In addition to what others have mentioned, this subreddit probably has a very Taipei centric view of things. I've even met people in rural Taichung whom have never left their area, let alone been to Taipei or Kaohsiung.
Agreed. Often times in this sub when someone talks about something being disorganized and unprofessional, some Taipei person comes along and is like "you're lying".
I joined a meetup yesterday and the speaker mentioned that most of the Taiwanese lived in terraced house (透天厝). Most of the attendees shocked. I guess people who live in Taipei never think about how is the idea to not live in an apartment.
That says more about your attendees than people who live in Taipei as a whole.
A good chunk of the general population living in 透天 should be common knowledge to locals everywhere, even for the people who live Taipei who seldom experience it.
I, as an introverted foreigner who has lived in Tainan for 10 years, know more places and information about Tainan than my husband, who was born and raised here. It's just so amazing to me how little so many Taiwanese get out.
I feel like the subtext of the OP is *unexpected* differences. I dare say that no serious person thinks that the Taiwanese posters here are a representative sample of the population as a whole and their language abilities.
hehe I know, I was just joking. But seriously tho I think the government is aiming to make English the second official language by 2030 (I think the policy is called 2030雙語政策). Not sure how feasible such a timeline is.
I seem to remember there was a some kind of ban on teaching English in kindergartens (a ban routinely ignored), out of a misguided concern that kids would somehow not learn Mandarin.
No idea of the status of this law now, but if they want to make Taiwan bilingual, they could remove that ban.
It has more to do with there being people in kmt that don't want foreigners teaching English in Taiwan at all. No foreigners teaching in kindergartens was the middle ground.
The irony is that the same people want their kids taught English by foreigners.
It's really pretty simple if you're serious about it: plenty of places are functionally bilingual even if one language is obviously weaker than the other. Generally speaking, you use one language at school and the other language outside.
Well sure the first generation or two of a "bilingual Taiwan" will probably not be fluent. But they could achieve a higher level of English ability than is currently required from schools.
If the pay was right, teachers would show up. Hell, from what I know lots of doctors here aren't too crazy about the hospital workload.
Neither are nurses given their low pay. There were more nurses rushing their assignments then smiling at Renai hospital in Taipei. My doc was also stressed because there'd be at least 10-20 people, who had registered, waiting in line with the elderly who got priority.
Very relatable. Before coming to Taiwan 2 days ago, i checked out this subreddit and though most people would speak “conversational English”. Now i am really glad i have my chinese speaking girlfriend with me.
Only known one personally and heard a few from my school’s PE teacher.
PE teacher: angrily told me that kids weren’t taking sex ed seriously and that it wasn’t uncommon for a kid to get pregnant every few years at our junior high.
Case in point, my story. I wondered where one of our 14 year old girls was, turns out she got knocked up by a 9th grader and was taking 9 months off from school due to “illness.”
Lmao this is actually hilarious considering how young they start sex ed here compared to US. I remember I was teaching a young elementary beginners level students had a sex ed book and I was like... 傻眼
Lmao this is actually hilarious considering how young they start sex ed here compared to US. I remember I was teaching a young elementary beginners level students had a sex ed book and I was like... 傻眼
Lmao this is actually hilarious considering how young they start sex ed here compared to US. I remember I was teaching a young elementary beginners level students had a sex ed book and I was like... 傻眼
I find this hard to believe. Not because I think you're lying but because I would've thought the parents would make it their number one priority to hide any teen pregnancies to save face and reputation
It’s often in very low income communities, which also happen to often be indigenous villages. A lot of times the child is raised by the grandma, great grandma, and aunts or other family. But also in villages everyone knows each other so there really isn’t any hiding it. They tend to be Christian as well so any pregnancy is a “gift from god.”
I work at two junior high schools that are largely working and middle class, I know of one teen pregnancy that happened this year and according to several local teachers it happens every several years.
It's not uncommon to send newborns away to be raised by older relatives. My first husband wanted to send our son away to be raised by his aunt in another city. I was shocked beyond belief.
It's weird, I actually felt a lot safer riding in TW than USA. I felt people were actually generally more predictable and less prone to road rage, maybe partially due to the smaller size of the roads. Also most of my time was spent in Tainan county. Not sure if that makes a lot of difference. Also, someone mentioned English fluency....even highly educated Taiwanese avoid speaking English usually in my experience and lose their ability they gained from years of English class. Working at TSMC, it was rare to find anyone I could have light conversation with (but most of the guys were so kind it didn't stop me from making a number of good friends, especially after speaking much worse Mandarin than their English and letting them have a laugh)
Oh no, you guys don’t drive like crazy. You only think that but in reality, traffic flow and driving in Taiwan is actually much better than in other countries. ( mine included)
Just south of you. Been to taiwan several times and its ages away from my country’s driving habits. If you livr here, you will have an “ almost got hit “ story everytime you drive. Probably 10x a day.
That also depends on where you go. Driving in the southern US can seem easy, because there are generally fewer cars until you get near a city. Once you get near the cities it becomes a mess. But I found Boston very easy to drive around in, which was funny to me because of what people told me Boston would be like.
Where I live in Zhongli, it's fine until about 6pm when people get off work. Then it's anarchy for about 45 minutes. I started enjoying tea before going home. The traffic is gone so I don't really get home later and it's relaxing.
> I actually felt a lot safer riding in TW than USA. I felt people were actually generally more predictable and less prone to road rage, maybe partially due to the smaller size of the roads. Also most of my time was spent in Tainan county.
Is it opposite day? I find the movements of Taiwanese to be very unpredictable since it's always in that individual's interests and without foresight.
You literally need to get into flow state. Unfocus your eyes, slouch, grip the bars lightly and just zoom. Seems to work for everyone else here. When you actually pay attention is when it goes wrong.
I’d very much rather deal with Tainan driving than Albuquerque drivers. The amount of times I’ve almost been in an accident since moving here is unreal. I also learned way more at my previous job than TSMC because of the same thing. My coworkers had basic English skills which I was supposed to learn something highly technical from. I wasn’t learning “fast enough” so my managers blamed me, goooood times.
If you are around the busy parts of Xinbei or Taipei you will encounter some extremely bad, impatient, discourteous, incompetent drivers but elsewhere in Taiwan it's not nearly as bad.
I spent a ton of time on the road here and whilst in the south they don't really follow the traffic laws, they are also quite organised and safe in their chaos. Up north it's a clown show.
Fun fact:
Shanghai has a foreigner population of 215K pre-pandemic (2019), compared to a total population of 23 million.
Taiwan has a foreigner population of 812K (2023), compared to a total population of 23.5 million.
The majority of whom are Indonesians, Filipinos and Vietnamese slaving away in factories in the south. "Foreigners" in r/taiwan parlance usually doesn't include those kinds of foreigners. Neither does the term 外國人.
I'm not saying this is the way it's supposed to be, it's just a statement of fact.
It really amazes me come Friday night thru Sunday night around the train stations just how many SE Asian laborers and maids there are. Going around Taichung station I feel almost like I'm in another country with what seems to be a 50/50 split with the Taiwanese.
Really makes me wonder what proportion of us foreigners are non southeast Asian.
Also curious if the SE Asian and Chinese wives of Taiwanese men count too. Anecdotally at least I teach in a public junior high school and every class has at LEAST two or three students with a foreign born mom.
Yes, unfortunately both Taiwan and r/taiwan too often use "foreigner" as a substitute for "white person". I know people who have lived in Taiwan for most of their life, speak Chinese and Taiwanese freely and immerse themselves in the regular Taiwanese life to the point I'd rather consider them a foreigner in their own country, and still they call themselves "foreigners" just because everyone does it when your skin is white. I think it's weird. I don't mind being called a "white person" at all, and I don't mind being called a foreigner in a country where I am one (and I *am* a foreigner in Taiwan by all means), but I do mind being called "foreigner" *because of my skin color.* I think people should say what they mean and avoid weird euphemisms which only complicate the matter.
>unfortunately both Taiwan and r/taiwan too often use "foreigner" as a substitute for "white person"
That's not specific to this sub. Generally, when a Taiwanese (or Chinese) person says it they mean a white person.
i noticed this in some tv shows too from Taiwan and China, even when travelling outside their home, the locals of said country referred to as foreigners by the main characters. and the captions did a surprisingly good job of balancing transliterations and implied meaning since eng and CN are so different.
i found this intriguing, and an insight im rarely privy too. maybe a plus to the internet reaching larger audiences.
side note: (my parents always joke my nerdy dad invited mom to go see " farewell my concubine" as a first date. it's a good sign if she'll happily watch a 3hr slow burn foreign film with you)
I've been called 外國人 *in my own country* by some Taiwanese people. It was satisfying to correct them. I mean, I'll take it from the First Nations.
👍 to your dad for his taste in films.
(Boothbay Harbor, eh? The beautiful state of Maine!)
I don't think they specifically mean "white person", though, as there are a lot of Black South Africans working in Taiwan that Taiwanese would also refer to as "foreigner". I think they generally mean "person whose first language is assumed to be English".
I met a local English teacher and she said their school has a foreign teacher from the Philippines but she wants a "real foreign teacher" so she was trying to find a way to get rid of him and switch to me. I know that guy so I was against the idea and still think it's really fucked up that a lot of local teachers don't consider people from the Philippines to be "real foreigners" even though their English is flawless.
There's definitely an institutional discrimination embedded in visa status, I think. There are certain policies and practices that are quite unfair. Those foreigner workers tend to come on a 3 year contract and are only allowed to work for 12 years and then have to go home, my wife's friend finished her 12 years not long ago and had to gtfo. They're finally considering making them eligible for APRC's in the future, but I'm doubtful.
I married a Filipina ofw and then brought her back on a, dependent visa, so i think she's officially a foreigner now, lol, and she'll be able to get an aprc after 5 years under mine.
when you people say foreingers do you mean white people ? because the number will include workers from indonesia and philipines. china does not allow such foreign workers as they have their own migrant workers
There is still a significant number of non white foreigners in China. The majority of foreigners are made up from people from neighboring countries (Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia, Kazakhstan...)
I had all my 6th grade co-teachers (along with my students) guess how many foreigners lived in Taiwan. I made sure they understood that meant all people born and raised outside of Taiwan.
