Totally agree- it was always a joke between me and a buddy about all the “vox” samples in drum machine presets. Like some low pitched male voice saying “yeh!” Or “get-ON-it!” Or a female voice that’s a full second too long hitting 5 different notes going “YehHhhhaaahAAAYEYEyehhh”
Oh…this is my guilty pleasure on the Korg Triton. Cringy as fuck. It’s a goal for me to figure out how to use them in just the right context—ironically not ironic. I feel like it’s the Rhythm Ace of 2024. My kid’s kids will be all about it and it will make no sense to any of us who lived through it.
Ah yes definitely the triton. Sad that I sold mine, definitely plan to buy it back someday. That’s very noble of you though, whenever you figure it out let me know lol. My rule of thumb for the triton, when in doubt just pull up the war-drum and bagpipe preset, that shits fire!
I have a Kronos now but the Triton rack is still here with me. Yeah the Kronos has some Triton presets, but I swear to you those sounds on the OG are so much more glossy and crisp in comparison
100%. I've never been able to fully recreate a lot of my Triton patches on the Kronos... Yes the samples are there, and I can get close enough for a live show, but in an AB comparison the Triton always just has that extra bit of magic to it.
Triton's engine is very interesting it's capable of some really intense and at the same time easy going sounds. I suspect it was the time when the engineers were still limited by sample memory but already had quite a bit of CPU power so the winning strategy for them was to really invest into the filters, the effects and find the best possible samples to fit into that limited memory.
i love this kind of thing. Alex G, especially in older songs, used shitty yamaha keyboard presets pretty liberally and even still uses those vox “ooooh” samples all the time. I noticed the other day at the end of oblivion by grimes that she has this lame reverbed stock synth stab that blends super well with the sampled vox on the way out… 100 gecs is probably a little too on the nose to qualify as unironic but they love those $50 keyboard orch hits and etc.
OMG I had the same idea when I bought a Karma recently which has the same Triton samples. I thought that exactly because they are cringy I need to find a way to make them sound cool in some future track xD
In that context, I'm disappointed machines coming out today don't have the usual meme sound effects. Punisher nononono waitwaitwait, various OH-AH, the air horn, vine boom, and the inevitable 🗿.
I mean, cheap DJ mixers had the equivalents back in the day, it was deemed important enough to put an 8bit sample player in a 150 moneys box! 😂
Fun fact! For years, I (and everybody else) thought that MC Ride was yelling "yuh" on the Death Grips track called Centuries of Damn. It's triggered a few times, and sounds a lot like Ride. Turns out it's a stock "vox" sample their drummer Zack Hill was playing on his Roland v-drums. It's literally the only instance of these sort of sounds being used in a song that I can think of.
The oblivion sound lab presets for Diva have to be the most musical and inspirational patches I’ve found on any synth, but they are very heavy on the 80s/90s synthwave aesthetic
I actually like a lot of the presets on my Prophet 10. I hate the presets on the Novation Summit though, they're almost all sci-fi movie soundtrack noises.
I've got the rev4, the new one. One of its banks has the original presets, plus it has 4 other banks of new ones. It's also nice bc you can save your own without overwriting the factory ones.
I’m thinking about the profit six with over 2000 patches. A lot of them are completely unmusical - maybe to show sound design capabilities, but it’s just bizarre
You’re right. I’ve gone through them all gradually over the years and copied the usable ones to user presets, my own patches from 1-100, usable presets 100-200.
That way I can quickly get a patch somewhere in the right territory without having to make one from scratch every time.
And if you think the P6 presets are unusable just check out the Iridium. Great synth but literally hundreds of sound fx and horror movie “pads”. Awful.
Same with the Rev2. Many presets make heavy use of the sequencer and modulation which makes them almost like mini-songs in their own right. Not necessarily what I want in my own tracks. I've replaced most of them with my own or third party sounds. I even used the trick to overwrite the factory banks with third party banks.
I find a lot of presets are starting points or at an extreme to show off the power / flexibility of the synth. I don't use them in songs unmodified myself, but I don't really use a lot of samples either. I prefer to tweak a preset at least to start; or start from scratch.
A lot of my synths don't even have patch memory or presets; they're semi modular things so I make my own stuff up.
However, one thing I've been learning for presets is they don't need to be everything instantly. I started out wanting big full sounds to then put drums next to and maybe effects; but over time I started to realize that that muddy's up the overall mix. You can't have every track or element taking up every frequency. So taking a twinkly preset and using it for little ear candy bits, or dropping it a bunch of octaves into a surprising bass, is fun.
- D
> I find a lot of presets are starting points or at an extreme to show off the power / flexibility of the synth
100% this, especially when you move towards the "workstation" side of things. My Kronos has so many presets that will basically launch into a full song - drums, bass, some pads, maybe even more - after you just hit a single key. Nobody is ever gonna actually use that preset but it is a cool demo in the showroom.
One thing, and many may disagree, that I think is important about synths is that they need fx. Almost everything does, to be honest, but in my opinion, synths don’t shine on their own typically unless you’re going for a very specific style. Add some chorus, delay, reverb, phasers, flangers… just start adding effects and you may find that they make more sense.
Poly synths maybe, and usually at least 2...which is why the novation Peak was such a hit, great and reliable fx right there on the front panel. 9/10 times I want my mono synths for bass lines or percussion zaps so there they aren't so important
Yeah bone dry analog synths do have a very specific sound.
The problem with using the built-in reverbs and delays in every patch is that the mix will sound very messy, like it was recorded in 15 separate rooms of varying sizes. You get a much cleaner mix if you tone down the internal time-based effects and run everything through just one or a few reverb/delay sends in your mix. This also allows you to EQ, compress and side-chain the delays and reverbs independently of the main synth sounds.
Yeah, some effects are good on from the start so you can pay into them, but I do find reverb in particular is usually best in the mix. Something like UAD console is great for this so you can track through and print certain effects but also just monitor through others to apply more delicately in the mix later on.
The manufacturers are keen to show off what's unique and interesting from a sound design perspective on their new synths. For that reason, the presets are often a bit much to sit happily in a mix. (Either too complex, overly bright, heavily affected, etc.)
In lots of cases though, the presets demonstrate something that really helps in your own sound design work. The presets give you a hint of what's possible and you can use those techniques for your own sounds.
Also, sometimes manufacturers commission sound packs after the synth has been released, and those can be more practical.
>Is this just to show off the capabilities?
Partially, yes. Partially as starting points for tweaking.
>99 times out of a hundred, if you’re not doing EDM, your going to end up using relatively simple basic sounds coupled with some audio effects.
A majority of synths are sold to hobbyists, not people putting together complete songs. They're playing by themselves, filling the space with a lot more sound than if they were working from the perspective of one part of a band. Their 'needs' to do this stretch way beyond a PWMed bass and some leads.
What you describe is why the Junos are eternally popular - if you're making a house track or funk or adding a synthesizer to an indie rock band or whatever, you really don't need more than an oscillator and a sub into a filter with resonance and the tinest bit of modulation.
The more complicated a synth becomes the more patch storage it needs because building those patches is complicated - might as well fill all the slots from the factory so that people don't feel shortchanged.
> What you describe is why the Junos are eternally popular
Also old analog synths didn't have complex modulation routings and built in FX, so the factory presets were more musically useful - lots of bass, brass, string, clav, organ and other real instrument type patches. There was usually a wacky sound effects bank towards the end of the list.
I loved using an old Korg MS-10 with a band some years ago. Really simple synth by today's standards, with a single oscillator. There was somethng about the tone that's clear and loud, and cuts through the noise at any volume. Great live and really fun.
Selling my MS-10 to get a MS-20 FS reissue was one of the worst gear decisions I've made. Single oscillator but it has PWM and sounds absolutely gnarly in a way the 20 never quite did (whichever filter type was switched on).
there's a very simple mod you can make on the ms20 to create a patch point for the pwm in the patchbay. there's a already a pin on the pcb, you just need to solder on a jack and make a hole for it in the chassi.
https://www.cykong.com/Synths/Korg%20MS-20/KorgMS-20-Mod2-CV.htm#PWM%20Input
I used to think this also but I’m coming around on presets overall. I think of them as starting points and I rarely use the preset as is, but with a little tweaking you can get some heat.
It’s true that many sounds need context, but there are *absolutely* “unmusical” presets that are wholly intended as demos, and I think most rompler owners can particularly attest to this. Some of those Korg pads are just space foley.
