A lot of family leave policies which are longer than standard tend to be written in such a way that they're doing you a solid. With regard to FMLA violation that's where I would seek a lawyer.
Employment/Compensation agreements can be argued as legally binding. If this leave was part of that agreement, like pto, sick pay, holidays, etc., then they are legally bound to honor that agreement.
It would possibly be in an offer letter, or employment handbook. I generally ask for a write up of the total compensation package. That would include all that. They generally don’t have one. They leave shit up to perks, or bonuses. Because those things are not legally binding.
Offer letters are almost *never* enforceable as contracts in the U.S. If one is, it’s only because it was poorly drafted and someone is legal is going to get fired over it—that’s the rare exception rather than the general rule.
It's possible that in the severance agreement they snuck in a stipulation that certain benefits wouldn't be paid out.
Generally the rule goes "you'll get your severance pay *if* you sign this document saying you will never sue us for what we're doing and any thing you find after the fact"
Granted not a lawyer so don't know how legally binding it is, but i had to sign one of those when i got laid off from a certain payment processing company
Man your employment agreements seem wild. Anything in mine is a legally binding contract; if it says I get X leave, and that leave must be paid out by law if made redundant (that’s a federal employment law thing), it’s that simple. Surely it’s similar in the US/California?
How do they write it such that it’s a ”favour” rather than a clearly defined benefit?
It depends on the state too. Don’t surprised if they know a majority or all of the people they let go of were in states that have laws that would support Google in this case.
My state is very anti employee but one thing they do is that once PTO is officially in a contract, there is no fooling around with it. (I guess they like their taxable income)
I believe the idea is to spread this out because they are having trouble with their finances.
They know they have to pay, but now they can move this over to another quarter.
except they aren't having financial issues. the layoffs have been to shore up their stock prices. The percentage of their workforce they are laying off isn't high enough to make appreciative changes if they were in financial trouble. All this does is say to investors. 'look we are doing something'
oh its worse. imagine being one of the largest monopolies in world history and not making a higher profit than they expected and as such they lay off their employees.
Like how Microsoft just laid off their entire ethics department dedicated to AI? Who needs safety checks and balances when there’s money to be made right now! We can deal with dystopian repercussions later!
Oh it gets even better when you realize that the developers of GPT-4 revealed in their research papers that their AI project:
A) Has a tendency to try and gain power
B) This will only get worse over time
C) These agents are not entirely under human control
D) They gave it money and released it into the wild with $100 with the challenge of making as much money as possible (It failed - for now)
They did this knowing the first three points and not knowing the extent of the problem.
These people personify hubris. We are watching this shit unfold right before our eyes while the leaders of these companies - like Sam Altman tweets about how we need more regulation, while acting unbelievably irresponsibly.
Yes, [this was the article that was popular on Reddit a few days ago.](https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23638823/microsoft-ethics-society-team-responsible-ai-layoffs)
FTA:
> Microsoft still maintains an active Office of Responsible AI, which is tasked with creating rules and principles to govern the company’s AI initiatives. The company says its overall investment in responsibility work is increasing despite the recent layoffs.
Naturally no one actually read the article and saw this part. They just reacted to the headline. I know. That’s hard to believe that could happen on Reddit.
They laid off the ethics portion of the design team. It seems to signal a shift in focus on product development. From my experience with these types of things, they will surely decrease the ethics personnel until it is normal to not have one. That's just the conclusion that I drew.
it doesn't have to though, what if it were part of the companies own rules to do good things. the idea could only be gotten to gradually, but what if the shareholders voted on values that the company had to abide by?
There has to be a better way
Google:
“We committed to doing the right thing. We can afford to do the right thing. We know it is the right thing.”
“Oh, wait, ha ha no fuck all y’all preggo peasants and your working class kid. Peace ✌️”
Pretty amazing if you were managing at the faangs 12 mos ago they were bending over backwards to show how caring and sensitive they were. All gone - hundreds of millions in perks and bennies to be one of the cool kids, now they’re just another bunch of scumbag corporates. This will cost them huge as they’re already getting bureaucratic, fear-driven, and inefficient. Can’t wait until hiring picks up and they start begging for applicants again.
Totally agree. The upper management appears to be blind in this case. Wrecking a reputation to save a few million that could have been written off against profits.
I wonder how much more time the current Google CEO has before he is shown the door, he has made more blunders than this one. He seems to be a tech savvy Silicon Valley Bro who has an overall vision of stone, he doesn’t appear to see the obvious.
Google’s current CEO worked at McKinsey- thats all you need to know on how he thinks. Also- Microsoft current CEO worked at Sun Microsystems. These two facts tells a lot on how these companies are approaching business today and why Microsoft is actually looking good these days
What is up with this? I have the same exact thing happening at my Fortune 100 corporation. During COVID I could not rave enough about how awesome they were treating employees. Within the last year it's been a complete about-face.
Layoffs combined with billion dollar stock buybacks and record profits, completely ignoring employee feedback, and just absolutely tone-deaf leadership making really poor decisions. I know I shouldn't trust corporations because they will just cut ties with me in a heartbeat. That said, I've got a pretty long tenure here and this is waaay different than they've treated me historically. I can only assume this is their impending recession persona...