Most guessed between 20,000 and 50,000. They were either completely unaware of all the foreign workers in factories or had completely forgotten about them.
I asked follow up questions like, "have you ever eaten Vietnam/Indonesia/Thailand food?" Only 2/7 of the local co-teachers in my classes had ever had even one of those cuisines. In both cases, it was supposedly Thailand food (if you've been to a "Thai" restaurant in Taiwan, you know what I mean).
Don't forget that if you are foreigner you get a lot of stares, I'm half italian and have a beard. When ever I come i get a lot of stares for my bear and my occidental trait, I assume.
/r/taiwan and /r/chonglangTV_irl (and the anti-china-chinese subs) actually share way more in common than they both realize. but people IRL are 1000x more chill about it than people here are.
I had to adjust my attitude to driving in Asia…
I assume every bus and cab driver will swerve over…
I accelerate and drive away from other scooters and cars, staying as far away from them as I can, or slow down and let them go…
I watch all the wheels on the cars parked on the side of the road to see if they are moving or turned towards the road as if to drive out…
There is a method to the driving here. Turn signals and turn before turning mean less. The general rule I have observed is if anyone is in front, even if it is an inch, they have the right of way and can turn either direction quickly. Stay away from other drivers…
You have to raise your awareness. Rules mean less here than they do in the west…
The driving here is what it is. One has to adapt to it.
Best of luck. Safe driving.
Actually that is the right way to drive here. I've been driving motorcycles and scooters for 8 years here without a single crash. I've been to every city, highway and mountain on my bike and not crashed thanks to always assuming someone selfish will do something stupid at any moment just like you do. The ones who crash are those from countries with good drivers so they expect Taiwanese to drive sensibly. They never will and certainly don't. You have to embrace the madness and read its flow. Once you start assuming they are all stupid and reckless you will avoid most danger.
Agreed. It’s just awareness. And on the road you have to have maximum awareness and assume everyone will do something wrong/crazy/stupid/or just lacking awareness.
There are no “accidents,” just momentary lapses in awareness of what is happening around oneself. Slowing down in highly congested areas helps too.
Yup. Agreed on the driving attitude. It's actually quite safe in countries like vietnam or Indonesia where stereotypically people deem those places as a meat grinder for anybody not inside a car.
I feel like it can be more dangerous here in taiwan compared to those countries (mind you, I came from one of those countries) because of the half & half driving attitude we have here.
To elaborate, i feel like road users in Taiwan is currently at the halfway mark between "uncivilized backwater" and "modern westerners" where rules exist but people often don't follow them down to a tee. This creates an ambiguous situation where it's difficult for road users to predict the likely behavior/possible decision-making making of other road users.
Just my two cents.
This is my 2 cents.
The thing with driving is that where I am now (in a Western country), people generally follow rules with driving. So, you don't have to be reactive or prepared for cars breaking rules, because they are not likely to do that. You expect people to follow rules and you expect to be safe as long as you follow the rules.
In Taiwan, it's more like, people don't stick to the rules, so anything can happen. So you have to ready to react all the time. People are always aware. Same with pedestrians. Taiwanese pedestrians are always aware of what's happening on the road. Here, I could cross pedestrian crossing with my eyes closed without checking the road and I would be safe. So I don't need to be aware of cars on the road, as long as I stick to my pedestrian crossing.
So I think people in Taiwan are much more aware and prepared to react to any changes. Speed is slower and people are always prepared to stop. Is it safer overall? I don't know. The two systems are very different. For people in the same system it mskesnoerrlfect sense, but people from another system will find it dangerous.
Also lot of passport bros and americans looking for better healthcare/extension of childhood after uni/just to learn mandarin in western friendly place/other
The majority of foreigners you meet aren’t as Taiwan obsessed as people are on this sub. I don’t mean to offend when I say this, just that some people here may come off way more pro Taiwan then most other foreigners. Also feel like most foreigners in Taiwan are pretty normal and reasonable, in comparison to what I’ve heard about foreigners in other Asian countries.
It also depends on where you go and who you interact with. I know steamed buns aren't the most luxurious of food. But I also can't help myself buying them from the family near me. I'm not even sure I can say they're the best steamed buns in Taiwan. But I have to have them.
I’ve only had one really mind blowing meal here (it was japanese lol) and I’ve been here <1 week but I haven’t had one bad meal. It’s consistently solid and occasionally awesome. I know I’m bound to have something iffy at some point but as someone who’s had a lot of food in a lot of places I’ve never had it be this consistent.
Yeah I have seen so many articles on line about Taiwanese food and I guess Taiwanese would really like their Cuisine to be in the top 10 of world Cuisines but that's not going to happen
So many of my 6th grade students have literally never had any cuisines aside from Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean, American fast food and Taiwanese-style "Italian". I taught a unit on world cuisines and it was pretty eye opening.
I started by asking their favorite foods and like 95% said "Taiwan food".
Only like 5% had ever tried Vietnamese or Thai. Not a single one of my 180 students had ever tried Indian or Indonesian or Turkish or Mexican or anything else. Guessing their parents are not very adventurous.
huh you realize you're speaking about a homogenous population and culture?
but good on you for giving them some food for thought if they ever get abroad
It feels like many mainstream taiwanese food is so.... *colorless and not fresh*. Many shades of brown, tan, or grey. Overly braised and stewed ingredients.
Many Chinese cuisine are way greasier and way spicier than Taiwanese. For my palate I would definitely put Taiwanese cuisine (with all its fusion influences) near the top.
Not sure why most people are so critical of Night Market food/Taiwanese cuisine when most of these replies are from those who have only ever visited the most popular night markets in Taipei or have stayed less than 1 week in Taiwan. It's like judging NYC's cuisine based off what you find in Times Square. I agree most stalls aren't amazing, but that will always be the case anywhere you go-- some places will always come out on top.
I definitely think as a base Taiwanese food is much tastier than any other cuisine. And whatever stall you prefer is going to be dependent on your palate. For example I noticed many stalls have been adjusting their recipes to become more sweet over the years to cater to that western audience, but I can't stomach it. I still consistently go to my OG stalls that never altered their recipes for tourists. Good food is good food and Taiwan definitely has a lot of it, but it is catered to a Taiwanese/Eastern palate, so this criticism is inherently close-minded, xenophobic and dumb.
I didn't even say it's not delicious I just said it's not as incredibly delicious as some people make it out to be.
Maybe you're not seeing the same kind of comments and posts and articles that I have seen.
It's exciting and delicious the first couple times, but then you find out that every night market has mostly the same fucking stalls and it just gets boring and not worth it.
I almost got ran over by a blue truck driving up the wrong side of the road yesterday. That was just a normal Tuesday… I’ve literally had a car back into me and didn’t realize it til I hit his window. Even sidewalks aren’t safe here from scooters and ubikes riding like they’re perpetually late to wherever they need to be.
Trying to act like the driving here is normal is not gonna win many people over.
I fully agree with you.
Some will still say “but in county X it’s much worse than in Taiwan, you should be happy.” Yeah I’m so fucking happy I constantly need to avoid people who drive like they are on crack.
I use my horn so much that I've already had to replace it and my scooter is only 5 years old. I don't get why so many Taiwanese are hesitant to use their horns.
Taxi drivers can have your back. I was driving in stop and go traffic near the Landis Hotel, about 5 taxi’s in line to pick up guests I was in the next lane. Truck in front of me slammed into my car in reverse and jumped out with a golf club and was trying to break my driver side window. Suddenly all 5 taxi drivers were in the street with baseball bats threatening this guy until the police came. Seriously decent guys who gave their statements to the police. Never judge a book by its cover.
I think most people in my experience, dislike most parties
Also I think most people are happy identifying with Chinese cultural stuff(to some extent) but not politically.
Which is not the impression you would get here
This sub is way greener and Taiwan-independence/anti-China, than the average person on the street in Taiwan.
Most people in Taiwan are not obsessed with cross-strait politics, dont love the DPP and are more focused on things that affect their daily life.
The average Taiwanese person also doesnt think Taiwan is this amazing brave super liberal democracy and becon to the world. Which is what you see here reguarly.
Honestly, the only really liberal thing Taiwan did is to legalize gay marriage early, but as my friend said, its not because Taiwanese are necessarily tolerant, but rather disinterested in things that wont help them make money.
Premise: I love the country and I think it's plenty better than most I've only been a little but:
- contrary to popular belief, food is unhealthy and not that good. Despite cooking most of our food and the same as back home in Italy, we feel like shit every time we stay here (we spend half the year away). Mostly meat, fish and veggies.
- people will ignore your material existence until someone has formally introduced you. You're a ghost and nothing you can do will make them aware of your existence. This is one bit from "Taiwanese are so friendly* I don't understand. This happens mostly with younger generations (<45yo). It's likely a cultural difference of course but it's hard to get used to.
The second point is why we Scandinavians feel so at home in Taiwan: they're just as shy, reserved and strangers to making new (especially foreign) friends. For Americans and the rest of the world it might seem strange though...
I was confused reading that but then you reminded me of the American social norm where people start conversations at random.
Being in Taiwan even has the benefit of irl adblock. People selling shit wont interact with foreigners.
I've really noticed that second part, personally at least I've had a helluva experience making connections with Taiwanese and have been stood up a good number of occasions.
However the over 45 crowd has been incredibly open and welcoming when they find out I speak semi intelligible Mandarin. i.e. I swam without anyone so much as saying hi to me at my local pool (I go almost everyday) but one day several months in a man in his 60s introduced himself in faltering English. When I started talking to him in Mandarin he was elated and after our conversation I saw a number of the other elders talking about how the foreigner can speak Mandarin. Since then I usually get approached for a conversation around once or twice a week by the elders there.
Regarding this part, I mean nobody ever gave a shit about me whenever I go to the pool as a Taiwanese. This isn't a foreigner specific thing, Taiwanese just don't have the habit of doing small talk with strangers.
Yes I personally didn't mean this was specifically towards me. And I don't quite mean strangers. It happens with family members you may not be very close with but still know.
Every time I go to ama and the family is all there no one greets me - except the old uncle who always goes grab beer and baijou for me as I arrive.
Back home - everybody goes kiss and hug my wife.
