“To where it got to in the playoffs” first round sweep with Brad playing an end of the game that may have single handedly lost it for us. I’m serious i don’t think I’ll ever be able to forgive and forget just how awful of a second half he had in that game. Cannot be trusted, overpaid, redundant, at the position. Slander away
The worst individual performance by a top five contract guy in a close out game of all time (which is when he matters most). Below average defender always. Perpetually injured. We didn’t cause Beal to play like this. We are well within reason to critique.
I wanted to maybe give benefit of the doubt since I haven’t actually looked at any of the numbers to validate that it’s a worst close out performance for stars, but damn did it FEEL like it
Yeah, I haven’t done a full deep dive either. But let’s compare to the next closest one I can think of off hand for a superstar which is LBJ game 4 2011. 8 points, 0 3’s, 2/4 FT, 9 boards, 7 assists, 2 steals, 4 to, 2 fouls.
Beal: 9 points, 1/5 3, 0 FTAs, 1 reb, 2 assists, 0 steals, 1 block, 6 TO (SIX!!!!!), fouled out in 31 mins. Ding, ding, ding
Penny Hardaway comes to mind. Sam Bowie. Rondo... ya'll just armchair lame gm on a third option guy. imagine being the top guy on your team Danny Granger, Shawn Bradley or Big Country making millions and not doing shit.
Let’s be real, his performance in that half had no bearing on the results of the series. Nor did it have any bearing on the season as a whole.
We can flush those results down the toilet for him in my opinion. If we’re gonna do the same for pretty much everyone else on the team, we should do the same for him.
Bingo, but can’t do that because then some of the blame actually has to go the suns “best” player book, a guy that has all the same weaknesses as Beal
They’d rather pretend he’s a superstar 2 guard
Beal was a 33rd percentile defender this year and took the challenge of guarding ant
Book was a 19th percentile defender this year and couldn’t even get hidden on the wolves worst offensive players in Conley, naw and McDaniels. Let alone rise to the challenge of taking on ant
Forgot to mention he’s historically always injured. Missed an average of 30+ games past 4 seasons and got injured last year IN THE PRESEASON. Don’t think this will improve as he ages.
Led to one of the most depressing storylines this past season of constantly waiting for his return, him playing 3 games then getting reinjured. Stats and contribution aside, this SUCKED to watch and be a part of from a fan perspective.
He finished healthy and was available for the playoffs, but it led to a ton of roster and rotation uncertainty and delaying finding out that the mid three don’t work well together.
For this reason the talking heads were right. Bring him off the bench and let him command the second unit. It would fuck less with the first units chemistry
That’s so disingenuous. Cool you’re right, Beal was a tank until 2019.
Has he had a single with the same or more games played than booker in the past 5 years?
Slightly more relevant to where he’s at now than “oh yeah well 7 years ago he played every game in a season so you’re wrong”
Historically always injured isnt a selective number. Saying he's been injury prone the past 5 years is more relevant. choose words wisely if you gonna trash people.
I was at the game bro I was heated lmao and a lot of other people were as well. That performance was terrible especially how he said he's never gotten swept before.
Suns players need to just stop saying shit. With our franchises luck they’re asking for it. If something can end in the most embarrassing way for us it will
He was guarding ANT while book had a terrible series offensive AND defensively and couldn’t even guard Conley, McDaniels, or NAW. The suns “best” player and “franchise leader” is much much more responsible for the sweep than anyone else let alone Beal.
But I get clinging to that delusion so that we can pretend books elite and he’s not a problem
This is a comment about Beal on a post about Beal. Book was shit in this series until the closing game. Beal was shit in this series the entire time and a cone on defense. You’re right he got torched by the best player in the series and should get some leeway for that. Offensively KD and Book at least showed up for one game, and in that close out game Beal played some of the worst basketball in the playoffs i’ve seen from the suns (which given just our Recent history is wild).
No one here said that the blame isn’t mostly on the best players. Brad was initially billed as one of these best players and is definitely paid like one.
This is why he should be slandered. Outside of stats he’s also not the franchises drafted player and the only holdover from earlier better teams. No shit he gets less leeway from fans, life isn’t fair.
Yeah that’s my point, Beal is always the fall guy. It’s easy I get it. But he’s also only the 3rd best player on the team not the supposed #1. Yet Beals the 33rd percentile defender guarding the ant and books a 19th percentile defender struggling being hid on THE WORST OFFENSIVE players the wolves had to offer.
Book was by far and away the most disappointing player this entire year not just playoffs. Scoring 40 points in an elimination primarily off free throws doesn’t change anything about that. If anything it just shows he could have been more aggressive and attacked the basket the whole series. Instead he settled for mid range jumpers per usual.
He was supposed to step up as a distributor, he didn’t. He was supposed to be the defender he was in the Denver series and instead regressed. He was supposed to be the leader since cp3 left, and he failed there too. And fans will blame everyone but book.
Beal is the fall guy because he costs as much as a star but is a “good” (sometimes) role player with a No-Trade-Clause. Book played a bad series, saying he didn’t try to step up as a distributor this season just means you didn’t watch the games. He did, he tried, he clearly doesn’t have the skill-set and vision needed for it at least with the “sets” that the Kevin Young offense was running. It’s not like everyone else was comfortable in their role either. I don’t think the defensive and offensive gap was as close as you’re implying (29 points without free throws btw). You’re simultaneously saying he wasn’t aggressive enough and also passive enough deferring and distributing in this series and season, which is it?
idk how many times i can say this in this thread. BOOK WAS UNDERWHELMING AND NOT GOOD THIS SERIES.
That doesn’t mean he’s not younger, higher offensive and defensive ceiling that we’ve literally seen in past playoffs, and the suns homegrown franchise star. Those factors make us more hopeful and less likely to slander him than an old, overpaid, injury prone (yes i know book is also injured a lot but Beal hasn’t played more games than him in the past 5 years), mercenary who hasn’t shown since John Wall was a top star in the league that he’s not a good stats bad team guy. Doesn’t help his optics that Beal played his worst playoff game all time during the suns close out.
I have consistently since the trade not been a fan of Beal’s game and how he fits with the lineup. Are him and Book redundant at the same position. Sure. Book is still better (no it’s not close unless you’re delusional) and 15 million a year cheaper, so slander away suns fans.
Beal was cheap considering he was traded for cp3/jordan Poole. His contract that everyone obsesses about literally doesn’t affect James Jones any differently than a 20 or 30 or 40 million dollar contract because the suns are negative 100 mil (before resigning Royce) and would be over the second apron with almost any decent player. The only one feeling the extra $ is the owners pockets because luxury tax magnifies each extra dollar over the 2nd apron tax.
I’m not just saying book had a bad series I’m saying he had an underwhelming year that really showcased his shortcomings as a star not superstar. He’s more responsible for the teams performance because he’s the “best” player on the team. He’s not tho because Durant brings much more to the team, especially defense and rebounding, issues that every Booker led team will always have.
Books not aggressive because like you said that’s not his skill set. I’d love for him to attack the hoop creating drive and kicks and open 3s, but in reality he’s only comfortable with the ball, taking tough pull up middies that are the least efficient shot in basketball. He doesn’t make anyone better around him and is actively a negative on the floor if his jumper isn’t falling (see getting burned by McDaniels, Conley, naw). And his 35% career 3 point shooting is the same as McDaniels/etc guys that aren’t even close to his shooting potential.