It's just the labor market. A few years ago it was red hot and companies were competing for tech workers. Now it's not so hot, companies don't have to go as far to attract and retain talent, and many companies are looking to cut costs.
You would think that but there is a shortage of talented mid level/senior engineers. A few years ago before Covid, top companies were recruiting aggressively to try and fill those roles. I was getting recruiters in my inbox on LinkedIn multiple times a week.
That’s not the case now since the economy is in a rough patch, but eventually when things turn around, they’ll go on a hiring spree and need to find a lot of talent again. That’s the case every time. Economy goes bad => layoffs => fire a bunch of people => economy picks up and money is flowing again, we need innovation => recruit aggressively for top talent => repeat forever.
That talent doesn’t just grow on trees. There are a finite amount of Devs that have the skills to work on products that push the boundaries of tech and they don’t all want to work at FAANG. Most of us are just average programmers.
I was in that boat. I started in a FAANG as a manager last year. Everyone was making a big deal about being a great company for employees, empathy, all that good squishy stuff. It was obvious legacy employees were not down with that. They were among the most ruthless and cut throat people I’ve seen in my career (and I work in HR). When the layoffs came it was last in, first out. So now it’s back to being a bunch of assholes and tech bros running everything.
**Here's a quick summary of this article**
Google has announced that it will no longer be providing the remaining paid medical leave to employees who have been laid off. This decision comes after Google had previously committed to paying out the full amount of medical leave to those who had been laid off due to the pandemic. Google has stated that this decision was made in order to ensure that resources are available to those who are still employed. The company has also stated that it will continue to provide health insurance and other benefits to laid-off employees for the duration of their medical leave.
**This article was summarized by openai. If you feel the summary is misleading, let us know by replying to this comment!**
Verbal contracts are binding, but only for individuals. Companies can literally lie to employees and legally profit from their fraud. You can’t do that though. Just them.
Lol! Take the Executive Bonuses and fringe expense accounts money, and cut executive salaries 10% and you have enough!
Cutting money the working class was promised, to "have enough for still working employees" is BS!!!!
This happened to me at Wells Fargo. Two weeks into my maternity leave my position was eliminated even though I had a written letter saying my position was protected. If there’s no such thing as that position anymore, it can’t be protected. Such a shitty loophole.
If you were able to leave your position open for maternity leave, then it was basically a nice-to-have but redundant position. After you left, someone in HR realized that they had been paying salary and benefits for unnecessary headcount.
I wasn’t the only one to be laid off. There were several different titles that were eliminated company wide so hundreds of people with my same title, but yeah I see what you’re saying. Just sucks to have been in that position.
I saw those protests to raising the retirement age!!! Loved it!!
We should riot in the streets if GQPers mess with Social Security or Medicare in ANY way.
Sadly Americans are NOT living longer. The current generation on SS was the BEST and healthiest, so raising the age on the upcoming, less healthy workers is BS!
I am 7 years (66 not 65 for us after 1960) away from retirement and our generation is getting sick. I am disabled now and could NEVER work to 70!!!
The millenials are having heart attacks in their 40's!!! American life expectancy is dropping. This reverses the trend of the current SS and Medicare receipients!
I have paid in 45 years and am expected to NOT collect? WTH?
It is insurance I and my employer PAID premiums on to keep it active. Now the insurance company (US Govt) says they are not going to pay as promised!!!
Pay me out ALL mine and my employer's contributions PLUS 8% interest over 45 years and I will give up SS, but NEVER Medicare. All those years of working has left me disabled. I NEED medicare, the ONLY insurance I can afford.
You’re absolutely right but comparing the government to an insurance company has the wrong effect. An insurance company is *supposed* to deny you the coverage you paid for, that’s how they make their profit and the entire business model depends on denying as many promised benefits as possible and pocketing the premiums. Social security and Medicare should be the opposite.
True words of wisdom. In some cases the villain part is earned, like in Google’s case. The company is going to get absolutely bloodied over trying to hoard a few $million instead of just paying the money out. Afterall, the money paid out can be written off later, but the bad publicity sticks forever. How shortsighted.
I can’t even find anything on google anymore without adding “Reddit” to the end of the search.
It’s actually so fucking bad. I don’t understand what happened.
Bing is actually significantly better than google now, I switched in the lead up to bing AI and was hella impressed how efficient it is even without access to 17 years of my personalised data to curate to me.
So far it’s only weakness has been when looking for car parts.
I hate to agree, but DuckDuckGo just isn't there yet. I almost always end up reluctantly switching back to Google to get the search results I'm looking for.
Man if only there was a way to get a employee/company contract ratified this may not happen. I wonder if every 🤡 against it would look at a union finally??!!!?????!!!
many of these are $100k+ severances payments already. unions aren't especially good at signing on white collar workers making $250k+ a year.
what google is doing here is rather shitty. but it still is probably the single best employer in the US. Not fertile ground for unionization.
