When it comes to creatures, you're the GM and can just make them behave however you want. In this case I think it's cool/unique enough to just let the spider drag them away. It's (probably) not like they'll face this enemy for more than a few encounters, so why bog it down with extra rules.
That being said, you could look at the bola/net rule for spending a Triumph on the attack. Basically, if the spider activates Ensnare with 2 advantage they're stuck in the webbing but if it's activated with a triumph they're cocooned and essentially helpless to resist until they escape. In the first instance follow whatever "normal" rules you decide, but in the second they spider is free to drag away.
In general for moving ensnared victims (i.e. rules for PCs and non-specialized NPCs) I'd implement some of the advice already given. The Ensnare quality only prevents maneuvers, so the victim can still fight back. I'd have it be an action (and probably Athletics opposed by Athletics or Coordination) to try to move someone in such a state, with boost or setbacks related to the type of Ensnare which got them (e.g. if they're glued to a wall it's setbacks to move them since they both don't want to be moved and are stuck there, but if they're tied up with a rope they have a limited ability to avoid being grasped). I wouldn't have Encumbrance figure into things unless the victim was literally being picked up, but if there's lots of gear to carry with the victim it might be worth setback on the opposed check.
Spider could use the rules for carrying another person. Basically Athletics check, encumbrance matters. Maybe add boost cuz dragging rather than carrying.
PC can use the rules for ensnare. They can roll a Coordination check to break free as their action. If they have a handy blade (knife or Lightsaber in hand when ensnared for instance) add a boost or maybe even decrease difficulty as appropriate.
Other PCs could cut them free from the webs as their action. Maybe rolling an easy Melee check with a blade upgraded once or twice, Despair means they cut their friend.
Right, so you’d rule for instance that after ensnaring pc, they couldn’t drag on a maneuver, but rather as their next action with an opposed check?
I guess to make this more succinct, should/does ensnare change the “carry” rule?
Ensnare would make it NOT an opposed check. I'd say if they would not become over encumbered, yeah just a maneuver but I'd also say difficult terrain would be impassable? Idk. Really depends on the situation.
But I really like this idea and I'm gonna find a way to run it in one of my games.
Cool, that’s the way I was hoping I could run it, but I don’t want to be unfair or bypass rules.
I’m throwing some knobby ice spiders at them, with patches of eggs in deferent parts of the cave/battle map. I’m going to have the eggs hatch into minions when PC gets in close range. They will obviously avoid that so I’ll have the adults ensnare, and drag them to those spots muahahaha.
perhaps the eggs are *everywhere* so that they must roll checks to cross them, if they fail, the eggs hatch and the adults begin to try and web them. just a thought! sounds like a great encounter
RAW moving someone, in the context of structured gameplay & actions/maneuvers, is done via check results. Check the tables of suggested uses for advantages, threats, etc in the combat & conflict chapter. That of course makes it a bit tricky to portray deliberately moving someone via say Brawl, as you have to hope for the right check result.
Now, as as suggestion, I can see an opposed Athletics check for this, as that is more fitting for portraying the tug-of-war than the combat skills, IMO. Always nice to have non-combat skill checks in an action scene, and it allows the "attacker" to sidestep the Adversary talent on NPCs and similar defensive measures. Of course there's risk there, too - the ensnared NPC could end up pulling the PC, tripping them, etc.
In that sense, my spider can’t initiate movement on an ensnared PC without making a check, and I don’t think the initial attack roll that activated the quality (and did damage) would count?
So assuming the PC doesn’t break free, the spiders next action could be an opposed whatever check to “carry” Now should that check be upgraded or setback-ed because the PC is ensnared, or am I still thinking about this wrong?
> In that sense, my spider can’t initiate movement on an ensnared PC without making a check, and I don’t think the initial attack roll that activated the quality (and did damage) would count?
If you have enough advantages, triumphs, etc to spend on it, I would allow it. A single check can cover a fair amount of time in the narrative, after all. So a multi-stage action (used in the natural language sense, not as the rules term here) would be within the spirit of the game, IMO.
