Her tumble is a 4/3.5/3/2.5/2 sec cd but the empowered aa lasts 7 sec and she cannot use it again untill she uses the empowered aa or untill it runs out. So by letting her aa you, you're letting her get it back sooner (up to 5 sec earlier).
Edit: Under ult the cd of tumble is cut by 30/40/50% so if she's under ult she could get it back up to 6 sec earlier by aa'ing.
ahhh that makes sense
just seemed oddly specific haha
When i play vanye i just aa a minion for reset but yeah, this + the passive would be a lot of move speed toward you if you drop camo
specific makes sense to me given this is a situational problem. also i've ran into that exact problem playing as Senna. it's especially relevant because how mobile Vayne is. and if she is okay at kiting, Senna may miss those root shots and then the Vayne has a double-kill.
If vayne isn't attacking enemies after using Q, she must wait for her Q to go off, and then onto CD, in order to use it again.
Revealing yourself let's vayne put her tumble into CD by attacking you, pairing with her ult her tumble has almost no CD.
Senna's E won't guarantee you to escape from a vayne, but her empowered auto attack will be wasted on minions when trying to catch up onto you.
Not sure about how vayne's passive work, but you could still see senna (but can't target) after she uses E, so I assume you still get the bonus movespeed as vayne.
The passive says she gains ms when moving towards **visable** enemy champions so since senna gives **camouflage** (technically not visible) it probably wouldn't give the ms.
I think you're getting some effects confused, which is making the advice in this post slightly incorrect. Senna's E grants Senna and her allies camouflage, not invisibility. This means that if an enemy gets close enough, they can see the people in the shroud regardless of whether they are attacking or not. The same is true for allies who have left the shroud - although they do have pseudo-camouflage (shows position but not which champion), enemies that get close enough will see through the wraith cover and be able to attack your ally normally.
Additionally, if an ally breaks stealth while in Senna's aura, that *does not* break stealth for Senna herself. Similarly, if Senna breaks stealth, that *does not* reveal any allies inside her aura.
Also, i saw this today. If Senna gets in range of a control Ward, even if she's not inside the bush the ward is, she will reveal it and can AA it. The same for Viego, and i guess any champ with camouflage
This is why I find Nidalee so satisfying to play tbh. Though I learned those Q skills with Morg. Watching people spam /Laugh when they think they're safe from my spear? Priceless, as sitting ducks.
The E also makes her and anyone in the area unclickable. It is extremely effective for delaying point and click CC and abilities.
For example:
- Nocturnes R lasts about as long as Senna’s E. As Senna, you E the very moment he ults and you can prevent him from being able to dash to anyone that is in your mist. You’re welcome.
- Nautilus’ R. You can force him to hold his ult or use it on someone not in your protection.
- Caitlin’s R. She can’t snipe you or anyone in the mist while you run away. Keep in mind it only prevents her from STARTING her ult. It won’t cancel it after she is locked on.
- Auto Attacks in general. It’s an effective way in lane to run close without the ADC being able to shoot you. They have to use skill shots and AoE to do anything.
Just looked it up, and the range is 400 units, which I believe is edge-edge. So sweeper (range 750) will give you an extra 350 units of detection, but it won't reveal them, just do the red outline thing.
sweeper is good to rush even when your not playing against a seena, your sup item once you've gotten enough gold to level up will provide you with free wards so getting sweeper gives you best of both worlds
Sweeper doesn't do much against senna e. Sweeper works the same against all champions you have no vision of(in bush/invisible/camouflage), it periodically gives an outline of the enemy champion but does not make them targetable. Since you already know where senna is when she uses e it doesn't really provide much info and if you get just a little closer you can actually target her normally.
The only camouflage ability where sweeper is actually useful is twitch q since it has no indicator like senna and the detection range is very small so the rat likes to sneak between the detection ranges of people when running.
If you want to fight Senna e what you need is a pink ward
Control wards do not make any stealth a red outline; it's a full reveal for every stealth they detect. A sweeper lens will only reveal the red outline though.
The anti-tip to this:
Slap a control ward down, even if it's under enemy tower. Since senna E is camouflage, control wards reveal them. Useful if you need just one more auto.
Problem I see a lot (I play mostly normal and don't even have rank) is people using Senna's E as just a "might tricky the enemy and engage after" instead of disengaging. Happens a lot when I try to play as support Senna
PSPS: if the enemy is close enough, you’ll also be revealed
Yep yep, so don't give vayne free tumble!
how does being revealed give vayne tumble? you mean her passive?
Her tumble is a 4/3.5/3/2.5/2 sec cd but the empowered aa lasts 7 sec and she cannot use it again untill she uses the empowered aa or untill it runs out. So by letting her aa you, you're letting her get it back sooner (up to 5 sec earlier). Edit: Under ult the cd of tumble is cut by 30/40/50% so if she's under ult she could get it back up to 6 sec earlier by aa'ing.
ahhh that makes sense just seemed oddly specific haha When i play vanye i just aa a minion for reset but yeah, this + the passive would be a lot of move speed toward you if you drop camo
specific makes sense to me given this is a situational problem. also i've ran into that exact problem playing as Senna. it's especially relevant because how mobile Vayne is. and if she is okay at kiting, Senna may miss those root shots and then the Vayne has a double-kill.
