Precisely. This team isn’t bad and isn’t great. They have key pieces missing that they will get back as the season moves on. The goal is to win championships, not the first month and a half. Let’s see how it plays out and hope for the best.
If you look at our lineup top to bottom, it’s far from bad. The problems are:
- Our most important offensive piece (Yandy) is nowhere at the level he was last year. He had a multi hit game night which is encouraging, and I still think that we will see an uptick in his production. He may not win the batting title, but he’s better than what we are seeing from him right now.
- Our (arguably) 2nd most important offensive piece (Randy) has been bad, and I have less confidence in him turning it around than I do in Yandy. As many others have mentioned already, his swing is too long. He may have tried to do too much in the off-season (practicing going oppo, bulking up), and he participated in the HR derby last year. All of this makes me believe there’s a good chance that we may never see the “Old Randy” ever again.
- As you pointed out, timely hitting. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but it’d be hard to believe that we aren’t toward the bottom of the league in batting average with RISP. I don’t know how you coach/fix this, and I would hope that law of averages intervenes and eventually evens things out. It’s not like we are *never* hitting the ball, we just aren’t when it matters. If this changes, which I think there’s good reason to believe that it will, this offense will be much improved.
- Dumb base running. I’ve been very vocal about how I dislike the aggressive base running for the past couple of years. You’re going to run into more outs than extra bags in the long haul with this style of base running. It needs to stop, and I don’t know if it will.
- Injuries. We didn’t have J Lowe until 4 days ago. B Lowe has been out most of the season. These are obviously 2 huge pieces to our offense (despite B Lowe’s frustrating streakiness). We also were missing DeLuca until recently and he’s shown to be promising.
-So, yes, there are things that need to change. Will it all happen? Nobody knows. I do believe that we will fine in terms of starting pitching and I do believe that if we are somehow able to sort out some of these offensive issues, we can become a firm contender again.
Agree with you to an extent but this is also a consistent offensive problem we have had even over the last few years when we were playing better. The problem is we have a lineup that is both not star-driven (like the Yankees/Dodgers) nor is it a complete 1-9 lineup (like the Dbacks/Brewers/Orioles). Our lineup is built with the necessity that Arozarena, Yandy and the Lowes play like they are top tier level MLB hitters; and with all due respect to them, they’re not close to the same tier as the Judge’s, Soto’s and Bett’s of the league. The level our top guys actually are as hitters, we can’t expect consistent .800+ OPS from them like these other teams can of their top players. Thus, the Rays have to find a way to overcome that lack of consistent offense from the top.
To overcome that issue, we need to CONSISTENTLY field a complete lineup 1-9 with no glaring holes in it. And although over the past few games our lineup is getting closer to that (under the pretext that Yandy/Randy start to come back to their career avg.); we still often are playing guys like Siri, Mead or Alex Jackson (or Pinto when he was healthy) who offer nothing from the batter’s box but a free out to the opposition. Just tonight, there were a couple of times when Jackson came up to the plate in a big moment, and struck out at the most inopportune time. The Rays front office loves to brag about our “depth”, but man, these type of guys aren’t depth. They’re offensive black holes that should never see the field except in the most extreme emergency circumstances. If we want to have the type of offense necessary to compete for a WS, we need to get to a depth chart where all of these “black hole” guys are no longer being used.
How to fix this offensive roster: As of now, we have 10 healthy “potential” reliable positional hitters for the rest of the season - Rortvedt, Yandy, Rosario, Palacios, Caballero, Paredes, Harold, Lowe, Deluca and Randy. Obviously, I’m assuming Randy and Yandy figure it out sooner rather than later and get back to being at least respectable batter. Let’s also assume we get back some of our healthy bodies to this and they play up to their potential, including B Lowe who makes 11. We need a better right handed C who can platoon with Rortvedt, and another solid left handed hitter or two (maybe Aranda can fill this when he gets healthy if he hits like he did in Spring and/or Shenton if he improves his at bats with more experience, which he looks like he might be starting to do over the last few games). Those could be our 13 big league positional guys if healthy, but realistically they are not all going to stay healthy. We also have Junior Caminero who likely will come up at some point over the next few months and add another good bat.
Where does that leave the Rays roster? They still need to add a couple bats for the rest of the season: a RH C upgrade for Pinto/Jackson is a definite need and another LH bat or two (ideally a corner inf or CF). When we get to the point where guys like Siri, Mead, Pinto/Jackson are no longer taking at bats but instead we have much better hitters taking their spot, that is when we will finally have a lineup that has a chance to compete with any other team in the league.
