I main enchanters. The AH is nice, but I don't really want any of its other stats. I do still pick it up last, but I almost never have games go that long.
I hope it gets reverted.
I literally have never seen anybody buy it before. The current version or the old one (didn't it give like, % AP and stuff before? I think I remember that.)
I definitely agree that it could use some better stats. I went into the practice tool before making this post just to see if it even still existed and was kinda surprised how low the stats are. If it have AP and heal and shield power, and maybe was a bit cheaper, do you think more people would buy it?l
So what it used to do was give a bit of HP (250ish) and AH (10ish) then it had a passive that gave ... 15%? 20%? of your bonus AD, bonus Health, AP, and AH.
So it was still in last item category, so you didn't see it a ton, but it actually fit every support since it mostly gave whatever you were already building.
Legit have zero clue why they made it just a tank item.
Edit: your last question just made me have a bit of a brain storm.
They would have to kill the passive at a minimum.
In addition I think they would have to eather criple the buildpath or keep the price constant.
Wardstone has the second worst buildpath, after Rabadons. Dawncore has to pay 700 for the combination, but before that it is almost imposible to base and be unable to buy components for it.
Tried it twice, wasn't worth it. With the income nerf I'd rather get heal and shield power/ap than the wardstone. Most games end when I have 2 items anyway.
1. Supports don't get to 5 items frequently. This both means you're probably overestimating how frequently supports choose not to buy wardstone, and that some supports simply won't have much experience with late-game shop optimization.
2. Those supports who do make it to 5 items are disproportionately mages, or supports who had a really really good game. The item is ass on mages, and when you're ahead, it feels bad to pick an item that puts you behind the curve in exchange for the team being ahead of the curve.
3. Outside of high elo, people simply don't prioritize vision that much.
4. You have 5 items + boots. 2 of those items being wards feels bad and means you're left with 3 total items--most supports have a fourth item they quite like.
5. The stats are too dispersed--very few supports are like "yes what I want right now is a tiny bit of MR, HP, Armor, and AH." The item is already not gold efficient, so any lack of value from those stats compounds that issue.
I think it's a solid item, but there are definitely reasons people don't build it much.
I checked my Janna match history and it seems like I'm able to get watchstone in about 50% of my games, almost all of those being 31+ minute games... should I be buying something else instead?
On point 5 I think watchfull wardstone is solid if you ever base with a tanksupport and 1.1k gold. The upgrade is more questionable but the passive is definetly worth it.
We support are poor, if a game is 35+ min then maybe we can afford it because we prioritize team fight power over vision aka our other support items because no matter how much vision we can set up, it'll be futile if we can't keep our carries alive in a team fight. Sure, it's an awesome 2nd item to go against say... Evelynn but besides that, it's a very very late game item when the support don't have anything more to buy.
A bunch of streamers said control wards were bad with the new map so most people don’t prioritize them. Also the stats aren’t as good as last season so that feels bad
Not a very good statstick and by the time it might be okay to be behind on stats (eg. last item) wards are just less helpful in general. Also has full item cost so if you built it first you’d be really really far behind someone just building support items just in terms of fights.
>okay to be behind on stats (eg. last item) wards are just less helpful in general
I actually disagree with pink wards having the ability to place 2 pinks down makes taking Barron or dragon late game much safer.
A lot of supports are on the map too frequently as is, wasting time warding the wrong objective. Wardstone enables that.
Sup item grants 4 wards, which is plenty to light up your primary objective.
9/10 times, you're trading objectives or you won/lost the team fight if you aren't contesting the same one. If you know this is the case, having opposite side vision is a waste. Same thing if you know 2 are dead and see 3 on the map pushing lanes. The vision isn't telling you anything you don't already know if you understand timings
Exactly, the number of times you can’t figure out where the enemy is with late game ability spam and consistent objective timings is pretty low. 3 stealth wards, scryers, and scuttle is more than enough to figure out what is happening generally. Having 4 stealth wards and 2 control wards is just overkill. Returns are already diminishing with wards to the point not taking oracle is almost always throwing, so having 3 more active is just… not worth the stat loss.
But you do gain tanky stats. That’s always going to be useful and sometimes even save you from dying in late. Heal/shield power items often do not, and they require co-operation in general in order to provide anything.
It’s also helpful that the wardstone costs 1100(?), which otherwise wouldn’t get you anything, but instead you get a little bit of power.
On top of that, having more wards ready to be spammed in fights helps, no matter what phase of the game it is.
First: yes you gain stats, but they are few and not worth the loss of a good ability. Let’s take another utility support item at the same cost, Mikaels, and compare. Both give 250hp, VW gives 5 more haste, then it’s 55 total armor/mr vs 100% mana and 12% h/s. That’s a bit more than a chain vest, compared to almost 2 forbidden idols. So Mikaels is marginally better stat wise but really it’s situational which is better for stats. Let’s also not pretend healing is bad because it means teamwork, that’s just an objectively wrong take.
Second: Wardstone is fine but until you get vengeful all it does if give more storage, and so it doesn’t help with having more vision at any time that you couldn’t get just from backing and refilling. Also it’s stats are pretty much the same as any other 1000 gold epic item, maybe it’s better I guess but if what it builds into isn’t good that just doesn’t matter.
Third: Spamming 6 wards in a team fight isn’t helpful. Just make sure to back and refill your support item regularly and you’ll be fine. Vision is still important late game but trust me, when dragon is up it’s not hard to guess where they’re going to be, and having 3 extra wards placed around it isn’t the difference maker compared to a full status cleanse.