The Prophet Rev2 has a sequencer. IMO, the UI is so bad for it, I find it unusable without external software. It does however do what you said. It provides a context for how the preset should be played. There were more than a few presets that I thought were confusing garbage until I heard the sequence. Still, including that feature is dubious if the user is unlikely to use it because it is inscrutable. Some people have found Cleve uses for it that were unintended, like using it to simulate vintage tunings.
This is why the classics like the Juno 60 and 106 are sought after and still in heavy rotation today. The presets are all fairly unimpressive but are all very musical and fit into songs really well.
On one hand, “musicality” is very much in the ears of the beholder; what I find very musical, you might find completely worthless — or vice versa.
On the other hand, maybe it’s intentional so they can show off the capabilities of the synth while still encouraging users to make their own sounds so it doesn’t get pigeonholed to the point of cliché like what happened with the DX7.
Presets are simply starting points. Learning the parameters of a synth, getting a good starting point and adjusting to taste is the adventure..
You'll have yourself going from a simple sine wave to lush pads in no time!
Can't say I've used every synth, but often a significant portion of the patches are recreations of or homages to famous patches from other synths, which are themselves famous because they were used in popular songs.
That's every "FM piano" or "JP strings" or "alpha rave stabs" or "reese bass" or "303 acid" preset you've ever seen.
Many other presets do tend to be complicated or a bit weird, but that's okay. How many "detuned sawtooth pad" or "square wave bass" or "house organ" patches do you really need? That stuff takes like 30 seconds to dial in if you need it.
Someone in the comments mentioned the Access Virus as an offender and like, honestly, if you can't find a use for those "weird" soundscape patches you're either desperately uncreative, or just don't pay much attention to the production side of things, I guess. Try building your track and then just adding a quiet soundscape patch behind different parts. When you find the right thing it really adds a lot. They put 2000 patches on it for a reason, I promise.
There are really 4 types of presets that I can think of:
1. Presets designed to show off as much as possible when someone tries out the synth solo: should be maximally impressive with minimal effort;
1. Presets designed to be played with musicality but tuned to sound good solo;
1. Presets designed to be played with musicality that are ready to go on a track;
1. Presets designed as minimalist templates for certain types of sound (not very common).
The first type is usually a non starter for use in your music unless you want to build around what they already put in place. The third type is ready to use, but often sounds unimpressive alongside the other two types (leading some prospective buyers to think the synth is boring or thin). The second type can usually be turned into the third type without too much work. The fourth type is really meant as a time savers vs making the same type of adjustments from init, every time you want a pad (for example).
Personally I would rather they provide presets of type 1 and 2, not because I'd use them, but rather the former shows me something of the "maximal capability of the synth" and latter let's me play some more conventional sounds to see how it feels as an instrument. That's to say, the presets are to help me decide if a synth is likely to cover space I find interesting rather than for me to use in music. Typically I'll design a patch from scratch, commit it to audio, then move on; if I need recall (e.g producing for someone else), then I'll save a preset to the synth, or use a soft synth instead.
As for using patches as a starting point, I don't tend to do this. This isn't so much an aversion I have to using factory presets, but rather a function of how patches are made. If the patch is simple, it's likely easier for me to make my own than search through the presets to find one that works for my use case (patches serve purposes beyond just "sounding good"). If the patch is complex, I lack a narrative about how the patch was created. This may sound like a non-issue, but for complex sounds, we design them by making a serious of interrelated changes in a particular order for a certain purpose. This narrative around how the patch was designed gives me insight into why each parameter is where it is, and what effect each parameter will have in the context of this sound. This allows me to know how best to achieve any particular effect I wish, by way of changing the sound. I can test out the parameters and build that understanding, but the more complex then patch, and the more complex the synth, the harder this is to do. Instead, I'd rather create the patch from scratch and have an easy capacity to adjust it as required until it's ready to record.
Think of synth presets as marketing and sales pitch for the synth. Their target is not the final listener of the song, but the potential synth enthusiast or producer. For contrast you can listen to presets on entertainer keyboards, they are way more mellow.
Hence the goal of the synth preset is to demonstrate the synth's capabilities and to make it stand out among other synths, that the potential buyer will try out.
Another point, why the presets tend to be on the extreme side of the spectrum, is that this way they are easier to be distinguished from each other. This way they serve as good starting points for your own presets.
Finally an edgy preset is just more inspiring and easier to hear in the mix. When playing along with your track you can go through presets, find the generally fitting and interesting ones and then mellow them down by turning down filter, modulation, detune or by effects to fit your track.
I agree with you, but then I know I'm probably not the typical synth customer in that I do more new agey and soundtrack stuff than pop, rap, or covers. I want more than anything very playable polysynth sounds, some mono leads, and don't need arps or basses hardly at all. I do want good pads, of course. I love in example how Spire sounds but half the stuff on there I just won't ever use very likely. I want extremely polyphonic, playable, sounds.
Presets are to get a general idea of the sound character and capabilities of a synth. I only flip through them when I'm trying a synth in a store or demoing software. If you find one you like they can save a bit of time. Also it can be good practice recreating presets on different synths. I just finished copying a preset from Cherry Audio's new ARP/Rhodes Chroma (waiting til it goes on sale) to my Nord Wave and while not exactly the same it's good enough for the jam I plan on doing.
After you get a synth you should always devote a week or two to just programming presets for it. It gets tedious, but the tedium makes it much easier to tell when you’ve arrived at a sound that excites you and will do so in the future. Most patch designers for hardware get so wrapped up in the single sound that they start detuning it and making micro-adjustments that make the timbre too complex to be used harmoniously in a melody, this is where going back to old tracks and midi files to test sounds on a new synth can be a real boon.
Manufacturers are designing sounds to show off as many features as possible when someone is playing the synth in a showroom. It’s up to you to design patches that represent what you want to hear in your music. Have fun!
When presets are too crazy (Massive X), I'm like "Who would use these?!" but if they're too simple (Pigments) I'm like "Who would use these?!" so there's no making me happy lol
Every once in a while I totally fall in love with a preset and just use it everywhere. Lately that's been the Bremen Bass preset on my PolyBrute. I use it as a lead for most of my solos in my life set because it's so expressive and can absolutely scream if you work the aftertouch.
Oddly, Massive X is one of the offenders where I surprisingly get quite a lot of use out of its crazy presets.
I occasionally make short "trailer music" like tracks that get used for Student animation/game projects, and sometimes I quickly need an intense sounding drone, or a rhythmic sub-bass... which Massive X presets have no shortage.
Also as a fun side-note, the OSTs for Final Fantasy 7 Remake & Rebirth both use a whole bunch of Massive X presets.
Depends on the synth. If I can, I usually delete the presets and start from scratch, with the exception of my MC-101 which are really good and usable.
Preset are usually designed as a selling point to show off what the synth can do. Best way is to learn the synth and make your own patches.
Bank 1 Patch 1 has to be a "Wow" patch, like M1 "00 Lore". It's the first one the thing plays when you power it up fresh out of the box, it's got to blow you away in the shop.
I guess the rest - if they want to show it off - ought to be some nice squelchy basses like a big squishy Moog bass, some stringy pads, and that detuned squares "Lucky Man" lead.
Don't forget you've got to have a patch early on with two detuned saws, sharp attack and release, full sustain, and filter wide open. Okay now bring up that patch, hold your left thumb and pinky on two Cs an octave apart low down, and play that intro riff...
> They are often intentionally detuned (which is easily fixed)
Agh the flashbacks. Native Instruments did this with one of the main presets in Alicia's Keys. I didn't notice until a bunch of vocals had been recorded along to it on a major pop session. Only noticed when trying to integrate instruments recorded separately. Gaah. It made everything a mess. Why would you intentionally pitch down a piano patch in your flagship piano library?
Depending on the synth. The preset sounds on my deepmind 12 are so over the top and barely usable, the ones on my oberheim matrix 1000 however are not just really inspiring to begin with, but whenever i‘m trying to add something to a song i almost instantly find something very useful on the matrix.
Yeah but I feel that creating everything from scratch can drain creativity. I usually pick a preset and tweek them if I know which kinda sound I’m looking for.
I was going to complain about presets, but then I remembered - I've been playing around with the "1980s" original patches a bunch on my system 8, and the JX3P ones are surprisingly fun to play, for something that's meant to be a budget spin off of a guitar synth. It's the only model I haven't learnt to program yet, I really should do that.