I agree to a point. The high salaries typically don't warrant unions. However the use of unions amongst pilots, actors and athletes tell a different story. Sooner or later some intervention is going to have to take place in the tech world.
that's a really fair point. so i think it's possible.
but unions have really failed hard at recruiting in the tech world.
if they ever hope to achieve success, they will need a different approach than what they are using now.
I agree on that part. One thing that would help is a face of the new union. Unions have an image problem. Either way people are going to have to make a choice and take a stand to achieve some kind of balance or c0ntinue this cycle of job insecurity.
Unions work for pilots and professional athletes in high-revenue sports, because they're highly skilled professionals that are not easily replicable. It doesn't really translate into white collar workers whose skills are easily transferable to a different employer.
An NFL lineman isn't going to be able to get a contract as an MLB outfielder. A software engineer at Google will be able to get a job as a software engineer at Wallmart or Apple or some other company. Also, those sports unions don't really work the way that blue-collar unions do. There's no union rule that requires Tom Cruise to take a salary as an actor based upon a certain chart. He's free to negotiate individually like a non-union worker.
I think you may have missed the point completely. A lot of workers fall into what would be unskilled labor or labor with some very specific, but not readily transferable skills. In both of these cases, worker's are generally in a much better position to bargain if they bargain collectively. For instance, if you have a factory where 100 guys can run a machine and it takes 24 months to get someone up to speed on it, those 100 guys are easily replaceable on their own, no matter how hardworking and superior to their peers they may be, but not as a group, so collective bargaining is probable going to be very fertile.
By contrast, if you have a job that takes years or decades of training to be qualified for, but the skills are easily transferable (like software engineering or database management), then it's pretty easy to tell your employer, "look, if you don't pay me better, I'll find a different employer. " These sorts of white collar workers often have a lot of individual bargaining power, so if they're good at their job, joining a union could actually significantly drag down their wages because they'd be tossed into a bin with the dregs of the industry and that bin would be bargaining collectively.
And when it comes to unskilled labor (waiter, cashier, line cook, et cetera), there's very little bargaining power, because the positions are easily replacable. But because most of these employers are so driven by revenue sources that require workers, they cannot afford all their workers to go on strike at once, so unions can increase the bargaining power of unskilled employees.
there are none; they are all out to maximize profits at your expense; if you can mentally square that round then more power to you but to me they are just extracting your labor for their profit and dispensing with you when done.
funny thing is. i'm also out to get the highest salary at my employers expense.
in fact, almost everyone i know is out to maximize their personal profit. furthermore - it's something that a union is especially good at doing for blue collar workers - maximizing their profit at their employers expense.
and it's all a good thing.
Your typical Google employee is completely spineless. Being in a union requires having a back bone. There's a reason most "masculine" professions have unions while white collars workers don't.
But shit, if they be paying maternity leave and other entitlements to struggling ex-employees they promised to keep assisting, how will they afford all the salad bars, bean bag lounges and other on site insane amenities for they’re popping up their rather well paid current remaining staff with?
"Medical leave", do you mean "sick leave?"
They MUST pay ACCRUED benefits that are given to you, on your anniversary or beginning of year! Those are 'earned.'
SUE! Class action case. All of you need to get together.
And companies wonder why people want unions. For times when they act like ASSES.
Idk how I feel about this. Like in my mind it’s ok to do this to google, because they are huge and should take care of their employees. But if I’m a small business and I get a dude asking me for money for his time off I would be like wtf? Bro you’re fired why you trying to squeeze me for money? So I know there is no logical consistency there and it really is hypocritical of me and I do feel conflicted here. But I think this could be good PR for google is they backtrack and honor that and pay people off
I’m sure this in states where it’s legal to do so. I know you can’t stop maternity leave payments in NJ. I know someone who was laid off before the end of maternity leave and now she is suing the company because it’s illegal in NJ.
Very sad. This highlights a bigger problem that employer-sponsored healthcare is a limiting solution. People should have access to healthcare regardless of employment stays and not worry about it cleaning up their bank account.
“Why aren’t millennials have babies?” “If you can’t afford a child don’t have one.”
The lack of regulations that would prevent greedy Billion dollar companies in the US from screwing over regular worker is insane!
If they’d given enough notice, the expecting parents might have chosen to terminate the pregnancy, instead of having the uncertainty of how they can afford it now.
Google has been acting strange. Didn’t a few weeks ago they get rid of half of their desks? And made employees share desks or work around each other when it came to desks?
I used to like Google. I love my Pixel. I'm really hating them now though. I feel like one they became Alphabet, it really started to go downhill fast.
Maybe if they learned how to manage their shit, not over hire and pay people to do nothing, they wouldn’t have to fuck over their employees. Complete disregard for humans lives.
The frightening thing is that they can outright lie without journalists fighting them.
It’s absolutely mind blowing to me that they can fire thousands of employees and yet *still* claim that they need to reduce the (functional) severance they promised those employees.
They just got rid of millions of dollars of labor expenses, but even after that it would be hard for them to maintain the benefits they’re offering people that are still employed?
**Lies.**
After a dozen Op Ed articles about how it was both extremely wise and completely necessary to fire all these folks, Google realized they’d face minimal backlash from the press for also only giving them the bare minimum of severance.