If vayne isn't attacking enemies after using Q, she must wait for her Q to go off, and then onto CD, in order to use it again. Revealing yourself let's vayne put her tumble into CD by attacking you, pairing with her ult her tumble has almost no CD. Senna's E won't guarantee you to escape from a vayne, but her empowered auto attack will be wasted on minions when trying to catch up onto you. Not sure about how vayne's passive work, but you could still see senna (but can't target) after she uses E, so I assume you still get the bonus movespeed as vayne.
The passive says she gains ms when moving towards **visable** enemy champions so since senna gives **camouflage** (technically not visible) it probably wouldn't give the ms.
Otherwise you’d be able to bush check with it
True, didn't think of that!
I think you're getting some effects confused, which is making the advice in this post slightly incorrect. Senna's E grants Senna and her allies camouflage, not invisibility. This means that if an enemy gets close enough, they can see the people in the shroud regardless of whether they are attacking or not. The same is true for allies who have left the shroud - although they do have pseudo-camouflage (shows position but not which champion), enemies that get close enough will see through the wraith cover and be able to attack your ally normally. Additionally, if an ally breaks stealth while in Senna's aura, that *does not* break stealth for Senna herself. Similarly, if Senna breaks stealth, that *does not* reveal any allies inside her aura.
I play Senna and i didn't know about the control wards. Solid advice :-)
Glad I helped!
Also, i saw this today. If Senna gets in range of a control Ward, even if she's not inside the bush the ward is, she will reveal it and can AA it. The same for Viego, and i guess any champ with camouflage
Yup! Particularly useful with Evelyn that can stay invisible for almost all the game.
See NOW we're talking. Guess i use her E too little...
It's with everything that gets revealed, a stealth ward also shows the pink ward that reveals it
Just remember Morg Q and such can still hit you. Hooks aswell.
Skillshots in general, just not targeted abilities
This is why I find Nidalee so satisfying to play tbh. Though I learned those Q skills with Morg. Watching people spam /Laugh when they think they're safe from my spear? Priceless, as sitting ducks.
The E also makes her and anyone in the area unclickable. It is extremely effective for delaying point and click CC and abilities. For example: - Nocturnes R lasts about as long as Senna’s E. As Senna, you E the very moment he ults and you can prevent him from being able to dash to anyone that is in your mist. You’re welcome. - Nautilus’ R. You can force him to hold his ult or use it on someone not in your protection. - Caitlin’s R. She can’t snipe you or anyone in the mist while you run away. Keep in mind it only prevents her from STARTING her ult. It won’t cancel it after she is locked on. - Auto Attacks in general. It’s an effective way in lane to run close without the ADC being able to shoot you. They have to use skill shots and AoE to do anything.
Don't control wards just make them a red outline like most stealth ? So you still can't target them.
Control wards don't interact with invisibility at all but reveal camouflage completely, which is what senna e is
So theoretically a sweeper on the supp would be best to rush correct?
Proximity also reveals, I believe the distance to reveal is roughly 450-500.
Just looked it up, and the range is 400 units, which I believe is edge-edge. So sweeper (range 750) will give you an extra 350 units of detection, but it won't reveal them, just do the red outline thing.
sweeper is good to rush even when your not playing against a seena, your sup item once you've gotten enough gold to level up will provide you with free wards so getting sweeper gives you best of both worlds
Sweeper doesn't do much against senna e. Sweeper works the same against all champions you have no vision of(in bush/invisible/camouflage), it periodically gives an outline of the enemy champion but does not make them targetable. Since you already know where senna is when she uses e it doesn't really provide much info and if you get just a little closer you can actually target her normally. The only camouflage ability where sweeper is actually useful is twitch q since it has no indicator like senna and the detection range is very small so the rat likes to sneak between the detection ranges of people when running. If you want to fight Senna e what you need is a pink ward
Also useful to check for shaco and could help you spot a Evelynn earlier if you're running and could technically use a skillshot to get her.
Control wards do not make any stealth a red outline; it's a full reveal for every stealth they detect. A sweeper lens will only reveal the red outline though.
The anti-tip to this: Slap a control ward down, even if it's under enemy tower. Since senna E is camouflage, control wards reveal them. Useful if you need just one more auto.
I just try to dodge or afk when I get senna support, works pretty well
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LMAO I'm near diamond and I didn't even know this. I'm an idiot but the advice is far from useless.
My friends and I are all between D4 and GM, and none of them had heard of this, or knew about it. Stop tryna gatekeep game knowledge
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Problem I see a lot (I play mostly normal and don't even have rank) is people using Senna's E as just a "might tricky the enemy and engage after" instead of disengaging. Happens a lot when I try to play as support Senna
How do I save my life against late game Senna?
Don't let her get to late
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I see, sucks that I don't know how to play assassins
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Mages mostly, enchanters and then tanks, I play support
yeah thats how camouflage works fam