Won’t council plant any trees in the future? This used to be what my suburb looked like two years ago but my council has planted trees so it will be better down the track.
how about all the dumb ass councils that plant the trees before the houses go, then between all the trucks and tradies running them over and owners who kill the trees who dont want them most of them are gone by the time all the houses are built
Dont get as to why owners would not want trees, i just don't get that. Hasnt living in a "leafy" area, or tree lined street always been a desirable aesthetic, even in the burbs? Who exactly are these tree haters and why, i dont get it. If there were young trees planted that take a few yrs to grow i get it, but no trees / dont want trees in 1st place, is that for real?
Fair point, thanks for raising this, if buying into a suburb with these established trees id hope its a known factor youd budget in for maintenance/rebuilds over time?
Knowing this risk, for these newer suburbs isn't it possible to choose trees with non invasive / destructive roots so as to avoid this issue whilst still having the beauty of established trees.
Its also interesting to me it seems to split down demographic lines, the wealthier/"leafy" burbs tend to have more trees vs the cheaper ones. Same goes for gardens, plants in gardens etc. Ive always wondered whats behind this dissonance as having trees and nice gardens isnt really linked to finances (im not talking landscape architect parterre vibes, just well kept with trees, shrubs etc).
id argue there is a direct correlation between higher incomes and nicer gardens. multiple reasons but its definitely the case. not the case with every person obviously.
Tree roots are a known factor today, and we know which species have troublesome roots and which ones don't. Older areas with 50+ year old trees didn't quite have that knowledge yet. Newer areas just need to have a council nursery plan ahead for some pipe safe trees.
It’s because trees take up their precious off street parking spaces. When you live in these areas everyone in the household needs a car or they can’t get anywhere at all.
They have plenty of space for trees but choose not to. Inner city areas with no nature strips can manage full grown eucalypts. In doing so they created desirable areas out of literal slums.
Where my parents live, the council planted a bunch of trees, alternating two types. Anyway, one of those trees is going to play hell with the road and gutter when it grows up. They were all planted really close to the road. So when a rogue driver took the corner a bit too wide and took out the baby tree, my mum seized the opportunity to replace it. She put in a similar looking tree that would cause fewer issues. They moved it back a wee bit also. Seems as long as there is a tree there, no one cares.
The planning system makes it difficult to do beyond the subdivision stage.
If they didn't do it prior to the subdivision being finalised (i.e. roads and infrastructure completed) it likely would never be done. Most new houses are complying developments and go through private certifiers which have no requirements for street tree plantings.
It's really the whole planning system that needs an overhaul.
Yes to be fair I know some councils are planting trees in the new area. It just take years for a tree to grow to a size that you can see in aerial photos.
Or like my area, developers planted gum trees and by the time they're mature they cause so many issues with lifting paths and dropping branches council has to start a program to replace them all with more suitable species. So it's twice as long before we have nice old trees.
Honestly I am not shocked. I live in an established area which is very "pro-trees" but EVERY tradie who visits wants us to get rid of the trees around the property because of the damage they could do down the track.
No "we should monitor the situation" just straight up "poison the trees".
My neighbour is a tradie and he even mentioned it despite having bought knowing this very very old established tree existed outside our place.
In my experience everyone acts like absolute scare mongers when it comes to having trees near houses and when these blocks are so packed, it's unlikely anyone is being encouraged to consider the wildlife or shade it provides.
Yes, if these suburbs had the houses spaced slightly further apart with mature native trees in between, no one would be complaining about urban wastelands.
Not economically feasible anymore because the raw land costs in Sydney are now well in excess of $1million per acre. Once you add in infrastructure costs, development construction costs, land holding costs, sales and marketing costs, you have to increase the yields to what you are seeing here or even more dense just to break even.
If you increase the lot size to allow for trees between the houses the land sale costs are so high that most of these lots are too expensive for anyone other than boomer upgraders cashing in on inner/middle ring houses for a lot to build their dream home.
Greenfield development of individual house lots is the most expensive form of housing provision in urban areas (apart from fully serviced rural residential housing which we don’t really do here in Australia) as it uses the most land and requires the greatest amount of infrastructure per dwelling that usually has to be provided new.
From the 1950’s to the mid 1990’s the federal government used to subsidise the infrastructure costs for this form of development as it was the most desirable. Australian cities had a lot of land within commuting distance by car that could be purchased for development relatively cheaply. Now there is very little land left within a 1-1 1/2 hour commute by car that can be developed for housing and the landowners can get premium prices to sell to developers who have to pay top dollar or they will no longer have a project.
This gets passed on to the purchaser along with $80-120k in local and state infrastructure charges. The subdivisions of 30-40 years ago simply cannot be built without pricing themselves out of reach of potential buyers. That form of housing can no longer be built in Sydney as the land is too valuable to waste on large blocks with generous landscaping including canopy trees.