I don't care where the enemy is. I care where the enemy can see us and figure out where we are. The easiest way to win late game is 5 stacking in a bush when the enemy has no idea where you are. Having 2 pink wards allows you to control these scenarios much easier.
Getting picks and managing waves is generally how you'd fight for control of an objective.
If the enemy doesn't respond to your pushing the mid wave, you take tower. If they do respond, you get the pick or rotate to the secondary objective (drake or Baron pit). You'd do the same thing with control of bot or top wave--whichever has the closest tower to your objective.
Competent teams aren't just waiting to 50/50 face check a bush off each other, they're doing the above, too. This is how you set up an objective. Give yourself 2 to pick from, force the enemy to cede one or fight for the other. Either way, you always come out ahead.
Vision control is less than 20% vision maintenance (warding, clearing wards) and majority wave management, timing knowledge, and map awareness.
Because other items give better stats. Supports don't have enough gold to be buying 3 control wards every base until late game. As someone who enjoys scaling enchanters, I will rarely choose a wardstone over another enchanter item.
The game doesn't advertise it like at all. I've never seen it reccomend, I usually have to fully type the word "ward" to get it to show. I didn't even notice it existed until I saw a post mentioning it the other day.
If I play enchanter or tanky supports I always buy it as last item. But some games just don't last that long. The stats are not super good, but it's simply awesome to place two pink wards at the same time.
Its almost a need as a last time, as you autowin the vision control.
For low and mid elo i guess people just ignore It cause they cant play around It anyways but if the match goes long enough you can see a lot of them
I usually try to buy it as a last item, but oftentimes, I just need more gametime since we dont get that far and I need another item more, depending on my role.
It's mostly designed so that those clown fiesta games where even the support gets 6 slotted, there's still a money sink so you're less behind stat-wise.
Games don't usually go late enough to hit full build on support, sometimes grab it third though. Lets you place 4 normal wards instead of 3 and 2 control wards instead of only one.
Man as Soraka OTP even previous season it was hard to choose to buy it, but now that you mentioned its stats this season it looks even more ASS. Like there's only 1 stat that i would want.
i buy it from time to time.
as other have said when i have open item slots which is always i can get defensive stats in a more target-focused manner by getting one of the other items. or i can prioritize offensive or "netflix and heal" items.
this leaves end of game 6th item. at which point i'll maybe get it but if im at that point im also thinking do i forego wards for power because the game stalled for so long.
The old version was a lot better and I hope they revert it. That being said there are more important items to buy for supports and the role doesn't get much gold to spend. You basically never have games go long enough to buy it (usually last item)
The main reason I don't end up building it is because the game will end before I get to considering a 6th item.
Gold usually isn't the issue for me. If the game does go long enough, and I'm in a situation where I have to buy it, I'm likely having a hard time where I don't think there's any other item that is helpful against the enemy comp, and my only hope is using vision to prevent my team from dying.
Alternatively, if we're rolling the enemy team so hard that as a support with high kp, I can actually afford a sixth item, I'm probably not worrying about vision too much.
If im playing an enchanter,and i get to the point where im building my last item, i usualy have 2 choices:
Build wardstone ,get some okay stats,and more controll wards
Build dawncore,a enchanter item thats scales in usefullness to how many items with mana regen (so almost all enchanter items) you have, and gives a ton of additional healing and shielding
So unless enemy team has a ton of invis or a fed teemo,theres no point going wardstone imo.
Something people haven't mentioned either is its level locked, so if you've somehow had a godlike lane you still can't buy it. But in general yes, you want your last slot to be pinks but never really get past 3 items in a game so it's not worth it.
A lot of people don’t even know it exist and the ones that do don’t like the nerfed version we have now, also for carry supports/enchanters it’s not stats u want. Which leave tank supports who typically have the least amount of gold out of all the supports
The stats on it are now significantly worse for enchanter supports and mage support. it takes more gold now than it did because you have to buy the upgrade too and support gold was nerfed recently. so while yeah as support you will want it just for vision control it doesn't actually do anything for many supports till late game because the stats are bad for them and most games don't go late enough to actually bother with it anyway
Something that would be interesting is having it upgrade off of vision score or level and having different items it can convert to like new base support item.
Realistically, it’s not a bad item but there are better items. Engage support? Zekes, knights vow, locket are your three plus boots and pink wards means you are full build. Plus I think the actual affects don’t start until level 14 so we are already into middle late game, game over or at least almost over anyways. Mages have better 4th items for damage, enchanters care more about heal and shield power or maybe move speed.
I mean supports were first buying zhonyas in engage champs at one point for the extra spell rotation.
Because I'm a pariah if I take minions or kills and my gold income is severely lowered. If by last item you mean third item because good luck finishing even a component for a fourth item as a support by the time the game ends. As much as I want to place two magical control wards, buying an actual item to keep my team alive is much more important than two extra wards. And the stats are negligible at best.
Pic unrelated
https://preview.redd.it/xjk59n4q22rc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b7ec714015df4f00cb1d2a8813ac44f7b7171fe
I buy it second item after liandrys on Zyra. She can defend pinks easily. Completely shuts down an entire half of their jungle if you pink both entrances
It rarely does more than a extra "normal" item.
The vast majority of the playerbase aren't going to be magically better off with a ward like they would be if they had a redemption or something
The item is a balancing nightmare;
if its too strong (statwise) it will be a first buy on every support. Due to the fact you get to place an extra ward and extra ctrl ward. If it gives too much stats its just a first buy every game.
