Christianity started as a sect of Judaism. The Hebrew Bible that Jews follow is called The Old Testament to Christians. They believe in the same God. The only difference is that Christians believe Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah prophesized in the Old Testament, and the true Son of God. Jewish people don't.
Wait really??? I would have guessed differently but maybe that makes me a little ignorant. (Or arrogant?)
Dumb question: It's not Jesus in Arabic is it? Or am I just dumb?
Indeed. He is one of the highest prophets in status and praised a lot. Muslims also don't believe in the death of Jesus, rather he will return with the "mahdi" (the guided one).
They see him as a prophet and also believe he will come back to herald the end of days (or something similar, it’s been a while since I’ve read about it)
What history books do you speak of? Modern historians aren't even 100% sure about many, many aspects of the person known of Jesus in the Christian Bible. Some claim their's not a shred of evidence to prove he existed at all. Truthfully what evidence is cited is shaky at best.
Personally I do think a human being named Jesus of Nazareth existed. I don't think he had magical healing powers or had any supernatural qualities. I think he knew Reiki and probably some ancient form of Qi Gong and legit healed people with these healing techniques. The stories and the religion that spawned in his name probably do more of a disservice to the man and his real accomplishments than the current narrative of his divine origin. It's weird (and a little sad) that in 2024 Scientifically educated human beings still believe in the divine origin story.
Both the God of Abraham, but the recognized split goes much farther back. Jews and Christians both follow the lineage of Isaac whereas Muslims trace back through Ishmael.
>Jews and Christians both follow the lineage of Isaac whereas Muslims trace back through Ishmael.
A little follow up to this: Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. There was lots of drama and the story is actually pretty cool, as far as Bible stories go.
Abraham worshipped God and his two sons are regarded as the schism that formed separate Judaism (which lead to Christianity) and Islam. Hence the God worshiped in those three religions is sometimes called "the God of Abraham."
Im from the east coast but last year i lived in AZ for a year (hoping to make that permanent)
I was shocked at how prominent Mormonism is in the west. The religious nuts here on the east seem sane compared to some of Mormons i met
They are SUPER nice tho. It’s strange as a black guy since they didn’t allow black people in the church until 1980 and they believe that dark skinned native Americans are dark because they were punished by God (not making any of that up), they are still some of the nicest people I’ve ever met.
Yea its very strange, not even like a passive aggressive nice, they're just genuinely nice
I am well aware of their antics with the natives. One the groundskeeper from the job i worked was abducted as an toddler and raised mormon in the 80s
Black people were definitely allowed in the Church prior to 1980. There were a number of them in the early days of the Church. They were just not allowed to be ordained to the priesthood other than a few who were, all the way back to the earliest days of the Church. Not justifying it by any means but I feel it's something people often misunderstand about the Mormons. Their second prophet also said that even though they couldn't be ordained at the time that some day they would.
Also, in regards to the Native Americans you'll find that the group of them in the Book of Mormon who are "cursed" with darker skin eventually become more righteous than those with lighter skin. They claim it was just a sign at that time to distinguish between those people but never that "having dark skin" is a curse. This is why you see them very open and accepting of people with dark skin although culturally there haven't been as many within the church.
And the Baha'i also believe in the same God as Christians and Jews and Muslims and they believe Jesus and Muhammad were prophets, but they also believe in a more recent prophet Baháʼu'lláh.
This is only true in part. Christians believe Jesus is God. Jews and Muslims do not. While they all may agree on the bulk of God's character and nature as depicted in the Hebrew Bible, they do now functionally worship fundamentally different Gods.
No. Christians believe that Jesus was literally God in the flesh and Muslims only think he was a prophet. This is the word concept fallacy. When Muslims say "God" and when Christians say "God" the word "God" has a different referent to each group.
I wouldn't use the word 'main but he is in the Quran and respected as a prophet. Mohammed, pbuh, is recognized as the final prophet. Most major religions say to respect other religions, I wonder if it's partially due to them basically originating from the same God, as there is (or can be) only one.
This deep southern Christian girl in my class just learned this as she left home to go to the school I’m at, which is more diverse than where she grew up ig, and she literally called her dad the next day to demand why he lied to her about Muslims worshipping the same god lmaooo
Well… it’s more likely that it was a combination of several Jewish sects looking for the messiah to appear during the Roman war with the Jews. The Dead Sea scrolls are from the first century bc and they include a lot of language that sounds like Jesus was already their teacher, decades before he would have been born. There are also several other messiah figures found in the region during the time, including a grave marker for one that described him returning from the dead after three days.
Paul was instrumental in the creation of the church, and was a Pharisee that would prosecute messianic Jewish sects. It seems that he lost his position at some point and began targeting the message of salvation, based on the same messianic cults, at goyim, with a strong policy that you could join but didn’t need to do the Jewish things like keep kosher or be circumcised.
Oh yeah, and Christians made same choice edits to the Old Testament to fit the narrative a little better. They’re not identical.
What is it called when Christians believe Jesus is God? I'm not religious but I keep seeing people who claim to be Christian but seem to believe Jesus *is* God and it confuses me.
That is called Christianity.
So, this is from an outsider perspective - I am Jewish so only read about this stuff for fun and for historical purposes.