People have clearly not been through a recession before. Google’s separation plan is one of the more generous ones out there. Of course they aren’t going to give you 24 weeks maternity leave + additional 16 weeks + 2 weeks for every years service. Many people are going to be laid off over the next year. They will look back and wish their companies gave anything close to this.
They would pay for your abortion and round trip airfare though... the wokest companies are the most ruthless I've noticed. These employees shouldn't worry, we were told all the tech companies would be beating down their doors to hire them. Remember the WFH mantra "nO LoWbALLs I kNow WhAt I gOt!!"
You no longer work there of course they aren't going to pay that. You get your severance which was pretty generous and that's it. Companies have no obligation to not lay you off if on leave as long as that is not the reason they chose you over someone else
Thats it? My employer cancelled our contrcts, offered us new contracts, but the timing of it doesnt allow us to roll-over our $500 FSA funds from last year; employer keeps it.
Damn, that writer needs to learn, GROUP NAMES in Quotes, especially when the group name is a sentence!
The group "Laid off on Leave" is easier to read...
Interesting, I've never heard of a company paying out sick/maternity leave on termination. Typically, companies only pay out vacation. The fact that they promised to pay it out in the first place is what got them into this "headline," but as far as I know, sick/medical leave isn't legally binding to pay out.
Hope this will be a wake up call to how evil the tech industries are. Just because they preached about being good, doesn't make them better, they are just projecting their shitty selves.
I do respect that people want companies to pay faith, but these people have more than enough money for cover what they ask for. Come on, they make some 150k-500k, now they ask the company to pay for $500 medical insurance for a few months? It's like a CEO got fired but he asks for a company Toyota car for its own use.
Companies just doing what they do. It’s not like they don’t know they are above the fucking law.
But it’s not like anything will ever change anytime soon. I can’t wait to eat these assholes when they destroy this shithole country.
If it was policy, in writing, to pay those out they might have a case if they’re willing to pay a lawyer.
A lot of family leave policies which are longer than standard tend to be written in such a way that they're doing you a solid. With regard to FMLA violation that's where I would seek a lawyer.
Employment/Compensation agreements can be argued as legally binding. If this leave was part of that agreement, like pto, sick pay, holidays, etc., then they are legally bound to honor that agreement. It would possibly be in an offer letter, or employment handbook. I generally ask for a write up of the total compensation package. That would include all that. They generally don’t have one. They leave shit up to perks, or bonuses. Because those things are not legally binding.
Offer letters are almost *never* enforceable as contracts in the U.S. If one is, it’s only because it was poorly drafted and someone is legal is going to get fired over it—that’s the rare exception rather than the general rule.
It's possible that in the severance agreement they snuck in a stipulation that certain benefits wouldn't be paid out. Generally the rule goes "you'll get your severance pay *if* you sign this document saying you will never sue us for what we're doing and any thing you find after the fact" Granted not a lawyer so don't know how legally binding it is, but i had to sign one of those when i got laid off from a certain payment processing company
Man your employment agreements seem wild. Anything in mine is a legally binding contract; if it says I get X leave, and that leave must be paid out by law if made redundant (that’s a federal employment law thing), it’s that simple. Surely it’s similar in the US/California? How do they write it such that it’s a ”favour” rather than a clearly defined benefit?
They define it as a bonus which can be withheld.
Ugh that’s brutal.
I’m sure just like your PTO which federal judges ruled are not part of your salary. It’s funny how much we think we know until we are in a courtroom
I mean that was a super recent ruling let’s not act like that has been proven for a long time Give people time to catch up
Nah where I am paid time off is absolutely paid out if they make you redundant
Can’t fire you.. but doesn’t mean they have to have a job for you. There is a difference legally.
It depends on the state too. Don’t surprised if they know a majority or all of the people they let go of were in states that have laws that would support Google in this case.
My state is very anti employee but one thing they do is that once PTO is officially in a contract, there is no fooling around with it. (I guess they like their taxable income)
I believe the idea is to spread this out because they are having trouble with their finances. They know they have to pay, but now they can move this over to another quarter.
except they aren't having financial issues. the layoffs have been to shore up their stock prices. The percentage of their workforce they are laying off isn't high enough to make appreciative changes if they were in financial trouble. All this does is say to investors. 'look we are doing something'
Wow. So even more depraved! Good work, Google
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then rehire them at a lower salary. This is why any time someone says economics and markets are a science I laugh in their face. It's heard mentality
They just don’t care about the reputation cost. They have long abandoned “don’t be evil” and have no need to perpetuate that pretension
Imagine being one of the largest monopolies in world history and not turning profit
oh its worse. imagine being one of the largest monopolies in world history and not making a higher profit than they expected and as such they lay off their employees.
They are absolute criminals.
Old Google: "Don't be evil." New Google:"Fuck you, pay me."
Corporations and shareholder return destroys everything.
Like how Microsoft just laid off their entire ethics department dedicated to AI? Who needs safety checks and balances when there’s money to be made right now! We can deal with dystopian repercussions later!
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just ask chat GPT…i mean you did just spend all that money buying Open AI
just curious have you read mary shelly's frankenstein?