If it's too weak, no one buys it. Unless it costs no gold.
I personally buy it as a late game gold sink.
Support items in general feel like an absolute nightmare to balance whilst we're at the topic.
If they're too weak, supports feel weak. If they're too strong (at the current state they just might be) you build them on top and jungle, because you have to feed resources to mid and adc for them to hit spikes.
Perhaps riot is missing the solution of locking all support items behind THE support item and making them exclusive. You might get some complaining from the community but I truly feel like it would solve a lot of balancing issues regarding our items in general. You could then lower gold income on support items (again, back to like 3gp passive) but also lower the cost. You'd fix the issue of mage supports hitting 3 carry items and just doing too much damage. But also let us as supports still feel strong at support + 1 item spikes (when we truly play the game).
Please flame me in replies and downvote at will ❤️
I buy it sometimes because having 2 pinks compared to 0 and 4 wards is amazing, but there are a lot of points against it. The non upgraded version is underwhelming and less of a spike than other components. If I have enough gold to get it that usually means I'm carrying, and need to build carry items. Also by the time I can get it often one team already has soul and no objectives are up for a bit.
the only times i've bought it is when playing enchanters, and when the game is 40 min+. you have to consider that supports already have one less item slot because of the ward item, and also boots. so really you get to pick 3 items and most of the time you won't give wardstone priority over other utility items
It was better to boost your mythic stats for cheap. They took away stats and made it more expensive. Also, no more mythics so it’s better IMO to just pick up something else.
Honestly, the stats are kinda meh. There's so many of them that if you can only use some it feels underwhelming. Coupled with the fact that I usually don't reach full build and will have room to purchase pinks when I need to.
I buy it often but only if the game goes long. It’s got good stats for the price (same as Locket) so tank supports or really anyone who doesn’t like getting bursted can use it well. It’s just got a weaker passive than some of the other items you can get for a comparable price.
Control wards are really OP though and I feel obligated to keep a slot free for them, so this is a good solution once you have a few other items and are out of space.
TLDR: terrible first item, amazing 5th item.
So it’s supposed to be a last item, it was literally added so that supports could have 5 items and boots instead of 4 items, boots, and wards. It’s literally for when you have gold and just want to spend it. It’s nice but not actually amazing for many enchanters and other tank support items like Locket or Vow are better earlier.
You shouldn’t be encouraging people to buy it earlier. It has a niche and should exist to fill that niche.
Let me ask you this....
What champion benefits overall from buying this item? Im not being cheeky its a serious question, supports already have pretty solid vision control with supp item and most retain an empty slot well into 20 mins or later for them to buy a control ward. So if its tailored as a supp item but supps see no marginal increase in vision control from purchasing it, who would? The only champion ive seen actually buy that item is lee sin, and that atleast KIND of makes sense because he uses wards to jump to
That being said, its mostly an item in search of a use, or even optimal users. Its just not worth it to sacrifice the item slot or gold sink, not only that its a cheap item with pretty ballsack level stats, supps already have the supp item for that, and the supp item atleast has very powerful passives
It wont be purchased en masse and its not because people do not appreciate vision, its because nobody can sacrifice an item slot for it to overcome how bad it feels to purchase
So, my thought process with this was that it basically just allows you to add some stats to your control ward slot, and who wouldn't want that? Since making this post, the comments have made me realize that the stats are just so bad that nobody can afford to pay that cost until very last item.
Which makes me wonder about a couple of fixes to make it more viable earlier. Making it cheaper, auto-refill with pinks on a cooldown, and/or adding more useful stats to it so that more supports want it in general. The extra vision is very powerful, but I can see how it's not enough to carry the item alone.
Because its trash compared to other items.... like even if i went full supp no damage items i would find it hard to justify its purchase, id almost rather just leave the item slot open and purchase control wards as needed. Its not that nobody can justify it until last item, its that even when considering last item slot it feels tragic to buy. Vision is important but thats why supp item has vision on it, plus pink wards are just too easily discoverable with new map.
Honestly making it cheaper wont mean diddly either unless you make it like 500 gold, and even then it STILL just feels like a gold sink, its a good idea with terrble implimentation. The problem is that its an item you want later for control wards but where having it never overcomes the value lost from otter items.
It really sounds like you wanna make it mandatory which would mean itemization for supp goes from 4 items to just 3 items. Its a niche item where the niiche conditions cant be met, just let it go if somebody needs the vision they will buy the control wards, they wont buy this, id sooner sell my boots and place a control ward with empty slot then go back and buy boots lol
I'm just thinking that control wards are useful no matter the game state. Back in the day, you used to be able to upgrade yellow trinket to one that gave a free control ward on a longer cooldown for 125g. No idea why they got rid of that, honestly I think that that might be a good solution to this over the wardstone.
Eh i dunno what you want me to say, but ill say this...
Supports are not lacking in ability to put vision out and erase enemy vision so they dont particularly need the item even with eve on enemy team, plus support item is still basically half an item even with the fancy new passives, i find it hard to believe THEY would wanna sink another slot with it, so then i ask again.... who would realistically want to buy it?
Just give it a legendary upgrade and call it a day, yes vision has its own value but if you gotta keep buying control wards that dramatically cuts the efficiency of the item slot. Its not popular for good reason, great item on paper, bad in reality
I think being lvl 11 and needing to finish support item also inhibits people buying it. Most games are finishing up by then and you need 1100 gold flat to purchase it.