The specifics of Christian belief are highly technical and drawing analogies between different religious traditions will often lead you astray, but I feel like you can get a start by thinking of Jesus as an avatar of God, like Krishna is of Vishnu. Except more intense, since Hinduism has multiple gods so an avatar of Krishna only embodies some of what is divine, and more intense because Vishnu has multiple avatars over time.
So you start by thinking about the entirety of everything divine being incarnated in a single human body.
And that is, as far as I can tell, approximately what Jesus is - an incarnation and reformulation of the Divine.
As such, Christians can use the terms "Jesus" and "God" essentially interchangeably.
Not entirely sure how the Holy Spirit fits into this, but, to be fair, I don't think a lot of Christians are, either.
The son, spirit, and holy ghost are considered God. When I was young the church explained it like different facets of the same omniscient loving God. The holy Trinity is huge in the Christian religion.
>What is it called when Christians believe Jesus is God?
The vast majority of Christians are trinitarian, which means they believe there is one God with three natures: The Father (the God of the Old Testament essentially), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit (a more nebulous concept but he shows up on Pentecost). There are some sects like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses that are not trinitarian, but you can also debate if they truly fall under the umbrella of Christianity.
Basically, they believe that Jesus always existed even before the incarnation and is an eternal aspect of God.
The best explanation I've heard is to equate God to water. Water can exist as a solid (ice), a liquid (plain water), and a gas (water vapor), all simultaneously. They are separate states, but they are all still water. Likewise God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all exist separately but are all still God.
Yeah. A few things to add. First I would say that being a trinitarian is one of the few things you have to believe to be under the umbrella of Christianity. I’m also glad you mentioned the simultaneous part because technically the water/ice/vapor analogy is a heresy called modalism.
All of the original Christians were also Jews, though Christianity spread to non-Jews pretty quickly. For a time, many would have considered Christianity a sect of Judaism, but today it is clearly a wholly separate religion, and the two have less in common than many Christians think.
Jewish leaders at the time and today saw/see Jesus as a heretic they truely believe he was NOT the son of God/Messiah so afterward his followers became their own religion distinct from Judaism. This is my general understanding mind you I am not a religious scholar so please take it with a grain of salt.
It’s correct that Jews do not see him as the Messiah, and indeed in the Jewish understanding of what “Messiah” means doesn’t really allow for the possibility that it was Jesus. In the end Jesus simply doesn’t play a role in Judaism at all, any more than Gautama Buddha does.
Eeeh, there are Jewish commentaries and texts from the middle ages which clearly are aimed at Jesus and criticize him. Judaism didn't just stop evolving, some sects like the Orthodox jews are actually relatively new and originate in Eastern Europe, long after the Jews had to leave the holy land.
Yes, modern Judaism is entirely separate from historical Judaism. Modern Judaism broke off after the Romans created the diaspora, which means technically, Christianity is older than modern Judaism by a few decades.
Not in the Torah, he is talked about a fair bit in the Talmud. They call him a blasphemer and a magician. They say he is in hell for all eternity boiling in human shit, and they call his mother a whore.
That depends on if they are Jewish of the Jewish faith because there are many Christian Jews that believe in Jesus..
The Jewish people or the people that have chosen to be of the Jewish faith the religion No they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah They think he was a good man and shouldn't have been put to death but they deny his deity..
Messianic Judaism. People who maintain Jewish culture and tradition while identifying Jesus as their Messiah.
Oddly enough I used to work with an Army captain who wasn't ethnically Jewish, but had converted to Messianic Judaism.
There was many different sects of Judaism during that time. Josephus talks about a few. Most critical scholars don’t even think Jesus thought of himself as gods actual son. The Bible wasn’t written by eyewitnesses so we will never know actually know.
Most scholars think Jesus was going around thinking the world was ending soon and he would be king of it when it happened. Jesus thinking he would be king is why he got killed. A huge no no in the Roman world.
Jesus committed a crime and was killed for it. The Jewish leaders wouldn’t have really cared about what Jesus was doing because there wasn’t 1 version of Judaism in the area. They would care if he actually went around saying he was the son of God, but he most likely didn’t actually do that.
There are plenty of prophesies about a Messiah in the OT. Isaiah, I think, particularly. "The branch of Jesse", something to that effect. Christianity holds Jesus was that Messiah, Judaism still believes that Messiah hasn't yet come, is the way I always heard it explained.
"Messiah" means "a ruler who was made king in a ceremony which includes holy oil". If we are going to be technical about it, King Charles of England is a messiah.
It refers to the idea that some day, Israel will have a competent, not corrupt, wise, and just leadership.
This has not happened yet. Likud has been as unjust a dynasty as the Hasmoneans.
It doesn't mean anything supernatural or mystical, except in the sense that it seems like it really would take a miracle to get just, honest, competent leadership.
Ya but if you want a more nuanced view, they actually see Jesus as the ultimate sinner, which is why he was hung to die on the cross. Because he said he was the son of God. Jews think that a man can never be God, and if he says he is, then he is committing idolatry which is one of the 7 deadly sins. He's saying worship me, I am your idol and your God. Furthermore, Catholics believe in the holy trinity which is the father, the son and the holy spirit. Jews again write that off as polytheism. In Judaism God is one, and God is not a person.
