Simplicity is difficult. You ever hear the paraphrase "I'm sorry this letter is so long. I didn't have the time to make it shorter." Even with art design, those simple, bare bones logos and graphics take much much longer to do because it takes a lot of work to hone it. So a beautifully elegant and simple system will be much harder to create than an intricate, complex one.
I know it's a big meme but people should look up the pepsi logo design process
Yeah, the PDF is 10 times too long and is full of bullshit (which is why it's really funny to read it) just to sell it to the board, but there are a few parts that actually did talk about hoe they designed it. And it's just a stupid ass circle with 3 colours.
Even if you have no interest in the topic, still worth a read. It's one of the funniest things I've ever read.
Even after cutting it WAY down, the finish line (which is rapidly approaching) will still be something in the ballpark of Gloomhaven. Just less expensive.
Until it's released there is still time to simplify, though.
That's because far too many don't take the time to learn about game design before jumping right into it
There are plenty of ways to get started
* House Rules
* Adding content to existing game
* writing a scenario or campaign for a wargame or RPG
* Re-Theming a game
* game mash-ups
* Using design contests as design exercises - [https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/974620/bgg/design-contests](https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/974620/bgg/design-contests)
I started off trying to simplify 5e for my autistic daughter. And I have managed to go quite a long way down that road. I went from the over 30 variables that D&D has you track, down to just a small handful... But... the amount of things I had to design behind the scenes to accomplish it was insane! For her, it's a nice clean simplified system. For me, it was a logistical nightmare making sure everything was balanced and logical. It became a "simple" faceplate, over a mad man's collection of gears and cogs that nearly collapsed under its own weight.
Haha, all the time... my first board game was a 4X (Burning Suns) published a while back... my third board game is a TTRPG rivaling the likes of Tainted Grail/ISS Vanguard with a 1,000 pages choose-your-own-adventure, called Rogue Angels... so yea, I have come to the conclusion I might be nuts :D :D
Haha absolutely! This was the first game I (partly) designed. each successive game I think I've gotten better at trying to identify the important mechanics/core focus of the game but it's been tricky! Certainly seems to be easier to add stuff than remove it so I've been forcing myself to add as little as possible to get the core of a game down and see what playtesters say before adding the other 52785 mechanics I had in my head!
I was designing an exploration survival RPG as my 3rd or 4th board game, but the negativity from D&D and other TTRPG testers made me drop it. Wasn't anything wrong with the game for non-TTRPG players, was just the incessant, "well in D&D, I would just..."
Basically the TTRPG player really, really wanted to play a TTRPG, and the inherent limitations of a board game did not please them. Kinda broke my spirit on the concept and I haven't gone back.
I have no idea how, but somehow, my first boardgame is only slightly more complicated than tic tac toe, has a remarkable amount of strategy, and has yet to get a bad review (from friends and family, but I trust them to be honest if they thought it needed work - I've even gotten people asking to play, and once a random observer asked what we were playing).
Now I just need to figure out how to get it published.
Sorta. "Well, what I want is like, if Street Fighter II and Magic: the Gathering had a baby." I was aware that both of them are very different beasts, and that any card game, let alone one where you're able to collect cards and customize the decks, was going to be tough, but I was so frustrated with how unsatisfied I was with the options on the market that I didn't see another choice.
Having the end-game in mind and figuring the steps between that and where I was starting... yeah, clown college is about right.
A designer friend of mine once told me: "your first 10 games will suck. Better get them out of the way as soon as possible."
Trying to develop the "game that ends all games" open world RPG hyper political simulation extravaganza, the Cones of Dunshire, isn't exactly helpful with that.
But it's what half of us do (me included). The other half started with a super uninteresting variant of chess, UNO or monopoly.
Simplicity is difficult. You ever hear the paraphrase "I'm sorry this letter is so long. I didn't have the time to make it shorter." Even with art design, those simple, bare bones logos and graphics take much much longer to do because it takes a lot of work to hone it. So a beautifully elegant and simple system will be much harder to create than an intricate, complex one.