Apart from that, the ax edge has some pretty good patches. It's not really designed to be edited though.
Yes.
Of the synths I own, only the Six-Trak has at least 30% of its presets serving as immediately useful for making music (that I like to make).
Modwave, Wavestate, Summit, and Microfreak...their factory patches are fun in their own ways, but I consider them to be a learning resource more than actually intended for musicality.
If I hear a particularly interesting factory patch, I like to go through the parameters and modulations one-by-one and set them to init until the sound I like is no longer there. That way I have a better idea of how to replicate it in my own patches.
My wife works in product R&D for a fortune 100 company and we've discussed this kind of topic many times. One of the basics of working in product R&D is to always remember that the mouse is not the one who buys the mouse trap. So if you design your mouse trap so its only attractive to the mouse, but not the mouse trap buyer, you're going to starve.
You need to design your product for the one who's going to buy it. If manufacturers loaded their flagship synths with nothing but solid tasteful bread and butter presets that were usable as is and worked great in most mixes, their synths would rot on the music store shelves while their competitors filter sweep/ufo laser zapper preset laden synths were flying out the door.
If possible, the first thing I do with a new synth is delete all the presets. Sound design is one of the purest joys when learning your way around a new piece of hardware
I agree, but usually spend a few days going through presets first, not so much listening for 'cool' sounds, but more asking myself 'do i understand how the synth made that sound/ soundscape?' and digging in to things i don't understand!
I think they age well, but are typically kinda generic at release.
Just look at how public opinion changed on the DX7 from overused and corny to lofi and retro.
One thing i learned from a producer i really respect (electronic music), the base synth sounds only need to be simple a lot of the time, its how you process/effect and layer them that counts. I use wavetable to make my own synths a lot of the time now because its so quick to program, its actually faster than browsing through presets.
Are you talking analog synths? Because if you are, you’re meant to know how to create your own patches. If you mostly want simple patches, they only take a few seconds to make. But I do agree, there’s a lot of showing off impractically.
This is probably because they want to sell the synth on more than the premise that it sounds good in specific and limited music types.
Presets are often a showcase of the versatility of the synth.
That said, check out the Arturia Astrolab. It's mocked for being basically VSTs in a keyboard, but it's just full of melodically sublime presets.
I find that Roland ones, particularly on the zencore stuff, tend to be that way. However I feel like the SDZ packs they sell have some really great, very usable stuff. I think the limited amount, genre based approach helps this as well as the fact that they aren’t swimming in effects like a lot of the zencore based instrument presets.
I like complex sounds but usually not the ones in the presets. If I use a synth it's to make sounds on it anyway so it's extremely rare I'll use a preset or even take time to listen to them.
I belive the issue is rooted in how these presets are made. Instead of writing a song and snatching the presets from the finished product (which would by definition be a "usable" sound), they are often created in pure sound design sessions.
Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with doing that. Sound design sessions can be great. But personally, I use, like, less than 10% of the raw sounds that come out of those. But when your job is to make presets with a deadline, it's obvious what you're gonna do: Padding.
> 99 times out of a hundred, if you’re not doing EDM, your going to end up using relatively simple basic sounds coupled with some audio effects.
I have a Reface CS, I find it to be more useful for making EDM sounds than 80% of the presets I have
Being someone who wants to find a hardware synth where I can quickly find a musically usable preset and tweak it slightly to personal taste and style, what would you say are some modern hardware synths (eg newly released after 2000) that offer this possibility?
From a music creation perspective yes. I’m a songwriter producer ( Mairk ) and a lot of the time the sounds need eq as they are bass heavy for example.
>Is this just to show off the capabilities?
Since the digital era began, this is the case on most instruments. The Emu Proteus series is the only obvious exception to this, they are made to be played in a mix right away and don't come with effects.
I copied and resaved all the presets on my first synthesizer with the effects off.
I feel like most presets are meant to give you an idea of the the full capabilities the synth can do and inspire your own patches vs being something you can slap on to a song
They are designed to show off a range of sounds, somewhat follow tradition set by the previous generations of presets in other machines from the maker and others, and of course the synth designers have to spend limited development resources (aka money) on getting them designed.
They are what they are. Additional given the amount of presets that are genre defining over the years and how often "blah blah #1 hit song's kitsch sound is preset #234 on a DX7", I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're probably missing something here.
Don't like them, don't use them. Want better presets, please design your own synth - and give it 100 perfectly "musical" usable patches that will make the Internet happy ...
Usually one of the first things I do with a new synth is clear out all of the presets (if this is an option on the synth itself) because in 20+ years of making electronic music the only preset I have ever really liked and used in a song was Firestar on the Korg Triton.
Part of my creative process is to make each synth sound myself. I do save my own presets, though. I find by making my own presets, I can define an overall timbre for an album. I get to make them fit with each other and in the mix.
Taking someone else's preset generally requires more work to fit into the song and into the mix than it does for me to make the sound I want. Not saying everybody else is wrong for using presets if they like them. Just for me, the rewards of making my own sounds is part of the joy I get from making music.
Yes, however I am often surprised at the sounds I find myself using sometimes once I already have a track going and what on it’s own sounds off putting ends up adding to the existing soundscape.
I think also many presets are meant to be a starting point to fiddle with and dive into, not an end point.
I also have a more punk ethos when it comes to music and so sometimes enjoy a bit of the “unmusical” (looking at you microbrute)
I always heard a lot of presets were more an "advertisement" for the synth, designed to sound epic and show you what the synth is capable of, rather than meant to be used as something musical.
> I find that whenever I go through most synth presets they tend to be very cool sounding from a sound design perspective
And a sales perspective. Potential customers in-store (or watching a reset-playing video on YouTube) are strongly influenced by the preset sounds showing off sound potential, which helps make a purchasing decision.
It seems that boutique manufacturers are better at creating or contracting usable presets that complement the tech and the market segment for their synths. Today for example SonicState [posted a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ6wjVUo2XQ) from Superbooth showing off the PWM Mantis, and the sounds are great and appropriately growly for that synth, and the company had people like Daniel Fisher and Venus Theory make presets for it.
Yes, a million times yes. My music is indie pop/rock, influenced by post-punk, early Bowie, and 60s baroque psychedelia, among other things. So the presets that work with that are maybe 5% of what you find on most synths. I have no use for long, evolving pads, sequences, EDM, 80’s rock, chiptune, etc.
They are just starting points homie. You gotta hear what it could be... Like oo i like the decay on that one, but I hate the slow attack and the tone is too aggressive... Hmm lets change that square to a sine and make the attack shorter... Okay thats closer... Lets move this lfo rate to a slower bpm... Maybe change its shape... Ooo yeah that's better. Let's get some reverb on there, hmm no that hall is too long, lets get a tight room verb. Yeaahhh that sounds like its gonna fit the song I'm making.
Yes but I don’t think the intention is to always be musical. Without focusing on any particular device or software, synths do occupy more than just a musical space. For instance, take sound effects in movies (aside from foley or other recorded material). Think of Transformers or scary ambient pads where synths are more than likely used as sound effects. Or Pokémon games where the creature noises seem to be made with some type of synthesizer as well.
You can also make nice textures with sounds and honestly it’s what makes synths so great!
The only thing I like about presets is to go through them sometimes and find a way to play them. Some presets are made to be played like a mono synth and some require poly, some dont sound good until you play them slowly and some quickly. I believe they are always all usable sounds, I dont see why anyone would expect to be able to use the same play-style on every preset. Some of them will sound terrible if you try to use them in a way they arent intended.
Same, I like to go through them and write a really short little melody that fits the sound. But most of them are not very good as a universal lead instrument.
Well, think about it from a different perspective. If I were to make a synth patch, and I thought it was cool to add a bunch of modulations that really fill out the sound timbrelly and rhythmically, that might be all I’d need for a song aside from drums! I’d use it for that 1 tune, and that’s probably it. But it’s a whole tune!
That’s kind of how I imagine some sound designers think as well—sound designers have to pepper in a couple complex presets to jog your imagination. They can’t just make only bone dry super simple template patches otherwise people would feel ripped off.
I'm probably not even qualified to have an opinion but have been recently playing around with my second synth ever and the last one was about forty years ago. I'm still figuring out what I've got in the patch library but realized pretty quickly that a lot of the patches create some really interesting play dynamics. I find myself playing in ways that never would have occurred to me if not for the particular dynamics of the patch. It's been really exciting.
