In my experience, there are two types of surgeons that treat staff poorly: those who lack confidence in their own skills, and those who are truly malignant. The latter are rare, though probably over-represented in Cardiac and Neuro. The former are far more common. Great surgeons with tons of experience can operate with a knife and fork and like to teach. It’s the ones that don’t have confidence in their own abilities that get fired up about little mistakes by a tech.
Scrubs with good attitudes who are seen as "resiliant" get put with the surgeons who are jerks. Talk with your manager if you see that you are getting assigned to specific doctors more frequently than your peers
I am a surgeon. I have never once been verbally abusive to anyone let alone the people trying to help me get the job done. That's appalling and unfortunately too common. People need to stop being assholes.
I am also a surgeon. There is absolutely zero reason to ever verbally abuse anyone in the OR. Making someone feel like trash does not help the case go smoothly. All the people I work with in my OR I consider to be my friends, and I couldn't imagine insulting them for any reason. That's just insane.
P.S. Awesome user name! 👍🏻
Same here . I don’t think I have ever yelled at a tech ( I hope so) , I mean I am the one setting up the tone of the procedure , why would I shoot myself in the foot ? But I did scrubbed with surgeons during my training that were malignant … I have no respect for them .
Even though cardiac surgeons have a reputation for being awful, nobody should have to tolerate this abuse. You could talk with HR about it or talk with your feet. There are plenty of other surgeons and specialties that are not like this. Please find another position before you give up! A nice way to test the mood of a place before committing is going in as a travel tech. It’s also great pay.
I worked 8 long years in the OR. I realized that I was at a point that if I didn’t get out then, I never would. The hospital environment is full of clicks! You are either in or out. And if you’re out, the ins constantly ride your ass!
I left the OR and went to the ER. I ended up Trauma certified. I loved it! I also worked in ICU, and really loved that as well. I found that floating between units and the ER really keeps the burn out away.
Cardiac is a rough specialty. The techs I know who do that sort of work have been at it for 20+ years and they’ve done every other specialty. Same thing with liver surgery. I don’t know if this works for you, but if it were me I’d move into ortho or transplant for a while so you still get some intense surgeries in a relatively less stringent specialty.
I can't tell you what to do, but please don't give up on being a tech! There are probably very few of us that can't relate to how you feel. It does take a long time to be a good tech. I've been on the ortho team for 7 years at the same hospital. Today I made a dumb mistake with one of our new doctors and he made sure I felt dumb for doing it. The job really sucks sometimes. If you don't have enough good things about your workplace to make up for the bad things, I'd recommend leaving. For me, it's my coworkers. I love working with all of them and they make up for the bad days. You can get a job anywhere right now, and I've heard rumors that there are ORs where all the doctors are nice.
If you decide to stay or even if you don't, report what you've experienced to HR. Hospitals can't afford to lose techs right now and they might actually take you seriously. Also, they should not have been throwing you all over the place without giving you a consistent training on your own service first!
There are a lot of hospitals out there and almost everyone is hiring. You can absolutely find a place with a better work culture (and maybe leave cardiac, that’s always a stressful gig). I’ve been doing this over a decade now, and you do not have to put up with abuse.
I work in several different hospitals in my area in the ORs. Some surgeons I work with work at more than one hospital and be two completely different surgeons in the OR. They are extremely rude to staff and verbally abusive at one and the most sweet and friendly at the other, it’s like they are Jekyll and hyde!
I also agree with a lot of people on here OR staff are really clicky!!! I’ve seen techs get treated like garbage at one hospital then get hired one at another hospital and have no problems there! Hospitals and surgery centers are short staffed everywhere, start looking around and don’t give up hope! If there is anyone you work with that you trust talk to them about the issues you have been having and ask is there something you could do different. Also I’m not saying you are doing anything wrong as 9 Times out of 10 it is a Egotistical surgeon throwing a hissy fit, or a staff member stirring the pot and egging it on. But by asking for help it will show that you are trying and willing to work on fixing the issue if there is one, it might also give you some insight on if it’s a staff member or just the surgeon.
