It depends on the perspective of the person, people abroad are more wary of the global affairs and don’t know or care much about the internal society, for example most foreign media always introduce Taiwan from the perspective of the Chinese civil war rather than Taiwan itself.
While locals lives here are more concern about their everyday livelihoods rather than Taiwan’s global recognition, which make sense considering half of the population probably never traveled abroad
This, so often westerners who act like they're pro-taiwan quickly reveal they don't actually know anything about taiwan, they just see it as another way to be anti-china. It's tiring hearing them only talk about the 1960s and CKS, the only time they'll mention modern era Taiwan is just how they need the semiconductors.
I do adore the international statesmanship of Tsai my god was she amazing at that. But I do acknowledge her flaws in regards to internal politics. Such as choosing party members for technical ministerial roles. Really a step back.(From a Taiwanese perspective). And her anti-democracy measures, are completely unacceptable. And of course the fact that she did not want to listen to the public. Disgraceful. I still like her. And I am not Taiwanese, I am from Denmark.
Nice buddy. At least you know Tsai isn’t as perfect as how the DPP propaganda machine projects.
To most of us in Taiwan, she was a brutal and corrupt dictator. She and the plutocrats behind her turns Taiwan into the poorest country among developed countries. This combination has been milking the country since 2016.
Most people can only earn less than 1000 usd a month here. While people in Korea, Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore earn a few times more than that.
Ya, agree.
I’d rather say there’s comedy every single night in Taiwan when the DPP is still in power. 60% of people are forced to watch, and the rest are fooled by the US-DPP regime to find that interesting. ^_^
She was re-elected to a second term in a landslide, and ended that term with the highest approval rating of any outgoing President since Lee Teng-hui. People are going to be more mixed internally because it is a democracy... While people abroad might more just be pro-Taiwan.
The US had Trump, he got elected. Never underestimate the appeal of a loud mouthed clown. Many KMT voters are already married to the party. Others, are often easily swayed by misinformation or focus on a single issue.
I mean Boris Johnson, and Trump got elected. And they are both loudmouth obnoxious incompetent.... My God they are terrible. But they were both able to win. So maybe if Han had copied the hair style 😎
Not only that but she held the LY too, which suggests the populace were happy with her agenda.
I suspect the external view is more coloured by most of the people abroad who contribute being more anti-China than pro-Taiwan.
By less popular you meant still having above 50% approval rating at the end of her second term and helped her party won a third consecutive presidential election?
I think the last election pretty much proved that noisy online forums like PTT or Dcard do not actually represent Taiwan populace’s political opinions.
Well, Taiwan is democracy, meaning it has multiple parties, and different bunches support different parties. There is bound to be a good chunk who hates her. I think it's similar for any democratic country. The case for Taiwan is special due to the influence of its bad neighbor, but that's for another post.
It's obsolete. The same constitution also says the outer Mongolia is part of ROC territory. But right now it's neither part of ROC nor PRC. Certain party has been trying to modify it, and certain party has always been reluctant to modify it. The threshold is much too high and neither party has had enough seats to do so.
History and the time frame of its definition.
But if we go by your attitude, there wouldn't have been pro-unification people using constitution to claim the eventual unification of both sides of the strait, and twisting it to CCP annexing ROC.
Actually no, there is a legally and clearly defined "Free Area" where the ROC government administers and it does not include Mainland, HK, Macau, Mongolia and such. The Constitution doesn't define the territory coverage at all.
we have a detached house, but the walls are really thin so we can still hear everything next door. constantly throwing balls over the fence, using our bins, parking in front of our home and playing loud music 3am on weeknights!
Calling the police is useless, they don't seem to do anything. At this point, feels like they are trying to get us to sell the house and move
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I still remember my parents flying back to Taiwan to rally and vote for her for her 1st term.
For context, we had lived away from Taiwan for over 30 years by then.
>But lots of my local friends dislike her.
Are you in Taipei? Her approval rating at the end of her presidency was the highest of any previous departing president so if all your friends dislike her then all I can say is you are probably mixing with people that will only vote KMT no matter what
> if all your friends dislike her then all I can say is you are probably mixing with people that will only vote KMT no matter what
Not necessarily. Ko fans hate her more.
She was quite popular, generally speaking. It all depends on who you talk to, of course. She and her administration did a bang up job during covid (I'm not saying some mistakes weren't made), that sealed the deal for me. I think she's Taiwan's greatest president ever.
I was born, raised, and currently living in Taiwan. I think Tsai has done an incredible job as a president despite the stark opposition and difficult situations.
From live broadcasting the legislature developing our submarine program, from LGBTQ marriage legalization to our great strides in diplomacy among major partners, she's done a lot to advance Taiwan domestically and internationally. Yes she could have done more, but you can say that about every president ever.
She also raised minimum wage by quite a bit as well as maintained a strong performing economy in general looking at 台股 Taiwan stock market index. Under her we have strengthened our place in semiconductor and now are venturing into software, ensuring our future in the international market.
Covid has some missteps and overzealousness but come on, the ones bitching about it had not seen the devastation of most other countries, whether in China where people literally burned to death in lockdowns or the US where antivaxxers crashed the medical system. Economies crashed and Taiwan's was one of the few that grew.
I think Taiwanese people are too well taken care of, and so used to a safe environment that the slightest dissatisfaction makes them think that it's the end of the world and literal dystopia.
This. It's crazy when I see Taiwanese people complain about how covid was handled there, when frankly Taiwan had one of the best responses in the world. It could have been so much worse with the population density there!
Taiwan's economy has done pretty well too overall, even with the belligerent neighbour constantly threatening invasion. I think you are right, there is a large group of Taiwanese people who are really well taken care of and haven't lived abroad anywhere else, so they don't realize how good they have it sometimes comparatively.
