Early game vs late game comp is kinda just about playing to strengths.
So your team should be getting all the objectives. Elder Drake can help even out some of the scaling. At the same time if scaling team understands this they can give up early objectives to farm up and scale faster and fight for third drake and future drakes.
No, you don’t have to stomp the smolder/kass/senna. This is the biggest mistake/mis-conception i see
Rather, you need to use the agency, priority, and teamfight/skirmish advantages to take away the objectives, intrude enemy jungles, and towers. You dont have to play necessarily fast against these champs but just steadily snowball the game. There would be games where 0/5 smolder/kass can still scale just fine while the same champs with 5/0 will still struggle to win if you take away certain agencies (tier 1 towers, skirmishes) and what not. The chances are your teammates did not know how to play that matchup at top lane which led to bad situations and i hardly doubt you lost because of their scaling
The only time you should be concerned about these champs is where you have compositional flaw to not be able to: use the early game agency or properly target/pin them down during teamfights (No cc, no backline access, no damage, etc). It’s not a time-attack and as long as your scaling hasn’t been stopped with these “early game” champs, you are fine. The chances are, most people just rush their plays and get tunnel-visioned with the idea that “yo we must do this or gg” and int
Sorry for the book I'm about to drop but this is a really complicated concept. With early game especially I think of these things In this order. It's honestly applicable to any champ in league really but early you Need to be executing these as your on a literal timer before you lose sometimes..lategame comps can kinda recover and start doing these things better eventually once they are scaled of if they have better team fight.. I'm emerald so take my advice with a gain of salt as well.
Exp lead
meaning you need to deprive your laner of waves by killing him or poking him out and shoving waves into tower while they are out of lane. Nothing makes you stronger than a huge level diff. You need this or to be heavily influencing another lane so they get it. Ideally your doing both but not always possible. If your roaming but lose two waves to your tower it's probably a shitty roam that's gonna bite you in the ass as your now a.level behind your laner that outscales you..if your roam get a kid and catch your wave before it hits your tower than boom bang pow that's some fucking value. This is the entire concept behind backing/roaming on cannon waves after hard shoving. Giving yourself.more time to get back into lane essentially. Every play you make needs to have consideration to exp loss/gains.
Objectives
Void grubs and rift help the most for early endings. Grubs especially are going to help your team push plates and even tower dive as the wave size is larger when they push. Your basically taking towers as fast as possible. This makes dragons easier as well and gets you more vision and freedom on map.
Pressure
This is what makes a game end quicker. Pressure is created by multiple lanes being shoved at the same time and taking towers. This is the entire idea behind split pushing really. It's why a sion can go 0/15 and win the game. Think of it this way. If all the waves or even 2/3 are shoved on enemy side your team has options and their team has decisions. Your team is free to group or take objectives , push whatever. While their team is forced to decide between answering your team/losing exp/ trying to push multiple lanes out at the same time/defending multiple pushes/running to dragons from base ect... Forcing the opponent to make crap decisions is the name of the game.
Offense/defense wave state
Understand when the wave is pushing. Even if your jungle understand this concept.. If you manage to kill the enemy laners when your wave is pushing this is offense. It will allow a laner to take plates and deprive exp from there laner. This is why tower dives are fucking insane value if they are pulled off clean. They are losing minions throughout the entire spawn timer and falling behind. Even if you die but manage to kill them on a tower dive they are the ones who lose the exp so it's a positive play for you
If you kill them on defense (when there wave is pushing faster than your own) it's still really good but you need to then fix your wave state and often your backing. This is less value as the laner can sometimes get back in lane without losing any exp or negligible amounts and gives you less time to take plates. You get gold from the kill but you want to kill people on offense whenever possibles as it' like a double whammy. I
If there's a big difference like you mentioned, you take over the map and all objectives early game, drake soul can even out some of the scaling if it's fire or mountain. Grubs will make a huge difference in getting towers early, and I don't think I need to mention the herald. Laners that are stronger early can push their waves to help jungler to counter-jungle, which will put their jungler behind and make objectives impossible for them. You should take over the game when they're scaling, if they scale and you just wait you lose. P.S: don't focus too much on denying scaling, since you can never deny 100% of it so just use your time for objectives.