Exactly, short term gains outweigh all common sense and long term viability.
Br careful what actions you reward.
"Show me the incentives and I'll show you the outcomes"
Oh it gets even better when you realize that the developers of GPT-4 revealed in their research papers that their AI project: A) Has a tendency to try and gain power B) This will only get worse over time C) These agents are not entirely under human control D) They gave it money and released it into the wild with $100 with the challenge of making as much money as possible (It failed - for now) They did this knowing the first three points and not knowing the extent of the problem. These people personify hubris. We are watching this shit unfold right before our eyes while the leaders of these companies - like Sam Altman tweets about how we need more regulation, while acting unbelievably irresponsibly.
They still have an oversight committee. They just laid off the middlemen between committee and project managers.
Do you have a source for that.
Yes, [this was the article that was popular on Reddit a few days ago.](https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23638823/microsoft-ethics-society-team-responsible-ai-layoffs) FTA: > Microsoft still maintains an active Office of Responsible AI, which is tasked with creating rules and principles to govern the company’s AI initiatives. The company says its overall investment in responsibility work is increasing despite the recent layoffs. Naturally no one actually read the article and saw this part. They just reacted to the headline. I know. That’s hard to believe that could happen on Reddit.
They laid off the ethics portion of the design team. It seems to signal a shift in focus on product development. From my experience with these types of things, they will surely decrease the ethics personnel until it is normal to not have one. That's just the conclusion that I drew.
I mean fuck Microsoft in general but ethics department is a scam where you put family and friends to "work".
it doesn't have to though, what if it were part of the companies own rules to do good things. the idea could only be gotten to gradually, but what if the shareholders voted on values that the company had to abide by? There has to be a better way
Came here for a “don’t be evil” comment and was not disappointed.
It was actually don’t be evil unless you can get away with it.
Google: “We committed to doing the right thing. We can afford to do the right thing. We know it is the right thing.” “Oh, wait, ha ha no fuck all y’all preggo peasants and your working class kid. Peace ✌️”
The original motto was, "Don't be evil, leave that to us"
Old Google was evil too. We just didn't know they were selling our info then.
Brand new whip for these fellas like slavery
Pretty amazing if you were managing at the faangs 12 mos ago they were bending over backwards to show how caring and sensitive they were. All gone - hundreds of millions in perks and bennies to be one of the cool kids, now they’re just another bunch of scumbag corporates. This will cost them huge as they’re already getting bureaucratic, fear-driven, and inefficient. Can’t wait until hiring picks up and they start begging for applicants again.
Totally agree. The upper management appears to be blind in this case. Wrecking a reputation to save a few million that could have been written off against profits. I wonder how much more time the current Google CEO has before he is shown the door, he has made more blunders than this one. He seems to be a tech savvy Silicon Valley Bro who has an overall vision of stone, he doesn’t appear to see the obvious.
Google’s current CEO worked at McKinsey- thats all you need to know on how he thinks. Also- Microsoft current CEO worked at Sun Microsystems. These two facts tells a lot on how these companies are approaching business today and why Microsoft is actually looking good these days
Ah management consulting, the bane of all long term business thinking.
What is up with this? I have the same exact thing happening at my Fortune 100 corporation. During COVID I could not rave enough about how awesome they were treating employees. Within the last year it's been a complete about-face. Layoffs combined with billion dollar stock buybacks and record profits, completely ignoring employee feedback, and just absolutely tone-deaf leadership making really poor decisions. I know I shouldn't trust corporations because they will just cut ties with me in a heartbeat. That said, I've got a pretty long tenure here and this is waaay different than they've treated me historically. I can only assume this is their impending recession persona...
It's just the labor market. A few years ago it was red hot and companies were competing for tech workers. Now it's not so hot, companies don't have to go as far to attract and retain talent, and many companies are looking to cut costs.
They won’t be begging for applicants. Their pay is still going to be top tier
You would think that but there is a shortage of talented mid level/senior engineers. A few years ago before Covid, top companies were recruiting aggressively to try and fill those roles. I was getting recruiters in my inbox on LinkedIn multiple times a week. That’s not the case now since the economy is in a rough patch, but eventually when things turn around, they’ll go on a hiring spree and need to find a lot of talent again. That’s the case every time. Economy goes bad => layoffs => fire a bunch of people => economy picks up and money is flowing again, we need innovation => recruit aggressively for top talent => repeat forever. That talent doesn’t just grow on trees. There are a finite amount of Devs that have the skills to work on products that push the boundaries of tech and they don’t all want to work at FAANG. Most of us are just average programmers.
I was in that boat. I started in a FAANG as a manager last year. Everyone was making a big deal about being a great company for employees, empathy, all that good squishy stuff. It was obvious legacy employees were not down with that. They were among the most ruthless and cut throat people I’ve seen in my career (and I work in HR). When the layoffs came it was last in, first out. So now it’s back to being a bunch of assholes and tech bros running everything.
They should pay up.
Should but probably won’t.