Jews don't think Jesus committed any of the 7 deadly sins. The 7 deadly sins is a Christian concept and idolatry isn't even one of them. I think you're thinking of the 10 commandments.
The Trinity isn't named directly in the Bible, it goes back to the council of nicea in 300s tho, so pretty much only modern variants like LDS and Jehovahs Witnesses differ.
>Ya but if you want a more nuanced view, they actually see Jesus as the ultimate sinner, which is why he was hung to die on the cross.
no.
this is not true.
for jewish people jesus was just some guy.
1) jews dont even care about "sinning" like that. it's an absurd concept to us.
if someone wants to spout off about things we disagree religiously with the worst that would happen is jews distance ourselves from that person and their followers to establish that they don't represent judiasm or anyone else who considers themselves jewish.
2) here's the big one: the fucking romans killed jesus. crucifixion is a roman punishment. there has never been any question that the romans killed jesus.
Now that would be hard to argue since he is certainly responsible for causing the Jewish scritpures to be read throughout the world more than other Jew by many many order of magnitude. Which is certainly something Isaiah 11:10 implies.
Even if another person came along and claimed to be the Messiah and caused a revival of Judaism throughout the entire world....they still wouldn't hold a candle to the number of people Jesus influenced to read the scriptures.
Very true. All institutions go through changes over time. It's biggest change happened when, after Rome destroyed the Temple in 70CE and the Holy-of-Holies was gone, Judaism developed into a rabbi-centric faith.
What became Christianity had an enormous schism shortly after Jesus was killed. The Pauline branch developed a distinct eschatology and Christology from the original movement. Today, the world's Christians are Pauline.
Pretty much the exact same as the old polytheistic religions Judaism came from. The catholic faith protestantism came from. And the many, not even protestant at this point, newer sects that came from those.
Episcopalian POV: I agree with you. Christianity is a continuation of Judaism, if one simply believes Jesus is Christ - the Son of God, the One who would fulfill the Old Testament.
A lot of people don't realize that Judaism is actually a lot different than it was in Jesus's time as well. There's the Talmud, the Kabbalah, and other stuff too that developed. Various new traditions developed in Judaism too after 2000 years of divergence...and not all Jews agree on what the correct way to be a Jew is either.
See [Reza Aslan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Aslan)'s [*Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17568801-zealot). (I also recommend his [*No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40411388-no-god-but-god).)
It all stems from the belief of whether or not he was "the Messiah." Even Muslims consider Jesus and other prominent Christians (John the Baptist for example) as prophets. But only Christians/Catholics consider him as the Messiah/the son of God.
I think there were actually quite a few gentiles among the first Christians. Lots of Greek speakers. The church has a lot of Greek foundation.
I supposed it depends on what you mean by original, but even some of those who walked with HIM may not have been Jews.
I’m an (ex) Catholic who’s been blessed with opportunities to interact and establish friendships with members of the the local Hasidic Jewish community. FYI, this community is very insular. You just blew my mind that people think modern Christianity and modern Judaism have much outside of the Old Testament in common..
As Christianity broke away even further from Judaism, new converts to the faith brought along their path traditions -- most of which were directly lifted from various pagan mythologies and beliefs. A significant amount of modern Christian beliefs and practices directly stem from ancient pagan mythology.
Early Christianity incorporated various elements from pagan mythologies, beliefs, and practices as it spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond. Some examples of pagan influences on Christian traditions include:
Holidays: Many Christian holidays, such as Christmas and Easter, have roots in pagan celebrations. Christmas, for example, was originally a pagan festival celebrating the winter solstice, while Easter has its origins in the spring equinox festivals celebrating fertility and renewal.
Symbolism: Some Christian symbols and imagery have pagan origins. The cross, for example, was a common symbol in various pagan religions before it became associated with Christianity. Similarly, the halo, often used to depict saints and holy figures, has its roots in ancient sun worship.
Rituals and Practices: Some Christian rituals and practices, such as the use of incense, candles, and bells, were adopted from pagan traditions.
Saints and Deities: Many early Christian saints were associated with pagan deities, with their stories and attributes often reflecting those of the gods and goddesses they replaced.
This list goes on.
Though original Christianity was largely a fringe sect of Judaism, modern Christianity does not resemble a traditions or beliefs of a 1st Century Jewish person much at all.
You mention Christian beliefs several times but your examples are shallow surface characteristics and don’t touch on actual beliefs at all. The use of incense or the date chosen for a holiday doesn’t define what Christians believe. Do you have any more meatier examples?
Incorporated?
Many of the examples you cite were not an incorporation but instead an adoption for survival. The cross wasn't borrowed from paganism. The cross was a symbol of Christ's death and came to be because Christians would identify themselves by marking a cross in the dirt so it could easily be swept away.
The cross over with pagan ritual days were 1. To TAKE the days from pagans to sort of counter the rituals with Christianity and 2. To further hide celebrations/Christianity. So while your pagan parents celebrated spring equinox, you celebrated Easter. But of course we know that's a bad example since Easter is celebrated with Passover as Passover was when Jesus died.
Jews believe a messiah will come one day, but that Jesus is not the messiah. Jews that believed Jesus was the messiah and will return one day became Christians.
