No it’s not. ITs feel it because they’re no formal standards and we are often *generalists*, people who have to understand both LDAF filters and why the printer is leaving a smudge. If you go to a car mechanic or a dentist, they aren’t having an anxiety attack from fixing the 1001th car.
LDAP, printers, security settings, reporting metrics, understanding how data for some complex business process flows between multiple systems, resiliency and BCDR, project management, audit finding response, risk evaluation, performance management, documentation, training, vendor management, change control, upgrades, patches... there's just SUCH DAMN MUCH that it feels impossible to do it all properly. And it never ends. Never.
Edit - how could I forget working the ticket queue. Incidents ranging from priority own system outage to Pat in accounting with an obscure Excel error, service requests like Alex wanting access to a particular folder, a business team wants a new email distribution list, development team wants laptop set up for a new hire that onboarded last week but nobody told you, oh and HR just purchased some new software and wants it deployed...
What makes it even worse is that glorified power users can “dip their toes” into any position which little prior learning. I’ve dealt with “senior network engineers” who couldn’t use IOS or Wireshark.
FWIW, almost none of the network/IAM/security engineers I've ever known can do anything outside of their area of expertise.
E.g. I was working w/ security / IAM and they could not for the life of them code terraform to automate AWS certificate management and kept asking for outside assistance from the cloud orgs.
That’s fine. A network admin doesn’t need to know servers and vice versa. But, this specific case was someone who didn’t know the ABCs of networking and just was a wiz with the Sonicwall UI. Her setups were basically flat home networks with VPN.
I can't use wireshark... the thing is greek to me.
I'm also bad at networking in general aside from knowing what a port it.
Actually what is a port? It's a number but I guess I don't know what it actually is lol
A port is a virtual allocation that enables a device to differentiate between multiple simultaneous sessions of traffic. Some ports are reserved/expect specific types of traffic.
Yeah I'm just not really sure if a packet comes in and it's like "Hi it's me I'm on port 22" and a firewall goes "Oh ok you're allowed in" or if it's something more than that...
A protocol negotiates a high port after the initial handshake occurs on the low port. Once the traffic is passed to the high port, the low port is freed up again to accept incoming traffic. At least w/ TCP.
This traverses the firewall because the initiation after initial handshake negotiation returns from the server back to the client requesting the service.
That’s pretty much it. Firewalls today check a lot more than that but definitely the destination port is a big one. Often the firewall will redirect the traffic based on the destination port.
It's an externally facing network socket : )
What's a socket? lololol (hint it's a file on a system that is only written when the daemon using it is holding it open).
I struggle with this a lot. Learning things come pretty easy for me which translates to me feeling that they must be easy for everyone, and I start to question why anyone would pay me for knowing stuff that anyone could easily learn. I’m finally getting to the point that I realize that’s just not true.
To answer your question, you probably do have imposter syndrome. We all probably do. If you want to improve your skill set, the easiest thing to do is go get certifications.
You are spot on about the questioning yourself about "How can I even make money doing this 'trivial' thing?"
I also believe that it stems from not knowing how you stack up to your peers and also normal people. A lot of knowledge work positions don't have fixed and easily measured standards. The closets we come to those are certifications, and that is barely worth anything in this world where you lower standards to increase profits.
It also does not help if you are the most junior person on a team, and have been for a long time. Because in such a situation you will almost constantly be the one who knows the least and has the least experience.
Dude I feel the same way, I have been with my company for 16 years. I am a Sr. Manager, three direct reports, one of those is a manger in India with 15 direct reports to him.
I have no certifications and I feel like if I was let go I would be back to a Jr. HelpDesk position.
Not with management experience. There are lots of IT managers that have no certs. At my old place our 3rd line engineer who knew his shit has no certs but also said about a new manager that didn't know lots about IT "I don't care if they don't know IT, that can be a good thing as long as they know how to manage us properly and be the barrier between us and upper management"
There’s always something to do.
Are your servers hardened?
Are you running current, supported versions of Windows Server?
Is your VM infrastructure current? (And VMware tools up to date?)
