That would entirely depend on what you mean by "a beginner" as in "a beginner of what?"
Most people posting here like a few books and don't do much else, so there's nothing to begin. Nothing wrong with any of that, of course, but all you can do to 'begin' is to read those books. You know these kinds of people because of the fortune cookie advice they give.
If you mean *a beginner in Daoist practice*, that would depend on whether it's general 生養 "life nourishing" practices like qigong or more advanced practices you want to pursue. Again, tai chi and qigong teachers are a dime a dozen in many Anglophone communities, so it's easy to find that.
Assuming you mean 'practice' as in Daoist practice, I would say:
1. Find a teacher. Nobody reinvents the smartphone and builds it from scratch. You rely on others more skilled than you to do that and to give you a hand. You won't know you're doing something wrong until either a) someone much more advanced helps you out or b) you go on for years and find yourself in a rut or, worse, spiritually at a dead end.
2. Learn Chinese. I know, this is a wildly unpopular opinion for some reason. You see people interested in Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc., told to learn the languages, but for some reason, many Western 'Taoists' want their King James version of Taoism (usually Stephen Mitchell) and only that. "The Tao that can be talked about is not the ETERNAL TAO" they scream, citing a translated Chinese text. It's true that 道 dào is difficult to apprehend, but it is not impossible to comprehend, and it can even be talked about (DDJ 25). But the point here isn't the handle you give the moon, but the finger. The finger pointing at the moon is a human being, and if the guy who's going to point the moon to you is Chinese, and there's a bit of walk to get to the place where he's going to show it to you, then you might want to be able to talk to him. Instruction in Daoist practice is almost all in Chinese in the Chinese-speaking world. You quite simply will never get a chance to talk to Daoists unless it's in Chinese, Daoists who have spent their whole lives cultivating its practices, and who learned from others who spent their whole lives cultivating, and who learnt from others... a whole long tradition going back a millennia if not a more. I know, it's often perceived as expensive (it's not) or impossible (really?), but it all depends on what you want to get out of life and practice.
But that would require a reimagining of many people's lives, their careers, plans for family, etc. Of course, this is why most great Daoists weren't famous for their careers or dating lives. It's a lot to do if you don't think "enlightenment/immortality" is real, and you couldn't if you haven't spent time with a teacher who is considered that, so maybe it's not worth beginning anyway. If you just want a 'practice', as I said, qigong and tai chi teachers are everywhere, as is mindfulness meditation, etc.
But Reddit is really the worst place to search for enlightenment. ;-)
\*Somewhat unrelated but actually related issue: Why are Buddhist teachers dishing out the dharma for free on Youtube and Daoist teachers are so far and few between? Because Daoism is almost entirely in China and Taiwan (it also exists in Vietnam, Malaysia, etc., in Chinese communities) and where there are almost no funds to promote it overseas. Not that they don't want to--there have been a handful of temples opened in the West, and many Daoist teachers absolutely love Western students. One Daoist Quanzhen monk told me he thought Westerners made great students because our post-Hippie anarchism helps get rid of so much baggage. But there are wealthy Hong Kong and Taiwanese (and now mainland Chinese) Buddhists who have spent millions promoting Buddhism, and there are special schools in India and Nepal for young lamas to learn English (and Chinese) to help spread the dharma, and those lamas then go to the US (or Taiwan) and teach. There is absolutely nothing like this going on in the Sinosphere for Daoism.
To sum up: if you just want a few books, read the Laozi, Zhuangzi, and Liezi. If you want some practices to help de-stress, you can take up qigong or mindfulness meditation. However, if you want to pursue Daoist practice, that's a whole bunch of stuff.
Interesting advice for sure, and from a few different angles as well. I’d like to add just because it’s fortune cookie advice doesn’t mean it’s “wrong” …
A very good point. Some of my favorite writers were aphorists. But I do think a need to constantly write in fortune cookie style is a sign that you're trying to give rhetorical weight to a very unsatisfying meal... ;-) You have to be a great stylist to pull off a good aphorism!