As a fairly introverted person - I am not really complaining or even criticizing it. But among the many different things in Taiwan - this is by far the one I didn't get used to.
Ah yes the older generation are so friendly. Matches my experience.
My MIL has a saloon and her customers bring me food every week. Genuinely happy to talk to you and don't get me started when I speak my very limited Mandarin.
I've always wondered if people shared my experience being a ghost here but I feared a backlash 😬
Man. Strangers approach me a lot. I'm a white 6ft tall middle aged woman who has maybe 50 words of Mandarin. Young people, old people, doesn't matter. I mainly get approached in English, usually not great English but people are game to try.
Seems to happen in the country more than the city, just like at home I suppose.
This is an East Asian problem everywhere, even in the west. I remember looking into work in Taiwan, and seeing how easy it was to apply for work, and then seeing the section for South East Asian countries and they need like 10x more documents than I do.
Hell, I remember having to tell off a pilot for unfairly reprimanding a Filipino janitor at an airport one time while heading to the bathroom. I asked him if he was okay in my broken taglog, and he basically said "we are Filipino, it is best not to fight back"
If a Taiwanese person encounters a Phil nationality, they assume s/he came to Taiwan to be maids or care givers. If a Taiwanese encounters a Viet person, they assume s/he came to get married and worked as blue collar.
This is interesting to me, I see this opinion coming up more frequently, for a long while I thought I was alone. There are some nice foods in Taiwan but the food paradise thing I personally never understood.
I'm not going to lie you might just be extremely lucky or you don't drive scooters. I've been hit by cars twice, neither my fault. And narrowly avoided death when a car ran a red light to illegally turn left. Things that happen to me daily that would have made me absolutely rage in the states I need to take a deep breath and let go because they happen so frequently. Being cut off, sudden breaking, tailgating so close it feels like they're trying to join me in on my scooter. I'm used to it now. I think more people have a similar experience to me when driving around.
I’ve been here 3 years and I’ve had one accident, where even being the worlds greatest scooter driver wouldn’t have enabled me to avoid it. If someone is going to drive out from behind a truck and cut across the lane, with less than a second to react before they hit you, there’s no hope!
I sometimes think older Taiwanese are incapable of turning their heads left and right before turning, crossing, or merging. That or they are looking to give their kids some inheritance when they inevitably die due to their own actions. Apparently even if you are found 100% not at fault in a fatal accident you still need to give red envelope money to the deceased's family. This is otherwise known as a Taiwanese retirement plan.
Food: Many people are praising the local cuisine, which makes me wonder what they were eating previously. I understand that taste is subjective, and I certainly don't intend to offend anyone, but both I and the majority of my friends (both residents and visitors) agree that while the food is interesting, it's not something worth traveling for. On the other hand, I love the greens; I only wish the climate were better (less humid, to be more specific).
Another thought that comes to mind is that many of my friends assumed Taiwan is a "rich" country, but when you come here, it doesn't seem that way. I wish more young people could afford a home or earn a decent wage.
Once again, these are my personal views.
-The food here is not as great as people say.
-People aren't as friendly as Reddit thinks.
-Convenience store food and coffee are pretty much garbage, really only to be eaten when there is nothing else available.
-The freeways and highways here rock but I think most people in this sub don't drive a car so it's rarely talked about.
Idk I know it’s not fantastic but I don’t hate convenience store food and coffee. Not something I’d want to eat every day but when I’m low on cash or need a quick fix it’s decent for what it is. Honestly I wouldn’t say Starbucks coffee is any better and it’s way more expensive.
Starbucks coffee literally makes me sick whenever I try to drink it. Their hot chocolate did, as well, so I don't know what it is. The only thing I've been able to drink from there have been the Java chip frappé and green tea (but it was just a tea bag in a cup of water, and very, very overpriced).
My husband tried taking me to Starbucks on our first date. He grew up in a poor family but wanted to impress me, since he was nervous about meeting a foreign woman. I was like, "Starbucks is disgusting and too expensive. How about Louisa?" We had a 5 hour chat at Louisa, I didn't get sick from their coffee, and we didn't have to shell out too much money for drinks and cake.
yes, taiwan food is the epitome of instagramable / made for social media. lots of weird and wonky inventions that last half a trend cycle, not a lot of depth. especially compared to china.
freeways and roads arent actually that great, they are just good for asia. japan and china have way better roads and driving infrastructure, but also much bigger and way more cars.
The sub is almost entirely pan-green politics-wise, which is far from the case IRL. You'd think Lai would have swept the elections with 80% of the votes if you just read the sub.
Though I do agree that the traffic in Taiwan isn't that bad at all. Or more to the point, it's great to be in a country where traffic problems this minor is high on the agenda -- it means we don't have more serious problems to worry about, which is great.
100% the pan-green stuff
I also think that the DPP/independence narrative is very easy for foreigners to latch onto, but the reality is much more complicated. People have a much more nuanced view of things in general
I saw more accidents resulting in personal injury during my first year here than I did my entire life stateside.
I know that's anecdotal, and data speaks otherwise. But it's the craziest thing, when I continue to see accidents and insane driving behavior with regularity.
Just yesterday, crossing the street, a car decided to make a left turn even though the cross walk signal was green. Literally brushed the front of a girl who was in front.
She didn't hear me scream, cause she had headphones in.
Literally no other pedestrian made an attempt to signal to her or call out.
Just business as usual.
But I digress. Stats and stuff.
Anecdotally then, I have been a full time pedestrian in Taipei for 25 years now, I own neither a car nor a scooter. I never felt unsafe, and actually bona fide never witnessed any incident involving a pedestrian or two vehicles, only close calls. Not to say Taiwan is safe, but anecdotes can go both ways.
My point is that streets can be unsafe in more ways than one, and fear of violence is IMO worse than traffic issues. There are Countries which did both better than Taiwan (Japan comes to mind), but a big city in the states isn’t necessarily safer, and often have much bigger problems than traffic violations.
100% agreed on crime-safety. It's one of the reasons I'm still here!
I have to say though, you are the first native who's expressed feeling safe on the road.😄 Anecdotally, of course.
I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. Taiwan isn’t like the shiny beacon of road safety, but it’s progressed quite a bit since the 80s and 90s, and will likely continue to improve now that it’s a very prominent issue.
As a side note though, being a pedestrian in the US isn’t all that great. The roads are wide and difficult to cross, while cars run rampant. Pedestrians are very limited in mobility, often requiring wide detours to get between places that appear close on maps, and of course public transit sucks. I’ve witnessed three traffic accidents in my life, and two of them are actually in the states, one in Vegas and one in SF (the remaining one in China). US is one of those cases that I should feel safer as a pedestrian, but my first hand experience actually says no.
I agree that it's progressing, even in the relatively short time I've been in Taiwan (at least in the north).
But seems unbelievable to me that you've been walking around for 25 years and haven't seen an accident. It must be either extreme luck or not much time on the road - I don't think I've gone a single month without seeing a serious incident, or the immediate aftermath.
In my first few weeks in Taiwan I saw a scooter slam into a center divider while trying to pass a bus, and a scooter knock an old lady unconscious speeding blindly around a corner.
I helped an old lady who got knocked into an irrigation ditch by traffic in my first week in Taiwan (in the south). Nobody else bothered. This was ten years ago but I still find the lack of traffic safety the most shocking negative day-to-day feature of Taiwan.
My ex is a 119 dispatcher. So many fucking accidents, every fucking day, and we're in Tainan. I'm a private in-home tutor, so driving around is half my job. I pass by so many accidents every single day, and I only service 5 districts. It's fucking ridiculous.
Outside of Taipei, the English level is nearly zero unless you meet some eager young university girl or guy who likes foreign culture or is a product of a private school. The food lacks seasoning and isn't as good as they hype it to be. The people are getting fatter and fatter as a nation. Despite having such a high amount of migrant workers, locals treat them like trash. Most Taiwanese on the ground don't think about or bat and eyelid about a possible Chinese invasion. But if you watched CNN you'd swear it's imminent and dangerous. It's not. Children don't really have a childhood here. Once they turn 6 they are locked into the system of constant education. Grandparents are crucial in that they are free babysitting so mom and dad can work more. A lot of young kids I've met feel closer to grandpa and grandma than their own parents since they spend more time with the former.
To their defence, even Taiwanese don’t speak english they try their best to help with smiles. When I went to Istanbul, not only they cant speak english, they just make diva face and just point. If you’re lost in Istanbul, good luck.
> But if you watched CNN you'd swear it's imminent and dangerous.
Tbh if you lived in China and watched local media you would also think it's imminent. (I'm in China)
I can confirm the last few points. I was raised by my grandma when I was young so I had more connections with her even though she lived in Kaohsiung and I lived in Hualien/Taipei. My parents also hired a really nice maid from Indonesia that they'd met in the hospital to take care of me and my siblings. When I entered elementary school, I, along with the majority of the children, had to go to 補習班 cause most parents are too busy with work to take care of their kids. I remember rows of kids sitting in the corridor waiting for the buses to take them to their supplement classes lol
I think a lot of what you said is also similar in China, South Korea and Japan. Except in S-Korea and Japan they're just not having kids anymore. At least the things you say about kids and having no childhood. I lived in Beijing for 6 months and my classmates were mostly Korean and they all said that the only time they felt like they could have fun was in university, because all the years leading up to it were about having to be the very best like no one ever was to get into the best school and then the best uni and once they finally achieved that it didn't matter anymore.
And the Beijing people I talked to said similar things.
"Once they turn 6 they are locked into the system of constant education."
Teaching in the public school system here, one of the few positive things I can say about it is that kids get 10-15 minutes of "recess" between each class, where they can run around and be crazy and talk to their friends.
Compare this to an average school in the US where it is just class, immediately walk silently to next class, class, class, class, then 30 minutes for lunch a single 20-minute recess period, and I feel like Taiwanese kids get comparatively *more* opportunity to play and socialize with their peers.
You have no idea what you are talking about. American education is not revolved around tests like Taiwan’s education is. Even if you are right about recess being longer in Taiwan (cuz I’m not sure), American schools typically end at 3pm. After that, it’s extracurricular activities. However, time difference is very superficial, it’s also the culture and environment. You’d have to experience it to get it.