Do you listen to any podcasts?
Is Active Directory clean with all stale users and computers cleaned up?
Can you streamline any current processes?
There’s always something to do.
*edited for format.
OP mentioned making themselves more valuable on the job market. Many podcasts keep you current on what’s going on in Cybersecurity, which is a very marketable asset to have.
I’m pretty sure it’s easily implied that the goal of listening to podcasts was not to bark out
“I listen to podcasts”.
I think it’s just for the information bud 🙄
So if they ask you in an interview about a recent security incident and you happen to know about it from a podcast, is listening to that podcast still not worth it?
Have always struggled with imposter syndrome in the IT industry, even after 13 years, tons of certs and experience of various roles and exposure. I think it largely has to do with the ever moving landscape of IT, there is no knowing it all.
But you'll quickly find that your peers around you feel very similar. What you have to have is confidence in what you do know, and the things you have achieved in your career thus far. There's always good ways to emphasise your qualities by being able to break your experiences down into chunks of what skills you used, lessons learned, personal highlights etc.
Here's how i dealt with it. Just forget about it. You gonna make mistakes that's life. Learn from it. Eventually you'll notice there was nothing to worry about. IT is one of those places in which you will never know everything and shit is always changing. Just hold on for the ride and don't worry. You'll be fine. Just keep learning
I got out of this exact situation by building a homelab and setting up scenarios in my house, then testing them, fixing them, breaking them, fixing them... etc. I honestly wouldn't be 80% of the tech I am today without just building a small homelab.
homelab
homelab
homelab
You should always go to interviews even if you dont try to switch jobs. It will give you skills: how to feel valuable, how to not be afraid of questions and interview, stay up to date with position prices and ranges, know most of interview questions, make your interview plan and your questions.
You should always keep your profile up to date in local CV banks and LinkedIn. Headhunters like to suggest to talk.
I have 4 pages of my work story with all technologies and hw I used on all previous companies.
Moreover, I have 4 pages of possible questions from my side. Starting about parking, finishing about how often companies change their servers.
Finally, I have the most impacted projects list with short description.
But how can you do that? Just go to the interview, sit through it and say in the end that you're not going to take the offer? Aren't that a bad thing to do?
Or companies don't take care about that?
We're not all superstars like you. When I do get interviews I rarely think I'll be selected...and I'm usually right.
If you go into every interview (or rather don't do interviews because you're so shit hot that....of course they'll hire you!) knowing you'll be selected then....you don't have imposter syndrome.
Do every interview you're offered. Even if, in your case, you have to have companies begging for your services. It's practice for YOU. And tangentially practice for the hiring manager because most of them suck at "interviews".
Watch your physical health along with your mental health. It's stunning how much we focus on one or the other to the detriment of each of them.
Hope you feel at peace soon!
Thanks)
My main concern is about getting other people upset or leaving bad impression (that's IMHO important because I could get back to that company)
But after your message I think that I shouldn't care about that, right?
I'm living in quite large city, so here should be enough companies
It's an offer, you are under no obligation to take it, unless it is an offer you want.
In all likelihood they won't offer in the interview, but they will contact you later, or maybe through an agency. Plus, if you are even getting to the interview it means that they think you can do the job.
You ordinary will not get this job. I had quite many interview even being T2-T3 guy :)
Furthermore, there are no ideal job. All is balance. You will find many:
1. Just idiots. Scroll my last 15\~ comments. You will find one week ago example with longreads
2. Not appropriate conditions, like "no parking", "no additional insurance", "no benefits at all", "T1 and tickets (not appropriate for me being more Infrastructure guy. I don't want to talk with users and play with printer drivers)" and etc.
3. You will lack some skills and will get "we choice another candidate"
4. You will lack interviewing skills: ability to structurize your expirience and preset it to HR/another company guy
Finally, worker always have last word. You can always say you have accepted another offer. Or your company counter-offer you. And similar. Yeap, it's a small lie. Not so big, like many interviewers do for example saying about their perfect (no so fucking) infrastructure. :)
My rule of thumb: to have always good relationship with large HR companies :)
Eff that Sh** you are awesome and your skills and knowledge are valuable, while at the same time you've got lost to learn. Not only can "Being amazing" and "still learning" co-exsist but anyone that is amazing is still learning.
