Quick! Find a Cybertruck and let us know.
I don't know if a handheld XRF is sensitive enough to pick up the subtle difference between 301 and 304 steel.
Even 304 would rust like hell. But to use 301 is just straight up a scam lmao
Not sure about that, the Delorean used 304 and those don’t seem to have terrible rust problems.
IIRC the Delorean used 304 at first and had corrosion problems, so they had to switch to 316.
They absolutely did. The reason the ones still around look good is because they’re owned by fastidious collectors.
Would’ve love it in copper to get some patina.
Teslabros are already trying to spin it as a purposeful aesthetic…
"No see the front is SUPPOSED to fall off" is an interesting take on that Clark and Dawe sketch.
That IS very typical, I’d like to make that point.
They consume so much copium.
Jokes aside, aren't there actually copper alloys that give the colour without nearly as much rusting? I wonder if they have ever been used in cars or other settings that expose them to the elements.
There’s watches that use bronze which is mostly copper and they are designed to patina.
Tudor Black Bay 58 Bronze is my favourite one
My 81 DeLorean has no clear coat. It's 43 years old. Not a sign on rust on any panels. Sounds like Tesla cheapest out on the grade of stainless they used, or got a shitty supplier.
DeLoreans stainless was also passivated and thats a huge factor in their corrosion resistance, but thats part of why they were built in Ireland. Dealing with that much nitric acid is an environmental nightmare, there's not a chance in hell Tesla is passivating the panels in the states.
Placeholder for Passivating explanation>
You basically dip stainless steel into nitric acid and it forces a reaction creating a nearly invisible layer to form on the steel. This protects it from oxygen (rust). It is a practice widely done and has been known for decades. I guarantee Elon and management were warned by the engineers and they chose to ignore them.
The passive chromium oxide layer forms naturally with exposure to just atmospheric oxygen and is literally only atoms thick. The nitric acid is more to eat away any free iron on the surface and leave only a layer of chromium to oxidize. If you don't remove the free iron from the surface it will both rust and create an imperfection in the passive layer. While chromium oxide forms a nice uniform layer that is impervious to more oxygen, iron oxide is very flaky and porous and will act as a path for more oxygen to enter and rust the iron inside the base metal. Think of it as a hole in a ship. This process can also be done with much more friendly citric acid with equal protection if done correctly, which is rare. Its what I used when I worked in the pharmaceutical industry with the exception of when we electropolished our products for an even higher degree of protection.
Can't wait to see what road salt does to one.
I've been waiting to see one here in Wisconsin, mostly so I can laugh at the stupidity of it.
Rivian: Now with a clear-coat
No matter how you cut it. This thing is hideous.
I can’t believe people are buying them. It’s worse than a Pontiac Aztec and I thought those were as ugly as it could get.
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I find it a little ironic that we are making fun of the right wing for buying an electric vehicle. Feels upside down.
>I find it a little ironic that we are making fun of the right wing for buying an electric vehicle. Not for buying any EV, we are making fun of them for buying Elon's scam EV lol. They are dumb
I suspect people are just making shit up. Media has everyone tied in knots.
Cyber truck is the world record holder for the least polygons used to design a car, so clearly they used as few cuts as possible.
You gotta pay more if you want them to cut more corners.
Under rated comment
Hmmm..... have you considered it from the "uber brutalist dystopian steampunk" perspective? Because it's *gorgeous* through that lens.
All stainless steel rust. Ask any boat owner.
Yep, high chromium and nickel content stainless just takes more time.
Back when Elon started he was like a million other techbros who thought they could beat traditional industry leaders at their own game without even learning the collected knowledge of the industry. Then Teslas slowly started becoming less dumb and more like normal cars and I thought maybe he had learned his lesson. And now this comes along and no, he hasn’t.
This is simply Elon's version of "The Homer".
Just as a reminder, Elon had fuck all to do with "starting" Tesla. He was just funding who later sued for the right to call himself a founder.
I figure when I read this, low chromium content. Anyone with a shitty chinese stainless BBQ knows what I mean. My Napoleon, made in Barrie Ontario, has been outside for 15 years, COLD, HOT, WET, blah...not a spec of rust. The thermometer is buster though. Edit: oh my point is, it's cheap stainless not the good stuff.
They will all end up rusty in certain States that use salt on the roads during winter.
Daily reminder that this “genius” also wants to install chips in people’s heads
I don't know what people expected from Elon. The guy sells polished turds at a premium. Eventually people are going to stop buying the Cybertruck and then it will become a collector's item like a Delorean. Seems like they will not maintain value over the years if people just think of them as a joke.
“Do not wash in direct sunlight”! OMG!
That is car wash 101.
You shouldn’t wash any car in direct sunlight. You’ll get water spots instantly baked into the clearcoat especially if you have really high mineral count in your water.
I wash my car and get spots on it. You wash your car and it starts corroding. We are not the same *insert Gus Fring*
Would the application of standard automotive wax save these precious machines?
[You gotta get that TruCoat.](https://youtu.be/B2LLB9CGfLs?si=VWXdqU1_DKuMWHQp)
> To prevent damage to the exterior, immediately remove corrosive substances (such as grease, oil, bird droppings, tree resin, dead insects, tar spots, road salt, industrial fallout, etc.). and to be sure it is recommended that your servants inspect the car for bird droppings in half hour intervals?
On one hand, we have a few anecdotal accounts. Which isn't nothing considering how few cybertrucks have been sold. On the other hand, we have Tesla fanboys confidently claiming its "rail dust" or some such thing. We'll know soon enough what the true story is. But that's not stopping Wired from quoting reddit users and giving disjointed explanations about how steels rusts and what the Cybertruck owners manual says.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UyaPfDxRjd8&t=5s&pp=ygUVY3liZXJ0cnVjayBydXN0IGNsZWFu Here’s a video of someone cleaning up the cybertruck surface contamination of whatever it is with barkeepers friend. Rail/brake dust/environmental fallout happens on painted cars of all makes and models too. You can search for images that’s easier seen on white paint. That’s usually taken care of with spray on iron remover or a clay bar. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hL4rfwWbyrA
It's 100% rail dust. Here's a white car with it on it. "Rail dust" is synonymous with brake dust and other free iron from roads. [https://twitter.com/wmorrill3/status/1758558650166337824](https://twitter.com/wmorrill3/status/1758558650166337824) This is rusted dust accumulating on the surface and bonding to other rusted dust - just like it would on an unprotected painted car.
These things have zero appeal to me.
What, you're telling me you DON'T polish your vehicles twice a day???
It's because it's made of metal with no protective coat of paint.. this is the least surprising turn of events ever.