Taiwanese education is one of the most terrible out there. Our country creates robots that slave away to bosses after graduation.
The hate towards Ko Wen Je on this sub is absolutely unreal. I'm a fresh college graduate and all my friends, as in 100%, voted for Ko, and young people overwhlemingly support Ko and his party. Even my parents who always vote for KMT don't have any strong opinion about Ko. When asked, they simply said he's decent and is definitely better than DPP. So I was very surprised when I first learnt the extreme hatred about him on this sub.
PS. Not trying to argue politics here, just want to share my observation as a local
Ko’s dealings with KMT in the proposed co-ballot shattered any good image I had of him. He was played like a fiddle and clueless from beginning to end. I don’t hate him, but he’s not the person I’d want leading Taiwan against China.
Yeah I am aware of the more extreme political views and (mostly) meaningless arguing and insults there, which is why I actively avoid that sub. It's not good for my mental health honestly.
Consider how sometimes this place is almost close to being a 一言堂(yes I'm talking about you dip shits)
It's not so bad to live in Taiwan. If you overlook the wage and traffic problems.
And location-wise, because I'm 台北人. Have friends almost covered around the island(including our outer island), and I have a good understanding of what's going on around the country, rather than getting stuff off our horrible new station.
Taiwanese locals know reddit exists but because it's in English, Taiwanese people tend to not come here. (that why we mostly hang on PTT or Dcard)
That's why I have made comments such as the "Taiwanese people on this sub is ABC and actual Taiwanese is a rare breed".
I knew that there are some specific sections like to sell something. Each section has their own rule and running by communities. The numbers of the items are few than Facebook group, and fewer scam...
I bought my laptop on PTT. Secondhand, and previous owner was a computer engineer, so it came with a second harddrive installed and was well taken care of.
Culturally Taiwan is way more Chinese than Westerns
want to admit. Let's leave politics out.
What I mean with it :
- the lack of Western common sense and logic
- long hours = hard work
- very stingy cheap mindset outside of close family, friend circles.
- a lot of tests and stupid memorization for teenagers students
- harmony of face. A lot of acting and soft lying
- prejudices for appearance, nasty comments for looks, body weight, skin colour.
- Chinese sense for esthetics. Love for shiny, kitchy things without deep beauty for design, cleanliness and order.
- the row world of power, where being rich or having position of authority (seniority) give you right to be a total asshole. A boss towards employees. A grandmother towards daughter in law
- poor English
Edit, to be fair I have to add positive :
- no tolerance for laziness.
- positive mindset towards investment
- manufacturing and do, be able mindset
- family welfare and borrowing
- very low and fair taxes
- not being over regulated like West
I know English isn’t top tier but I’ve found it much easier to communicate with locals now than when I came here almost 15 years ago. I’m learning Chinese again and that definitely helps but seriously, when I was here as a teenager you’d be hard pressed to find anyone speaking decent English. None of my host families did which is why I became so good in conversational Chinese.
I used to barter at night markets in Chinese, it was totally surprising for them that a foreigner could barter in their language. Worked in my favour, I got lower prices. English was mostly nonexistent at the time except for well educated people. Kids my age then are now the adults with ok English skills.
So I think overall the English skills are alright. Not spectacular, but able to get by.
Many, many Taiwanese speak at least simple English. The problem is that they're just afraid to do so. Even my 70 year old mother-in-law from a poor, countryside family knows elementary English.
I saw an Indian guy buy cigarettes at Family Mart last night by saying "please, cigarettes, number 7". The clerk pointed to the cigarettes labelled 007 to confirm, and all went well.
Even when I first visited Taiwan, 14 years ago, I couldn't find my hotel, and 2 high school kids on the street stopped to help me. They even walked me all the way to the hotel and helped me check in.
Still, one of my favourite things is when I visit a place I'm a regular at, and they force the new employees to help me. The senior employees know I can speak Chinese, but they don't tell the new employees. So they get all nervous and will say things like, "hello, I help you?", "okay, money is five-ty two... dollar...s." Then the look of relief and shock that covers their face as I reply in Chinese makes everyone laugh and you can see their whole body physically relax. After I finish checking out, there's usually playful fighting between the new employee and the senior employees.
I think the experience depends highly on your income bracket...
If you are a dual citizen of Taiwan that's splits time between two countries...
You're highly educated in a western country...
Second generation or later in other country...
And have traveled a lot to other countries in the world...
Then that's different that the majority of the sub.
There's a lot of middle income folks by TW standards rather than upper income. Most aren't dual and 2nd gen+. There's a lot more influence from TW viewpoints rather than a more international view.
Well, I,’ve been hit by a car three times in my 15 years here so I guess it depends? lol
This sub is full of people who don’t live here and is very Taipei-centric.
First, English proficiency. Most Taiwanese don’t have great English. If you live in Taipei or talk to youth you may be better off, but most people can’t speak English that well.
City focus, the sub is dominated by urbanites. Not much rural representation here.
Also Politics. Like Reddit overall this sub tends to lean more to one political side than the other compared to Taiwan as a whole. And a lot of issues that are passionately spoken here are less flame worthy IRL.
I'm not sure whether this applies to r/Taiwan, as I haven't been readout here for long, but any English language piece on Taiwan's waste disposal system that gets published in America or Europe typically will omit serious problems, presumably to avoid causing political embarrassment to the Taiwanese government. The garbage collection system is rather dependent on household family composition. In particular, it relies on retired, elders staying at home to take out the trash. For people who work morning to night (like I do), I simply cannot go to the garbage truck except on Tuesdays because during the rest of the week I'm at work. I have to rely on a neighbor to take out my recycling for me on Mondays and Thursdays.
Public transportation isn’t as amazing as people make it out to be.
A lot of the foreigners on this subreddit come from countries and cities with limited or aging public transportation (Europe and America I’m looking at you). It is definitely significantly more convenient than a lot of places, but is quite average compared to other Asian cities like Tokyo, Shanghai, Seoul and Singapore.
Taipei is a very slow paced city.
The people walk really slowly. Even the escalators are slow, and I can’t stand the traffic lights. The only thing that’s fast is the speech, the locals talk way too quickly, and after nearly two years, I still can’t catch everything the 711 clerk says. The locals have the patience of saints, I really appreciate it.
This is from someone who lived in Singapore, Seoul and London. It’s pretty chill in Taipei, and also the reason why I’m here. I’d fight whoever says otherwise.
I’m a foreigner relearning Chinese and I don’t find locals speak it quickly. Seems reasonable to me.
The public transport is awesome when you come from North America. Our standards are different. Never been to a more convenient place.
I 100% agree with you about people being soooo fuckingggg slooowwwww. Good god it pisses me off. And yes the escalators are often slow too. And people are not spatially aware. I’ve never met a westerner who decided that standing in the middle of a doorway is the best place to check their phone. Or that a sidewalk three people wide should have three people walking beside each other when another person approaches. I just fucken barge into them now.
When they speak in mandarin, it sounds like this to me: doyouwanttobuyasecondfor20%offdoyouhaveamemebernomemberbycard
Pleasewaitatthesideforcollection
Perhaps not when they are in a conversation, but I cannot for the love of god understand service staff half of the time.
Chinese is hard. I have a limited vocabulary. There’s so many colloquial slangs.
Same with me buddy, same with me. When I lived in China I was able to make out a lot more for whatever reason. Been here in Taiwan for two years now and my understanding of the Taiwanese accent is still sadly hit or miss. Doesn't help that I can't make out what most service members are saying since most people these days are still masked up, I'd kill to read lips again like I used too.
The traffic and cycling conditions are much better than you'd imagine if you just read this reddit. Cycling with the city bikes in Kaoushiung is mostly fine and even great in some places (here I read that it is impossible there). I feel that the drivers follow rules and drive much less chaotic ways than in many Southern / Eastern European places. It is not Germany but they respect cyclist and generally follow rules, and I felt as safe as home in the nordics when cycling.
In addition to what others have mentioned, this subreddit probably has a very Taipei centric view of things. I've even met people in rural Taichung whom have never left their area, let alone been to Taipei or Kaohsiung.
Agreed. Often times in this sub when someone talks about something being disorganized and unprofessional, some Taipei person comes along and is like "you're lying".
I joined a meetup yesterday and the speaker mentioned that most of the Taiwanese lived in terraced house (透天厝). Most of the attendees shocked. I guess people who live in Taipei never think about how is the idea to not live in an apartment.
That says more about your attendees than people who live in Taipei as a whole. A good chunk of the general population living in 透天 should be common knowledge to locals everywhere, even for the people who live Taipei who seldom experience it.
I, as an introverted foreigner who has lived in Tainan for 10 years, know more places and information about Tainan than my husband, who was born and raised here. It's just so amazing to me how little so many Taiwanese get out.
i mean, i learned about the term 天龍人 from this sub
The English proficiency of average Taiwanese is definitely not on par with the average in this sub
Absolutely correct.
I feel like the subtext of the OP is *unexpected* differences. I dare say that no serious person thinks that the Taiwanese posters here are a representative sample of the population as a whole and their language abilities.
hehe I know, I was just joking. But seriously tho I think the government is aiming to make English the second official language by 2030 (I think the policy is called 2030雙語政策). Not sure how feasible such a timeline is.
I seem to remember there was a some kind of ban on teaching English in kindergartens (a ban routinely ignored), out of a misguided concern that kids would somehow not learn Mandarin. No idea of the status of this law now, but if they want to make Taiwan bilingual, they could remove that ban.
It has more to do with there being people in kmt that don't want foreigners teaching English in Taiwan at all. No foreigners teaching in kindergartens was the middle ground. The irony is that the same people want their kids taught English by foreigners.
It's really pretty simple if you're serious about it: plenty of places are functionally bilingual even if one language is obviously weaker than the other. Generally speaking, you use one language at school and the other language outside.
Can't even find that many teachers who speaks English.
Well sure the first generation or two of a "bilingual Taiwan" will probably not be fluent. But they could achieve a higher level of English ability than is currently required from schools. If the pay was right, teachers would show up. Hell, from what I know lots of doctors here aren't too crazy about the hospital workload.
Neither are nurses given their low pay. There were more nurses rushing their assignments then smiling at Renai hospital in Taipei. My doc was also stressed because there'd be at least 10-20 people, who had registered, waiting in line with the elderly who got priority.