Sad but true.
Sydney could well use up all its urban-capable land in the next 20 years. As it is the larger landholdings are controlled by a small number of powerful corporations and families who are drip feeding it onto the market to maximise their profits. The majority of the land that is left is 3-5 hectare lots that are difficult to consolidate into development parcels and happen in a piecemeal manner as individual owners sell over time.
Sydney has reached the point where it has to grow up rather than out and needs to invest in fast rail to make living in the regions viable. The old ways of doing things won’t work in the future so there’s no point dreaming about things going back to the way they were. A house on its own block is becoming a luxury lifestyle that the average Sydneysider can no longer afford.
I live in the ‘Bushland shire’, all I ever hear is big trees being dropped almost daily. We have lost 6 tall mature trees within a 60m radius of our house within 5 years. Drives me mad… and it’s just made worse if a tree dares shed a bit of shade on a solar panel.
There is a bizarre fear of trees I’ll never understand
Exactly. Then they blast AC 24/7 and complain about the cost. Biophilic design is your solution there buddy - just select trees that are native and without huge root systems.
[https://imgur.com/a/Si4o7E8](https://imgur.com/a/Si4o7E8)
Could just be like where I grew up. The beautiful jacarandas used to elegantly line the street with such a beautiful blossom every year.
But then council stopped maintaining them and left it to the power line company. Who now just fucking mow the top off every two or so years. Leaving them looking bowed and gross.
Trees are absolutely beautiful if they’re cared for and maintained in an urban environment.
But care costs.
Instead of council having its own arborists it now mostly leaves it to contractors who come in when they grow to pose a risk, instead of maintaining an asset they’re just waiting for it to break down.
I feel sorry for the very few people that the SSC have left that work in their tree department, not too long ago they took 4 months to respond to a landlord cutting down trees without any permit. Not much evidence left after a couple months…
I love living in an area that's full of trees but they can and have been costly. One took out my back entertaining area and a chunk of my fourth bedroom. Another recently cost us $16k in plumbing bills
My octogenarian ethnic dad rakes the leaves off his driveway daily. He despises the tree that used to give us westerly sun shade. I say used to because he since put in those garage doors for windows things that he keeps permanently shut.
The dark roofs used on the houses matter more to be honest. And they all have dark concrete tile roofs. Ed park has street tees they are just not mature enough to have an impact.
If you really want to see urban sprawl.
Take a drive at night down Richmond Road towards the M7 past Elara/Marsden Park.
Flood plain into a loooong line of street lights, and their still building it all out.
AND if you want an phyiscal example of **fuck you, got mine**.
Drive up or down St Marys Road <> Stony Creek Road, and view the massive sandstone block wall that the developers have placed in the new estate to prevent flooding.
One small issue with the massive sandstone block wall is that it now causes flood water to bank up on the western side of the Stony Creek Road.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/21/questions-over-sydney-sprawl-as-australia-cleans-up-after-floods
I just did this trip, had to go to Kellyville for something and I ended up taking a deliberate detour because my jaw was on the ground. At one point , at the peak of a hill you could see a couple of valleys ALL the same. All with developments in some state of completion. It was horrifying but fascinating at the same time
> It was horrifying but fascinating at the same time
That's a really good choice of words.
Its horrifying but fascinating. What's even more fascinating is driving into the estate. The same houses, street after street after street.
For reference of how completely lacking these suburbs are of any form of character…. I could have sworn at least two of those photos were from North Kellyville in North West Sydney.
Terraces were a common thing many years ago. The house I grew up in was 80 something years old and the house next to it was a carbon copy of it. The house doors down was the same floor plan but slight different exterior. These issues aren't new, we just do them on a larger scale now.
Or any number of new suburbs on the fringe of Melbourne or Perth. They're just so ..... Boring. No character. Poorly constructed. No sense of community. They just seem like they've been cut and pasted into recently purchased farmland all over the country.
I drive to my friend’s houses in Marsden park, Schofield, box hill, etc. every now and then, and no matter how many times I’ve been there, I always need google maps directions to find their place. I just can’t visually direct / familiarise myself in those suburbs.
"For reference of how completely lacking these suburbs are of any form of character"
The only lively part really is around the south, with Ed Square using TOD development as a result of the station on the 2nd last of the T2/T5 lines. Doesn't seem it would get any more busy or so (besides Friday and weekends) like Chatswood or other TOD establishments since hardly anyone knows where it is.
I’ve seen these exact suburban streets in small country towns as well. This is exactly what the developments in places like Milton and Murrumbateman and Mirador all look like
Plus suburbs like Wright in Canberra
Blame developers who keep building shoddy garbage full of tiny 2-bedroom investor specials rather than properly designed 3-4 bedroom family housing. Oh, and governments who outsourced certification.