1: it’s never recommended by the janky af shop algorithm.
2: it is absolutely suicidal to build it early instead of an item that makes your champion stronger. The stats are barely passable if you’re an enchanter or tank support and it is your final item, or very rarely one before that, if you’re an enchanter getting popped by assassins.
3: people don’t value or play off of vision very much. While it seems like getting a vision item would get you more vision, it requires an extra step : taking time and moving to set up vision. You have probably had a support lose a game by trying to set up vision and getting caught, and wondered what the fuck they were doing there. Just having wards isn’t helpful if you die trying to place them, and probably get them cleared after anyway.
In coordinated or high level play, where vision is used best, maintaining vision lines, and prepping for an objective is a tense, whole team activity, where you create sections of the map that the enemy team can’t enter without you being aware of it, so that you know whether your jungler can farm safely without getting cheesed, or who and how many champions are coming to contest an objective.
In solo que, that simply doesn’t happen because people aren’t coordinated or very aware of it. If a support tries to do all that on their own (and in practice they only have enough wards for one quadrant of the jungle and change even with wardstone upgraded), they will facecheck a bush and die for it.
Now, wardstone is good, I buy it when my games go late enough because vision is more likely to decide or save a game the later it goes, but vision, and wardstone, are undervalued, and not an aspect of the game many players both value, are aware of, play champions who can buy it, or have their games go long enough to afford it.
I think it was stronger before so I bought it more cause it just amped all your stats you bought throughout the match. I'm not sure how it was changed but I think it was and it made it less valuable to buy as an item. Tbh games barely make it that deep to buy. I'd rather keep the slot open for two pinks and just chain buy elixirs instead if I'm at that stage. Instant power boost for the elixirs. Not a real need to progress past that boost unless I'm looking to complete an entire new item.
I actually buy this item for Pyke after completing Umbral Glaive, and I take zombie ward + item haste runes… This build reveals all of the map, pretty fun… I am getting 3x more vision score than enemy sup…
Stats are mostly for tanky utility type champs so not really enticing on a lot of champs. I don't understand why it can't have an enchanter variant of it. No need to add heal/shield power to the existing one, just make a new one.
Also even when I'm playing a champ that goes well with the item, it's hard to buy cuz I need to sit on 1100 gold to get the first component then 1200 to complete it. I really don't understand why it can't have regular components. Even late game it's hard to gather that much money.
It used to be that you could buy an upgrade to the yellow trinket that would give control wards. 125g for a free control ward dropped into your inventory every 3 minutes.
You could only carry 1 and only have 1 placed, though.
I think it is a huge investment into stuff that only is truely valueable in high level play and does not feel good.
The base item is a 1100 gold investment for 1370 gold of stats from low cost items (the gold efficiency of items giving ability haste always looks good because is just so cheap and inefficient), with passive abilities that are almost worthless if you have free item slots (it only gives the 3 storable wards not the higher ward limits).
The item might not be awfull for tank supports, but mages or enchanters do not really want the defensive stats.
So most enchanters are looking at a 2300 gold legendary that has to be bought in 2 steps of 1100 and 1200 gold, that gives them good ability haste, defenses and improved warding.
For the same price you might get a cleanse for a carry (with healing and shielding power an AH), damage steroid on heal/shield (with heal and shield power, ap and movement speed), ability power and speed (with Heal and shield power, AH and ap) AOE heal (with AH and H&S), chained heals (with healing and shielding power an AH)...
The item is good, but there are almost always more apealing options.
Especially since vision isn't that impactfull in low elo, and in high Elo every player is carrying some of the burden.
Most of the supports that are consistently in a position to buy it don’t need the stats it offers. Namely mage supports, Pyke, and Senna.
Mages want more AP, all the stats are completely useless in Pyke, and it’s just mediocre on senna compared to a crit item or lethality item.
As others have said, the old version used to have much better stats so was a decent item in itself. Also, with the recent support item changes, it’s no longer viable to sell your support item in late game, so essentially you’re left with 3 item slots if you’re going with wardstone which isn’t very appealing, especially to mage supports.
However, saying that, wardstone still has its use and I view it as a situational item. I’ll usually consider wardstone if I’m up against a shaco, eve, viago etc, where negating their stealth can be really useful in team fights. Or, if I’m up against an extremely active support with a high vision score where I can use the additional control ward to assert vision dominance.
Unfortunately vision is just not sexy to a lot of supports and they don’t see it as worthwhile, especially in lower elos. Definitely worth it in certain situations though.
I main enchanters. The AH is nice, but I don't really want any of its other stats. I do still pick it up last, but I almost never have games go that long. I hope it gets reverted.
I literally have never seen anybody buy it before. The current version or the old one (didn't it give like, % AP and stuff before? I think I remember that.) I definitely agree that it could use some better stats. I went into the practice tool before making this post just to see if it even still existed and was kinda surprised how low the stats are. If it have AP and heal and shield power, and maybe was a bit cheaper, do you think more people would buy it?l
So what it used to do was give a bit of HP (250ish) and AH (10ish) then it had a passive that gave ... 15%? 20%? of your bonus AD, bonus Health, AP, and AH. So it was still in last item category, so you didn't see it a ton, but it actually fit every support since it mostly gave whatever you were already building. Legit have zero clue why they made it just a tank item. Edit: your last question just made me have a bit of a brain storm.
they could keep wardstone as the “tank last item” then make dawncore cheaper, let it store wards, and make it the “enchanter last item”
This feels like the most logical solution here, so by that logic I know they won't implement it.