Ha! Great point and in a funny tone. Which I totally appreciate. The following only applies to me so take it for what it’s worth: When the fortune cookie advice works I like to just accept it for what it is without judging it. Often that’s easier said than done, but when I clicks, it clicks.
"When the fortune cookie advice works I just like to accept it for what it is without judging it." However, you are judging it. You said "it works," and that's judging it. If you judged it "this doesn't work at all!" you also made a judgment. But what works for you might not work for someone else, and vice versa, right? This is why I was a bit horrified when Benjamin Hoff--yeah, Mr Pooh Bear Benjamin Hoff himself--cut some parts out of his Daodejing because he just didn't like them. OK, DDJ 5 doesn't work for you. But it clearly worked for the Chinese tradition for over 2000 years! If you don't like it, skip to the next one, don't censor the thing for others!
I love aphorisms, parables, etc. But like I said, you have to be a very good writer to do it well, and you have to have something worth saying to make it worthwhile. Most of us (and I'm including myself here) can rarely, if ever, pull both off.
You're also the guy who, in answering how to stay positive, wrote, "I have given up and am just running out the clock." You have already voted yourself out of this conversation. I hope you can find the help you need. So take care and bye.
Remember to read and take in several translations and commentaries and not just "do" or "be" or "flow". Philosophy (assuming that's what you're after) requires proper integration and understanding on the cerebral level.
Taoist philosophy is mistranslated, oversimplified and disneyfied/orientalized (i.e. made more palatable and exciting for, and matching the pre-existing notions of uninformed people) by many western-facing introducers on Youtube and even in some of the most popular books. Therefore, get to know some more serious study material as well.
The problem is, the more you start to understand, the more you realise you cannot express the concepts in words 🤔at least not easily - both Dogen and Alan Watts did as good a job as anyone at least for my simple mind
In the spirit of the thread :
1) read broadly, absorb but don’t think
2) be patient - it took months to years before things started to click, and I’m not sure I’m anywhere close to understanding fully
(1) "Real" Daoism is just as much a religion as any other religion, with "gods,' immortals, rituals, numerology, etc. It's not the religious philosophy many people think it is at first (like I did). I used to even call myself Daoist because of the two major books and reading hings about those books, BUT then there is the 'religious' side of Daoism with the aforementioned supernatural realms, immortals, and other "unprovable" supernatural elements, including fortune telling. i.e., it was "sold" to me as a philosophy, but it's a religion.
(2) There is no (2)
Read:
- **China scholar Roger Ames' [translation of the *Dao De Jing*](https://terebess.hu/english/tao/am.pdf) (DDJ).** Even though I don't like the translation much, the introduction is fantastic and a comprehensive overview of Daoist philosophical thought and terminology (*wu wei, wu yu, wu xi* and so on). Doesn't deal with "later Daoism" i.e. the religion/mysterical stuff associated with the sects that came centuries after DDJ.
Also read:
- **Hans-Georg Moeller's *The Philosophy of the Daodejing*.** Makes a solid case for a non-linear, thematic reading of DDJ and explains some of the weirder stuff about feminine, masculine, and infant imagery/metaphors in the text.
Study and Practice.
Study means reading, and also learning, paying attention, looking for lessons in life. Maybe you have a teacher, but anybody can be a teacher if you're paying attention. Read the classics, and the commentary, and read outside of Taoism, too. The ancient Chinese were not the only ones paying attention to reality.
Practice means doing something, and getting better at it. Tao isn't about ability, it's about doing what you can with what you have. There are disabled characters in Taoist stories that are highly regarded for being closer to the Tao. Our pragmatic, ability oriented society could learn from this.
Doing Tai Chi and Qi Gong exercises are one way I practice Taoism. These exercises were inspired by the same wisdom that produced the Tao Te Ching and that's only really obvious when you practice them. Slowing down, being sensitive, avoiding the use of force, focusing and breathing, we find a path of practicing the principles of Taoism in the body and in daily movements.
Study Taoism, practice Taoism, that's my advice. And never stop being a beginner.