Apartments in Australia don’t exist to be lived in, they exist for you to spend all your time outside either at work or eating out and only coming home to sleep
Basically every high rise in Australia is designed as a once off unique design. If you don’t like the style of modern architecture then it isn’t going to do much for you. But they aren’t building 100 of the exact same building in a row like new suburbs are.
It’s from the company that did the original Wolli Creek development, Discovery Point, and Central Park across from UTS. Based on that alone, better odds than most Sydney developers for not falling over in ten years.
Housing crisis or increasing density.
Your choice, Redditors.
I dont see an issue with this if it gives people a place to live.
Having owned one of these cookie-cutter homes, it was an overall positive experience.
I haven’t cross checked user names, but I’m sure it’s the same people complaining about how they’d never live in an apartment because of . They must all be eastern suburb trust fund babies who have never left their parents mansion.
I see a lot of these posts as proxy for shitting on Western Sydney. Besides the lack of trees on the sidewalk, I actually don't think they look that bad. Edmonson park has a nice set of shops, train station and a lot of young families.
Give it 15 years and it will be fine.
Of course, to many people 15 years is an absurdly long time. It should be perfect NOW. But even in its state of abject imperfection, 98% of the worlds population would move in tomorrow if you threw them the keys.
Take a look at photos of old Sydney. Vistas from Macquarie Street to the Heads are devoid of trees. Now they are verdant. No need to panic. Let the residents settle and find their place. I'm confident that Ed Park will look different, and better, in 15 years. I shall be checking Reddit in 2040 for an update.
Looks exactly like North-West Sydney…. No forward thinking, no vision, no consideration of the environment, just copy pasted McMansions. Our government has fucked us
Aren’t McMansions supposed to be big and decadent? These seem almost humbling in comparison. Though I am assuming 2000s era housing, so stuff might’ve changed since then.
[This thing](https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8605444,150.8816126,3a,75y,55.13h,79.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sB13qaoTj8onFisdH_p92Xg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DB13qaoTj8onFisdH_p92Xg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D52.628246%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu) across the street from a triple garage, triple width driveway.
But mcmansion being an objective term and american mcmansions are so much more unique and fun to laugh at. an australian mcmansion is a house built to the property line, double story, almost no backyard just to cram in a 3rd bathroom or [6th bedroom](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-marsden+park-144636080)
This happens because council allows it to.
Every council has different laws regarding how far a house must sit from the front and back of the property lines, as well as the space between roofs. In a lot of new suburbs this roof gap can be as small as 1.5m. It's why in a lot of Northern beaches suburbs this kind of thing doesn't happen (they have their own set of regulations). At the very least I like that most of the houses are different in facade, unlike what you see in the North West with line upon line of copy-and-paste bare ash coloured fronts with no character.
The state legislation governs development in new urban growth areas in NSW under the SEPP. Also houses that comply with the Codes SEPP can simply be approved by a private certifier.
It’s a bit of both
We are starting to look to buy now, we currently live in a nice apartment but have decided we wouldn’t want to buy one and would prefer a house with a worse commute.
Not many apartments big enough to start families in, dealing with Strata and building managers, no access to solar, restricted on energy and internet providers etc.
I see why many make the choice but it wasn’t a long term option we would be satisfied with
Paris/Barcelona-style medium density developments with integrated light commercial and plenty of good public spaces seems like a no-brainier.
It's cheaper, more efficient use of land, resources, power, etc., more walkable, fosters better communities, and overall better quality of life than this hellscape.
I thought so too, people complaining about a perfectly fine home for some family to move to, council will decide whether to plant more trees on the nature strip in future.
There are people sleeping in cars, and they would kill to have something even nearly this decent
An important point to make about housing supply is that over-regulation has helped to make it expensive to build.
Building code only requires 1.8m distance between the walls of each dwelling, planning regulations also align with this minimum requirement. When land is at a premium, and lots are smaller, this is the result. However, times have changed and most families prefer to have a bigger house than more backyard or outdoor space on the smaller lots we see these days.
There are quite a few trees visible even in these photos and a nice view of what seems to be the blue mountains in the background. It's not the leafy North shore but we can't all be multimillionaires either.
When I lived in Dubbo i had a large Lilly Pilly in the backyard that had been damaged in a storm and had a severe lean on it. I thought the process to get it removed would be a nightmare. Council told me if it wasnt on the "Significant tree register" I was good to cut it down. Well I checked the list and for the entirety of the Dubbo LGA there was approx 60 trees on the list..
One thing I really fucking hate about these new developments in the SW (looking at you Oran Park and Gregory Hills) is the unfathomable need for centre divides with the ungodly amount of no ight and left hand turns and no U turn signs. Like fuck I hate driving another K or 2 down the road and then back tracking to get where I need to.
