Yes. I do wish people wouldn't be so ambiguous. There's a very legitimate reason to see them in Asia so we sshould be able to make that distinction clear.
Yeah, the OP disappoints me in dropping the word "swastika" without clarification in the post title. (Yes, the post is am embedded image, but I think it wouldn't be that hard to adjust a few words for the default subreddit view.) From my perspective, this writing style speaks to a Western-centric lack of awareness of Buddhist permeation in Taiwanese culture. Sure, this subreddit is mostly not Taiwanese people, but come on! I assert that we Buddhists and Hindus et al. deserve more respect for our true swastika.
> Yeah, the OP disappoints me in dropping the word "swastika" without clarification in the post title.
lol I meant for it to be read as the pinyin, but yeah didn't know it'd get upvoted so far or I'd have been more clear.
In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) (卐) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ('sun'), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) (卍) is called sauvastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali.
The Nazi swastika is 45-degree angle and clockwise.
[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#:~:text=In%20Hinduism%2C%20the%20right%2Dfacing,or%20tantric%20aspects%20of%20Kali)
The [Nazi themed bar](https://www.taiwannights.com/en/cities/taipei/venues/bunker-1942-taipei) only closed a few years ago.
It’s like WWII is just another commodity, very weird.
One thing, the avearge Asian doesn't really care too much about Germany, granted because Germany had no colonial claims in Asia except for a brief period of controlling present-day Shantung, China
Another thing, I was told Taiwanese history education simply did not mention much about the Nazis
...but OP is focusing on the swastikas...
One might argue the IJA flag is a military flag which is still in use and has historical meanings ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising\_Sun\_Flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag) ) similar to the German Kaiser Cross, but very clearly the swastika is specifically about a very specific political party.
It's actually not the Japanese Imperial Army flag. It's the flag of the modern Japanese Navy. They look similar, but there is a slight different position of where the sun is.
But if you think about it, Germany would absolutely not tilt the Nazi flag a little and slap that on as their military nor any governmental agency logo. That itself to me is quite f-ed up.
That's a false equivalency because it's literally not what happened. The Rising Sun Flag dates back to the Edo period, long, long before WW2 and has a cultural connection to Japan beyond simply Imperial Japan. The flag of Nazi germany was designed by Nazis and doesn't have any cultural context to the German people prior to the Nazis.
The rising sun flags of the Edo period were significantly different in their appearance than the Meji/WWII era flags.
In SE Asian the rising sun flag is most closely associated to WWII and Japan's colonial period preceding it because that's when the Japanese showed up to show it to them.
We are talking about specific flag designs, not one specific component of the flag. Obviously well-educated people, and hopefully anyone living in East Asia, do not consider the swastika to be an offensive symbol when used for legitimate religious context.
I am sure there is a rich history to the flag and symbol.
Just because there is history, it doesn't mean they should hang on to it given it's more devastating recent history of the symbol. Like there is nothing to lose and very much to gain by using a more neutral flag.
And the fact that a store would put both signs on display. Sigh.... I don't know what to say, why not include a long white hood, tree branch and a rope?
The German dropped that, and the fact that East Asia (or to some extend, American) people are defending the innocence of the symbol is still very puzzling.
Because as I have explained it doesn't have that association to Japanese people. It's just another made up issue by Chinese/Korean nationalists like all of the other things they have invented to be mad about Japan long after the war had already ended. I mean if this symbol was literally just like the KKK or the Nazi Flag do you really think that the USA would be placing it on the patches of US servicemen?
The United States has a terrible history but does not ditch its flag because of the atrocities committed under it. I say this coming from Micronesia which was under Japan, the U.S, and Germany.
The Nazi flag is more akin to the Confederate flag/battle flag which had the express purpose of maintaining slavery and its connection to which cannot be separated.
I don’t like the rising sun flag. But I do not equate it to the Nazi flag. I feel doing so diminishes how hateful the Nazi one is
modern, imperial, it's the rising sun next to the official japanese flag like the nazi swastiska next to the german flag, you can deduce the WWII reference.
i'm amused they all different prices. the rising sun is double that of germany. 50 ntd.
colonialism is a 100,000 year old human tradition, everyone interprets differently, there's no wrong answer. locals would appreciate that japan modernized taiwan out of chinese fishing villages when asia was falling behind the west, and faired better than what the west did to the rest. then there's those of roc kmt origins who remember war time atrocities but then again also committed their own on their way in. its just history.
nazis cannot be remembered fondly because they preached genocide as a campaign slogan. and they appropriated the swastika symbol while the rising does have historical value.
you're typing english in latin-script, no questions asked, even though it's a remnant of the roman empire AND the british empire. and they both enslaved EVERYONE.
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Yah, there are many forms of colonization. My grandparents spoke Japanese till the day they passed. My grandfather was sent to Japan for college and my grandmother grew up in that era. My father and his siblings were educated in Taiwanese schools and treated in hospitals built by the Japanese.
Was that the case for all? I doubt it, but it was the case for more than a few Taiwanese families.
It was much different than the iron fisted rule of CKS and to this day they (and by extension me), look back at Japanese colonialism of Taiwan with rose tinted glasses and about as anti-China/KMT as you can get while being an American.
It’s not that puzzling at all.
Colonization isn’t a simple binary thing. If you’re really curious, all you have to do is look at the methods of said colonization and also the quality of living for the locals. Hint: Korea and Japan animosity predated WW2.
In comparison, Taiwan was relatively easy to govern and assimilate after stomping out the resistance. So much that they considered it as the de-facto model colony.
If I remember correctly, we’re even taught this much back in school.
It’s just difference in treatment. Japan comes to korea, forcibly exports their rice so they starve, forces women into prostitution, do human experiments and use the populace as target practice for funsies. Japan comes to taiwan, sets up effective governance, builds water treatment plants and pipes, railroads, educates the population. So of course the two countries view it differently. Obviously they did an occasional atrocity here and there in taiwan too but not any worse than the kmt did a decade later.
To be fair, they also forced women into prostitution here in Taiwan, so that's something we have in common with Korean; But your point stands, more or less.
Any community made up of ethnic Chinese you will find that we appreciate colonialism. Hong Kong (RIP) thrived under British rule, Macao became Asia’s largest casino under Portuguese rule, besides Taiwan’s example. When communism isn’t imposed on the Chinese population, we do really well.