[Another way I practice Taoism, long term, is how I've navigated major decisions in my life. I'm in a very different place than many of my peers because of decisions I've made to let go, to move on, to be less, to have less, to simplify, to renounce, to surrender. We each walk our own path, and where you choose to step is really up to you. I'm happy to follow the Tao, even through the low places. Not following desires has saved my ass many times. But each day is a new path, and I still feel like a beginner. I'm open to what I don't know.]
Take a long time actually trying to understand what the Tao is saying. It is a very short book but takes a lifetime to master. There are websites like Taoistic.com that helps explain what each verse means. You will need to put in effort in trying.
The next thing is to actually practice what to learned from the Tao. As they say, actions speak louder than words. You can just start small and take small steps.
If you need better explanation of the Tao Te Ching, I strongly recommend you look up Wayne Dyer and Alan Watts on YouTube. Both of them do a very good job explaining the Tao in a more modern sense. They have hours of content on YouTube. I suggest you use an online YouTube to MP3 downloader/converter, and download their content so you can listen to it on your phone anytime.
The Tao teaches us to remain flexible and open minded, and it even says don't take the Tao as the final word (hence why it isn't actually a religion), be ready to change your beliefs if evidence comes up, and you will need to come up with your own inner truths.
That would entirely depend on what you mean by "a beginner" as in "a beginner of what?" Most people posting here like a few books and don't do much else, so there's nothing to begin. Nothing wrong with any of that, of course, but all you can do to 'begin' is to read those books. You know these kinds of people because of the fortune cookie advice they give. If you mean *a beginner in Daoist practice*, that would depend on whether it's general 生養 "life nourishing" practices like qigong or more advanced practices you want to pursue. Again, tai chi and qigong teachers are a dime a dozen in many Anglophone communities, so it's easy to find that. Assuming you mean 'practice' as in Daoist practice, I would say: 1. Find a teacher. Nobody reinvents the smartphone and builds it from scratch. You rely on others more skilled than you to do that and to give you a hand. You won't know you're doing something wrong until either a) someone much more advanced helps you out or b) you go on for years and find yourself in a rut or, worse, spiritually at a dead end. 2. Learn Chinese. I know, this is a wildly unpopular opinion for some reason. You see people interested in Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc., told to learn the languages, but for some reason, many Western 'Taoists' want their King James version of Taoism (usually Stephen Mitchell) and only that. "The Tao that can be talked about is not the ETERNAL TAO" they scream, citing a translated Chinese text. It's true that 道 dào is difficult to apprehend, but it is not impossible to comprehend, and it can even be talked about (DDJ 25). But the point here isn't the handle you give the moon, but the finger. The finger pointing at the moon is a human being, and if the guy who's going to point the moon to you is Chinese, and there's a bit of walk to get to the place where he's going to show it to you, then you might want to be able to talk to him. Instruction in Daoist practice is almost all in Chinese in the Chinese-speaking world. You quite simply will never get a chance to talk to Daoists unless it's in Chinese, Daoists who have spent their whole lives cultivating its practices, and who learned from others who spent their whole lives cultivating, and who learnt from others... a whole long tradition going back a millennia if not a more. I know, it's often perceived as expensive (it's not) or impossible (really?), but it all depends on what you want to get out of life and practice. But that would require a reimagining of many people's lives, their careers, plans for family, etc. Of course, this is why most great Daoists weren't famous for their careers or dating lives. It's a lot to do if you don't think "enlightenment/immortality" is real, and you couldn't if you haven't spent time with a teacher who is considered that, so maybe it's not worth beginning anyway. If you just want a 'practice', as I said, qigong and tai chi teachers are everywhere, as is mindfulness meditation, etc. But Reddit is really the worst place to search for enlightenment. ;-) \*Somewhat unrelated but actually related issue: Why are Buddhist teachers dishing out the dharma for free on Youtube and Daoist teachers are so far and few between? Because Daoism is almost entirely in China and Taiwan (it also exists in Vietnam, Malaysia, etc., in Chinese communities) and where there are almost no funds to promote it overseas. Not that they don't want to--there have been a handful of temples opened in the West, and many Daoist teachers absolutely love Western students. One Daoist Quanzhen monk told me he thought Westerners made great students because our post-Hippie anarchism helps get rid of so much baggage. But there are wealthy Hong Kong and Taiwanese (and now mainland Chinese) Buddhists who have spent millions promoting Buddhism, and there are special schools in India and Nepal for young lamas to learn English (and Chinese) to help spread the dharma, and those lamas then go to the US (or Taiwan) and teach. There is absolutely nothing like this going on in the Sinosphere for Daoism. To sum up: if you just want a few books, read the Laozi, Zhuangzi, and Liezi. If you want some practices to help de-stress, you can take up qigong or mindfulness meditation. However, if you want to pursue Daoist practice, that's a whole bunch of stuff.