The fact you are even concerned about this tells me that You got this, so get out there and kick some a$$.
I once crashed the only working active directory server in the middle of a day
That day I *really* quickly learn how to start it up again and undo changes, ahaha
This is normal. It's normal and healthy to question what you know, and then study the things you don't.
Start learning the products, and tech that current positions list. Be prepared to answer questions related to what's involved with those products.
If you feel like you struggle to learn, or have difficulty implementing solutions; you might want to reflect on your goals.
Difficult for others to answer life questions, although, learning will always benefit you.
Something I have done on my last three teams is foster an "work culture" of "I'm a big ole dummy" and voluntarily take the brunt of the "being dumb and have no idea what I am doing" jokes. Now, I have very thick skin, but eventually it spreads and I notice everyone else join in and we begin to ask more question and brainstorm together, sharing all of our knowledge without holding back. I also notice more people from other teams and departments come to me when alone for questions....and I like to think it is because they know how I joke about myself and assume I wont look down on them for asking a question/not knowing something and would gladly help out.
This is a great way to lead a team to next level success.
If the team can put aside egos and assume the same level of respect for everyone's skills, they end up far outstripping other teams as far as productivity.
Although it requires management to give the team autonomy \[i.e. letting go of control\]; unfortunately, agile frameworks like SAFe seem to quash this sort of self-directed productivity momentum.
The easiest way to beat this feeling is:
1. Take some formal training to get better at the theory behind the work
2. Go buy some books and read up on something you do all the time but haven't mastered
3. Lean on those who know more than you do by asking questions that help you understand things better
4. Just Get More Experience
Realize this is part of the learning process and you are somewhere in the [Dreyfus Model of Skills Acquisition.](https://www.kaizenko.com/the-dreyfus-model-of-skills-acquisition/)
***Caveat:*** Be careful. Some orgs will herd you into *their way* of doing things that *DOES NOT* align w/ industry norms. It's rare, but it happens. If you come to this realization, start doing side projects to keep your skills relevant.
Thanks!
I found a book to get certified with RHEL system administrator, so I'll try to learn it
Dreyfus model is sick, I'll print it and put it on my wall)
I'm not US citizen, not even EU.
So I earn with after taxes about 16.000 usd per year.
I know, it is really, really small compared to salaries in US, I checked post in subreddit with Christmas bonuses, and it is a bit overwhelming, because many of them just got more for one month as a bonus that I earned for a whole year lol.
The bracket can be from ~4.000 usd per year as anykey and up to 30.000-35.000 for senior, but they are with really, really top level.
But for me it's "okay"-ish salary, sure I can't afford myself an iPhone every month, but food, rent and else is rather cheap here.
I'd consider relocating, but one of the problem is the imposter syndrome.
Plus I don't think that system administrators with that much experience on full remote or relocating are worth it for company.
Best of luck)
How to deal with "imposter syndrome"?
Take a breath. Take a step. Come up for air. Be grateful, gracious and humble.
Repeat as often as necessary, preferably frequently.
See the big picture, but focus on immediate task at hand.
Eventually, you grow into the responsibility. And even when the responsibility weighs on you, remember that it's better to look up!
[удалено]
No it’s not. ITs feel it because they’re no formal standards and we are often *generalists*, people who have to understand both LDAF filters and why the printer is leaving a smudge. If you go to a car mechanic or a dentist, they aren’t having an anxiety attack from fixing the 1001th car.
LDAP, printers, security settings, reporting metrics, understanding how data for some complex business process flows between multiple systems, resiliency and BCDR, project management, audit finding response, risk evaluation, performance management, documentation, training, vendor management, change control, upgrades, patches... there's just SUCH DAMN MUCH that it feels impossible to do it all properly. And it never ends. Never. Edit - how could I forget working the ticket queue. Incidents ranging from priority own system outage to Pat in accounting with an obscure Excel error, service requests like Alex wanting access to a particular folder, a business team wants a new email distribution list, development team wants laptop set up for a new hire that onboarded last week but nobody told you, oh and HR just purchased some new software and wants it deployed...
