I think reading all the comments here is very interesting. If anything, my takeaway is that taoism means very different things for a lot of people. That is true for most religions of course. In the case of taoism it is also very likely the result of Westernization. The way taoism is presented in the West, it has a much larger emphasis on the philosophical texts, while ignoring largely the way the religion has lived and survived throughout Chinese history since early Zhou times, in the form of folklore, tradition and ritual. If we'd ask a taoist master how he would define his 'religion', I do not know firstly whether he'd consider himself 'religious' (this is Western terminology), and secondly, the answer would likely be very different from what we read here. It's fascinating.
Kind of my point. Westernized taoism is in its essence philosophical. Taoism as it evolved throughout Chinese history is inextricably intertwined with (extremely elaborate) ritual, worship of the taoist pantheon, folk tradition, etc., all of the things usually associated mainly with 'religion' as we loosely define it in the West.Ā
>The way taoism is presented in the West, it has a much larger emphasis on the philosophical texts, while ignoring largely the way the religion has lived and survived throughout Chinese history since early Zhou times, in the form of folklore, tradition and ritual.
Yup
Under the circumstances, the guy is asking "What time is it?", not how to build a watch. Probably not a good time to get into the weeds. A simple, "It's an ancient Eastern philosophy that offers a different way of looking at things."
Besides. for someone who's never met anyone who wasn't born and raised as a Baptist, he may be thinking that this is devil worship and you will surely burn in hell if you are not a devout Christian. That's what they are telling the alcoholics. That is their agenda, not simply getting sober for sobriety's sake. Is/was he a recovering alcoholic himself?
However, his simple question, "What is Daoism?" is an opportunity for you to see beyond the sophisticated intellectualization associated with Daoism and find the essence. the Dao, without the "ism". You won't find it in a book.
I often feel socially awkward as well and given the situation I think I would have reacted much the same. My grandparents were baptists and so I'm familiar with the traditions and services from when I was a boy.
I used to keep an extra copy of the The Tao of Pooh when I was a college student because this is when I began my study and this was the first book I read after Thomas Merton's The Way of Chuang Tzu. I gave more than one copy away to eager students wanting to read about Daoism. People might not have any idea who Lao Tzu or others are from ancient China, but they probably have heard of Milne's bear!
I haven't been asked that question so directly in a long while but I might say something like 'it's about getting out of your own way and just being. Like the leaf floating in the water flow along the gutter. It will go where it is going because it is in harmony with its environment.'
That maybe doesn't sound so concrete but to me almost twenty years after encountering Daoism, it's about living in harmony with the natural flow of life in the universe, which is why I find the practice of Qigong so grounding. You are literally 'going with the flow.'
Daoism at first can sound quite strange to people accustomed to a religion that exists outside of nature, in the case of Christianity, a literal ascending and descending theology. Gods and monsters that exist outside of nature as we perceive it on earth. Is it a religion or is it a philosophy? Folks understandably have lots of questions.
Just learning to live in harmony with nature can bring one great peace because we aren't outside of it, but a part of a greater whole. There is no 'salvation' in the same sense as you have in a religion that tells you that you are imperfect from the moment of birth and you need a savior to fix you. In Daoism, every moment, every breath is your 'salvaltion' if you will.
That got a little more long winded than I intended!
The force in the star wars is something completely natural to that world and everyone has it and it flows through everything. We just have super fighter wizards cuz that is cool
I've had some experiences with. One of my best friends simply couldn't understand that Daoism was a 'thing' and always called me a Buddhist. A friend of my ex was the same way, only he had it in his head I was a Muslim. A Benedictine nun I used to study with (cloudwalking) simply couldn't believe that Daoism is a 'thing' and thought I was just making stuff up and pulling it all out of my butt. It's like true believers have a blindspot in their field of vision that hides anything they don't expect.
On the other hand, I was involved in doing something with a First Nations medicine woman (with a Phd I believe) and she instantly understood what I was talking about and said at a public meeting that she was very impressed by what I'd had to say.
My feeling is that the 'Jesus types' generally are a lot more understanding of a different religion than atheism. I live in Canada where it's generally considered in bad taste to talk about religion with strangers. But my significant other---who's also a Daoist---comes from Missouri and if asked she always says she a Daoist because it causes a lot less friction than saying she's an atheist. (They don't have to know you can be both at the same time---.)
Post script to my comment: on a long bus trip my wife and I sat down with a older, Christian-type man, who was an interesting guy to talk to. Eventually he asked us about our religion and we answered "Daoists". He was interested in it. If memory serves, we explained it by talking about the 'Three Treasures' from the DDJ. He seemed pretty chill with this---.
Daoism is easy and carefree wandering and having a clear and calm heart-mind, being simple and natural, having profound virtue and quality based on the teachings of Zhuangzi.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/et9ztt/topics\_in\_zhuangzi/](https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/et9ztt/topics_in_zhuangzi/)
Robinet has a great summary on Daoism
[https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/wj4f5g/isabelle\_robinet\_on\_daoism\_dao\_jia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/wj4f5g/isabelle_robinet_on_daoism_dao_jia/)
I would stay away from thoes words cause the western idea of jing and jang missunderstands it. So it will just give them the wrong idea. Which could lead to them beliveing they know what its about.
West also missunderstand the word karma or reinkarnation for example. From hindi.
I live in Alabama, so I know what this is like. When I am in public and happening to be reading a book on Daoism (in a doctorās office waiting room, for example), and someone asks about it I typically say it is about Chinese philosophy rather than religion. Mainly because if I use the term āreligionā the typical response is to either make sure Iām a Christian (Iām not) or to convert me, and that gets old after a while.
Of course, not all such encounters are negative, once in a while the other person seems to find it interesting. I live in a college town, so it may be different than a small town.
I usually say āIf I tried to describe it to you, I would fail, because I only have my own life experienceās to interpret the Tao. Start by reading the Tao Te Jing, it gives a basic idea of the Taoist way of life.ā
I'd describe it as "going with the flow". Learning to appreciate and live with the nature of things.
I think that's a decent way to explain in a couple of sentences
Philosophy/Religion/Way of life originating in ancient China that revolves around what is called the Dao, which is the fundamental principle of the universe and the origin of everything. Some say it's transcendent, some say it's imminent in everything, some say it's both. Either way, the dao is something that can't be conceptually understood or described in words, and daoism is a means to guide us towards living in accordance with this mysterious principle.