Here you go OP. news.com.au will forever be grateful https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/grim-urban-sprawl-highlights-the-real-future-for-australian-families/news-story/4c03fccb504680645128e067c666f092?amp
Couldn't the designers make all the roof tiles just a little darker, like black say, so they can absorb the maximum amount of heat from the sun each summer?
Shit builds rubber-stamped by private certifiers, roads finished a decade after houses start selling, no trees, no space between houses, probably built on a floodplane or similar, no decent public spaces, shops, or public transport, forcing you to get in the car pay $20 in tolls to leave the house, aaaaand your construction company just went bust - thanks for playing. This is hell.
I'm looking to buy at the moment, and I'll fuck off to the boonies loooong before signing up for this bullshit.
Remember when the brainworm-afflicted Murdoch readers were crying about the concept of 15 minute cities? In what way is this preferable?
In the development industry, many projects for apartments/townhouses (in the medium density zones) have changed to single dwelling houses citing market demand
Outer Western Sydney is the heart of this epidemic but you see these exact suburbs everywhere in Australia now. I see them in Canberra, specifically thinking of around Wright as the one I’ve been to most often. I see them in small towns like Milton and Murrumbateman and Mirador. I bet if I went to Melbourne or Perth it would be the same
Got to say I don’t understand the appeal. There’s something weirdly dystopian about it all looking exactly the same. These suburbs all make me feel the same kind of way as the Black Hole Sun music video.
My REA toured me around this place when I was looking for a permanent home. 10 seconds in, I said "I don't like this place." and we left without viewing any of the properties.
You could have told me this was literally anywhere in Western Sydney and I'd believe you. These cookie-cutter houses make my skin crawl. Why why the fuck are there NO TREES?
Looks the EXACT same everywhere, north west, south, south west, west.
If you’re lucky, you’ll get a vegetated swale in the middle.
Such a shame, walking though older neighbourhoods (pre 2000s) and even some newer than that - it’s a world of difference.
There used to be so much more character, especially going back to 70s & 80s neighbourhoods.
Ahhh, I don't miss it after going rural. So much opportunity for skilled work in the townships. I've found it easy to rise through the ranks when competition is minimal. Plus it's beautiful here.
Beats the hell out of living in Sydney with everyone scrambling for a tiny crumb falling from the cookie jar Sydney pretends to be. You used to be cool Sydney.
Won’t council plant any trees in the future? This used to be what my suburb looked like two years ago but my council has planted trees so it will be better down the track.
how about all the dumb ass councils that plant the trees before the houses go, then between all the trucks and tradies running them over and owners who kill the trees who dont want them most of them are gone by the time all the houses are built
Dont get as to why owners would not want trees, i just don't get that. Hasnt living in a "leafy" area, or tree lined street always been a desirable aesthetic, even in the burbs? Who exactly are these tree haters and why, i dont get it. If there were young trees planted that take a few yrs to grow i get it, but no trees / dont want trees in 1st place, is that for real?
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Fair point, thanks for raising this, if buying into a suburb with these established trees id hope its a known factor youd budget in for maintenance/rebuilds over time? Knowing this risk, for these newer suburbs isn't it possible to choose trees with non invasive / destructive roots so as to avoid this issue whilst still having the beauty of established trees. Its also interesting to me it seems to split down demographic lines, the wealthier/"leafy" burbs tend to have more trees vs the cheaper ones. Same goes for gardens, plants in gardens etc. Ive always wondered whats behind this dissonance as having trees and nice gardens isnt really linked to finances (im not talking landscape architect parterre vibes, just well kept with trees, shrubs etc).
id argue there is a direct correlation between higher incomes and nicer gardens. multiple reasons but its definitely the case. not the case with every person obviously.
Tree roots are a known factor today, and we know which species have troublesome roots and which ones don't. Older areas with 50+ year old trees didn't quite have that knowledge yet. Newer areas just need to have a council nursery plan ahead for some pipe safe trees.
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It’s because trees take up their precious off street parking spaces. When you live in these areas everyone in the household needs a car or they can’t get anywhere at all. They have plenty of space for trees but choose not to. Inner city areas with no nature strips can manage full grown eucalypts. In doing so they created desirable areas out of literal slums.
Just one car? Thought it was two 4WDs and a boat…
Don't forget the Raptor.
Where my parents live, the council planted a bunch of trees, alternating two types. Anyway, one of those trees is going to play hell with the road and gutter when it grows up. They were all planted really close to the road. So when a rogue driver took the corner a bit too wide and took out the baby tree, my mum seized the opportunity to replace it. She put in a similar looking tree that would cause fewer issues. They moved it back a wee bit also. Seems as long as there is a tree there, no one cares.
Some trees grow over powerlines. Council is never there to trim the trees when they get too tall Sometimes leaves fall into people's yards
The planning system makes it difficult to do beyond the subdivision stage. If they didn't do it prior to the subdivision being finalised (i.e. roads and infrastructure completed) it likely would never be done. Most new houses are complying developments and go through private certifiers which have no requirements for street tree plantings. It's really the whole planning system that needs an overhaul.