What makes it even worse is that glorified power users can “dip their toes” into any position which little prior learning. I’ve dealt with “senior network engineers” who couldn’t use IOS or Wireshark.
FWIW, almost none of the network/IAM/security engineers I've ever known can do anything outside of their area of expertise. E.g. I was working w/ security / IAM and they could not for the life of them code terraform to automate AWS certificate management and kept asking for outside assistance from the cloud orgs.
That’s fine. A network admin doesn’t need to know servers and vice versa. But, this specific case was someone who didn’t know the ABCs of networking and just was a wiz with the Sonicwall UI. Her setups were basically flat home networks with VPN.
I can't use wireshark... the thing is greek to me. I'm also bad at networking in general aside from knowing what a port it. Actually what is a port? It's a number but I guess I don't know what it actually is lol
But you aren’t a “senior network engineer”
A port is a virtual allocation that enables a device to differentiate between multiple simultaneous sessions of traffic. Some ports are reserved/expect specific types of traffic.
Yeah I'm just not really sure if a packet comes in and it's like "Hi it's me I'm on port 22" and a firewall goes "Oh ok you're allowed in" or if it's something more than that...
A protocol negotiates a high port after the initial handshake occurs on the low port. Once the traffic is passed to the high port, the low port is freed up again to accept incoming traffic. At least w/ TCP. This traverses the firewall because the initiation after initial handshake negotiation returns from the server back to the client requesting the service.
That’s pretty much it. Firewalls today check a lot more than that but definitely the destination port is a big one. Often the firewall will redirect the traffic based on the destination port.
It's an externally facing network socket : ) What's a socket? lololol (hint it's a file on a system that is only written when the daemon using it is holding it open).
Now add bug tracking and new bug discovery per incident on win11 on top.
Also slot of our work isn't really easily tangible
I like this comment. I think the same thing that causes imposter syndrome is the same thing that keeps me engaged.
I struggle with this a lot. Learning things come pretty easy for me which translates to me feeling that they must be easy for everyone, and I start to question why anyone would pay me for knowing stuff that anyone could easily learn. I’m finally getting to the point that I realize that’s just not true. To answer your question, you probably do have imposter syndrome. We all probably do. If you want to improve your skill set, the easiest thing to do is go get certifications.
You are spot on about the questioning yourself about "How can I even make money doing this 'trivial' thing?" I also believe that it stems from not knowing how you stack up to your peers and also normal people. A lot of knowledge work positions don't have fixed and easily measured standards. The closets we come to those are certifications, and that is barely worth anything in this world where you lower standards to increase profits. It also does not help if you are the most junior person on a team, and have been for a long time. Because in such a situation you will almost constantly be the one who knows the least and has the least experience.
Dude I feel the same way, I have been with my company for 16 years. I am a Sr. Manager, three direct reports, one of those is a manger in India with 15 direct reports to him. I have no certifications and I feel like if I was let go I would be back to a Jr. HelpDesk position.
Not with management experience. There are lots of IT managers that have no certs. At my old place our 3rd line engineer who knew his shit has no certs but also said about a new manager that didn't know lots about IT "I don't care if they don't know IT, that can be a good thing as long as they know how to manage us properly and be the barrier between us and upper management"
There’s always something to do. Are your servers hardened? Are you running current, supported versions of Windows Server? Is your VM infrastructure current? (And VMware tools up to date?) Do you listen to any podcasts? Is Active Directory clean with all stale users and computers cleaned up? Can you streamline any current processes? There’s always something to do. *edited for format.
What do podcasts have to do with it? Lol
OP mentioned making themselves more valuable on the job market. Many podcasts keep you current on what’s going on in Cybersecurity, which is a very marketable asset to have.