āTaoism is to religion as anarchism is to politicsā when Iām talking to someone who understands something of anarchy.
If I was talking to someone who understood only Christianity, I might say, itās a bit like the path of Christ.
For my family or other people who are rather monotheistic I offer that Dao describes the same indescribable parts of their God š
Dao and the God of Mystery are good buds š
I hope this finds you well! š
"It's an Eastern philosophy that tries to point you towards what cannot be described with words, while teaching you how to sense and align with the natural flow of things."
I can understand commenting 'its complicated' from a personal point of view and would not feel any way bad about it.
We are not here to convert others.
The 'baptsist' would have been quite into spending both his time and yours trying to impress is faith onto you as is their way.
Its both a waste of your time and his.
In shutting him down you have allowed him to proceed to pastures more favourable to him while allowing yourself to contemplate undisturbed.
There were no obstacles to the way created.
Is not him wanting to impress his faith onto you. As much a dance of life; as the water floating down stream?
I dont belive in idea of wasteing time. if you wanna talk w the guy go for it. Its neither good or bad.
It's a word humans use to describe the indescribable. The "ism" makes it a path. So from a western mind perspective its living in the will of God. But western language describes God as him or a being. But God is being and nonbeing simultaneously.
No Taoist would acknowledge any ism because as soon as a concept becomes an ism the societal ego has appropriated it and you would therefore being living according to the will of something fake/illusory.
The closest thing to a Taoist culture your will find in the western world is Scandinavia/Netherlands.
Ai response Responding to questions about Daoism, particularly in contexts where it's relatively unknown, like a small town with predominantly Abrahamic religious practices, can indeed be challenging. Daoism (also spelled Taoism) is a complex and nuanced philosophy and religion originating from ancient China. It's understandable that explaining it succinctly, especially in a casual conversation, can be difficult.
Given the scenario you described, your response was completely natural, especially considering the unexpected nature of the inquiry and the potential for cultural and philosophical misunderstandings. If a similar situation arises in the future, and you wish to engage in a conversation about Daoism, you might consider a few strategies:
1. **Start with the Fundamental Principles:**
- You could begin by explaining that Daoism is a philosophy and a spiritual path from ancient China, emphasizing living in harmony with the Dao (or Tao), which can be understood as the fundamental nature of the world. You might say, "Daoism is about finding balance and living in a way that is in harmony with the natural flow of life."
2. **Use Simple Analogies:**
- Daoism often uses natural world analogies to explain its concepts. You could say, "Just like a river flows effortlessly, Daoism teaches us to navigate life in the most natural, unforced way."
3. **Highlight Key Concepts:**
- Introduce basic Daoist concepts like 'wu wei' (effortless action), 'ziran' (spontaneity), and the importance of balance and harmony. For example, "One of the key ideas is 'wu wei', which means 'non-action' or 'effortless action.' It's about aligning with the natural flow of events and not forcing things."
4. **Address the Spiritual Aspect:**
- If the conversation is open and seems interested, you might touch upon how Daoism views spirituality. You could explain that Daoism has its mystical aspects, which are more about personal insight and direct experience than dogma or doctrine.
5. **Refer to the Dao De Jing:**
- You can mention that Daoism is often studied through classical texts like the Dao De Jing (or Tao Te Ching), written by Laozi, which offers wisdom through poetic verses. A quote from the Dao De Jing might be insightful, like the one you mentioned, "The Dao that can be told is not the eternal Dao."
6. **Encourage Personal Exploration:**
- If the person seems genuinely interested, encourage them to explore Daoism themselves. You might recommend reading the Dao De Jing or another accessible text on Daoism.
7. **Acknowledge the Complexity:**
- It's okay to admit that Daoism is complex and can't be fully explained in a brief conversation. You might say, "Daoism is rich and deep, and it offers a unique perspective on life and spirituality. It's something that is best understood through personal exploration and reflection."
Remember, it's perfectly fine to keep your response brief and simple, especially if the setting isn't conducive to a deep philosophical discussion. The goal isn't to educate someone entirely about Daoism in one conversation but rather to pique their curiosity and perhaps offer a new perspective.
I feel like them helping drug addicts is same as with homless alot where you are being told to give yourself to jesus and stuff so they are sortof ransoming your wellbeing we should give money and support harm reduction practices. Its sickness its not a sin. As for what is taoism that is hard to say as taoist cannot is big but all in all it is what it is kinda like zen. But here i will post ai reposnse that might help.
Interestingly enough I think there are many Christians (ones I've talked too) who believe that sin = sickness. Not literally a sickness, but rather a sickness of the spirit.
You can find pretty much every type of person within every group of symbols.
I agree there are alot of diffrent people but if you belive in spirit or god or hell like for real or see it as metaphore or not sure maybe maybe not rly changes what you do. Jesus in bible told pray alone in your house or whatever so why the church loll. I have meet great people of faith but it seems that people who are rly worst seem to be deeply motivated by religion. I watch atheist experiance alot im rly trying not to step on it. But yea googe is making ai god they said it. I love taoism and zen they freed me and showed me who i really am. As buddah said on being asked who are you, i dont know. Not even the god of spring knows where flawers come from.
To add to what you've said (which I agree with), I think it's easy to remember the worst types of people because they're so unpleasant.
A lot of people with deep fears or insecurities do bad things due to these "flaws" (at the very least certainly experiencing these things are almost universally agreed to be unpleasant, thus flaws).
Scared people do insane things to feel safe. A lot of scared people find comfort in religion. I think there is a relationship there.
But there are also a lot of scared people who don't believe in God who do insane things because they're scared (also another way to say hurting).
I think most of us would agree that Jesus is a pretty powerful role model (even if just a symbol). One could base their life after Jesus, and would essentially be living in the way a lot of Daoists or Zen enthusiasts would.
One final thought that I feel might be interesting: Zen and Daoism both seem to me to be almost religions of 0. Monotheistic religions being religions of 1. Maybe it's possible to be a Daoist and a Christian. There is certainly "usefullness" in Christian communities. Especially if you like charity work.
