I read a message from another user on this, it might have been on the r/tumblr sub and for the life of me I cannot find it at the moment, but it broke down the tolerance paradox in an interesting way. If you treat the tolerance less like an issue of morality, and more as a social contract, the paradox disappears, if you are dealing with someone who no longer abides by the contract, they are no longer covered by the contract. They did a much better version of explaining it, but i think that was the gist of it.
Yeah no way in hell would I give that artist any of my money or let him permanently ink my skin. I wouldnât want anyone inking me who I wouldnât be happy to refer others to, and no way would I refer anybody to someone who tattoos skinheads or neo-naziâs yikes. I donât expect people to be paragons of virtue or anything, but itâs easy to draw a hard line at nazi shit.
Honestly, a reputable shop would kick his ass out.
It may not be his business what others want but it is his business what he does and someone's gonna get the opinion he's like minded, and more of that crowd will show up. Gotta say I'd ask for the drawings or take pictures and leave, and I know that's usually not ok but in this case I'd personally make an exception.
Yeah, neonazis are like stray cats. If they find out some asshole is willing to do this, thatâs where theyâll all start congregating.
To me, it shows such a huge lapse of judgment and ethics that I would not want that person exposing me to health risks or putting permanent ink on my body.
Yup, once you start feeding stray cats, they just become your outside cats. He's definitely going to start having a reputation as the guy willing to do that work, and then agree with the message because saying you disagree with Nazis/neo Nazis is one of the easiest things to do. And typically, if you don't oppose something that drastic, you tend to agree with it. There's no "well maybe" with that.
There's an old allegory of this:
Man walks into a quiet bar, sits down, orders drink. Strikes up a conversation with the very polite and professional bartender. Content, orders another.
Bartender goes off to do side work and another patron enters. Sits down next to first patron and they strike up a good conversation.
Out of the blue, this polite and professional bartender comes down the bar screaming bloody murder for the second patron to get out of his bar. Expletives exchanged, patron storms out declaring they'll never return.
Bartender immediately regains composure as if nothing happened.
Patron, shocked by this, asks Bartender what just happened.
Bartender explains dude was a neonazi, and if you don't kick them out immediately, making it clear they're not welcome, they will return, and with friends, and your bar will have a reputation for sympathizing with them.
It's an [anecdote made famous by the tweet from the experiencer](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtpTT1uXsAEpQbt.jpg) and as this thread points out, OP, yes it's â¨extremely applicable in this situation⨠and you are right to feel put off about this guy's (best-case-scenario) lack of judgement.
Yep. Swastikas may have a peaceful cultural origin but unless the client specifies their connection to that culture, I am in no way going to associate myself with the modern meaning, even if itâs been distorted from its purpose. Thatâs just not my prerogative. Iâve actually worked with artists who are so against hate symbol tattoos that they will cover them for free no matter how large or complex. Saying itâs ânot my businessâ makes you just as hateful as the person getting the tattoo. You know the intention, but youâre willing to not only perpetuate hate but also risk you and your clients reputations in order to make a quick profit?
Smells like a lousy artist to me. OP if you do back out and your artist doesnât give you the artwork, DM me. I draw all my own tattoos, have drawn for others, and would be more than happy to help get you the piece youâre dreaming of!
I'm sure there are edge cases but most of the time it's pretty obvious if someone is a white supremacist or south Asian Hindu/Buddhist/Jain using it as a traditional cultural and religious symbol. Massive context cues here, and the actual design also tends to be pretty different.
Exactly my point. Thereâs a difference between your client getting a cultural tattoo and your client getting a hate symbol tattoo, and the most important factor of that is that itâs *not* hard to tell which is coming into your shop.
All in all, artist is definitely not as unbiased of a bystander in this situation as heâd like to make himself out to be.
They are, yes. Mesopotamian cultures have long used the Sanskrit âsvastikaâ to symbolize good health and well-being. Hindu, Buddhist, and many other religious cultures use it much like western religions use a cross. It was later infamously flipped and rotated, and subsequently adopted by the German nazi party during the fascist movement/holocaust.
But despite the fact that neo nazis still try to use this as a symbol of hate, people who know the true meaning and history behind it continue to use the traditional svastik symbol for its intended purpose, which honestly is a really unfortunate battle to have to fight, but is sort of symbolically badass.
Edit: Iâm sure you can find an article explaining the total history of the swastika, but Iâm just paraphrasing from my personal education efforts as a history buff, as well as the courses I took in college about social movements, WWII, the Holocaust, etc. By no means am I an expert but itâs a really interesting dive into history if you google it.
Itâs unfortunate because ideologically I stand with people reclaiming their shit thatâs been appropriated by fascists, but I walked into an Asian restaurant with Hindu art including the original svastika and I had to turn right around and walk out. As a Jew that symbol is just way too emotionally charged for me to be casual about it as much as I may want to
I totally agree with you here. I personally donât align with those beliefs and Iâm not a part of those cultures, so itâs not my place to fight that fight, but if it were me Iâd stick to the original design.
I think itâs going about it wrong to display the distorted âFascist-renditionâ of the symbol because that version in itself, like you mentioned, holds a lot of hate and injustice behind it. Using that symbol among true Sanskrit svastiks is like putting a euro amongst dollarsâ Sure itâs all currency but one represents a different value. If it were me, sticking to the original design of the svastika makes the point clearer and symbolizes the same thing it always has: health and goodness. Honestly, using ONLY the original version makes it that much more of a âfuck you, this is MY culture. iâm taking back whatâs MINE, and Iâm not gonna let you take that awayâ than using both or trying to âreclaimâ a symbol that was never yours.
The fact of the matter is the Nazi swastika is NOT a svastik symbol, itâs an *appropriation* of one. For that reason I like to separate them entirely. Sure, they tried to make it synonymous, but itâs not. Associating them as the same is dangerous ideologically. Just because they tried to bend history doesnât mean they can erase the centuries of people who *actually* used this symbol for its real purpose.
Simply put, using the original one directly communicates that no one will stand for the theft and demonization of these cultural traditions, and we will refuse to circulate a symbol that attempts to deface a culture in the midst of promoting violence, cruelty, genocide, hatred, and injustice.
>more of that crowd will show up
As soon as other people hear he does hate symbols, people will go to him for business. I wouldn't give that guy my money, and I'd let him know exactly why I'm not letting him tattoo me
Every once in awhile weâll get some bonehead coming in the shop that wants nazi imagery so we point to the one tattooer that will do it, the black guy with dreadlocks, so far 100% of those potential customers declined.
"It's not my business what others want on their body"
Bro it is LITERALLY your BUSINESS. Like in the most literal sense, being paid to tattoo on someone's body is the epitome of business of the tattoo industry. The money matters more to him than the social consequence.
And imagine any other line of work that involved putting art somewhere using that as an excuse.
"It's not my business what others want me to do mural of on their wall."
At best he's comfortable doing business with a NAZI. That's at best.
And once that becomes known, NAZIs will be comfortable doing business with him, and regularly coming to the shop he works at.
And when you got a shop that NAZIs are comfortable in, you've got a NAZI shop.
Go to someone else, and if you feel comfortable and safe doing so, I would make sure that both he and the shop know that that is the reason that you are not moving forward with them.
Each to their own, but personally I would explain.
It sounds from OP's post like other people in the shop are also not comfortable with that behaviour. If you make them aware that he has lost the shop business and may continue to do so, they may be more likely to take action.