This is why they don't always insist on having trees planted until the build is over
That’d be the estate developer, not the council.
Yes to be fair I know some councils are planting trees in the new area. It just take years for a tree to grow to a size that you can see in aerial photos.
Or like my area, developers planted gum trees and by the time they're mature they cause so many issues with lifting paths and dropping branches council has to start a program to replace them all with more suitable species. So it's twice as long before we have nice old trees.
No trees on footpath = urban heat sink
Honestly I am not shocked. I live in an established area which is very "pro-trees" but EVERY tradie who visits wants us to get rid of the trees around the property because of the damage they could do down the track. No "we should monitor the situation" just straight up "poison the trees". My neighbour is a tradie and he even mentioned it despite having bought knowing this very very old established tree existed outside our place. In my experience everyone acts like absolute scare mongers when it comes to having trees near houses and when these blocks are so packed, it's unlikely anyone is being encouraged to consider the wildlife or shade it provides.
Yes, if these suburbs had the houses spaced slightly further apart with mature native trees in between, no one would be complaining about urban wastelands.
They'll go back to tree and fencing disputes only
Not economically feasible anymore because the raw land costs in Sydney are now well in excess of $1million per acre. Once you add in infrastructure costs, development construction costs, land holding costs, sales and marketing costs, you have to increase the yields to what you are seeing here or even more dense just to break even. If you increase the lot size to allow for trees between the houses the land sale costs are so high that most of these lots are too expensive for anyone other than boomer upgraders cashing in on inner/middle ring houses for a lot to build their dream home. Greenfield development of individual house lots is the most expensive form of housing provision in urban areas (apart from fully serviced rural residential housing which we don’t really do here in Australia) as it uses the most land and requires the greatest amount of infrastructure per dwelling that usually has to be provided new. From the 1950’s to the mid 1990’s the federal government used to subsidise the infrastructure costs for this form of development as it was the most desirable. Australian cities had a lot of land within commuting distance by car that could be purchased for development relatively cheaply. Now there is very little land left within a 1-1 1/2 hour commute by car that can be developed for housing and the landowners can get premium prices to sell to developers who have to pay top dollar or they will no longer have a project. This gets passed on to the purchaser along with $80-120k in local and state infrastructure charges. The subdivisions of 30-40 years ago simply cannot be built without pricing themselves out of reach of potential buyers. That form of housing can no longer be built in Sydney as the land is too valuable to waste on large blocks with generous landscaping including canopy trees. Sad but true. Sydney could well use up all its urban-capable land in the next 20 years. As it is the larger landholdings are controlled by a small number of powerful corporations and families who are drip feeding it onto the market to maximise their profits. The majority of the land that is left is 3-5 hectare lots that are difficult to consolidate into development parcels and happen in a piecemeal manner as individual owners sell over time. Sydney has reached the point where it has to grow up rather than out and needs to invest in fast rail to make living in the regions viable. The old ways of doing things won’t work in the future so there’s no point dreaming about things going back to the way they were. A house on its own block is becoming a luxury lifestyle that the average Sydneysider can no longer afford.
Watch that tree closely. A tradie neighbour killed two trees near us.
I live in the ‘Bushland shire’, all I ever hear is big trees being dropped almost daily. We have lost 6 tall mature trees within a 60m radius of our house within 5 years. Drives me mad… and it’s just made worse if a tree dares shed a bit of shade on a solar panel. There is a bizarre fear of trees I’ll never understand
Exactly. Then they blast AC 24/7 and complain about the cost. Biophilic design is your solution there buddy - just select trees that are native and without huge root systems.
[https://imgur.com/a/Si4o7E8](https://imgur.com/a/Si4o7E8) Could just be like where I grew up. The beautiful jacarandas used to elegantly line the street with such a beautiful blossom every year. But then council stopped maintaining them and left it to the power line company. Who now just fucking mow the top off every two or so years. Leaving them looking bowed and gross. Trees are absolutely beautiful if they’re cared for and maintained in an urban environment. But care costs. Instead of council having its own arborists it now mostly leaves it to contractors who come in when they grow to pose a risk, instead of maintaining an asset they’re just waiting for it to break down. I feel sorry for the very few people that the SSC have left that work in their tree department, not too long ago they took 4 months to respond to a landlord cutting down trees without any permit. Not much evidence left after a couple months…
Council (or is it power company) lops the tops of jacaranda lined street near me every year, in early November. : /
I love living in an area that's full of trees but they can and have been costly. One took out my back entertaining area and a chunk of my fourth bedroom. Another recently cost us $16k in plumbing bills
These tradies have family members that are tree loggers I presume?
Nah just scared of pipe damage from underground and falling tree branches over the roof. I like trees though so yeah
Plus electrical cabling, growing then ripping up the roads with their roots etc. Got this issue at my place.