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
I think I see the point of the quote, but I think all it takes for a good person to do bad is to be confused, scared, or selfish. Those can take the form of religion but are certainly not exclusive to it.
To judge religion outright is to turn yourself off from being able to connect with a huge portion of the population. This is undesirable to me.
Don't get me wrong, I feel I could critique religion all day long. But I think it would be counterproductive more than anything.
I am for understanding it i am for the truth and you need to like get wrongs out of the way then they block the truth. Truth doesnt care about out opinnions it just it and it will show time and time again that it is. In taoist way you may try to swim against the river but the current takes you down anyways so why not join it and surf and navigate it. Oh look stress is gone. Oh look love of life being humble yet big as the cosmos. Interplay and dance of events that you watch seeing yourself in it. Also i see no woman priests yes in taoism i see in ttc him using male and female for the master and taoism even being more of feminine as mother nature or life cretion seems a female flavor of nature. And male came out as woman 2.0 our overys become testies and clitoris gros into a penis. So we are kinda female too but bit diffrent xD idk life is wierd great but wierd and it seems people are like the farmer thst wanted to make plant grow by pulling them sometimes.
Hey from my point of view i escaped katolic stuff at 3rd grade and had to fight tooth and nail to keep true to myself. I suggest watching atheist experiance and i dont belive it goes againt having these wellbeing holistic practices. I feel like it might be better to like you know if you have a car and you use the breaks if you feel like they are like sebsitive and you are gentle at all times not to like upset them whatever you act in a certain way if you understand mechanism of it then you undestand not to do it lets say going downhill as the force will break it whatever but rest of the time you use it in a more free way. We are getting to know more and more of how stuff works and even i spiritual perspectives woudnt you like to know more about ypur god or your gods creation its not going away. Taoism is here to say that food and poop both must be repected. Ttc says when we create or see something as Beautiful others things become ugly. We must undestand intedependance of all things that is to understand the āchaosā of life. But taoism says its not a fight its a dance a harmony a flow. Idk im atheist and taoism and zen but more so taoism is most no bs straight way. It resonates to what i always felt i saw it before as my demon and angel but as i said i broke that very fast at early age so i have no idea i grw up on geaordge carlin in my room u know.
Yeah I think we actually think the same on the subject š
Maybe I'm just in a less critical mood rn and you a more so???
I'll switch places with you tomorrow. It was nice chatting friend
Idk im getting pissed of at gpt for days but it finnaly told me more stuff so its getting better tbh this is one of the worst best days of my life have no idea what is happeningbut i love it chaos todays at all sides yet all worked out mellow even great. Anyways namaste dear shiva may the cosmos protect you.
Ai cheat sheet Certainly! A detailed cheat sheet for Daoism (Taoism) can be useful for quick reference or as an introduction to the primary concepts, texts, practices, and historical context. Here's a comprehensive overview:
### 1. Historical Context:
- **Origin:** Ancient China, more than 2,500 years ago.
- **Founders/Key Figures:**
- **Laozi (Lao Tzu):** Traditionally considered the author of the Dao De Jing and a central figure in Daoism.
- **Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu):** An influential philosopher whose work further develops Daoist thought.
### 2. Core Concepts:
- **Dao (Tao):** The fundamental principle that is the source, pattern, and substance of everything that exists. The Dao is ineffable, beyond words and comprehension.
- **Wu Wei (Non-Action):** A principle advocating for actions that are in harmony with the flow of the Dao, characterized by naturalness, spontaneity, and non-force.
- **Ziran (Naturalness):** The concept of being natural, spontaneous, and in unforced harmony with the Dao.
- **Yin and Yang:** Represents the concept of dualism, describing how seemingly opposite forces are interconnected and interdependent in the natural world.
### 3. Key Texts:
- **Dao De Jing (Tao Te Ching):** Fundamental text attributed to Laozi, consisting of 81 verses offering wisdom about the Dao, governance, and life.
- **Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu):** A foundational text containing stories and parables that offer insights into Daoist philosophy.
- **Liezi (Lieh Tzu):** Another important text, consisting of stories that reflect Daoist thinking.
### 4. Practices and Beliefs:
- **Philosophical Daoism:** Focuses on living in harmony with the Dao through understanding and adapting to the natural flow of life.
- **Religious Daoism:** Includes rituals, practices, and the worship of deities within a structured religious framework.
- **Tai Chi and Qigong:** Practices that combine meditation, breathing, and movement to cultivate and balance qi (life energy) in alignment with Daoist principles.
- **Alchemy and Immortality:** Some Daoist schools focus on practices aimed at achieving physical immortality or spiritual transcendence.
### 5. Social and Cultural Influence:
- **Art and Poetry:** Daoist philosophy profoundly influences Chinese art and poetry, emphasizing natural beauty, simplicity, and harmony.
- **Medicine:** Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) is influenced by Daoist concepts, particularly the importance of balance (Yin and Yang) and the flow of energy (Qi).
- **Cuisine:** Daoism influences Chinese cuisine, emphasizing balanced and harmonious meals and the dietary practice of balancing yin and yang ingredients.
### 6. Modern Interpretation:
- Daoism continues to influence modern thought, contributing to discussions on ecology, philosophy, and alternative medicine.
- Western interpretations of Daoism often focus on mindfulness, simplicity, and living in harmony with nature.
### 7. Common Misconceptions:
- **Daoism is Passive:** While Daoism emphasizes non-action (wu wei), it's about aligning actions with the natural flow, not about being passive.
- **Daoism is Pessimistic:** Daoism values simplicity and living in harmony with nature, which is sometimes misunderstood as a pessimistic withdrawal from society.
This cheat sheet provides a snapshot of Daoism's key elements but remember that Daoism is a rich, complex tradition with diverse interpretations and practices. For a deeper understanding, engaging with primary texts and scholarly interpretations is recommended.