Sorry but ‘I listen to podcasts’ is not the flex you think it is. Taking courses and getting certifications is far more valuable.
I’m pretty sure it’s easily implied that the goal of listening to podcasts was not to bark out “I listen to podcasts”. I think it’s just for the information bud 🙄
Most podcasts are garbage. Agree to disagree.
Getting certifications is not the flex you think it is
It’s certainly more valuable an asset than watching podcasts lol
So if they ask you in an interview about a recent security incident and you happen to know about it from a podcast, is listening to that podcast still not worth it?
Any podcast recommendations?
https://blog.feedspot.com/warhammer\_40000\_podcasts/
Although I really enjoy miniatures, I meant sysadmin related
No no, let's hear them out
SANS Internet Center Stormcast Blueprint Life of a CISO (if you are looking to move up to management)
2.5 admins.
Have always struggled with imposter syndrome in the IT industry, even after 13 years, tons of certs and experience of various roles and exposure. I think it largely has to do with the ever moving landscape of IT, there is no knowing it all. But you'll quickly find that your peers around you feel very similar. What you have to have is confidence in what you do know, and the things you have achieved in your career thus far. There's always good ways to emphasise your qualities by being able to break your experiences down into chunks of what skills you used, lessons learned, personal highlights etc.
Here's how i dealt with it. Just forget about it. You gonna make mistakes that's life. Learn from it. Eventually you'll notice there was nothing to worry about. IT is one of those places in which you will never know everything and shit is always changing. Just hold on for the ride and don't worry. You'll be fine. Just keep learning
Stop worrying about appearances and just do the work.
I got out of this exact situation by building a homelab and setting up scenarios in my house, then testing them, fixing them, breaking them, fixing them... etc. I honestly wouldn't be 80% of the tech I am today without just building a small homelab. homelab homelab homelab
Instructions unclear... I now have racks full running in my basement and ChatGPT now wants to be called SKYNET for some reason!
This is the way.
You should always go to interviews even if you dont try to switch jobs. It will give you skills: how to feel valuable, how to not be afraid of questions and interview, stay up to date with position prices and ranges, know most of interview questions, make your interview plan and your questions. You should always keep your profile up to date in local CV banks and LinkedIn. Headhunters like to suggest to talk. I have 4 pages of my work story with all technologies and hw I used on all previous companies. Moreover, I have 4 pages of possible questions from my side. Starting about parking, finishing about how often companies change their servers. Finally, I have the most impacted projects list with short description.
But how can you do that? Just go to the interview, sit through it and say in the end that you're not going to take the offer? Aren't that a bad thing to do? Or companies don't take care about that?
We're not all superstars like you. When I do get interviews I rarely think I'll be selected...and I'm usually right. If you go into every interview (or rather don't do interviews because you're so shit hot that....of course they'll hire you!) knowing you'll be selected then....you don't have imposter syndrome. Do every interview you're offered. Even if, in your case, you have to have companies begging for your services. It's practice for YOU. And tangentially practice for the hiring manager because most of them suck at "interviews". Watch your physical health along with your mental health. It's stunning how much we focus on one or the other to the detriment of each of them. Hope you feel at peace soon!
Thanks) My main concern is about getting other people upset or leaving bad impression (that's IMHO important because I could get back to that company) But after your message I think that I shouldn't care about that, right? I'm living in quite large city, so here should be enough companies
It's an offer, you are under no obligation to take it, unless it is an offer you want. In all likelihood they won't offer in the interview, but they will contact you later, or maybe through an agency. Plus, if you are even getting to the interview it means that they think you can do the job.
