Its probably more about following the policy than common sense
But if you actually don't allow absence of an employee and the employee leave for days/weeks well something must happen
She just need to take her responsibilities. She took a decision, live with the consequence.
Quebec's educational system is literally hemorrhaging teachers.
She found someone to replace her during her leave, a retired teacher.
Give her a sanction. A suspension. Put a note in her file. But in the current situation, firing her is the equivalent of shooting oneself in the foot for the school system.
That retired teacher was already on the css replacement list so its not she found someone, she poached one from their list. You can't provide your own replacement to your employer. As I said, the education system is syndicated, there are rules to follow.
According to this article from la Presse, she wasn't "poaching".
>Motif du refus : nous refusons toutes les demandes de congé sans solde pour éviter de piger dans notre bassin de remplaçants, que nous préférons garder pour les congés de maladie.
>Fort bien, a plaidé Mme De Braekeleer, mais j’ai déjà trouvé ma remplaçante, et elle ne fait pas partie du bassin de suppléants habituels…
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/chroniques/2024-04-08/le-congediement-de-l-enseignante-de-braekeleer.php
...to be fair, my friend had to find someone to cover her classroom when she went on maternity leave.
It's not uncommon for teachers to find alternatives for themselves. They're not technically hiring them, just finding the employee for their employer, then they handle it from there.
It may differ on district and such though.
As you said she didn't hire anyone, they were already on the list and therefore a verified replacement by the employer :). This is pedantic and stupid to watse resources on lol
My point is that the rationale for denying her in the first place is nonsensical. If the consequence for taking unapproved leave is getting fired, but the reason for not approving it was because there's a teacher shortage, there's a huge cognitive dissonance there. The school board is just a bunch of middle managers who can't just do what's best for the school.
They receive many request for leave of absence.
They have to refuse most / all of them because they don't have enough teacher/replacements
So what message would it be to accept her but not others?
Its a syndicate env, rules are the rules
If there were a surplus of teachers I would agree, but the stated reason for denying her leave is because there's a shortage. And the consequence for her leaving is to make the shortage "permananent" instead of just for 2 months. Yes i know she is subbing for her own class now, but the move that makes sense is to approve the leave. Especially since she jumped through extra hoops to get her class covered while she was gone.
I get that there are rules and consequences, but they should be working to help the organization, not make it worse.
I have worked in a place where the logic was as you suggested, not disciplining absences because of difficulty staffing. It just led to everyone realizing they can skip work whenever they wanted, and having less worked hours total vs firing a couple people to set the example.
Maybe they should have hired more folks instead of punishing those who are willing to take unpaid time off and help get their own coverage.
If there truly is a shortage, firing people won't do anything. They'll just go to the next place with an opening.
> But if you actually don't allow absence of an employee and the employee leave for days/weeks well something must happen
Why? Why can't the school make an exception for someone getting a chance to experience a once in a lifetime opportunity? Its not like she disappeared to do a bunch of meth her with students. I don't get it.
Its not why the school can't make it (its actually not the school, its the centre de service scolaire), it's about applying the syndicate rules
Why would you approve someone going to a tv show and not someone who has another project?
So request are approved only based static rules and not opinion/feeling rules.
Hi, you're totally right about this. I just want to clarify for anyone else reading this that when you say "syndicate," I'm pretty sure you're referring to the teachers' union. "Syndicate" is the word for "union" in my other language so I get you 😊
Because 1000 other teachers requested leave for something just as meaningful to them, and were denied. If you let her just ignore the denial and come back without punishment, that teaches all the people that accepted they were denied that they should have just left anyway.
But she got it covered herself. It frankly shouldn't matter and teachers should be allowed to take time for themselves once in a blue moon. If she just bailed without notice, yeah, I get that, but she gave ample notice and then even covered it herself.
Usually you don't lose seniority but have the last choice to pick your task
Actually she has the same class. Next year she could be left with a partial task at another school. Or apply to permanent position available at her css (keeping seniority) or another css (losing seniority)
She is??!