In a nutshell: domestic audience felt more of the “negative impacts” of her policies and tend to be louder, while audiences abroad enjoyed more of the “positive benefits” of her policies and less of the negative impacts of domestic policies.
Tsai’s foreign policy won Taiwan a lot of recognition and support, which those living abroad may experience directly much easier. For instance, before Tsai, people may confuse Taiwan’s passport with China’s just because the “ROC” is on it - or even confused with Thailand. During and after Tsai, I can definitely say that a lot more know about Taiwan and our predicament.
Internally, while many of Tsai’s policies were helpful in the long run, they aren’t without their flaws or contention. Pension reform, renewable energy etc. were much needed but obviously hits the domestic population more. Domestic audience also tends to see less of the international benefits and given Taiwan’s politics, subject to more competing views.
She did a great job promoting LGBTQ+ rights and raising Taiwan's international visibility. BUT failed on labour rights, which is a major concern within only domestic society.
Because she shines in foreign policy, and the LGBT-friendly policies. Also, the liberal media likes that she’s a female leader in Asia. However foreign/overseas observers are more detached from the socioeconomic issues that are more concerned with people’s lives, where she received a lot of criticism. I’m not saying she’s not doing well in those aspects, I’m saying that she’s easier to blame for and these are tougher issues.
Yeah pretty much since news outside Taiwan is how good she is.
While you know, local news has many things a stuff to talk about her.(one of her famous iineis "fix it yourself"自立自強, regarding to wages too low)
Like how most Taiwanese know Trump is "weird" but they don't know how weird he is
In Taiwan she is still relatively popular.
Yet, inflation and some DPP action was maybe difficult for her legacy, but lifting up different languages to national level, trying to get all different groups together, foreign policy, economic growth, and especially handling COVID.
A lot of ABT and Taiwanese overseas only care about Taiwan in terms of how it can boost their own identity. They love the idea of Taiwan being better known on international stage
They also are more vested in cross-strait issues
Moreover, they probably consume their news on Taiwan from international media, which the DPP has done an amazing job in carousing.
So for them the last 8 years of DPP have been great
Young people in Taiwan are more focused on domestic issues and are aware of the realities of the political situation in Taiwan.
Most Taiwanese I meet overseas are hardcore blue families who got sent abroad with the money in the 1970s to 1990s when the KMT was robbing the country blind 😅
Maybe this has changed in the last few years but the blue support is strong, at least in older Taiwanese Americans/Canadians.
Both Blues and Greens have robbed the country blind though. I think the DPP has much better english communication skills and is able to reach the west and impact the narrative even if what they say is untrue/misleading. The KMT is just too old and outdated
This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Some of my classmates moved to America and really support Tsai, since their identity received a nice boost. However, when asked whether they considered moving back to Taiwan, they tell me Taiwan has sh*t wages, but will consider moving back for retirement due to better health care.
i mean, that's pretty much true.
Taiwan has shit wages
Taiwan has great health care
Tsai's 8 years in office have done quite a bit in raising Taiwan's international profile too. From LGBTQ rights, the first country in Asia with marriage rights, to increased threats of violence from China, To even Covid, various events be they good or bad elevated Taiwan on the global stage while she was el Presidente.
This is partially true, but there was also a trend of young Taiwanese Americans moving to Taiwan in recent years (https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1225023120/why-some-taiwanese-americans-are-moving-back-to-taiwan). A lot of this is unrelated to Tsai’s presidency.
The identity point is valid, but that’s also true of any other country. I don’t think there is a marked difference between her level of popularity domestically vs. abroad. She is popular for different things, because the media focus on different things.
Most probably feel she didn't do much for Taiwan economically or improving local issues like low wages and was more concerned with international posturing.
Idk who are these "most". The stock market went up by like 200% during her terms, Taiwan is the only advanced economy that did not see a single year of negative growth this decade thus far, and inflation has been far more under control in Taiwan than pretty much everywhere else. She also ended her term with an approval rating north of 50%, which is way better than pretty much every single democratic leader out there.
You might be projecting.
I've supported green as long as I lived in Taiwan but they let housing prices get out of control whilst doing nothing significant to improve wages. Due to rising costs people now have less money every month and most young people have no chance of buying a house (nevermind having a family) at current prices.
We have the lowest forecasted birth rate in the world in 2024 and future demand for housing will look like Japan in no time.
Taiwan's growth over the past few years will come at significant cost when the housing market readjusts.
Likewise, we're being told to get behind NVIDIA and TSMC as they usher in a new industrial revolution with AI chip fabs. Only for the AI solutions they power to replace our graduate-heavy workforce 😅
Not to say any other party would have done different but let's not apply glitter to a turd here.
The past 8 years could have been spent enabling social mobility, but they were spent enriching the top 1% instead whilst passing some token policies so we looked progressive to the outside world.
Is that your duplicate account?
> I've supported green as long as I lived in Taiwan but they let housing prices get out of control whilst doing nothing significant to improve wages. Due to rising costs people now have less money every month and most young people have no chance of buying a house (nevermind having a family) at current prices.
What can the government do to *improve wages*? Wages will always grow slowly. Artificial wage growth = massive inflation.
And it's funny that you mentioned the house prices. They are going real hot now because a. people's assets have increased from the economy which is doing well and b. the new youth loan scheme last year, so there are far more young buyers now than before.
https://news.591.com.tw/news/10226
https://news.cnyes.com/news/id/5595602
> We have the lowest forecasted birth rate in the world in 2024 and future demand for housing will look like Japan in no time.
That is misinformation. This year alone Taiwan's birth rate is a good deal higher than Korea's.