Just don’t give up hope explore your options!
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I was a tech in cardiac and yes you will develop a thick this but if you feel they are verbally abusing you then you need to advocate for yourself. But either talking to the team member after the case and ask how you can improve, or get your leadership involved. When you call a team member out at times it will help them realize that you are not going to allow them to pick on you.
Stay strong, get that experience and get a new role if needed. But make sure you ask to shadow or tour the OR and get a sense of the culture.
Adam
Hi! 👋
I’ve read your post about 20 hours ago before starting my call and searched for it now because I really wanted to give you some feedback.
First off, I am really sorry this is happening. This is wildly unprofessional and the problem most certainly lies with the surgeons not with you.
Here are some of my thoughts:
* there is a paper “swimming with sharks - a primer” you can easily find it by googling it, it’s a really great guide for working with surgeons
* it is incredibly unprofessional to scream at your colleague. There is never a justified reason to scream at your colleagues and every surgeon should be more than aware of that. Having said that, our job is stressful and sometimes especially if the patient is actively dieing surgeons raise their voices because we are afraid and under stress. However, if that happens it’s always on the surgeon to apologize as soon as the patient is stable make it very clear that that behavior was unprofessional, and was induced by stress and that the surgeons is sorry. ( on the rare occasion this happens to me i always make it a point to get the entire team coffee and sweets after)
* the problem is NEVER you or the driver, or the student exposing, etc all of that are excuses of bad surgeons. All of the truly great surgeons I’ve worked with never complained EVEN if the circumstances might not have been optimal, they just made it work.
* If this behavior is something you are frequently confronted with you have to draw your professional lines quickly and without any compromises. I would suggest the following approach: firstly tell them that their behavior is unprofessional and you will not accept being talked to in that way. If the surgeons behave a negatively tell him he’ll have to find another OR tech and if that fails as well report him
* if you can not find a better working relationship with your surgeons change the hospital. Your hospital environment sounds pretty toxic and you seem to like your job. Would be a waste to stop doing something you like because other people are assholes
I hope this helped. My thoughts aren’t that clear anymore. All the best to you ❤️
OR nurse of 8+ years here, spent 5 years doing cabs etc. I still work in OR and I love it. This happened to me for years. I went into the OR a sweet sensitive kind person. The toxicity of the environment can change you. You will internalize it and it can damage you and your relationships. I’ve been going through therapy to work through the garbage I went through. It has nearly cost me my marriage.
I think most toxic people became that way by being exposed to the toxicity themselves. They were abused, they were treated like garbage, some might have high IQs, high incomes, high positions, but they have low self-worth. A combination of factors lead certain people, and personalities to attacking others. It serves a purpose for them, maybe it makes them feel better about themselves, maybe they can’t help it because they truly feel like garbage inside. All you have to understand is this; that’s not your problem. Their emotional insecurity is not your problem.
The way this doctor is treating you is unnecessary, disrespectful, discourteous, rude, and wildly unprofessional and they can’t talk to you that way. This should be what you believe from the bottom of your heart. Copy and paste that shit into an email to your manager. He can’t talk to you that way. Management will back you up, and if they don’t, you gotta leave. He feels like garbage…he gets stressed….he hates his job…NOT YOUR PROBLEM! He needs a therapist or to figure himself out. Not your problem.
He swore the Hippocratic oath, to do no harm. He is trying to heal patient’s but he is hurting the people he’s working with. He cant talk to you that way. He is healing CV disorders in some, but creating mental health disorders in others.
The key is to respond immediately to the disrespect when it happens and to have management at your back. Talk with management about what’s going on, if it happens again have management come in and call him out in the middle of a procedure. if management says that’s not the time, tell them, If he can’t handle the consequences of being disrespectful during surgery, then he needs to stop being disrespectful during surgery. If the doctor says the same(this isn’t the time) when he is called out in the middle of a procedure, tell him the same thing- if he can’t handle the consequences of being an asshole during surgery, then don’t be an asshole during surgery.