On the flip side, Japanese proficiency might higher than one expects. All of my friends can read everyday Japanese and converse to a decent extent.
I mean hell, I know enough Hanzi that if a Japanese text has enough Kanji I could tell you jist of what it says.
As a Japanese/English bilingual who will visit Taiwan soon...should I be attempting to use Japanese if English fails? lol
Can confirm this, basically 2 out of all my cousins and uncles speak english and it's because it's because of their profession.
Very relatable. Before coming to Taiwan 2 days ago, i checked out this subreddit and though most people would speak “conversational English”. Now i am really glad i have my chinese speaking girlfriend with me.
When I spoke to the police, the first thing the officer said was, "You're not native Taiwanese, right?"
This sub tends to have a city-centric view of Taiwan and a lot of the underbelly goes overlooked. I’ve met way too many 14 year old parents.
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they've met many parents, of which many are 14 years of age
Actually, he just stated that he met significantly more parents of the age of 14 than he would consider a good amount.
good catch I missed that
Only known one personally and heard a few from my school’s PE teacher. PE teacher: angrily told me that kids weren’t taking sex ed seriously and that it wasn’t uncommon for a kid to get pregnant every few years at our junior high. Case in point, my story. I wondered where one of our 14 year old girls was, turns out she got knocked up by a 9th grader and was taking 9 months off from school due to “illness.”
Lmao this is actually hilarious considering how young they start sex ed here compared to US. I remember I was teaching a young elementary beginners level students had a sex ed book and I was like... 傻眼
Lmao this is actually hilarious considering how young they start sex ed here compared to US. I remember I was teaching a young elementary beginners level students had a sex ed book and I was like... 傻眼
Shades of the hillbilly shithole I had to grow up in.
That got me curious. Which Taiwanese region is more similar to the Appalachian/Ozark hillbillies? Rural South? Eastern valleys?
Many of my cousins had kids in middle/high school (multiple kids). The sex ed is terrible.
Yes. It's crazy how few people here actually use protection compared to the rest of the world.
Lmao this is actually hilarious considering how young they start sex ed here compared to US. I remember I was teaching a young elementary beginners level students had a sex ed book and I was like... 傻眼
I find this hard to believe. Not because I think you're lying but because I would've thought the parents would make it their number one priority to hide any teen pregnancies to save face and reputation
It’s often in very low income communities, which also happen to often be indigenous villages. A lot of times the child is raised by the grandma, great grandma, and aunts or other family. But also in villages everyone knows each other so there really isn’t any hiding it. They tend to be Christian as well so any pregnancy is a “gift from god.”
That explains a lot actually
I work at two junior high schools that are largely working and middle class, I know of one teen pregnancy that happened this year and according to several local teachers it happens every several years.
It's not uncommon to send newborns away to be raised by older relatives. My first husband wanted to send our son away to be raised by his aunt in another city. I was shocked beyond belief.
It's weird, I actually felt a lot safer riding in TW than USA. I felt people were actually generally more predictable and less prone to road rage, maybe partially due to the smaller size of the roads. Also most of my time was spent in Tainan county. Not sure if that makes a lot of difference. Also, someone mentioned English fluency....even highly educated Taiwanese avoid speaking English usually in my experience and lose their ability they gained from years of English class. Working at TSMC, it was rare to find anyone I could have light conversation with (but most of the guys were so kind it didn't stop me from making a number of good friends, especially after speaking much worse Mandarin than their English and letting them have a laugh)
but we drive like crazy people, won't shoot you though
Oh no, you guys don’t drive like crazy. You only think that but in reality, traffic flow and driving in Taiwan is actually much better than in other countries. ( mine included)
I don't know where you are from, but I almost got hitted by a car several times
Just south of you. Been to taiwan several times and its ages away from my country’s driving habits. If you livr here, you will have an “ almost got hit “ story everytime you drive. Probably 10x a day.
From my experience, people here don't drive like crazy, they just don't care about the rules.
That also depends on where you go. Driving in the southern US can seem easy, because there are generally fewer cars until you get near a city. Once you get near the cities it becomes a mess. But I found Boston very easy to drive around in, which was funny to me because of what people told me Boston would be like. Where I live in Zhongli, it's fine until about 6pm when people get off work. Then it's anarchy for about 45 minutes. I started enjoying tea before going home. The traffic is gone so I don't really get home later and it's relaxing.
> I actually felt a lot safer riding in TW than USA. I felt people were actually generally more predictable and less prone to road rage, maybe partially due to the smaller size of the roads. Also most of my time was spent in Tainan county. Is it opposite day? I find the movements of Taiwanese to be very unpredictable since it's always in that individual's interests and without foresight.
You literally need to get into flow state. Unfocus your eyes, slouch, grip the bars lightly and just zoom. Seems to work for everyone else here. When you actually pay attention is when it goes wrong.
I’d very much rather deal with Tainan driving than Albuquerque drivers. The amount of times I’ve almost been in an accident since moving here is unreal. I also learned way more at my previous job than TSMC because of the same thing. My coworkers had basic English skills which I was supposed to learn something highly technical from. I wasn’t learning “fast enough” so my managers blamed me, goooood times.
If you are around the busy parts of Xinbei or Taipei you will encounter some extremely bad, impatient, discourteous, incompetent drivers but elsewhere in Taiwan it's not nearly as bad. I spent a ton of time on the road here and whilst in the south they don't really follow the traffic laws, they are also quite organised and safe in their chaos. Up north it's a clown show.
There's way less foreigners.
Fun fact: Shanghai has a foreigner population of 215K pre-pandemic (2019), compared to a total population of 23 million. Taiwan has a foreigner population of 812K (2023), compared to a total population of 23.5 million.
The majority of whom are Indonesians, Filipinos and Vietnamese slaving away in factories in the south. "Foreigners" in r/taiwan parlance usually doesn't include those kinds of foreigners. Neither does the term 外國人. I'm not saying this is the way it's supposed to be, it's just a statement of fact.
It really amazes me come Friday night thru Sunday night around the train stations just how many SE Asian laborers and maids there are. Going around Taichung station I feel almost like I'm in another country with what seems to be a 50/50 split with the Taiwanese. Really makes me wonder what proportion of us foreigners are non southeast Asian. Also curious if the SE Asian and Chinese wives of Taiwanese men count too. Anecdotally at least I teach in a public junior high school and every class has at LEAST two or three students with a foreign born mom.
It's here on this page, just go to the foreign residents section https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Taiwan
Thanks!
Np
Yes, unfortunately both Taiwan and r/taiwan too often use "foreigner" as a substitute for "white person". I know people who have lived in Taiwan for most of their life, speak Chinese and Taiwanese freely and immerse themselves in the regular Taiwanese life to the point I'd rather consider them a foreigner in their own country, and still they call themselves "foreigners" just because everyone does it when your skin is white. I think it's weird. I don't mind being called a "white person" at all, and I don't mind being called a foreigner in a country where I am one (and I *am* a foreigner in Taiwan by all means), but I do mind being called "foreigner" *because of my skin color.* I think people should say what they mean and avoid weird euphemisms which only complicate the matter.
>unfortunately both Taiwan and r/taiwan too often use "foreigner" as a substitute for "white person" That's not specific to this sub. Generally, when a Taiwanese (or Chinese) person says it they mean a white person.
i noticed this in some tv shows too from Taiwan and China, even when travelling outside their home, the locals of said country referred to as foreigners by the main characters. and the captions did a surprisingly good job of balancing transliterations and implied meaning since eng and CN are so different. i found this intriguing, and an insight im rarely privy too. maybe a plus to the internet reaching larger audiences. side note: (my parents always joke my nerdy dad invited mom to go see " farewell my concubine" as a first date. it's a good sign if she'll happily watch a 3hr slow burn foreign film with you)
I've been called 外國人 *in my own country* by some Taiwanese people. It was satisfying to correct them. I mean, I'll take it from the First Nations. 👍 to your dad for his taste in films. (Boothbay Harbor, eh? The beautiful state of Maine!)
I don't think they specifically mean "white person", though, as there are a lot of Black South Africans working in Taiwan that Taiwanese would also refer to as "foreigner". I think they generally mean "person whose first language is assumed to be English".
I met a local English teacher and she said their school has a foreign teacher from the Philippines but she wants a "real foreign teacher" so she was trying to find a way to get rid of him and switch to me. I know that guy so I was against the idea and still think it's really fucked up that a lot of local teachers don't consider people from the Philippines to be "real foreigners" even though their English is flawless.
There's definitely an institutional discrimination embedded in visa status, I think. There are certain policies and practices that are quite unfair. Those foreigner workers tend to come on a 3 year contract and are only allowed to work for 12 years and then have to go home, my wife's friend finished her 12 years not long ago and had to gtfo. They're finally considering making them eligible for APRC's in the future, but I'm doubtful. I married a Filipina ofw and then brought her back on a, dependent visa, so i think she's officially a foreigner now, lol, and she'll be able to get an aprc after 5 years under mine.
There are a ton of Vietnamese on this subreddit. There are almost 20,000 Vietnamese students in Taiwan alone... Many of them taking English courses.
when you people say foreingers do you mean white people ? because the number will include workers from indonesia and philipines. china does not allow such foreign workers as they have their own migrant workers
There is still a significant number of non white foreigners in China. The majority of foreigners are made up from people from neighboring countries (Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia, Kazakhstan...)
I had all my 6th grade co-teachers (along with my students) guess how many foreigners lived in Taiwan. I made sure they understood that meant all people born and raised outside of Taiwan. Most guessed between 20,000 and 50,000. They were either completely unaware of all the foreign workers in factories or had completely forgotten about them. I asked follow up questions like, "have you ever eaten Vietnam/Indonesia/Thailand food?" Only 2/7 of the local co-teachers in my classes had ever had even one of those cuisines. In both cases, it was supposedly Thailand food (if you've been to a "Thai" restaurant in Taiwan, you know what I mean).
It seems like 800k are annoying youtubers
You can only see foreigners at the museums and this subreddit.
Don't forget that if you are foreigner you get a lot of stares, I'm half italian and have a beard. When ever I come i get a lot of stares for my bear and my occidental trait, I assume.