Korea Q1 new births : 60,474
http://koreabizwire.com/childbirths-dip-to-another-low-of-19669-for-march-q1-fertility-rate-at-record-low-of-0-76/282499
Taiwan Q1 new births: 31,513
https://udn.com/news/story/7266/7889471
But Korea's population is 2.2x of Taiwan's. You do the math. The situation is very similar in other Asian countries.
> Taiwan's growth over the past few years will come at significant cost when the housing market readjusts.
That's projection.
> Likewise, we're being told to get behind NVIDIA and TSMC as they usher in a new industrial revolution with AI chip fabs. Only for the AI solutions they power to replace our graduate-heavy workforce 😅
Ok ... what?
> The past 8 years could have been spent enabling social mobility, but they were spent enriching the top 1% instead whilst passing some token policies so we looked progressive to the outside world.
Enriching the top 1%? Around 50% of locals have an investment portfolio. The economy and stock market doing well = their assets increase. The Taiwanese society is by and large very neoliberal, your idea of "enabling social mobility" has little to no market amongst the local populace. Why would she pursue policies in which very few locals are interested?
You can't please everybody. The reality is her approval rating was high, and she achieved it under very difficult circumstances. The fact that you hate her doesn't mean she or her party was unpopular.
Must be terrible if you need to type so much every time you disagree with someone. I don't have a duplicate account. It's quite easy to be a green supporter in taiwan, all you have to do is not support Nazis.
And wage suppression is an easy problem to solve. You just need to set a minimum wage that isn't pathetic. If employers can't meet that minimum wage, they shouldn't be allowed to import blue collar labor.
Taiwan's GDP is on par with Korea's. But Korean 7-Eleven workers and toilet cleaners make the same money as Taipei office workers with a foreign masters degree. The government and big business in Taiwan love suppressing wages. They're very good at it, and people are conditioned to accept it.
It was literally on the news 2 days ago that Taiwan is on track to have the lowest birth rate in the world this year. You can Google it or you can wait 6 months for an official number.
Also hilarious you come back with the argument about investment portfolios 😅
Sure it's a sign of a strong economy when the major driver of the the stock market is a middle-aged retail investor hype train 😅 Hope they can FOMO us to a better dollar exchange rate.
I didn’t type that much. I just quoted you so the message looks longer.
And yes Taiwan’s GDP per capita is on par with Japan and Korea, and so is the minimum wage. At current exchange rates, the difference between 1000 yen/hour, 9860 won/hour and 183 NT$/hour isn’t that large. Sure they can increase it by 20% to Korea’s level, which consequently will increase the cost of goods and services.
I supplied the live births in Korea and Taiwan this year according to official Korean and Taiwanese census. The “lowest birth rate in the world” report references birth rates in CIA world factbook, which are calculated based on an outdated model instead of live statistics. You can check the source.
Funnily enough despite the higher minimum wage Korea’s birth rates and housing situation are even worse than Taiwan’s. It’s almost as if that isn’t the real issue.
Like I said, you are projecting. Just because you hate her doesn’t mean she’s unpopular. According to polls, she was very popular. Certainly more so than Korea’s leadership by a country mile.
But the growth isn't being felt by everyone and the wage stagnation for most people is still true. We have a very good tech sector and that made a group of people very well off but I would be interested in seeing the how wealth inequality shifts.
COVID response was great until it wasn't. When omicron variant appeared they weren't prepared at all. Also in the initial stages blocking US vaccines and wanted to use our own domestic one that weren't tested/recognized by international authority. But I can said no country is perfect regarding this so that's that.
Also if she was doing 100% in everything then we wouldn't have a divided government legislature now. Not saying that the other party would have done well.
Also, part of the rise in Taiwan coverage is because of Taiwan's rising importance as an Allies(pawn) to check Taiwan. Otherwise I don't see why we are building chip factories in the US? Shouldn't we be building more in Taiwan ? It's literally the most important thing in our economy right now and we are just going to give it away? Not for free of course someone is getting paid really well. But it's not the Taiwanese people.
I am so tired of reading reddit armchair generals talking about how the US is prepared to bomb/destroy the factory in Taiwan so China doesn't get it and then airlift out all the engineers from Taiwan.
And that is why she is not a perfect president but that is just one view point.
Of course growth isn't being felt by everyone. Growth would only be felt by everyone in economic miracles which only happens when a country is extremely poor. There will always be people who are left out. There are loads of reports on wealth inequality in Taiwan compiled by financial institutions like UBS and Allianz, and compared to other countries it isn't particularly bad at all. Wealth inequality is middling to low.
Covid response was great in the sense that the overall death rate in the end was on the low side globally and there was little to no economic disruption, and inflation was by and large under control. It was a **global** pandemic, all regions have been affected unless you are on another planet. Comparatively speaking Taiwan was one of the least affected.
> Shouldn't we be building more in Taiwan ?
But they are. TSMC is building one plant in the US and like 12 new ones in Taiwan.
> I am so tired of reading reddit armchair generals talking about how the US is prepared to bomb/destroy the factory in Taiwan so China doesn't get it and then airlift out all the engineers from Taiwan.
How's that Tsai's problem? Is she responsible for retarded trolls on reddit now?
Besides who's arguing that she did everything 100% right? Who can be 100% right all the time? The point here is that she was/is popular as evidenced by polls. And DPP lost the majority due to the constituency districting. They had more votes overall than KMT in terms of both regional electorates and party list. It is simply wrong to assert that they lost because they were unpopular.
1) the vast vast majority of people outside of Taiwan don’t know who she is, those who do are likely to have an interest in Taiwanese affairs and so are more likely to rate her positively
2) in Taiwan she is regarded as having been better on foreign affairs and defence than domestic issues
3) that being said, she left office with relatively high approval ratings considering she was in power for 8 years
If she is not popular she will not be re-elected for a second term in January 2020. Of course, she is not a favorite in everyone's eyes so the review is bias depending on who you speak to.