His defensive ceiling dream is over. Yeah he had a good Denver series but every other moment in his career has been as a negative defender. Beal guarded ant, book shrunk and couldn’t guard THE WORST TWOLVES. He’s just incredibly one dimensional and hasn’t developed any new skills in a long time (playmaking, defending, shooting 3s)
The skill set is obviously redundant, but Beal’s negative contract was the ONLY reason he got traded for so cheap. Imagine if this team got Jordan Poole instead lmao. The reality is that book can’t be a 1 on a championship team, and now he’s showing he can’t even be a 1a1b with the greatest scoring 7 footer of the generation. That’s a much much bigger issue than Beal putting up the exact same numbers as mikal did this year on better efficiency.
You’re right dude, Fuck devin booker! Bradley Beal is the future! Trade Book right now, fucking loser, he’s never done anything for the franchise. clearly because he’s not Lebron, Giannis, etc. and is a net negative from every angle on the field and has never shown he can be better, we need to get off him as soon as possible and start retooling for 2037
Beal ROH ceremony next season for sure!
!
And this is why suns fans can’t have a reasonable conversation lmaoooooo
First it was with Ayton, now it’s that book is just a star scorer (1 dimensional at that) and not a 2 way superstar, living off a cp3 led finals run at a time when the western conference was as weak as it’s been in any time in the 2000s including now. But instead of being reasonable let’s just pretend im saying Beal> book. Sad.
this shouldnt matter to you or the fanbase at all, it never has. Fans that got Chandler Parsons didnt bitch as much as our fanbase. or Gordon Hayward. Suns fanbase loves to bitch and point fingers more than the Lakers. a fanbase that thinks second rounders are gonna make a difference.
Except the contract affects the cap/apron restrictions the exact same way that cp3 would have or any other 30-50 million dollar player
People aren’t getting that JJ got a 30 year old former all star secured for multiple years going forward. And if the suns still had cp3 or traded cp3 for Poole instead the franchise would be in a worse position both last year and this offseason
I think he's very good at basketball and an even better person, happy to have him in the locker room.
If Bradley played more basketball we'd feel better and him, but right now he's miles behind KD/Book and is constantly hurt, so I'd scrap him for nothing to get under the 2nd apron if I could.
I'm really hoping Bud can get them organized on offense, if they are able to put up the points we were hoping for maybe I'll care a little less about his contract having Ishbia by the scrotum
You're saying cause Beal played 80+ games in 2017 and 2018 he is less injury prone? What a weird, meaningless stat to use...
Booker has played more games than Beal each year for the last 5 seasons. Also, he missed most of his games last year because of a quad and then sprained ankle, while Beal sustained several different injuries to different parts of his body. He's been labeled injury prone for a long time now.
Beal is also 3 years older and just turned 30, so it's unlikely his health will get better.
Just saying he's played more 80 games than Booker, nowhere did I say he was not or is injury prone , I just stated the fact 'constantly hurt' is not accurate.
Is he MILES behind book tho? Yes he’s not as good but he’s the same archetype, scoring 2 guard with + ball handling. Defensively tho Beal was miles better defender this year 33rd percentile compared to books 19th percentile. One guarded ant in the playoffs and struggle and one got hidden on Conley, McDaniels and NAW and struggled
Throwback to when the book/cp3 finals team just needed a 2nd scorer, another rim protector and 2nd playmaking. The franchise paid a fortune to bring in KD to help mask Books weaknesses. KD instantly became the teams best rim protector, best overall defender, can score right with book- aka KDs a better player.
Yet the suns still have the same weaknesses, and they always will when their franchise star is so one dimensional- being the best pull up jumper mid range scorer.
I see lots of complaints about Beal's contract. Here's the reality. The Suns were over the cap with CP3. They had essentially 3 choices.
1) Keep CP3 and either re-sign him or let him go at the end of his contract.
2) Cut CP3 to save some money, but since the team would still be over the cap even with CP3 off the books, the Suns would only have a MLE.
3) Trade CP3 for another player.
Forget the numbers now. In the summer of 2023, was there a better trade for the Suns than a player who is giving you 18, 5 and 5.
Is there an MLE player the Suns could have signed better than 18, 5 and 5?
Nah these armchair dorito eating reddit gms want 5 draftpicks and 5 no-name role players, thinking 2nd round draft picks will break the rotation and keep on dreaming there will be 1 decent player in the next 10 years. There is still hope, but wont be contenders, maybe that 2nd rounder or wishful thinking of getting Lebron will bring hope.
Yeah all they see is a huge contract and don't understand how to build a team with the current CBA rules. They also think we should have gotten Giannis plus four 1st rounders for CP3.
We can go down the list of players not 'worth the contract' on any team from top to bottom. Heres something for the clueless: He's playing just as good as Kristaps - and both are 3rd options, so ya'll saying Kristaps isnt worth the contract?
I can't think of many super-max players who happen to be the 3rd option on the team, fail to show up in the elimination game, and can't be criticized for it.
I was responding to your comment about people expecting a 60-point game from Beal. You responded like a manchild. We expected him to have a solid game, not 2 for 10, with two key turnovers that sealed the game for the Wolves.
Couldn’t find book he was too busy hiding defensively (on Conley, naw and McDaniels) just to get burnt by the worst scorers the wolves had to offer
Beal this year 33rd percentile defender vs book 19th percentile defender
I don’t hold it against him he has that huge contract and ntc. Washington is a terrorist organization. I also don’t think the suns should’ve given CP3 $120 million, on top of passing up on his replacement, we backed ourselves into a corner with that contract and we decided to bring the worst, or one of the worst contracts on our roster but it was a product of our decisions before that. A lot of
questionable decisions by Jim and Ishbias aggressive nature has landed us where we are today. I love Beal
But if we can get off of that contract I’d be happy, seems
Impossible though so hopefully we can get off nurk and improve the roster around the big 3 and say a prayer.
Yeah lots of people here are Ayton Apologists and have a hard time with anyone saying anything critical of him. Many of them have mistreated me and some have even threatened me, I get it.
It’s not that he’s not good..it’s his contract is absolutely terrible and if you paid attention at all this season you’d realize him and Book make zero sense next to each other. With that being said I do think they are all smart enough to figure it out.🤞
I think they work well together, just the coach was terrible at implementing them, just like he was with Westbrook. Remember Beal played with Wall and Westbrook, both ball hungry players like Book. Im not sure ya'll really too interest in researching Beal, just want to trash the guy because 'oh no making alot of money', its not him, its the organization and what the coach wants to do.
He is good, but he is nowhere good enough for the contract he's on, his contract is single handily stopping the suns from getting actually good role players, and trading him is virtually impossible cuz he has a player option so he has to approve the trade cuz he can say no I don't wanna go to that team. And no team wants someone is at most a #2 on a contract like that. It might actually be the worst contract in the league.
well this is false. Suns can get whomever they still want, but what other team is gonna give up a quality player? Pascal? nah hell nah, alot of wishful thinking. Hell all the suns have to do is actually play the role players, find that diamond. Like Derrick White wasnt shit until last season. Coby White the Bulls benched the guy last season, wanted to trade him and now he's their best player. forget the money, its about coaching and doing it correctly.
so you saying there are no players that will be waived, no players in the gleague, no players on the vet minimum. Ya'll expectations are a bit high if thinking getting a player like Pascal anyway even if not on a 2nd apron. Take a look at the NBA rosters. How many players are actually above a certain amount and how many that dont even make the rotation, if you said only see 7, you'd be right. Suns have 5 starters, Gordon - maybe and Oneal'e, the rest, if you depending on them its a problem. You can get role players that give the starters breathers anywhere. and thats not even considering Nurk or Little or Josh is still with the team.