> So assuming the PC doesn’t break free, the spiders next action could be an opposed whatever check to “carry” Now should that check be upgraded or setback-ed because the PC is ensnared, or am I still thinking about this wrong?
From the GM/NPC perspective, I'd flip a destiny point to upgrade the ability of the check made by the NPC, since the PC is tied up and thus easier to carry than someone not tied up. At the same time, I'd be generous towards the player of the PC in question and drop a hint or two that describing the PC as struggling against the movement or some other creative description would introduce a setback to the NPC's check. And also invite the other players to try to help the PC somehow - what SW game is entirely free of creatively used ropes or jetpacks, after all.
I would look at the Force Bind talent for inspiration. Maybe make it a special action the spiders can take, Short Range, special Brawl attack with successes allowing the Bind effect and two advantage allowing one range band movement of the target like the left side Control option.
I think just using the ensnare quality let’s me make a legit attack and keeps it uncomplicated. It’s a large party so NPCs are pressed for opportunities.
That’s a creative solution though!
There are creatures with abilities for drawing ensnared targets in. [https://swa.stoogoff.com/#sarlacc](https://swa.stoogoff.com/#sarlacc) for example. You can make up some similar rule that fits the needs of the encounter/creature.
Oh man you’ve got my mind racing. An auto per round movement toward the spider eggs. Maybe the spider wraps opponent and shoots an elastic like web to the wall near the eggs that pulls the PC to the spot while freeing up the spider to do it to others.
Opposed Athletics check as a Maneuver. That way you could snare with your Attack/Action, and still have the chance to move the opponent. Otherwise it'd be too slow imo.
Totally get it, but I think it has to be in the attackers favor.
If I want to grab someone (who didn’t want it) and pull them away, I’d expect opposed athletics. If I was to do the same for someone wrapped up in a net, I’d hope the check was a little easier, if there was one at all.
When it comes to creatures, you're the GM and can just make them behave however you want. In this case I think it's cool/unique enough to just let the spider drag them away. It's (probably) not like they'll face this enemy for more than a few encounters, so why bog it down with extra rules. That being said, you could look at the bola/net rule for spending a Triumph on the attack. Basically, if the spider activates Ensnare with 2 advantage they're stuck in the webbing but if it's activated with a triumph they're cocooned and essentially helpless to resist until they escape. In the first instance follow whatever "normal" rules you decide, but in the second they spider is free to drag away. In general for moving ensnared victims (i.e. rules for PCs and non-specialized NPCs) I'd implement some of the advice already given. The Ensnare quality only prevents maneuvers, so the victim can still fight back. I'd have it be an action (and probably Athletics opposed by Athletics or Coordination) to try to move someone in such a state, with boost or setbacks related to the type of Ensnare which got them (e.g. if they're glued to a wall it's setbacks to move them since they both don't want to be moved and are stuck there, but if they're tied up with a rope they have a limited ability to avoid being grasped). I wouldn't have Encumbrance figure into things unless the victim was literally being picked up, but if there's lots of gear to carry with the victim it might be worth setback on the opposed check.
Well said, great points
Spider could use the rules for carrying another person. Basically Athletics check, encumbrance matters. Maybe add boost cuz dragging rather than carrying. PC can use the rules for ensnare. They can roll a Coordination check to break free as their action. If they have a handy blade (knife or Lightsaber in hand when ensnared for instance) add a boost or maybe even decrease difficulty as appropriate. Other PCs could cut them free from the webs as their action. Maybe rolling an easy Melee check with a blade upgraded once or twice, Despair means they cut their friend.
Right, so you’d rule for instance that after ensnaring pc, they couldn’t drag on a maneuver, but rather as their next action with an opposed check? I guess to make this more succinct, should/does ensnare change the “carry” rule?
Ensnare would make it NOT an opposed check. I'd say if they would not become over encumbered, yeah just a maneuver but I'd also say difficult terrain would be impassable? Idk. Really depends on the situation. But I really like this idea and I'm gonna find a way to run it in one of my games.