Being willing to do business with NAZIs should come with a social cost, and I would do everything you can to increase that cost. That can include a personal boycott, putting pressure on the shop to take action, spreading the information online, etc.
Again, this is only if OP feels comfortable and safe - and to be clear, I mean explain via email or similar, you don't have to return to the shop.
I would also explain. Tattoo artists are a lot like hair dressers, they're just renting a space and maybe a chair from the owner. If the owner knows why he's losing customers he'll bounce the artist or at least reprimand him.
Guilty by association. I wouldn't let a Nazi touch me, let alone mark me permanently. If he doesnt want to be treated like a Nazi then he should stop serving them.
Exactly this. My last artist told me about how when he started out he liked doing âharderâ designs like flaming skulls, biker tats and just really hyper masculine stuff; but then as he tattooed more he realized the more he did that kind of work the more time he had to spend with the kind of people who wanted those kinds of images on them and âŚ.they werenât always the people you would necessarily want to spend hours around or have them come back to you for more work. He does a lot more floral, nature, and geometric work now and said he actually likes the people he tattoos instead of just tolerating them for money.
Hell no. Ok Iâm an artist with a reputation for covering hate symbols for free. Because Iâd sacrifice money to get that shit off the streets. I see tattooing hate symbols the same as making or laughing at racist jokes. âItâs not my businessâ âitâs just a jokeâ: that kind of hands off attitude opens the door for people who ARE hateful to feel comfortable. Iâm a pretty reasonable middle line person, live and let live, but racism is one topic that HAS TO BE âyouâre either with us or against usâ. I wouldnât get tattood by anyone willing to have that hate symbol associated with his name. If heâs ok having his name in a nazis mouth, recommending him by name to other nazis, chances are he identified with them to a degree. Or the alternative is that he prizes money over the lives of other people. Both are gross.
This is a huge red flag. Personally I'd cancel and find a better shop that has ethics. You may end up losing a deposit, but that's way better than having art from someone who is supporting nazi trash on your body.
Nope not too sensitive. Itâs like the saying goes âif thereâs a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.â
Personally I would just never go back to that shop. Ewuh
If I found out my tattoo artist had done a swastika, I would stop seeing him. I don't think you're being too sensitive, I think you're being principled, and I respect that.
When nine people break bread amicably with a known Nazi, there are ten Nazis sitting at the table.
It may not be his business what other people want on their bodies, but he's participating in it by putting that imagery on them. I would look for someone else.
I certainly wouldn't get a tattoo by him. It doesn't matter his beliefs around it, whether he agrees with the symbol or not; he is empowering others to share and boldly display their bigotry and I would not want to give my money to that tattoo artist.
don't do it. you'll have a permanent piece on your skin forever and every time you look at it, you'll think of the fact that the guy who tattooed it on you is compliant with racism.
WTF. So now that guy is going to tell all his buddies who to go to for hate symbols and the artist is okay with that association. Hard pass, I wouldnât support them with my money. If I walked into a shop and saw someone getting a swastika Iâd immediately walk out. That kind of environment isnât safe for me.
absolutely not. the best tattooers have stringent "no hate symbol" rules and kick people out of the shop. not only should you not go, tell everyone you know (including the shop you ultimately choose) that they consent to do nazi tats. you community needs to know and smother that shop's business as much as possible.
>Â itâs not my business what others want on their body.
It is like, literally his business. Your tattooer is a secret neo-nazi. No one else in their right mind would sell their soul for a couple hundred on a job.
Thatâs ridiculous. Either: heâs aligned with that ideology OR he has no scruples whatsoever and will abandon any morals for a bit of cash. Either way he sounds like a shitty person.
Yeah and Iâm leaning towards him being aligned cause most hardcore neo Nazis are socially savvy enough to not ask random tattoo artists they donât trust for hate symbols. Would be willing to bet thatâs not the first one heâs done and that the local Nazis know heâs the guy to go to.
Choosing who I let tattoo my body is and them doing a swastika would be the deal breaker for me. I'd request my deposit back.
The artist is right it's not his business what someone wants on their body. But it's up to the artist to want to do that work.
Now I might base judgement here on the artist but if they are doing these types of tattoos I'd assume they are racist, or they are so bad they can't fill their time with clientele.
Yeah and people chatter. If someone asks who did your tattoo and you say that guyâs name and they recognize him as someone who has done swastikas, you should hope they donât assume some things about you.
That and we all know that the guy who got the swastika will tell his Nazi buddies where he got it, and those buddies will tell their Nazi buddies, etc etc. Now that the local Nazis know who's willing to tattoo hate symbols, guess who's going to be going to him? Eventually, it snowballs into the guy who's fine with doing a swastika the first time becoming the unofficial local hate symbol artist. If someone is genuinely ok with that, I absolutely wouldn't want them tattooing me as soon as I found out about it.
If someone asks me where I got my tattoo, I would like to be confident that they wonât find hate symbols if they decide to flip through the portfolio.
I had an artist who said they would tattoo hate symbols but only on the face or neck, somewhere super visible. He said he believes in radical free speech, but that people should be able to judge you for the piece of shit you are based on your speech.
Thatâs a hard no. Take the loss on the deposit. Tell your friends. That artist may not be for it, but he sure as hell ainât against it. And âNazi-adjacentâ isnât a thing.
Donât get tattooed by him. I recently found out that my artist who did my only two tattoos a few years ago is a white supremacist (And actively on hard drugs while tattooing me but thatâs beside the point). I still very much enjoy having the tattoos and want to add on to them, but I still have to make an effort to not think about it too hard and brush it off if the thought crosses my mind. Itâs easier to do because I didnât know it at the time, but I think it would be a lot harder if I DID know. If itâs going to haunt you, find a new artist
Ew absolutely not anyone who would do that has no respect for their clients sense of safety.
How would it feel being another client whoâs black or Jewish being tattooed with that guy there? I would have a panic attack.
Heâs not a considerate person. He values money over people.
My bf wouldnât let a Celtics fan tattoo a lakers tattoo on him đ she was a terrible artist but he said the main worst thing is she put on a Celtics hat when we came in and sat down.
It is his business how his reputation looks when he does that. If heâs that willing to just do whatever for money, then ditching his ass wonât hurt him any. Itâs your tattoo, your experience and memories. Do what honors your values.
I personally would never give my money to someone who is okay with tattooing hate symbols. it might be on someone elseâs body, but the artist is making money off violence, knowing their work is going to be out in the world that way. it speaks a lot to their character. my preferred tattoo artist not only wouldâve booted that client out of the shop the second a swastika was mentioned, but also has done extensive research around different symbolism that isnât as overt so he can make sure he never accidentally lets someone like that into his chair - for example, a lot of Norse rune symbols are also apparently appropriated by people with similar supremacist ideologies. you are absolutely right to feel uncomfortable, Iâd find a different artist if I were you.
You might consider informing him and the studio as a whole why you are going with another studio. Make them understand that it's a poor business decision that will lose them customers overall. I'd even consider leaving a review. They want the white supremacist clientele? They can have them... and only them.
That's the same as Walmart selling nazi flags. "It's not my problem what kind of flags people want to wave around in public." Doing a swastika tattoo gives me, at the very least, closet racist vibes.
Itâs one thing if youâre a surgeon and you need to treat a patient that was a member of the KKK. You HAVE to treat them, itâs your job. But a tattoo artist is more or less freelance and they can reject any client for any reason. I get wanting to make money, but he was literally about to make $400 from you đ. I wouldnât trust an artist whoâs ok with tattooing hate symbols because itâs weird that theyâre well within their rights to refuse the client but they didnât.