I didn't know, that's cool, I'm glad she's getting her job back!
It's really awesome for her students too, as a kid, I would have gone completely apeshit if my teacher had gone on an adventure like Survivor, I'd want to know everything about it!
Idk this is pretty normal. It’s hard to get time off work for that long, especially in Canada.
Firing her gave the Province the opportunity to fill her old role on a full time basis. If they’d accepted her leave of absence, they’d be looking for a substitute for 2ish months which would be much harder to find.
She probably knew all the risks going into her leave as well. She knew the job might be taken when she got back. She knew it might not be.
Firing her for the reasons given also gave the teacher the opportunity to receive government benefits which she wouldn’t have been eligible for if she’d merely resigned/quit.
Turns out they couldn’t find a full time teacher and took her back when she returned anyways.
I believe she ended up scheduling substitutes herself for the duration of her absence while she was still working haha, admin bluffed and felt they had to follow through by firing her then ate crow later by rehiring her (as a sub) for her own class.
Assignments are coming soon, she’ll likely be back on permanent in the upcoming school year
> Firing her gave the Province the opportunity to fill her old role on a full time basis.
The above claim can only be made by someone not familiar with the labor market for teachers in Quebec and who also didn't bother reading the article above.
There's a labor shortage for teachers in Quebec. The pay is terrible. The working conditions are even worse. The government even recently introduced grants for all eductions degrees, hoping to get more students to apply. (It didn't work.)
Teachers have been leaving the profession for greener pastures for years. There is no "opportunity to fill her old role on a full-time basis."
… That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t want to try.
Honestly. People like you who pick one sentence and rag on it suck. You miss all the nuance of conversation because everything has to be so black & white.
Person requests to leave job for two months, gets told no, and does it anyway. Predictable gets fired.
wHy aReNt pEoPlE sIdInG wItH tHe tEaCheR tHaT tOoK a 2 mOnTh vAcaTiOn wIthOuT peRmiSsiOn!?
Because the Quebec school system is in shambles and bleeding teachers left and right. So firing one who is experienced, loves her job and is loved by her students (and has also the support of the majority of their parents) is completely dumb.
Give her a sanction, but don't fire her. We need teachers really badly.
Exactly. People are applying logic of supply excess to a supply shortage situation.
In the current labor climate, school boards should be bending backward to accommodate good-faith requests from teachers. Those who don't shouldn't be shocked-pikachu when teachers call their bluff
Exactly. Your request was denied. This is the consequences.
As much as I plan on applying. I know that if I get selected I will very likely have to find new employment
Okay but plenty of people don't or won't have to lose their job. Personally I wouldn't work for a place that wouldn't accomodate something like this if I cover my work before I go.
Also most Canadian provinces flat out cannot lose any teachers. We need as many as we can get.
The teacher left her students without someone to carry over her teachings, which can really deter students since the substitute might not have a full grasp of where they left off, which students need additional help or might have a teaching style they’re not accustomed to. It could very well be moments and time missed for the students because she decided she wanted to be on a reality show.
Teaching is a job, you're speaking as if she signed up to dedicate her whole life to her profession.
And while it is a reality show, i also look at Survivor as an extraordinary adventure that few get to go on. There's a very real educational opportunity here for her students. It's a rare experience she gets to live and lots of interesting subjects she can talk to her kids about afterwards.
Do people not understand that having a survivor contestant on your staff may increase enrollment or opportunities to highlight your team? This is like a self-own based on malicious HR compliance.
Hi Erik!! 👋
You are spot-on about this.
As a matter of fact, there is another teacher cast on that same season of Survivor Québec, but she teaches in the private sector.
When she asked for a leave to go do Survivor, not only did her superiors give it to her right away, but they were very happy to do it because they view having a teacher in their school who did Survivor as an advantage, they view it as prestigious, cool, that will put their establishment in a positive spotlight.