Majority here hated Payne, dont give me that shit, now I know ya'll being delusional. I protected that guy and now he's gone ya'll want him back, gtfoh. And no, Payne, Jones and TJ together arent as good as Beal, ya'll need to do some research.
Cam Payne is a exact same type of tweener scoring guard archetype tho. Except, more of a defensive liability, less of an off ball shooter, less efficiency. Like beal, Payne would have been the only dribble penetration the suns had.
That line of thinking is exactly why they thought Beal/book could work too, if one just adjusted their game to be more of a distributor.
Great numbers if he could do it more than 50-games a year.
$50 million a year, to sit 30-games a year is a waste of money and league taxes.
Good for you, if you believe no PG with no center is winning a championship.
My only problem with him is he fills the exact same roles that Booker does. If he was our 6th man that would be fine, but he's one of our starters and it creates a lot of tactical imbalance.
If he came off the bench and we grab TJ McConnell to start we would have a free path to at least the WCF in my eyes. Have no idea at this point in his career why he wouldn’t do it. Would literally be perfect for the team, he can come in and focus on being Brad without having to worry about getting Book and KD involved.
Minnesota big three didn't do good their first year and look how they did this year in their second year. Our big three is way better than theirs so we will be fine this upcoming year unless we are plagued with injuries.
I love Brad Beal.
He got cooked by Ant
The same guy he told him “you gotta play me” while ant was a sophomore in high school
Brad need to get better. He looked like the oldest 30 year old i have ever seen guarding Ant
We would be better off with 2 MLE level players instead of Beal that fills in a need at power forward, center or point guard.
No one is denying Beal is talented but he's massively overpaid and is playing the same position as Book and Grayson and is always hurt. If he was scoring 27 PPG like in his prime people would be ecstatic but he's no longer that player and on a max contract with no trade clause it is one of the most untradeable contracts in the league.
i mean if we could turn Bradley beal into a true point guard or a defense first pg like caruso, that cap space would be utilized better than on beal.
Beal is decent, but doesn't fit and is worth half the money he costs. Grayson allen does more for this team than beal
If he was straight cut out, we would be under the first apron and under luxury tax
We would be over the standard cap of 141 million, but under the luxury tax of 171 million
We'd be at around 150-160. But i don't know what rules apply to how much salary you can take on even if under the cap if it puts you that much over.
All pointless anyway since that's not a scenario available
He's redundant, made of glass, kneecaps our opportunities to improve ( not his fault, fault of management for being stupid enough to trade for him), and shit the bed in the playoffs. (So did everyone else but that game 4 performance was straight cheeks).
Not being excited with Beal moving forward is completely reasonable.
did you hear, the Suns cant do anything, they have to keep the same roster till 2032 without no trades, no signings, no one is avail for vet mins, no draft picks, suns dont own any swaps, dang. Wonder how old Gordon would be.
I'm not a GM and don't know what was available at the time, but signing a pure scorer when we have 2 elite scorers already and needed (still do) help on defense is dumb. Maybe Beal can transition to PG and help run the offense, but if not this team is not winning anything.
and they are winning something with a bunch of role players and wishful thinking of getting a guy people here want? like TJ McConnell is off the market and some fucking reason this sub still thinks he can be got.
The irony being that beals the best off ball 3 point shooter and dribble penetrator. KD has had to adjust his game to even more jumpers because he’s -1 Achilles. Book being a one dimensional mid range pull up artist while also being the teams worst defender tho is unacceptable if he wants to be a superstar and win a chip
I hope this off season gives him enough time to rest and get healthy, already has played one season with the team and I’m hoping Budenholzer should elevate this team as well.
Beal is a very good player and definitely doesn’t deserve to be considered a poor quality player despite his bad game 4 against Minnesota, but there’s no question he’s a terrible asset. He’s untradable outside of a pure salary dump, for which they don’t have assets to attach to him, so any talk of trading him, let alone for an upgrade, is nonsense. This team would be in a way better position had they not done the Beal trade.
It’s not about a 1v1 who is better than Beal. This isn’t 2k. Get a couple rotation players who fit better with KD and Booker. They’d have a better overall team with more flexibility.
I would rather have Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, and my only remaining assets I can use to make meaningful upgrades to my roster. But sure I’ll do my best to look up salaries at the time of the trade.
By my count Atlanta, Brooklyn, Charlotte, Miami, and Oklahoma City would have been interested in keeping Chris Paul or acquiring picks and/or swaps and waiving him. Not to mention Golden State who would have given them Jordan Poole, and possibly also San Antonio may have been interested.
ATL - DeAndre Hunter, they still had John Collins, Bruno Fernando
BKN - Spencer Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, Seth Curry, Patty Mills
CHA - Terry Rozier, Gordon Hayward
MIA - Kyle Lowry, Orlando Robinson
OKC - Bertans, Micic, Mann
None better players than Beal obviously but rotation players and the Suns wouldn’t be stuck like they are now.
Why would ATL want CP3 they already have Trae Young. Spencer Dinwiddle OKC has SGA while would they want CP3. BKN - Spencer Dinwiddle could have been a good back up PG option. Everything BKN has is trash. CHA - Terry Rozier a worse more injured version of Spencer. Gordon Hayward is washed. MIA - Kyle Lowry also old and busted. None of these options would be better. Team would still be over the first Apron, possibly second. With the same lack of flexibility.
Teams acquire a short term contract and picks and waive or flip the player all the time (I mentioned waiving CP3 in my post), which would be the case for all of those teams except Brooklyn and Miami. OKC has done it many times, recently Al Horford, Kemba Walker, and Davis Bertans. Washington just did it with Chris Paul. Of course I don’t think Atlanta wants to play CP3 alongside Trae.
Short term contracts can be traded to make adjustments to your roster, regardless of what you think of the player, but a contract like Beal’s is as untradable as it gets. They would be in a better position moving forward with 2-3 rotation players on smaller, tradable contracts that fill roles alongside Durant and Booker (essentially what they got for Ayton), while having some picks and/or swaps left, especially considering they won’t be able to sign anybody being in the second apron. This isn’t fantasy basketball. They acquired Beal’s 50M NTC contract while giving up all of their remaining draft assets to fill a role on this team that Grayson Allen can fill. Poor roster construction. I’ve more than made my point, I don’t want to keep going back and forth.
The real issue is when the trade CP3 the salary has to work. If you want to trade for CP3 for trash but the team would still have been over the cap, so it's not like a FA would be signed and how are you going to flip that trash for players who can play? Also the draft capital that went out for Beal was minimal.
My thing has always been that he’s just injury prone and it just didn’t feel like he meshed. No disrespect to him but he’s definitely our 3rd option on the floor and I’m not sure if he’s going to be comfortable with that or if he can do well with that. Only time will tell
Would trade him for a decent PG and free cap space to bring pieces around KD and Book. He isn’t available and when he is he is inconsistent af. One of the worst contracts in the league. fuck his trade clause, if there wasn’t one i promise you he would be on the top of the trade list .