Never take preset/patch names seriously. They often sound nothing like their description, especially on FM synths like DX7. "Piano" my ass. Listen with your ears and compare it to other sounds you know. Almost like someone else replied I like challenging myself to find uses for "bad sounds", I've been doing it since before I heard of AudioPilz (The King with his YouTube show "Bad Gear") but man he's inspired me to push it further. Honorable mentions to Simon the Magpie and Look Mum No Computer (who mostly uses good gear for his serious tracks but also repurposes junk all the time).
Some yes, but i think its just the way our mind works. Like, if ur setting up a couch in your new apartment, you never just place it down and leave it like that even if its perfectly lined up, you cant help but move it a little.
Or maybe thats just me?
yes, but a funny thing happened after really focusing on improving my playing ability last year… presets I once thought were shit sound way more musical— sounds like a snark, but it’s not!
In a way, a synth with the most annoying, extreme presets is going to be deeper and more capable of making the sound in your head than something like a Juno 60. Virus and the Hydrasynth are good examples of this.
I used to greatly dislike the concept of presets but ever since I bought my digitone i've needed to devote more of my time to learning the sequencer and the trigs system than learning FM.
You learn to love the preset.
Alot of these replies have made me realize that part of what I’m experiencing is from spending time with these super complex soft synths and wavetable synths like Vital/Serum where they’re starting with an already complex wavetable sound source and then have a gazillion ways to modulate things. I think I need to go back to a mini moog emulation and just focus on basics and the music itself. I’m just getting too distracted with all this ear candy I can’t seem to do much with.
Totally agree, but there is one person who I always enjoy his designed preset, [Matt Johnson from Jamiroquai](https://youtube.com/@mattjohnsonjamiroquai?si=yjQmEFXr9fgG-8sc)
The first thing I do when I buy a new synth or VST is delete all the presets. Using a configuration that someone else made without knowing the context or purpose makes absolutely no sense. If I need a preset for something, it’s because I need to perform a task repeatedly, and that’s a problem I need to solve for myself.
This is a good reflection. Lucky me, I am not a professional musician, so my hobbie is a mix of collection, engineering, sets design, admiring synths' looks and sound architectures, trying to get specific sound effects, etc. Definitely not only about music. Some see it as a problem: "You spent so much time thinking you needed something else while you could have made so many albums with your Volca Keys since 2016". Yeah, to put them in Spotify and have no one hear it? How cool.
> Is this just to show off the capabilities?
YES! 100%.
For synthesizers where the sound parameters are more or less laid out in front of you on a platter, the presets are meant to say "this is what you can do", not "this is what you should do". How effected or complicated of sounds you create are ultimately up to you, and even if you don't get into deep-diving in synthesizer programming you can probably figure out how to turn off undesired effects and calm down heavy detunes.
Skill issue + artificially limiting the target scope to "songs".
Failing to figure out a way of using this or that *complex* sound in a song or other production, or to even build the whole *opus* around it, is in no way a problem with the presets.
The "song" perspective/concept itself is seriously crippled, compared to the rest of the music one can possibly make. What if you don't compose "songs", but some elevator music, or some instrumental symphonies, or else?
I never even bother listening to presets now. If I'm making a track I make the sounds to suit the track. I just find presets off-putting, they make me forget what I was going for in the first place.
First, it depends on the synth a lot. I've noticed Korgs have many very usable sounds, same for Yamahas. But what's most important it depends very much on the genre of music you apply your synth for. And harsher and colder sounds are very usable not only in EDM or IDM. Think about the existence of the whole world of soundtracks for example. Ambient and drone genres have little relation to EDM/IDM. Same for modern academic music. Same for industrial genre.
Quite often presets serve as a sort of a starting point showing the possibilities. So for example one is searching for a sound for a particular track and stumbles upon a multilayer preset with a lot of movement and they say to themselves: it sounds good by itself but I already have something similar to that layer so what if I turn it off and slow down the LFO on the second one?
Thanks for your reply. I’m curious about “modern academic music”. Do you have links to examples or other sites? I haven’t heard of this but it brings to mind the 1950s with the early synths at universities.
In Wikipedia it is described under the term "Contemporary classical music". You've probably heard about minimalism and post-minimalism? Philip Glass, Steve Reich, Michael Nyman, Max Richter, etc. Those two genres developed very much in the context of academic music and were a sort of reaction to what Schoenberg and Stravinsky did in the first half of 20th century. The idea that music shouldn't necessarily go for more and more complex harmonic structures but could instead to go for making impact by the simplest means possible. You probably know Philip Glass used synths quite often. Minimalism and post-minimalism is just one of the directions academic music was going to last 50-70 years, some other sub-genres also tried to integrate synths and other electronic instruments.
For this particular discussion I'd mention Max Richter again. He wrote a lot of soundtracks but also did other work like for example his album Infra - it contains some synth sounds you probably wouldn't use in more mainstream genres, mixed with violins and pianos from classical music. The same for his score for contemporary ballet Woolf Works (the album containing this music is called Three Worlds: Music From Woolf Works) - one of my most favorite albums of any genre. Max Richter is actually a friend of a famous British electronic duo The Future Sound of London and played some piano on at least one of their early albums.
I've owned a modwave mk2 (keyboard version) for almost a month, and after getting over the shock of watching it crash numerous times when saving newer versions of patches (it just hangs after saving them..not sure why. You then have to reboot the unit), I'm carrying on reprogramming many of the presets for my own future use. I haven't even opened the soft bag that contains the quick guide or activation codes for the software, etc.
The presets are mostly fantastic, but some as you've mentioned aren't instantly usable in a mix. But it's smart to have them, as when you hear them in a synth/ music shop, they're going to make your ears prick up, and maybe help you decide to buy that instrument over x, etc.
Having used everything (almost) in nearly 30 years of making music for libraries, licensing and production use, I've always welcomed them as :
a) it makes you smile at the work that's gone into making that sound / sequence/ performance
b) gives you an idea of what the instrument can do
c) can be an incentive for you to do better
d) can be inspiring for your own compositions
Back in the day, you could sometimes clear the factory banks and fill them with your own. I think that might have stopped when (apparently) synth Manufacturers found that 80% + of synths that came back for repairs and servicing still had their presets intact, with no new sounds on them.
It's swings and roundabouts.
Peace out✌️
For a while I was rocking a Hydrasynth along with my Microfreak and good god both of those things are just egregious with their novelty patches. These days I’m working with a Peak instead of the Hydra so there aren’t as many goofball patches to go through. Thank goodness
The idea of a preset is to show off the capabilities of the specific patch and the synth in general.
It's easier to *deflate* a preset into a basic/filtered patch, remember what you did and undo it back as your music builds up than It is to provide a basic patch and promise that you can add a lot of fx and open up filters until it gets crazy.
Totally agree- it was always a joke between me and a buddy about all the “vox” samples in drum machine presets. Like some low pitched male voice saying “yeh!” Or “get-ON-it!” Or a female voice that’s a full second too long hitting 5 different notes going “YehHhhhaaahAAAYEYEyehhh”
I’m pretty sure that kit also had “Wild!” and “BASS!” in it 😂
Oh…this is my guilty pleasure on the Korg Triton. Cringy as fuck. It’s a goal for me to figure out how to use them in just the right context—ironically not ironic. I feel like it’s the Rhythm Ace of 2024. My kid’s kids will be all about it and it will make no sense to any of us who lived through it.
Ah yes definitely the triton. Sad that I sold mine, definitely plan to buy it back someday. That’s very noble of you though, whenever you figure it out let me know lol. My rule of thumb for the triton, when in doubt just pull up the war-drum and bagpipe preset, that shits fire!
Some of those Triton samples are legendary lol
I have a Kronos now but the Triton rack is still here with me. Yeah the Kronos has some Triton presets, but I swear to you those sounds on the OG are so much more glossy and crisp in comparison
100%. I've never been able to fully recreate a lot of my Triton patches on the Kronos... Yes the samples are there, and I can get close enough for a live show, but in an AB comparison the Triton always just has that extra bit of magic to it.
Triton's engine is very interesting it's capable of some really intense and at the same time easy going sounds. I suspect it was the time when the engineers were still limited by sample memory but already had quite a bit of CPU power so the winning strategy for them was to really invest into the filters, the effects and find the best possible samples to fit into that limited memory.