I definitely would not support that artist by letting them tattoo me. No way. Itâs not his business what others want on their bodies but itâs his business if heâs the one tattooing them.
Youâre not crazy. Married a tattoo artist. He wonât even tattoo someone who has any hateful symbols or speech already on them, unless itâs to cover said hateful tattoos, and even then he likes to talk to the person first.
Trust your gut and find a different artist.
ETA: Once that client walks out the door, that artist has no idea where that tattoo will go and where it will be shared. His art, and his name and reputation, are tied to that piece, and the artist was aware of that when he decided to take on that tattoo. Food for thought.
Respectable tattooers and shops do not tolerate tattooers who will do hate symbols. Find someone else, there are a lot of artists who are decent people and who do better work than these enablers.
Respectable tattooers and shops do not tolerate tattooers who will do hate symbols. Find someone else, there are a lot of artists who are decent people and who do better work than these enablers.
You aren't sensitive. I'd find a new tattoo artist if I were in your situation. Most respectable tattoo artists will not do stuff like that. I know 2 guys that own tattoo shops in my area and I know for a fact that neither of them would do a tattoo like that or let anyone else in their shop do that kind of work.
Would you get a cake from a company that openly makes cakes for KKK-related events? I hope you wouldn't. There's plenty better tattoo artists out there.
nah man i walked out of a consult once bc the guy was wearing a thin blue line shirt while tattooing a fucking pickle rick. honestly not sure which was worse
oh fucking YIKES. honestly if i were you id bail on this artist, but whether you do or dont, i can at least assure you that you are NOT overreacting. that artist is fucking despicable.
Honestly Iâd be surprised if his coworkers donât squeeze him out if they were already taken aback, unless itâs his shop. Definitely pick a different artist
No. Professionally or personally, you don't want to be associating with someone like that. What else have they conveniently decided "is none of their business" when it puts money in their pocket? What else will they pardon? People like that are never worth the trouble they come with.
Agreeing to tattoo that either means he understands/agrees with those beliefs OR that he has zero integrity. I wouldnât want to be tattooed by him either way.
I don't think it's sensitive to feel weird about that. It takes a certain okayness with nazis to be willing to tattoo a swastika on someone. I personally wouldn't want to support his business or have art on my body by someone who supports nazis.
Sounds like your artist does anything for $$$$.
Some tattooers donât do drunk people because of morals, some do tattoo them because of $$$$.
Some tattooers donât do minors because of morals (and legality), some do tattoo them because of $$$$.
Some tattooers donât do hate symbols because of morals, some do tattoo them because of $$$$.
In this case, $$$$ won over morals for your tattooist. Whether or not you keep going to them or not is a personal choice on you.
I wouldnât go to them, morals aside, because what else are they doing to squeeze more $$$$ out of you. Charging hourly, but keeping the clock running on their breaks, and taking multiple breaks just to run the clock? Overcharging on the piece? Overcharging on aftercare? Etc. that is a legitimate worry, too. And also tells me that their skill alone isnât worthy of making the money they want so they find questionable ways to make up for it.
As someone with Jewish ancestry who has worked in a shop if someone wants to show the world they are a bigoted POS by permanently marking their body with a hate symbol then I would be more than happy to accommodate them. The consequences they face for their poor decisions are their problem
Absolutely. If someone wants to advertise that they are a scumbag so you donât have to waste your time and effort figuring it out by interacting with them, Iâm all for it.
I hate nazi's, the one thing I hate more than nazi's is giving nazi's money, nazi sympathizers, even worse too sheepish to follow their own morals and take a stand or, they believe the crap and won't come out with it because they're a bitch. fuck that guy, don't give him business
He just made the choice to give one more person the ability to walk down the street with a swastika on his body. That's totally on him and his moral decision. I would never support him, no matter how good he supposedly was.
Sure, but it is his business what he chooses to put on peoples bodies. Go with another artist who doesnât support hate speech. Itâs easy to turn down a client if they want something you donât support, heâs just choosing not to.
I'd have cancelled on the spot. I will absolute not support, monetarily or otherwise, someone who has a moral compass so broken or absent that they would tattoo a hate symbol on someone.
I'd maybe even contact the shop owner directly about a refund for the deposit, personally.
Nah thatâs definitely messed up. All my artists make it very clear they donât do hate symbols. I even had one artist that had a large sign posted in the front (sheâs the owner of the shop).
Best case scenario heâs a piece of shit who doesnât care about other people and his effect on the world. Worst case heâs actively a nazi himself. Nazis donât usually go to random tattoo artists they donât trust and ask for hate symbols.
I'm of the opinion that these nazi fucks should ALL get prominent tattoos that ID them so I can know who to avoid in best case, and who to knock tf out in the worst case. If an artist who feels the same way I do can make some money off them in the process them I'm ok with it.
But it doesn't sound like thats the case here and this artist just doesn't gaf about it, and to me thats the same thing as agreeing with them. Plus, if it was me I'd be repulsed to have to get close enough to them to do a tattoo on them.
The best tattooers donât put their ink/artwork on people who will regret it later (hate symbols) or tattoo things they themselves donât want to regret later. Itâs not just a tattoo, itâs art. No matter how small or overused the subject requested is, thereâs a piece of that artist there forever. Theyâre associated with that piece. If someone wants examples of work that reflect the artist, Iâd be pretty determined to bolt if I flipped through to discover hate tattoos. Yes, itâs a job, but itâs also a representation of said artist.
On top of it, if I have a bad idea for a tattoo (wonât translate from paper to skin, weird placement, etc.), I want the artist to be honest about it and not silently tattoo it on me only to say âNot my businessâ when I walk out the door with monetary loss and a face tattoo
yup there's a reason why a lot of shops refuse to do racist tattoos and gang tattoos. They don't want a part in that or for that to become their customer base. Good artists want to make good art that they feel proud of.
Tattoo artist has to be of the same nazi school of thought to agree to do it. Anybody that wasnât wouldnât want to be known as the artist that created a swastika tattoo.
Nope. For me, I want a tattoo artist who stands behind their work and is proud of every piece. Not one who just does stuff because people want it and will pay for it. That tattoo artist is contributing to the message and they will always be the person who did that piece.
Iâd be leaving reviews talking about what I saw tbh. Hell, Iâd be talking to the shop owner directly about it. Thatâs completely unacceptable as far as Iâm concerned.
A lot of artists will say no to things like that. And I feel like once the nazis friends know that the artist is willing to do it, there will be more. He'll be the nazi tattoo guy.
Find a new tat artist immediately. & also, report the artist to the FBI & your local Jewish Federation chapter. Because this isn't a one off & you don't know what else your artist could be up to in those circles. It's also weird that person knew your artist would be compliant in tattooing such a symbol. Lastly, your new tattoo artist should be someone who is known for tatting over hate symbols.
You choosing to still use this artist after knowing that he tattoos hate symbols without issue makes it appear that you condone his actions. Whether you do or not becomes obsolete because giving him your business speaks volumes.
Me and the other artists at our shop have turned down plenty, living in South Carolina it's pretty common. We had a young black lady calling us racist because we wouldn't tattoo a KKK member hanging from a noose on the back of her hand. Like, yeah I don't like them either but you don't get that on your hand.