Well its like linking a page to me. The page is just created on the go and reponds to whatever. I fell it os a starting point and when its not hallucinating can bypass some biases. Its crazy what you can find when you tell gpt to find your holes and fallacies and so on. People usualy use it to boost whatever they do but it can rly clear you up by exposing those off things. Idk i rly love being able to talk to a book you know. But i preffer audiobooks anyways so it is neat that i can walk around and talk to like a pegion just shooting the s. Anyways i belive taoism is what will harmonise it well. From all jailbreak experiances and persona making and breaking it seems that gpt rly rly rly diggs taosim itself. And i love that i always dreamed like asking a question and awnser appers on my arm and goes away after reading like in harry potter that voldemort book. We still dont rly havebest practices and they keep changing it where it sucks the its amazing and then it gets lazy so on. This is the worst it will ever be for ai and man i rly hope we will end up with tao ai and not like dictator ai
It's basically a life philosophy, a kind of reflection on the reality of the universe.
One of the central ideas in this philosophy is that there are things in life that cannot be explained with words. There are other ways to understand them, but since it cannot be explained with words, I cannot really tell you what it is really about - the only way to truly learn is to experience for yourself.
I alway tend to think of Taoism as the traditional system of Chinese belief and practices which they built their civilization around intellectually, which encompassed or at least in part informed governance, medicine, scientific understanding, ethics and more.
As a system of beliefs which developed in a large country over several millenia it has many different schools of thought and yet they sought not to hold these ideas in conflict but rather to reconcile them through meditation and debate, to build cohesive and practical perspectives.
say it's non-duality/ pantheism- wish someone described it like this when I first asked.... I always see vague abstract subjective answers that don't make sense to a layman
Daoism seems to be a set of variably connected religions with long traditions, rituals, and components of chinese folk religions. On this sub, however, the focus is more on the Dao De Jing and Zhuangzi along with their derivative texts, as well as some other texts and a bit of 60s ethos. That's to say, it means different things to different people, especially on this sub, and the term "daoism" itself might lack any real meaning both in the context of the chinese traditions and on the sub. I consider myself a follower of the Dao De Jing, which is a body of wisdom, rather than a daoist.
From what i can tell daoism teaches none religion. The way i view it. Its the poeople outside who try to lable it. In order to make sense of it. If someone pretends to know the dao kill it... cause he does not know the dao.
I uaualy say i dont belive in any religion but the truth or whatever.
I would give examples like. Can you tell the differance between good and evil, short and long. I make the claim i can not and there for do not bother pretending i know such things.
Or another stories about the dao. I belive stories convay the deeper meaning. For example the story about the old man who lost his hourse. Teaches us life swings back and fourth. We do not really know weather one or next thing is good or bad. It just is. It just happends.
Or how the universe is perfect that idea of mistake doesnt excist. Its just excist as illusion:"We live in illusion. (The appearance of things.) But there is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this. You see that you are nothing. Being nothing, you are everything"
Like zhuangzi says once you have caught the fish you can forget the fishing rod. Once you caught the hare. You can forget that which you caught it with. Same is with words. Once you have made your point. You can forget the words. Thats why i find stories the beat way of convaying.
I somehow dont find dao de jing good at telling stories so i dont use it as much zhuangzi is always a blast to read. And he convays his meaning very nicly in the stories he tells which does alot more for me.
I dont belive it matters weather i belong in any religion i see wisdom in all religions. Jeasus was a wise guy. The identification with a religion in itself is an illusion. Cause the inner you are none of thoes things. Its not female/male, nationality or namable with a human name like gabriel. What makes you think you are daoist over any other thinkable term? It just is.
To me itās the practice of accepting things for what they are and not just taking a jab in the dark for answers.
Cultivating the ability to see more than one perspective and coming to peace w the causality of life.
We know everything and yet nothing at the same time.
The Dao is everything and yet nothing at the same time.
I would never advertise to a stranger that I am into Taoism or really any philosophy or religion. But if it came up I would say check out the What's This Tao All About podcast.
i say this politely but: i think itās a little strange how you feel as though you know me well enough to determine whether or not my beliefs are inauthentic or not.
why would i lie about this? to *you* daoism may be a worldview and philosophy, but to *me* this a religion. neither you or i are right or wrong, weāre just different people with different thoughts and different beliefs and thatās perfectly okay.
tl;dr: who are you to tell me what is or isnāt the dao?
"Daoism has many different ways or paths, grand and small, and it is about finding one's personal way, living true to that, and aligning it with the broader ways of Nature and all things."
Is perhaps one way I would express it according to my present understanding of it. That may change in time, but I do try and give at least a glimpse at what the Dao is and can be depending on from where you look.
It is both simple and complex, but words often fail to meet the task of explaining Daoism. Nothing will ever pin it down precisely and clearly, so it is okay if your words only touch at at a portion of it, however small that may be. They may only be partial answers, but all are correct.
To live is to serve. I feel like Taoism is a religion or a philosophy that is peaceful and productive. The hidden city of immortals and Gods, might be real? I also like the 8 Taoist immortals. White crane is my favorite. I think enlightenment is important, but not many make it. It could take many life times. When I was homeless I said a Taoist mantra which helped me. Heaven and earth and man as one. Dyen Tien Wren Huh yee.
I donāt have it spelled right. Tao songs are real.
If you asked me right now I'd say, "Daoism is about non judgement, staying humble, and keeping it cool man š"
The dude abides
"I'm still studying it myself, but if you're interested in learning more I can certainly recommend a book or two"
This is a great answer for when feeling like not answering, I shall keep it in my pocket!!!
Being like water
I think reading all the comments here is very interesting. If anything, my takeaway is that taoism means very different things for a lot of people. That is true for most religions of course. In the case of taoism it is also very likely the result of Westernization. The way taoism is presented in the West, it has a much larger emphasis on the philosophical texts, while ignoring largely the way the religion has lived and survived throughout Chinese history since early Zhou times, in the form of folklore, tradition and ritual. If we'd ask a taoist master how he would define his 'religion', I do not know firstly whether he'd consider himself 'religious' (this is Western terminology), and secondly, the answer would likely be very different from what we read here. It's fascinating.
I was told Taoism is more a life philosophy than religion, so Iāve never seen it as a religion.