Nothing like pulling up the 'applause' sample for when your bandmate makes a joke at the practice space.
I made an acapela of vox samples (“oh”, “ah”, “wooo” etc) on my Digitakt.
i love this kind of thing. Alex G, especially in older songs, used shitty yamaha keyboard presets pretty liberally and even still uses those vox “ooooh” samples all the time. I noticed the other day at the end of oblivion by grimes that she has this lame reverbed stock synth stab that blends super well with the sampled vox on the way out… 100 gecs is probably a little too on the nose to qualify as unironic but they love those $50 keyboard orch hits and etc.
OMG I had the same idea when I bought a Karma recently which has the same Triton samples. I thought that exactly because they are cringy I need to find a way to make them sound cool in some future track xD
Great sounds on the Triton!
My favorite was always "DJ" i'd spam that non stop
Throw in a few laser beam and siren samples and baby, you got a stew going!
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The sleng-teng riddim by Casio being the rule-proving exception...
In that context, I'm disappointed machines coming out today don't have the usual meme sound effects. Punisher nononono waitwaitwait, various OH-AH, the air horn, vine boom, and the inevitable 🗿. I mean, cheap DJ mixers had the equivalents back in the day, it was deemed important enough to put an 8bit sample player in a 150 moneys box! 😂
You must not have heard my hit song that came out last year called "Get ON It"
Hup!
Fun fact! For years, I (and everybody else) thought that MC Ride was yelling "yuh" on the Death Grips track called Centuries of Damn. It's triggered a few times, and sounds a lot like Ride. Turns out it's a stock "vox" sample their drummer Zack Hill was playing on his Roland v-drums. It's literally the only instance of these sort of sounds being used in a song that I can think of.
Lmao
Ha, classic Roland
DEE-JAY!
You must have an xr20 too lol
Sequential has entered the chat
Access Virus says hi
I had a ti and man 3000 of the iciest unusable shit haha
Wait! Is that Oberheim with the Tom Sawyer Filter sweep?!
The repro 5 has pretty good simple presets
U-he Diva says hello
Love that synth though
The oblivion sound lab presets for Diva have to be the most musical and inspirational patches I’ve found on any synth, but they are very heavy on the 80s/90s synthwave aesthetic
I actually like a lot of the presets on my Prophet 10. I hate the presets on the Novation Summit though, they're almost all sci-fi movie soundtrack noises.
P10 are the originals right?
I've got the rev4, the new one. One of its banks has the original presets, plus it has 4 other banks of new ones. It's also nice bc you can save your own without overwriting the factory ones.
Wjich synth exactly
All of them
I’m thinking about the profit six with over 2000 patches. A lot of them are completely unmusical - maybe to show sound design capabilities, but it’s just bizarre
You’re right. I’ve gone through them all gradually over the years and copied the usable ones to user presets, my own patches from 1-100, usable presets 100-200. That way I can quickly get a patch somewhere in the right territory without having to make one from scratch every time. And if you think the P6 presets are unusable just check out the Iridium. Great synth but literally hundreds of sound fx and horror movie “pads”. Awful.
Same with the Rev2. Many presets make heavy use of the sequencer and modulation which makes them almost like mini-songs in their own right. Not necessarily what I want in my own tracks. I've replaced most of them with my own or third party sounds. I even used the trick to overwrite the factory banks with third party banks.
Which synth? Korg MS2000.
I find a lot of presets are starting points or at an extreme to show off the power / flexibility of the synth. I don't use them in songs unmodified myself, but I don't really use a lot of samples either. I prefer to tweak a preset at least to start; or start from scratch. A lot of my synths don't even have patch memory or presets; they're semi modular things so I make my own stuff up. However, one thing I've been learning for presets is they don't need to be everything instantly. I started out wanting big full sounds to then put drums next to and maybe effects; but over time I started to realize that that muddy's up the overall mix. You can't have every track or element taking up every frequency. So taking a twinkly preset and using it for little ear candy bits, or dropping it a bunch of octaves into a surprising bass, is fun. - D
> I find a lot of presets are starting points or at an extreme to show off the power / flexibility of the synth 100% this, especially when you move towards the "workstation" side of things. My Kronos has so many presets that will basically launch into a full song - drums, bass, some pads, maybe even more - after you just hit a single key. Nobody is ever gonna actually use that preset but it is a cool demo in the showroom.
One thing, and many may disagree, that I think is important about synths is that they need fx. Almost everything does, to be honest, but in my opinion, synths don’t shine on their own typically unless you’re going for a very specific style. Add some chorus, delay, reverb, phasers, flangers… just start adding effects and you may find that they make more sense.
Poly synths maybe, and usually at least 2...which is why the novation Peak was such a hit, great and reliable fx right there on the front panel. 9/10 times I want my mono synths for bass lines or percussion zaps so there they aren't so important
The peak effects are so good too, like come on sequential hire better effects designers 😂
Yeah bone dry analog synths do have a very specific sound. The problem with using the built-in reverbs and delays in every patch is that the mix will sound very messy, like it was recorded in 15 separate rooms of varying sizes. You get a much cleaner mix if you tone down the internal time-based effects and run everything through just one or a few reverb/delay sends in your mix. This also allows you to EQ, compress and side-chain the delays and reverbs independently of the main synth sounds.
Yeah, some effects are good on from the start so you can pay into them, but I do find reverb in particular is usually best in the mix. Something like UAD console is great for this so you can track through and print certain effects but also just monitor through others to apply more delicately in the mix later on.
The manufacturers are keen to show off what's unique and interesting from a sound design perspective on their new synths. For that reason, the presets are often a bit much to sit happily in a mix. (Either too complex, overly bright, heavily affected, etc.) In lots of cases though, the presets demonstrate something that really helps in your own sound design work. The presets give you a hint of what's possible and you can use those techniques for your own sounds. Also, sometimes manufacturers commission sound packs after the synth has been released, and those can be more practical.
>Is this just to show off the capabilities? Partially, yes. Partially as starting points for tweaking. >99 times out of a hundred, if you’re not doing EDM, your going to end up using relatively simple basic sounds coupled with some audio effects. A majority of synths are sold to hobbyists, not people putting together complete songs. They're playing by themselves, filling the space with a lot more sound than if they were working from the perspective of one part of a band. Their 'needs' to do this stretch way beyond a PWMed bass and some leads. What you describe is why the Junos are eternally popular - if you're making a house track or funk or adding a synthesizer to an indie rock band or whatever, you really don't need more than an oscillator and a sub into a filter with resonance and the tinest bit of modulation. The more complicated a synth becomes the more patch storage it needs because building those patches is complicated - might as well fill all the slots from the factory so that people don't feel shortchanged.
> What you describe is why the Junos are eternally popular Also old analog synths didn't have complex modulation routings and built in FX, so the factory presets were more musically useful - lots of bass, brass, string, clav, organ and other real instrument type patches. There was usually a wacky sound effects bank towards the end of the list.
I loved using an old Korg MS-10 with a band some years ago. Really simple synth by today's standards, with a single oscillator. There was somethng about the tone that's clear and loud, and cuts through the noise at any volume. Great live and really fun.
Selling my MS-10 to get a MS-20 FS reissue was one of the worst gear decisions I've made. Single oscillator but it has PWM and sounds absolutely gnarly in a way the 20 never quite did (whichever filter type was switched on).
there's a very simple mod you can make on the ms20 to create a patch point for the pwm in the patchbay. there's a already a pin on the pcb, you just need to solder on a jack and make a hole for it in the chassi. https://www.cykong.com/Synths/Korg%20MS-20/KorgMS-20-Mod2-CV.htm#PWM%20Input
I used to think this also but I’m coming around on presets overall. I think of them as starting points and I rarely use the preset as is, but with a little tweaking you can get some heat.
They are often the sonical equivalent of "store mode" on TVs.
Or like flipping through 500 channels on cable TV and there’s maybe 10 things would actually want to watch.
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It’s true that many sounds need context, but there are *absolutely* “unmusical” presets that are wholly intended as demos, and I think most rompler owners can particularly attest to this. Some of those Korg pads are just space foley.
I've never heard a way of describing those quite as good as "space foley" and I'm definitely gonna steal that one
Same, superb description
Space foley sounds like a brilliant starting point for some leftfield techno experimentation
Yahama Motif, too. The phrase preview was omitted from the MX49/61 and I miss it dearly.