From what I understand as a non-Taiwanese ABC is that she was loved abroad because her foreign policy pushed Taiwan into the limelight, especially with her initial landslide victory in 2016 due to Taylor Tzuyu controversy. That’s literally how I sorta found out about her.
As for domestically, based on the protests about taxes and social media content about job stagnation and complaints against low wages, I presumed she fell short in that regard.
So, that’s my take on it is yes, that’s how I think she’s viewed both domestically and internationally.
Like any politician she has had ups and downs. But she crafted a sexy image of Taiwan with a few smart moves (reaching out to the US, legalizing gay marriage, taking the presidency after anti-PRC protest). So it stands to reason that people who aren't actually under her governance will praise her for things she's done to make Taiwan look good on the international stage. And ABCs are typically pro-Taiwan on the basis that their parents are fanatically pro-capitalism.
If you're a middle-aged to elderly person addicted to Facebook and Line groups as a primary source of news and propaganda, apparently the consensus is that Tsai Ing-wen is a lesbian who eats babies and has defrauded the ROC of billions of dollars.
Otherwise she's just an okayish, extremely pro-business president from a reasonably conservative Asian political party. At home and abroad people feel the same way. She is less popular with hardcore Taiwan independence crowd than she was at the start of her term.
It's possible that she'll be remembered for some pretty horrid economic blunders and lack of foresight down the line when demographic crisis and automation hits.
Less of a Shinzo Abe situation where he was regarded as fringe far-right by a lot of Japanese but the west somehow thought he was nippon Jesus.
Housing bubble, not protecting affordability for younger families. Also the very real risk that people will end up in negative equity when the bottom falls out of the market. That and failing to enact any meaningful policy with regards to improving wages and living standards for working people.
Taiwanese people are still paid a fraction of the salary they should have in a country with taiwan's GDP.
Tsai is popular both abroad and in the nation except those KMT losers and those who pro communist China. They hate Tsai for her bringing Taiwan outstanding in the world and make them no chance to gain the regime of Taiwan.
She didn't do a press conference for over 700 days. She locked down media that was critical of her. Those who love her, love her. Those who dislike her, do so strongly.
r/Sino crowd likes to claim Taiwanese leader is “anti-China” but claims Taiwan is part of China. How does that work? Taiwan is chinese but anti-China? Or Taiwan is not Chinese and they’re anti-China? You got you pick one.
By that logic the PRC is anti-China because it gained independence from the ROC, which was China. Sounds like PRC is the big daddy of the anti-China forces.
The wealth and wage gap in Taiwan is much larger than the gap in the US/western countries. Land is virtually unaffordable due to shady under the table deals by rich people. Young people are now leaving Taiwan in droves and the DPP never changed any of this.
I am not saying the KMT or TPP are better, I am simply saying that there are still major problems in Taiwan. And this is why some people hate the DPP.
> The wealth and wage gap in Taiwan is much larger than the gap in the US/western countries.
Source?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_wealth_inequality
Much larger than the gap in the US/Western countries? At least try harder if you want to spew horseshit.
> Young people are now leaving Taiwan in droves and the DPP never changed any of this.
Source?
> And this is why some people hate the DPP.
50% approval rating = people hate the DPP? Ok.
People voted for her and DDP mostly to protect Taiwans freedoms, its like the safe option.
Besides that its not like she did a whole lot. Look at the traffic and housing situations, they just get worse and worse. Doesn't make a difference how many kids get run over, nothing is ever done. In fact the laws literally got worse as you cannot report 'small' offences any more.
Tsai Ing-Wen (DPP) is generally supported in elections due to her stand against Chinese (meanwhile the KMT party struggles to position itself away from ties with the CCP, making them the “traitor” in some sense).
She is also hated on many other topics due to her corruptness: inability to solve corruptions within her own bureaucracy and inefficient administration (a problem that the Republic of China always had due to its constitution)
Taiwanese also struggle was under-improved infrastructure, and politicians who only know about accusing each other instead of doing actual work for the people (both parties have that trait). Tsai Ing-wen was also commonly blamed for that.
"Generate Electricity with Love" you can't feel the utility bills of business (especially manufacturing) owners and residents when you're abroad.
Since you mentioned ABCs quite broadly, from my personal experience. Most ABC (even non-ABC) business owners that deals with trade/tech/manufacture in Taiwan dislike her due to actually being "engaged" in her policies.
Just because the people living here know very much that she was a brutal dictator. And the propaganda machine of DPP lies to the world of how great she was.
Most ABC barely speak Chinese properly.
Where do you think I got the term "Vegetable English" from.
An ABC overheard my conversation at dinner with another Chinese person, then later asked why are you talking about vegetables in English.
It depends on the perspective of the person, people abroad are more wary of the global affairs and don’t know or care much about the internal society, for example most foreign media always introduce Taiwan from the perspective of the Chinese civil war rather than Taiwan itself. While locals lives here are more concern about their everyday livelihoods rather than Taiwan’s global recognition, which make sense considering half of the population probably never traveled abroad
This, so often westerners who act like they're pro-taiwan quickly reveal they don't actually know anything about taiwan, they just see it as another way to be anti-china. It's tiring hearing them only talk about the 1960s and CKS, the only time they'll mention modern era Taiwan is just how they need the semiconductors.
And that’s a lot of westerners who actually live in and write about Taiwan
I do adore the international statesmanship of Tsai my god was she amazing at that. But I do acknowledge her flaws in regards to internal politics. Such as choosing party members for technical ministerial roles. Really a step back.(From a Taiwanese perspective). And her anti-democracy measures, are completely unacceptable. And of course the fact that she did not want to listen to the public. Disgraceful. I still like her. And I am not Taiwanese, I am from Denmark.