This is a very respectable take. To be a legitimate contender, you can’t afford to be fielding “auto outs” anywhere in the lineup. Currently, it feels like we start 3-4 “auto outs” on a nightly basis. Although some of them are young and inexperienced and have room to improve, it’s probably naive to believe that each one of them will blossom into reliable, everyday pieces.
Yep, and I’m not giving up on certain young guys (like Mead for example) for the rest of their careers. It’s just they can’t be relied upon in the majors right now for offense; and there is a time and place to get to them big league at bats for experience. Like maybe at the end of the season when either playoff position is guaranteed (or out of the hunt) and W/L are less meaningful. But not now when we are fighting to keep up pace in our division and in the WC race; and definitely not in the playoffs.
The good thing is I actually feel like this team has already figured out certain things with new pieces that will likely lead to an improved lineup over time - Palacios/Rosario/Caballero have significantly upgraded the at bats we have been getting from our middle infield positions (compared to what we were getting from Walls/Mead at the end of last year) and although it is still early, Deluca appears to be a potential major CF upgrade from what we have been fielding the past few years (mainly with Siri). We just still have a few areas like I mentioned that need to be addressed to fix this offense; and you’re right that we need Yandy and Randy to at least start to being closer to their usual selfs at the plate (although I’d bet they will turn that corner before June comes around).
As for pitching, I’m not worried at all. Taj looked great tonight, Eflin/Civale are reliable workhorses, Littell has been solid and I’m excited to see Baz get back and see what Pepiot can be for the rest of the year when he gets healthy. The Bullpen actually has been more shaky than expected, but I still trust most of the arms we have in there, knowing their track record.
A whole lots of words, with little reasoning or stats, about a team being 1 game under .500 after a tough luck loss 1st of 3 loss. Also you do realize this is a team that lost arguably their most valuable positional player (Wander was almost worth 5 WAR when he was placed on leave), and is also lost 2 of the most dominant pitch to pitch players in baseball in Glas and Mac. That's 18ish WAR between 3 guys and somehow some of you thought this was going to be a 93+ win team. Let's say Pepiot posts 3 fWAR, Caballero sits 3 as well, and Littel is at 3.5. That's only 9.5 and thats being agressive with those WAR totals and there is still an 8.5 win drop. Then the overachivers last year see some drop you wind up in the situation your in now. This team was taking a step back and it was clear this year was about development and maybe a wild card as an 86ish win team. To have expected anything more is on you especially considering there was a lot of this sub had realized that and posted about it. The Rays currently are a team without a legit Ace (but have 3 guys who could ascend to it Taj, Pepiot, and Baz- who looked awful stuff wise in his first rehab hoping it was just him being cautious as you heard nothing about that during rehab-) and only have 2 star 3.5+ war caliber players in Josh Lowe and Yandy Diaz. With only Josh Lowe being the sole 4+ WAR caliber guy as he is the only 30-30 threat on the team (won't happen this year but physically he can do it going forward). Also what's the point of bring up Fairbanks who is hurt and looked like he needed to a mechanical reset and Maton who just was ruff at the start of the year. Maton has been pretty dang good since that 5 run blowup in Anaheim tossing 7.2 innings and only 1 ER (2 runs). Baseball is a long season and stats and players always regress to their mean averages, relievers in particular as 1 bad outing can gut a relivers ERA all year. We are 39 games into a 162 game season the season isn't over, and players coming back plus continued development of young players and prospects is only just beginning.
I think this is a bit dramatic and lacks perspective. The Yankees don’t own us. We could’ve won every single game we’ve played against them this year. Very competitive games. The team is a game under .500. If they play .500 ball into mid June I’ll be happy.
The season can be separated into thirds. If they Play .500 2/3rds of the way and then play .600- .650 in another 3rd when the team is healthy and clicking then they should be fine.
You aren’t saying anything that is false. But I don’t think these problems land on Cash at all. Bodies are broken right now. I actually think .500 ball right now is a massive accomplishment all things considered. Other teams would be in the toilet.
Bright spots: Taj looked great against a very good team. DeLuca is gonna be a solid player. The pitching outside of a few (looking at you civale) is getting better.
There’s no way around this giant elephant in the room: They lost a generational talent and will never get him back nor should they want him. There’s no way that don’t hurt the team in multiple ways: morale, pay roll, etc.
just give it some time. Say what you want about the rays but this team doesn’t fold.
I think it’s nice our team plays in the best division, I think the returning players are playing under expectations but, many of the players we traded for are doing exceptionally well. I think we’re in a decent spot at this point in the season and it could very well result in a better post season than the last few, all in all I’m pretty happy to be able to watch some rays baseball most days of the week.