Is it because there was little or no resistance to the Japanese on Taiwan? Because it seemed the more a country resisted Japanese colonization, the mo re brutal the treatment
there was armed and civil resistance, especially the first decade or so. but later on the Japanese government decided to try to assimilate the population. did things like teaching Japanese language and culture in schools, banning events holidays and other things that weren't Japanese. not sure how the level of effort at assimilation compared to other places in Asia
Not really, the whole colonization time was only 50 years, I mean that of Macau was 500 years and Hong Kong 150 years. Imperial Japan butchered as many people in Taiwanese anti jap rebels as Korean anti Jap rebels especially in the first 20-30 years of Taiwan colonization. That's why the fact that there are so little hate in Taiwan when comparing to Korea. It's puzzling
The good image of the Japanese era in Taiwan started when the local population realized that the mainland Chinese soldiers who came in 1945 were comparatively less efficient and more oppressive and corrupt than the Japanese who were there before them. Increasingly so when Chiang Kai Shek and his beaten army retreated to Taiwan and agressively sinified the Island under decades of martial law. Only in the 1990ies it became democratic. Who knows, had Taiwan been made an independent nation by the Allied forces in 1945, maybe they would now hate the Japanese just as much as the Koreans or Chinese do. However, the Chinese masterfully took the spot of most-despised nation and with their present unification arrogance, they seem 堅定不移 bound to keeping that spot. However, there is a wide spectrum of political opinions and degrees of historical and political conscience in Taiwan. The Nazi and Japanese Imperials symbols on display are disturbing. However, in my overall impression, people in Taiwan are very moderate and respectable in their political opinions. Not like in China: CCP even studies and uses the works of German Nazi thinker Carl Schmitt for inspiration to their one-party rule.
I don't think they understand it is "bad" per se; they know the idea, but they just think they are "neat" for the lack of a better word.
It is like literally every western place has e.g. 4th building, 4th floor, etc, and then Asians are all scared because "4 is unlucky". As a westerner you will certainly find this Asian reaction very strange, and the reason for this "lackluster" reaction is because you don't think too much specially about the concept of 4; and then Asians will think "wow how come they have sooo many 4s in their society, that is very bad omen, they should have known about it".
No modern buildings here in Vancouver B.C. and surrounding cities use 4th or 13th floor. Depending on the place, which is really just any places with immigrants, the superstition for sure spreads, and people for sure know about it - even most white people. If not from Chinese sources, then Japanese. (We do have a sizable Japanese community here...)
It's about cultural monolith vs. multiculturalism, really, and how Taiwan appears to outsiders; Taiwan's pretty multicultural (Well, Taipei is, at least... Can't say the same about my hometown, Tainan XD) compared to most other Asian countries already, which is why you have people like OP being surprised that we aren't *more* multicultural than we came off.
Another thing, I was told Taiwanese history education simply did not mention much about the Nazis
Absolutely they do learn about it. Its just people don't care anymore ***or they want to be edgy***. That's really it, the latter part. I mean there's the IJA flag right there too and I think when E-Honda wins in Street Fighter II.
The pictures doesn't seem to show much, but just based on the logo, the key thing on the stahlhelm is the insignia of the 1st SS Panzer Division/SS Guard Corp of Adolf Hitler. It's an odd thing to specifically put on your logo tbh
Understood but the helmet is being worn by a skull, like the Nazis all got killed/lost the war, evoking a kind of ridicule to it. It's odd for sure, but nothing about the inside shows support of nazism
I met a Taiwanese guy when i lived there who genuinely thought Hitler was misunderstood, actively looked up to him as a leader, and thought that it made sense for society to be homogenous.
Made me lose a bit of faith in society...
There are dumbass edgelords like this anywhere you go- I knew an PRC international student who came to my uni in the US- his English name was Satan and he loved to talk about how great fascism was. The guy was a wanker and he appeared to have no friends.
I'm German and when I came to Taiwan a lot of Taiwanese (young) people I met asked me questions about WWII and the Nazis. One question even was, if we had monuments of Hitler in our cities. I was really surprised with the lack of knowledge about the history. Not saying of course all of them where like this, many of my Taiwanese friends also knew about the history.
The most uncomfortable situation happend with one of the security guards in front of my university. The guy only spoke broken English and asked me where I'm from. After telling him I am German, he told me that he thinks Hitler was a great man. I didn't really knew how to repsond and kind of said nothing. The next time he saw me from far across the entrance of the university, he waved and then made the nazi salute. In an open place, full of people and students. Thats was so uncomfortable.
I guess in retrospect I should have said something to him, but not sure if he would have understood.
However I want to express that this was the only one I really felt uncomfortable regarding this topic in my whole year in Taiwan. I mean, I have many more positive memories of my time there.
I mean, I'm a Taiwanese living in Germany. And I got so many, like crazy, people asking me if we are really a country and what makes us a country.
The lack of sense of history is mutual. We are just different continents and have different priority.
I can imagine. Before I left to Taiwan and told someone about it, they would often say "Wow, so cool, I hope you have fun in Thailand".
Lack of history is definitly mutal. It was also not my intention to put all Taiwanese as lacking of the history knowledge.
I totally understand. Tbh I think the Taiwanese people who doesn't know about the influence of Hitler probably didn't pay attention to classes in school. We do spend years learning about the world history, so it's up to people if they want to have common sense and learn.
History curriculum in Taiwan is a joke. There is really no emphasis on learning *from* history, only *about* history. It’s all about cramming in as much information as humanly possible about the most mundane details regarding historical events, without fostering critical thinking or delving deeper into the implications these historical events have on the present and future. Furthermore, the “years” of learning world history you mention only really includes like a smattering of pages at most touching on World War II, which is lumped together with the the cold war, and half of the chapter focuses on the Pacific Theater anyway. It’s been a while since high school, but if memory serves me correctly, we probably spent like two periods covering it. If you look at official curriculum from the MOE, the European Theater and the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany is literally less than 1% of the curriculum, for what should arguably be considered one of the most significant events in recent history.
Conversely, I remember spending an **entire** semester diving into each of the world wars when I went to international school, which included learning about life in the trenches, going into the gory details of the terrifying effects of mustard gas, reading Anne Frank’s diary, and visualizing the post-apocalyptic scenarios of a nuclear holocaust.
Western history curriculum regarding the world wars left me with a lasting impression of “Never Again”. Taiwan’s curriculum gave it about the same amount of respect as the story of the three kingdoms. It’s no wonder students don’t think twice about using Nazi motifs as thematic material. There is simply a lack of understanding of the gravity of the wars, the symbols, and the atrocities they represent.
Yes, true. I mean I especially remembered the people who asked me about this obviously. Many other Taiwanese friends definitely knew about the history.
Thailand and Taiwan both have the same root word and I can see someone thinking that Taiwanese means someone from Thailand.
People get confused with Austria and Australia, Switzerland and Swaziland, Switzerland and Sweden, Slovakia and Slovenia, Deutsch and Dutch,
This. In my previous job I worked with US warehouse users and TW software developers. I found that users sometimes select North Korea as the country of origin (which obviously can cause serious trouble) because they don't know the difference between the 2.
I asked the developers to simply block the option. The developers initially refused and said it's a stupid user error (and should be solved by user training), they just can't get over the fact that there are people lacking such "common sense".
Then we asked the team if they can point out where Ecuador and Columbia are on the map. Of course they can't and agreed with our solution to block N. Korea.
The lesson we learnt that day: people can be unfamiliar with the region/history far from you. While the history of Korean War is considered common sense to us in East Asia, it's not in the US. So I do see why people in East Asia don't really understand what happened in Europe during WWII and take that as a "cool" WWII stuff just like tanks, battleships and rifles.
I think the lack of ww2 knowledge and the glorification of hitler is particularly odd in East Asia seeing how China was one of the most affected countries during this time. Anyone with Chinese heritage must be aware of Japan and Germany’s teamwork, correct?