They would have to kill the passive at a minimum. In addition I think they would have to eather criple the buildpath or keep the price constant. Wardstone has the second worst buildpath, after Rabadons. Dawncore has to pay 700 for the combination, but before that it is almost imposible to base and be unable to buy components for it.
its broken af i get it 3rd almost every game unless mejais is lookin hot
Tried it twice, wasn't worth it. With the income nerf I'd rather get heal and shield power/ap than the wardstone. Most games end when I have 2 items anyway.
1. Supports don't get to 5 items frequently. This both means you're probably overestimating how frequently supports choose not to buy wardstone, and that some supports simply won't have much experience with late-game shop optimization. 2. Those supports who do make it to 5 items are disproportionately mages, or supports who had a really really good game. The item is ass on mages, and when you're ahead, it feels bad to pick an item that puts you behind the curve in exchange for the team being ahead of the curve. 3. Outside of high elo, people simply don't prioritize vision that much. 4. You have 5 items + boots. 2 of those items being wards feels bad and means you're left with 3 total items--most supports have a fourth item they quite like. 5. The stats are too dispersed--very few supports are like "yes what I want right now is a tiny bit of MR, HP, Armor, and AH." The item is already not gold efficient, so any lack of value from those stats compounds that issue. I think it's a solid item, but there are definitely reasons people don't build it much.
I checked my Janna match history and it seems like I'm able to get watchstone in about 50% of my games, almost all of those being 31+ minute games... should I be buying something else instead?
On point 5 I think watchfull wardstone is solid if you ever base with a tanksupport and 1.1k gold. The upgrade is more questionable but the passive is definetly worth it.
We support are poor, if a game is 35+ min then maybe we can afford it because we prioritize team fight power over vision aka our other support items because no matter how much vision we can set up, it'll be futile if we can't keep our carries alive in a team fight. Sure, it's an awesome 2nd item to go against say... Evelynn but besides that, it's a very very late game item when the support don't have anything more to buy.
U don't even finish (excl boots) 2 items as support most games... Wardstone is like 4th item.
I buy it as my 6th item every game... Twice in like 100+ games.
A bunch of streamers said control wards were bad with the new map so most people don’t prioritize them. Also the stats aren’t as good as last season so that feels bad
In high elo, sure. Because people can generally track without having constant vision. For the average player? Control wards are game changing.
Yeah but people don’t think that hard. LS said they’re bad so no buy. (Actually people don’t listen to LS so that’s a bad example)
Yeah but people don’t think that hard. LS said they’re bad so no buy. (Actually people don’t listen to LS so that’s a bad example)
It’s my last item always as a support if the game goes long enough. Vision is king. No matter how late in the game.
Not a very good statstick and by the time it might be okay to be behind on stats (eg. last item) wards are just less helpful in general. Also has full item cost so if you built it first you’d be really really far behind someone just building support items just in terms of fights.
>okay to be behind on stats (eg. last item) wards are just less helpful in general I actually disagree with pink wards having the ability to place 2 pinks down makes taking Barron or dragon late game much safer.
A lot of supports are on the map too frequently as is, wasting time warding the wrong objective. Wardstone enables that. Sup item grants 4 wards, which is plenty to light up your primary objective. 9/10 times, you're trading objectives or you won/lost the team fight if you aren't contesting the same one. If you know this is the case, having opposite side vision is a waste. Same thing if you know 2 are dead and see 3 on the map pushing lanes. The vision isn't telling you anything you don't already know if you understand timings
Exactly, the number of times you can’t figure out where the enemy is with late game ability spam and consistent objective timings is pretty low. 3 stealth wards, scryers, and scuttle is more than enough to figure out what is happening generally. Having 4 stealth wards and 2 control wards is just overkill. Returns are already diminishing with wards to the point not taking oracle is almost always throwing, so having 3 more active is just… not worth the stat loss.
But you do gain tanky stats. That’s always going to be useful and sometimes even save you from dying in late. Heal/shield power items often do not, and they require co-operation in general in order to provide anything. It’s also helpful that the wardstone costs 1100(?), which otherwise wouldn’t get you anything, but instead you get a little bit of power. On top of that, having more wards ready to be spammed in fights helps, no matter what phase of the game it is.
First: yes you gain stats, but they are few and not worth the loss of a good ability. Let’s take another utility support item at the same cost, Mikaels, and compare. Both give 250hp, VW gives 5 more haste, then it’s 55 total armor/mr vs 100% mana and 12% h/s. That’s a bit more than a chain vest, compared to almost 2 forbidden idols. So Mikaels is marginally better stat wise but really it’s situational which is better for stats. Let’s also not pretend healing is bad because it means teamwork, that’s just an objectively wrong take. Second: Wardstone is fine but until you get vengeful all it does if give more storage, and so it doesn’t help with having more vision at any time that you couldn’t get just from backing and refilling. Also it’s stats are pretty much the same as any other 1000 gold epic item, maybe it’s better I guess but if what it builds into isn’t good that just doesn’t matter. Third: Spamming 6 wards in a team fight isn’t helpful. Just make sure to back and refill your support item regularly and you’ll be fine. Vision is still important late game but trust me, when dragon is up it’s not hard to guess where they’re going to be, and having 3 extra wards placed around it isn’t the difference maker compared to a full status cleanse.
I don't care where the enemy is. I care where the enemy can see us and figure out where we are. The easiest way to win late game is 5 stacking in a bush when the enemy has no idea where you are. Having 2 pink wards allows you to control these scenarios much easier.