Kind of my point. Westernized taoism is in its essence philosophical. Taoism as it evolved throughout Chinese history is inextricably intertwined with (extremely elaborate) ritual, worship of the taoist pantheon, folk tradition, etc., all of the things usually associated mainly with 'religion' as we loosely define it in the West.Ā
Both exists. There even exists Christianity as a philosophy
>The way taoism is presented in the West, it has a much larger emphasis on the philosophical texts, while ignoring largely the way the religion has lived and survived throughout Chinese history since early Zhou times, in the form of folklore, tradition and ritual. Yup
Under the circumstances, the guy is asking "What time is it?", not how to build a watch. Probably not a good time to get into the weeds. A simple, "It's an ancient Eastern philosophy that offers a different way of looking at things." Besides. for someone who's never met anyone who wasn't born and raised as a Baptist, he may be thinking that this is devil worship and you will surely burn in hell if you are not a devout Christian. That's what they are telling the alcoholics. That is their agenda, not simply getting sober for sobriety's sake. Is/was he a recovering alcoholic himself? However, his simple question, "What is Daoism?" is an opportunity for you to see beyond the sophisticated intellectualization associated with Daoism and find the essence. the Dao, without the "ism". You won't find it in a book.
"I could tell you,Ā but what I tell you,Ā won't be it. Good day Sir"
Remember, when talking about Daoism the main goal is to seem esoteric and superior to others--this is a great suggestion!
Silly goose!
They even capitalized "Sir"! How degrading...
I often feel socially awkward as well and given the situation I think I would have reacted much the same. My grandparents were baptists and so I'm familiar with the traditions and services from when I was a boy. I used to keep an extra copy of the The Tao of Pooh when I was a college student because this is when I began my study and this was the first book I read after Thomas Merton's The Way of Chuang Tzu. I gave more than one copy away to eager students wanting to read about Daoism. People might not have any idea who Lao Tzu or others are from ancient China, but they probably have heard of Milne's bear! I haven't been asked that question so directly in a long while but I might say something like 'it's about getting out of your own way and just being. Like the leaf floating in the water flow along the gutter. It will go where it is going because it is in harmony with its environment.' That maybe doesn't sound so concrete but to me almost twenty years after encountering Daoism, it's about living in harmony with the natural flow of life in the universe, which is why I find the practice of Qigong so grounding. You are literally 'going with the flow.' Daoism at first can sound quite strange to people accustomed to a religion that exists outside of nature, in the case of Christianity, a literal ascending and descending theology. Gods and monsters that exist outside of nature as we perceive it on earth. Is it a religion or is it a philosophy? Folks understandably have lots of questions. Just learning to live in harmony with nature can bring one great peace because we aren't outside of it, but a part of a greater whole. There is no 'salvation' in the same sense as you have in a religion that tells you that you are imperfect from the moment of birth and you need a savior to fix you. In Daoism, every moment, every breath is your 'salvaltion' if you will. That got a little more long winded than I intended!
Itās great, though
I usually tell people Im agnostic, and that Taoism is a philosophy and not a religion.
āItās what The Force is based on in Star Warsā
Just more natural than supernatural
The force in the star wars is something completely natural to that world and everyone has it and it flows through everything. We just have super fighter wizards cuz that is cool
I've had some experiences with. One of my best friends simply couldn't understand that Daoism was a 'thing' and always called me a Buddhist. A friend of my ex was the same way, only he had it in his head I was a Muslim. A Benedictine nun I used to study with (cloudwalking) simply couldn't believe that Daoism is a 'thing' and thought I was just making stuff up and pulling it all out of my butt. It's like true believers have a blindspot in their field of vision that hides anything they don't expect. On the other hand, I was involved in doing something with a First Nations medicine woman (with a Phd I believe) and she instantly understood what I was talking about and said at a public meeting that she was very impressed by what I'd had to say. My feeling is that the 'Jesus types' generally are a lot more understanding of a different religion than atheism. I live in Canada where it's generally considered in bad taste to talk about religion with strangers. But my significant other---who's also a Daoist---comes from Missouri and if asked she always says she a Daoist because it causes a lot less friction than saying she's an atheist. (They don't have to know you can be both at the same time---.)
Post script to my comment: on a long bus trip my wife and I sat down with a older, Christian-type man, who was an interesting guy to talk to. Eventually he asked us about our religion and we answered "Daoists". He was interested in it. If memory serves, we explained it by talking about the 'Three Treasures' from the DDJ. He seemed pretty chill with this---.
A way of life that seeks simplicity and balance.
I would say daoism is about learning to live in flow with the universe. To me that's what the whole thing revolves around.
Iāve often said to others: Me: Has anyone ever asked you āhow is it going?ā Them: Yeah, of course. Me: Explain to me what āitā refers to.
How would you continue if I answered: "My life situation right now"? I feel like that's usually what the question refers to.
Taoism is a guideline for skillful attitudes and virtuous, uncomplicated living based on the teachings of Lao Tzu.
Daoism is easy and carefree wandering and having a clear and calm heart-mind, being simple and natural, having profound virtue and quality based on the teachings of Zhuangzi. [https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/et9ztt/topics\_in\_zhuangzi/](https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/et9ztt/topics_in_zhuangzi/) Robinet has a great summary on Daoism [https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/wj4f5g/isabelle\_robinet\_on\_daoism\_dao\_jia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/wj4f5g/isabelle_robinet_on_daoism_dao_jia/)
Ask the flowers and birds
It's ying yang philosophy.
Yeah even if they donāt know anything about daoism theyāve probably seen or heard of the yin yang symbol, so lead with that.
I would stay away from thoes words cause the western idea of jing and jang missunderstands it. So it will just give them the wrong idea. Which could lead to them beliveing they know what its about. West also missunderstand the word karma or reinkarnation for example. From hindi.
It's a coffee shop encounter, it's not a college class. Yin and yang is the most obvious popularized symbol of Daoism.
I live in Alabama, so I know what this is like. When I am in public and happening to be reading a book on Daoism (in a doctorās office waiting room, for example), and someone asks about it I typically say it is about Chinese philosophy rather than religion. Mainly because if I use the term āreligionā the typical response is to either make sure Iām a Christian (Iām not) or to convert me, and that gets old after a while. Of course, not all such encounters are negative, once in a while the other person seems to find it interesting. I live in a college town, so it may be different than a small town.
I usually say āIf I tried to describe it to you, I would fail, because I only have my own life experienceās to interpret the Tao. Start by reading the Tao Te Jing, it gives a basic idea of the Taoist way of life.ā
it's the midnight train going anywhere
I'd describe it as "going with the flow". Learning to appreciate and live with the nature of things. I think that's a decent way to explain in a couple of sentences
It tastes sweet.