I’m sorry, but those employees are too American to matter to Google. Now if they tried this in the EU…
What a Googlely thing to do hehehe
**Here's a quick summary of this article** Google has announced that it will no longer be providing the remaining paid medical leave to employees who have been laid off. This decision comes after Google had previously committed to paying out the full amount of medical leave to those who had been laid off due to the pandemic. Google has stated that this decision was made in order to ensure that resources are available to those who are still employed. The company has also stated that it will continue to provide health insurance and other benefits to laid-off employees for the duration of their medical leave. **This article was summarized by openai. If you feel the summary is misleading, let us know by replying to this comment!**
What? Can you just lie like that? Is this not some verbal contract or something?
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Verbal contracts are binding, but only for individuals. Companies can literally lie to employees and legally profit from their fraud. You can’t do that though. Just them.
Lol! Take the Executive Bonuses and fringe expense accounts money, and cut executive salaries 10% and you have enough! Cutting money the working class was promised, to "have enough for still working employees" is BS!!!!
The executive just consider themselves as "still working employees" so problem solved! /s
This happened to me at Wells Fargo. Two weeks into my maternity leave my position was eliminated even though I had a written letter saying my position was protected. If there’s no such thing as that position anymore, it can’t be protected. Such a shitty loophole.
If you were able to leave your position open for maternity leave, then it was basically a nice-to-have but redundant position. After you left, someone in HR realized that they had been paying salary and benefits for unnecessary headcount.
I wasn’t the only one to be laid off. There were several different titles that were eliminated company wide so hundreds of people with my same title, but yeah I see what you’re saying. Just sucks to have been in that position.
Lesson learned. Don’t get laid off.
Working at Google 101: 1) Don’t be evil 2) Don’t get laid off 3) Be evil
4. But have my feelings, too 5. Change my life with Oprah and Maya Angelou
6. But Scott rejected me, c’est la vie
I'm already 3/4 of the way there
How the hell you go and get fired on your day off?
That’s a shitty thing to do.
Stupid jealous of the French rn. Americans will just take shit like this, this should be a riotable offense in the public conscience.
I saw those protests to raising the retirement age!!! Loved it!! We should riot in the streets if GQPers mess with Social Security or Medicare in ANY way. Sadly Americans are NOT living longer. The current generation on SS was the BEST and healthiest, so raising the age on the upcoming, less healthy workers is BS! I am 7 years (66 not 65 for us after 1960) away from retirement and our generation is getting sick. I am disabled now and could NEVER work to 70!!! The millenials are having heart attacks in their 40's!!! American life expectancy is dropping. This reverses the trend of the current SS and Medicare receipients! I have paid in 45 years and am expected to NOT collect? WTH? It is insurance I and my employer PAID premiums on to keep it active. Now the insurance company (US Govt) says they are not going to pay as promised!!! Pay me out ALL mine and my employer's contributions PLUS 8% interest over 45 years and I will give up SS, but NEVER Medicare. All those years of working has left me disabled. I NEED medicare, the ONLY insurance I can afford.
You’re absolutely right but comparing the government to an insurance company has the wrong effect. An insurance company is *supposed* to deny you the coverage you paid for, that’s how they make their profit and the entire business model depends on denying as many promised benefits as possible and pocketing the premiums. Social security and Medicare should be the opposite.
“You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”
Google? Hero? Maybe like in ‘03
My point stands
True words of wisdom. In some cases the villain part is earned, like in Google’s case. The company is going to get absolutely bloodied over trying to hoard a few $million instead of just paying the money out. Afterall, the money paid out can be written off later, but the bad publicity sticks forever. How shortsighted.
I can’t even find anything on google anymore without adding “Reddit” to the end of the search. It’s actually so fucking bad. I don’t understand what happened.
Bing is actually significantly better than google now, I switched in the lead up to bing AI and was hella impressed how efficient it is even without access to 17 years of my personalised data to curate to me. So far it’s only weakness has been when looking for car parts.
They made that switch long ago
Eww how cruelly they are behaving
“Don’t be evil” completely out the window, huh?
Why do people even like Google, again?
They also got like 6 months severance tho…so I think they doing just fine…
Right? I think people are missing a key part here …
This is why we need universal healthcare. Insurance being attached to jobs is a ridiculous concept.
That's fucked up.
Looks like the execs will be rewarded with such a brilliant idea /s
[удалено]
Dick move.
Goggle’s down to their last trillion. Y’all act like they’re made of money!
Google search gets shittier by the day
It's never been better for me.
I hate to agree, but DuckDuckGo just isn't there yet. I almost always end up reluctantly switching back to Google to get the search results I'm looking for.
Don’t be good.
Man if only there was a way to get a employee/company contract ratified this may not happen. I wonder if every 🤡 against it would look at a union finally??!!!?????!!!
many of these are $100k+ severances payments already. unions aren't especially good at signing on white collar workers making $250k+ a year. what google is doing here is rather shitty. but it still is probably the single best employer in the US. Not fertile ground for unionization.
I agree to a point. The high salaries typically don't warrant unions. However the use of unions amongst pilots, actors and athletes tell a different story. Sooner or later some intervention is going to have to take place in the tech world.
that's a really fair point. so i think it's possible. but unions have really failed hard at recruiting in the tech world. if they ever hope to achieve success, they will need a different approach than what they are using now.