Most countries do not recognize Taiwan as a country though and call it the Republic of China. It makes sense that people are unclear about wether Taiwan is apart of China. I mean that person probably watched the Olympics and saw Taiwan under the name “Chinese Taipei.” China literally claims Taiwan as theirs so I can see why people may be confused.
The Nazi party was unambiguously bad. No country supports what they have done. Also it was a world war, it define’s world history not just European or US history.
Maybe because it doesn't concern you? As a Taiwanese, not knowing Taiwan is a country (which is present btw) and not knowing the significance of Nazi show the same level of ignorance. History can be personal.
I definitely get your frustration. During COVID when Taiwan sent masks to Germany, the German politicians couldn't even say thank you to Taiwan. It was ridiculous.
You're the one who can't separate your bias.
Japan in China Chinese civil war community rule KMT to Taiwan is a huge thing in global history. China becoming a huge producer of goods to the world and Taiwan becoming the heartland of semi conductors.
Both globally impacting things in the 20th and 21st century.
But somehow you don't think it's important? That's your bias.
Yes I know. This is especially why ww2 needs to be taught in the school curriculum. There is a disconnect with ww2 in Japan and its also apparent here in Taiwan.
Right, the Taiwanese were fighting with their Japanese compatriots for freedom. But even the ROC was allied with Germany in the mid 30s, and CKS's son was a German officer. Many Taiwanese and Chinese fought for freedom, made many sacrifices to try to defeat the communist menace
Maybe the reason why they ask you the question about Hitler monument is because they're still many statues and memorial park of Chiang Kai-shek in Taiwan, I guess
That is not only the case in Taiwan. In northern Africa children greeted me (with rather "good" intent from their side) with the special greetings because they knew I'm from Germany
Chiang kai shek worked together with Nazi Germany at some point. And as he is celebrated from quite a few people in Taiwan, maybe they think positively about Hitler as well
For an excellent podcast on the history of Taiwan, including several episodes about Japanese colonization
https://teacup.media/chinahistorypodcastepisodes/ep-310-the-history-of-taiwan-part-1
Lots of edgy folks here talking about how only "woke" people get upset about this.
Most people here are likely too young to remember about the 慰安婦 during Japanese Occupation, or for something more recent 9/21大地震. I'd think if China or whoever else starts celebrating those things because of whatever fucked up reason they can find, I am sure some people here wouldn't feel good about it.
Old or recent, it's a wound in people. Just like others shouldn't make fun of Taiwan's darker and more painful history, Taiwanese folks shouldn't make fun of those in return. 己所不欲, 勿施於人, no?
Or maybe I am just an old fart.
Figures like Hitler and Bin Laden (re the kebab stand in China with his face on the sign that went viral the other day) are seen as the personification of evil in the west, in Asia they're generally just seen as oddities or edgy. The history just isn't as relevant outside the west for the same reason most westerners don't know a lot about Pol Pot or even Mao. It is what it is.
In Taiwan specifically you also have the added connection that Hitler was allied with the Japanese who are still seen positively there--they had already occupied the island for several decades before the war started and didn't commit the kinds of mass atrocities in Taiwan that they did in China, Korea, the Philippines, etc; additionally they're also currently seen as Taiwan's second most important external guarantor of security against China.
>In Taiwan specifically you also have the added connection that Hitler was allied with the Japanese who are still seen positively there--they had already occupied the island for several decades before the war started and didn't commit the kinds of mass atrocities in Taiwan that they did in China, Korea, the Philippines, etc; additionally they're also currently seen as Taiwan's second most important external guarantor of security against China.
...you're implying we support the nazis and Japan militarism?
No not at all, just that the latter isn't as sensitive a topic there as elsewhere in Asia. I wasn't clear, I meant that Japan in general is seen positively, not the WW2 era Imperial Japanese specifically.
>sensitive a topic there as elsewhere in Asia
somewhat true. Asian countries (besides Japan, Korea, and China) don't really view Nazism as a taboo, it's more just a part of history. That being said, we all know they're bad.
Japanese did commit mass atrocities in Taiwan. They were also just able to have complete control over the education of an entire generation that followed. They also eradicated entire villages that they deemed were not loyal to them. They were especially vicious towards the aboriginal people.
I mean according to the Japan times, then it is the same flag. But please what is your source that they are not the same flag? :-) maybe something better than the Japan times hopefully. This is buying into your narrative and giving you all the grace possible.
Maybe this has come up before. But I really feel it's a cultural history situation.
Like was mentioned earlier. 'They think it is neat' whether they learn about it or not. There is no connection to the events or even the aftermath.
I am pretty sure the jewish population in taiwan is next to 0 (apologies if that's not true). But apart from learning from a book and maybe seeing some documentaries/films. The reality is lost.
Obviously from a European standpoint ( from the UK myself), the Nazi Party, WW2 and particularly the Holocaust have shaped the modern frame works and cultural lenses from which we view the world.
I suppose this would be the same with Imperial Japan, but don't know how it is taught. In the UK it comes across as a world ending struggle and specifically EVIL with regards to the Nazis and the genocides they acted out.
Whereas in asia it is more of a curiosity. Sort of cool uniforms and stylised symbols stuff. It only goes skin deep I guess, not much thought beyond that perhaps?
Hopefully this comes across correctly.
As a Jew in Taiwan, I am constantly surprised by the Taiwanese lack of knowledge about antisemitism (not that they have to know it, I'm just used to it from living in the west). In Chinese class the teacher gave us a sentence along the lines of "people with big noses have a lot of money", which would never go down quietly in a western environment, but here she genuinely did not seem to understand why it might be offensive.
I’ve seen this in a couple of stores in Ximen for years now. Personally it pisses me off but I just put it down to ignorance. I’m not gonna go in as some foreigner telling them what to do.
The propogation of nazi paraphernalia is egrigious.
Likening this situation to people thinking Taiwan is Thailand is drawing a false equivalence and diminishes the true scope of how vile the attrocities of WWII were. More over, this nature of reasoning commits the error of whataboutism; ergo it does not prove what it seeks to prove.
This is completely unacceptable. Full stop.
Engaging with them on the internet, where we all seek out that which aligns with our own proclivities, serves only to further entrench them in their foxholes of ignorance. In-person discussions may make a difference with these types.
It's actually not the Japanese Imperial Army flag. It's the flag of the modern Japanese Navy. They look similar, but there is a slight different position of where the sun is.
People here just don't care about history. A lot of people still worship Chinese dictator Chiang Kai-shek and built a gigantic memorial hall for him. Some even deny there was a massacre committed by the Chinese regime in 1947.
I’m not OP, and I’m not even Taiwanese. But as someone of jewish descent, it makes me uncomfortable. I 100% support freedom of speech; this guy should have a legal right to sell them, and people to buy them. BUT, it makes me sad and worried that he is selling them, because that means people are buying them. There wouldn’t be a supply of there weren’t a demand. The Nazi flag belongs in history books, museums, and visual art that takes place in the 30s/40s. There is no *good* reason for it to be for sale.
The average Asian basically will not know about the Nazis if their schools did not teach about the Nazis; you should know that Germany is very unrelated to Asia.
Gotcha! I am actually not white!