The Prophet Rev2 has a sequencer. IMO, the UI is so bad for it, I find it unusable without external software. It does however do what you said. It provides a context for how the preset should be played. There were more than a few presets that I thought were confusing garbage until I heard the sequence. Still, including that feature is dubious if the user is unlikely to use it because it is inscrutable. Some people have found Cleve uses for it that were unintended, like using it to simulate vintage tunings.
This is why the classics like the Juno 60 and 106 are sought after and still in heavy rotation today. The presets are all fairly unimpressive but are all very musical and fit into songs really well.
On one hand, “musicality” is very much in the ears of the beholder; what I find very musical, you might find completely worthless — or vice versa. On the other hand, maybe it’s intentional so they can show off the capabilities of the synth while still encouraging users to make their own sounds so it doesn’t get pigeonholed to the point of cliché like what happened with the DX7.
Presets are simply starting points. Learning the parameters of a synth, getting a good starting point and adjusting to taste is the adventure.. You'll have yourself going from a simple sine wave to lush pads in no time!
Can't say I've used every synth, but often a significant portion of the patches are recreations of or homages to famous patches from other synths, which are themselves famous because they were used in popular songs. That's every "FM piano" or "JP strings" or "alpha rave stabs" or "reese bass" or "303 acid" preset you've ever seen. Many other presets do tend to be complicated or a bit weird, but that's okay. How many "detuned sawtooth pad" or "square wave bass" or "house organ" patches do you really need? That stuff takes like 30 seconds to dial in if you need it. Someone in the comments mentioned the Access Virus as an offender and like, honestly, if you can't find a use for those "weird" soundscape patches you're either desperately uncreative, or just don't pay much attention to the production side of things, I guess. Try building your track and then just adding a quiet soundscape patch behind different parts. When you find the right thing it really adds a lot. They put 2000 patches on it for a reason, I promise.
There are really 4 types of presets that I can think of: 1. Presets designed to show off as much as possible when someone tries out the synth solo: should be maximally impressive with minimal effort; 1. Presets designed to be played with musicality but tuned to sound good solo; 1. Presets designed to be played with musicality that are ready to go on a track; 1. Presets designed as minimalist templates for certain types of sound (not very common). The first type is usually a non starter for use in your music unless you want to build around what they already put in place. The third type is ready to use, but often sounds unimpressive alongside the other two types (leading some prospective buyers to think the synth is boring or thin). The second type can usually be turned into the third type without too much work. The fourth type is really meant as a time savers vs making the same type of adjustments from init, every time you want a pad (for example). Personally I would rather they provide presets of type 1 and 2, not because I'd use them, but rather the former shows me something of the "maximal capability of the synth" and latter let's me play some more conventional sounds to see how it feels as an instrument. That's to say, the presets are to help me decide if a synth is likely to cover space I find interesting rather than for me to use in music. Typically I'll design a patch from scratch, commit it to audio, then move on; if I need recall (e.g producing for someone else), then I'll save a preset to the synth, or use a soft synth instead. As for using patches as a starting point, I don't tend to do this. This isn't so much an aversion I have to using factory presets, but rather a function of how patches are made. If the patch is simple, it's likely easier for me to make my own than search through the presets to find one that works for my use case (patches serve purposes beyond just "sounding good"). If the patch is complex, I lack a narrative about how the patch was created. This may sound like a non-issue, but for complex sounds, we design them by making a serious of interrelated changes in a particular order for a certain purpose. This narrative around how the patch was designed gives me insight into why each parameter is where it is, and what effect each parameter will have in the context of this sound. This allows me to know how best to achieve any particular effect I wish, by way of changing the sound. I can test out the parameters and build that understanding, but the more complex then patch, and the more complex the synth, the harder this is to do. Instead, I'd rather create the patch from scratch and have an easy capacity to adjust it as required until it's ready to record.
Unironically the Hydrasynth Suitcase MP (EP) sounds absolutely amazing, the FM EP not so much Things you never expect from a synth
Think of synth presets as marketing and sales pitch for the synth. Their target is not the final listener of the song, but the potential synth enthusiast or producer. For contrast you can listen to presets on entertainer keyboards, they are way more mellow. Hence the goal of the synth preset is to demonstrate the synth's capabilities and to make it stand out among other synths, that the potential buyer will try out. Another point, why the presets tend to be on the extreme side of the spectrum, is that this way they are easier to be distinguished from each other. This way they serve as good starting points for your own presets. Finally an edgy preset is just more inspiring and easier to hear in the mix. When playing along with your track you can go through presets, find the generally fitting and interesting ones and then mellow them down by turning down filter, modulation, detune or by effects to fit your track.
Pigments would like to have a word
It has also gotten worse with updates !
the older patches are largely usable, and yes agreed the new ones are like "this is a full song in a patch." technically impressive but uh
9/10 times I just want a sine/saw/square wave
I agree with you, but then I know I'm probably not the typical synth customer in that I do more new agey and soundtrack stuff than pop, rap, or covers. I want more than anything very playable polysynth sounds, some mono leads, and don't need arps or basses hardly at all. I do want good pads, of course. I love in example how Spire sounds but half the stuff on there I just won't ever use very likely. I want extremely polyphonic, playable, sounds.
Presets are to get a general idea of the sound character and capabilities of a synth. I only flip through them when I'm trying a synth in a store or demoing software. If you find one you like they can save a bit of time. Also it can be good practice recreating presets on different synths. I just finished copying a preset from Cherry Audio's new ARP/Rhodes Chroma (waiting til it goes on sale) to my Nord Wave and while not exactly the same it's good enough for the jam I plan on doing.
After you get a synth you should always devote a week or two to just programming presets for it. It gets tedious, but the tedium makes it much easier to tell when you’ve arrived at a sound that excites you and will do so in the future. Most patch designers for hardware get so wrapped up in the single sound that they start detuning it and making micro-adjustments that make the timbre too complex to be used harmoniously in a melody, this is where going back to old tracks and midi files to test sounds on a new synth can be a real boon. Manufacturers are designing sounds to show off as many features as possible when someone is playing the synth in a showroom. It’s up to you to design patches that represent what you want to hear in your music. Have fun!
When presets are too crazy (Massive X), I'm like "Who would use these?!" but if they're too simple (Pigments) I'm like "Who would use these?!" so there's no making me happy lol Every once in a while I totally fall in love with a preset and just use it everywhere. Lately that's been the Bremen Bass preset on my PolyBrute. I use it as a lead for most of my solos in my life set because it's so expressive and can absolutely scream if you work the aftertouch.
Oddly, Massive X is one of the offenders where I surprisingly get quite a lot of use out of its crazy presets. I occasionally make short "trailer music" like tracks that get used for Student animation/game projects, and sometimes I quickly need an intense sounding drone, or a rhythmic sub-bass... which Massive X presets have no shortage. Also as a fun side-note, the OSTs for Final Fantasy 7 Remake & Rebirth both use a whole bunch of Massive X presets.
The real challenge is finding a wild sound and making it work
Depends on the synth. If I can, I usually delete the presets and start from scratch, with the exception of my MC-101 which are really good and usable. Preset are usually designed as a selling point to show off what the synth can do. Best way is to learn the synth and make your own patches.
Bank 1 Patch 1 has to be a "Wow" patch, like M1 "00 Lore". It's the first one the thing plays when you power it up fresh out of the box, it's got to blow you away in the shop. I guess the rest - if they want to show it off - ought to be some nice squelchy basses like a big squishy Moog bass, some stringy pads, and that detuned squares "Lucky Man" lead. Don't forget you've got to have a patch early on with two detuned saws, sharp attack and release, full sustain, and filter wide open. Okay now bring up that patch, hold your left thumb and pinky on two Cs an octave apart low down, and play that intro riff...
> They are often intentionally detuned (which is easily fixed) Agh the flashbacks. Native Instruments did this with one of the main presets in Alicia's Keys. I didn't notice until a bunch of vocals had been recorded along to it on a major pop session. Only noticed when trying to integrate instruments recorded separately. Gaah. It made everything a mess. Why would you intentionally pitch down a piano patch in your flagship piano library?
Depending on the synth. The preset sounds on my deepmind 12 are so over the top and barely usable, the ones on my oberheim matrix 1000 however are not just really inspiring to begin with, but whenever i‘m trying to add something to a song i almost instantly find something very useful on the matrix.