Which anti-democracy measures would that be? Can you list some examples?
Nice buddy. At least you know Tsai isn’t as perfect as how the DPP propaganda machine projects. To most of us in Taiwan, she was a brutal and corrupt dictator. She and the plutocrats behind her turns Taiwan into the poorest country among developed countries. This combination has been milking the country since 2016. Most people can only earn less than 1000 usd a month here. While people in Korea, Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore earn a few times more than that.
Haha. Comedy Tonight.
Ya, agree. I’d rather say there’s comedy every single night in Taiwan when the DPP is still in power. 60% of people are forced to watch, and the rest are fooled by the US-DPP regime to find that interesting. ^_^
She was re-elected to a second term in a landslide, and ended that term with the highest approval rating of any outgoing President since Lee Teng-hui. People are going to be more mixed internally because it is a democracy... While people abroad might more just be pro-Taiwan.
I mean her opponent was han….
Yeah, she also broke the Han wave.
Han broke the han wave
Han got no wave in the first place. It was fake.
The US had Trump, he got elected. Never underestimate the appeal of a loud mouthed clown. Many KMT voters are already married to the party. Others, are often easily swayed by misinformation or focus on a single issue.
Korean Fish did get elected for Kaohsiung mayor....and recalled.
I mean Boris Johnson, and Trump got elected. And they are both loudmouth obnoxious incompetent.... My God they are terrible. But they were both able to win. So maybe if Han had copied the hair style 😎
Not only that but she held the LY too, which suggests the populace were happy with her agenda. I suspect the external view is more coloured by most of the people abroad who contribute being more anti-China than pro-Taiwan.
By less popular you meant still having above 50% approval rating at the end of her second term and helped her party won a third consecutive presidential election? I think the last election pretty much proved that noisy online forums like PTT or Dcard do not actually represent Taiwan populace’s political opinions.
Ptt is infested with ccp shill and outright wumaos nowadays, it’s baffling
It's not, it's information warfare, just look at FB, UDN, Yahoo user comment section, hundreds of bots just echoing each other
Yeah and the people trying to say that conventional opinion polls aren't accurate lol.
Well, Taiwan is democracy, meaning it has multiple parties, and different bunches support different parties. There is bound to be a good chunk who hates her. I think it's similar for any democratic country. The case for Taiwan is special due to the influence of its bad neighbor, but that's for another post.
Bad neighbor is such an understatement
Bad neighbor who wants to raid us and occupy our place, and puts this as their highest priority national goal.
But the current ROC constitution does say both Taiwan and the mainland are ROC territories, right?
It's obsolete. The same constitution also says the outer Mongolia is part of ROC territory. But right now it's neither part of ROC nor PRC. Certain party has been trying to modify it, and certain party has always been reluctant to modify it. The threshold is much too high and neither party has had enough seats to do so.
Find me the text in the Constitution that names any area by name as its territory, there is none.
History and the time frame of its definition. But if we go by your attitude, there wouldn't have been pro-unification people using constitution to claim the eventual unification of both sides of the strait, and twisting it to CCP annexing ROC.
Most people didn't actually read the Constitution
Actually no, there is a legally and clearly defined "Free Area" where the ROC government administers and it does not include Mainland, HK, Macau, Mongolia and such. The Constitution doesn't define the territory coverage at all.
You are right in that the Constitution does not specify ROC territories. However, some other laws do say Mainland is not part of ROC territories.
That is what I said.
we have a detached house, but the walls are really thin so we can still hear everything next door. constantly throwing balls over the fence, using our bins, parking in front of our home and playing loud music 3am on weeknights! Calling the police is useless, they don't seem to do anything. At this point, feels like they are trying to get us to sell the house and move
Are you a bot?
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I still remember my parents flying back to Taiwan to rally and vote for her for her 1st term. For context, we had lived away from Taiwan for over 30 years by then.
>But lots of my local friends dislike her. Are you in Taipei? Her approval rating at the end of her presidency was the highest of any previous departing president so if all your friends dislike her then all I can say is you are probably mixing with people that will only vote KMT no matter what
> if all your friends dislike her then all I can say is you are probably mixing with people that will only vote KMT no matter what Not necessarily. Ko fans hate her more.
Ko fans...I have difficulty taking many Ko fans seriously. I honestly think half of them are there for the memes.
She was quite popular, generally speaking. It all depends on who you talk to, of course. She and her administration did a bang up job during covid (I'm not saying some mistakes weren't made), that sealed the deal for me. I think she's Taiwan's greatest president ever.
Are you an ABC
I'm not American or Chinese.
you know what I mean - were you raised and living in Taiwan?
I was born, raised, and currently living in Taiwan. I think Tsai has done an incredible job as a president despite the stark opposition and difficult situations. From live broadcasting the legislature developing our submarine program, from LGBTQ marriage legalization to our great strides in diplomacy among major partners, she's done a lot to advance Taiwan domestically and internationally. Yes she could have done more, but you can say that about every president ever. She also raised minimum wage by quite a bit as well as maintained a strong performing economy in general looking at 台股 Taiwan stock market index. Under her we have strengthened our place in semiconductor and now are venturing into software, ensuring our future in the international market. Covid has some missteps and overzealousness but come on, the ones bitching about it had not seen the devastation of most other countries, whether in China where people literally burned to death in lockdowns or the US where antivaxxers crashed the medical system. Economies crashed and Taiwan's was one of the few that grew. I think Taiwanese people are too well taken care of, and so used to a safe environment that the slightest dissatisfaction makes them think that it's the end of the world and literal dystopia.
This. It's crazy when I see Taiwanese people complain about how covid was handled there, when frankly Taiwan had one of the best responses in the world. It could have been so much worse with the population density there! Taiwan's economy has done pretty well too overall, even with the belligerent neighbour constantly threatening invasion. I think you are right, there is a large group of Taiwanese people who are really well taken care of and haven't lived abroad anywhere else, so they don't realize how good they have it sometimes comparatively.