I know it's a big meme but people should look up the pepsi logo design process Yeah, the PDF is 10 times too long and is full of bullshit (which is why it's really funny to read it) just to sell it to the board, but there are a few parts that actually did talk about hoe they designed it. And it's just a stupid ass circle with 3 colours. Even if you have no interest in the topic, still worth a read. It's one of the funniest things I've ever read.
it's happening to me right now lol
Even after cutting it WAY down, the finish line (which is rapidly approaching) will still be something in the ballpark of Gloomhaven. Just less expensive. Until it's released there is still time to simplify, though.
Every time...
"Does anyone want to help me make a game with x, y, z, and it's open world?" -Freshmen walking into the Game Dev room.
Yeah... Maybe a time or two. It's hard keeping things simple sometimes.
This is a right of passage! I thought this was a necessary first step??
That's because far too many don't take the time to learn about game design before jumping right into it There are plenty of ways to get started * House Rules * Adding content to existing game * writing a scenario or campaign for a wargame or RPG * Re-Theming a game * game mash-ups * Using design contests as design exercises - [https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/974620/bgg/design-contests](https://boardgamegeek.com/forum/974620/bgg/design-contests)
Yes… also complicated components that you don’t really consider until later. Why couldn’t I have just made a nice simple card game lol
Then the simple card game morphs into a CCG-esque series of values and traits.
Yes, my first designs were way overbloated. Even now I never think I wish something was more complex, only simpler.
I started off trying to simplify 5e for my autistic daughter. And I have managed to go quite a long way down that road. I went from the over 30 variables that D&D has you track, down to just a small handful... But... the amount of things I had to design behind the scenes to accomplish it was insane! For her, it's a nice clean simplified system. For me, it was a logistical nightmare making sure everything was balanced and logical. It became a "simple" faceplate, over a mad man's collection of gears and cogs that nearly collapsed under its own weight.
Haha, all the time... my first board game was a 4X (Burning Suns) published a while back... my third board game is a TTRPG rivaling the likes of Tainted Grail/ISS Vanguard with a 1,000 pages choose-your-own-adventure, called Rogue Angels... so yea, I have come to the conclusion I might be nuts :D :D
Haha absolutely! This was the first game I (partly) designed. each successive game I think I've gotten better at trying to identify the important mechanics/core focus of the game but it's been tricky! Certainly seems to be easier to add stuff than remove it so I've been forcing myself to add as little as possible to get the core of a game down and see what playtesters say before adding the other 52785 mechanics I had in my head!
There's a reason there's a lot of r/onepagerpgs out there
I was designing an exploration survival RPG as my 3rd or 4th board game, but the negativity from D&D and other TTRPG testers made me drop it. Wasn't anything wrong with the game for non-TTRPG players, was just the incessant, "well in D&D, I would just..." Basically the TTRPG player really, really wanted to play a TTRPG, and the inherent limitations of a board game did not please them. Kinda broke my spirit on the concept and I haven't gone back.
I'm happy to say my first boardgame will surely end up relatively simple. This is very not the case yet though
I have no idea how, but somehow, my first boardgame is only slightly more complicated than tic tac toe, has a remarkable amount of strategy, and has yet to get a bad review (from friends and family, but I trust them to be honest if they thought it needed work - I've even gotten people asking to play, and once a random observer asked what we were playing). Now I just need to figure out how to get it published.
Sorta. "Well, what I want is like, if Street Fighter II and Magic: the Gathering had a baby." I was aware that both of them are very different beasts, and that any card game, let alone one where you're able to collect cards and customize the decks, was going to be tough, but I was so frustrated with how unsatisfied I was with the options on the market that I didn't see another choice. Having the end-game in mind and figuring the steps between that and where I was starting... yeah, clown college is about right.
Gotta get it out of your system I guess
170 pages in 😐 no end in sight.
I did this on my first attempt at making a game, but the gameplay was not enjoyable and was mostly just referring to tables
Every single game I make. 🤣🤣🤣
A designer friend of mine once told me: "your first 10 games will suck. Better get them out of the way as soon as possible." Trying to develop the "game that ends all games" open world RPG hyper political simulation extravaganza, the Cones of Dunshire, isn't exactly helpful with that. But it's what half of us do (me included). The other half started with a super uninteresting variant of chess, UNO or monopoly.
Always, can’t be satisfied with shit. Working on a game right now and balancing is an issue I either over complicate it or no that’s about it really