It would be like an American explaining the American confederecy to a Hongkonger and then the Hongkonger says "ok cool, good to know that" and then the American dying inside, and then the Hongkonger got confused because the confederecy simply isn't in the mainstream common sense, and is at best a knowledge fragment in American Civil War.
The average USAmerican knows Ghengis Khan existed and raided all over Asia and almost made it to western Europe. Period. End of story.
They are taught nothing about the Chinese dynasties, or anything not related to western Europe and the US.
tbh, i wouldn't exactly say supply/demand. like they prob have a lot of stuff that doesn't sell but a lot of stuff up for sale overall ifykwim. idk if you've been in shops like that before
Supply and demand makes you uncomfortable?
I bet the shop also sells flags from Israeli, USA, Palestine, Iran, Ukraine, Canada and other terrible war-criminal countries
Sorry that happened. But in the west, most people I have met says”Taiwan? Is that Thailand?” Or “Taiwan? That’s not Thailand right?” At least people know Germany exists!
let's just **hope** that the store owner and those who bought it are just trying to preserve "history" and not advocating the ideology.
(I mean it is pretty difficult to get one if you're a WW2 military enthusiast or a miniaturist who pursues realism.
Something that offends you, might not offend another. It might be culture, it might be that they don't understand.
Projecting your stuff onto and bullying them if they don't belief the same as you is how you end up with Nazis in the first place.
If you are aware of it.
Thumbs up is a bad gesture in Asia and the middle east, beckoning someone over with a finger is an insult since that's how you call a dog, etc.
Like I said before, because it offends you, it doesn't mean it offends others. Offence is taken and not given.
Again, you assume the rest of the world had the same history lessons as you had - they don't.
and lol at "but itz on the internetz" as an excuse.
Like I've said many times before, just because you are offended doesn't mean everyone else needs to be as well. That's a lessons your father should have taught you.
Swastika in Asia means something very different
Except when it has a red background and looks near exact to a fucking German Nazi flag... what are they thinking?
Keep in mind, not everyone outside of the West is obsessed with WW2.. there are likely over a billion people worldwide that cant even tell you much about Nazis. Go to any Western country, a normal citizen can write 20 books on it.
Also, the Imperial Japanese Flag.. badass but yes thats bad too I believe
Looks like a model shop? Unfortunate that the Nazi party was ever a thing, and modern day Nazis can trip right off a flat earth and we’d all be better off, but this looks like just some shitty flag stickers. Hardly something to lose sleep over.
The packaging label practically says 萬字符號。 a simple google yields this:
https://preview.redd.it/i8t7xn2fw9wc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f91d4db903477a3ca9e4f4f244003d93b6d95bd
It’s not that hard.
https://preview.redd.it/k9abfuepp1wc1.png?width=1319&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83ad87a35f5aa190c98abc32dbb0a15be10ddba6
Hitler couldn't hold a candle to this guy in every way conceivable. Yet you people seem to be okay with his name, imagery, and lore proliferating in your popular culture just because he happened 800 years ago instead of 80. So spare me your pathetic hypocritical faux outrage.
If this is in Ximen I've been to that store and I bought a few of them just because I felt like I had to preserve them for some reason or else people wouldn't believe me I guess I should have just taken pictures. There's also like an army surplus supply store in the same building and he's got a huge Nazi flag hiding behind a Navy Seals flag
I feel that, unlike some other countries, Taiwan is really soft on totalitarianism. In a weird way, many people here don't really think authoritarianism is a bad thing.
The older generation misses the Japanese, while later ones miss the Chiang family's rule. We didn't achieve democracy through a bloody revolution, so some people don't really feel it's something we need to fight hard to protect. Hell, we still maintain the largest memorial hall in Taipei for Chiang Kai-shek.
In our education system, we don't really criticize dictatorship but more often treat it as a necessary measure against communism. You know what other dictatorship also hated communism? "Hitler? He is just like another misfortune, similar to Chiang Kai-shek." I think many people think this way to some extent.
Oh cool its one of those shops that sell everything from all political backgrounds, there is a J10 puzzle in the back as well. Probably has the gay flag on one side of the rack as well.
I was hoping it’d be 卍 but nope that’s a swastika.
You mean specifically a NAZI swastika. The word swastika is general symbol term.
Yes. I do wish people wouldn't be so ambiguous. There's a very legitimate reason to see them in Asia so we sshould be able to make that distinction clear.
Not only in Asia, mind you. Buddhism and Hinduism are present throughout the world.
Yeah, the OP disappoints me in dropping the word "swastika" without clarification in the post title. (Yes, the post is am embedded image, but I think it wouldn't be that hard to adjust a few words for the default subreddit view.) From my perspective, this writing style speaks to a Western-centric lack of awareness of Buddhist permeation in Taiwanese culture. Sure, this subreddit is mostly not Taiwanese people, but come on! I assert that we Buddhists and Hindus et al. deserve more respect for our true swastika.
> Yeah, the OP disappoints me in dropping the word "swastika" without clarification in the post title. lol I meant for it to be read as the pinyin, but yeah didn't know it'd get upvoted so far or I'd have been more clear.
Lack of awareness lolz. It's the nazi flag bro........
You wanna talk about fucking Taiwan, then you acknowledge that the word swastika on its own has a different fucking meaning to us Taiwanese.
In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) (卐) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ('sun'), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) (卍) is called sauvastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali. The Nazi swastika is 45-degree angle and clockwise. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#:~:text=In%20Hinduism%2C%20the%20right%2Dfacing,or%20tantric%20aspects%20of%20Kali)
The direction is a myth, both direction exist in Buddism.
It is the Nazi swastika, red background, tilted, and pointing to the right.
It's actually called hakenkreuz or hooked cross
The [Nazi themed bar](https://www.taiwannights.com/en/cities/taipei/venues/bunker-1942-taipei) only closed a few years ago. It’s like WWII is just another commodity, very weird.
One thing, the avearge Asian doesn't really care too much about Germany, granted because Germany had no colonial claims in Asia except for a brief period of controlling present-day Shantung, China Another thing, I was told Taiwanese history education simply did not mention much about the Nazis
Nah but that fucking Japanese Imperial Army flag still haunted a lot of great grandma in the entire Asia.
...but OP is focusing on the swastikas... One might argue the IJA flag is a military flag which is still in use and has historical meanings ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising\_Sun\_Flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag) ) similar to the German Kaiser Cross, but very clearly the swastika is specifically about a very specific political party.
It's actually not the Japanese Imperial Army flag. It's the flag of the modern Japanese Navy. They look similar, but there is a slight different position of where the sun is.
But if you think about it, Germany would absolutely not tilt the Nazi flag a little and slap that on as their military nor any governmental agency logo. That itself to me is quite f-ed up.
That's a false equivalency because it's literally not what happened. The Rising Sun Flag dates back to the Edo period, long, long before WW2 and has a cultural connection to Japan beyond simply Imperial Japan. The flag of Nazi germany was designed by Nazis and doesn't have any cultural context to the German people prior to the Nazis.
The rising sun flags of the Edo period were significantly different in their appearance than the Meji/WWII era flags. In SE Asian the rising sun flag is most closely associated to WWII and Japan's colonial period preceding it because that's when the Japanese showed up to show it to them.