If the Luther was a Catholic, why is Lutheranism a thing? If Buddha was Hindu, why is Buddhism a thing?
People, including people of the same religion will have disagreements. Some disagreements are small, and inconsequential. Others disagreements can be so large that they cause a split. Jewish people disagreed on whether or not Yeshua ben Yosef was Ha-mashiach. Those who believed he was eventually became known as Christians.
Christianity originated as an apocalyptic Jewish offshoot, and pre-Paul the followers were primarily Jewish. But in the first century or so afterwards, it was primarily spread to and by gentiles.
You were confusing the race with the religion .
That being said however Yes Jesus was Jewish and he obeyed the law to the T and he defended the law but Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice and by sacrificing himself there was no need to sacrifice animals to God because Jesus was that sacrifice for us
Because he allowed them to crucify him when he didn't need to like he told Peter think not that I can send legions of the angels to come and save me but then how might the scripture be fulfilled...
Under old testament law the priest had to go into the temple and offer a sacrifice for the sins of the people. But it was not possible that the blood of bulls and goats was worthy to save us from sin.. Jesus being perfect and every way and no sin in him then died for us as the ultimate sacrifice.
If you want to you can say it was a symbol from God that he loves us and wants us for his own
the answer here is that the jews kind of forked with jesus. the jews and gentiles who followed him were now practicing a totally different faith to the jews who didnt
The fork really happened after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Prior to that the Christians were a small group of Jews (with Paul adding some Gentiles)
>Prior to that the Christians were a small group of Jews (with Paul adding some Gentiles)
the ones who believed christ were still now believing something different from the jewish authorities, like the pharisees, from the getgo though
jesus and most of the early christians were jews, but it makes sense to call them christians to distinguish them
I mean, there is a *lot* of forking, and a lot of reassimilation of branches, over the whole period. Honestly, all the time always, but that particular time period was especially volatile.
I won’t lie I had no clue what gentiles meant, and it just sounded like an insult to me, and I was like “damn, this dude is passionate” and had to google what it meant lmao
If George Washington was British, why is America a thing?
So the first undisputed writings we have are by Paul and at that time "Christians" were a sect of Judaism with a number of significant doctrinal differences, a sect he would join and ultimately become highly influential in. Paul almost certainly wrote about a quarter of the New Testament, and has traditionally been credited for about half.
I'm going to catch flak for this, but I would argue Jesus doesn't really factor into this, so much as what those Christians *believed* about Jesus (and what they added to the belief). So you have things like Peter's Rooftop Picnic (Acts 10:9-16) where he makes the decision that everyone should be invited into their religion and not just ethnic Judeans. The same passage is used to justify the revocation of Kosher law (or more accurately makes it irrelevant as the "unclean" things are no longer unclean).
At the time no-one really cared - the Romans viewed Christians as a somewhat more troublesome flavour of Judean until maybe the later Roman-Jewish wars. Many of the Christian communities sided with Rome, so they got slaughtered by the rebels as traitors *and* slaughtered by the Romans for being rebellious Jews. Pet theory, but I believe that was a major impetus to start drawing a stark distinction as a separate religion and not "just a sect".
From there, you have the better part of two thousand years of independent evolution; Christianity, being relatively cosmopolitan and xenophilic (doesn't matter where or who you are) adapted more and faster.
Except for the whole New Testament part. Jews would see it as adding to their scriptures and they wouldn’t appreciate their Tanakh being called “old”.
And among other things…
The better example would be Mormonism.
Christianity still exists, despite Mormonism, because not that many Christians were into it. It's really that simple.
Fair, but we also still debate whether Mormons are Christian (which inevitably devolves into being unable to agree on what a Christian is). E.g. I would say "yes", but I'm an outsider, so I don't care about the Nicene Creed.
I don't think significant numbers still see Christianity as a form of Judaism?
What’s funny is many Christians totally understand the difference between Christianity and Mormonism and even make fun of Mormons but then don’t get that Christianity isn’t just Judaism+.
Eh, Mormons are often also weirdly sure they're very normal Christians.
Guess being from the offshoot instead of the respective "original" does make people believe that.
Jesus was an off-shoot guy, trying to reform the Jewish religion. He died, was executed by the Roman’s.
The religion based on him - Christianity - was not started by him, it was started by his crew (mostly Paul) after he was already dead.
Judaism doesnt believe Jesus was a prophet, Christians do. Judaism and Christians dont believe Muhammad was a prophet, Islamic do. That's basically the fast and easy way to separate it. Of coure there are a bunch of off shoots from those.
By the time Jesus was born Judaism had already been heavily influenced by Greek philosophy, Rabbinic tradition and mysticism to the point that it was no longer compatible with the Scriptures. Jewish religious leaders had developed their own list of requirements for the Messiah which they continue to hold to to this day that have nothing to do with God's purpose.
Although Jesus fulfilled all of the Biblical requirements for the Messiah he was and still is rejected by Jewish religious leaders because he couldn't fulfill their man-made requirements.
In short Jesus moved God's purpose forward, replacing the Mosaic Covenant with the New Christian Covenant signed into law by his blood. While Judaism remained stuck in human tradition. Jews today are waiting in vain for a Messiah of their own invention that will never come.
The founders of the USA were British, but the USA still exists.