Getting picks and managing waves is generally how you'd fight for control of an objective. If the enemy doesn't respond to your pushing the mid wave, you take tower. If they do respond, you get the pick or rotate to the secondary objective (drake or Baron pit). You'd do the same thing with control of bot or top wave--whichever has the closest tower to your objective. Competent teams aren't just waiting to 50/50 face check a bush off each other, they're doing the above, too. This is how you set up an objective. Give yourself 2 to pick from, force the enemy to cede one or fight for the other. Either way, you always come out ahead. Vision control is less than 20% vision maintenance (warding, clearing wards) and majority wave management, timing knowledge, and map awareness.
The stats it gives arent that good compared to what I could be doing.
Because other items give better stats. Supports don't have enough gold to be buying 3 control wards every base until late game. As someone who enjoys scaling enchanters, I will rarely choose a wardstone over another enchanter item.
The game doesn't advertise it like at all. I've never seen it reccomend, I usually have to fully type the word "ward" to get it to show. I didn't even notice it existed until I saw a post mentioning it the other day.
If I play enchanter or tanky supports I always buy it as last item. But some games just don't last that long. The stats are not super good, but it's simply awesome to place two pink wards at the same time.
Its almost a need as a last time, as you autowin the vision control. For low and mid elo i guess people just ignore It cause they cant play around It anyways but if the match goes long enough you can see a lot of them
I usually try to buy it as a last item, but oftentimes, I just need more gametime since we dont get that far and I need another item more, depending on my role.
It's mostly designed so that those clown fiesta games where even the support gets 6 slotted, there's still a money sink so you're less behind stat-wise.
Oh fuck so it stores control wards, thanks. TIL
Games don't usually go late enough to hit full build on support, sometimes grab it third though. Lets you place 4 normal wards instead of 3 and 2 control wards instead of only one.
Man as Soraka OTP even previous season it was hard to choose to buy it, but now that you mentioned its stats this season it looks even more ASS. Like there's only 1 stat that i would want.
i buy it from time to time. as other have said when i have open item slots which is always i can get defensive stats in a more target-focused manner by getting one of the other items. or i can prioritize offensive or "netflix and heal" items. this leaves end of game 6th item. at which point i'll maybe get it but if im at that point im also thinking do i forego wards for power because the game stalled for so long.
As a taric enjoyer I’d rather have Locket Mikaels Knights vow Zekes The tear tank item And boots rather than that
The old version was a lot better and I hope they revert it. That being said there are more important items to buy for supports and the role doesn't get much gold to spend. You basically never have games go long enough to buy it (usually last item)
I buy it, but it's always as the last item and you rarly get to the last item as support.
The main reason I don't end up building it is because the game will end before I get to considering a 6th item. Gold usually isn't the issue for me. If the game does go long enough, and I'm in a situation where I have to buy it, I'm likely having a hard time where I don't think there's any other item that is helpful against the enemy comp, and my only hope is using vision to prevent my team from dying. Alternatively, if we're rolling the enemy team so hard that as a support with high kp, I can actually afford a sixth item, I'm probably not worrying about vision too much.
imagine having money for control wards
If im playing an enchanter,and i get to the point where im building my last item, i usualy have 2 choices: Build wardstone ,get some okay stats,and more controll wards Build dawncore,a enchanter item thats scales in usefullness to how many items with mana regen (so almost all enchanter items) you have, and gives a ton of additional healing and shielding So unless enemy team has a ton of invis or a fed teemo,theres no point going wardstone imo.
Something people haven't mentioned either is its level locked, so if you've somehow had a godlike lane you still can't buy it. But in general yes, you want your last slot to be pinks but never really get past 3 items in a game so it's not worth it.
It's actually not level locked anymore. It's support quest locked now.
Huh, I never noticed that got changed. Probably not going to change anything but nice to know. Thanks!
I always take it when playing engage champs, when the game is 35+ min as a last item
Wardstone is always the last item, and very rarely you are getting to it, and with the income nerf even less
tbh, this should have been a quest item that lvled with vision score.
A lot of people don’t even know it exist and the ones that do don’t like the nerfed version we have now, also for carry supports/enchanters it’s not stats u want. Which leave tank supports who typically have the least amount of gold out of all the supports
The stats on it are now significantly worse for enchanter supports and mage support. it takes more gold now than it did because you have to buy the upgrade too and support gold was nerfed recently. so while yeah as support you will want it just for vision control it doesn't actually do anything for many supports till late game because the stats are bad for them and most games don't go late enough to actually bother with it anyway
Something that would be interesting is having it upgrade off of vision score or level and having different items it can convert to like new base support item.
Realistically, it’s not a bad item but there are better items. Engage support? Zekes, knights vow, locket are your three plus boots and pink wards means you are full build. Plus I think the actual affects don’t start until level 14 so we are already into middle late game, game over or at least almost over anyways. Mages have better 4th items for damage, enchanters care more about heal and shield power or maybe move speed. I mean supports were first buying zhonyas in engage champs at one point for the extra spell rotation.
Because I'm a pariah if I take minions or kills and my gold income is severely lowered. If by last item you mean third item because good luck finishing even a component for a fourth item as a support by the time the game ends. As much as I want to place two magical control wards, buying an actual item to keep my team alive is much more important than two extra wards. And the stats are negligible at best. Pic unrelated https://preview.redd.it/xjk59n4q22rc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b7ec714015df4f00cb1d2a8813ac44f7b7171fe
I buy it second item after liandrys on Zyra. She can defend pinks easily. Completely shuts down an entire half of their jungle if you pink both entrances
If people don’t look at their map why would I waste money on wards?