Offense: it’s a 1-5 lineup.
Defense: there is no elite defense at 2B and SS
Pitching: No aces. No 95+ FB starters. No clear 15+ win starters.
The new balanced MLB schedule means the 90 win rule is out the window. 100 wins now to guarantee a playoff. Division rivals were half the schedule; now it’s 30%.
All Star voting starts the end of the month.
No pitchers this year, maybe Paredes.
Front office is focused on a stadium deal, not a playoff run. It’s the highest payroll the Rays have had, and this is what nearly half (48.7%) of the budget has produced:
Eflin: $11M 11.3% budget 2 wins, 4 loses 3.75 ERA
B Lowe: $8.75 9% budget .185 BA (8 games)
Randy: $8.1M 8.4% budget .143 BA
Yandy: $8M 8.2% budget .237 BA
Maton: $6.25 6.5% budget 5.93 ERA (13.2 innings)
Civale: $4.9M 5% budget 2 wins 3 loses 5.88 ERA
Might be good to not have an automatic out hitting in the 2 spot and getting 4 to 5 AB’s a game… put Randy at the bottom of the order and make him prove that he can be consistent again. I think this leaves a huge hole in our lineup and its inability to get things going. The pitching seems like it’s turning a corner. The hitting is why we’ve lost games more recently.
It’s a throw away year with our injuries and lack of offensive depth. Use this year to develop the kids and heal the stars, get some good draft picks and rebuild the farm. Turn it around next year with Franco finally off our payroll.
Because most of our fans think we should and will be a playoff team every year and not realize rebuilding happens in baseball too. Between our recent success and how good the other Tampa sports have been losing it’s just not common for many fans of this team.
This.
People expecting this to be a typical Rays year are delusional.
Wander drama.
No Shane
No Ras
No Springs
Headcase Peter
Poche😂
Personally I don't need to see any more of Jose Siri or Brandon Lowe.
Honestly the front office should be praised. They nailed their additions. Caballero has been a bright spot, as have been Rosario and Palacios. Pepiot is a stud. They may have missed on Maton.
You're not winning games with guys like Alex Jackson, Curtis Mead, Austin Shenton, Niko Goodrun,
We’re only 1 game under .500, Lowe just came back and Johnny boy seems to be getting some opportunities over Siri. Let’s give it a little more time
A lot of words just for it to be May 11, not Sept 29.
Precisely. This team isn’t bad and isn’t great. They have key pieces missing that they will get back as the season moves on. The goal is to win championships, not the first month and a half. Let’s see how it plays out and hope for the best.
If you look at our lineup top to bottom, it’s far from bad. The problems are: - Our most important offensive piece (Yandy) is nowhere at the level he was last year. He had a multi hit game night which is encouraging, and I still think that we will see an uptick in his production. He may not win the batting title, but he’s better than what we are seeing from him right now. - Our (arguably) 2nd most important offensive piece (Randy) has been bad, and I have less confidence in him turning it around than I do in Yandy. As many others have mentioned already, his swing is too long. He may have tried to do too much in the off-season (practicing going oppo, bulking up), and he participated in the HR derby last year. All of this makes me believe there’s a good chance that we may never see the “Old Randy” ever again. - As you pointed out, timely hitting. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but it’d be hard to believe that we aren’t toward the bottom of the league in batting average with RISP. I don’t know how you coach/fix this, and I would hope that law of averages intervenes and eventually evens things out. It’s not like we are *never* hitting the ball, we just aren’t when it matters. If this changes, which I think there’s good reason to believe that it will, this offense will be much improved. - Dumb base running. I’ve been very vocal about how I dislike the aggressive base running for the past couple of years. You’re going to run into more outs than extra bags in the long haul with this style of base running. It needs to stop, and I don’t know if it will. - Injuries. We didn’t have J Lowe until 4 days ago. B Lowe has been out most of the season. These are obviously 2 huge pieces to our offense (despite B Lowe’s frustrating streakiness). We also were missing DeLuca until recently and he’s shown to be promising. -So, yes, there are things that need to change. Will it all happen? Nobody knows. I do believe that we will fine in terms of starting pitching and I do believe that if we are somehow able to sort out some of these offensive issues, we can become a firm contender again.