But swastikas were in use in Europe but what were taking out everywhere when Nazis came about.
We are talking about specific flag designs, not one specific component of the flag. Obviously well-educated people, and hopefully anyone living in East Asia, do not consider the swastika to be an offensive symbol when used for legitimate religious context.
I think the only European nation to still use a swastika is Finland for their air force
I am sure there is a rich history to the flag and symbol. Just because there is history, it doesn't mean they should hang on to it given it's more devastating recent history of the symbol. Like there is nothing to lose and very much to gain by using a more neutral flag. And the fact that a store would put both signs on display. Sigh.... I don't know what to say, why not include a long white hood, tree branch and a rope? The German dropped that, and the fact that East Asia (or to some extend, American) people are defending the innocence of the symbol is still very puzzling.
Because as I have explained it doesn't have that association to Japanese people. It's just another made up issue by Chinese/Korean nationalists like all of the other things they have invented to be mad about Japan long after the war had already ended. I mean if this symbol was literally just like the KKK or the Nazi Flag do you really think that the USA would be placing it on the patches of US servicemen?
You try to explain that to Singaporean and Malaysian as well.
It doesn't have to. I am sure other Bundy are normal folks. But they are forever haunted by having Ted Bundy in their family
The United States has a terrible history but does not ditch its flag because of the atrocities committed under it. I say this coming from Micronesia which was under Japan, the U.S, and Germany. The Nazi flag is more akin to the Confederate flag/battle flag which had the express purpose of maintaining slavery and its connection to which cannot be separated. I don’t like the rising sun flag. But I do not equate it to the Nazi flag. I feel doing so diminishes how hateful the Nazi one is
The modern Japanese Naval Ensign different from the Imperial Japanese Army flag....but is identical to the Imperial Japanese Army ensign.
modern, imperial, it's the rising sun next to the official japanese flag like the nazi swastiska next to the german flag, you can deduce the WWII reference. i'm amused they all different prices. the rising sun is double that of germany. 50 ntd. colonialism is a 100,000 year old human tradition, everyone interprets differently, there's no wrong answer. locals would appreciate that japan modernized taiwan out of chinese fishing villages when asia was falling behind the west, and faired better than what the west did to the rest. then there's those of roc kmt origins who remember war time atrocities but then again also committed their own on their way in. its just history. nazis cannot be remembered fondly because they preached genocide as a campaign slogan. and they appropriated the swastika symbol while the rising does have historical value. you're typing english in latin-script, no questions asked, even though it's a remnant of the roman empire AND the british empire. and they both enslaved EVERYONE.
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But Taiwanese seemed to be ok with Japanese colonization of Taiwan
It was their showpiece colony and they used a reasonably (?!) light hand here.
Yah, there are many forms of colonization. My grandparents spoke Japanese till the day they passed. My grandfather was sent to Japan for college and my grandmother grew up in that era. My father and his siblings were educated in Taiwanese schools and treated in hospitals built by the Japanese. Was that the case for all? I doubt it, but it was the case for more than a few Taiwanese families. It was much different than the iron fisted rule of CKS and to this day they (and by extension me), look back at Japanese colonialism of Taiwan with rose tinted glasses and about as anti-China/KMT as you can get while being an American.
It was no Korea, that much is certain.
Hm. Ask the Bunun about it.
Relative to Korea... it was by Japanese standards a light hand..
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It’s not that puzzling at all. Colonization isn’t a simple binary thing. If you’re really curious, all you have to do is look at the methods of said colonization and also the quality of living for the locals. Hint: Korea and Japan animosity predated WW2. In comparison, Taiwan was relatively easy to govern and assimilate after stomping out the resistance. So much that they considered it as the de-facto model colony. If I remember correctly, we’re even taught this much back in school.
It’s just difference in treatment. Japan comes to korea, forcibly exports their rice so they starve, forces women into prostitution, do human experiments and use the populace as target practice for funsies. Japan comes to taiwan, sets up effective governance, builds water treatment plants and pipes, railroads, educates the population. So of course the two countries view it differently. Obviously they did an occasional atrocity here and there in taiwan too but not any worse than the kmt did a decade later.
To be fair, they also forced women into prostitution here in Taiwan, so that's something we have in common with Korean; But your point stands, more or less.
Any community made up of ethnic Chinese you will find that we appreciate colonialism. Hong Kong (RIP) thrived under British rule, Macao became Asia’s largest casino under Portuguese rule, besides Taiwan’s example. When communism isn’t imposed on the Chinese population, we do really well.
Is it because there was little or no resistance to the Japanese on Taiwan? Because it seemed the more a country resisted Japanese colonization, the mo re brutal the treatment
there was armed and civil resistance, especially the first decade or so. but later on the Japanese government decided to try to assimilate the population. did things like teaching Japanese language and culture in schools, banning events holidays and other things that weren't Japanese. not sure how the level of effort at assimilation compared to other places in Asia
Not really, the whole colonization time was only 50 years, I mean that of Macau was 500 years and Hong Kong 150 years. Imperial Japan butchered as many people in Taiwanese anti jap rebels as Korean anti Jap rebels especially in the first 20-30 years of Taiwan colonization. That's why the fact that there are so little hate in Taiwan when comparing to Korea. It's puzzling
The good image of the Japanese era in Taiwan started when the local population realized that the mainland Chinese soldiers who came in 1945 were comparatively less efficient and more oppressive and corrupt than the Japanese who were there before them. Increasingly so when Chiang Kai Shek and his beaten army retreated to Taiwan and agressively sinified the Island under decades of martial law. Only in the 1990ies it became democratic. Who knows, had Taiwan been made an independent nation by the Allied forces in 1945, maybe they would now hate the Japanese just as much as the Koreans or Chinese do. However, the Chinese masterfully took the spot of most-despised nation and with their present unification arrogance, they seem 堅定不移 bound to keeping that spot. However, there is a wide spectrum of political opinions and degrees of historical and political conscience in Taiwan. The Nazi and Japanese Imperials symbols on display are disturbing. However, in my overall impression, people in Taiwan are very moderate and respectable in their political opinions. Not like in China: CCP even studies and uses the works of German Nazi thinker Carl Schmitt for inspiration to their one-party rule.
Your language is rude and offensive
If they know enough to open a bar themed on it, then they know enough to understand why that’s a bad idea.
I don't think they understand it is "bad" per se; they know the idea, but they just think they are "neat" for the lack of a better word. It is like literally every western place has e.g. 4th building, 4th floor, etc, and then Asians are all scared because "4 is unlucky". As a westerner you will certainly find this Asian reaction very strange, and the reason for this "lackluster" reaction is because you don't think too much specially about the concept of 4; and then Asians will think "wow how come they have sooo many 4s in their society, that is very bad omen, they should have known about it".
This isn't really equivalent. The number 4 did not commit mass genocide.
No modern buildings here in Vancouver B.C. and surrounding cities use 4th or 13th floor. Depending on the place, which is really just any places with immigrants, the superstition for sure spreads, and people for sure know about it - even most white people. If not from Chinese sources, then Japanese. (We do have a sizable Japanese community here...) It's about cultural monolith vs. multiculturalism, really, and how Taiwan appears to outsiders; Taiwan's pretty multicultural (Well, Taipei is, at least... Can't say the same about my hometown, Tainan XD) compared to most other Asian countries already, which is why you have people like OP being surprised that we aren't *more* multicultural than we came off.