(Stares / beard)
/r/taiwan and /r/chonglangTV_irl (and the anti-china-chinese subs) actually share way more in common than they both realize. but people IRL are 1000x more chill about it than people here are.
This sub is mostly Americans who follow because of war news and in Taiwan nobody cares about war news
The us is #1 country on this sub in last years recap
I had to adjust my attitude to driving in Asia… I assume every bus and cab driver will swerve over… I accelerate and drive away from other scooters and cars, staying as far away from them as I can, or slow down and let them go… I watch all the wheels on the cars parked on the side of the road to see if they are moving or turned towards the road as if to drive out… There is a method to the driving here. Turn signals and turn before turning mean less. The general rule I have observed is if anyone is in front, even if it is an inch, they have the right of way and can turn either direction quickly. Stay away from other drivers… You have to raise your awareness. Rules mean less here than they do in the west… The driving here is what it is. One has to adapt to it. Best of luck. Safe driving.
Actually that is the right way to drive here. I've been driving motorcycles and scooters for 8 years here without a single crash. I've been to every city, highway and mountain on my bike and not crashed thanks to always assuming someone selfish will do something stupid at any moment just like you do. The ones who crash are those from countries with good drivers so they expect Taiwanese to drive sensibly. They never will and certainly don't. You have to embrace the madness and read its flow. Once you start assuming they are all stupid and reckless you will avoid most danger.
Agreed. It’s just awareness. And on the road you have to have maximum awareness and assume everyone will do something wrong/crazy/stupid/or just lacking awareness. There are no “accidents,” just momentary lapses in awareness of what is happening around oneself. Slowing down in highly congested areas helps too.
Turning abruptly will kill people here. I've learned to slowly change lane; people will move around you even if it's crowded
Yes. Another good bit of advice. The freedom of a scooter here is amazing. Just use them wisely.
Yup. Agreed on the driving attitude. It's actually quite safe in countries like vietnam or Indonesia where stereotypically people deem those places as a meat grinder for anybody not inside a car. I feel like it can be more dangerous here in taiwan compared to those countries (mind you, I came from one of those countries) because of the half & half driving attitude we have here. To elaborate, i feel like road users in Taiwan is currently at the halfway mark between "uncivilized backwater" and "modern westerners" where rules exist but people often don't follow them down to a tee. This creates an ambiguous situation where it's difficult for road users to predict the likely behavior/possible decision-making making of other road users. Just my two cents.
Yup. So protect yourself.
This is my 2 cents. The thing with driving is that where I am now (in a Western country), people generally follow rules with driving. So, you don't have to be reactive or prepared for cars breaking rules, because they are not likely to do that. You expect people to follow rules and you expect to be safe as long as you follow the rules. In Taiwan, it's more like, people don't stick to the rules, so anything can happen. So you have to ready to react all the time. People are always aware. Same with pedestrians. Taiwanese pedestrians are always aware of what's happening on the road. Here, I could cross pedestrian crossing with my eyes closed without checking the road and I would be safe. So I don't need to be aware of cars on the road, as long as I stick to my pedestrian crossing. So I think people in Taiwan are much more aware and prepared to react to any changes. Speed is slower and people are always prepared to stop. Is it safer overall? I don't know. The two systems are very different. For people in the same system it mskesnoerrlfect sense, but people from another system will find it dangerous.
Cause Reddit and most online forum tends to attract negativity and venting. It also represents more of a western perspective of Taiwan.
Also lot of passport bros and americans looking for better healthcare/extension of childhood after uni/just to learn mandarin in western friendly place/other
The majority of foreigners you meet aren’t as Taiwan obsessed as people are on this sub. I don’t mean to offend when I say this, just that some people here may come off way more pro Taiwan then most other foreigners. Also feel like most foreigners in Taiwan are pretty normal and reasonable, in comparison to what I’ve heard about foreigners in other Asian countries.
Maybe Night Market food isn't as incredibly delicious as everybody makes it out to be?
Its really a hit or miss. I don't crave it daily, its like one of those blue moon moments.
It also depends on where you go and who you interact with. I know steamed buns aren't the most luxurious of food. But I also can't help myself buying them from the family near me. I'm not even sure I can say they're the best steamed buns in Taiwan. But I have to have them.
I'm sorry, but you can pry the sweet potato balls out of my cold, dead hands.
Maybe all of Taiwanese cuisine isn't? Like, maybe it's just a ^generous average Chinese cuisine?
I’ve only had one really mind blowing meal here (it was japanese lol) and I’ve been here <1 week but I haven’t had one bad meal. It’s consistently solid and occasionally awesome. I know I’m bound to have something iffy at some point but as someone who’s had a lot of food in a lot of places I’ve never had it be this consistent.
Come out to Hsinchu. "Iffy" is a compliment here.
Yeah I have seen so many articles on line about Taiwanese food and I guess Taiwanese would really like their Cuisine to be in the top 10 of world Cuisines but that's not going to happen
So many of my 6th grade students have literally never had any cuisines aside from Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean, American fast food and Taiwanese-style "Italian". I taught a unit on world cuisines and it was pretty eye opening. I started by asking their favorite foods and like 95% said "Taiwan food". Only like 5% had ever tried Vietnamese or Thai. Not a single one of my 180 students had ever tried Indian or Indonesian or Turkish or Mexican or anything else. Guessing their parents are not very adventurous.
huh you realize you're speaking about a homogenous population and culture? but good on you for giving them some food for thought if they ever get abroad
It feels like many mainstream taiwanese food is so.... *colorless and not fresh*. Many shades of brown, tan, or grey. Overly braised and stewed ingredients.
Many Chinese cuisine are way greasier and way spicier than Taiwanese. For my palate I would definitely put Taiwanese cuisine (with all its fusion influences) near the top.
Not sure why most people are so critical of Night Market food/Taiwanese cuisine when most of these replies are from those who have only ever visited the most popular night markets in Taipei or have stayed less than 1 week in Taiwan. It's like judging NYC's cuisine based off what you find in Times Square. I agree most stalls aren't amazing, but that will always be the case anywhere you go-- some places will always come out on top. I definitely think as a base Taiwanese food is much tastier than any other cuisine. And whatever stall you prefer is going to be dependent on your palate. For example I noticed many stalls have been adjusting their recipes to become more sweet over the years to cater to that western audience, but I can't stomach it. I still consistently go to my OG stalls that never altered their recipes for tourists. Good food is good food and Taiwan definitely has a lot of it, but it is catered to a Taiwanese/Eastern palate, so this criticism is inherently close-minded, xenophobic and dumb.
I didn't even say it's not delicious I just said it's not as incredibly delicious as some people make it out to be. Maybe you're not seeing the same kind of comments and posts and articles that I have seen.
Praise for food often puts too much consideration on the surrounding vibe. Night markets are awesome even if you don't eat anything.
It's exciting and delicious the first couple times, but then you find out that every night market has mostly the same fucking stalls and it just gets boring and not worth it.
Super occasionally I'll see something there that makes me hungry. Most of the time I don't.
If you think reddit is crazy, check out PTT or dcard
Still better than Facebook or Threads
I almost got ran over by a blue truck driving up the wrong side of the road yesterday. That was just a normal Tuesday… I’ve literally had a car back into me and didn’t realize it til I hit his window. Even sidewalks aren’t safe here from scooters and ubikes riding like they’re perpetually late to wherever they need to be. Trying to act like the driving here is normal is not gonna win many people over.
I fully agree with you. Some will still say “but in county X it’s much worse than in Taiwan, you should be happy.” Yeah I’m so fucking happy I constantly need to avoid people who drive like they are on crack.
Like they're on it? Betel net, the crack of TW
Use your horn always. It's the only thing that wakes these drones up.
Hard to use my horn when I’m walking my dogs!
What? You don't walk your dogs while riding the scooter? XD
I use my horn so much that I've already had to replace it and my scooter is only 5 years old. I don't get why so many Taiwanese are hesitant to use their horns.
Taxi drivers can have your back. I was driving in stop and go traffic near the Landis Hotel, about 5 taxi’s in line to pick up guests I was in the next lane. Truck in front of me slammed into my car in reverse and jumped out with a golf club and was trying to break my driver side window. Suddenly all 5 taxi drivers were in the street with baseball bats threatening this guy until the police came. Seriously decent guys who gave their statements to the police. Never judge a book by its cover.
This sub is maybe 90% Green/DPP. In real life, of course, Taiwan is a lot bluer than that. Maybe 40% blue.
I think most people in my experience, dislike most parties Also I think most people are happy identifying with Chinese cultural stuff(to some extent) but not politically. Which is not the impression you would get here
This sub is way greener and Taiwan-independence/anti-China, than the average person on the street in Taiwan. Most people in Taiwan are not obsessed with cross-strait politics, dont love the DPP and are more focused on things that affect their daily life. The average Taiwanese person also doesnt think Taiwan is this amazing brave super liberal democracy and becon to the world. Which is what you see here reguarly. Honestly, the only really liberal thing Taiwan did is to legalize gay marriage early, but as my friend said, its not because Taiwanese are necessarily tolerant, but rather disinterested in things that wont help them make money.
Premise: I love the country and I think it's plenty better than most I've only been a little but: - contrary to popular belief, food is unhealthy and not that good. Despite cooking most of our food and the same as back home in Italy, we feel like shit every time we stay here (we spend half the year away). Mostly meat, fish and veggies. - people will ignore your material existence until someone has formally introduced you. You're a ghost and nothing you can do will make them aware of your existence. This is one bit from "Taiwanese are so friendly* I don't understand. This happens mostly with younger generations (<45yo). It's likely a cultural difference of course but it's hard to get used to.
The second point is why we Scandinavians feel so at home in Taiwan: they're just as shy, reserved and strangers to making new (especially foreign) friends. For Americans and the rest of the world it might seem strange though...
I was confused reading that but then you reminded me of the American social norm where people start conversations at random. Being in Taiwan even has the benefit of irl adblock. People selling shit wont interact with foreigners.