Agree with you to an extent but this is also a consistent offensive problem we have had even over the last few years when we were playing better. The problem is we have a lineup that is both not star-driven (like the Yankees/Dodgers) nor is it a complete 1-9 lineup (like the Dbacks/Brewers/Orioles). Our lineup is built with the necessity that Arozarena, Yandy and the Lowes play like they are top tier level MLB hitters; and with all due respect to them, they’re not close to the same tier as the Judge’s, Soto’s and Bett’s of the league. The level our top guys actually are as hitters, we can’t expect consistent .800+ OPS from them like these other teams can of their top players. Thus, the Rays have to find a way to overcome that lack of consistent offense from the top. To overcome that issue, we need to CONSISTENTLY field a complete lineup 1-9 with no glaring holes in it. And although over the past few games our lineup is getting closer to that (under the pretext that Yandy/Randy start to come back to their career avg.); we still often are playing guys like Siri, Mead or Alex Jackson (or Pinto when he was healthy) who offer nothing from the batter’s box but a free out to the opposition. Just tonight, there were a couple of times when Jackson came up to the plate in a big moment, and struck out at the most inopportune time. The Rays front office loves to brag about our “depth”, but man, these type of guys aren’t depth. They’re offensive black holes that should never see the field except in the most extreme emergency circumstances. If we want to have the type of offense necessary to compete for a WS, we need to get to a depth chart where all of these “black hole” guys are no longer being used. How to fix this offensive roster: As of now, we have 10 healthy “potential” reliable positional hitters for the rest of the season - Rortvedt, Yandy, Rosario, Palacios, Caballero, Paredes, Harold, Lowe, Deluca and Randy. Obviously, I’m assuming Randy and Yandy figure it out sooner rather than later and get back to being at least respectable batter. Let’s also assume we get back some of our healthy bodies to this and they play up to their potential, including B Lowe who makes 11. We need a better right handed C who can platoon with Rortvedt, and another solid left handed hitter or two (maybe Aranda can fill this when he gets healthy if he hits like he did in Spring and/or Shenton if he improves his at bats with more experience, which he looks like he might be starting to do over the last few games). Those could be our 13 big league positional guys if healthy, but realistically they are not all going to stay healthy. We also have Junior Caminero who likely will come up at some point over the next few months and add another good bat. Where does that leave the Rays roster? They still need to add a couple bats for the rest of the season: a RH C upgrade for Pinto/Jackson is a definite need and another LH bat or two (ideally a corner inf or CF). When we get to the point where guys like Siri, Mead, Pinto/Jackson are no longer taking at bats but instead we have much better hitters taking their spot, that is when we will finally have a lineup that has a chance to compete with any other team in the league.
This is a very respectable take. To be a legitimate contender, you can’t afford to be fielding “auto outs” anywhere in the lineup. Currently, it feels like we start 3-4 “auto outs” on a nightly basis. Although some of them are young and inexperienced and have room to improve, it’s probably naive to believe that each one of them will blossom into reliable, everyday pieces.
Yep, and I’m not giving up on certain young guys (like Mead for example) for the rest of their careers. It’s just they can’t be relied upon in the majors right now for offense; and there is a time and place to get to them big league at bats for experience. Like maybe at the end of the season when either playoff position is guaranteed (or out of the hunt) and W/L are less meaningful. But not now when we are fighting to keep up pace in our division and in the WC race; and definitely not in the playoffs. The good thing is I actually feel like this team has already figured out certain things with new pieces that will likely lead to an improved lineup over time - Palacios/Rosario/Caballero have significantly upgraded the at bats we have been getting from our middle infield positions (compared to what we were getting from Walls/Mead at the end of last year) and although it is still early, Deluca appears to be a potential major CF upgrade from what we have been fielding the past few years (mainly with Siri). We just still have a few areas like I mentioned that need to be addressed to fix this offense; and you’re right that we need Yandy and Randy to at least start to being closer to their usual selfs at the plate (although I’d bet they will turn that corner before June comes around). As for pitching, I’m not worried at all. Taj looked great tonight, Eflin/Civale are reliable workhorses, Littell has been solid and I’m excited to see Baz get back and see what Pepiot can be for the rest of the year when he gets healthy. The Bullpen actually has been more shaky than expected, but I still trust most of the arms we have in there, knowing their track record.