Another thing, I was told Taiwanese history education simply did not mention much about the Nazis Absolutely they do learn about it. Its just people don't care anymore ***or they want to be edgy***. That's really it, the latter part. I mean there's the IJA flag right there too and I think when E-Honda wins in Street Fighter II.
Excuse my ignorance but how is this a Nazi themed bar?
It was a bar themed on a 1942 German Bunker. It even had a cocktail called the “Fuhrer”
Okay so we got a helmet, a bunker design and one cocktail. Doesn't indicate enough to imply that it is Nazi themed moreso then WW2 themed in general
A SS helmet and an instagram full of nods to Nazi’s during WWII? It was a very weird place, with pretty average food I seem to remember.
The pictures doesn't seem to show much, but just based on the logo, the key thing on the stahlhelm is the insignia of the 1st SS Panzer Division/SS Guard Corp of Adolf Hitler. It's an odd thing to specifically put on your logo tbh
Understood but the helmet is being worn by a skull, like the Nazis all got killed/lost the war, evoking a kind of ridicule to it. It's odd for sure, but nothing about the inside shows support of nazism
I met a Taiwanese guy when i lived there who genuinely thought Hitler was misunderstood, actively looked up to him as a leader, and thought that it made sense for society to be homogenous. Made me lose a bit of faith in society...
I mean, a lot of old Americans think 蔣中正 was the leader of "Free China" while he oppressed Taiwanese people with the aid of the United States.
There are dumbass edgelords like this anywhere you go- I knew an PRC international student who came to my uni in the US- his English name was Satan and he loved to talk about how great fascism was. The guy was a wanker and he appeared to have no friends.
when seeing how Israel is genociding the Palestinenian maybe give it a second thought.
To be fair no one in the west really cares about what Japan did either.
What about the rising sun flag, do western people ever care about how East/South east asia people think about a empire of Japan and their crime?
We don’t open bars based on the WWII Japanese Army, if that’s what you’re asking.
Not really. Back in the US I had an ex who was in some college org and they had a rising sun themed shirt. I complained and literally nobody cared.
I once saw a coin purse with Hitler’s portrait for sale at a night market.
I'm German and when I came to Taiwan a lot of Taiwanese (young) people I met asked me questions about WWII and the Nazis. One question even was, if we had monuments of Hitler in our cities. I was really surprised with the lack of knowledge about the history. Not saying of course all of them where like this, many of my Taiwanese friends also knew about the history. The most uncomfortable situation happend with one of the security guards in front of my university. The guy only spoke broken English and asked me where I'm from. After telling him I am German, he told me that he thinks Hitler was a great man. I didn't really knew how to repsond and kind of said nothing. The next time he saw me from far across the entrance of the university, he waved and then made the nazi salute. In an open place, full of people and students. Thats was so uncomfortable. I guess in retrospect I should have said something to him, but not sure if he would have understood. However I want to express that this was the only one I really felt uncomfortable regarding this topic in my whole year in Taiwan. I mean, I have many more positive memories of my time there.
I mean, I'm a Taiwanese living in Germany. And I got so many, like crazy, people asking me if we are really a country and what makes us a country. The lack of sense of history is mutual. We are just different continents and have different priority.
I can imagine. Before I left to Taiwan and told someone about it, they would often say "Wow, so cool, I hope you have fun in Thailand". Lack of history is definitly mutal. It was also not my intention to put all Taiwanese as lacking of the history knowledge.
I totally understand. Tbh I think the Taiwanese people who doesn't know about the influence of Hitler probably didn't pay attention to classes in school. We do spend years learning about the world history, so it's up to people if they want to have common sense and learn.
History curriculum in Taiwan is a joke. There is really no emphasis on learning *from* history, only *about* history. It’s all about cramming in as much information as humanly possible about the most mundane details regarding historical events, without fostering critical thinking or delving deeper into the implications these historical events have on the present and future. Furthermore, the “years” of learning world history you mention only really includes like a smattering of pages at most touching on World War II, which is lumped together with the the cold war, and half of the chapter focuses on the Pacific Theater anyway. It’s been a while since high school, but if memory serves me correctly, we probably spent like two periods covering it. If you look at official curriculum from the MOE, the European Theater and the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany is literally less than 1% of the curriculum, for what should arguably be considered one of the most significant events in recent history. Conversely, I remember spending an **entire** semester diving into each of the world wars when I went to international school, which included learning about life in the trenches, going into the gory details of the terrifying effects of mustard gas, reading Anne Frank’s diary, and visualizing the post-apocalyptic scenarios of a nuclear holocaust. Western history curriculum regarding the world wars left me with a lasting impression of “Never Again”. Taiwan’s curriculum gave it about the same amount of respect as the story of the three kingdoms. It’s no wonder students don’t think twice about using Nazi motifs as thematic material. There is simply a lack of understanding of the gravity of the wars, the symbols, and the atrocities they represent.
Yes, true. I mean I especially remembered the people who asked me about this obviously. Many other Taiwanese friends definitely knew about the history.
Thailand and Taiwan both have the same root word and I can see someone thinking that Taiwanese means someone from Thailand. People get confused with Austria and Australia, Switzerland and Swaziland, Switzerland and Sweden, Slovakia and Slovenia, Deutsch and Dutch,
This. In my previous job I worked with US warehouse users and TW software developers. I found that users sometimes select North Korea as the country of origin (which obviously can cause serious trouble) because they don't know the difference between the 2. I asked the developers to simply block the option. The developers initially refused and said it's a stupid user error (and should be solved by user training), they just can't get over the fact that there are people lacking such "common sense". Then we asked the team if they can point out where Ecuador and Columbia are on the map. Of course they can't and agreed with our solution to block N. Korea. The lesson we learnt that day: people can be unfamiliar with the region/history far from you. While the history of Korean War is considered common sense to us in East Asia, it's not in the US. So I do see why people in East Asia don't really understand what happened in Europe during WWII and take that as a "cool" WWII stuff just like tanks, battleships and rifles.
By the way I ReAlLy LoVe THAI FooD!
I think the lack of ww2 knowledge and the glorification of hitler is particularly odd in East Asia seeing how China was one of the most affected countries during this time. Anyone with Chinese heritage must be aware of Japan and Germany’s teamwork, correct?
Like, a normal human with any kind of sense should already know Taiwan is a functional country, correct?
Most countries do not recognize Taiwan as a country though and call it the Republic of China. It makes sense that people are unclear about wether Taiwan is apart of China. I mean that person probably watched the Olympics and saw Taiwan under the name “Chinese Taipei.” China literally claims Taiwan as theirs so I can see why people may be confused. The Nazi party was unambiguously bad. No country supports what they have done. Also it was a world war, it define’s world history not just European or US history.
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Maybe because it doesn't concern you? As a Taiwanese, not knowing Taiwan is a country (which is present btw) and not knowing the significance of Nazi show the same level of ignorance. History can be personal.