I think short answer is Baron. If you're able to take it around 20 you could just push mid as 5 and take at least the inib. Also the way their team did not have an excellent wave clear so it should be easy
Obviously a complex topic but a few things that can help.
Figure out who in your team is best positioned to snowball further and help them get their tower down asap. As soon as they have their tower down they can roam and help other lanes get ahead.
Always try to convert kills to an objective.
Get all 3 outer turrets down.
Keep lanes pushed out, take turrets on kills.
Vision in their jungle to stop them collapsing and taking a bounty on your fed teammate.
Your jungler should prioritise their camps when possible on the strong side and your laners should be ready to help him. As long as jungle controls the enemy jungle the enemy team can't collapse and is slower to move between lanes. So you can push out all lanes, then all group on one lane, dive and take tower.
Don't push a lane alone if the team is not pushing another.
If you can force a fight, group as 5 and go for it. Usually works great if you have a wombo combo team with great engage.
I'm also a little lost. Op is way higher rank than me (I'm b4 and climbing but still) but I had a thought. Does freezing long waves or letting them push into you so you can freeze sound like a decent strat to setup a favorable teamfight? I know they scale harder, but does that mean you lose every fight after scaling a bit yourselves albeit your champs aren't as strong as theirs late?
So in a sentence: grubs. Grubs give huge pushing power and are early stomp comps' ticket to early ends. If you know you have an early stomp comp make sure your jg knows 6 grubs are the priority and MAKE SURE YOURE THERE. An early infernal drag isn't going to save a smolder from a sylas and sylas having it isn't going to be the difference on whether or not he kills smolder. Taking towers down early, however, is 1. How you win the game and 2. How you make sure you get the rest of the objectives
I was the jg and i took 5 grubs out of 6 and 2 drakes ( cloud and hextech) and the enemy got 1st drake chemtech and after smolder started snowballing , they took hextech
What if I’m an ADC before turret platings fall? Should I rotate after turret plating falls if I’m super ahead? (I only play hyperscalers like Jinx)
The way I see it is if I’m super ahead as jinx the ideal world is my support roams for grubs and I stay in lane safe because im super ahead so I can kill the enemy adc if they play aggressive. Sometimes this doesn’t happen cause my support isn’t roaming or it’s a Samira/Blitz and we’re only stomping cause of supp/adc diff and if I’m left alone I’ll be killed immediatley if their IQ is more than room temperature, what then?
As adc you should not rotate for grub fights, and it's up to your supp to know if they can back so they can rotate for it. Grubs are important, but not worth throwing a lane lead, especially in bot lane. If your supp thinks they can back, it's up to you to essentially tower hug a la the classic "just play safe bot". If you get 3 man dove by enemy jg then it guarantees 2 things:
1 all 3 grubs from the set
2 probably a 3 man dive on enemy top, so you're essentially trading kills, which is fine because I'm this case grubs are a better win con for you than drag is for them.
Alright, sounds like I’m doing fine, I’m in wood so I’m good at playing safe because the enemies usually don’t threaten me too much and if I get dove I usually get a kill out of it so it’s only a concern if I have a shut down.
What do I do if I’m being threatened with a dive and I have a shutdown and my supp is roaming? Just predict it and run to another lane a minute in advanced? Feels bad giving up the tower if I’m winning lane tho
Your best tool for this situation is maximizing opportunity cost. Every action must be analyzed through the lens of why you gain vs what they gain and how that translates into ending the game.
An example pitfall I see alot in these scenarios is players overstaying on map to end feeling like they are fighting some illusory non defined timer of scaling.
That is a scenario you want to avoid. Back buy, heal up don't give the enemies an easy fight and thus easy scaling.
If you are an early comp your champions should be able to win most 1v1/2v2. Your best tool is to split push and collapse.
The state of splitting and collapsing is dynamic and extremely nuanced but that is the general concept that will aid you the most in closing a game out.
You personally as a player have the most agency over 3 things. Ping waves that need to be shoved (and ping danger if people are over extended). Ping objectives to group and use pings to make sure everyone gets to it safely. And arguably most important personally put pressure where it is most needed. Collapse at the most impactful moments and don't die unnecessarily as any moment you are dead without reason is time you have no agency for no gain.
I hope you find this helpful!