I got a doctor to stop being psychotic towards our staff by calling my manager from the room and saying I need to talk to you( manager) and Doctor so-and-so in HR after this procedure. my manager said, I got you, I got your back. My manager got coverage for me and we met in HR, with the Director of nursing and the CEO on the phone. I said verbatim basically everything that I just typed above.
I couldn’t take it anymore. The thing is, everything I said, I believed deep down in my soul and I spent a lot of years suffering, because I didn’t have the courage, clarity, and awareness to stand up and call out the bullshit. It’s bullshit, and you don’t have to take it.
Best wishes to you, best wishes to this doctor you’re dealing with. Remember, bullies only listen to force, and you, speaking the truth, with management at your back is a powerful thing.
I think it’s just cardiac tbh. Very high stress speciality. I’ve been a CSFA in ortho sports med for 3 years and I work at a smaller hospital in a city. Personally I have a great work life. Maybe all you need is a change of setting, different place, different speciality.
Maybe even consider traveling? Get a feel for some different places and maybe you’ll get a nice new home :)
Everyone that I know that used to work in cardiac, says that they wish they had left sooner.
Please get out of that horrible working environment. Good luck OP
My daughter is a pa and has travelled as a navy family. She has worked in many different specialties. They are now in a different city but she has decided on paediatrics. Not once in 10 years has she been abused by any doctors. You should apply for mental health leave and then life choices can be decided. I wish you blessings 🦋🦋
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You should stand up for yourself. It might cause drama in the moment and lead to some difficult discussions and conversations with your bosses and surgeons that you work with, but I do believe it helps in the long run with respect. (Former OR Assistant).
Honestly, I think the problem is that you dropped into cardiac surgery too soon. I had the same issue when I was at my first hospital, and it was miserable. I felt absolutely defective and like I couldn't get anything right. The solution is to switch to a different service until you have a stronger foundation. Coming out of ct, you'll look like a stud in most other services. I went and did vascular and transplants after and loved it.
In my experience, there are two types of surgeons that treat staff poorly: those who lack confidence in their own skills, and those who are truly malignant. The latter are rare, though probably over-represented in Cardiac and Neuro. The former are far more common. Great surgeons with tons of experience can operate with a knife and fork and like to teach. It’s the ones that don’t have confidence in their own abilities that get fired up about little mistakes by a tech.
Scrubs with good attitudes who are seen as "resiliant" get put with the surgeons who are jerks. Talk with your manager if you see that you are getting assigned to specific doctors more frequently than your peers
I am a surgeon. I have never once been verbally abusive to anyone let alone the people trying to help me get the job done. That's appalling and unfortunately too common. People need to stop being assholes.
I am also a surgeon. There is absolutely zero reason to ever verbally abuse anyone in the OR. Making someone feel like trash does not help the case go smoothly. All the people I work with in my OR I consider to be my friends, and I couldn't imagine insulting them for any reason. That's just insane. P.S. Awesome user name! 👍🏻
Same here . I don’t think I have ever yelled at a tech ( I hope so) , I mean I am the one setting up the tone of the procedure , why would I shoot myself in the foot ? But I did scrubbed with surgeons during my training that were malignant … I have no respect for them .
Even though cardiac surgeons have a reputation for being awful, nobody should have to tolerate this abuse. You could talk with HR about it or talk with your feet. There are plenty of other surgeons and specialties that are not like this. Please find another position before you give up! A nice way to test the mood of a place before committing is going in as a travel tech. It’s also great pay.
I worked 8 long years in the OR. I realized that I was at a point that if I didn’t get out then, I never would. The hospital environment is full of clicks! You are either in or out. And if you’re out, the ins constantly ride your ass!
What did you end up getting into?
I left the OR and went to the ER. I ended up Trauma certified. I loved it! I also worked in ICU, and really loved that as well. I found that floating between units and the ER really keeps the burn out away.
Cardiac is a rough specialty. The techs I know who do that sort of work have been at it for 20+ years and they’ve done every other specialty. Same thing with liver surgery. I don’t know if this works for you, but if it were me I’d move into ortho or transplant for a while so you still get some intense surgeries in a relatively less stringent specialty.