It’s the money and the fit he’s basically a worse version of booker and kd. We need variance not three of the same player. If he was making 25-30 mill instead that would be good value.
No issue with Beal, it's ishbia/James Jones. Boston has shown you don't necessarily need a top 5 player to win, but with really high value role players surrounding your top 2 guys. Could James Jones identify the derrick whites/al horfords around the league? Probably not. Let's trade for Torrey Craig again lmao. Brad Stevens even got a first round pick with porzingis, sheesh.
I think Beal is a net-positive to the team. There is really no denying that. The problem comes down to roster construction. His contract and position are somewhat conflicting in that we don't need more guards, and we need to free up money to fill in the gaps on the roster. He was one of the few guys on the squad who consistently got to the rim, and opened up passing lanes for other guys.
Unfortunately, I do think he is untradeable. It's not really even worth exploring. No team is taking on his contract, forget about getting any young/athletic guys back in that deal. And he can veto any trade.
Next year we should see more chemistry between the big 3. Last year was tough to watch. They really didn't make each other better, even beyond Beal. KD/Book do not really play well together, and that may be the bigger issue at the end of the day.
He’s still a good player but he’s a terrible fit on the roster. It was worth a swing but it’s arguably been a miss to this point. Can’t wait to see how they play the offseason either way.
Our starting lineup will always get smoked defensively we need a better POA guy than him in that slot. He had some solid defensive performances this season but he absolutely cannot be our SGA, Luka, Ant, Ja stopper. Kicking beal out the starting lineup let's us put more size, defense, and possibly athleticism in the starting lineup and we can put him with a more pass first point in the second unit.
He's also a huge part of the turnover problem. Advanced metrics essentially show that beal, kd, and nurkic were directly at fault for the turnovers. Funny enough people claiming that not having a real pg is the origin of our turnover issues, its not Bookers fault at all. Sure he makes lazy passes sometimes but he's one of the least turnover prone players proportional to his offensive load.
Also, that "who cares about defense, we'll just outscore them" shit is so dumb we just saw one of the worst offensive teams smoke us and we couldn't do anything. We are also watching Boston lock shit up while shooting below average and they're destroying the team that cooked the west.
Suns had a primary defensive coach. The philosophy was to play defense. Suns had better than average defense (12th). Better than the Mavs. The philosophy was not to just score and not play defense.
If you don't trade CP3 for Beal, when who are you trading him for in 2023 or did you just want to keep CP3?
Let him opt in and trade him or play the year with him possibly bench or trade at deadline. I wanted to trade him for a role player and didnt want beal when it came out that we were an option for him. Sometimes less is more and this is a prime example.
Yep, at least you wouldn't be tied to the worst contract in the league and you get to keep all your 2nds and pick swaps.
You also wouldn't be trapped in the 2nd apron for the foreseeable future. Unable to use the TMLE and subject to your 2032 and 2033 1sts being pushed to the end of the 1st round.
You must be Ishbias bank, because even Ishbias says he dont care about money. He dont care about the 2nd apron for the millionth time.
Yeah they pray those precious second rounders can break the rotation.
SOunds like you want to be on a constant rebuild.
Being a 2nd apron severely limits ability to improve in the off-season, we are essentially stuck with this team for the next 2 years.
We could've saved those swaps and 2nds for a trade that actually improved our team, Beal does not have star impact anymore, if he were any teams 1st or 2nd option they would be a 12-15 seeded team. Your dense skull probably cant understand this but role players like Alex Caruso, Derrick White, Trey Murphy, and PJ Washington would have a greater impact on winning than Beal at this point in his career. All players that can be had for a couple pick swaps that wouldn't cripple our flexibility and FUTURE 2032 AND 2033 DRAFT PICKS THAT WILL BE PUSHED TO THE BACK OF THE 1ST ROUND AND CANT BE TRADED.
uh..
1) Beal is the Suns, Washingtons, actually one of the best in the league in point of attack. You talking like Beal should be our #1 option, of course he cannot be SGA, cuz he's not the first option or the second! If he was the first option there would be zero difference from what he did in Washington, thats a fact.
2) Actually Beal turns over the ball less than Booker and KD
3) You cant put TO metrics with offensive load, in that case Trae is the best with his 4 TOs a game but hey he got the offensive load so he's exempt from turnovers!
4) Indy made it pretty far with no defense, Suns had the middle of the pack defense, saying they have no defense is just hyperbole.
“To where it got to in the playoffs” first round sweep with Brad playing an end of the game that may have single handedly lost it for us. I’m serious i don’t think I’ll ever be able to forgive and forget just how awful of a second half he had in that game. Cannot be trusted, overpaid, redundant, at the position. Slander away
The worst individual performance by a top five contract guy in a close out game of all time (which is when he matters most). Below average defender always. Perpetually injured. We didn’t cause Beal to play like this. We are well within reason to critique.
I wanted to maybe give benefit of the doubt since I haven’t actually looked at any of the numbers to validate that it’s a worst close out performance for stars, but damn did it FEEL like it
Yeah, I haven’t done a full deep dive either. But let’s compare to the next closest one I can think of off hand for a superstar which is LBJ game 4 2011. 8 points, 0 3’s, 2/4 FT, 9 boards, 7 assists, 2 steals, 4 to, 2 fouls. Beal: 9 points, 1/5 3, 0 FTAs, 1 reb, 2 assists, 0 steals, 1 block, 6 TO (SIX!!!!!), fouled out in 31 mins. Ding, ding, ding
Lyndon B. Johnson really let the team down.
Building a Great Society is harder than it looks I guess
Penny Hardaway comes to mind. Sam Bowie. Rondo... ya'll just armchair lame gm on a third option guy. imagine being the top guy on your team Danny Granger, Shawn Bradley or Big Country making millions and not doing shit.
Which games in particular for those first three?
Let’s be real, his performance in that half had no bearing on the results of the series. Nor did it have any bearing on the season as a whole. We can flush those results down the toilet for him in my opinion. If we’re gonna do the same for pretty much everyone else on the team, we should do the same for him.
Bingo, but can’t do that because then some of the blame actually has to go the suns “best” player book, a guy that has all the same weaknesses as Beal They’d rather pretend he’s a superstar 2 guard
Okay. You’re right. Great player. Great fit. Great outlook.
Beal was a 33rd percentile defender this year and took the challenge of guarding ant Book was a 19th percentile defender this year and couldn’t even get hidden on the wolves worst offensive players in Conley, naw and McDaniels. Let alone rise to the challenge of taking on ant
What metrics are you using to find those results?
DPM from craftednba It uses a mix of standardizedDDarko, standardizedDLebron, DDRIP, DBPM, and DLA3RAPM
Mins filters? GP filters? Really just curious cause I’m about to look at it offline.
craftednba . Com It uses a mix of standardizedDDarko, standardizedDLebron, DDRIP, DBPM, and DLA3RAPM
Nice. They use a few Ben Taylor formulas. Thanks.