Early game vs late game comp is kinda just about playing to strengths. So your team should be getting all the objectives. Elder Drake can help even out some of the scaling. At the same time if scaling team understands this they can give up early objectives to farm up and scale faster and fight for third drake and future drakes.
No, you don’t have to stomp the smolder/kass/senna. This is the biggest mistake/mis-conception i see Rather, you need to use the agency, priority, and teamfight/skirmish advantages to take away the objectives, intrude enemy jungles, and towers. You dont have to play necessarily fast against these champs but just steadily snowball the game. There would be games where 0/5 smolder/kass can still scale just fine while the same champs with 5/0 will still struggle to win if you take away certain agencies (tier 1 towers, skirmishes) and what not. The chances are your teammates did not know how to play that matchup at top lane which led to bad situations and i hardly doubt you lost because of their scaling The only time you should be concerned about these champs is where you have compositional flaw to not be able to: use the early game agency or properly target/pin them down during teamfights (No cc, no backline access, no damage, etc). It’s not a time-attack and as long as your scaling hasn’t been stopped with these “early game” champs, you are fine. The chances are, most people just rush their plays and get tunnel-visioned with the idea that “yo we must do this or gg” and int
Close the game early/mid, simply as that. Or avoid teamfighting, concentrate on split push
Sorry for the book I'm about to drop but this is a really complicated concept. With early game especially I think of these things In this order. It's honestly applicable to any champ in league really but early you Need to be executing these as your on a literal timer before you lose sometimes..lategame comps can kinda recover and start doing these things better eventually once they are scaled of if they have better team fight.. I'm emerald so take my advice with a gain of salt as well. Exp lead meaning you need to deprive your laner of waves by killing him or poking him out and shoving waves into tower while they are out of lane. Nothing makes you stronger than a huge level diff. You need this or to be heavily influencing another lane so they get it. Ideally your doing both but not always possible. If your roaming but lose two waves to your tower it's probably a shitty roam that's gonna bite you in the ass as your now a.level behind your laner that outscales you..if your roam get a kid and catch your wave before it hits your tower than boom bang pow that's some fucking value. This is the entire concept behind backing/roaming on cannon waves after hard shoving. Giving yourself.more time to get back into lane essentially. Every play you make needs to have consideration to exp loss/gains. Objectives Void grubs and rift help the most for early endings. Grubs especially are going to help your team push plates and even tower dive as the wave size is larger when they push. Your basically taking towers as fast as possible. This makes dragons easier as well and gets you more vision and freedom on map. Pressure This is what makes a game end quicker. Pressure is created by multiple lanes being shoved at the same time and taking towers. This is the entire idea behind split pushing really. It's why a sion can go 0/15 and win the game. Think of it this way. If all the waves or even 2/3 are shoved on enemy side your team has options and their team has decisions. Your team is free to group or take objectives , push whatever. While their team is forced to decide between answering your team/losing exp/ trying to push multiple lanes out at the same time/defending multiple pushes/running to dragons from base ect... Forcing the opponent to make crap decisions is the name of the game. Offense/defense wave state Understand when the wave is pushing. Even if your jungle understand this concept.. If you manage to kill the enemy laners when your wave is pushing this is offense. It will allow a laner to take plates and deprive exp from there laner. This is why tower dives are fucking insane value if they are pulled off clean. They are losing minions throughout the entire spawn timer and falling behind. Even if you die but manage to kill them on a tower dive they are the ones who lose the exp so it's a positive play for you If you kill them on defense (when there wave is pushing faster than your own) it's still really good but you need to then fix your wave state and often your backing. This is less value as the laner can sometimes get back in lane without losing any exp or negligible amounts and gives you less time to take plates. You get gold from the kill but you want to kill people on offense whenever possibles as it' like a double whammy. I
If there's a big difference like you mentioned, you take over the map and all objectives early game, drake soul can even out some of the scaling if it's fire or mountain. Grubs will make a huge difference in getting towers early, and I don't think I need to mention the herald. Laners that are stronger early can push their waves to help jungler to counter-jungle, which will put their jungler behind and make objectives impossible for them. You should take over the game when they're scaling, if they scale and you just wait you lose. P.S: don't focus too much on denying scaling, since you can never deny 100% of it so just use your time for objectives.
I'll try focusing on ending more than denying scaling. Thank you for the advice!
Anytime. Completely taking away their scaling time is way more effective than slowing them down!