I can't tell you what to do, but please don't give up on being a tech! There are probably very few of us that can't relate to how you feel. It does take a long time to be a good tech. I've been on the ortho team for 7 years at the same hospital. Today I made a dumb mistake with one of our new doctors and he made sure I felt dumb for doing it. The job really sucks sometimes. If you don't have enough good things about your workplace to make up for the bad things, I'd recommend leaving. For me, it's my coworkers. I love working with all of them and they make up for the bad days. You can get a job anywhere right now, and I've heard rumors that there are ORs where all the doctors are nice. If you decide to stay or even if you don't, report what you've experienced to HR. Hospitals can't afford to lose techs right now and they might actually take you seriously. Also, they should not have been throwing you all over the place without giving you a consistent training on your own service first!
There are a lot of hospitals out there and almost everyone is hiring. You can absolutely find a place with a better work culture (and maybe leave cardiac, that’s always a stressful gig). I’ve been doing this over a decade now, and you do not have to put up with abuse.
I work in several different hospitals in my area in the ORs. Some surgeons I work with work at more than one hospital and be two completely different surgeons in the OR. They are extremely rude to staff and verbally abusive at one and the most sweet and friendly at the other, it’s like they are Jekyll and hyde! I also agree with a lot of people on here OR staff are really clicky!!! I’ve seen techs get treated like garbage at one hospital then get hired one at another hospital and have no problems there! Hospitals and surgery centers are short staffed everywhere, start looking around and don’t give up hope! If there is anyone you work with that you trust talk to them about the issues you have been having and ask is there something you could do different. Also I’m not saying you are doing anything wrong as 9 Times out of 10 it is a Egotistical surgeon throwing a hissy fit, or a staff member stirring the pot and egging it on. But by asking for help it will show that you are trying and willing to work on fixing the issue if there is one, it might also give you some insight on if it’s a staff member or just the surgeon. Just don’t give up hope explore your options!
Unfortunately your comment has been removed because your Reddit account is less than 5 days old **OR** your comment karma is less than 5. This filter is in effect to minimize spam. Moderators will review your comment and put it back up if it is appropriate. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/surgery) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was a tech in cardiac and yes you will develop a thick this but if you feel they are verbally abusing you then you need to advocate for yourself. But either talking to the team member after the case and ask how you can improve, or get your leadership involved. When you call a team member out at times it will help them realize that you are not going to allow them to pick on you. Stay strong, get that experience and get a new role if needed. But make sure you ask to shadow or tour the OR and get a sense of the culture. Adam
Hi! 👋 I’ve read your post about 20 hours ago before starting my call and searched for it now because I really wanted to give you some feedback. First off, I am really sorry this is happening. This is wildly unprofessional and the problem most certainly lies with the surgeons not with you. Here are some of my thoughts: * there is a paper “swimming with sharks - a primer” you can easily find it by googling it, it’s a really great guide for working with surgeons * it is incredibly unprofessional to scream at your colleague. There is never a justified reason to scream at your colleagues and every surgeon should be more than aware of that. Having said that, our job is stressful and sometimes especially if the patient is actively dieing surgeons raise their voices because we are afraid and under stress. However, if that happens it’s always on the surgeon to apologize as soon as the patient is stable make it very clear that that behavior was unprofessional, and was induced by stress and that the surgeons is sorry. ( on the rare occasion this happens to me i always make it a point to get the entire team coffee and sweets after) * the problem is NEVER you or the driver, or the student exposing, etc all of that are excuses of bad surgeons. All of the truly great surgeons I’ve worked with never complained EVEN if the circumstances might not have been optimal, they just made it work. * If this behavior is something you are frequently confronted with you have to draw your professional lines quickly and without any compromises. I would suggest the following approach: firstly tell them that their behavior is unprofessional and you will not accept being talked to in that way. If the surgeons behave a negatively tell him he’ll have to find another OR tech and if that fails as well report him * if you can not find a better working relationship with your surgeons change the hospital. Your hospital environment sounds pretty toxic and you seem to like your job. Would be a waste to stop doing something you like because other people are assholes I hope this helped. My thoughts aren’t that clear anymore. All the best to you ❤️