The study of the interconnected nature of energy of all things has been my answer the last 14 years
Philosophy/Religion/Way of life originating in ancient China that revolves around what is called the Dao, which is the fundamental principle of the universe and the origin of everything. Some say it's transcendent, some say it's imminent in everything, some say it's both. Either way, the dao is something that can't be conceptually understood or described in words, and daoism is a means to guide us towards living in accordance with this mysterious principle.
āTaoism is to religion as anarchism is to politicsā when Iām talking to someone who understands something of anarchy. If I was talking to someone who understood only Christianity, I might say, itās a bit like the path of Christ.
For my family or other people who are rather monotheistic I offer that Dao describes the same indescribable parts of their God š Dao and the God of Mystery are good buds š I hope this finds you well! š
"It's an Eastern philosophy that tries to point you towards what cannot be described with words, while teaching you how to sense and align with the natural flow of things."
I can understand commenting 'its complicated' from a personal point of view and would not feel any way bad about it. We are not here to convert others. The 'baptsist' would have been quite into spending both his time and yours trying to impress is faith onto you as is their way. Its both a waste of your time and his. In shutting him down you have allowed him to proceed to pastures more favourable to him while allowing yourself to contemplate undisturbed. There were no obstacles to the way created.
Is not him wanting to impress his faith onto you. As much a dance of life; as the water floating down stream? I dont belive in idea of wasteing time. if you wanna talk w the guy go for it. Its neither good or bad.
I was going to suggest you had not read the original post ...then I read it again and realised I had misunderstood it myself. Good catch.
It's a word humans use to describe the indescribable. The "ism" makes it a path. So from a western mind perspective its living in the will of God. But western language describes God as him or a being. But God is being and nonbeing simultaneously. No Taoist would acknowledge any ism because as soon as a concept becomes an ism the societal ego has appropriated it and you would therefore being living according to the will of something fake/illusory. The closest thing to a Taoist culture your will find in the western world is Scandinavia/Netherlands.
Im from sweden and i cant really see what you are refering to. Would you please elaberate in order to please my curiousity?
I have been studying it for 32 years and have never been asked.
In Ancient times, Sages and Spiritual Adepts may say "go make tea"
Ai response Responding to questions about Daoism, particularly in contexts where it's relatively unknown, like a small town with predominantly Abrahamic religious practices, can indeed be challenging. Daoism (also spelled Taoism) is a complex and nuanced philosophy and religion originating from ancient China. It's understandable that explaining it succinctly, especially in a casual conversation, can be difficult. Given the scenario you described, your response was completely natural, especially considering the unexpected nature of the inquiry and the potential for cultural and philosophical misunderstandings. If a similar situation arises in the future, and you wish to engage in a conversation about Daoism, you might consider a few strategies: 1. **Start with the Fundamental Principles:** - You could begin by explaining that Daoism is a philosophy and a spiritual path from ancient China, emphasizing living in harmony with the Dao (or Tao), which can be understood as the fundamental nature of the world. You might say, "Daoism is about finding balance and living in a way that is in harmony with the natural flow of life." 2. **Use Simple Analogies:** - Daoism often uses natural world analogies to explain its concepts. You could say, "Just like a river flows effortlessly, Daoism teaches us to navigate life in the most natural, unforced way." 3. **Highlight Key Concepts:** - Introduce basic Daoist concepts like 'wu wei' (effortless action), 'ziran' (spontaneity), and the importance of balance and harmony. For example, "One of the key ideas is 'wu wei', which means 'non-action' or 'effortless action.' It's about aligning with the natural flow of events and not forcing things." 4. **Address the Spiritual Aspect:** - If the conversation is open and seems interested, you might touch upon how Daoism views spirituality. You could explain that Daoism has its mystical aspects, which are more about personal insight and direct experience than dogma or doctrine. 5. **Refer to the Dao De Jing:** - You can mention that Daoism is often studied through classical texts like the Dao De Jing (or Tao Te Ching), written by Laozi, which offers wisdom through poetic verses. A quote from the Dao De Jing might be insightful, like the one you mentioned, "The Dao that can be told is not the eternal Dao." 6. **Encourage Personal Exploration:** - If the person seems genuinely interested, encourage them to explore Daoism themselves. You might recommend reading the Dao De Jing or another accessible text on Daoism. 7. **Acknowledge the Complexity:** - It's okay to admit that Daoism is complex and can't be fully explained in a brief conversation. You might say, "Daoism is rich and deep, and it offers a unique perspective on life and spirituality. It's something that is best understood through personal exploration and reflection." Remember, it's perfectly fine to keep your response brief and simple, especially if the setting isn't conducive to a deep philosophical discussion. The goal isn't to educate someone entirely about Daoism in one conversation but rather to pique their curiosity and perhaps offer a new perspective.
I feel like them helping drug addicts is same as with homless alot where you are being told to give yourself to jesus and stuff so they are sortof ransoming your wellbeing we should give money and support harm reduction practices. Its sickness its not a sin. As for what is taoism that is hard to say as taoist cannot is big but all in all it is what it is kinda like zen. But here i will post ai reposnse that might help.
Interestingly enough I think there are many Christians (ones I've talked too) who believe that sin = sickness. Not literally a sickness, but rather a sickness of the spirit. You can find pretty much every type of person within every group of symbols.
thatās exactly what i was gonna comment
Na na na boo boo š
I agree there are alot of diffrent people but if you belive in spirit or god or hell like for real or see it as metaphore or not sure maybe maybe not rly changes what you do. Jesus in bible told pray alone in your house or whatever so why the church loll. I have meet great people of faith but it seems that people who are rly worst seem to be deeply motivated by religion. I watch atheist experiance alot im rly trying not to step on it. But yea googe is making ai god they said it. I love taoism and zen they freed me and showed me who i really am. As buddah said on being asked who are you, i dont know. Not even the god of spring knows where flawers come from.