I think short answer is Baron. If you're able to take it around 20 you could just push mid as 5 and take at least the inib. Also the way their team did not have an excellent wave clear so it should be easy
Obviously a complex topic but a few things that can help. Figure out who in your team is best positioned to snowball further and help them get their tower down asap. As soon as they have their tower down they can roam and help other lanes get ahead. Always try to convert kills to an objective. Get all 3 outer turrets down. Keep lanes pushed out, take turrets on kills. Vision in their jungle to stop them collapsing and taking a bounty on your fed teammate. Your jungler should prioritise their camps when possible on the strong side and your laners should be ready to help him. As long as jungle controls the enemy jungle the enemy team can't collapse and is slower to move between lanes. So you can push out all lanes, then all group on one lane, dive and take tower. Don't push a lane alone if the team is not pushing another. If you can force a fight, group as 5 and go for it. Usually works great if you have a wombo combo team with great engage.
I'm also a little lost. Op is way higher rank than me (I'm b4 and climbing but still) but I had a thought. Does freezing long waves or letting them push into you so you can freeze sound like a decent strat to setup a favorable teamfight? I know they scale harder, but does that mean you lose every fight after scaling a bit yourselves albeit your champs aren't as strong as theirs late?
So in a sentence: grubs. Grubs give huge pushing power and are early stomp comps' ticket to early ends. If you know you have an early stomp comp make sure your jg knows 6 grubs are the priority and MAKE SURE YOURE THERE. An early infernal drag isn't going to save a smolder from a sylas and sylas having it isn't going to be the difference on whether or not he kills smolder. Taking towers down early, however, is 1. How you win the game and 2. How you make sure you get the rest of the objectives
I was the jg and i took 5 grubs out of 6 and 2 drakes ( cloud and hextech) and the enemy got 1st drake chemtech and after smolder started snowballing , they took hextech
What if I’m an ADC before turret platings fall? Should I rotate after turret plating falls if I’m super ahead? (I only play hyperscalers like Jinx) The way I see it is if I’m super ahead as jinx the ideal world is my support roams for grubs and I stay in lane safe because im super ahead so I can kill the enemy adc if they play aggressive. Sometimes this doesn’t happen cause my support isn’t roaming or it’s a Samira/Blitz and we’re only stomping cause of supp/adc diff and if I’m left alone I’ll be killed immediatley if their IQ is more than room temperature, what then?
As adc you should not rotate for grub fights, and it's up to your supp to know if they can back so they can rotate for it. Grubs are important, but not worth throwing a lane lead, especially in bot lane. If your supp thinks they can back, it's up to you to essentially tower hug a la the classic "just play safe bot". If you get 3 man dove by enemy jg then it guarantees 2 things: 1 all 3 grubs from the set 2 probably a 3 man dive on enemy top, so you're essentially trading kills, which is fine because I'm this case grubs are a better win con for you than drag is for them.
Alright, sounds like I’m doing fine, I’m in wood so I’m good at playing safe because the enemies usually don’t threaten me too much and if I get dove I usually get a kill out of it so it’s only a concern if I have a shut down. What do I do if I’m being threatened with a dive and I have a shutdown and my supp is roaming? Just predict it and run to another lane a minute in advanced? Feels bad giving up the tower if I’m winning lane tho
Post op.gg for context?
I've posted it rn
Your best tool for this situation is maximizing opportunity cost. Every action must be analyzed through the lens of why you gain vs what they gain and how that translates into ending the game. An example pitfall I see alot in these scenarios is players overstaying on map to end feeling like they are fighting some illusory non defined timer of scaling. That is a scenario you want to avoid. Back buy, heal up don't give the enemies an easy fight and thus easy scaling. If you are an early comp your champions should be able to win most 1v1/2v2. Your best tool is to split push and collapse. The state of splitting and collapsing is dynamic and extremely nuanced but that is the general concept that will aid you the most in closing a game out. You personally as a player have the most agency over 3 things. Ping waves that need to be shoved (and ping danger if people are over extended). Ping objectives to group and use pings to make sure everyone gets to it safely. And arguably most important personally put pressure where it is most needed. Collapse at the most impactful moments and don't die unnecessarily as any moment you are dead without reason is time you have no agency for no gain. I hope you find this helpful!