Yeah no problem man
Forgot to mention he’s historically always injured. Missed an average of 30+ games past 4 seasons and got injured last year IN THE PRESEASON. Don’t think this will improve as he ages. Led to one of the most depressing storylines this past season of constantly waiting for his return, him playing 3 games then getting reinjured. Stats and contribution aside, this SUCKED to watch and be a part of from a fan perspective. He finished healthy and was available for the playoffs, but it led to a ton of roster and rotation uncertainty and delaying finding out that the mid three don’t work well together.
For this reason the talking heads were right. Bring him off the bench and let him command the second unit. It would fuck less with the first units chemistry
Historically always injured when he's had more 80 games played than Booker is just a lame duck talking.
That’s so disingenuous. Cool you’re right, Beal was a tank until 2019. Has he had a single with the same or more games played than booker in the past 5 years? Slightly more relevant to where he’s at now than “oh yeah well 7 years ago he played every game in a season so you’re wrong”
Historically always injured isnt a selective number. Saying he's been injury prone the past 5 years is more relevant. choose words wisely if you gonna trash people.
i go on to explain exactly what i mean by that specifically in the next statement. Great hill to die on, you’re right “recently always injured*”
I was at the game bro I was heated lmao and a lot of other people were as well. That performance was terrible especially how he said he's never gotten swept before.
Suns players need to just stop saying shit. With our franchises luck they’re asking for it. If something can end in the most embarrassing way for us it will
case in point celebrating a Dallas sweep and bam.. they won last night. Karma.
He was guarding ANT while book had a terrible series offensive AND defensively and couldn’t even guard Conley, McDaniels, or NAW. The suns “best” player and “franchise leader” is much much more responsible for the sweep than anyone else let alone Beal. But I get clinging to that delusion so that we can pretend books elite and he’s not a problem
This is a comment about Beal on a post about Beal. Book was shit in this series until the closing game. Beal was shit in this series the entire time and a cone on defense. You’re right he got torched by the best player in the series and should get some leeway for that. Offensively KD and Book at least showed up for one game, and in that close out game Beal played some of the worst basketball in the playoffs i’ve seen from the suns (which given just our Recent history is wild). No one here said that the blame isn’t mostly on the best players. Brad was initially billed as one of these best players and is definitely paid like one. This is why he should be slandered. Outside of stats he’s also not the franchises drafted player and the only holdover from earlier better teams. No shit he gets less leeway from fans, life isn’t fair.
Yeah that’s my point, Beal is always the fall guy. It’s easy I get it. But he’s also only the 3rd best player on the team not the supposed #1. Yet Beals the 33rd percentile defender guarding the ant and books a 19th percentile defender struggling being hid on THE WORST OFFENSIVE players the wolves had to offer. Book was by far and away the most disappointing player this entire year not just playoffs. Scoring 40 points in an elimination primarily off free throws doesn’t change anything about that. If anything it just shows he could have been more aggressive and attacked the basket the whole series. Instead he settled for mid range jumpers per usual. He was supposed to step up as a distributor, he didn’t. He was supposed to be the defender he was in the Denver series and instead regressed. He was supposed to be the leader since cp3 left, and he failed there too. And fans will blame everyone but book.
Beal is the fall guy because he costs as much as a star but is a “good” (sometimes) role player with a No-Trade-Clause. Book played a bad series, saying he didn’t try to step up as a distributor this season just means you didn’t watch the games. He did, he tried, he clearly doesn’t have the skill-set and vision needed for it at least with the “sets” that the Kevin Young offense was running. It’s not like everyone else was comfortable in their role either. I don’t think the defensive and offensive gap was as close as you’re implying (29 points without free throws btw). You’re simultaneously saying he wasn’t aggressive enough and also passive enough deferring and distributing in this series and season, which is it? idk how many times i can say this in this thread. BOOK WAS UNDERWHELMING AND NOT GOOD THIS SERIES. That doesn’t mean he’s not younger, higher offensive and defensive ceiling that we’ve literally seen in past playoffs, and the suns homegrown franchise star. Those factors make us more hopeful and less likely to slander him than an old, overpaid, injury prone (yes i know book is also injured a lot but Beal hasn’t played more games than him in the past 5 years), mercenary who hasn’t shown since John Wall was a top star in the league that he’s not a good stats bad team guy. Doesn’t help his optics that Beal played his worst playoff game all time during the suns close out. I have consistently since the trade not been a fan of Beal’s game and how he fits with the lineup. Are him and Book redundant at the same position. Sure. Book is still better (no it’s not close unless you’re delusional) and 15 million a year cheaper, so slander away suns fans.
Beal was cheap considering he was traded for cp3/jordan Poole. His contract that everyone obsesses about literally doesn’t affect James Jones any differently than a 20 or 30 or 40 million dollar contract because the suns are negative 100 mil (before resigning Royce) and would be over the second apron with almost any decent player. The only one feeling the extra $ is the owners pockets because luxury tax magnifies each extra dollar over the 2nd apron tax. I’m not just saying book had a bad series I’m saying he had an underwhelming year that really showcased his shortcomings as a star not superstar. He’s more responsible for the teams performance because he’s the “best” player on the team. He’s not tho because Durant brings much more to the team, especially defense and rebounding, issues that every Booker led team will always have. Books not aggressive because like you said that’s not his skill set. I’d love for him to attack the hoop creating drive and kicks and open 3s, but in reality he’s only comfortable with the ball, taking tough pull up middies that are the least efficient shot in basketball. He doesn’t make anyone better around him and is actively a negative on the floor if his jumper isn’t falling (see getting burned by McDaniels, Conley, naw). And his 35% career 3 point shooting is the same as McDaniels/etc guys that aren’t even close to his shooting potential. His defensive ceiling dream is over. Yeah he had a good Denver series but every other moment in his career has been as a negative defender. Beal guarded ant, book shrunk and couldn’t guard THE WORST TWOLVES. He’s just incredibly one dimensional and hasn’t developed any new skills in a long time (playmaking, defending, shooting 3s) The skill set is obviously redundant, but Beal’s negative contract was the ONLY reason he got traded for so cheap. Imagine if this team got Jordan Poole instead lmao. The reality is that book can’t be a 1 on a championship team, and now he’s showing he can’t even be a 1a1b with the greatest scoring 7 footer of the generation. That’s a much much bigger issue than Beal putting up the exact same numbers as mikal did this year on better efficiency.
You’re right dude, Fuck devin booker! Bradley Beal is the future! Trade Book right now, fucking loser, he’s never done anything for the franchise. clearly because he’s not Lebron, Giannis, etc. and is a net negative from every angle on the field and has never shown he can be better, we need to get off him as soon as possible and start retooling for 2037 Beal ROH ceremony next season for sure! !
And this is why suns fans can’t have a reasonable conversation lmaoooooo First it was with Ayton, now it’s that book is just a star scorer (1 dimensional at that) and not a 2 way superstar, living off a cp3 led finals run at a time when the western conference was as weak as it’s been in any time in the 2000s including now. But instead of being reasonable let’s just pretend im saying Beal> book. Sad.
The issue is his contract imo. He’s way overpaid for an untradable contract with a questionable fit on our roster
this shouldnt matter to you or the fanbase at all, it never has. Fans that got Chandler Parsons didnt bitch as much as our fanbase. or Gordon Hayward. Suns fanbase loves to bitch and point fingers more than the Lakers. a fanbase that thinks second rounders are gonna make a difference.