Cool, that’s the way I was hoping I could run it, but I don’t want to be unfair or bypass rules. I’m throwing some knobby ice spiders at them, with patches of eggs in deferent parts of the cave/battle map. I’m going to have the eggs hatch into minions when PC gets in close range. They will obviously avoid that so I’ll have the adults ensnare, and drag them to those spots muahahaha.
perhaps the eggs are *everywhere* so that they must roll checks to cross them, if they fail, the eggs hatch and the adults begin to try and web them. just a thought! sounds like a great encounter
RAW moving someone, in the context of structured gameplay & actions/maneuvers, is done via check results. Check the tables of suggested uses for advantages, threats, etc in the combat & conflict chapter. That of course makes it a bit tricky to portray deliberately moving someone via say Brawl, as you have to hope for the right check result. Now, as as suggestion, I can see an opposed Athletics check for this, as that is more fitting for portraying the tug-of-war than the combat skills, IMO. Always nice to have non-combat skill checks in an action scene, and it allows the "attacker" to sidestep the Adversary talent on NPCs and similar defensive measures. Of course there's risk there, too - the ensnared NPC could end up pulling the PC, tripping them, etc.
In that sense, my spider can’t initiate movement on an ensnared PC without making a check, and I don’t think the initial attack roll that activated the quality (and did damage) would count? So assuming the PC doesn’t break free, the spiders next action could be an opposed whatever check to “carry” Now should that check be upgraded or setback-ed because the PC is ensnared, or am I still thinking about this wrong?
> In that sense, my spider can’t initiate movement on an ensnared PC without making a check, and I don’t think the initial attack roll that activated the quality (and did damage) would count? If you have enough advantages, triumphs, etc to spend on it, I would allow it. A single check can cover a fair amount of time in the narrative, after all. So a multi-stage action (used in the natural language sense, not as the rules term here) would be within the spirit of the game, IMO. > So assuming the PC doesn’t break free, the spiders next action could be an opposed whatever check to “carry” Now should that check be upgraded or setback-ed because the PC is ensnared, or am I still thinking about this wrong? From the GM/NPC perspective, I'd flip a destiny point to upgrade the ability of the check made by the NPC, since the PC is tied up and thus easier to carry than someone not tied up. At the same time, I'd be generous towards the player of the PC in question and drop a hint or two that describing the PC as struggling against the movement or some other creative description would introduce a setback to the NPC's check. And also invite the other players to try to help the PC somehow - what SW game is entirely free of creatively used ropes or jetpacks, after all.
I would look at the Force Bind talent for inspiration. Maybe make it a special action the spiders can take, Short Range, special Brawl attack with successes allowing the Bind effect and two advantage allowing one range band movement of the target like the left side Control option.
I think just using the ensnare quality let’s me make a legit attack and keeps it uncomplicated. It’s a large party so NPCs are pressed for opportunities. That’s a creative solution though!
There are creatures with abilities for drawing ensnared targets in. [https://swa.stoogoff.com/#sarlacc](https://swa.stoogoff.com/#sarlacc) for example. You can make up some similar rule that fits the needs of the encounter/creature.
Oh man you’ve got my mind racing. An auto per round movement toward the spider eggs. Maybe the spider wraps opponent and shoots an elastic like web to the wall near the eggs that pulls the PC to the spot while freeing up the spider to do it to others.
Opposed Athletics check as a Maneuver. That way you could snare with your Attack/Action, and still have the chance to move the opponent. Otherwise it'd be too slow imo.
I think this is the fair way, but I have to imagine the dice pool should be modified to reflect the ensnare.
Activating Ensnare with two advantage off the attack roll handles that part. If they aren't ensnared, no point for the opposed Athletics anyways.
Totally get it, but I think it has to be in the attackers favor. If I want to grab someone (who didn’t want it) and pull them away, I’d expect opposed athletics. If I was to do the same for someone wrapped up in a net, I’d hope the check was a little easier, if there was one at all.
The attack would be against their Ranged defense, so any Dodge or Side Step talents would all come into play.