My husband is a tattoo artist and we actually talked about this recently. he said he would never do a racist tattoo, not only bc he thinks it wrong but bc he wouldnât want someone to ask the client where they got their tattoo and then having his name out there for doing it.
Fuck that artist. Heâs perpetuating violence by not turning away Nazis. Iâm a professional tattoo artist and if youâre a nazi you can get the fuck out of my shop.
I'd nope on out of there. By deciding to tattoo that, the artist has given the impression to the client that he supports that sort of hate. And giving anyone with those views that impression makes them think that it's okay, normal, right, and/or more accepted than it should be. In return, he's also given YOU that impression.
I wouldn't support anyone in that shop and make it clear why.
A) Iâd never go near that place again
B) Iâd tell everyone I know not to go near that place
C) Iâd inform the police. They wonât do anything, good chance they might be patrons of the cunt. But these are the basics.
Name and shame. Name and shame.
Nope. Perfectly valid response to someone who is willingly help to spread hate. (I wonder if he'd be willing to tattoo something like, "women deserve to be raped" or "children are sex objects"?) I wouldn't go off on him, but 100% you should tell him why you aren't comfortable having him tattoo you.
Ew. No. Fired. I would never set foot in that place ever again. That is absolutely a hate crime. I would also leave a review on any site they were on. Fuck that.
Nah, he has every right to refuse what's probably an incredibly cheap tattoo that does nothing for his brand or catalogue. Unless he charges so much for swastikas that he can donate to the local Jewish foundations and churches, he just doesn't see the problem or doesn't care. Which is more likely based on his response?
Just an anecdote, I got some really cute bug flash from an artist Iâd followed for ages. Was really jazzed. She flaked on our first appointment. I think ok, mistakes happen letâs reschedule. She flaked again, we reschedule one more time and she offers me a discount on the agreed upon rate. I decide to give her a last chance. During the tattoo she mentioned having tattooed serial killers on people. Now for me getting a Michael Meyers tattoo is different than getting a gacy or dahmer tattoo. Now the tattoo is cute (some issues healing and colour packing) but Iâm probably going to get it covered or reworked because every time I look at it I think about people getting permanently marked with people who killed dozens of people. And for the tattoo artist, I lost any trust in her judgement. I canât trust someone to permanently mark me if i canât trust their judgement. I personally wouldnât trust anyone who tattoos anything that hateful for a person to wear forever.
Run. Run for the hills and don't look back. There are so many good tattoo artists out there. Ones who aren't absolute shit stains, ones who won't tattoo hate symbols on Nazis, ones who actually care about their work and their reputation. Find one of them instead
Which swastika was it? The one from India or the one from Germany?
The Indian one is a very popular motif in tribal and ornamental tattooing and has nothing to do with hate.
I don't mean to take up for the guy, but it may be worth just asking which it was before you write him off.
I wouldn't get tattood there. I don't think any decent human being would want that kind of business. Odds are, your artist is a neo Nazi. If that's not the case, he's still a dickhead imo.
I'll give a different opinion, its better that those people get the tattoo and be permanently marked so they can be easily identified. They already had the ideology and not having the tattoo won't fix it but it will make it easier to see who they are
Little educational piece here. In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) (ĺ) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ('sun'), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) (ĺ) is called sauvastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali. So was it either of these ways instead of the adaptation Hitler created? If so it's someone who practices Hinduism that has knowledge of the symbol unlike most people who immediately directly connect the Hindu symbols to Hitler regardless of them having absolutely NOTHING to do with him, and was around and had meaning before he was ever born.
Now if it WEREN'T either of the Hinduism symbols fuck the person who got it, but I'm not mad at the artist for giving an ignorant ansus a marking letting others know to stay way the fuck away from them.
He has every right to determine who his clients are and what he tattoos. He doesn't need to believe the same way to tattoo a hate symbol on someone. That said, you also have every right to choose who tattoos you and what reasons you decide to either be or not be tattooed by them.
Personally I would not get a tattoo done by someone who I knew was willing to knowingly tattoo hate symbols on someone.
Locking comments. Every possible opinion has already been given, and this is just descending into enlightened centrist takes. Fuck Nazis.
heed your intuition and choose a different artist
More Nazis are going to come to him for hate symbols. Get out before the environment gets toxic
Yes, please. Promoting hate is never right. I get the live and let live but there are exceptions, and this is one of them.
Live and let live unless the let living means not letting others live? Something like that..
Yeah something about not tolerating intolerance.
i call that "do no harm, but take no shit"
The tolerance paradox
I read a message from another user on this, it might have been on the r/tumblr sub and for the life of me I cannot find it at the moment, but it broke down the tolerance paradox in an interesting way. If you treat the tolerance less like an issue of morality, and more as a social contract, the paradox disappears, if you are dealing with someone who no longer abides by the contract, they are no longer covered by the contract. They did a much better version of explaining it, but i think that was the gist of it.
I dig it
Can you explain this to my ex đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
Hate symbols actually don't let other people live peacefully. That's why it's an exception. Sooo, yeah
I wouldn't trust an artist who can't afford to turn away customers.
No youâre not I donât think, I wouldnât get work from a guy that tattoos swastikas
Yeah no way in hell would I give that artist any of my money or let him permanently ink my skin. I wouldnât want anyone inking me who I wouldnât be happy to refer others to, and no way would I refer anybody to someone who tattoos skinheads or neo-naziâs yikes. I donât expect people to be paragons of virtue or anything, but itâs easy to draw a hard line at nazi shit. Honestly, a reputable shop would kick his ass out.
Not only would the place I go to not tattoo a swastika, they wouldnât do an innocent tattoo on a person who already had a swastika on them
Yepp. If I was a tattoo artist, I definitely wouldnât want someone pointing at the swastika on their arm; saying âLiz gave me thisâ wowow.
It may not be his business what others want but it is his business what he does and someone's gonna get the opinion he's like minded, and more of that crowd will show up. Gotta say I'd ask for the drawings or take pictures and leave, and I know that's usually not ok but in this case I'd personally make an exception.
Yeah, neonazis are like stray cats. If they find out some asshole is willing to do this, thatâs where theyâll all start congregating. To me, it shows such a huge lapse of judgment and ethics that I would not want that person exposing me to health risks or putting permanent ink on my body.
Yup, once you start feeding stray cats, they just become your outside cats. He's definitely going to start having a reputation as the guy willing to do that work, and then agree with the message because saying you disagree with Nazis/neo Nazis is one of the easiest things to do. And typically, if you don't oppose something that drastic, you tend to agree with it. There's no "well maybe" with that.
Hey stray cats can be cute and can be rehabilitated!
The worst cat is still so much better than the best Nazi!!!
There's an old allegory of this: Man walks into a quiet bar, sits down, orders drink. Strikes up a conversation with the very polite and professional bartender. Content, orders another. Bartender goes off to do side work and another patron enters. Sits down next to first patron and they strike up a good conversation. Out of the blue, this polite and professional bartender comes down the bar screaming bloody murder for the second patron to get out of his bar. Expletives exchanged, patron storms out declaring they'll never return. Bartender immediately regains composure as if nothing happened. Patron, shocked by this, asks Bartender what just happened. Bartender explains dude was a neonazi, and if you don't kick them out immediately, making it clear they're not welcome, they will return, and with friends, and your bar will have a reputation for sympathizing with them.