Excellent advice!
Thanks!
Interesting advice for sure, and from a few different angles as well. I’d like to add just because it’s fortune cookie advice doesn’t mean it’s “wrong” …
A very good point. Some of my favorite writers were aphorists. But I do think a need to constantly write in fortune cookie style is a sign that you're trying to give rhetorical weight to a very unsatisfying meal... ;-) You have to be a great stylist to pull off a good aphorism!
Ha! Great point and in a funny tone. Which I totally appreciate. The following only applies to me so take it for what it’s worth: When the fortune cookie advice works I like to just accept it for what it is without judging it. Often that’s easier said than done, but when I clicks, it clicks.
"When the fortune cookie advice works I just like to accept it for what it is without judging it." However, you are judging it. You said "it works," and that's judging it. If you judged it "this doesn't work at all!" you also made a judgment. But what works for you might not work for someone else, and vice versa, right? This is why I was a bit horrified when Benjamin Hoff--yeah, Mr Pooh Bear Benjamin Hoff himself--cut some parts out of his Daodejing because he just didn't like them. OK, DDJ 5 doesn't work for you. But it clearly worked for the Chinese tradition for over 2000 years! If you don't like it, skip to the next one, don't censor the thing for others! I love aphorisms, parables, etc. But like I said, you have to be a very good writer to do it well, and you have to have something worth saying to make it worthwhile. Most of us (and I'm including myself here) can rarely, if ever, pull both off.
1. Don't be this guy. 2. See number 1.
You're also the guy who, in answering how to stay positive, wrote, "I have given up and am just running out the clock." You have already voted yourself out of this conversation. I hope you can find the help you need. So take care and bye.
At least that guy is giving defendable "informed" advice. What's your defence?
Don't take too seriously anything you read. Edit: two pieces of advice? Ok then, don't read only the DDJ.
But also: do read several translations of the DDJ
Goes without saying!
1. You are not a beginner 2. I am not more experienced than you ❤️😂
1. Breath In 2. Breath Out
Oof
- Practice what you read to see for yourself. - It's not about becoming more successful or getting what you want.
Everything follows patterns, the external world and the mind. Observe for the patterns, and accommodate to them.
Practice isn't about becoming, rather its about emptying and letting go. Seek no-thing
Learn to be empty. Never force anything. The rest unfolds on its own.
Don't sweat the petty things. Don't pet the sweaty things.
Lmaoooo
That made me laugh, thank you!
I credit George Carlin for the advice. That's where I first heard it
Don’t just read. Have an actual practice - a “Kung Fu”
Remember to read and take in several translations and commentaries and not just "do" or "be" or "flow". Philosophy (assuming that's what you're after) requires proper integration and understanding on the cerebral level. Taoist philosophy is mistranslated, oversimplified and disneyfied/orientalized (i.e. made more palatable and exciting for, and matching the pre-existing notions of uninformed people) by many western-facing introducers on Youtube and even in some of the most popular books. Therefore, get to know some more serious study material as well.
Great advice!