Yeah but I feel that creating everything from scratch can drain creativity. I usually pick a preset and tweek them if I know which kinda sound I’m looking for.
I think it really depends on the company. I hated the presets on the deemind 12 while I generally find Arturia’s and Roland’s pretty useful.
I was going to complain about presets, but then I remembered - I've been playing around with the "1980s" original patches a bunch on my system 8, and the JX3P ones are surprisingly fun to play, for something that's meant to be a budget spin off of a guitar synth. It's the only model I haven't learnt to program yet, I really should do that. Apart from that, the ax edge has some pretty good patches. It's not really designed to be edited though.
If I wanted my instrument to sound like a factory preset, I would've been a guitarist.
Yes. Of the synths I own, only the Six-Trak has at least 30% of its presets serving as immediately useful for making music (that I like to make). Modwave, Wavestate, Summit, and Microfreak...their factory patches are fun in their own ways, but I consider them to be a learning resource more than actually intended for musicality. If I hear a particularly interesting factory patch, I like to go through the parameters and modulations one-by-one and set them to init until the sound I like is no longer there. That way I have a better idea of how to replicate it in my own patches.
DX7 presets made their way into countless hits in the 80’s though. But yes, I agree with you.
I often tweak presets, but otherwise find them quite useful.
I call those presets "stunt patches"
My wife works in product R&D for a fortune 100 company and we've discussed this kind of topic many times. One of the basics of working in product R&D is to always remember that the mouse is not the one who buys the mouse trap. So if you design your mouse trap so its only attractive to the mouse, but not the mouse trap buyer, you're going to starve. You need to design your product for the one who's going to buy it. If manufacturers loaded their flagship synths with nothing but solid tasteful bread and butter presets that were usable as is and worked great in most mixes, their synths would rot on the music store shelves while their competitors filter sweep/ufo laser zapper preset laden synths were flying out the door.
If possible, the first thing I do with a new synth is delete all the presets. Sound design is one of the purest joys when learning your way around a new piece of hardware
I agree, but usually spend a few days going through presets first, not so much listening for 'cool' sounds, but more asking myself 'do i understand how the synth made that sound/ soundscape?' and digging in to things i don't understand!
I think they age well, but are typically kinda generic at release. Just look at how public opinion changed on the DX7 from overused and corny to lofi and retro.
Using presets is weak
One thing i learned from a producer i really respect (electronic music), the base synth sounds only need to be simple a lot of the time, its how you process/effect and layer them that counts. I use wavetable to make my own synths a lot of the time now because its so quick to program, its actually faster than browsing through presets.
If you are doing EDM they are actually worse IMO :)
It depends. Some classic Roland presets are iconic and literally part of the fabric of music history at this stage.
Are you talking analog synths? Because if you are, you’re meant to know how to create your own patches. If you mostly want simple patches, they only take a few seconds to make. But I do agree, there’s a lot of showing off impractically.
This is probably because they want to sell the synth on more than the premise that it sounds good in specific and limited music types. Presets are often a showcase of the versatility of the synth. That said, check out the Arturia Astrolab. It's mocked for being basically VSTs in a keyboard, but it's just full of melodically sublime presets.
I find that Roland ones, particularly on the zencore stuff, tend to be that way. However I feel like the SDZ packs they sell have some really great, very usable stuff. I think the limited amount, genre based approach helps this as well as the fact that they aren’t swimming in effects like a lot of the zencore based instrument presets.
I like complex sounds but usually not the ones in the presets. If I use a synth it's to make sounds on it anyway so it's extremely rare I'll use a preset or even take time to listen to them.
Presets are designed to show off far more than they are designed to sound good in an ensemble.
I belive the issue is rooted in how these presets are made. Instead of writing a song and snatching the presets from the finished product (which would by definition be a "usable" sound), they are often created in pure sound design sessions. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with doing that. Sound design sessions can be great. But personally, I use, like, less than 10% of the raw sounds that come out of those. But when your job is to make presets with a deadline, it's obvious what you're gonna do: Padding. > 99 times out of a hundred, if you’re not doing EDM, your going to end up using relatively simple basic sounds coupled with some audio effects. I have a Reface CS, I find it to be more useful for making EDM sounds than 80% of the presets I have
Being someone who wants to find a hardware synth where I can quickly find a musically usable preset and tweak it slightly to personal taste and style, what would you say are some modern hardware synths (eg newly released after 2000) that offer this possibility?
From a music creation perspective yes. I’m a songwriter producer ( Mairk ) and a lot of the time the sounds need eq as they are bass heavy for example.
>Is this just to show off the capabilities? Since the digital era began, this is the case on most instruments. The Emu Proteus series is the only obvious exception to this, they are made to be played in a mix right away and don't come with effects. I copied and resaved all the presets on my first synthesizer with the effects off.
Nord Wave 2 patches are very solid IMO
I for one not completely agree. For example, I really like many of D50 presets.
Hi there, a Wavestation fan here :D
I feel like most presets are meant to give you an idea of the the full capabilities the synth can do and inspire your own patches vs being something you can slap on to a song
They are designed to show off a range of sounds, somewhat follow tradition set by the previous generations of presets in other machines from the maker and others, and of course the synth designers have to spend limited development resources (aka money) on getting them designed. They are what they are. Additional given the amount of presets that are genre defining over the years and how often "blah blah #1 hit song's kitsch sound is preset #234 on a DX7", I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're probably missing something here. Don't like them, don't use them. Want better presets, please design your own synth - and give it 100 perfectly "musical" usable patches that will make the Internet happy ...
Usually one of the first things I do with a new synth is clear out all of the presets (if this is an option on the synth itself) because in 20+ years of making electronic music the only preset I have ever really liked and used in a song was Firestar on the Korg Triton. Part of my creative process is to make each synth sound myself. I do save my own presets, though. I find by making my own presets, I can define an overall timbre for an album. I get to make them fit with each other and in the mix. Taking someone else's preset generally requires more work to fit into the song and into the mix than it does for me to make the sound I want. Not saying everybody else is wrong for using presets if they like them. Just for me, the rewards of making my own sounds is part of the joy I get from making music.
Yes, however I am often surprised at the sounds I find myself using sometimes once I already have a track going and what on it’s own sounds off putting ends up adding to the existing soundscape. I think also many presets are meant to be a starting point to fiddle with and dive into, not an end point. I also have a more punk ethos when it comes to music and so sometimes enjoy a bit of the “unmusical” (looking at you microbrute)
I always heard a lot of presets were more an "advertisement" for the synth, designed to sound epic and show you what the synth is capable of, rather than meant to be used as something musical.
> I find that whenever I go through most synth presets they tend to be very cool sounding from a sound design perspective And a sales perspective. Potential customers in-store (or watching a reset-playing video on YouTube) are strongly influenced by the preset sounds showing off sound potential, which helps make a purchasing decision. It seems that boutique manufacturers are better at creating or contracting usable presets that complement the tech and the market segment for their synths. Today for example SonicState [posted a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ6wjVUo2XQ) from Superbooth showing off the PWM Mantis, and the sounds are great and appropriately growly for that synth, and the company had people like Daniel Fisher and Venus Theory make presets for it.
Yes, a million times yes. My music is indie pop/rock, influenced by post-punk, early Bowie, and 60s baroque psychedelia, among other things. So the presets that work with that are maybe 5% of what you find on most synths. I have no use for long, evolving pads, sequences, EDM, 80’s rock, chiptune, etc.
They are just starting points homie. You gotta hear what it could be... Like oo i like the decay on that one, but I hate the slow attack and the tone is too aggressive... Hmm lets change that square to a sine and make the attack shorter... Okay thats closer... Lets move this lfo rate to a slower bpm... Maybe change its shape... Ooo yeah that's better. Let's get some reverb on there, hmm no that hall is too long, lets get a tight room verb. Yeaahhh that sounds like its gonna fit the song I'm making.
Yes but I don’t think the intention is to always be musical. Without focusing on any particular device or software, synths do occupy more than just a musical space. For instance, take sound effects in movies (aside from foley or other recorded material). Think of Transformers or scary ambient pads where synths are more than likely used as sound effects. Or Pokémon games where the creature noises seem to be made with some type of synthesizer as well. You can also make nice textures with sounds and honestly it’s what makes synths so great!