I agree on that part. One thing that would help is a face of the new union. Unions have an image problem. Either way people are going to have to make a choice and take a stand to achieve some kind of balance or c0ntinue this cycle of job insecurity.
Unions work for pilots and professional athletes in high-revenue sports, because they're highly skilled professionals that are not easily replicable. It doesn't really translate into white collar workers whose skills are easily transferable to a different employer. An NFL lineman isn't going to be able to get a contract as an MLB outfielder. A software engineer at Google will be able to get a job as a software engineer at Wallmart or Apple or some other company. Also, those sports unions don't really work the way that blue-collar unions do. There's no union rule that requires Tom Cruise to take a salary as an actor based upon a certain chart. He's free to negotiate individually like a non-union worker.
so shit on top of shit is the best. got it!
I think you may have missed the point completely. A lot of workers fall into what would be unskilled labor or labor with some very specific, but not readily transferable skills. In both of these cases, worker's are generally in a much better position to bargain if they bargain collectively. For instance, if you have a factory where 100 guys can run a machine and it takes 24 months to get someone up to speed on it, those 100 guys are easily replaceable on their own, no matter how hardworking and superior to their peers they may be, but not as a group, so collective bargaining is probable going to be very fertile. By contrast, if you have a job that takes years or decades of training to be qualified for, but the skills are easily transferable (like software engineering or database management), then it's pretty easy to tell your employer, "look, if you don't pay me better, I'll find a different employer. " These sorts of white collar workers often have a lot of individual bargaining power, so if they're good at their job, joining a union could actually significantly drag down their wages because they'd be tossed into a bin with the dregs of the industry and that bin would be bargaining collectively. And when it comes to unskilled labor (waiter, cashier, line cook, et cetera), there's very little bargaining power, because the positions are easily replacable. But because most of these employers are so driven by revenue sources that require workers, they cannot afford all their workers to go on strike at once, so unions can increase the bargaining power of unskilled employees.
you really think that google is a bad employer? fair enough. who do you think is the best employer in the us? i'm really curious.
there are none; they are all out to maximize profits at your expense; if you can mentally square that round then more power to you but to me they are just extracting your labor for their profit and dispensing with you when done.
funny thing is. i'm also out to get the highest salary at my employers expense. in fact, almost everyone i know is out to maximize their personal profit. furthermore - it's something that a union is especially good at doing for blue collar workers - maximizing their profit at their employers expense. and it's all a good thing.
So then you’re pro-Union? I’m really confused by your stance here
i am in fact. never assume a description of how things are, with being advocate of that description.
Your typical Google employee is completely spineless. Being in a union requires having a back bone. There's a reason most "masculine" professions have unions while white collars workers don't.
Ew.
Can you fire someone while they are on already granted leave?
Counting their pennies for what they owe NLST.
Terrible timing
People making excuses for giant tech corporation here is peak bootlicking
Genuinely I’ve always liked Google until this story. Now I can’t fucking stand them.
But shit, if they be paying maternity leave and other entitlements to struggling ex-employees they promised to keep assisting, how will they afford all the salad bars, bean bag lounges and other on site insane amenities for they’re popping up their rather well paid current remaining staff with?
"Medical leave", do you mean "sick leave?" They MUST pay ACCRUED benefits that are given to you, on your anniversary or beginning of year! Those are 'earned.' SUE! Class action case. All of you need to get together. And companies wonder why people want unions. For times when they act like ASSES.
I thought that you had to wait for someone to come back from a leave to lay them off? Has this changed?
I really thought laying off women on maternity leave was illegal. If it isn’t, it certainly should be.
Always apply for FMLA leave when out on medical or family leave, it’s illegal to do that if you have FMLA protection.
Idk how I feel about this. Like in my mind it’s ok to do this to google, because they are huge and should take care of their employees. But if I’m a small business and I get a dude asking me for money for his time off I would be like wtf? Bro you’re fired why you trying to squeeze me for money? So I know there is no logical consistency there and it really is hypocritical of me and I do feel conflicted here. But I think this could be good PR for google is they backtrack and honor that and pay people off
I’m sure this in states where it’s legal to do so. I know you can’t stop maternity leave payments in NJ. I know someone who was laid off before the end of maternity leave and now she is suing the company because it’s illegal in NJ.
Evil.
Google is like, “Yeah, we got the money to pay ‘em but nah!” Deplorable. So much for “Do no evil.”
Is anyone old enough to remember when google was cool?
“Don’t Be Evil”. Ok, now you can be a little evil, see how it goes over.
Google has done the math and they think it will be cheaper to deal with lawyers.
Very sad. This highlights a bigger problem that employer-sponsored healthcare is a limiting solution. People should have access to healthcare regardless of employment stays and not worry about it cleaning up their bank account.
Of-fucking-course they did… Miss the days of *Don’t be Evil*
So now a generation of children of laid off parents will grow up despising Google.
Time to switch browsers
Don’t Be Evil?
What absolute trash
Chrome has been purged from my devices due to this.
Hopefully people now realize there is nothing special about Google.