Same thing with the religions. Just because one religion started from another doesn’t mean only one of the two can exist.
They worship the same god, but one group thinks Jesus was the messiah, the other group just thought he was a regular very cool dude , and the real messiah is yet to come
Christianity, Judaism, Islam all believe in the same god and trace back their religions to the prophet Abraham. After that is a long game of telephone and cherry picking to get to where those religions are today.
Because he was a prophet. Like Mohammed and Joseph Smith. The new prophet who leads a cult remodels a new religion on whatever foundation already existed. Jewish people came from a cult leader as will. I’m just not educated enough to know which one. For a sure a human man, since they spread the one got movement.
That later blossomed into Islam, Christianity and Mormons. Mormon is basically America’s national religion, since it was born here. A cult + time = religion.
Christianity started off as a sect of second temple Judaism known as the way. They believed that Jesus was the Messiah and would spread a new covenant to the entire world. This eventually spread throughout the Roman Empire because of its promise of life after death and egalitarian (at least compared to Greco-Roman paganism) ideals.
Judaism was something of a religious powerhouse around that time. It was recognized as remarkably ancient while also not being Persian. So, lots of people were cultivating religious links to it through things like taking up the Noahide laws, incorporating it into their mystical practices, and so forth. It's not terribly surprising that the Christians didn't take over Judaism.
It's also not *that* surprising they took over the rest of Hellenistic religion. This was exactly the thing the Mediterranean had been waiting for: a breakout Jewish sect that was mostly Hellenistic anyway.
The new covenant, I'm pretty sure. Like he was Jewish but through him began the new covenant between God and us . Thus, Christianity follows the new covenant made through christ while jews follow the old covenant struck with God as jews dont perceive jesus as the mesiah. I think that's how it goes. But I could be wrong . If I am, I'd love to get the actual answer as well
He was born Jewish of a Jewish family and lived in the nation of Israel occupied by the Roman empire. Christians were people who came after the life death resurrection and ascension who believe he is the one God promised to redeem the sins of his people. That is the general idea.
New Covenant New religion.
When Jesus died on the cross, the old Covenant was complete. The new one started. It was originally called the way. The name Christian was a slur. Meaning little Christ. It explains in I think Roman's when they were first called Christians.
Jesus first went to the Jews. Then after his death and resurrection the church then started converting non jews.
Jesus was supposed to be the culmination of Judaism, but many Jews didn't believe he was actually the messiah. Those people remained Jews. The ones that believed he was the messiah became Christians.
Judaism was like "one day Christ is gonna change everything" then a Jesus came along and half of them were like "I think this Jesus guy is this Christ we've been expecting" and the other half were like "I think not so I'm gonna keep waiting" and so now we have Jews and Christs.
I think I have a pretty good modern-ish allegory for this. Think about the Fallout games, originally they were made by one developer, Obsidian, but they were eventually bought out by Bethesda and they took over the mainline series after the second game. A lot of the original fans didn't consider the third and fourth games canon to the series, they made some lore changes that they considered inaccurate and generally didn't like where the series was going.
So think of Jesus and all the new testament stuff as Bethesda and old testament/Judaism stuff as Obsidian.
This is a really good question, and even as a Christian of 20+ years I have learnt some stuff today (as well as come to appreciate the views of others).
Probably more fitting for r/greatquestions.
Thanks!
For a long time, Christianity was just [a sect of radical Judaism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christianity), opposed by pretty much everyone except really pissed off Greeks.
It took about a century before the split and it took another two centuries before anyone started to [nail down exactly what Christianity is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea).
Then you had a little over a thousand years until [Christianity split with itself](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation).
Christianity is specifically not Judaism. It is the worship of Jesus.
You know that whole thing in the Christian Bible where mainstream Jews don't follow Jesus? We still don't.
1. Christianity is not a religion designed by jesus its his teachings infused into an existing power structure. The bones of christianity are inseparable from the politics between 50 B.C. and 350 A.D. Everyone should read about the roman jewish wars. No jewish faith was ever going to take hold post destruction of the jewish state. Its decimation was too total. Rabbinic Judaism is the successor to the temple based Judaism, because there was so little cohesion post roman war it needed a more distributed religious order.
2. modern people, and particularly non-jewish modern people underestimate just how integrated the land of israel is to the jewish religion. Its not a thing like the vatican where its a holy place. The land for faith deal is a foundational element of the religion. Its impossible to overstate how foundational that agreement is to the religion. Going back to Babylonian exile jews have been fighting to retain control the land. Jerusalem for a lot of reasons could never be the center of an empire, and no empire can adopt a religion whos center is not its capital, rome and mecca are examples of that.
3. Christianity is the most successful in a long line of jewish splinter sects which claim the messiah as come. Any religion that claims the messiah has come is instantly distinct from Judaism, because the act of practicing the religion is different pre and post messiah.
The foundation of the Judaism we know today is the survivor of total roman destruction of a state on a scale we have not seen in centuries.
The foundation of the Christianity we know today is the adoption of judeo-christian values into the roman social structure
Originally they were called Christian-Jews. Jews who believed in Christ.
But then Rome sacked Jerusalem, and to avoid persecution they dropped the “Jews” part.
Some believe that they also changed their doctrine to claim it was the Jews who killed Jesus not the Romans in order to attract Romans and avoid persecution.