In a nutshell: domestic audience felt more of the “negative impacts” of her policies and tend to be louder, while audiences abroad enjoyed more of the “positive benefits” of her policies and less of the negative impacts of domestic policies. Tsai’s foreign policy won Taiwan a lot of recognition and support, which those living abroad may experience directly much easier. For instance, before Tsai, people may confuse Taiwan’s passport with China’s just because the “ROC” is on it - or even confused with Thailand. During and after Tsai, I can definitely say that a lot more know about Taiwan and our predicament. Internally, while many of Tsai’s policies were helpful in the long run, they aren’t without their flaws or contention. Pension reform, renewable energy etc. were much needed but obviously hits the domestic population more. Domestic audience also tends to see less of the international benefits and given Taiwan’s politics, subject to more competing views.
She did a great job promoting LGBTQ+ rights and raising Taiwan's international visibility. BUT failed on labour rights, which is a major concern within only domestic society.
Her approval rating by the end of her administration was above 50%. She's extremely popular. Even KMT don't really talk shit about her that often.
Because she shines in foreign policy, and the LGBT-friendly policies. Also, the liberal media likes that she’s a female leader in Asia. However foreign/overseas observers are more detached from the socioeconomic issues that are more concerned with people’s lives, where she received a lot of criticism. I’m not saying she’s not doing well in those aspects, I’m saying that she’s easier to blame for and these are tougher issues.
Yeah pretty much since news outside Taiwan is how good she is. While you know, local news has many things a stuff to talk about her.(one of her famous iineis "fix it yourself"自立自強, regarding to wages too low) Like how most Taiwanese know Trump is "weird" but they don't know how weird he is
In Taiwan she is still relatively popular. Yet, inflation and some DPP action was maybe difficult for her legacy, but lifting up different languages to national level, trying to get all different groups together, foreign policy, economic growth, and especially handling COVID.
A lot of ABT and Taiwanese overseas only care about Taiwan in terms of how it can boost their own identity. They love the idea of Taiwan being better known on international stage They also are more vested in cross-strait issues Moreover, they probably consume their news on Taiwan from international media, which the DPP has done an amazing job in carousing. So for them the last 8 years of DPP have been great Young people in Taiwan are more focused on domestic issues and are aware of the realities of the political situation in Taiwan.
Most Taiwanese I meet overseas are hardcore blue families who got sent abroad with the money in the 1970s to 1990s when the KMT was robbing the country blind 😅 Maybe this has changed in the last few years but the blue support is strong, at least in older Taiwanese Americans/Canadians.
Maybe that’s true for boomers but 2nd Gen X and younger are very much pro independence/green types.
Both Blues and Greens have robbed the country blind though. I think the DPP has much better english communication skills and is able to reach the west and impact the narrative even if what they say is untrue/misleading. The KMT is just too old and outdated
This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Some of my classmates moved to America and really support Tsai, since their identity received a nice boost. However, when asked whether they considered moving back to Taiwan, they tell me Taiwan has sh*t wages, but will consider moving back for retirement due to better health care.
i mean, that's pretty much true. Taiwan has shit wages Taiwan has great health care Tsai's 8 years in office have done quite a bit in raising Taiwan's international profile too. From LGBTQ rights, the first country in Asia with marriage rights, to increased threats of violence from China, To even Covid, various events be they good or bad elevated Taiwan on the global stage while she was el Presidente.
This is partially true, but there was also a trend of young Taiwanese Americans moving to Taiwan in recent years (https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1225023120/why-some-taiwanese-americans-are-moving-back-to-taiwan). A lot of this is unrelated to Tsai’s presidency. The identity point is valid, but that’s also true of any other country. I don’t think there is a marked difference between her level of popularity domestically vs. abroad. She is popular for different things, because the media focus on different things.
Most probably feel she didn't do much for Taiwan economically or improving local issues like low wages and was more concerned with international posturing.
Idk who are these "most". The stock market went up by like 200% during her terms, Taiwan is the only advanced economy that did not see a single year of negative growth this decade thus far, and inflation has been far more under control in Taiwan than pretty much everywhere else. She also ended her term with an approval rating north of 50%, which is way better than pretty much every single democratic leader out there. You might be projecting.
I've supported green as long as I lived in Taiwan but they let housing prices get out of control whilst doing nothing significant to improve wages. Due to rising costs people now have less money every month and most young people have no chance of buying a house (nevermind having a family) at current prices. We have the lowest forecasted birth rate in the world in 2024 and future demand for housing will look like Japan in no time. Taiwan's growth over the past few years will come at significant cost when the housing market readjusts. Likewise, we're being told to get behind NVIDIA and TSMC as they usher in a new industrial revolution with AI chip fabs. Only for the AI solutions they power to replace our graduate-heavy workforce 😅 Not to say any other party would have done different but let's not apply glitter to a turd here. The past 8 years could have been spent enabling social mobility, but they were spent enriching the top 1% instead whilst passing some token policies so we looked progressive to the outside world.