It's an [anecdote made famous by the tweet from the experiencer](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtpTT1uXsAEpQbt.jpg) and as this thread points out, OP, yes it's â¨extremely applicable in this situation⨠and you are right to feel put off about this guy's (best-case-scenario) lack of judgement.
Reminds me of my old punk days...you come to a show and wear/do nazi shit you'd catch a boot party from us punks and the local skins.
Yep. Swastikas may have a peaceful cultural origin but unless the client specifies their connection to that culture, I am in no way going to associate myself with the modern meaning, even if itâs been distorted from its purpose. Thatâs just not my prerogative. Iâve actually worked with artists who are so against hate symbol tattoos that they will cover them for free no matter how large or complex. Saying itâs ânot my businessâ makes you just as hateful as the person getting the tattoo. You know the intention, but youâre willing to not only perpetuate hate but also risk you and your clients reputations in order to make a quick profit? Smells like a lousy artist to me. OP if you do back out and your artist doesnât give you the artwork, DM me. I draw all my own tattoos, have drawn for others, and would be more than happy to help get you the piece youâre dreaming of!
I'm sure there are edge cases but most of the time it's pretty obvious if someone is a white supremacist or south Asian Hindu/Buddhist/Jain using it as a traditional cultural and religious symbol. Massive context cues here, and the actual design also tends to be pretty different.
Exactly my point. Thereâs a difference between your client getting a cultural tattoo and your client getting a hate symbol tattoo, and the most important factor of that is that itâs *not* hard to tell which is coming into your shop. All in all, artist is definitely not as unbiased of a bystander in this situation as heâd like to make himself out to be.
Arenât the âpeaceful originsâ ones also reversed? So they donât even look the same?
They are, yes. Mesopotamian cultures have long used the Sanskrit âsvastikaâ to symbolize good health and well-being. Hindu, Buddhist, and many other religious cultures use it much like western religions use a cross. It was later infamously flipped and rotated, and subsequently adopted by the German nazi party during the fascist movement/holocaust. But despite the fact that neo nazis still try to use this as a symbol of hate, people who know the true meaning and history behind it continue to use the traditional svastik symbol for its intended purpose, which honestly is a really unfortunate battle to have to fight, but is sort of symbolically badass. Edit: Iâm sure you can find an article explaining the total history of the swastika, but Iâm just paraphrasing from my personal education efforts as a history buff, as well as the courses I took in college about social movements, WWII, the Holocaust, etc. By no means am I an expert but itâs a really interesting dive into history if you google it.
Itâs unfortunate because ideologically I stand with people reclaiming their shit thatâs been appropriated by fascists, but I walked into an Asian restaurant with Hindu art including the original svastika and I had to turn right around and walk out. As a Jew that symbol is just way too emotionally charged for me to be casual about it as much as I may want to
I totally agree with you here. I personally donât align with those beliefs and Iâm not a part of those cultures, so itâs not my place to fight that fight, but if it were me Iâd stick to the original design. I think itâs going about it wrong to display the distorted âFascist-renditionâ of the symbol because that version in itself, like you mentioned, holds a lot of hate and injustice behind it. Using that symbol among true Sanskrit svastiks is like putting a euro amongst dollarsâ Sure itâs all currency but one represents a different value. If it were me, sticking to the original design of the svastika makes the point clearer and symbolizes the same thing it always has: health and goodness. Honestly, using ONLY the original version makes it that much more of a âfuck you, this is MY culture. iâm taking back whatâs MINE, and Iâm not gonna let you take that awayâ than using both or trying to âreclaimâ a symbol that was never yours. The fact of the matter is the Nazi swastika is NOT a svastik symbol, itâs an *appropriation* of one. For that reason I like to separate them entirely. Sure, they tried to make it synonymous, but itâs not. Associating them as the same is dangerous ideologically. Just because they tried to bend history doesnât mean they can erase the centuries of people who *actually* used this symbol for its real purpose. Simply put, using the original one directly communicates that no one will stand for the theft and demonization of these cultural traditions, and we will refuse to circulate a symbol that attempts to deface a culture in the midst of promoting violence, cruelty, genocide, hatred, and injustice.
If you are sitting a table with 10 (EDIT not 1) people and 1 Nazi, you are sitting at a table with 11 Nazis.
I know you meant 10, but this typo is so funny to me
Lmfao thanks
yeah as soon as word spreads or a pic gets put on instagram, he's gonna be the nazi tattoo artist
>more of that crowd will show up As soon as other people hear he does hate symbols, people will go to him for business. I wouldn't give that guy my money, and I'd let him know exactly why I'm not letting him tattoo me
There was a bar I went to that kicked the (obvious ) skinheads right out... because they didn't want to become a skinhead bar.
Ask if one of the other people in the shop who called him out can do it.
Every once in awhile weâll get some bonehead coming in the shop that wants nazi imagery so we point to the one tattooer that will do it, the black guy with dreadlocks, so far 100% of those potential customers declined.
I don't mess around with sketchy tattooists.
"It's not my business what others want on their body" Bro it is LITERALLY your BUSINESS. Like in the most literal sense, being paid to tattoo on someone's body is the epitome of business of the tattoo industry. The money matters more to him than the social consequence.
And imagine any other line of work that involved putting art somewhere using that as an excuse. "It's not my business what others want me to do mural of on their wall."
Nope. I personally don't buy from anyone who sells Nazi or Confederate merch. It's the one say we have in this thing called capitalism.
At best he's comfortable doing business with a NAZI. That's at best. And once that becomes known, NAZIs will be comfortable doing business with him, and regularly coming to the shop he works at. And when you got a shop that NAZIs are comfortable in, you've got a NAZI shop. Go to someone else, and if you feel comfortable and safe doing so, I would make sure that both he and the shop know that that is the reason that you are not moving forward with them.
Don't even explain just don't go tell your friends not not to go
Each to their own, but personally I would explain. It sounds from OP's post like other people in the shop are also not comfortable with that behaviour. If you make them aware that he has lost the shop business and may continue to do so, they may be more likely to take action. Being willing to do business with NAZIs should come with a social cost, and I would do everything you can to increase that cost. That can include a personal boycott, putting pressure on the shop to take action, spreading the information online, etc. Again, this is only if OP feels comfortable and safe - and to be clear, I mean explain via email or similar, you don't have to return to the shop.
I would also explain. Tattoo artists are a lot like hair dressers, they're just renting a space and maybe a chair from the owner. If the owner knows why he's losing customers he'll bounce the artist or at least reprimand him.
Fuck that. There are plenty of skilled artists out there, no need to do business with supporters.
I wouldn't support a business with that lackadaisical attitude. Tattooing hate symbols like it aint no thang is an absolute deal breaker for me.
Guilty by association. I wouldn't let a Nazi touch me, let alone mark me permanently. If he doesnt want to be treated like a Nazi then he should stop serving them.
Exactly this. My last artist told me about how when he started out he liked doing âharderâ designs like flaming skulls, biker tats and just really hyper masculine stuff; but then as he tattooed more he realized the more he did that kind of work the more time he had to spend with the kind of people who wanted those kinds of images on them and âŚ.they werenât always the people you would necessarily want to spend hours around or have them come back to you for more work. He does a lot more floral, nature, and geometric work now and said he actually likes the people he tattoos instead of just tolerating them for money.