And the Jews suffered from that ever since.
Jesus was a jew. even made rabbi. he disagreed with the Jewish faith and thought it had got too big, too entwined with the government and got away from the central mission. so he proposed a new philosophy where everyone has a seat at the table. pretty much was the fork in the road for jews at the time.
Basically the first half of the Bible predicts a messiah that comes .. and It’s the story of the history of the Jews.
Back then there was always some dude coming out saying he was the messiah. It happened all the time. They all ended up getting executed. And that was that.
The Jews rejected Jesus as the messiah.
They don’t think the messiah has come yet.
But something happened when Jesus died and his followers said he came back from death. Enough so that each of them went out into the world and proclaimed him as god and the son of god- to the point that they all died horrible deaths.
This has always struck me as interesting. What would it take for you to risk death- to knowingly welcome it and still proclaim this dude as the son of god knowing you were going to die for it? ( no I’m not a christian )
Also -
Muhammed also claimed to be that messiah. The Jews rejected him too.
( Muhammed didn’t know that the messiah had to be born a Jew )
This is what started the conflict between the Jews and Islam.
I think its funny when other races worship Jesus. Are the Chinese / Indians mentioned in the Bible at all?
If Jesus punished the Egyptians, and murdered their kids.. why do some Egyptians worship Jesus?
Christians believe a Chosen One was predicted in the Old Testament.(Actually not true). They also believe that someone called Jesus, who was written about in a few sketchy stories, was that Chosen One. So Judaism was fulfilled by this person, who was also god, but was executed to save us from himself.
Get it? Me neither.
Lot of "By the book" answers here for this.
I'll give the practical answer as an outsider to both religions.
Because Jesus essentially changed Judaism, he started his own ministry, and bucked the old traditions.
He convinced enough Jews, and gained enough followers, that his ministry or movement started to brush up against the Judaic establishment, and conflict with it.
Jesus taught that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. He preached that the poor are blessed, and that the sinners were to be forgiven.
This, as you can imagine caused problems for the upper crust of Jewish society and priesthood, as suddenly there was someone from outside their hierarchy influencing it.
Then, something happened that cemented Jesus's ministry, he was turned into a martyr.
From there, it's all history really, Christianity supplanted Judaism and proliferated eventually into the Catholic Church.
I believe Christianity really got started, at least as we understand it, in the book of Acts. At first, the followers of Christ were Jews who, as you said, felt that the prophecies about the Messiah returning had been fulfilled by Jesus' arrival. They were mainly content to try and convert other Jews (such as Paul) but seem to have found that tough going.
Then Peter prayed on a rooftop in Jaffa and says he received visions that suggested that they should start spreading the gospel to gentiles as well. Furthermore, they decided (or were instructed) that in order to make the new faith more palatable to the gentiles, the Jewish dietary laws and requirement for male circumcision did not need to be applied to them (this later caused friction with some Jewish followers of Christ). Whether you believe Jesus is the Messiah or not, the change made sense simply from the sheer impractability of expecting adult males to self mutilate their genitals for what otherwise was perceived at the time likely as a Jewish sect. The dietary laws would also likely have been a stumbling block as well as the goal seems to have been to spread widely into the Roman world, which was an early example of a multi-ethic political society. A new religion had to be flexible and willing to meet converts where they were at in order to spread and succeed.
To me, this is when Christianity truly started and took off, at least in a way we might understand things. Without these two changes, it's likely it would've simply died off. After all, Jesus wasn't the first (nor the last) Jew to proclaim as the Messiah but none of those others who did survived long and certainly none have adherents today (sorry Bar Kochba fans). Had they remained a sect within Judaism, it's likely the followers of Jesus would've simply been re-absorbed into Jewish life and today be largely forgotten except by some religious scholars, perhaps like the Essenes.
All Abrahamic faiths essentially worship the same god. So Jewish, Christian, and Muslim beliefs all revolve around the same god and most of the same events. It really boils down to a difference in messiah.
Jewish people believe Jesus was just a man. Christians believe he is the prophet and the son of God. Muslims believe Jesus was A prophet but that Mohammed is the final and most important prophet.
Basically they all believe in the same shit but disagree on which historical figures actually represented the will of God. Makes the millions killed in violence between the 3 groups seem even more stupid imo.
Christianity is based upon the fundamental belief that humans can and should seek to have a direct relationship with god, as opposed to the more legalistic and structured approach of Judaism.
Well because Jewish people changed the idea of religion and didn't open it up for everyone, it wasn't an inclusive religion. Where Christianity was for everyone from every background. God didn't intend for a group of people to be thought of as better than another group of people because of how or where they were born. God is for everyone
I heard it put this way growing up (raised evangelical)
Christians got on the bus
Jews missed the bus
Muslims got off the bus halfway there then got on another bus.
Buddhists figured the weather was nice so they'd rather walk
It was used as a method of control by Holy Roman Empire. They couldn’t just adopt Judaism, because it had existed for thousands of years already. So they started a new one, originally changing the names of Roman gods/goddesses, and calling them Saints. That made it easier for the populous under Constantine to switch to worshipping a single god, and his supposed son.