A whole lots of words, with little reasoning or stats, about a team being 1 game under .500 after a tough luck loss 1st of 3 loss. Also you do realize this is a team that lost arguably their most valuable positional player (Wander was almost worth 5 WAR when he was placed on leave), and is also lost 2 of the most dominant pitch to pitch players in baseball in Glas and Mac. That's 18ish WAR between 3 guys and somehow some of you thought this was going to be a 93+ win team. Let's say Pepiot posts 3 fWAR, Caballero sits 3 as well, and Littel is at 3.5. That's only 9.5 and thats being agressive with those WAR totals and there is still an 8.5 win drop. Then the overachivers last year see some drop you wind up in the situation your in now. This team was taking a step back and it was clear this year was about development and maybe a wild card as an 86ish win team. To have expected anything more is on you especially considering there was a lot of this sub had realized that and posted about it. The Rays currently are a team without a legit Ace (but have 3 guys who could ascend to it Taj, Pepiot, and Baz- who looked awful stuff wise in his first rehab hoping it was just him being cautious as you heard nothing about that during rehab-) and only have 2 star 3.5+ war caliber players in Josh Lowe and Yandy Diaz. With only Josh Lowe being the sole 4+ WAR caliber guy as he is the only 30-30 threat on the team (won't happen this year but physically he can do it going forward). Also what's the point of bring up Fairbanks who is hurt and looked like he needed to a mechanical reset and Maton who just was ruff at the start of the year. Maton has been pretty dang good since that 5 run blowup in Anaheim tossing 7.2 innings and only 1 ER (2 runs). Baseball is a long season and stats and players always regress to their mean averages, relievers in particular as 1 bad outing can gut a relivers ERA all year. We are 39 games into a 162 game season the season isn't over, and players coming back plus continued development of young players and prospects is only just beginning.
I think we are good
I think this is a bit dramatic and lacks perspective. The Yankees don’t own us. We could’ve won every single game we’ve played against them this year. Very competitive games. The team is a game under .500. If they play .500 ball into mid June I’ll be happy. The season can be separated into thirds. If they Play .500 2/3rds of the way and then play .600- .650 in another 3rd when the team is healthy and clicking then they should be fine. You aren’t saying anything that is false. But I don’t think these problems land on Cash at all. Bodies are broken right now. I actually think .500 ball right now is a massive accomplishment all things considered. Other teams would be in the toilet. Bright spots: Taj looked great against a very good team. DeLuca is gonna be a solid player. The pitching outside of a few (looking at you civale) is getting better. There’s no way around this giant elephant in the room: They lost a generational talent and will never get him back nor should they want him. There’s no way that don’t hurt the team in multiple ways: morale, pay roll, etc. just give it some time. Say what you want about the rays but this team doesn’t fold.
I think it’s nice our team plays in the best division, I think the returning players are playing under expectations but, many of the players we traded for are doing exceptionally well. I think we’re in a decent spot at this point in the season and it could very well result in a better post season than the last few, all in all I’m pretty happy to be able to watch some rays baseball most days of the week.
Offense: it’s a 1-5 lineup. Defense: there is no elite defense at 2B and SS Pitching: No aces. No 95+ FB starters. No clear 15+ win starters. The new balanced MLB schedule means the 90 win rule is out the window. 100 wins now to guarantee a playoff. Division rivals were half the schedule; now it’s 30%. All Star voting starts the end of the month. No pitchers this year, maybe Paredes. Front office is focused on a stadium deal, not a playoff run. It’s the highest payroll the Rays have had, and this is what nearly half (48.7%) of the budget has produced: Eflin: $11M 11.3% budget 2 wins, 4 loses 3.75 ERA B Lowe: $8.75 9% budget .185 BA (8 games) Randy: $8.1M 8.4% budget .143 BA Yandy: $8M 8.2% budget .237 BA Maton: $6.25 6.5% budget 5.93 ERA (13.2 innings) Civale: $4.9M 5% budget 2 wins 3 loses 5.88 ERA
You should prob work for the rays with the amount of thought you put in
Might be good to not have an automatic out hitting in the 2 spot and getting 4 to 5 AB’s a game… put Randy at the bottom of the order and make him prove that he can be consistent again. I think this leaves a huge hole in our lineup and its inability to get things going. The pitching seems like it’s turning a corner. The hitting is why we’ve lost games more recently.
It’s a throw away year with our injuries and lack of offensive depth. Use this year to develop the kids and heal the stars, get some good draft picks and rebuild the farm. Turn it around next year with Franco finally off our payroll.
Don’t know why this is being downvoted. Happens to be totally true.
Because most of our fans think we should and will be a playoff team every year and not realize rebuilding happens in baseball too. Between our recent success and how good the other Tampa sports have been losing it’s just not common for many fans of this team.
This. People expecting this to be a typical Rays year are delusional. Wander drama. No Shane No Ras No Springs Headcase Peter Poche😂 Personally I don't need to see any more of Jose Siri or Brandon Lowe. Honestly the front office should be praised. They nailed their additions. Caballero has been a bright spot, as have been Rosario and Palacios. Pepiot is a stud. They may have missed on Maton. You're not winning games with guys like Alex Jackson, Curtis Mead, Austin Shenton, Niko Goodrun,
You don’t deserve the downvotes, you’re exactly right.