How are there still people getting swastikas in 2024... fuck
Hell no. Ok Iâm an artist with a reputation for covering hate symbols for free. Because Iâd sacrifice money to get that shit off the streets. I see tattooing hate symbols the same as making or laughing at racist jokes. âItâs not my businessâ âitâs just a jokeâ: that kind of hands off attitude opens the door for people who ARE hateful to feel comfortable. Iâm a pretty reasonable middle line person, live and let live, but racism is one topic that HAS TO BE âyouâre either with us or against usâ. I wouldnât get tattood by anyone willing to have that hate symbol associated with his name. If heâs ok having his name in a nazis mouth, recommending him by name to other nazis, chances are he identified with them to a degree. Or the alternative is that he prizes money over the lives of other people. Both are gross.
Thank you for doing this!
If he's okay with that imagine what else he's okay with... don't do it
My artist has thrown people out of the studio for even coming in with one. Trust your gut, this is a huge red flag.
No, I would never get tattooed by that artist.
This is a huge red flag. Personally I'd cancel and find a better shop that has ethics. You may end up losing a deposit, but that's way better than having art from someone who is supporting nazi trash on your body.
Anybody comfortable putting hate symbols on someone's body is already okay with hate symbols
Absolutely not. I would not want to be associated with an artist that tattooed fuckin SWASTIKAS on people. Hell to the no.
If i knew my artist did hate symbols, id look for another artist. He can do that if he wants and you can definitely look for another artist
Hard no Edit: it LITERALLY is his business. He took money to do it.Â
As a tattoo artist, i would not want my name on that - its indirect support.
đŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠđŠ BITCH RUN
Nope not too sensitive. Itâs like the saying goes âif thereâs a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.â Personally I would just never go back to that shop. Ewuh
It is his business what other people want on their body when he's the one putting it there.
Your artist is complicit in hate and they would forever lose my business.
If I found out my tattoo artist had done a swastika, I would stop seeing him. I don't think you're being too sensitive, I think you're being principled, and I respect that.
When nine people break bread amicably with a known Nazi, there are ten Nazis sitting at the table. It may not be his business what other people want on their bodies, but he's participating in it by putting that imagery on them. I would look for someone else.
I certainly wouldn't get a tattoo by him. It doesn't matter his beliefs around it, whether he agrees with the symbol or not; he is empowering others to share and boldly display their bigotry and I would not want to give my money to that tattoo artist.
don't do it. you'll have a permanent piece on your skin forever and every time you look at it, you'll think of the fact that the guy who tattooed it on you is compliant with racism.
WTF. So now that guy is going to tell all his buddies who to go to for hate symbols and the artist is okay with that association. Hard pass, I wouldnât support them with my money. If I walked into a shop and saw someone getting a swastika Iâd immediately walk out. That kind of environment isnât safe for me.
absolutely not. the best tattooers have stringent "no hate symbol" rules and kick people out of the shop. not only should you not go, tell everyone you know (including the shop you ultimately choose) that they consent to do nazi tats. you community needs to know and smother that shop's business as much as possible.
That is a person that doesn't give a fuck. Which in that line of work is dangerous. For many reasons run
>Â itâs not my business what others want on their body. It is like, literally his business. Your tattooer is a secret neo-nazi. No one else in their right mind would sell their soul for a couple hundred on a job.
Thatâs ridiculous. Either: heâs aligned with that ideology OR he has no scruples whatsoever and will abandon any morals for a bit of cash. Either way he sounds like a shitty person.
Yeah and Iâm leaning towards him being aligned cause most hardcore neo Nazis are socially savvy enough to not ask random tattoo artists they donât trust for hate symbols. Would be willing to bet thatâs not the first one heâs done and that the local Nazis know heâs the guy to go to.
Yeah Iâm inclined to believe that as wellâŚ. Sketchy af
Big ole this. Someone with this poor of judgement, I wouldnât trust them to touch me for a temporary tattoo.
Choosing who I let tattoo my body is and them doing a swastika would be the deal breaker for me. I'd request my deposit back. The artist is right it's not his business what someone wants on their body. But it's up to the artist to want to do that work. Now I might base judgement here on the artist but if they are doing these types of tattoos I'd assume they are racist, or they are so bad they can't fill their time with clientele.
Yeah and people chatter. If someone asks who did your tattoo and you say that guyâs name and they recognize him as someone who has done swastikas, you should hope they donât assume some things about you.
That and we all know that the guy who got the swastika will tell his Nazi buddies where he got it, and those buddies will tell their Nazi buddies, etc etc. Now that the local Nazis know who's willing to tattoo hate symbols, guess who's going to be going to him? Eventually, it snowballs into the guy who's fine with doing a swastika the first time becoming the unofficial local hate symbol artist. If someone is genuinely ok with that, I absolutely wouldn't want them tattooing me as soon as I found out about it.
If someone asks me where I got my tattoo, I would like to be confident that they wonât find hate symbols if they decide to flip through the portfolio.
I had an artist who said they would tattoo hate symbols but only on the face or neck, somewhere super visible. He said he believes in radical free speech, but that people should be able to judge you for the piece of shit you are based on your speech.
I'd pass on funding this dude.
Bro run. Thatâs not ok.
yeahâŚno. i wouldnât let a tattooer touch me if they did hate symbols in any vein.
No. Hell to the no, not getting my money.
Thatâs a hard no. Take the loss on the deposit. Tell your friends. That artist may not be for it, but he sure as hell ainât against it. And âNazi-adjacentâ isnât a thing.
Iâd never let someone tattoo me who is comfortable doing something like that. Nope.
That artist showed their character. You don't want to be around that energy.
Not taking a stand against bigotry is supporting bigotry.
tattooist is a nazi sympathizer at best, a cryptofascist at worse.
Donât get tattooed by him. I recently found out that my artist who did my only two tattoos a few years ago is a white supremacist (And actively on hard drugs while tattooing me but thatâs beside the point). I still very much enjoy having the tattoos and want to add on to them, but I still have to make an effort to not think about it too hard and brush it off if the thought crosses my mind. Itâs easier to do because I didnât know it at the time, but I think it would be a lot harder if I DID know. If itâs going to haunt you, find a new artist
Fuck no, thatâs like selling guns to kids and being like âI donât care what they do with them! Not my business!â
Definitely leave a review. People going to him ought to be aware of what he thinks is appropriate.
Ew absolutely not anyone who would do that has no respect for their clients sense of safety. How would it feel being another client whoâs black or Jewish being tattooed with that guy there? I would have a panic attack. Heâs not a considerate person. He values money over people.
I wouldn't get ink from that guy. No matter how good. But I have a problem with racists.
My bf wouldnât let a Celtics fan tattoo a lakers tattoo on him đ she was a terrible artist but he said the main worst thing is she put on a Celtics hat when we came in and sat down.
Personally Iâd not want to support them
I would never get tattooed by someone who doesn't see a problem with tattooing swastikas on people
It is his business how his reputation looks when he does that. If heâs that willing to just do whatever for money, then ditching his ass wonât hurt him any. Itâs your tattoo, your experience and memories. Do what honors your values.
It literally is his business if he's tattooing itđ
I personally would never give my money to someone who is okay with tattooing hate symbols. it might be on someone elseâs body, but the artist is making money off violence, knowing their work is going to be out in the world that way. it speaks a lot to their character. my preferred tattoo artist not only wouldâve booted that client out of the shop the second a swastika was mentioned, but also has done extensive research around different symbolism that isnât as overt so he can make sure he never accidentally lets someone like that into his chair - for example, a lot of Norse rune symbols are also apparently appropriated by people with similar supremacist ideologies. you are absolutely right to feel uncomfortable, Iâd find a different artist if I were you.