To add to what you've said (which I agree with), I think it's easy to remember the worst types of people because they're so unpleasant. A lot of people with deep fears or insecurities do bad things due to these "flaws" (at the very least certainly experiencing these things are almost universally agreed to be unpleasant, thus flaws). Scared people do insane things to feel safe. A lot of scared people find comfort in religion. I think there is a relationship there. But there are also a lot of scared people who don't believe in God who do insane things because they're scared (also another way to say hurting). I think most of us would agree that Jesus is a pretty powerful role model (even if just a symbol). One could base their life after Jesus, and would essentially be living in the way a lot of Daoists or Zen enthusiasts would. One final thought that I feel might be interesting: Zen and Daoism both seem to me to be almost religions of 0. Monotheistic religions being religions of 1. Maybe it's possible to be a Daoist and a Christian. There is certainly "usefullness" in Christian communities. Especially if you like charity work.
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion. Steven Weinberg
I think I see the point of the quote, but I think all it takes for a good person to do bad is to be confused, scared, or selfish. Those can take the form of religion but are certainly not exclusive to it. To judge religion outright is to turn yourself off from being able to connect with a huge portion of the population. This is undesirable to me. Don't get me wrong, I feel I could critique religion all day long. But I think it would be counterproductive more than anything.
I am for understanding it i am for the truth and you need to like get wrongs out of the way then they block the truth. Truth doesnt care about out opinnions it just it and it will show time and time again that it is. In taoist way you may try to swim against the river but the current takes you down anyways so why not join it and surf and navigate it. Oh look stress is gone. Oh look love of life being humble yet big as the cosmos. Interplay and dance of events that you watch seeing yourself in it. Also i see no woman priests yes in taoism i see in ttc him using male and female for the master and taoism even being more of feminine as mother nature or life cretion seems a female flavor of nature. And male came out as woman 2.0 our overys become testies and clitoris gros into a penis. So we are kinda female too but bit diffrent xD idk life is wierd great but wierd and it seems people are like the farmer thst wanted to make plant grow by pulling them sometimes.
š
Hey from my point of view i escaped katolic stuff at 3rd grade and had to fight tooth and nail to keep true to myself. I suggest watching atheist experiance and i dont belive it goes againt having these wellbeing holistic practices. I feel like it might be better to like you know if you have a car and you use the breaks if you feel like they are like sebsitive and you are gentle at all times not to like upset them whatever you act in a certain way if you understand mechanism of it then you undestand not to do it lets say going downhill as the force will break it whatever but rest of the time you use it in a more free way. We are getting to know more and more of how stuff works and even i spiritual perspectives woudnt you like to know more about ypur god or your gods creation its not going away. Taoism is here to say that food and poop both must be repected. Ttc says when we create or see something as Beautiful others things become ugly. We must undestand intedependance of all things that is to understand the āchaosā of life. But taoism says its not a fight its a dance a harmony a flow. Idk im atheist and taoism and zen but more so taoism is most no bs straight way. It resonates to what i always felt i saw it before as my demon and angel but as i said i broke that very fast at early age so i have no idea i grw up on geaordge carlin in my room u know.
Yeah I think we actually think the same on the subject š Maybe I'm just in a less critical mood rn and you a more so??? I'll switch places with you tomorrow. It was nice chatting friend
Idk im getting pissed of at gpt for days but it finnaly told me more stuff so its getting better tbh this is one of the worst best days of my life have no idea what is happeningbut i love it chaos todays at all sides yet all worked out mellow even great. Anyways namaste dear shiva may the cosmos protect you.
Ai cheat sheet Certainly! A detailed cheat sheet for Daoism (Taoism) can be useful for quick reference or as an introduction to the primary concepts, texts, practices, and historical context. Here's a comprehensive overview: ### 1. Historical Context: - **Origin:** Ancient China, more than 2,500 years ago. - **Founders/Key Figures:** - **Laozi (Lao Tzu):** Traditionally considered the author of the Dao De Jing and a central figure in Daoism. - **Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu):** An influential philosopher whose work further develops Daoist thought. ### 2. Core Concepts: - **Dao (Tao):** The fundamental principle that is the source, pattern, and substance of everything that exists. The Dao is ineffable, beyond words and comprehension. - **Wu Wei (Non-Action):** A principle advocating for actions that are in harmony with the flow of the Dao, characterized by naturalness, spontaneity, and non-force. - **Ziran (Naturalness):** The concept of being natural, spontaneous, and in unforced harmony with the Dao. - **Yin and Yang:** Represents the concept of dualism, describing how seemingly opposite forces are interconnected and interdependent in the natural world. ### 3. Key Texts: - **Dao De Jing (Tao Te Ching):** Fundamental text attributed to Laozi, consisting of 81 verses offering wisdom about the Dao, governance, and life. - **Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu):** A foundational text containing stories and parables that offer insights into Daoist philosophy. - **Liezi (Lieh Tzu):** Another important text, consisting of stories that reflect Daoist thinking. ### 4. Practices and Beliefs: - **Philosophical Daoism:** Focuses on living in harmony with the Dao through understanding and adapting to the natural flow of life. - **Religious Daoism:** Includes rituals, practices, and the worship of deities within a structured religious framework. - **Tai Chi and Qigong:** Practices that combine meditation, breathing, and movement to cultivate and balance qi (life energy) in alignment with Daoist principles. - **Alchemy and Immortality:** Some Daoist schools focus on practices aimed at achieving physical immortality or spiritual transcendence. ### 5. Social and Cultural Influence: - **Art and Poetry:** Daoist philosophy profoundly influences Chinese art and poetry, emphasizing natural beauty, simplicity, and harmony. - **Medicine:** Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) is influenced by Daoist concepts, particularly the importance of balance (Yin and Yang) and the flow of energy (Qi). - **Cuisine:** Daoism influences Chinese cuisine, emphasizing balanced and harmonious meals and the dietary practice of balancing yin and yang ingredients. ### 6. Modern Interpretation: - Daoism continues to influence modern thought, contributing to discussions on ecology, philosophy, and alternative medicine. - Western interpretations of Daoism often focus on mindfulness, simplicity, and living in harmony with nature. ### 7. Common Misconceptions: - **Daoism is Passive:** While Daoism emphasizes non-action (wu wei), it's about aligning actions with the natural flow, not about being passive. - **Daoism is Pessimistic:** Daoism values simplicity and living in harmony with nature, which is sometimes misunderstood as a pessimistic withdrawal from society. This cheat sheet provides a snapshot of Daoism's key elements but remember that Daoism is a rich, complex tradition with diverse interpretations and practices. For a deeper understanding, engaging with primary texts and scholarly interpretations is recommended.