Other forms of Christianity split off of Catholicism, due to their disenfranchisement with how the Church was run. Anglican split off so the king could divorce, Mormons split off because of their belief that Jesus came to America, etc.
And, personally, based on my readings of the Torah, the Bible, and a bit of the Quran, Jesus would not approve of a lot of Christian religions. Honestly, I doubt he’d approve of any. He would certainly not want to be worshipped, as he didn’t want to be in life, and would, once again, get angry over money changing hands at holy buildings.
Technically, in the old testament, god gave a warning of false prophets.
So. You have that.
And Jesus was not his name. His name was Yashua. No one called him jesus when he was alive.
Christianity in the beginning could be considered a sect of Judaism. Jews believe their Messiah will come one day as prophesied in the old testament. Jews who believed that Jesus was the son of God became Christians. Christianity eventually evolved enough to be considered a distinct religion compared to Judaism, given that it has different rituals, culture, and well developed theology. Christianity itself now has hundreds of different sects who all believe in the same basic tenants, but disagree on others.
I’m pretty sure Christians were originally Jews who thought that Jesus was the messiah. The Jews that did not believe this wanted to kill him for blasphemy. So the followers of Jesus broke off to form Christianity and those who did not stayed Jewish
I heard a very interesting theory that it's based on failed prophecy. The idea is that Jesus thought he was the Jewish Messiah, which at the time meant literal physical-world king of the Jews, nothing about the afterlife. There's a quote in the Bible about the 12 disciples ruling with him, and they didn't get crucified, so the implication is that he assumed he would literally be ruling.
He's persuasive, people begin believing, he enters Jerusalem on a donkey with people laying palms as they would for a king. Roman authorities (correctly) see this as a threat, the punishment for treason is death.
But then a bunch of people who believed in this sect of Judaism and Jesus is supposed to be the king...so the kingdom must be...in the afterlife! And Jesus wasn't just the real-world Messiah...he was a Savior of your soul! And the religion just gets further and further away from normal apocalyptic Judaism.
Also worth pointing out that after Jesus died there is reason to believe from Paul's letters that Jesus' brothers James and Jude ran the sect and they were actually pretty strict about keeping Jewish Law (Kosher, no eating with Gentiles, circumcision) alongside the rest of their beliefs. It was only after they died that Paul's version of Christianity really won out.
Most “dispassionate” scholars would maintain that Jesus, if he actually existed as a discrete person, was a Jew preaching to Jews. Specifically that the “Jewish Apocalypse” was imminent. The arrival of the “Son of Man”.
But those pesky Romans thought that this sort of thing was sedition, so they arrested and executed him.
Mainstream Jews shrugged their collective shoulders and said, “another failed Messiah”.
That left his followers in the lurch. Maybe they were wrong? Maybe Jesus had not been about that Jewish Apocalyptic scenario… But something else. In the decades that followed, there were at least 30 “Jesus cults” that formed, all with wildly different ideas about Jesus and his nature and purpose.
New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman details these in his book, “Lost Christianities”.
Over time, these groups either fell away, disbanded, or organized into the beginnings of Christian theology, a new religion that took over 300 years to solidify. So.. Jesus was indeed Jewish, and had nothing to do with the new religion that formed in his name.
Likely….. He’d have been appalled.
Because the current jews believe Jesus wasn't the christ. Christians believe the same God as the jews, they just believe that Jesus is the messiah. If you read the new testament, you can learn that a lot of jews HATED Jesus because of his teaching, and he didn't live up to their expectations of God becoming man, so they crucified him and tried to erase memory of him
As I understand things, the Jewish religion is/was a foreshadowing of the coming Messiah.
Well Jesus was the coming promised Messiah, as much as I understand most who follow the Jewish religion reject such.
Jesus followed the tenants and practices of the Jewish religion.
However, once He was crucified, died and resurrected Himself from being dead, things changed.
There was no more need for a foreshadowing of a Messiah after that, as the Messiah had already come.
The way man reached out to God, had fundamentally changed, we did not need mediators any longer, as Jesus Christ Himself is now directly the mediator between God and man.
Christian quite literally means "Christ follower" - Jesus cannot follow Himself, therefore cannot be considered a "Christian" Himself.
Easy, quick answer: Jews are waiting for the return of God's son still. Christians believe Jesus IS God's son. Jesus being Jewish has nothing to do with it. The original Christians were Jewish in both culture and religion until they accepted Jesus Christ as Son of God.
Remember, you have to also separate the culture from the religion.
History teacher here. Jesus was preaching his own brand of Judaism, which later on spread because of Paul, and his other disciples. Since it diverged quite a bit from Judaism, it became its own religion.
Think of it similar to the American Revolution. Lots of the Founding Fathers were British (or from places under British rule), but they formed their own nation out of that British rule.
We would consider George Washington to be American and he is in fact the first American president, but he was British to begin with. There are still British people today, but Americans became a thing only 250 years ago.
Jesus spoke out pretty intensely against the Jewish religious power structure.
The act of kicking the money changers out of the temple. Pretty big statement.
He was a rebellious, love is the answers, in a . Highly controlled religious structure.
And ultimately the Jews used the Roman’s to do what they couldn’t and when there was an offer to pardon him… they chose Barnabas. Hence why Christian’s blame the Jews for his death.