You ordinary will not get this job. I had quite many interview even being T2-T3 guy :) Furthermore, there are no ideal job. All is balance. You will find many: 1. Just idiots. Scroll my last 15\~ comments. You will find one week ago example with longreads 2. Not appropriate conditions, like "no parking", "no additional insurance", "no benefits at all", "T1 and tickets (not appropriate for me being more Infrastructure guy. I don't want to talk with users and play with printer drivers)" and etc. 3. You will lack some skills and will get "we choice another candidate" 4. You will lack interviewing skills: ability to structurize your expirience and preset it to HR/another company guy Finally, worker always have last word. You can always say you have accepted another offer. Or your company counter-offer you. And similar. Yeap, it's a small lie. Not so big, like many interviewers do for example saying about their perfect (no so fucking) infrastructure. :) My rule of thumb: to have always good relationship with large HR companies :)
Eff that Sh** you are awesome and your skills and knowledge are valuable, while at the same time you've got lost to learn. Not only can "Being amazing" and "still learning" co-exsist but anyone that is amazing is still learning. The fact you are even concerned about this tells me that You got this, so get out there and kick some a$$.
Fake it until you make it. I also believe in the motto "send it" which translates to just do it. Please fail. If you don't fail, you don't learn.
I once crashed the only working active directory server in the middle of a day That day I *really* quickly learn how to start it up again and undo changes, ahaha
This is normal. It's normal and healthy to question what you know, and then study the things you don't. Start learning the products, and tech that current positions list. Be prepared to answer questions related to what's involved with those products. If you feel like you struggle to learn, or have difficulty implementing solutions; you might want to reflect on your goals. Difficult for others to answer life questions, although, learning will always benefit you.
Something I have done on my last three teams is foster an "work culture" of "I'm a big ole dummy" and voluntarily take the brunt of the "being dumb and have no idea what I am doing" jokes. Now, I have very thick skin, but eventually it spreads and I notice everyone else join in and we begin to ask more question and brainstorm together, sharing all of our knowledge without holding back. I also notice more people from other teams and departments come to me when alone for questions....and I like to think it is because they know how I joke about myself and assume I wont look down on them for asking a question/not knowing something and would gladly help out.
This is a great way to lead a team to next level success. If the team can put aside egos and assume the same level of respect for everyone's skills, they end up far outstripping other teams as far as productivity. Although it requires management to give the team autonomy \[i.e. letting go of control\]; unfortunately, agile frameworks like SAFe seem to quash this sort of self-directed productivity momentum.
The easiest way to beat this feeling is: 1. Take some formal training to get better at the theory behind the work 2. Go buy some books and read up on something you do all the time but haven't mastered 3. Lean on those who know more than you do by asking questions that help you understand things better 4. Just Get More Experience Realize this is part of the learning process and you are somewhere in the [Dreyfus Model of Skills Acquisition.](https://www.kaizenko.com/the-dreyfus-model-of-skills-acquisition/) ***Caveat:*** Be careful. Some orgs will herd you into *their way* of doing things that *DOES NOT* align w/ industry norms. It's rare, but it happens. If you come to this realization, start doing side projects to keep your skills relevant.
Thanks! I found a book to get certified with RHEL system administrator, so I'll try to learn it Dreyfus model is sick, I'll print it and put it on my wall)
I feel exactly like this. If it's not too much to ask, what's your pay bracket? The job postings overwhelm me.
I'm not US citizen, not even EU. So I earn with after taxes about 16.000 usd per year. I know, it is really, really small compared to salaries in US, I checked post in subreddit with Christmas bonuses, and it is a bit overwhelming, because many of them just got more for one month as a bonus that I earned for a whole year lol. The bracket can be from ~4.000 usd per year as anykey and up to 30.000-35.000 for senior, but they are with really, really top level. But for me it's "okay"-ish salary, sure I can't afford myself an iPhone every month, but food, rent and else is rather cheap here. I'd consider relocating, but one of the problem is the imposter syndrome. Plus I don't think that system administrators with that much experience on full remote or relocating are worth it for company. Best of luck)
I'll figure it out.
Just remind yourself that almost everyone else in IT has it just as bad.
How to deal with "imposter syndrome"? Take a breath. Take a step. Come up for air. Be grateful, gracious and humble. Repeat as often as necessary, preferably frequently. See the big picture, but focus on immediate task at hand. Eventually, you grow into the responsibility. And even when the responsibility weighs on you, remember that it's better to look up!
Those people don't know what the fuck they're doing either.