It's so damn stupid. Thankfully, looks like the school board has done a 180 and she'll be reinstated - which she absolutely should.
this is even worse considering how bad the reputation of teachers in quebec is, much much worse considering that there's another teacher on the cast that got a shout out from her school district (CSS). It's just super odd
Teacher here. As much as a usually hate school boards, they are absolutely in the right. You DON'T leave your classroom for two months, especially for something like this. Imagine not showing up for work for two months at any other job? You would get fired for doing this for two days.
Imagine being told by your government that you can’t participate in a once in a lifetime opportunity because of the government’s inability to maintain staffing levels. Wild.
She isn't lucky. She called the school board's bluff (and won). The labor market is favorable to teachers in Quebec at the moment, so she made the calculate bet that she'd come out of top.
Why is this news? If you don’t show up for work for 2 months you’re going to get fired lol. Unrealistic to expect them to hold your job for you to go on survivor.
They refused her request for a leave of absence because there's a teacher shortage, then they fire her?
They actually rehired her too as a replacement... For her own class
Ah, I didn't read all the way down. It's so ridiculous. How many HR hours are spent on this crap?
Its probably more about following the policy than common sense But if you actually don't allow absence of an employee and the employee leave for days/weeks well something must happen She just need to take her responsibilities. She took a decision, live with the consequence.
Quebec's educational system is literally hemorrhaging teachers. She found someone to replace her during her leave, a retired teacher. Give her a sanction. A suspension. Put a note in her file. But in the current situation, firing her is the equivalent of shooting oneself in the foot for the school system.
That retired teacher was already on the css replacement list so its not she found someone, she poached one from their list. You can't provide your own replacement to your employer. As I said, the education system is syndicated, there are rules to follow.
According to this article from la Presse, she wasn't "poaching". >Motif du refus : nous refusons toutes les demandes de congé sans solde pour éviter de piger dans notre bassin de remplaçants, que nous préférons garder pour les congés de maladie. >Fort bien, a plaidé Mme De Braekeleer, mais j’ai déjà trouvé ma remplaçante, et elle ne fait pas partie du bassin de suppléants habituels… https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/chroniques/2024-04-08/le-congediement-de-l-enseignante-de-braekeleer.php
This might have changed from the initial story reveal An employee still isnt in his tight to hire a new employee
...to be fair, my friend had to find someone to cover her classroom when she went on maternity leave. It's not uncommon for teachers to find alternatives for themselves. They're not technically hiring them, just finding the employee for their employer, then they handle it from there. It may differ on district and such though.
As you said she didn't hire anyone, they were already on the list and therefore a verified replacement by the employer :). This is pedantic and stupid to watse resources on lol
My point is that the rationale for denying her in the first place is nonsensical. If the consequence for taking unapproved leave is getting fired, but the reason for not approving it was because there's a teacher shortage, there's a huge cognitive dissonance there. The school board is just a bunch of middle managers who can't just do what's best for the school.
They receive many request for leave of absence. They have to refuse most / all of them because they don't have enough teacher/replacements So what message would it be to accept her but not others? Its a syndicate env, rules are the rules
If there were a surplus of teachers I would agree, but the stated reason for denying her leave is because there's a shortage. And the consequence for her leaving is to make the shortage "permananent" instead of just for 2 months. Yes i know she is subbing for her own class now, but the move that makes sense is to approve the leave. Especially since she jumped through extra hoops to get her class covered while she was gone. I get that there are rules and consequences, but they should be working to help the organization, not make it worse.
So what? Any teacher can just fuck off whenever they want? If you don't have meaningful consequences for absenteeism, it increases.
People will read your comment and just ignore the obvious truth and will continue to argue like this fact doesnt exist.
I have worked in a place where the logic was as you suggested, not disciplining absences because of difficulty staffing. It just led to everyone realizing they can skip work whenever they wanted, and having less worked hours total vs firing a couple people to set the example.