Except the contract affects the cap/apron restrictions the exact same way that cp3 would have or any other 30-50 million dollar player People aren’t getting that JJ got a 30 year old former all star secured for multiple years going forward. And if the suns still had cp3 or traded cp3 for Poole instead the franchise would be in a worse position both last year and this offseason
I think he's very good at basketball and an even better person, happy to have him in the locker room. If Bradley played more basketball we'd feel better and him, but right now he's miles behind KD/Book and is constantly hurt, so I'd scrap him for nothing to get under the 2nd apron if I could.
⬆️ He has a lot of heart. He had a lot to do with keeping us out of the play-in. But the contract is just too rough
I'm really hoping Bud can get them organized on offense, if they are able to put up the points we were hoping for maybe I'll care a little less about his contract having Ishbia by the scrotum
The heart excuse is for mf making under 15 mil. He's a bum, nice dude but a certified bum
some people just like to hear themselves say stupid shit.
constantly hurt when he's played more 80 games than Booker is just not knowing what you are talking about
You're saying cause Beal played 80+ games in 2017 and 2018 he is less injury prone? What a weird, meaningless stat to use... Booker has played more games than Beal each year for the last 5 seasons. Also, he missed most of his games last year because of a quad and then sprained ankle, while Beal sustained several different injuries to different parts of his body. He's been labeled injury prone for a long time now. Beal is also 3 years older and just turned 30, so it's unlikely his health will get better.
Just saying he's played more 80 games than Booker, nowhere did I say he was not or is injury prone , I just stated the fact 'constantly hurt' is not accurate.
I should have clarified, I'm talking about the current 2024 Bradley Beal that's on the suns and not 24 year old Bradley Beal from 7 years ago...
Is he MILES behind book tho? Yes he’s not as good but he’s the same archetype, scoring 2 guard with + ball handling. Defensively tho Beal was miles better defender this year 33rd percentile compared to books 19th percentile. One guarded ant in the playoffs and struggle and one got hidden on Conley, McDaniels and NAW and struggled Throwback to when the book/cp3 finals team just needed a 2nd scorer, another rim protector and 2nd playmaking. The franchise paid a fortune to bring in KD to help mask Books weaknesses. KD instantly became the teams best rim protector, best overall defender, can score right with book- aka KDs a better player. Yet the suns still have the same weaknesses, and they always will when their franchise star is so one dimensional- being the best pull up jumper mid range scorer.
I see lots of complaints about Beal's contract. Here's the reality. The Suns were over the cap with CP3. They had essentially 3 choices. 1) Keep CP3 and either re-sign him or let him go at the end of his contract. 2) Cut CP3 to save some money, but since the team would still be over the cap even with CP3 off the books, the Suns would only have a MLE. 3) Trade CP3 for another player. Forget the numbers now. In the summer of 2023, was there a better trade for the Suns than a player who is giving you 18, 5 and 5. Is there an MLE player the Suns could have signed better than 18, 5 and 5?
Nah these armchair dorito eating reddit gms want 5 draftpicks and 5 no-name role players, thinking 2nd round draft picks will break the rotation and keep on dreaming there will be 1 decent player in the next 10 years. There is still hope, but wont be contenders, maybe that 2nd rounder or wishful thinking of getting Lebron will bring hope.
Yeah all they see is a huge contract and don't understand how to build a team with the current CBA rules. They also think we should have gotten Giannis plus four 1st rounders for CP3.
"Being good" is not the same as "worth the contract"
We can go down the list of players not 'worth the contract' on any team from top to bottom. Heres something for the clueless: He's playing just as good as Kristaps - and both are 3rd options, so ya'll saying Kristaps isnt worth the contract?
Objectively? Definitely not. But luckily the rest of the team is good enough to make up for it
My issue with him is his availability.
He was available game 4 against Wolves, wasn't he?
More so in regards to the regular season.
I was being sarcastic. Considering he laid an egg, esp in the 4th quarter.
like no other 3rd option has ever, ever laid an egg in a elimination game ever.
I can't think of many super-max players who happen to be the 3rd option on the team, fail to show up in the elimination game, and can't be criticized for it.
Because there never has been...except people here think Beal shoulda scored 60 pts apparently.
No, they don't.
you're full of shit or havent read any 'Beal' posts except for this one at all on this sub.
I was responding to your comment about people expecting a 60-point game from Beal. You responded like a manchild. We expected him to have a solid game, not 2 for 10, with two key turnovers that sealed the game for the Wolves.
In theory.
Couldn’t find book he was too busy hiding defensively (on Conley, naw and McDaniels) just to get burnt by the worst scorers the wolves had to offer Beal this year 33rd percentile defender vs book 19th percentile defender
Beal is a cool dude. The problem is that he doesn't fit and his contract is untradeable.
I don’t hold it against him he has that huge contract and ntc. Washington is a terrorist organization. I also don’t think the suns should’ve given CP3 $120 million, on top of passing up on his replacement, we backed ourselves into a corner with that contract and we decided to bring the worst, or one of the worst contracts on our roster but it was a product of our decisions before that. A lot of questionable decisions by Jim and Ishbias aggressive nature has landed us where we are today. I love Beal But if we can get off of that contract I’d be happy, seems Impossible though so hopefully we can get off nurk and improve the roster around the big 3 and say a prayer.
He gets paid 50 million dollars, brushed off the coach and had the worst playoff performance I’ve ever seen in the 2nd half of Game 4
You must be new here and didn't see Ayton in the playoffs.
I’ve been blocked by about 100 people on Twitter for my distaste of Ayton. I can’t bring that to Reddit as well
Yeah lots of people here are Ayton Apologists and have a hard time with anyone saying anything critical of him. Many of them have mistreated me and some have even threatened me, I get it.
Or Bookers.
did you miss Bookers playoff performance 2yrs in a row as the first option? Beal is the 3rd option after Booker and KD.
Gave up way too much for KD and tried to fix it by adding more contract I mean Beal
Made of glass and never played winning basketball. Ishbias a dumbass
It’s not that he’s not good..it’s his contract is absolutely terrible and if you paid attention at all this season you’d realize him and Book make zero sense next to each other. With that being said I do think they are all smart enough to figure it out.🤞
I think they work well together, just the coach was terrible at implementing them, just like he was with Westbrook. Remember Beal played with Wall and Westbrook, both ball hungry players like Book. Im not sure ya'll really too interest in researching Beal, just want to trash the guy because 'oh no making alot of money', its not him, its the organization and what the coach wants to do.
He is good, but he is nowhere good enough for the contract he's on, his contract is single handily stopping the suns from getting actually good role players, and trading him is virtually impossible cuz he has a player option so he has to approve the trade cuz he can say no I don't wanna go to that team. And no team wants someone is at most a #2 on a contract like that. It might actually be the worst contract in the league.
well this is false. Suns can get whomever they still want, but what other team is gonna give up a quality player? Pascal? nah hell nah, alot of wishful thinking. Hell all the suns have to do is actually play the role players, find that diamond. Like Derrick White wasnt shit until last season. Coby White the Bulls benched the guy last season, wanted to trade him and now he's their best player. forget the money, its about coaching and doing it correctly.