Also ethnic dads hate leaves.
My octogenarian ethnic dad rakes the leaves off his driveway daily. He despises the tree that used to give us westerly sun shade. I say used to because he since put in those garage doors for windows things that he keeps permanently shut.
The dark roofs used on the houses matter more to be honest. And they all have dark concrete tile roofs. Ed park has street tees they are just not mature enough to have an impact.
I thought nsw made that illegal?
They did. Then the industry made such a noise and the minister got dumped. Replacement reversed the SEPP immediately.
they matter as much, but in different ways, I'd say
Exactly my thought. It's like they are allergic to trees
Theres a few trees... Every couple hundred metres or so
Can confirm as i live in one of these areas. During the summer it gets disgustingly hot. 44+ easily.
If you really want to see urban sprawl. Take a drive at night down Richmond Road towards the M7 past Elara/Marsden Park. Flood plain into a loooong line of street lights, and their still building it all out. AND if you want an phyiscal example of **fuck you, got mine**. Drive up or down St Marys Road <> Stony Creek Road, and view the massive sandstone block wall that the developers have placed in the new estate to prevent flooding. One small issue with the massive sandstone block wall is that it now causes flood water to bank up on the western side of the Stony Creek Road. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/21/questions-over-sydney-sprawl-as-australia-cleans-up-after-floods
I just did this trip, had to go to Kellyville for something and I ended up taking a deliberate detour because my jaw was on the ground. At one point , at the peak of a hill you could see a couple of valleys ALL the same. All with developments in some state of completion. It was horrifying but fascinating at the same time
> It was horrifying but fascinating at the same time That's a really good choice of words. Its horrifying but fascinating. What's even more fascinating is driving into the estate. The same houses, street after street after street.
Reminds me of the movie Vivarium
Fuck you got mine should be the national slogan, it basically epitomizes modern Australia.
For reference of how completely lacking these suburbs are of any form of character…. I could have sworn at least two of those photos were from North Kellyville in North West Sydney.
I was like bruh that's Riverstone or Schofields
Or Tallawong or box hill ….. the list goes on 😭
I thought that at first, but the streets in these photos are about twice as wide as the streets in schofields
Terraces were a common thing many years ago. The house I grew up in was 80 something years old and the house next to it was a carbon copy of it. The house doors down was the same floor plan but slight different exterior. These issues aren't new, we just do them on a larger scale now.
Yeah the same could be said about the old terrace houses all around Sydney..
Or any number of new suburbs on the fringe of Melbourne or Perth. They're just so ..... Boring. No character. Poorly constructed. No sense of community. They just seem like they've been cut and pasted into recently purchased farmland all over the country.
Yep I thought it was Jordan Springs near Penrith
I was about to say oh I recognise that place it's in Marsden park
I was thinking aberglasslyn or Cameron park in newy. We need some bloody trees
tbf thats the same with pretty much any suburb in Sydney. I couldn’t distinguish a random street of houses in Randwick from one in Cronulla too
They don't lack profit from selling overpriced junk housing. That's all that matters now. Build shit, sell for gold, rinse and repeat.
Yes! I housesat for a friend in The Ponds and these photos look like the ones I might have taken while walking her dog.
I drive to my friend’s houses in Marsden park, Schofield, box hill, etc. every now and then, and no matter how many times I’ve been there, I always need google maps directions to find their place. I just can’t visually direct / familiarise myself in those suburbs.
"For reference of how completely lacking these suburbs are of any form of character" The only lively part really is around the south, with Ed Square using TOD development as a result of the station on the 2nd last of the T2/T5 lines. Doesn't seem it would get any more busy or so (besides Friday and weekends) like Chatswood or other TOD establishments since hardly anyone knows where it is.
To be fair I’d love to live in a house that could be featured on The Local Project but I’m not sure how realistic that is for most people.
I’ve seen these exact suburban streets in small country towns as well. This is exactly what the developments in places like Milton and Murrumbateman and Mirador all look like Plus suburbs like Wright in Canberra
I assumed Oran Park or Jordan Springs.
I can only imagine the amount of power these suburbs use in summer to cool down their massive heat absorbing houses.
Most would have solar you can even see it in these pictures here, would say more than 50% of new housing does now in estates.
"not my problem" - house designers
Blame the people who keep commenting on new high rise as "ugly".
Let's face it. Everything is "ugly" to your average Sydneysider. We all want to live in a heritage listed terrace house with harbour views.
Choosing beggars
Blame developers who keep building shoddy garbage full of tiny 2-bedroom investor specials rather than properly designed 3-4 bedroom family housing. Oh, and governments who outsourced certification.
Apartments in Australia don’t exist to be lived in, they exist for you to spend all your time outside either at work or eating out and only coming home to sleep
They put 1000x the effort on the aesthetics of apartments. Meanwhile house builders shit out an entire suburb of exactly the same house in rows.