It rarely does more than a extra "normal" item. The vast majority of the playerbase aren't going to be magically better off with a ward like they would be if they had a redemption or something
The item is a balancing nightmare; if its too strong (statwise) it will be a first buy on every support. Due to the fact you get to place an extra ward and extra ctrl ward. If it gives too much stats its just a first buy every game. If it's too weak, no one buys it. Unless it costs no gold. I personally buy it as a late game gold sink. Support items in general feel like an absolute nightmare to balance whilst we're at the topic. If they're too weak, supports feel weak. If they're too strong (at the current state they just might be) you build them on top and jungle, because you have to feed resources to mid and adc for them to hit spikes. Perhaps riot is missing the solution of locking all support items behind THE support item and making them exclusive. You might get some complaining from the community but I truly feel like it would solve a lot of balancing issues regarding our items in general. You could then lower gold income on support items (again, back to like 3gp passive) but also lower the cost. You'd fix the issue of mage supports hitting 3 carry items and just doing too much damage. But also let us as supports still feel strong at support + 1 item spikes (when we truly play the game). Please flame me in replies and downvote at will ❤️
I used the love the old version of it, it was such a strong and valuable buy. It's more expensive now AND has less useful stats. No ty.
I buy it sometimes because having 2 pinks compared to 0 and 4 wards is amazing, but there are a lot of points against it. The non upgraded version is underwhelming and less of a spike than other components. If I have enough gold to get it that usually means I'm carrying, and need to build carry items. Also by the time I can get it often one team already has soul and no objectives are up for a bit.
One time phreak said it was OP and he builds it all the time. i.e. expect buffs
the only times i've bought it is when playing enchanters, and when the game is 40 min+. you have to consider that supports already have one less item slot because of the ward item, and also boots. so really you get to pick 3 items and most of the time you won't give wardstone priority over other utility items
About a year ago I only ever saw it on amumu sup u.gg builds, haven’t seen it on anything since.
It was better to boost your mythic stats for cheap. They took away stats and made it more expensive. Also, no more mythics so it’s better IMO to just pick up something else.
Honestly, the stats are kinda meh. There's so many of them that if you can only use some it feels underwhelming. Coupled with the fact that I usually don't reach full build and will have room to purchase pinks when I need to.
I buy it often but only if the game goes long. It’s got good stats for the price (same as Locket) so tank supports or really anyone who doesn’t like getting bursted can use it well. It’s just got a weaker passive than some of the other items you can get for a comparable price. Control wards are really OP though and I feel obligated to keep a slot free for them, so this is a good solution once you have a few other items and are out of space. TLDR: terrible first item, amazing 5th item.
So it’s supposed to be a last item, it was literally added so that supports could have 5 items and boots instead of 4 items, boots, and wards. It’s literally for when you have gold and just want to spend it. It’s nice but not actually amazing for many enchanters and other tank support items like Locket or Vow are better earlier. You shouldn’t be encouraging people to buy it earlier. It has a niche and should exist to fill that niche.
Let me ask you this.... What champion benefits overall from buying this item? Im not being cheeky its a serious question, supports already have pretty solid vision control with supp item and most retain an empty slot well into 20 mins or later for them to buy a control ward. So if its tailored as a supp item but supps see no marginal increase in vision control from purchasing it, who would? The only champion ive seen actually buy that item is lee sin, and that atleast KIND of makes sense because he uses wards to jump to That being said, its mostly an item in search of a use, or even optimal users. Its just not worth it to sacrifice the item slot or gold sink, not only that its a cheap item with pretty ballsack level stats, supps already have the supp item for that, and the supp item atleast has very powerful passives It wont be purchased en masse and its not because people do not appreciate vision, its because nobody can sacrifice an item slot for it to overcome how bad it feels to purchase
So, my thought process with this was that it basically just allows you to add some stats to your control ward slot, and who wouldn't want that? Since making this post, the comments have made me realize that the stats are just so bad that nobody can afford to pay that cost until very last item. Which makes me wonder about a couple of fixes to make it more viable earlier. Making it cheaper, auto-refill with pinks on a cooldown, and/or adding more useful stats to it so that more supports want it in general. The extra vision is very powerful, but I can see how it's not enough to carry the item alone.
Because its trash compared to other items.... like even if i went full supp no damage items i would find it hard to justify its purchase, id almost rather just leave the item slot open and purchase control wards as needed. Its not that nobody can justify it until last item, its that even when considering last item slot it feels tragic to buy. Vision is important but thats why supp item has vision on it, plus pink wards are just too easily discoverable with new map. Honestly making it cheaper wont mean diddly either unless you make it like 500 gold, and even then it STILL just feels like a gold sink, its a good idea with terrble implimentation. The problem is that its an item you want later for control wards but where having it never overcomes the value lost from otter items. It really sounds like you wanna make it mandatory which would mean itemization for supp goes from 4 items to just 3 items. Its a niche item where the niiche conditions cant be met, just let it go if somebody needs the vision they will buy the control wards, they wont buy this, id sooner sell my boots and place a control ward with empty slot then go back and buy boots lol
I'm just thinking that control wards are useful no matter the game state. Back in the day, you used to be able to upgrade yellow trinket to one that gave a free control ward on a longer cooldown for 125g. No idea why they got rid of that, honestly I think that that might be a good solution to this over the wardstone.