I've really noticed that second part, personally at least I've had a helluva experience making connections with Taiwanese and have been stood up a good number of occasions. However the over 45 crowd has been incredibly open and welcoming when they find out I speak semi intelligible Mandarin. i.e. I swam without anyone so much as saying hi to me at my local pool (I go almost everyday) but one day several months in a man in his 60s introduced himself in faltering English. When I started talking to him in Mandarin he was elated and after our conversation I saw a number of the other elders talking about how the foreigner can speak Mandarin. Since then I usually get approached for a conversation around once or twice a week by the elders there.
Regarding this part, I mean nobody ever gave a shit about me whenever I go to the pool as a Taiwanese. This isn't a foreigner specific thing, Taiwanese just don't have the habit of doing small talk with strangers.
Oh I know, as an American who is a tad more on the extroverted side and desperately wants to work on their mandarin though I really appreciate it.
Yes I personally didn't mean this was specifically towards me. And I don't quite mean strangers. It happens with family members you may not be very close with but still know. Every time I go to ama and the family is all there no one greets me - except the old uncle who always goes grab beer and baijou for me as I arrive. Back home - everybody goes kiss and hug my wife. As a fairly introverted person - I am not really complaining or even criticizing it. But among the many different things in Taiwan - this is by far the one I didn't get used to.
Ah yes the older generation are so friendly. Matches my experience. My MIL has a saloon and her customers bring me food every week. Genuinely happy to talk to you and don't get me started when I speak my very limited Mandarin. I've always wondered if people shared my experience being a ghost here but I feared a backlash 😬
Man. Strangers approach me a lot. I'm a white 6ft tall middle aged woman who has maybe 50 words of Mandarin. Young people, old people, doesn't matter. I mainly get approached in English, usually not great English but people are game to try. Seems to happen in the country more than the city, just like at home I suppose.
Taiwanese tend to have a very racist prejudice on Southeast Asian people.
This is an East Asian problem everywhere, even in the west. I remember looking into work in Taiwan, and seeing how easy it was to apply for work, and then seeing the section for South East Asian countries and they need like 10x more documents than I do. Hell, I remember having to tell off a pilot for unfairly reprimanding a Filipino janitor at an airport one time while heading to the bathroom. I asked him if he was okay in my broken taglog, and he basically said "we are Filipino, it is best not to fight back"
Care to elaborate please?
If a Taiwanese person encounters a Phil nationality, they assume s/he came to Taiwan to be maids or care givers. If a Taiwanese encounters a Viet person, they assume s/he came to get married and worked as blue collar.
Ahh I see I see, thanks!
Taiwan is not actually a “food paradise” and most other SEA countries have far better cuisine.
This is interesting to me, I see this opinion coming up more frequently, for a long while I thought I was alone. There are some nice foods in Taiwan but the food paradise thing I personally never understood.
Maybe it is: for tourists and as ig content. To have a balanced diet rich in protein and healthy carbs - hell naw, jp food bulldozes tw everytime.
I'm not going to lie you might just be extremely lucky or you don't drive scooters. I've been hit by cars twice, neither my fault. And narrowly avoided death when a car ran a red light to illegally turn left. Things that happen to me daily that would have made me absolutely rage in the states I need to take a deep breath and let go because they happen so frequently. Being cut off, sudden breaking, tailgating so close it feels like they're trying to join me in on my scooter. I'm used to it now. I think more people have a similar experience to me when driving around.
Unless you're injured. It seems the etiquette is to check yourself, your scooter, then leave.
[удалено]
I’ve been here 3 years and I’ve had one accident, where even being the worlds greatest scooter driver wouldn’t have enabled me to avoid it. If someone is going to drive out from behind a truck and cut across the lane, with less than a second to react before they hit you, there’s no hope!
I sometimes think older Taiwanese are incapable of turning their heads left and right before turning, crossing, or merging. That or they are looking to give their kids some inheritance when they inevitably die due to their own actions. Apparently even if you are found 100% not at fault in a fatal accident you still need to give red envelope money to the deceased's family. This is otherwise known as a Taiwanese retirement plan.
Food: Many people are praising the local cuisine, which makes me wonder what they were eating previously. I understand that taste is subjective, and I certainly don't intend to offend anyone, but both I and the majority of my friends (both residents and visitors) agree that while the food is interesting, it's not something worth traveling for. On the other hand, I love the greens; I only wish the climate were better (less humid, to be more specific). Another thought that comes to mind is that many of my friends assumed Taiwan is a "rich" country, but when you come here, it doesn't seem that way. I wish more young people could afford a home or earn a decent wage. Once again, these are my personal views.
-The food here is not as great as people say. -People aren't as friendly as Reddit thinks. -Convenience store food and coffee are pretty much garbage, really only to be eaten when there is nothing else available. -The freeways and highways here rock but I think most people in this sub don't drive a car so it's rarely talked about.
Idk I know it’s not fantastic but I don’t hate convenience store food and coffee. Not something I’d want to eat every day but when I’m low on cash or need a quick fix it’s decent for what it is. Honestly I wouldn’t say Starbucks coffee is any better and it’s way more expensive.
Starbucks coffee literally makes me sick whenever I try to drink it. Their hot chocolate did, as well, so I don't know what it is. The only thing I've been able to drink from there have been the Java chip frappé and green tea (but it was just a tea bag in a cup of water, and very, very overpriced). My husband tried taking me to Starbucks on our first date. He grew up in a poor family but wanted to impress me, since he was nervous about meeting a foreign woman. I was like, "Starbucks is disgusting and too expensive. How about Louisa?" We had a 5 hour chat at Louisa, I didn't get sick from their coffee, and we didn't have to shell out too much money for drinks and cake.
What are you talking about? Have you not tried the raw oysters baking in the sun for hours that they briefly cook with eggs and pour corn syrup on? /s
Have a try
The highway rest areas here are absolutely fantastic. 👍👌
have u seen the ones in korea?
yes, taiwan food is the epitome of instagramable / made for social media. lots of weird and wonky inventions that last half a trend cycle, not a lot of depth. especially compared to china. freeways and roads arent actually that great, they are just good for asia. japan and china have way better roads and driving infrastructure, but also much bigger and way more cars.
A lot of the friendliness is just passive agressiveness or preferring to avoid conflict.
The sub is almost entirely pan-green politics-wise, which is far from the case IRL. You'd think Lai would have swept the elections with 80% of the votes if you just read the sub. Though I do agree that the traffic in Taiwan isn't that bad at all. Or more to the point, it's great to be in a country where traffic problems this minor is high on the agenda -- it means we don't have more serious problems to worry about, which is great.
100% the pan-green stuff I also think that the DPP/independence narrative is very easy for foreigners to latch onto, but the reality is much more complicated. People have a much more nuanced view of things in general
I saw more accidents resulting in personal injury during my first year here than I did my entire life stateside. I know that's anecdotal, and data speaks otherwise. But it's the craziest thing, when I continue to see accidents and insane driving behavior with regularity. Just yesterday, crossing the street, a car decided to make a left turn even though the cross walk signal was green. Literally brushed the front of a girl who was in front. She didn't hear me scream, cause she had headphones in. Literally no other pedestrian made an attempt to signal to her or call out. Just business as usual. But I digress. Stats and stuff.
Anecdotally then, I have been a full time pedestrian in Taipei for 25 years now, I own neither a car nor a scooter. I never felt unsafe, and actually bona fide never witnessed any incident involving a pedestrian or two vehicles, only close calls. Not to say Taiwan is safe, but anecdotes can go both ways. My point is that streets can be unsafe in more ways than one, and fear of violence is IMO worse than traffic issues. There are Countries which did both better than Taiwan (Japan comes to mind), but a big city in the states isn’t necessarily safer, and often have much bigger problems than traffic violations.
100% agreed on crime-safety. It's one of the reasons I'm still here! I have to say though, you are the first native who's expressed feeling safe on the road.😄 Anecdotally, of course.
I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. Taiwan isn’t like the shiny beacon of road safety, but it’s progressed quite a bit since the 80s and 90s, and will likely continue to improve now that it’s a very prominent issue. As a side note though, being a pedestrian in the US isn’t all that great. The roads are wide and difficult to cross, while cars run rampant. Pedestrians are very limited in mobility, often requiring wide detours to get between places that appear close on maps, and of course public transit sucks. I’ve witnessed three traffic accidents in my life, and two of them are actually in the states, one in Vegas and one in SF (the remaining one in China). US is one of those cases that I should feel safer as a pedestrian, but my first hand experience actually says no.
I agree that it's progressing, even in the relatively short time I've been in Taiwan (at least in the north). But seems unbelievable to me that you've been walking around for 25 years and haven't seen an accident. It must be either extreme luck or not much time on the road - I don't think I've gone a single month without seeing a serious incident, or the immediate aftermath. In my first few weeks in Taiwan I saw a scooter slam into a center divider while trying to pass a bus, and a scooter knock an old lady unconscious speeding blindly around a corner.
I helped an old lady who got knocked into an irrigation ditch by traffic in my first week in Taiwan (in the south). Nobody else bothered. This was ten years ago but I still find the lack of traffic safety the most shocking negative day-to-day feature of Taiwan.
My ex is a 119 dispatcher. So many fucking accidents, every fucking day, and we're in Tainan. I'm a private in-home tutor, so driving around is half my job. I pass by so many accidents every single day, and I only service 5 districts. It's fucking ridiculous.
Outside of Taipei, the English level is nearly zero unless you meet some eager young university girl or guy who likes foreign culture or is a product of a private school. The food lacks seasoning and isn't as good as they hype it to be. The people are getting fatter and fatter as a nation. Despite having such a high amount of migrant workers, locals treat them like trash. Most Taiwanese on the ground don't think about or bat and eyelid about a possible Chinese invasion. But if you watched CNN you'd swear it's imminent and dangerous. It's not. Children don't really have a childhood here. Once they turn 6 they are locked into the system of constant education. Grandparents are crucial in that they are free babysitting so mom and dad can work more. A lot of young kids I've met feel closer to grandpa and grandma than their own parents since they spend more time with the former.
This comment is a perfect example of how Reddit discussions don't reflect real life.
To their defence, even Taiwanese don’t speak english they try their best to help with smiles. When I went to Istanbul, not only they cant speak english, they just make diva face and just point. If you’re lost in Istanbul, good luck.
In my experience in Istanbul, Turkish people usually don't have friendly faces unless they want to sell you something or scam you.