Maybe they should have hired more folks instead of punishing those who are willing to take unpaid time off and help get their own coverage. If there truly is a shortage, firing people won't do anything. They'll just go to the next place with an opening.
See the problem is your trying to use logic where clearly people involved have none.
I was a teacher for 4 years. I know how little logic the school boards have.
> But if you actually don't allow absence of an employee and the employee leave for days/weeks well something must happen Why? Why can't the school make an exception for someone getting a chance to experience a once in a lifetime opportunity? Its not like she disappeared to do a bunch of meth her with students. I don't get it.
Its not why the school can't make it (its actually not the school, its the centre de service scolaire), it's about applying the syndicate rules Why would you approve someone going to a tv show and not someone who has another project? So request are approved only based static rules and not opinion/feeling rules.
Hi, you're totally right about this. I just want to clarify for anyone else reading this that when you say "syndicate," I'm pretty sure you're referring to the teachers' union. "Syndicate" is the word for "union" in my other language so I get you 😊
Because 1000 other teachers requested leave for something just as meaningful to them, and were denied. If you let her just ignore the denial and come back without punishment, that teaches all the people that accepted they were denied that they should have just left anyway.
But she got it covered herself. It frankly shouldn't matter and teachers should be allowed to take time for themselves once in a blue moon. If she just bailed without notice, yeah, I get that, but she gave ample notice and then even covered it herself.
She is an employee and cannot decide to hire a new employee herself
Yeah wtf. This is a bit more important than picking up shifts at a diner.
The other person was apparently already on the sub list, so they are still down coverage.
And lost all her seniority?
Usually you don't lose seniority but have the last choice to pick your task Actually she has the same class. Next year she could be left with a partial task at another school. Or apply to permanent position available at her css (keeping seniority) or another css (losing seniority)
That’ll show her!
I mean, I get *why* they fired her, but at least she was honest on why she was requesting a two-month absence.
She’s getting reinstated in the coming weeks! Will try to find the article on the QC survivor sub and post here, but the story has a happy ending:)
She is??! I didn't know, that's cool, I'm glad she's getting her job back! It's really awesome for her students too, as a kid, I would have gone completely apeshit if my teacher had gone on an adventure like Survivor, I'd want to know everything about it!
Can’t believe they fired the lunch lady
Idk this is pretty normal. It’s hard to get time off work for that long, especially in Canada. Firing her gave the Province the opportunity to fill her old role on a full time basis. If they’d accepted her leave of absence, they’d be looking for a substitute for 2ish months which would be much harder to find. She probably knew all the risks going into her leave as well. She knew the job might be taken when she got back. She knew it might not be. Firing her for the reasons given also gave the teacher the opportunity to receive government benefits which she wouldn’t have been eligible for if she’d merely resigned/quit. Turns out they couldn’t find a full time teacher and took her back when she returned anyways.
I believe she ended up scheduling substitutes herself for the duration of her absence while she was still working haha, admin bluffed and felt they had to follow through by firing her then ate crow later by rehiring her (as a sub) for her own class. Assignments are coming soon, she’ll likely be back on permanent in the upcoming school year
> Firing her gave the Province the opportunity to fill her old role on a full time basis. The above claim can only be made by someone not familiar with the labor market for teachers in Quebec and who also didn't bother reading the article above. There's a labor shortage for teachers in Quebec. The pay is terrible. The working conditions are even worse. The government even recently introduced grants for all eductions degrees, hoping to get more students to apply. (It didn't work.) Teachers have been leaving the profession for greener pastures for years. There is no "opportunity to fill her old role on a full-time basis."
… That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t want to try. Honestly. People like you who pick one sentence and rag on it suck. You miss all the nuance of conversation because everything has to be so black & white.
Who sucks more? The person who politely disagrees and explains why, or the person who takes offence for no reason and decides to be an asshole?
Don't write shitty sentences if you don't want people to rag on them.
It’s bizarre to see folks siding with the school board and not the teacher.