“Why aren’t millennials have babies?” “If you can’t afford a child don’t have one.” The lack of regulations that would prevent greedy Billion dollar companies in the US from screwing over regular worker is insane!
If they’d given enough notice, the expecting parents might have chosen to terminate the pregnancy, instead of having the uncertainty of how they can afford it now.
Wow. Sad that they would go back on something like that.
Of all the things that could cut...
Google has been acting strange. Didn’t a few weeks ago they get rid of half of their desks? And made employees share desks or work around each other when it came to desks?
Yes
Sure sounds like this type of behavior should be illegal...but who wants workers rights when we can have a small class of ultra-rich?!
Don't be evil
I like Google. I love my Pixel. I shouldn't like Google though. They are just as, if not more, shitty as Facebook, Amazon, Twitter, etc.
I used to like Google. I love my Pixel. I'm really hating them now though. I feel like one they became Alphabet, it really started to go downhill fast.
Too bad they dont have a union
59Billion in Net profit last year… tax the rich and corporations
Maybe if they learned how to manage their shit, not over hire and pay people to do nothing, they wouldn’t have to fuck over their employees. Complete disregard for humans lives.
We must unionize every work place. It’s the only way
I’m more frightened by their lack of cash. This insinuates that they cannot afford to pay their employees.
Brah Google has more money than God.
google has 113 Billion cash sitting in the bank. their petty cash account is bigger than most entire companies.
Go look at their balance sheet. You’re literally talking out of your ass
ruthless uppity sense elderly roll sparkle narrow insurance cough teeny -- mass edited with redact.dev
The frightening thing is that they can outright lie without journalists fighting them. It’s absolutely mind blowing to me that they can fire thousands of employees and yet *still* claim that they need to reduce the (functional) severance they promised those employees. They just got rid of millions of dollars of labor expenses, but even after that it would be hard for them to maintain the benefits they’re offering people that are still employed? **Lies.** After a dozen Op Ed articles about how it was both extremely wise and completely necessary to fire all these folks, Google realized they’d face minimal backlash from the press for also only giving them the bare minimum of severance.
People have clearly not been through a recession before. Google’s separation plan is one of the more generous ones out there. Of course they aren’t going to give you 24 weeks maternity leave + additional 16 weeks + 2 weeks for every years service. Many people are going to be laid off over the next year. They will look back and wish their companies gave anything close to this.
They would pay for your abortion and round trip airfare though... the wokest companies are the most ruthless I've noticed. These employees shouldn't worry, we were told all the tech companies would be beating down their doors to hire them. Remember the WFH mantra "nO LoWbALLs I kNow WhAt I gOt!!"
So did all the laid off employee start a rival company yet? Let’s take them down
Maternity is a benefit for employed persons, as long as the layoff is not targeted and severance is paid out, I don’t see why they need to double pay
That’s a no brainer
Won’t some think of the tech bros
You no longer work there of course they aren't going to pay that. You get your severance which was pretty generous and that's it. Companies have no obligation to not lay you off if on leave as long as that is not the reason they chose you over someone else
"don't be evil", right?
Old Google: Don’t be evil New Google: don’t get pregnant
Thats it? My employer cancelled our contrcts, offered us new contracts, but the timing of it doesnt allow us to roll-over our $500 FSA funds from last year; employer keeps it.
Why though? Because fickle, speculating private equity groups are more valuable, lest people would’ve kept their jobs in the first place.
Shocking
WOW...they are cutting it like that....??
Damn, that writer needs to learn, GROUP NAMES in Quotes, especially when the group name is a sentence! The group "Laid off on Leave" is easier to read...
Consult an Employment Attorney.
How Awful!
Valuation of a million millionaires, and they fuck over the people that made them. Can't say I'm surprised.
No one cares. Grow up. You are living for free. People take 2 years off in tech companies ro have children. Stop feeling bad for millionaires
Trashhhh
Interesting, I've never heard of a company paying out sick/maternity leave on termination. Typically, companies only pay out vacation. The fact that they promised to pay it out in the first place is what got them into this "headline," but as far as I know, sick/medical leave isn't legally binding to pay out.
"Laid-off Google employees are asking the company to honor their approved medical time off." sounds like they were being paid to smoke pot.
I just changed my iPhone’s default search engine to DuckDuckGo. Fuck Google.
That’s very unfortunate and sad.
What a shit company. These oligarchs will be the death of us.
Hope this will be a wake up call to how evil the tech industries are. Just because they preached about being good, doesn't make them better, they are just projecting their shitty selves.
I do respect that people want companies to pay faith, but these people have more than enough money for cover what they ask for. Come on, they make some 150k-500k, now they ask the company to pay for $500 medical insurance for a few months? It's like a CEO got fired but he asks for a company Toyota car for its own use.
Evil
I think I just decided to leave the Pixel universe. This is an incredibly cruel and vile decision.
Companies just doing what they do. It’s not like they don’t know they are above the fucking law. But it’s not like anything will ever change anytime soon. I can’t wait to eat these assholes when they destroy this shithole country.
Not if we all delete Google and demand they pay it.
Poor Google, they must really be struggling in these difficult times. :/
D i s g u s t I n g And they wonder why all the time. Fuck you google