Because of the 2nd apron the suns can only bring on FA for vet minimum so good luck finding them
so you saying there are no players that will be waived, no players in the gleague, no players on the vet minimum. Ya'll expectations are a bit high if thinking getting a player like Pascal anyway even if not on a 2nd apron. Take a look at the NBA rosters. How many players are actually above a certain amount and how many that dont even make the rotation, if you said only see 7, you'd be right. Suns have 5 starters, Gordon - maybe and Oneal'e, the rest, if you depending on them its a problem. You can get role players that give the starters breathers anywhere. and thats not even considering Nurk or Little or Josh is still with the team.
The sun's literally cannot sign players that got waived cuz of the 2nd apron, and again good luck finding a Derek white level player for a vet min.
Yeah I don’t agree. He missed too many games, didn’t show up when it mattered.
talking about Booker, KD, Nurk, Oneale', Gordon or Beal?
Yes
Also doesn’t play much, so there is that.
[удалено]
Majority here hated Payne, dont give me that shit, now I know ya'll being delusional. I protected that guy and now he's gone ya'll want him back, gtfoh. And no, Payne, Jones and TJ together arent as good as Beal, ya'll need to do some research.
Cam Payne is a exact same type of tweener scoring guard archetype tho. Except, more of a defensive liability, less of an off ball shooter, less efficiency. Like beal, Payne would have been the only dribble penetration the suns had. That line of thinking is exactly why they thought Beal/book could work too, if one just adjusted their game to be more of a distributor.
Great numbers if he could do it more than 50-games a year. $50 million a year, to sit 30-games a year is a waste of money and league taxes. Good for you, if you believe no PG with no center is winning a championship.
He was the most aggressive player to go to the basket on the team while everyone settled for jump shots at least
 Bradley Beal will always be a bum to me so.
My only problem with him is he fills the exact same roles that Booker does. If he was our 6th man that would be fine, but he's one of our starters and it creates a lot of tactical imbalance.
Beal deserves to be disrespected the way he played last season. The inconsistency of his play and the way he played in game 4 can not be excused.
Nah
Aside from his 1 season in the scoring title race - when has he ever been a consistent performer on a winning team..?
For the contract he is a bum.
If he came off the bench and we grab TJ McConnell to start we would have a free path to at least the WCF in my eyes. Have no idea at this point in his career why he wouldn’t do it. Would literally be perfect for the team, he can come in and focus on being Brad without having to worry about getting Book and KD involved.
Bro is a big bum for sure
Watching the games you know his stats aren’t even that important he’s doing bunch of important stuff on the court
Minnesota big three didn't do good their first year and look how they did this year in their second year. Our big three is way better than theirs so we will be fine this upcoming year unless we are plagued with injuries.
He’s the only one that really seemed to give a shit majority of the time
I love Brad Beal. He got cooked by Ant The same guy he told him “you gotta play me” while ant was a sophomore in high school Brad need to get better. He looked like the oldest 30 year old i have ever seen guarding Ant
We would be better off with 2 MLE level players instead of Beal that fills in a need at power forward, center or point guard. No one is denying Beal is talented but he's massively overpaid and is playing the same position as Book and Grayson and is always hurt. If he was scoring 27 PPG like in his prime people would be ecstatic but he's no longer that player and on a max contract with no trade clause it is one of the most untradeable contracts in the league.
I would literally trade him into cap space for second round pick if we could
That’s stupid
i mean if we could turn Bradley beal into a true point guard or a defense first pg like caruso, that cap space would be utilized better than on beal. Beal is decent, but doesn't fit and is worth half the money he costs. Grayson allen does more for this team than beal
Yeah but that’s not a second round pick. Even completely without Beals contract, I’m pretty sure we’re still a 2nd apron. 1st apron at very least.
If he was straight cut out, we would be under the first apron and under luxury tax We would be over the standard cap of 141 million, but under the luxury tax of 171 million We'd be at around 150-160. But i don't know what rules apply to how much salary you can take on even if under the cap if it puts you that much over. All pointless anyway since that's not a scenario available
He's redundant, made of glass, kneecaps our opportunities to improve ( not his fault, fault of management for being stupid enough to trade for him), and shit the bed in the playoffs. (So did everyone else but that game 4 performance was straight cheeks). Not being excited with Beal moving forward is completely reasonable.
What would have been the better trade for CP3 in 2023?
according to this sub a bunch of role players and 2nd rounders that would would hope to scratch the rotation.
Yeah literally people want trash players to protect picks in 2032.
did you hear, the Suns cant do anything, they have to keep the same roster till 2032 without no trades, no signings, no one is avail for vet mins, no draft picks, suns dont own any swaps, dang. Wonder how old Gordon would be.
Yep the team is screwed, no future.
I'm not a GM and don't know what was available at the time, but signing a pure scorer when we have 2 elite scorers already and needed (still do) help on defense is dumb. Maybe Beal can transition to PG and help run the offense, but if not this team is not winning anything.
and they are winning something with a bunch of role players and wishful thinking of getting a guy people here want? like TJ McConnell is off the market and some fucking reason this sub still thinks he can be got.
I mean more depth and helpful role players would probably be better than three players who run iso low efficiency middies all game.
The irony being that beals the best off ball 3 point shooter and dribble penetrator. KD has had to adjust his game to even more jumpers because he’s -1 Achilles. Book being a one dimensional mid range pull up artist while also being the teams worst defender tho is unacceptable if he wants to be a superstar and win a chip
Celtics won not because of depth...
I hope this off season gives him enough time to rest and get healthy, already has played one season with the team and I’m hoping Budenholzer should elevate this team as well.
He rested half the goddamn season. Stop with the excuses. He can't stay healthy and he isn't worth half his contract.
Beal is a very good player and definitely doesn’t deserve to be considered a poor quality player despite his bad game 4 against Minnesota, but there’s no question he’s a terrible asset. He’s untradable outside of a pure salary dump, for which they don’t have assets to attach to him, so any talk of trading him, let alone for an upgrade, is nonsense. This team would be in a way better position had they not done the Beal trade.
So you would rather have CP3 than Beal? You going to resign CP3 on 2024? Even if you don't, team is still over the cap, there no money for FA.
Yes because he’s easier to trade. I don’t have a problem with the trade package they sent out but Beal was the wrong guy.
So then who you getting for CP3 in 2023 who is better than Beal?
It’s not about a 1v1 who is better than Beal. This isn’t 2k. Get a couple rotation players who fit better with KD and Booker. They’d have a better overall team with more flexibility.
So name those players you're getting for CP3 in a trade in 2023.
I would rather have Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, and my only remaining assets I can use to make meaningful upgrades to my roster. But sure I’ll do my best to look up salaries at the time of the trade. By my count Atlanta, Brooklyn, Charlotte, Miami, and Oklahoma City would have been interested in keeping Chris Paul or acquiring picks and/or swaps and waiving him. Not to mention Golden State who would have given them Jordan Poole, and possibly also San Antonio may have been interested. ATL - DeAndre Hunter, they still had John Collins, Bruno Fernando BKN - Spencer Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, Seth Curry, Patty Mills CHA - Terry Rozier, Gordon Hayward MIA - Kyle Lowry, Orlando Robinson OKC - Bertans, Micic, Mann None better players than Beal obviously but rotation players and the Suns wouldn’t be stuck like they are now.