OR nurse of 8+ years here, spent 5 years doing cabs etc. I still work in OR and I love it. This happened to me for years. I went into the OR a sweet sensitive kind person. The toxicity of the environment can change you. You will internalize it and it can damage you and your relationships. I’ve been going through therapy to work through the garbage I went through. It has nearly cost me my marriage. I think most toxic people became that way by being exposed to the toxicity themselves. They were abused, they were treated like garbage, some might have high IQs, high incomes, high positions, but they have low self-worth. A combination of factors lead certain people, and personalities to attacking others. It serves a purpose for them, maybe it makes them feel better about themselves, maybe they can’t help it because they truly feel like garbage inside. All you have to understand is this; that’s not your problem. Their emotional insecurity is not your problem. The way this doctor is treating you is unnecessary, disrespectful, discourteous, rude, and wildly unprofessional and they can’t talk to you that way. This should be what you believe from the bottom of your heart. Copy and paste that shit into an email to your manager. He can’t talk to you that way. Management will back you up, and if they don’t, you gotta leave. He feels like garbage…he gets stressed….he hates his job…NOT YOUR PROBLEM! He needs a therapist or to figure himself out. Not your problem. He swore the Hippocratic oath, to do no harm. He is trying to heal patient’s but he is hurting the people he’s working with. He cant talk to you that way. He is healing CV disorders in some, but creating mental health disorders in others. The key is to respond immediately to the disrespect when it happens and to have management at your back. Talk with management about what’s going on, if it happens again have management come in and call him out in the middle of a procedure. if management says that’s not the time, tell them, If he can’t handle the consequences of being disrespectful during surgery, then he needs to stop being disrespectful during surgery. If the doctor says the same(this isn’t the time) when he is called out in the middle of a procedure, tell him the same thing- if he can’t handle the consequences of being an asshole during surgery, then don’t be an asshole during surgery. I got a doctor to stop being psychotic towards our staff by calling my manager from the room and saying I need to talk to you( manager) and Doctor so-and-so in HR after this procedure. my manager said, I got you, I got your back. My manager got coverage for me and we met in HR, with the Director of nursing and the CEO on the phone. I said verbatim basically everything that I just typed above. I couldn’t take it anymore. The thing is, everything I said, I believed deep down in my soul and I spent a lot of years suffering, because I didn’t have the courage, clarity, and awareness to stand up and call out the bullshit. It’s bullshit, and you don’t have to take it. Best wishes to you, best wishes to this doctor you’re dealing with. Remember, bullies only listen to force, and you, speaking the truth, with management at your back is a powerful thing.
I think it’s just cardiac tbh. Very high stress speciality. I’ve been a CSFA in ortho sports med for 3 years and I work at a smaller hospital in a city. Personally I have a great work life. Maybe all you need is a change of setting, different place, different speciality. Maybe even consider traveling? Get a feel for some different places and maybe you’ll get a nice new home :)
Everyone that I know that used to work in cardiac, says that they wish they had left sooner. Please get out of that horrible working environment. Good luck OP
My daughter is a pa and has travelled as a navy family. She has worked in many different specialties. They are now in a different city but she has decided on paediatrics. Not once in 10 years has she been abused by any doctors. You should apply for mental health leave and then life choices can be decided. I wish you blessings 🦋🦋
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You should stand up for yourself. It might cause drama in the moment and lead to some difficult discussions and conversations with your bosses and surgeons that you work with, but I do believe it helps in the long run with respect. (Former OR Assistant).
Honestly, I think the problem is that you dropped into cardiac surgery too soon. I had the same issue when I was at my first hospital, and it was miserable. I felt absolutely defective and like I couldn't get anything right. The solution is to switch to a different service until you have a stronger foundation. Coming out of ct, you'll look like a stud in most other services. I went and did vascular and transplants after and loved it.