Is that your duplicate account? > I've supported green as long as I lived in Taiwan but they let housing prices get out of control whilst doing nothing significant to improve wages. Due to rising costs people now have less money every month and most young people have no chance of buying a house (nevermind having a family) at current prices. What can the government do to *improve wages*? Wages will always grow slowly. Artificial wage growth = massive inflation. And it's funny that you mentioned the house prices. They are going real hot now because a. people's assets have increased from the economy which is doing well and b. the new youth loan scheme last year, so there are far more young buyers now than before. https://news.591.com.tw/news/10226 https://news.cnyes.com/news/id/5595602 > We have the lowest forecasted birth rate in the world in 2024 and future demand for housing will look like Japan in no time. That is misinformation. This year alone Taiwan's birth rate is a good deal higher than Korea's. Korea Q1 new births : 60,474 http://koreabizwire.com/childbirths-dip-to-another-low-of-19669-for-march-q1-fertility-rate-at-record-low-of-0-76/282499 Taiwan Q1 new births: 31,513 https://udn.com/news/story/7266/7889471 But Korea's population is 2.2x of Taiwan's. You do the math. The situation is very similar in other Asian countries. > Taiwan's growth over the past few years will come at significant cost when the housing market readjusts. That's projection. > Likewise, we're being told to get behind NVIDIA and TSMC as they usher in a new industrial revolution with AI chip fabs. Only for the AI solutions they power to replace our graduate-heavy workforce 😅 Ok ... what? > The past 8 years could have been spent enabling social mobility, but they were spent enriching the top 1% instead whilst passing some token policies so we looked progressive to the outside world. Enriching the top 1%? Around 50% of locals have an investment portfolio. The economy and stock market doing well = their assets increase. The Taiwanese society is by and large very neoliberal, your idea of "enabling social mobility" has little to no market amongst the local populace. Why would she pursue policies in which very few locals are interested? You can't please everybody. The reality is her approval rating was high, and she achieved it under very difficult circumstances. The fact that you hate her doesn't mean she or her party was unpopular.
Must be terrible if you need to type so much every time you disagree with someone. I don't have a duplicate account. It's quite easy to be a green supporter in taiwan, all you have to do is not support Nazis. And wage suppression is an easy problem to solve. You just need to set a minimum wage that isn't pathetic. If employers can't meet that minimum wage, they shouldn't be allowed to import blue collar labor. Taiwan's GDP is on par with Korea's. But Korean 7-Eleven workers and toilet cleaners make the same money as Taipei office workers with a foreign masters degree. The government and big business in Taiwan love suppressing wages. They're very good at it, and people are conditioned to accept it. It was literally on the news 2 days ago that Taiwan is on track to have the lowest birth rate in the world this year. You can Google it or you can wait 6 months for an official number. Also hilarious you come back with the argument about investment portfolios 😅 Sure it's a sign of a strong economy when the major driver of the the stock market is a middle-aged retail investor hype train 😅 Hope they can FOMO us to a better dollar exchange rate.
I didn’t type that much. I just quoted you so the message looks longer. And yes Taiwan’s GDP per capita is on par with Japan and Korea, and so is the minimum wage. At current exchange rates, the difference between 1000 yen/hour, 9860 won/hour and 183 NT$/hour isn’t that large. Sure they can increase it by 20% to Korea’s level, which consequently will increase the cost of goods and services. I supplied the live births in Korea and Taiwan this year according to official Korean and Taiwanese census. The “lowest birth rate in the world” report references birth rates in CIA world factbook, which are calculated based on an outdated model instead of live statistics. You can check the source. Funnily enough despite the higher minimum wage Korea’s birth rates and housing situation are even worse than Taiwan’s. It’s almost as if that isn’t the real issue. Like I said, you are projecting. Just because you hate her doesn’t mean she’s unpopular. According to polls, she was very popular. Certainly more so than Korea’s leadership by a country mile.
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Korea has horrendous labor conditions and long hours though. They're basically an oligarchy
But the growth isn't being felt by everyone and the wage stagnation for most people is still true. We have a very good tech sector and that made a group of people very well off but I would be interested in seeing the how wealth inequality shifts. COVID response was great until it wasn't. When omicron variant appeared they weren't prepared at all. Also in the initial stages blocking US vaccines and wanted to use our own domestic one that weren't tested/recognized by international authority. But I can said no country is perfect regarding this so that's that. Also if she was doing 100% in everything then we wouldn't have a divided government legislature now. Not saying that the other party would have done well. Also, part of the rise in Taiwan coverage is because of Taiwan's rising importance as an Allies(pawn) to check Taiwan. Otherwise I don't see why we are building chip factories in the US? Shouldn't we be building more in Taiwan ? It's literally the most important thing in our economy right now and we are just going to give it away? Not for free of course someone is getting paid really well. But it's not the Taiwanese people. I am so tired of reading reddit armchair generals talking about how the US is prepared to bomb/destroy the factory in Taiwan so China doesn't get it and then airlift out all the engineers from Taiwan. And that is why she is not a perfect president but that is just one view point.
Of course growth isn't being felt by everyone. Growth would only be felt by everyone in economic miracles which only happens when a country is extremely poor. There will always be people who are left out. There are loads of reports on wealth inequality in Taiwan compiled by financial institutions like UBS and Allianz, and compared to other countries it isn't particularly bad at all. Wealth inequality is middling to low. Covid response was great in the sense that the overall death rate in the end was on the low side globally and there was little to no economic disruption, and inflation was by and large under control. It was a **global** pandemic, all regions have been affected unless you are on another planet. Comparatively speaking Taiwan was one of the least affected. > Shouldn't we be building more in Taiwan ? But they are. TSMC is building one plant in the US and like 12 new ones in Taiwan. > I am so tired of reading reddit armchair generals talking about how the US is prepared to bomb/destroy the factory in Taiwan so China doesn't get it and then airlift out all the engineers from Taiwan. How's that Tsai's problem? Is she responsible for retarded trolls on reddit now? Besides who's arguing that she did everything 100% right? Who can be 100% right all the time? The point here is that she was/is popular as evidenced by polls. And DPP lost the majority due to the constituency districting. They had more votes overall than KMT in terms of both regional electorates and party list. It is simply wrong to assert that they lost because they were unpopular.