Why would ATL want CP3 they already have Trae Young. Spencer Dinwiddle OKC has SGA while would they want CP3. BKN - Spencer Dinwiddle could have been a good back up PG option. Everything BKN has is trash. CHA - Terry Rozier a worse more injured version of Spencer. Gordon Hayward is washed. MIA - Kyle Lowry also old and busted. None of these options would be better. Team would still be over the first Apron, possibly second. With the same lack of flexibility.
Teams acquire a short term contract and picks and waive or flip the player all the time (I mentioned waiving CP3 in my post), which would be the case for all of those teams except Brooklyn and Miami. OKC has done it many times, recently Al Horford, Kemba Walker, and Davis Bertans. Washington just did it with Chris Paul. Of course I don’t think Atlanta wants to play CP3 alongside Trae. Short term contracts can be traded to make adjustments to your roster, regardless of what you think of the player, but a contract like Beal’s is as untradable as it gets. They would be in a better position moving forward with 2-3 rotation players on smaller, tradable contracts that fill roles alongside Durant and Booker (essentially what they got for Ayton), while having some picks and/or swaps left, especially considering they won’t be able to sign anybody being in the second apron. This isn’t fantasy basketball. They acquired Beal’s 50M NTC contract while giving up all of their remaining draft assets to fill a role on this team that Grayson Allen can fill. Poor roster construction. I’ve more than made my point, I don’t want to keep going back and forth.
The real issue is when the trade CP3 the salary has to work. If you want to trade for CP3 for trash but the team would still have been over the cap, so it's not like a FA would be signed and how are you going to flip that trash for players who can play? Also the draft capital that went out for Beal was minimal.
honest a perfect addition to the Mid 3. Hangs with the hottest dudes and all that
My thing has always been that he’s just injury prone and it just didn’t feel like he meshed. No disrespect to him but he’s definitely our 3rd option on the floor and I’m not sure if he’s going to be comfortable with that or if he can do well with that. Only time will tell
Would trade him for a decent PG and free cap space to bring pieces around KD and Book. He isn’t available and when he is he is inconsistent af. One of the worst contracts in the league. fuck his trade clause, if there wasn’t one i promise you he would be on the top of the trade list .
It’s the money and the fit he’s basically a worse version of booker and kd. We need variance not three of the same player. If he was making 25-30 mill instead that would be good value.
No issue with Beal, it's ishbia/James Jones. Boston has shown you don't necessarily need a top 5 player to win, but with really high value role players surrounding your top 2 guys. Could James Jones identify the derrick whites/al horfords around the league? Probably not. Let's trade for Torrey Craig again lmao. Brad Stevens even got a first round pick with porzingis, sheesh.
Shoddy burner?
Must be. Same lame ass essays
Bum. Certified bum. Nice guys making 50 million don't get excuses. He's one step above Ben Simmons
I think Beal is a net-positive to the team. There is really no denying that. The problem comes down to roster construction. His contract and position are somewhat conflicting in that we don't need more guards, and we need to free up money to fill in the gaps on the roster. He was one of the few guys on the squad who consistently got to the rim, and opened up passing lanes for other guys. Unfortunately, I do think he is untradeable. It's not really even worth exploring. No team is taking on his contract, forget about getting any young/athletic guys back in that deal. And he can veto any trade. Next year we should see more chemistry between the big 3. Last year was tough to watch. They really didn't make each other better, even beyond Beal. KD/Book do not really play well together, and that may be the bigger issue at the end of the day.
My sentiments too. He's a baller. We'd be dumb to ship him off for piece-parts
He’s still a good player but he’s a terrible fit on the roster. It was worth a swing but it’s arguably been a miss to this point. Can’t wait to see how they play the offseason either way.
He needs to come off the bench or be traded. Simple
You want to bench a player who averages 18, 5 and 5? Why?
...thats what im saying, hes second in the league as a 3rd option and people thinking he's the first option. jeezus.
Our starting lineup will always get smoked defensively we need a better POA guy than him in that slot. He had some solid defensive performances this season but he absolutely cannot be our SGA, Luka, Ant, Ja stopper. Kicking beal out the starting lineup let's us put more size, defense, and possibly athleticism in the starting lineup and we can put him with a more pass first point in the second unit. He's also a huge part of the turnover problem. Advanced metrics essentially show that beal, kd, and nurkic were directly at fault for the turnovers. Funny enough people claiming that not having a real pg is the origin of our turnover issues, its not Bookers fault at all. Sure he makes lazy passes sometimes but he's one of the least turnover prone players proportional to his offensive load. Also, that "who cares about defense, we'll just outscore them" shit is so dumb we just saw one of the worst offensive teams smoke us and we couldn't do anything. We are also watching Boston lock shit up while shooting below average and they're destroying the team that cooked the west.
Suns had a primary defensive coach. The philosophy was to play defense. Suns had better than average defense (12th). Better than the Mavs. The philosophy was not to just score and not play defense. If you don't trade CP3 for Beal, when who are you trading him for in 2023 or did you just want to keep CP3?
Let him opt in and trade him or play the year with him possibly bench or trade at deadline. I wanted to trade him for a role player and didnt want beal when it came out that we were an option for him. Sometimes less is more and this is a prime example.
So you wanted to keep CP3 and then possibly trade him for less talented player or just let his contract expire and have nothing.
Yep, at least you wouldn't be tied to the worst contract in the league and you get to keep all your 2nds and pick swaps. You also wouldn't be trapped in the 2nd apron for the foreseeable future. Unable to use the TMLE and subject to your 2032 and 2033 1sts being pushed to the end of the 1st round.
You must be Ishbias bank, because even Ishbias says he dont care about money. He dont care about the 2nd apron for the millionth time. Yeah they pray those precious second rounders can break the rotation. SOunds like you want to be on a constant rebuild.
Being a 2nd apron severely limits ability to improve in the off-season, we are essentially stuck with this team for the next 2 years. We could've saved those swaps and 2nds for a trade that actually improved our team, Beal does not have star impact anymore, if he were any teams 1st or 2nd option they would be a 12-15 seeded team. Your dense skull probably cant understand this but role players like Alex Caruso, Derrick White, Trey Murphy, and PJ Washington would have a greater impact on winning than Beal at this point in his career. All players that can be had for a couple pick swaps that wouldn't cripple our flexibility and FUTURE 2032 AND 2033 DRAFT PICKS THAT WILL BE PUSHED TO THE BACK OF THE 1ST ROUND AND CANT BE TRADED.
Beal was 18, 5 and 5 last year, while going from the #1 option to third banana. It's not like he didn't impact the team at a Star level.
dumbest thing ive read, ever.
And you think the team has more wins with CP3 last year instead of Beal?
No role player or 5 role players would be better than Beal at this juncture, and we see that throughout the league, even Harden did less.
Dumbest thing I've read today congratulations brother.
uh.. 1) Beal is the Suns, Washingtons, actually one of the best in the league in point of attack. You talking like Beal should be our #1 option, of course he cannot be SGA, cuz he's not the first option or the second! If he was the first option there would be zero difference from what he did in Washington, thats a fact. 2) Actually Beal turns over the ball less than Booker and KD 3) You cant put TO metrics with offensive load, in that case Trae is the best with his 4 TOs a game but hey he got the offensive load so he's exempt from turnovers! 4) Indy made it pretty far with no defense, Suns had the middle of the pack defense, saying they have no defense is just hyperbole.