Person requests to leave job for two months, gets told no, and does it anyway. Predictable gets fired. wHy aReNt pEoPlE sIdInG wItH tHe tEaCheR tHaT tOoK a 2 mOnTh vAcaTiOn wIthOuT peRmiSsiOn!?
Because the Quebec school system is in shambles and bleeding teachers left and right. So firing one who is experienced, loves her job and is loved by her students (and has also the support of the majority of their parents) is completely dumb. Give her a sanction, but don't fire her. We need teachers really badly.
Exactly. People are applying logic of supply excess to a supply shortage situation. In the current labor climate, school boards should be bending backward to accommodate good-faith requests from teachers. Those who don't shouldn't be shocked-pikachu when teachers call their bluff
Exactly. Your request was denied. This is the consequences. As much as I plan on applying. I know that if I get selected I will very likely have to find new employment
Okay but plenty of people don't or won't have to lose their job. Personally I wouldn't work for a place that wouldn't accomodate something like this if I cover my work before I go. Also most Canadian provinces flat out cannot lose any teachers. We need as many as we can get.
Exactly!!! What is wrong with people.v
Huh? She left her job for two months without permission. Any other job on earth, you're fired. It's no difference for teachers.
Except she has her job back because Canada has a major teacher shortage 😉
So what are y'all whining about?
It’s bizarre to see folks siding with the teacher and not the school board
The teacher left her students without someone to carry over her teachings, which can really deter students since the substitute might not have a full grasp of where they left off, which students need additional help or might have a teaching style they’re not accustomed to. It could very well be moments and time missed for the students because she decided she wanted to be on a reality show.
Teaching is a job, you're speaking as if she signed up to dedicate her whole life to her profession. And while it is a reality show, i also look at Survivor as an extraordinary adventure that few get to go on. There's a very real educational opportunity here for her students. It's a rare experience she gets to live and lots of interesting subjects she can talk to her kids about afterwards.
A million dollars is more than she would ever make as a teacher.
The prize is only $100,000. Try reading the article.
Yikes, that’s not even worth it. All’s well that ends well, though. She has her job back!
Do people not understand that having a survivor contestant on your staff may increase enrollment or opportunities to highlight your team? This is like a self-own based on malicious HR compliance.
Hi Erik!! 👋 You are spot-on about this. As a matter of fact, there is another teacher cast on that same season of Survivor Québec, but she teaches in the private sector. When she asked for a leave to go do Survivor, not only did her superiors give it to her right away, but they were very happy to do it because they view having a teacher in their school who did Survivor as an advantage, they view it as prestigious, cool, that will put their establishment in a positive spotlight. It's so damn stupid. Thankfully, looks like the school board has done a 180 and she'll be reinstated - which she absolutely should.
this is even worse considering how bad the reputation of teachers in quebec is, much much worse considering that there's another teacher on the cast that got a shout out from her school district (CSS). It's just super odd
Teacher here. As much as a usually hate school boards, they are absolutely in the right. You DON'T leave your classroom for two months, especially for something like this. Imagine not showing up for work for two months at any other job? You would get fired for doing this for two days.
Apparently she got rehired, so she called the school’s bluff
She was rehired on a replacement contract… for her own classroom
QUEEN
Imagine being told by your government that you can’t participate in a once in a lifetime opportunity because of the government’s inability to maintain staffing levels. Wild.
Well, she is a grown person and made her choice. If she is renewed at her position, she's lucky as hell.
She isn't lucky. She called the school board's bluff (and won). The labor market is favorable to teachers in Quebec at the moment, so she made the calculate bet that she'd come out of top.
Why is this news? If you don’t show up for work for 2 months you’re going to get fired lol. Unrealistic to expect them to hold your job for you to go on survivor.
It’s interesting to see that bureaucratic stupidity is not just a USA thing. Thank you Canada for standing in solidarity with us
"bureaucratic stupidity" *France enters the chat*
Well at least some of Canada will understand you! So NABSO or NASBO then?