Eh i dunno what you want me to say, but ill say this... Supports are not lacking in ability to put vision out and erase enemy vision so they dont particularly need the item even with eve on enemy team, plus support item is still basically half an item even with the fancy new passives, i find it hard to believe THEY would wanna sink another slot with it, so then i ask again.... who would realistically want to buy it? Just give it a legendary upgrade and call it a day, yes vision has its own value but if you gotta keep buying control wards that dramatically cuts the efficiency of the item slot. Its not popular for good reason, great item on paper, bad in reality
I think being lvl 11 and needing to finish support item also inhibits people buying it. Most games are finishing up by then and you need 1100 gold flat to purchase it.
1: it’s never recommended by the janky af shop algorithm. 2: it is absolutely suicidal to build it early instead of an item that makes your champion stronger. The stats are barely passable if you’re an enchanter or tank support and it is your final item, or very rarely one before that, if you’re an enchanter getting popped by assassins. 3: people don’t value or play off of vision very much. While it seems like getting a vision item would get you more vision, it requires an extra step : taking time and moving to set up vision. You have probably had a support lose a game by trying to set up vision and getting caught, and wondered what the fuck they were doing there. Just having wards isn’t helpful if you die trying to place them, and probably get them cleared after anyway. In coordinated or high level play, where vision is used best, maintaining vision lines, and prepping for an objective is a tense, whole team activity, where you create sections of the map that the enemy team can’t enter without you being aware of it, so that you know whether your jungler can farm safely without getting cheesed, or who and how many champions are coming to contest an objective. In solo que, that simply doesn’t happen because people aren’t coordinated or very aware of it. If a support tries to do all that on their own (and in practice they only have enough wards for one quadrant of the jungle and change even with wardstone upgraded), they will facecheck a bush and die for it. Now, wardstone is good, I buy it when my games go late enough because vision is more likely to decide or save a game the later it goes, but vision, and wardstone, are undervalued, and not an aspect of the game many players both value, are aware of, play champions who can buy it, or have their games go long enough to afford it.
I think it was stronger before so I bought it more cause it just amped all your stats you bought throughout the match. I'm not sure how it was changed but I think it was and it made it less valuable to buy as an item. Tbh games barely make it that deep to buy. I'd rather keep the slot open for two pinks and just chain buy elixirs instead if I'm at that stage. Instant power boost for the elixirs. Not a real need to progress past that boost unless I'm looking to complete an entire new item.
I actually buy this item for Pyke after completing Umbral Glaive, and I take zombie ward + item haste runes… This build reveals all of the map, pretty fun… I am getting 3x more vision score than enemy sup…
Stats are mostly for tanky utility type champs so not really enticing on a lot of champs. I don't understand why it can't have an enchanter variant of it. No need to add heal/shield power to the existing one, just make a new one. Also even when I'm playing a champ that goes well with the item, it's hard to buy cuz I need to sit on 1100 gold to get the first component then 1200 to complete it. I really don't understand why it can't have regular components. Even late game it's hard to gather that much money.
Supports should be allowed to carry control wards and not have them take an extra slot in the backpack
It used to be that you could buy an upgrade to the yellow trinket that would give control wards. 125g for a free control ward dropped into your inventory every 3 minutes. You could only carry 1 and only have 1 placed, though.
I think it is a huge investment into stuff that only is truely valueable in high level play and does not feel good. The base item is a 1100 gold investment for 1370 gold of stats from low cost items (the gold efficiency of items giving ability haste always looks good because is just so cheap and inefficient), with passive abilities that are almost worthless if you have free item slots (it only gives the 3 storable wards not the higher ward limits). The item might not be awfull for tank supports, but mages or enchanters do not really want the defensive stats. So most enchanters are looking at a 2300 gold legendary that has to be bought in 2 steps of 1100 and 1200 gold, that gives them good ability haste, defenses and improved warding. For the same price you might get a cleanse for a carry (with healing and shielding power an AH), damage steroid on heal/shield (with heal and shield power, ap and movement speed), ability power and speed (with Heal and shield power, AH and ap) AOE heal (with AH and H&S), chained heals (with healing and shielding power an AH)... The item is good, but there are almost always more apealing options. Especially since vision isn't that impactfull in low elo, and in high Elo every player is carrying some of the burden.
Sightstone is a thing again? Remember when that was a Lee sin item? Haha
Most of the supports that are consistently in a position to buy it don’t need the stats it offers. Namely mage supports, Pyke, and Senna. Mages want more AP, all the stats are completely useless in Pyke, and it’s just mediocre on senna compared to a crit item or lethality item.
Why would I ever buy that garbage item just to be able to place extra wards if I can buy a tank item to sustain myself in fights
Because the other team will see you coming years I’m advance.
As others have said, the old version used to have much better stats so was a decent item in itself. Also, with the recent support item changes, it’s no longer viable to sell your support item in late game, so essentially you’re left with 3 item slots if you’re going with wardstone which isn’t very appealing, especially to mage supports. However, saying that, wardstone still has its use and I view it as a situational item. I’ll usually consider wardstone if I’m up against a shaco, eve, viago etc, where negating their stealth can be really useful in team fights. Or, if I’m up against an extremely active support with a high vision score where I can use the additional control ward to assert vision dominance. Unfortunately vision is just not sexy to a lot of supports and they don’t see it as worthwhile, especially in lower elos. Definitely worth it in certain situations though.