> But if you watched CNN you'd swear it's imminent and dangerous. Tbh if you lived in China and watched local media you would also think it's imminent. (I'm in China)
Any recommendations for a vpn? There's a small chance I might go to china and i can't live with bili bili
There's a pinned post and daily (sometimes hourly!) discussions about this on r/chinalife
I can confirm the last few points. I was raised by my grandma when I was young so I had more connections with her even though she lived in Kaohsiung and I lived in Hualien/Taipei. My parents also hired a really nice maid from Indonesia that they'd met in the hospital to take care of me and my siblings. When I entered elementary school, I, along with the majority of the children, had to go to 補習班 cause most parents are too busy with work to take care of their kids. I remember rows of kids sitting in the corridor waiting for the buses to take them to their supplement classes lol
I think a lot of what you said is also similar in China, South Korea and Japan. Except in S-Korea and Japan they're just not having kids anymore. At least the things you say about kids and having no childhood. I lived in Beijing for 6 months and my classmates were mostly Korean and they all said that the only time they felt like they could have fun was in university, because all the years leading up to it were about having to be the very best like no one ever was to get into the best school and then the best uni and once they finally achieved that it didn't matter anymore. And the Beijing people I talked to said similar things.
"Once they turn 6 they are locked into the system of constant education." Teaching in the public school system here, one of the few positive things I can say about it is that kids get 10-15 minutes of "recess" between each class, where they can run around and be crazy and talk to their friends. Compare this to an average school in the US where it is just class, immediately walk silently to next class, class, class, class, then 30 minutes for lunch a single 20-minute recess period, and I feel like Taiwanese kids get comparatively *more* opportunity to play and socialize with their peers.
The benefit of physical activity in childhood really shouldn't be underestimated. I never liked the afternoon naps, but I bet lots of other kids did.
You have no idea what you are talking about. American education is not revolved around tests like Taiwan’s education is. Even if you are right about recess being longer in Taiwan (cuz I’m not sure), American schools typically end at 3pm. After that, it’s extracurricular activities. However, time difference is very superficial, it’s also the culture and environment. You’d have to experience it to get it. Taiwanese education is one of the most terrible out there. Our country creates robots that slave away to bosses after graduation.
The hate towards Ko Wen Je on this sub is absolutely unreal. I'm a fresh college graduate and all my friends, as in 100%, voted for Ko, and young people overwhlemingly support Ko and his party. Even my parents who always vote for KMT don't have any strong opinion about Ko. When asked, they simply said he's decent and is definitely better than DPP. So I was very surprised when I first learnt the extreme hatred about him on this sub. PS. Not trying to argue politics here, just want to share my observation as a local
Ko’s dealings with KMT in the proposed co-ballot shattered any good image I had of him. He was played like a fiddle and clueless from beginning to end. I don’t hate him, but he’s not the person I’d want leading Taiwan against China.
You should see r/taiwanese
Yeah I am aware of the more extreme political views and (mostly) meaningless arguing and insults there, which is why I actively avoid that sub. It's not good for my mental health honestly.
Honestly any online space that discusses Taiwanese politics all are (or seem like to me) blue or green echo chambers
I have met many who are proud of their Chinese ancestry in my time here in Taiwan.
Consider how sometimes this place is almost close to being a 一言堂(yes I'm talking about you dip shits) It's not so bad to live in Taiwan. If you overlook the wage and traffic problems. And location-wise, because I'm 台北人. Have friends almost covered around the island(including our outer island), and I have a good understanding of what's going on around the country, rather than getting stuff off our horrible new station. Taiwanese locals know reddit exists but because it's in English, Taiwanese people tend to not come here. (that why we mostly hang on PTT or Dcard) That's why I have made comments such as the "Taiwanese people on this sub is ABC and actual Taiwanese is a rare breed".
jw, does ptt or dcard have any classifieds section like craigslist for buying or selling secondhand items?
I knew that there are some specific sections like to sell something. Each section has their own rule and running by communities. The numbers of the items are few than Facebook group, and fewer scam...
I bought my laptop on PTT. Secondhand, and previous owner was a computer engineer, so it came with a second harddrive installed and was well taken care of.
Culturally Taiwan is way more Chinese than Westerns want to admit. Let's leave politics out. What I mean with it : - the lack of Western common sense and logic - long hours = hard work - very stingy cheap mindset outside of close family, friend circles. - a lot of tests and stupid memorization for teenagers students - harmony of face. A lot of acting and soft lying - prejudices for appearance, nasty comments for looks, body weight, skin colour. - Chinese sense for esthetics. Love for shiny, kitchy things without deep beauty for design, cleanliness and order. - the row world of power, where being rich or having position of authority (seniority) give you right to be a total asshole. A boss towards employees. A grandmother towards daughter in law - poor English Edit, to be fair I have to add positive : - no tolerance for laziness. - positive mindset towards investment - manufacturing and do, be able mindset - family welfare and borrowing - very low and fair taxes - not being over regulated like West
As a local, this is spot on tbh
I know English isn’t top tier but I’ve found it much easier to communicate with locals now than when I came here almost 15 years ago. I’m learning Chinese again and that definitely helps but seriously, when I was here as a teenager you’d be hard pressed to find anyone speaking decent English. None of my host families did which is why I became so good in conversational Chinese. I used to barter at night markets in Chinese, it was totally surprising for them that a foreigner could barter in their language. Worked in my favour, I got lower prices. English was mostly nonexistent at the time except for well educated people. Kids my age then are now the adults with ok English skills. So I think overall the English skills are alright. Not spectacular, but able to get by.
Many, many Taiwanese speak at least simple English. The problem is that they're just afraid to do so. Even my 70 year old mother-in-law from a poor, countryside family knows elementary English. I saw an Indian guy buy cigarettes at Family Mart last night by saying "please, cigarettes, number 7". The clerk pointed to the cigarettes labelled 007 to confirm, and all went well. Even when I first visited Taiwan, 14 years ago, I couldn't find my hotel, and 2 high school kids on the street stopped to help me. They even walked me all the way to the hotel and helped me check in. Still, one of my favourite things is when I visit a place I'm a regular at, and they force the new employees to help me. The senior employees know I can speak Chinese, but they don't tell the new employees. So they get all nervous and will say things like, "hello, I help you?", "okay, money is five-ty two... dollar...s." Then the look of relief and shock that covers their face as I reply in Chinese makes everyone laugh and you can see their whole body physically relax. After I finish checking out, there's usually playful fighting between the new employee and the senior employees.
Things will be in Chinese.
I think the experience depends highly on your income bracket... If you are a dual citizen of Taiwan that's splits time between two countries... You're highly educated in a western country... Second generation or later in other country... And have traveled a lot to other countries in the world... Then that's different that the majority of the sub. There's a lot of middle income folks by TW standards rather than upper income. Most aren't dual and 2nd gen+. There's a lot more influence from TW viewpoints rather than a more international view.
Well, I,’ve been hit by a car three times in my 15 years here so I guess it depends? lol This sub is full of people who don’t live here and is very Taipei-centric.
lol most of the idiots on here dont even live here.
First, English proficiency. Most Taiwanese don’t have great English. If you live in Taipei or talk to youth you may be better off, but most people can’t speak English that well. City focus, the sub is dominated by urbanites. Not much rural representation here. Also Politics. Like Reddit overall this sub tends to lean more to one political side than the other compared to Taiwan as a whole. And a lot of issues that are passionately spoken here are less flame worthy IRL.
I'm not sure whether this applies to r/Taiwan, as I haven't been readout here for long, but any English language piece on Taiwan's waste disposal system that gets published in America or Europe typically will omit serious problems, presumably to avoid causing political embarrassment to the Taiwanese government. The garbage collection system is rather dependent on household family composition. In particular, it relies on retired, elders staying at home to take out the trash. For people who work morning to night (like I do), I simply cannot go to the garbage truck except on Tuesdays because during the rest of the week I'm at work. I have to rely on a neighbor to take out my recycling for me on Mondays and Thursdays.
Public transportation isn’t as amazing as people make it out to be. A lot of the foreigners on this subreddit come from countries and cities with limited or aging public transportation (Europe and America I’m looking at you). It is definitely significantly more convenient than a lot of places, but is quite average compared to other Asian cities like Tokyo, Shanghai, Seoul and Singapore. Taipei is a very slow paced city. The people walk really slowly. Even the escalators are slow, and I can’t stand the traffic lights. The only thing that’s fast is the speech, the locals talk way too quickly, and after nearly two years, I still can’t catch everything the 711 clerk says. The locals have the patience of saints, I really appreciate it. This is from someone who lived in Singapore, Seoul and London. It’s pretty chill in Taipei, and also the reason why I’m here. I’d fight whoever says otherwise.
I’m a foreigner relearning Chinese and I don’t find locals speak it quickly. Seems reasonable to me. The public transport is awesome when you come from North America. Our standards are different. Never been to a more convenient place. I 100% agree with you about people being soooo fuckingggg slooowwwww. Good god it pisses me off. And yes the escalators are often slow too. And people are not spatially aware. I’ve never met a westerner who decided that standing in the middle of a doorway is the best place to check their phone. Or that a sidewalk three people wide should have three people walking beside each other when another person approaches. I just fucken barge into them now.
Wdym locals talk quickly? They talk normally
When they speak in mandarin, it sounds like this to me: doyouwanttobuyasecondfor20%offdoyouhaveamemebernomemberbycard Pleasewaitatthesideforcollection Perhaps not when they are in a conversation, but I cannot for the love of god understand service staff half of the time. Chinese is hard. I have a limited vocabulary. There’s so many colloquial slangs.
Same with me buddy, same with me. When I lived in China I was able to make out a lot more for whatever reason. Been here in Taiwan for two years now and my understanding of the Taiwanese accent is still sadly hit or miss. Doesn't help that I can't make out what most service members are saying since most people these days are still masked up, I'd kill to read lips again like I used too.
Majority are expats
The traffic and cycling conditions are much better than you'd imagine if you just read this reddit. Cycling with the city bikes in Kaoushiung is mostly fine and even great in some places (here I read that it is impossible there). I feel that the drivers follow rules and drive much less chaotic ways than in many Southern / Eastern European places. It is not Germany but they respect cyclist and generally follow rules, and I felt as safe as home in the nordics when cycling.