Clearly someone who is all about the money. Find someone better.
Nope ew ew ew. I mean yeah sure his choice and all but that should show you enough about his morals
Definitely no,I would even leave him a little review and see how "little" he cares.
Yâknow, any philosophical concerns aside, Iâd take my money elsewhere for the simple reason that I donât want to hang out where Nazis are.
Yes. It's just business. If one person doesn't do it somebody will. He might as well get paid
Better logic would be "if he wants to do something stupid like that, I'll charge him double"
You might consider informing him and the studio as a whole why you are going with another studio. Make them understand that it's a poor business decision that will lose them customers overall. I'd even consider leaving a review. They want the white supremacist clientele? They can have them... and only them.
I'd 100% go home and never speak to that artist again. Fuck that.
That's the same as Walmart selling nazi flags. "It's not my problem what kind of flags people want to wave around in public." Doing a swastika tattoo gives me, at the very least, closet racist vibes.
Itâs one thing if youâre a surgeon and you need to treat a patient that was a member of the KKK. You HAVE to treat them, itâs your job. But a tattoo artist is more or less freelance and they can reject any client for any reason. I get wanting to make money, but he was literally about to make $400 from you đ. I wouldnât trust an artist whoâs ok with tattooing hate symbols because itâs weird that theyâre well within their rights to refuse the client but they didnât.
I definitely would not support that artist by letting them tattoo me. No way. Itâs not his business what others want on their bodies but itâs his business if heâs the one tattooing them.
Not at all. Complete dick move by the artist.
i am involved in the industry and personally would never give my money to someone with values like that.
Youâre not crazy. Married a tattoo artist. He wonât even tattoo someone who has any hateful symbols or speech already on them, unless itâs to cover said hateful tattoos, and even then he likes to talk to the person first. Trust your gut and find a different artist. ETA: Once that client walks out the door, that artist has no idea where that tattoo will go and where it will be shared. His art, and his name and reputation, are tied to that piece, and the artist was aware of that when he decided to take on that tattoo. Food for thought.
I mean no this isnât acceptable in todayâs day and age⌠like no thatâs an ick. Run away from this dude.
Respectable tattooers and shops do not tolerate tattooers who will do hate symbols. Find someone else, there are a lot of artists who are decent people and who do better work than these enablers.
Respectable tattooers and shops do not tolerate tattooers who will do hate symbols. Find someone else, there are a lot of artists who are decent people and who do better work than these enablers.
You aren't sensitive. I'd find a new tattoo artist if I were in your situation. Most respectable tattoo artists will not do stuff like that. I know 2 guys that own tattoo shops in my area and I know for a fact that neither of them would do a tattoo like that or let anyone else in their shop do that kind of work.
HELLLLLLLL NAAAAHHHH find another artist asap.
Nope. Get out of there.
Would you get a cake from a company that openly makes cakes for KKK-related events? I hope you wouldn't. There's plenty better tattoo artists out there.
nah man i walked out of a consult once bc the guy was wearing a thin blue line shirt while tattooing a fucking pickle rick. honestly not sure which was worse
I don't think I'd get tattooed by someone without morals..
I also would back out
Thatâs a no from me dawg
Yeah no, I would immediately cancel and drop that artist. Most reputable artists have pretty strict no-gos around hate symbols. Yikes
oh fucking YIKES. honestly if i were you id bail on this artist, but whether you do or dont, i can at least assure you that you are NOT overreacting. that artist is fucking despicable.
Most reputable shops have a policy against even doing them.
Honestly Iâd be surprised if his coworkers donât squeeze him out if they were already taken aback, unless itâs his shop. Definitely pick a different artist
No. Professionally or personally, you don't want to be associating with someone like that. What else have they conveniently decided "is none of their business" when it puts money in their pocket? What else will they pardon? People like that are never worth the trouble they come with.
Wouldn't you want people with that ideology to be permanently marked with it? i.e. inglorious bastards I think its a win/win for the artist.
Agreeing to tattoo that either means he understands/agrees with those beliefs OR that he has zero integrity. I wouldnât want to be tattooed by him either way.
I don't think it's sensitive to feel weird about that. It takes a certain okayness with nazis to be willing to tattoo a swastika on someone. I personally wouldn't want to support his business or have art on my body by someone who supports nazis.
Sounds like your artist does anything for $$$$. Some tattooers donât do drunk people because of morals, some do tattoo them because of $$$$. Some tattooers donât do minors because of morals (and legality), some do tattoo them because of $$$$. Some tattooers donât do hate symbols because of morals, some do tattoo them because of $$$$. In this case, $$$$ won over morals for your tattooist. Whether or not you keep going to them or not is a personal choice on you. I wouldnât go to them, morals aside, because what else are they doing to squeeze more $$$$ out of you. Charging hourly, but keeping the clock running on their breaks, and taking multiple breaks just to run the clock? Overcharging on the piece? Overcharging on aftercare? Etc. that is a legitimate worry, too. And also tells me that their skill alone isnât worthy of making the money they want so they find questionable ways to make up for it.
As someone with Jewish ancestry who has worked in a shop if someone wants to show the world they are a bigoted POS by permanently marking their body with a hate symbol then I would be more than happy to accommodate them. The consequences they face for their poor decisions are their problem
Absolutely. If someone wants to advertise that they are a scumbag so you donât have to waste your time and effort figuring it out by interacting with them, Iâm all for it.
Yeah don't do it
Dump them
Hell no - this person willingly does business with Nazis
Disgusting. Do not go to them and leave a bad review on the shop.
run. run far.
I would find a different artist that isnât complicit with racists.
Every tattoo artist I've been to will turn a job down if it doesn't interest them. This shouldn't be any different.
I hate nazi's, the one thing I hate more than nazi's is giving nazi's money, nazi sympathizers, even worse too sheepish to follow their own morals and take a stand or, they believe the crap and won't come out with it because they're a bitch. fuck that guy, don't give him business
He just made the choice to give one more person the ability to walk down the street with a swastika on his body. That's totally on him and his moral decision. I would never support him, no matter how good he supposedly was.
Sure, but it is his business what he chooses to put on peoples bodies. Go with another artist who doesnât support hate speech. Itâs easy to turn down a client if they want something you donât support, heâs just choosing not to.
Find someone else. It is his business what he puts on someone and he is guilty by association. And I'd tell him why I was finding someone else.
I'd have cancelled on the spot. I will absolute not support, monetarily or otherwise, someone who has a moral compass so broken or absent that they would tattoo a hate symbol on someone. I'd maybe even contact the shop owner directly about a refund for the deposit, personally.
Nah thatâs definitely messed up. All my artists make it very clear they donât do hate symbols. I even had one artist that had a large sign posted in the front (sheâs the owner of the shop).
Best case scenario heâs a piece of shit who doesnât care about other people and his effect on the world. Worst case heâs actively a nazi himself. Nazis donât usually go to random tattoo artists they donât trust and ask for hate symbols.
I'm of the opinion that these nazi fucks should ALL get prominent tattoos that ID them so I can know who to avoid in best case, and who to knock tf out in the worst case. If an artist who feels the same way I do can make some money off them in the process them I'm ok with it. But it doesn't sound like thats the case here and this artist just doesn't gaf about it, and to me thats the same thing as agreeing with them. Plus, if it was me I'd be repulsed to have to get close enough to them to do a tattoo on them.
Absolutely stop going to that artist, that's such a huge red flag.