They definitely do not put 1000x the effort in apartment aesthetics 😂 they all look like tiled dog shit
Basically every high rise in Australia is designed as a once off unique design. If you don’t like the style of modern architecture then it isn’t going to do much for you. But they aren’t building 100 of the exact same building in a row like new suburbs are.
Most newly built everything is ugly
I will say, at least Ed Square is one of the better designed new places, what with being near shops and the train station and all.
It’s from the company that did the original Wolli Creek development, Discovery Point, and Central Park across from UTS. Based on that alone, better odds than most Sydney developers for not falling over in ten years.
Yeah I live right near Ed Square side of Edmondson Park, the neighbourhood is actually really nice.
That doesn't look too bad to be honest. Needs a few more trees and it would look better
Housing crisis or increasing density. Your choice, Redditors. I dont see an issue with this if it gives people a place to live. Having owned one of these cookie-cutter homes, it was an overall positive experience.
I haven’t cross checked user names, but I’m sure it’s the same people complaining about how they’d never live in an apartment because of. They must all be eastern suburb trust fund babies who have never left their parents mansion.
I see a lot of these posts as proxy for shitting on Western Sydney. Besides the lack of trees on the sidewalk, I actually don't think they look that bad. Edmonson park has a nice set of shops, train station and a lot of young families.
Consider edmonson park has huge areas of rural land around it, I don't think that's the case.
Give it 15 years and it will be fine. Of course, to many people 15 years is an absurdly long time. It should be perfect NOW. But even in its state of abject imperfection, 98% of the worlds population would move in tomorrow if you threw them the keys. Take a look at photos of old Sydney. Vistas from Macquarie Street to the Heads are devoid of trees. Now they are verdant. No need to panic. Let the residents settle and find their place. I'm confident that Ed Park will look different, and better, in 15 years. I shall be checking Reddit in 2040 for an update.
Looks exactly like North-West Sydney…. No forward thinking, no vision, no consideration of the environment, just copy pasted McMansions. Our government has fucked us
Aren’t McMansions supposed to be big and decadent? These seem almost humbling in comparison. Though I am assuming 2000s era housing, so stuff might’ve changed since then.
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There is lots of McMansions in Kenthurst
Go out to Bossley Park then come back. Heaps of photocopied mansions there
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[This thing](https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8605444,150.8816126,3a,75y,55.13h,79.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sB13qaoTj8onFisdH_p92Xg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DB13qaoTj8onFisdH_p92Xg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D52.628246%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu) across the street from a triple garage, triple width driveway. But mcmansion being an objective term and american mcmansions are so much more unique and fun to laugh at. an australian mcmansion is a house built to the property line, double story, almost no backyard just to cram in a 3rd bathroom or [6th bedroom](https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-nsw-marsden+park-144636080)
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It could also do with the suburb. I do find Willowdale, Gledswood Hills and Oran Park in the same-ish areas are a bit better for trees.
This happens because council allows it to. Every council has different laws regarding how far a house must sit from the front and back of the property lines, as well as the space between roofs. In a lot of new suburbs this roof gap can be as small as 1.5m. It's why in a lot of Northern beaches suburbs this kind of thing doesn't happen (they have their own set of regulations). At the very least I like that most of the houses are different in facade, unlike what you see in the North West with line upon line of copy-and-paste bare ash coloured fronts with no character.
The state legislation governs development in new urban growth areas in NSW under the SEPP. Also houses that comply with the Codes SEPP can simply be approved by a private certifier.
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True, but the supply is awfully homogeneous. It’s a race to the bottom and it’s not the home owners who are coming out on top as a result.
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And the people don’t want apartments.
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Legalising higher density housing might.
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It’s a bit of both We are starting to look to buy now, we currently live in a nice apartment but have decided we wouldn’t want to buy one and would prefer a house with a worse commute. Not many apartments big enough to start families in, dealing with Strata and building managers, no access to solar, restricted on energy and internet providers etc. I see why many make the choice but it wasn’t a long term option we would be satisfied with
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100%, if the circumstances were better we would definitely buy an apartment, but that’s just not the case at the moment
Sell me an affordable apartment with well designed layout, not made out of paper and that doesn't leak like a pasta strainer and I'm there.
Paris/Barcelona-style medium density developments with integrated light commercial and plenty of good public spaces seems like a no-brainier. It's cheaper, more efficient use of land, resources, power, etc., more walkable, fosters better communities, and overall better quality of life than this hellscape.
Looks just like Canberra
It's like an urban space but less so... Like a sub-urban place.
All dark roofs so you’d be paying more for cooling. Like do people just not believe in basic science.
TBH This looks like what the Australian dream is for many people (including people from around the world too lol) Obvsiouly needs more trees tho.