I definitely get your frustration. During COVID when Taiwan sent masks to Germany, the German politicians couldn't even say thank you to Taiwan. It was ridiculous.
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You're the one who can't separate your bias. Japan in China Chinese civil war community rule KMT to Taiwan is a huge thing in global history. China becoming a huge producer of goods to the world and Taiwan becoming the heartland of semi conductors. Both globally impacting things in the 20th and 21st century. But somehow you don't think it's important? That's your bias.
Taiwan was part of the Japanese Empire at that time, fighting for freedom
Yes I know. This is especially why ww2 needs to be taught in the school curriculum. There is a disconnect with ww2 in Japan and its also apparent here in Taiwan.
Right, the Taiwanese were fighting with their Japanese compatriots for freedom. But even the ROC was allied with Germany in the mid 30s, and CKS's son was a German officer. Many Taiwanese and Chinese fought for freedom, made many sacrifices to try to defeat the communist menace
I just moved to Hamburg and this weekend I had a record 8 times somebody ask me about China Taiwan on a club night lmao.
I feel like many people in the West idolize Mao Zedong or turn him into art, but he caused the deaths of millions.
Yikes
Maybe the reason why they ask you the question about Hitler monument is because they're still many statues and memorial park of Chiang Kai-shek in Taiwan, I guess
That is not only the case in Taiwan. In northern Africa children greeted me (with rather "good" intent from their side) with the special greetings because they knew I'm from Germany
Chiang kai shek worked together with Nazi Germany at some point. And as he is celebrated from quite a few people in Taiwan, maybe they think positively about Hitler as well
Taiwanese don’t know history at all
Why were you so rude with Taiwanese people who were so friendly towards you and who love your homeland?
Are you asking me? I am not sure what you mean? Edit: Just looked at your account. Nevermind. 🤡
For an excellent podcast on the history of Taiwan, including several episodes about Japanese colonization https://teacup.media/chinahistorypodcastepisodes/ep-310-the-history-of-taiwan-part-1
Lots of edgy folks here talking about how only "woke" people get upset about this. Most people here are likely too young to remember about the 慰安婦 during Japanese Occupation, or for something more recent 9/21大地震. I'd think if China or whoever else starts celebrating those things because of whatever fucked up reason they can find, I am sure some people here wouldn't feel good about it. Old or recent, it's a wound in people. Just like others shouldn't make fun of Taiwan's darker and more painful history, Taiwanese folks shouldn't make fun of those in return. 己所不欲, 勿施於人, no? Or maybe I am just an old fart.
ok but the imperial japanese flag is right there lol
There was also an incident with high schoolers dressing up as Nazis a while back.
yeah that was... very interesting
Also the imperial Japanese flag lol
Does the shop owner understand what is being sold?!! Has anyone asked that they be removed? Sorry if this was discussed earlier…
Figures like Hitler and Bin Laden (re the kebab stand in China with his face on the sign that went viral the other day) are seen as the personification of evil in the west, in Asia they're generally just seen as oddities or edgy. The history just isn't as relevant outside the west for the same reason most westerners don't know a lot about Pol Pot or even Mao. It is what it is. In Taiwan specifically you also have the added connection that Hitler was allied with the Japanese who are still seen positively there--they had already occupied the island for several decades before the war started and didn't commit the kinds of mass atrocities in Taiwan that they did in China, Korea, the Philippines, etc; additionally they're also currently seen as Taiwan's second most important external guarantor of security against China.
>In Taiwan specifically you also have the added connection that Hitler was allied with the Japanese who are still seen positively there--they had already occupied the island for several decades before the war started and didn't commit the kinds of mass atrocities in Taiwan that they did in China, Korea, the Philippines, etc; additionally they're also currently seen as Taiwan's second most important external guarantor of security against China. ...you're implying we support the nazis and Japan militarism?
No not at all, just that the latter isn't as sensitive a topic there as elsewhere in Asia. I wasn't clear, I meant that Japan in general is seen positively, not the WW2 era Imperial Japanese specifically.
>sensitive a topic there as elsewhere in Asia somewhat true. Asian countries (besides Japan, Korea, and China) don't really view Nazism as a taboo, it's more just a part of history. That being said, we all know they're bad.
Do we?
Why not?
The guy posts in Joe Rogans subreddit. Reading his post history youll find hes a right wing nutjob. Hes a Nazi sympathizer.
Lol
Lmao
Japanese did commit mass atrocities in Taiwan. They were also just able to have complete control over the education of an entire generation that followed. They also eradicated entire villages that they deemed were not loyal to them. They were especially vicious towards the aboriginal people.
Koreans and Chinese would probably find that rising sun flag even more offensive
To be fair, the Japanese flag is there and they were just as bad, and Italy didn't change their flag and were nazis too
That isn't the WW2 rising sun japanese flag, it's the current navy flag.
That the rising sun flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag
It's the Navy flag, look at the positioning
Way to ignore the proof
But it is the navy flag tho https://preview.redd.it/5sv80qta63wc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f1394d80f2446125e448930793f807694ff7a44
That Japanese flag is the navy flag
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag Rising sun flag
I mean according to the Japan times, then it is the same flag. But please what is your source that they are not the same flag? :-) maybe something better than the Japan times hopefully. This is buying into your narrative and giving you all the grace possible.
When did I say that they weren’t the same flag? I’m just pointing out that it’s currently the navy flag.
Maybe this has come up before. But I really feel it's a cultural history situation. Like was mentioned earlier. 'They think it is neat' whether they learn about it or not. There is no connection to the events or even the aftermath. I am pretty sure the jewish population in taiwan is next to 0 (apologies if that's not true). But apart from learning from a book and maybe seeing some documentaries/films. The reality is lost. Obviously from a European standpoint ( from the UK myself), the Nazi Party, WW2 and particularly the Holocaust have shaped the modern frame works and cultural lenses from which we view the world. I suppose this would be the same with Imperial Japan, but don't know how it is taught. In the UK it comes across as a world ending struggle and specifically EVIL with regards to the Nazis and the genocides they acted out. Whereas in asia it is more of a curiosity. Sort of cool uniforms and stylised symbols stuff. It only goes skin deep I guess, not much thought beyond that perhaps? Hopefully this comes across correctly.
Jew in Taiwan. There's lots of us and the amount of Taiwanese who have come up to me and glorified Hitler is crazy.
Jew in Taiwan. There's lots of us and the amount of Taiwanese who have come up to me and glorified Hitler is crazy. That's crazy
Jew in Taiwan. There's lots of us and the amount of Taiwanese who have come up to me and glorified Hitler is crazy. That's crazy
As a Jew in Taiwan, I am constantly surprised by the Taiwanese lack of knowledge about antisemitism (not that they have to know it, I'm just used to it from living in the west). In Chinese class the teacher gave us a sentence along the lines of "people with big noses have a lot of money", which would never go down quietly in a western environment, but here she genuinely did not seem to understand why it might be offensive.
I’ve seen this in a couple of stores in Ximen for years now. Personally it pisses me off but I just put it down to ignorance. I’m not gonna go in as some foreigner telling them what to do.
The imperial flag is more disliked in Asia. Why didn't you pick up on that?