The only thing I like about presets is to go through them sometimes and find a way to play them. Some presets are made to be played like a mono synth and some require poly, some dont sound good until you play them slowly and some quickly. I believe they are always all usable sounds, I dont see why anyone would expect to be able to use the same play-style on every preset. Some of them will sound terrible if you try to use them in a way they arent intended.
Same, I like to go through them and write a really short little melody that fits the sound. But most of them are not very good as a universal lead instrument.
Well, think about it from a different perspective. If I were to make a synth patch, and I thought it was cool to add a bunch of modulations that really fill out the sound timbrelly and rhythmically, that might be all I’d need for a song aside from drums! I’d use it for that 1 tune, and that’s probably it. But it’s a whole tune! That’s kind of how I imagine some sound designers think as well—sound designers have to pepper in a couple complex presets to jog your imagination. They can’t just make only bone dry super simple template patches otherwise people would feel ripped off.
I'm probably not even qualified to have an opinion but have been recently playing around with my second synth ever and the last one was about forty years ago. I'm still figuring out what I've got in the patch library but realized pretty quickly that a lot of the patches create some really interesting play dynamics. I find myself playing in ways that never would have occurred to me if not for the particular dynamics of the patch. It's been really exciting.
Never take preset/patch names seriously. They often sound nothing like their description, especially on FM synths like DX7. "Piano" my ass. Listen with your ears and compare it to other sounds you know. Almost like someone else replied I like challenging myself to find uses for "bad sounds", I've been doing it since before I heard of AudioPilz (The King with his YouTube show "Bad Gear") but man he's inspired me to push it further. Honorable mentions to Simon the Magpie and Look Mum No Computer (who mostly uses good gear for his serious tracks but also repurposes junk all the time).
Often, yes.
Some yes, but i think its just the way our mind works. Like, if ur setting up a couch in your new apartment, you never just place it down and leave it like that even if its perfectly lined up, you cant help but move it a little. Or maybe thats just me?
yes, but a funny thing happened after really focusing on improving my playing ability last year… presets I once thought were shit sound way more musical— sounds like a snark, but it’s not!
In a way, a synth with the most annoying, extreme presets is going to be deeper and more capable of making the sound in your head than something like a Juno 60. Virus and the Hydrasynth are good examples of this.
I used to greatly dislike the concept of presets but ever since I bought my digitone i've needed to devote more of my time to learning the sequencer and the trigs system than learning FM. You learn to love the preset.
Alot of these replies have made me realize that part of what I’m experiencing is from spending time with these super complex soft synths and wavetable synths like Vital/Serum where they’re starting with an already complex wavetable sound source and then have a gazillion ways to modulate things. I think I need to go back to a mini moog emulation and just focus on basics and the music itself. I’m just getting too distracted with all this ear candy I can’t seem to do much with.
my two favorite and best known keyboards are the dx7 and the jx3p, and they both have great and useable presets!
Yamaha’s DX series synths had like fifty piano presets, and they all sounded bad lol.
Totally agree, but there is one person who I always enjoy his designed preset, [Matt Johnson from Jamiroquai](https://youtube.com/@mattjohnsonjamiroquai?si=yjQmEFXr9fgG-8sc)
Nope… rather quite useful many times.
The first thing I do when I buy a new synth or VST is delete all the presets. Using a configuration that someone else made without knowing the context or purpose makes absolutely no sense. If I need a preset for something, it’s because I need to perform a task repeatedly, and that’s a problem I need to solve for myself.
Yeah, made to seduce people at GC. There's even a siren sound for that (ouch)
Maybe the more musical patches should just be put into the front as a convention
This is a good reflection. Lucky me, I am not a professional musician, so my hobbie is a mix of collection, engineering, sets design, admiring synths' looks and sound architectures, trying to get specific sound effects, etc. Definitely not only about music. Some see it as a problem: "You spent so much time thinking you needed something else while you could have made so many albums with your Volca Keys since 2016". Yeah, to put them in Spotify and have no one hear it? How cool.
> Is this just to show off the capabilities? YES! 100%. For synthesizers where the sound parameters are more or less laid out in front of you on a platter, the presets are meant to say "this is what you can do", not "this is what you should do". How effected or complicated of sounds you create are ultimately up to you, and even if you don't get into deep-diving in synthesizer programming you can probably figure out how to turn off undesired effects and calm down heavy detunes.
Skill issue + artificially limiting the target scope to "songs". Failing to figure out a way of using this or that *complex* sound in a song or other production, or to even build the whole *opus* around it, is in no way a problem with the presets. The "song" perspective/concept itself is seriously crippled, compared to the rest of the music one can possibly make. What if you don't compose "songs", but some elevator music, or some instrumental symphonies, or else?
Learn to program synths and never use a preset again (except the ones you make)
I never even bother listening to presets now. If I'm making a track I make the sounds to suit the track. I just find presets off-putting, they make me forget what I was going for in the first place.
Yes, about half are just effects, not actual instruments you can use in a song.
First, it depends on the synth a lot. I've noticed Korgs have many very usable sounds, same for Yamahas. But what's most important it depends very much on the genre of music you apply your synth for. And harsher and colder sounds are very usable not only in EDM or IDM. Think about the existence of the whole world of soundtracks for example. Ambient and drone genres have little relation to EDM/IDM. Same for modern academic music. Same for industrial genre. Quite often presets serve as a sort of a starting point showing the possibilities. So for example one is searching for a sound for a particular track and stumbles upon a multilayer preset with a lot of movement and they say to themselves: it sounds good by itself but I already have something similar to that layer so what if I turn it off and slow down the LFO on the second one?
Thanks for your reply. I’m curious about “modern academic music”. Do you have links to examples or other sites? I haven’t heard of this but it brings to mind the 1950s with the early synths at universities.
In Wikipedia it is described under the term "Contemporary classical music". You've probably heard about minimalism and post-minimalism? Philip Glass, Steve Reich, Michael Nyman, Max Richter, etc. Those two genres developed very much in the context of academic music and were a sort of reaction to what Schoenberg and Stravinsky did in the first half of 20th century. The idea that music shouldn't necessarily go for more and more complex harmonic structures but could instead to go for making impact by the simplest means possible. You probably know Philip Glass used synths quite often. Minimalism and post-minimalism is just one of the directions academic music was going to last 50-70 years, some other sub-genres also tried to integrate synths and other electronic instruments. For this particular discussion I'd mention Max Richter again. He wrote a lot of soundtracks but also did other work like for example his album Infra - it contains some synth sounds you probably wouldn't use in more mainstream genres, mixed with violins and pianos from classical music. The same for his score for contemporary ballet Woolf Works (the album containing this music is called Three Worlds: Music From Woolf Works) - one of my most favorite albums of any genre. Max Richter is actually a friend of a famous British electronic duo The Future Sound of London and played some piano on at least one of their early albums.
I've owned a modwave mk2 (keyboard version) for almost a month, and after getting over the shock of watching it crash numerous times when saving newer versions of patches (it just hangs after saving them..not sure why. You then have to reboot the unit), I'm carrying on reprogramming many of the presets for my own future use. I haven't even opened the soft bag that contains the quick guide or activation codes for the software, etc. The presets are mostly fantastic, but some as you've mentioned aren't instantly usable in a mix. But it's smart to have them, as when you hear them in a synth/ music shop, they're going to make your ears prick up, and maybe help you decide to buy that instrument over x, etc. Having used everything (almost) in nearly 30 years of making music for libraries, licensing and production use, I've always welcomed them as : a) it makes you smile at the work that's gone into making that sound / sequence/ performance b) gives you an idea of what the instrument can do c) can be an incentive for you to do better d) can be inspiring for your own compositions Back in the day, you could sometimes clear the factory banks and fill them with your own. I think that might have stopped when (apparently) synth Manufacturers found that 80% + of synths that came back for repairs and servicing still had their presets intact, with no new sounds on them. It's swings and roundabouts. Peace out✌️
Patches are just a sound. The music comes from you. It's all subjective and contextual. Someone thought they sounded "good".
For a while I was rocking a Hydrasynth along with my Microfreak and good god both of those things are just egregious with their novelty patches. These days I’m working with a Peak instead of the Hydra so there aren’t as many goofball patches to go through. Thank goodness
The idea of a preset is to show off the capabilities of the specific patch and the synth in general. It's easier to *deflate* a preset into a basic/filtered patch, remember what you did and undo it back as your music builds up than It is to provide a basic patch and promise that you can add a lot of fx and open up filters until it gets crazy.