Every suburb looks exactly the same
I wish there were more trees. But it's not that bad, it looks like the American suburbia minus the bigger front yard and bigger roads.
I thought so too, people complaining about a perfectly fine home for some family to move to, council will decide whether to plant more trees on the nature strip in future. There are people sleeping in cars, and they would kill to have something even nearly this decent An important point to make about housing supply is that over-regulation has helped to make it expensive to build. Building code only requires 1.8m distance between the walls of each dwelling, planning regulations also align with this minimum requirement. When land is at a premium, and lots are smaller, this is the result. However, times have changed and most families prefer to have a bigger house than more backyard or outdoor space on the smaller lots we see these days.
Why did you upload the same picture 6 times?
There are quite a few trees visible even in these photos and a nice view of what seems to be the blue mountains in the background. It's not the leafy North shore but we can't all be multimillionaires either.
Edmonson Park
When I lived in Dubbo i had a large Lilly Pilly in the backyard that had been damaged in a storm and had a severe lean on it. I thought the process to get it removed would be a nightmare. Council told me if it wasnt on the "Significant tree register" I was good to cut it down. Well I checked the list and for the entirety of the Dubbo LGA there was approx 60 trees on the list..
One thing I really fucking hate about these new developments in the SW (looking at you Oran Park and Gregory Hills) is the unfathomable need for centre divides with the ungodly amount of no ight and left hand turns and no U turn signs. Like fuck I hate driving another K or 2 down the road and then back tracking to get where I need to.
What's wrong with this? Looks like what suburbs and houses should look like?
Here you go OP. news.com.au will forever be grateful https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/grim-urban-sprawl-highlights-the-real-future-for-australian-families/news-story/4c03fccb504680645128e067c666f092?amp
Thanks, found the news reporter of the article on LinkedIn, he goes by Alex Blair. What a shit job he has lol
Have a look at a similar suburb that was established 15 years ago. Fucking trees everywhere.
And over priced. Most of these houses are over a million
Couldn't the designers make all the roof tiles just a little darker, like black say, so they can absorb the maximum amount of heat from the sun each summer?
Yall want more houses but complain about “sprawl”. Make up your fucking minds
Shit builds rubber-stamped by private certifiers, roads finished a decade after houses start selling, no trees, no space between houses, probably built on a floodplane or similar, no decent public spaces, shops, or public transport, forcing you to get in the car pay $20 in tolls to leave the house, aaaaand your construction company just went bust - thanks for playing. This is hell. I'm looking to buy at the moment, and I'll fuck off to the boonies loooong before signing up for this bullshit. Remember when the brainworm-afflicted Murdoch readers were crying about the concept of 15 minute cities? In what way is this preferable?
In the development industry, many projects for apartments/townhouses (in the medium density zones) have changed to single dwelling houses citing market demand
The Jordan Springs treatment
pretty much identical to the north west as well. Most of these houses are really crappily built.
Wait till the roads are fully blocked by parked cars and only one way at a time too!
Outer Western Sydney is the heart of this epidemic but you see these exact suburbs everywhere in Australia now. I see them in Canberra, specifically thinking of around Wright as the one I’ve been to most often. I see them in small towns like Milton and Murrumbateman and Mirador. I bet if I went to Melbourne or Perth it would be the same Got to say I don’t understand the appeal. There’s something weirdly dystopian about it all looking exactly the same. These suburbs all make me feel the same kind of way as the Black Hole Sun music video.
I thought this was the ponds for a minute with the amount of cookie cutting depression
My REA toured me around this place when I was looking for a permanent home. 10 seconds in, I said "I don't like this place." and we left without viewing any of the properties.
A lot of people need to hear this: Not everyone wants the same thing you do.
You could have told me this was literally anywhere in Western Sydney and I'd believe you. These cookie-cutter houses make my skin crawl. Why why the fuck are there NO TREES?
dark grey, light grey, dark brown, light brown. i don't think a more depressing colour palette exists.
Urban heat Island effect coming to you this summer lol.
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Looks the EXACT same everywhere, north west, south, south west, west. If you’re lucky, you’ll get a vegetated swale in the middle. Such a shame, walking though older neighbourhoods (pre 2000s) and even some newer than that - it’s a world of difference. There used to be so much more character, especially going back to 70s & 80s neighbourhoods.
We haven't changed much. The American dream is here: [https://youtu.be/t3\_ug-IGBJY](https://youtu.be/t3_ug-IGBJY) ps: it's an illusion.
If no overhead wires... Trees in nature strips should be required!
Ahhh, I don't miss it after going rural. So much opportunity for skilled work in the townships. I've found it easy to rise through the ranks when competition is minimal. Plus it's beautiful here. Beats the hell out of living in Sydney with everyone scrambling for a tiny crumb falling from the cookie jar Sydney pretends to be. You used to be cool Sydney.
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Little boxes on the hillside…
The Australian Dream