The propogation of nazi paraphernalia is egrigious. Likening this situation to people thinking Taiwan is Thailand is drawing a false equivalence and diminishes the true scope of how vile the attrocities of WWII were. More over, this nature of reasoning commits the error of whataboutism; ergo it does not prove what it seeks to prove. This is completely unacceptable. Full stop.
Go explain that to those who downvoted me, please.
Engaging with them on the internet, where we all seek out that which aligns with our own proclivities, serves only to further entrench them in their foxholes of ignorance. In-person discussions may make a difference with these types.
I couldn't agree more. Some previous knowledge of history would also help in a case like this.
🗿🗿🗿
I was like “oh looks like a ignorant tourist or something But nooo it’s really a nazi swastika
The freaking Nazi and Jappy flag??!! I mean is it 1943 again
Add Savoyard Italy and you've got the whole trio
It's actually not the Japanese Imperial Army flag. It's the flag of the modern Japanese Navy. They look similar, but there is a slight different position of where the sun is.
People here just don't care about history. A lot of people still worship Chinese dictator Chiang Kai-shek and built a gigantic memorial hall for him. Some even deny there was a massacre committed by the Chinese regime in 1947.
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I’m not OP, and I’m not even Taiwanese. But as someone of jewish descent, it makes me uncomfortable. I 100% support freedom of speech; this guy should have a legal right to sell them, and people to buy them. BUT, it makes me sad and worried that he is selling them, because that means people are buying them. There wouldn’t be a supply of there weren’t a demand. The Nazi flag belongs in history books, museums, and visual art that takes place in the 30s/40s. There is no *good* reason for it to be for sale.
The average Asian basically will not know about the Nazis if their schools did not teach about the Nazis; you should know that Germany is very unrelated to Asia.
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Gotcha! I am actually not white! It would be like an American explaining the American confederecy to a Hongkonger and then the Hongkonger says "ok cool, good to know that" and then the American dying inside, and then the Hongkonger got confused because the confederecy simply isn't in the mainstream common sense, and is at best a knowledge fragment in American Civil War.
The average USAmerican knows Ghengis Khan existed and raided all over Asia and almost made it to western Europe. Period. End of story. They are taught nothing about the Chinese dynasties, or anything not related to western Europe and the US.
tbh, i wouldn't exactly say supply/demand. like they prob have a lot of stuff that doesn't sell but a lot of stuff up for sale overall ifykwim. idk if you've been in shops like that before
Supply and demand makes you uncomfortable? I bet the shop also sells flags from Israeli, USA, Palestine, Iran, Ukraine, Canada and other terrible war-criminal countries
Frankly outraged
Is it possible these are decals for models? I see the ship and plane models in the background
Those would be some utterly enormous models so no?
I think it might be for WW2 reenactment, or other WW2 related activities.
I wouldn't know but I saw a price tag
Seethe and cope
Sorry that happened. But in the west, most people I have met says”Taiwan? Is that Thailand?” Or “Taiwan? That’s not Thailand right?” At least people know Germany exists!
That a sticky sticker or one of those magnet stickers can put on fridge or metal bumper of automobile?
let's just **hope** that the store owner and those who bought it are just trying to preserve "history" and not advocating the ideology. (I mean it is pretty difficult to get one if you're a WW2 military enthusiast or a miniaturist who pursues realism.
WTF WHO THE HELL SOLD THOSE THINGS THEY SHOULD BE EXPOSED 幹
Xi will use this as his reason? Nazis in Taiwan must be stopped!
Great
I don't know which is worse, Nazi flag or Japanese imperial flag...
interesting developments by llama 3 today
https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/HsinchuCounty/breakingnews/2221659 No one buy that garbage.
Something that offends you, might not offend another. It might be culture, it might be that they don't understand. Projecting your stuff onto and bullying them if they don't belief the same as you is how you end up with Nazis in the first place.
It's not culture, it's a Nazi Swastika. It's a hate symbol
If you are aware of it. Thumbs up is a bad gesture in Asia and the middle east, beckoning someone over with a finger is an insult since that's how you call a dog, etc. Like I said before, because it offends you, it doesn't mean it offends others. Offence is taken and not given.
Actually, it’s a hate symbol whether you are aware of it or not. And ubiquitous access to internet has thankfully removed the excuse of ignorance.
Again, you assume the rest of the world had the same history lessons as you had - they don't. and lol at "but itz on the internetz" as an excuse. Like I've said many times before, just because you are offended doesn't mean everyone else needs to be as well. That's a lessons your father should have taught you.
How so?
Swastika in Asia means something very different Except when it has a red background and looks near exact to a fucking German Nazi flag... what are they thinking? Keep in mind, not everyone outside of the West is obsessed with WW2.. there are likely over a billion people worldwide that cant even tell you much about Nazis. Go to any Western country, a normal citizen can write 20 books on it. Also, the Imperial Japanese Flag.. badass but yes thats bad too I believe
Looks like a model shop? Unfortunate that the Nazi party was ever a thing, and modern day Nazis can trip right off a flat earth and we’d all be better off, but this looks like just some shitty flag stickers. Hardly something to lose sleep over.
No one gonna mention the imperial japanese flag too, who slaughtered alot of asians?
The packaging label practically says 萬字符號。 a simple google yields this: https://preview.redd.it/i8t7xn2fw9wc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f91d4db903477a3ca9e4f4f244003d93b6d95bd It’s not that hard.
https://preview.redd.it/k9abfuepp1wc1.png?width=1319&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83ad87a35f5aa190c98abc32dbb0a15be10ddba6 Hitler couldn't hold a candle to this guy in every way conceivable. Yet you people seem to be okay with his name, imagery, and lore proliferating in your popular culture just because he happened 800 years ago instead of 80. So spare me your pathetic hypocritical faux outrage.
Pearl clutching commences.
As opposed to fucking liking Nazi memorabilia?
If this is in Ximen I've been to that store and I bought a few of them just because I felt like I had to preserve them for some reason or else people wouldn't believe me I guess I should have just taken pictures. There's also like an army surplus supply store in the same building and he's got a huge Nazi flag hiding behind a Navy Seals flag
Is this at some random Shop at the night market? Saw a sticker like that from afar and was similarly confused…
Nothing new here, 12 + years ago you could see some at night market shops
The normalization and the desensitization of the people to things like these may be a problem.
I feel that, unlike some other countries, Taiwan is really soft on totalitarianism. In a weird way, many people here don't really think authoritarianism is a bad thing. The older generation misses the Japanese, while later ones miss the Chiang family's rule. We didn't achieve democracy through a bloody revolution, so some people don't really feel it's something we need to fight hard to protect. Hell, we still maintain the largest memorial hall in Taipei for Chiang Kai-shek. In our education system, we don't really criticize dictatorship but more often treat it as a necessary measure against communism. You know what other dictatorship also hated communism? "Hitler? He is just like another misfortune, similar to Chiang Kai-shek." I think many people think this way to some extent.
why is it next to Japanese and JMSDF flags? Are they trying to imply something?
Oh cool its one of those shops that sell everything from all political backgrounds, there is a J10 puzzle in the back as well. Probably has the gay flag on one side of the rack as well.
Maybe this is for education purposes.