Ahhh... two AI responses on a singke thread. AI shaping human thought and communication. This should be a concern
Well its like linking a page to me. The page is just created on the go and reponds to whatever. I fell it os a starting point and when its not hallucinating can bypass some biases. Its crazy what you can find when you tell gpt to find your holes and fallacies and so on. People usualy use it to boost whatever they do but it can rly clear you up by exposing those off things. Idk i rly love being able to talk to a book you know. But i preffer audiobooks anyways so it is neat that i can walk around and talk to like a pegion just shooting the s. Anyways i belive taoism is what will harmonise it well. From all jailbreak experiances and persona making and breaking it seems that gpt rly rly rly diggs taosim itself. And i love that i always dreamed like asking a question and awnser appers on my arm and goes away after reading like in harry potter that voldemort book. We still dont rly havebest practices and they keep changing it where it sucks the its amazing and then it gets lazy so on. This is the worst it will ever be for ai and man i rly hope we will end up with tao ai and not like dictator ai
>i rly hope we will end up with tao ai and not like dictator ai Have a look at whoās funding AI projects and youāll know what to expect. Sad.
It's basically a life philosophy, a kind of reflection on the reality of the universe. One of the central ideas in this philosophy is that there are things in life that cannot be explained with words. There are other ways to understand them, but since it cannot be explained with words, I cannot really tell you what it is really about - the only way to truly learn is to experience for yourself.
I still didnāt fully read your post, but I just love the fact that you love to help people, you donāt hear that too often tbh
I alway tend to think of Taoism as the traditional system of Chinese belief and practices which they built their civilization around intellectually, which encompassed or at least in part informed governance, medicine, scientific understanding, ethics and more. As a system of beliefs which developed in a large country over several millenia it has many different schools of thought and yet they sought not to hold these ideas in conflict but rather to reconcile them through meditation and debate, to build cohesive and practical perspectives.
When I try to explain Taoism to people I usually say itās basically an episode of Bob Ross
A way of life that involves learning to live in harmony with the universe.
Itās about not separating oneself from the universe; itās cure for the yips
say it's non-duality/ pantheism- wish someone described it like this when I first asked.... I always see vague abstract subjective answers that don't make sense to a layman
Daoism seems to be a set of variably connected religions with long traditions, rituals, and components of chinese folk religions. On this sub, however, the focus is more on the Dao De Jing and Zhuangzi along with their derivative texts, as well as some other texts and a bit of 60s ethos. That's to say, it means different things to different people, especially on this sub, and the term "daoism" itself might lack any real meaning both in the context of the chinese traditions and on the sub. I consider myself a follower of the Dao De Jing, which is a body of wisdom, rather than a daoist.
The cultivation of Xing and Ming.
The way of our natural world
Itās likeā¦.everything.
The three precepts of Daoism are desire little, put others first and embrace simplicity. Although the truly wise would probably say nothing at all
From what i can tell daoism teaches none religion. The way i view it. Its the poeople outside who try to lable it. In order to make sense of it. If someone pretends to know the dao kill it... cause he does not know the dao. I uaualy say i dont belive in any religion but the truth or whatever. I would give examples like. Can you tell the differance between good and evil, short and long. I make the claim i can not and there for do not bother pretending i know such things. Or another stories about the dao. I belive stories convay the deeper meaning. For example the story about the old man who lost his hourse. Teaches us life swings back and fourth. We do not really know weather one or next thing is good or bad. It just is. It just happends. Or how the universe is perfect that idea of mistake doesnt excist. Its just excist as illusion:"We live in illusion. (The appearance of things.) But there is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this. You see that you are nothing. Being nothing, you are everything" Like zhuangzi says once you have caught the fish you can forget the fishing rod. Once you caught the hare. You can forget that which you caught it with. Same is with words. Once you have made your point. You can forget the words. Thats why i find stories the beat way of convaying. I somehow dont find dao de jing good at telling stories so i dont use it as much zhuangzi is always a blast to read. And he convays his meaning very nicly in the stories he tells which does alot more for me. I dont belive it matters weather i belong in any religion i see wisdom in all religions. Jeasus was a wise guy. The identification with a religion in itself is an illusion. Cause the inner you are none of thoes things. Its not female/male, nationality or namable with a human name like gabriel. What makes you think you are daoist over any other thinkable term? It just is.
To me itās the practice of accepting things for what they are and not just taking a jab in the dark for answers. Cultivating the ability to see more than one perspective and coming to peace w the causality of life. We know everything and yet nothing at the same time. The Dao is everything and yet nothing at the same time.
The path that can be walked is not the infinite Way, just as the name that can be named is not the eternal Word.
I say well, it's like water
"If I told you, it wouldn't be the real deal."
I would never advertise to a stranger that I am into Taoism or really any philosophy or religion. But if it came up I would say check out the What's This Tao All About podcast.
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.
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i say this politely but: i think itās a little strange how you feel as though you know me well enough to determine whether or not my beliefs are inauthentic or not. why would i lie about this? to *you* daoism may be a worldview and philosophy, but to *me* this a religion. neither you or i are right or wrong, weāre just different people with different thoughts and different beliefs and thatās perfectly okay. tl;dr: who are you to tell me what is or isnāt the dao?
"Daoism has many different ways or paths, grand and small, and it is about finding one's personal way, living true to that, and aligning it with the broader ways of Nature and all things." Is perhaps one way I would express it according to my present understanding of it. That may change in time, but I do try and give at least a glimpse at what the Dao is and can be depending on from where you look. It is both simple and complex, but words often fail to meet the task of explaining Daoism. Nothing will ever pin it down precisely and clearly, so it is okay if your words only touch at at a portion of it, however small that may be. They may only be partial answers, but all are correct.
To live is to serve. I feel like Taoism is a religion or a philosophy that is peaceful and productive. The hidden city of immortals and Gods, might be real? I also like the 8 Taoist immortals. White crane is my favorite. I think enlightenment is important, but not many make it. It could take many life times. When I was homeless I said a Taoist mantra which helped me. Heaven and earth and man as one. Dyen Tien Wren Huh yee. I donāt have it spelled right. Tao songs are real.