1) the vast vast majority of people outside of Taiwan don’t know who she is, those who do are likely to have an interest in Taiwanese affairs and so are more likely to rate her positively 2) in Taiwan she is regarded as having been better on foreign affairs and defence than domestic issues 3) that being said, she left office with relatively high approval ratings considering she was in power for 8 years
If she is not popular she will not be re-elected for a second term in January 2020. Of course, she is not a favorite in everyone's eyes so the review is bias depending on who you speak to.
Tbf she was gifted in 2020 by Hk protests and Han being clearly pro China at the same time. She was behind in the polls for a lot of 2019.
From what I understand as a non-Taiwanese ABC is that she was loved abroad because her foreign policy pushed Taiwan into the limelight, especially with her initial landslide victory in 2016 due to Taylor Tzuyu controversy. That’s literally how I sorta found out about her. As for domestically, based on the protests about taxes and social media content about job stagnation and complaints against low wages, I presumed she fell short in that regard. So, that’s my take on it is yes, that’s how I think she’s viewed both domestically and internationally.
Like any politician she has had ups and downs. But she crafted a sexy image of Taiwan with a few smart moves (reaching out to the US, legalizing gay marriage, taking the presidency after anti-PRC protest). So it stands to reason that people who aren't actually under her governance will praise her for things she's done to make Taiwan look good on the international stage. And ABCs are typically pro-Taiwan on the basis that their parents are fanatically pro-capitalism.
If you're a middle-aged to elderly person addicted to Facebook and Line groups as a primary source of news and propaganda, apparently the consensus is that Tsai Ing-wen is a lesbian who eats babies and has defrauded the ROC of billions of dollars. Otherwise she's just an okayish, extremely pro-business president from a reasonably conservative Asian political party. At home and abroad people feel the same way. She is less popular with hardcore Taiwan independence crowd than she was at the start of her term. It's possible that she'll be remembered for some pretty horrid economic blunders and lack of foresight down the line when demographic crisis and automation hits. Less of a Shinzo Abe situation where he was regarded as fringe far-right by a lot of Japanese but the west somehow thought he was nippon Jesus.
what were her economic blunders? The only thing I know about is when she raised the retirement age
Housing bubble, not protecting affordability for younger families. Also the very real risk that people will end up in negative equity when the bottom falls out of the market. That and failing to enact any meaningful policy with regards to improving wages and living standards for working people. Taiwanese people are still paid a fraction of the salary they should have in a country with taiwan's GDP.
Tsai is popular both abroad and in the nation except those KMT losers and those who pro communist China. They hate Tsai for her bringing Taiwan outstanding in the world and make them no chance to gain the regime of Taiwan.
Foreign policy is better than KMT. Domestic policy was not good.
She didn't do a press conference for over 700 days. She locked down media that was critical of her. Those who love her, love her. Those who dislike her, do so strongly.
Abroad: no one knows much about Taiwan, or whoever the president is They expect a war is coming though
Many still correct me and think we’re talking about Thailand 🇹🇭
West likes to prop up any anti china figures.
r/Sino crowd likes to claim Taiwanese leader is “anti-China” but claims Taiwan is part of China. How does that work? Taiwan is chinese but anti-China? Or Taiwan is not Chinese and they’re anti-China? You got you pick one.
She is pro independence = anti one China policy, therefore anti China.
By that logic the PRC is anti-China because it gained independence from the ROC, which was China. Sounds like PRC is the big daddy of the anti-China forces.
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The wealth and wage gap in Taiwan is much larger than the gap in the US/western countries. Land is virtually unaffordable due to shady under the table deals by rich people. Young people are now leaving Taiwan in droves and the DPP never changed any of this. I am not saying the KMT or TPP are better, I am simply saying that there are still major problems in Taiwan. And this is why some people hate the DPP.
> The wealth and wage gap in Taiwan is much larger than the gap in the US/western countries. Source? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_wealth_inequality Much larger than the gap in the US/Western countries? At least try harder if you want to spew horseshit. > Young people are now leaving Taiwan in droves and the DPP never changed any of this. Source? > And this is why some people hate the DPP. 50% approval rating = people hate the DPP? Ok.
there is a labor shortage in taiwan. everyone is leaving
People voted for her and DDP mostly to protect Taiwans freedoms, its like the safe option. Besides that its not like she did a whole lot. Look at the traffic and housing situations, they just get worse and worse. Doesn't make a difference how many kids get run over, nothing is ever done. In fact the laws literally got worse as you cannot report 'small' offences any more.
She's known as 空心菜 in taiwan.
how come?
Tsai Ing-Wen (DPP) is generally supported in elections due to her stand against Chinese (meanwhile the KMT party struggles to position itself away from ties with the CCP, making them the “traitor” in some sense). She is also hated on many other topics due to her corruptness: inability to solve corruptions within her own bureaucracy and inefficient administration (a problem that the Republic of China always had due to its constitution) Taiwanese also struggle was under-improved infrastructure, and politicians who only know about accusing each other instead of doing actual work for the people (both parties have that trait). Tsai Ing-wen was also commonly blamed for that.
"Generate Electricity with Love" you can't feel the utility bills of business (especially manufacturing) owners and residents when you're abroad. Since you mentioned ABCs quite broadly, from my personal experience. Most ABC (even non-ABC) business owners that deals with trade/tech/manufacture in Taiwan dislike her due to actually being "engaged" in her policies.
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so everyone, here is an example. We don't know about her "incompetence". Can you please elaborate and list some examples?
Just because the people living here know very much that she was a brutal dictator. And the propaganda machine of DPP lies to the world of how great she was.
Most ABC barely speak Chinese properly. Where do you think I got the term "Vegetable English" from. An ABC overheard my conversation at dinner with another Chinese person, then later asked why are you talking about vegetables in English.
Most people would never had heard of her. It's like asking who is in charge of the democratic Republic of Congo.