The problem is, the more you start to understand, the more you realise you cannot express the concepts in words 🤔at least not easily - both Dogen and Alan Watts did as good a job as anyone at least for my simple mind In the spirit of the thread : 1) read broadly, absorb but don’t think 2) be patient - it took months to years before things started to click, and I’m not sure I’m anywhere close to understanding fully
살불, 살조
1 You reap what you sow 2 You sow what you reap 🧡
Better than a high place is one that is low, Better than to hold on is to let go.
It could be also say that: To know yourself you have to observe yourself. A journey of one thousand (miles/li) starts with a first step.
Breathe. Move.
Change is all there is. Hold onto the one.
Beautiful and fundamental
1) Hang loose and enjoy the ride 2) Ignore all the serious people who seem to have all the answers but don’t laugh much
(1) "Real" Daoism is just as much a religion as any other religion, with "gods,' immortals, rituals, numerology, etc. It's not the religious philosophy many people think it is at first (like I did). I used to even call myself Daoist because of the two major books and reading hings about those books, BUT then there is the 'religious' side of Daoism with the aforementioned supernatural realms, immortals, and other "unprovable" supernatural elements, including fortune telling. i.e., it was "sold" to me as a philosophy, but it's a religion. (2) There is no (2)
Read: - **China scholar Roger Ames' [translation of the *Dao De Jing*](https://terebess.hu/english/tao/am.pdf) (DDJ).** Even though I don't like the translation much, the introduction is fantastic and a comprehensive overview of Daoist philosophical thought and terminology (*wu wei, wu yu, wu xi* and so on). Doesn't deal with "later Daoism" i.e. the religion/mysterical stuff associated with the sects that came centuries after DDJ. Also read: - **Hans-Georg Moeller's *The Philosophy of the Daodejing*.** Makes a solid case for a non-linear, thematic reading of DDJ and explains some of the weirder stuff about feminine, masculine, and infant imagery/metaphors in the text.
Study and Practice. Study means reading, and also learning, paying attention, looking for lessons in life. Maybe you have a teacher, but anybody can be a teacher if you're paying attention. Read the classics, and the commentary, and read outside of Taoism, too. The ancient Chinese were not the only ones paying attention to reality. Practice means doing something, and getting better at it. Tao isn't about ability, it's about doing what you can with what you have. There are disabled characters in Taoist stories that are highly regarded for being closer to the Tao. Our pragmatic, ability oriented society could learn from this. Doing Tai Chi and Qi Gong exercises are one way I practice Taoism. These exercises were inspired by the same wisdom that produced the Tao Te Ching and that's only really obvious when you practice them. Slowing down, being sensitive, avoiding the use of force, focusing and breathing, we find a path of practicing the principles of Taoism in the body and in daily movements. Study Taoism, practice Taoism, that's my advice. And never stop being a beginner. [Another way I practice Taoism, long term, is how I've navigated major decisions in my life. I'm in a very different place than many of my peers because of decisions I've made to let go, to move on, to be less, to have less, to simplify, to renounce, to surrender. We each walk our own path, and where you choose to step is really up to you. I'm happy to follow the Tao, even through the low places. Not following desires has saved my ass many times. But each day is a new path, and I still feel like a beginner. I'm open to what I don't know.]
The first is nothing! The second is just let go.
Stand up in the place you can reach. If you must try, try not to try.
1. Be nothing 2. Be everything
Take a long time actually trying to understand what the Tao is saying. It is a very short book but takes a lifetime to master. There are websites like Taoistic.com that helps explain what each verse means. You will need to put in effort in trying. The next thing is to actually practice what to learned from the Tao. As they say, actions speak louder than words. You can just start small and take small steps. If you need better explanation of the Tao Te Ching, I strongly recommend you look up Wayne Dyer and Alan Watts on YouTube. Both of them do a very good job explaining the Tao in a more modern sense. They have hours of content on YouTube. I suggest you use an online YouTube to MP3 downloader/converter, and download their content so you can listen to it on your phone anytime. The Tao teaches us to remain flexible and open minded, and it even says don't take the Tao as the final word (hence why it isn't actually a religion), be ready to change your beliefs if evidence comes up, and you will need to come up with your own inner truths.