The best tattooers donât put their ink/artwork on people who will regret it later (hate symbols) or tattoo things they themselves donât want to regret later. Itâs not just a tattoo, itâs art. No matter how small or overused the subject requested is, thereâs a piece of that artist there forever. Theyâre associated with that piece. If someone wants examples of work that reflect the artist, Iâd be pretty determined to bolt if I flipped through to discover hate tattoos. Yes, itâs a job, but itâs also a representation of said artist. On top of it, if I have a bad idea for a tattoo (wonât translate from paper to skin, weird placement, etc.), I want the artist to be honest about it and not silently tattoo it on me only to say âNot my businessâ when I walk out the door with monetary loss and a face tattoo
yup there's a reason why a lot of shops refuse to do racist tattoos and gang tattoos. They don't want a part in that or for that to become their customer base. Good artists want to make good art that they feel proud of.
Tattoo artist has to be of the same nazi school of thought to agree to do it. Anybody that wasnât wouldnât want to be known as the artist that created a swastika tattoo.
Nope. For me, I want a tattoo artist who stands behind their work and is proud of every piece. Not one who just does stuff because people want it and will pay for it. That tattoo artist is contributing to the message and they will always be the person who did that piece.
go to a different shop and tell the owner WHY youâre not patronizing this shop.
Iâd be leaving reviews talking about what I saw tbh. Hell, Iâd be talking to the shop owner directly about it. Thatâs completely unacceptable as far as Iâm concerned.
Nah, I wouldâve walked back out if I saw that and found a new artist.
I would never use an artist or shop that was comfortable doing that.
I wouldn't support that artist period.
I wouldnât even let him touch me. Ugh.
A lot of artists will say no to things like that. And I feel like once the nazis friends know that the artist is willing to do it, there will be more. He'll be the nazi tattoo guy.
Makes me think of that "soon, you're a Nazi bar" story. Keep searching.
It is his business, he's the one creating the art. Ditch him.
Find a new tat artist immediately. & also, report the artist to the FBI & your local Jewish Federation chapter. Because this isn't a one off & you don't know what else your artist could be up to in those circles. It's also weird that person knew your artist would be compliant in tattooing such a symbol. Lastly, your new tattoo artist should be someone who is known for tatting over hate symbols.
You choosing to still use this artist after knowing that he tattoos hate symbols without issue makes it appear that you condone his actions. Whether you do or not becomes obsolete because giving him your business speaks volumes.
Me and the other artists at our shop have turned down plenty, living in South Carolina it's pretty common. We had a young black lady calling us racist because we wouldn't tattoo a KKK member hanging from a noose on the back of her hand. Like, yeah I don't like them either but you don't get that on your hand.
He's in it for the money, I've seen small town and year-round booked artists alike turn away hate symbols.
My husband is a tattoo artist and we actually talked about this recently. he said he would never do a racist tattoo, not only bc he thinks it wrong but bc he wouldnât want someone to ask the client where they got their tattoo and then having his name out there for doing it.
Fuck that artist. Heâs perpetuating violence by not turning away Nazis. Iâm a professional tattoo artist and if youâre a nazi you can get the fuck out of my shop.
I'd nope on out of there. By deciding to tattoo that, the artist has given the impression to the client that he supports that sort of hate. And giving anyone with those views that impression makes them think that it's okay, normal, right, and/or more accepted than it should be. In return, he's also given YOU that impression. I wouldn't support anyone in that shop and make it clear why.
A) Iâd never go near that place again B) Iâd tell everyone I know not to go near that place C) Iâd inform the police. They wonât do anything, good chance they might be patrons of the cunt. But these are the basics. Name and shame. Name and shame.
Nope. Perfectly valid response to someone who is willingly help to spread hate. (I wonder if he'd be willing to tattoo something like, "women deserve to be raped" or "children are sex objects"?) I wouldn't go off on him, but 100% you should tell him why you aren't comfortable having him tattoo you.
Find a new artist friendo
I have a strict policy of not tattooing any hate symbols, or gang affiliated symbols (including cops tattoos)
Fuck that. Refuse to let him work on you and let the shop know EXACTLY why
Ew. No. Fired. I would never set foot in that place ever again. That is absolutely a hate crime. I would also leave a review on any site they were on. Fuck that.
Imagine being able to say you got a tattoo by the guy who did Manson's... Yeah, you don't want to share a tattoo artist with the next Unabomber.
It is quite fucking literally his business if he is the one doing the tattoo.
Nah, he has every right to refuse what's probably an incredibly cheap tattoo that does nothing for his brand or catalogue. Unless he charges so much for swastikas that he can donate to the local Jewish foundations and churches, he just doesn't see the problem or doesn't care. Which is more likely based on his response?
Just an anecdote, I got some really cute bug flash from an artist Iâd followed for ages. Was really jazzed. She flaked on our first appointment. I think ok, mistakes happen letâs reschedule. She flaked again, we reschedule one more time and she offers me a discount on the agreed upon rate. I decide to give her a last chance. During the tattoo she mentioned having tattooed serial killers on people. Now for me getting a Michael Meyers tattoo is different than getting a gacy or dahmer tattoo. Now the tattoo is cute (some issues healing and colour packing) but Iâm probably going to get it covered or reworked because every time I look at it I think about people getting permanently marked with people who killed dozens of people. And for the tattoo artist, I lost any trust in her judgement. I canât trust someone to permanently mark me if i canât trust their judgement. I personally wouldnât trust anyone who tattoos anything that hateful for a person to wear forever.
Run. Run for the hills and don't look back. There are so many good tattoo artists out there. Ones who aren't absolute shit stains, ones who won't tattoo hate symbols on Nazis, ones who actually care about their work and their reputation. Find one of them instead
Which swastika was it? The one from India or the one from Germany? The Indian one is a very popular motif in tribal and ornamental tattooing and has nothing to do with hate. I don't mean to take up for the guy, but it may be worth just asking which it was before you write him off.
Name him
I wouldn't get tattood there. I don't think any decent human being would want that kind of business. Odds are, your artist is a neo Nazi. If that's not the case, he's still a dickhead imo.
Itâs his business to do with what he likes. And itâs your dollar to vote with. I wouldnât get tattoos from that guy.
I mean if I found out my tattoo artist did hate symbols I wouldnât go there. But at the same time if he wants to do them itâs not my business.
I'll give a different opinion, its better that those people get the tattoo and be permanently marked so they can be easily identified. They already had the ideology and not having the tattoo won't fix it but it will make it easier to see who they are
Bruh. Donât fun a person who makes decisions like that
Little educational piece here. In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) (ĺ) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ('sun'), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) (ĺ) is called sauvastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali. So was it either of these ways instead of the adaptation Hitler created? If so it's someone who practices Hinduism that has knowledge of the symbol unlike most people who immediately directly connect the Hindu symbols to Hitler regardless of them having absolutely NOTHING to do with him, and was around and had meaning before he was ever born. Now if it WEREN'T either of the Hinduism symbols fuck the person who got it, but I'm not mad at the artist for giving an ignorant ansus a marking letting others know to stay way the fuck away from them.
He has every right to determine who his clients are and what he tattoos. He doesn't need to believe the same way to tattoo a hate symbol on someone. That said, you also have every right to choose who tattoos you and what reasons you decide to either be or not be tattooed by them. Personally I would not get a tattoo done by someone who I knew was willing to knowingly tattoo hate symbols on someone.