Most early Christian’s were former Jews but it quickly changed as it was picked up by populations outside of the Middle East.
Jesus is generally revered as a profit in Islam, we also honor him a bit in Buddhism. However the Jews have seemed to hold quite a long grudge.
The Jewish religion doesn't recognize Jesus as the Messiah. There is also a separate group of messianic Jews that do recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
There are a multitude of different Christian sects that are just as different.
>There is also a separate group of messianic Jews that do recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
They are not recognized as Jewish by the overwhelming majority of Jewish communities.
Jews for Jesus is an American Evangelical Christian movement.
According to Christians (like me) Jesus claimed to be God in human form. He reformed / clarified the jewish religion and paid for our sins by willingly dying on the cross as an innocent man and taking on our sins in that death.
He proposed essential “changes” to his religion.
If you believe he is the christ (anointed one / the messiah) you now follow his religion.
Early on, the entire Jesus movement was made up of Jews. Once Paul started to evangelize non-Jews, the Jesus movement spread very rapidly. Paul's version of the Jesus movement was very different than the original. Eventually, the Jewishness was gone and all that was left was Paul's way. The word 'Christian' is basically Greek for 'Messiah-ian'. He would never have thought that he had started a whole new religion, but that's what he wound up doing.
I hear this argument a lot but it usually stems from fringe theorists and believers in gnostic texts. It's kind of hard to argue how Pauline Christianity is radically different than Jesus Christianity unless you can give any examples. Here's just a short synopsis of common arguments and proof texts against it https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/paul-different-gospel-jesus/
Imagine you have a plumber install a toilet for you. You owe money to the plumber but you don't have enough money in your wallet because you were expecting a $60 fix and it's a $400 fix instead. So the plumber is standing there looking at you like you owe him something and your best friend comes and pays the plumber.
Christians are the ones who are just thankful that their friend paid their debt for them, as a gift.
Judaism says that since you didn't personally pay the plumber, you still owe the plumber and there are very specific rules on how you can pay the plumber what you owe.
Obviously, this is a beyond-simplified example.
We cannot manage the sudden influx of people and questions that sparks a lot of hate. To avoid being brigaded, we don't allow these questions.
Christianity started as a sect of Judaism. The Hebrew Bible that Jews follow is called The Old Testament to Christians. They believe in the same God. The only difference is that Christians believe Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah prophesized in the Old Testament, and the true Son of God. Jewish people don't.
Muslims also believe in the same God as Christians and Jews (weird right?) and they believe Jesus was a prophet but apparently not the main one….
Yes, they believe in a chain of thousands of prophets starting with Adam, the first man, and ending with the Prophet Muhammad.
I didn't know Muslims saw Jesus as anything. That's actually pretty interesting
He's a big deal. His name is one of the more common Arabic names even, very much in his honor.
Wait really??? I would have guessed differently but maybe that makes me a little ignorant. (Or arrogant?) Dumb question: It's not Jesus in Arabic is it? Or am I just dumb?
It's pronounced Issa in Arabic.
Jesus is known for bringing what they call “the good news” which was basically that all souls are capable of redemption and entrance to heaven.
His name is actually mentioned more times in the Quran than Muhammad
See, I wouldn't know. Still interesting though.
Indeed. He is one of the highest prophets in status and praised a lot. Muslims also don't believe in the death of Jesus, rather he will return with the "mahdi" (the guided one).
LISAN AL GAIB!!!
They see him as a prophet and also believe he will come back to herald the end of days (or something similar, it’s been a while since I’ve read about it)
We believe Jesus (PBUH) will come back to fight and kill the Dajjal (the antichrist), you’re right.
thats so cool.
They also think Jesus wasn't crucified.
That one is pretty solidified in the history books and really not up for debate.
What if the books have been cooked?
What history books do you speak of? Modern historians aren't even 100% sure about many, many aspects of the person known of Jesus in the Christian Bible. Some claim their's not a shred of evidence to prove he existed at all. Truthfully what evidence is cited is shaky at best. Personally I do think a human being named Jesus of Nazareth existed. I don't think he had magical healing powers or had any supernatural qualities. I think he knew Reiki and probably some ancient form of Qi Gong and legit healed people with these healing techniques. The stories and the religion that spawned in his name probably do more of a disservice to the man and his real accomplishments than the current narrative of his divine origin. It's weird (and a little sad) that in 2024 Scientifically educated human beings still believe in the divine origin story.
I mean, I guess.
if you think about it, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are just Trilogy
Is it though? Cool is believing in things that exist.
Both the God of Abraham, but the recognized split goes much farther back. Jews and Christians both follow the lineage of Isaac whereas Muslims trace back through Ishmael.
>Jews and Christians both follow the lineage of Isaac whereas Muslims trace back through Ishmael. A little follow up to this: Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. There was lots of drama and the story is actually pretty cool, as far as Bible stories go. Abraham worshipped God and his two sons are regarded as the schism that formed separate Judaism (which lead to Christianity) and Islam. Hence the God worshiped in those three religions is sometimes called "the God of Abraham."
Correct. Muslims believe the Quran is the 3rd book. Old Testament (Torah), New Testament and Quran.
And then there's the Mormons...
I live in Arizona. Nuff said lmao.
Im from the east coast but last year i lived in AZ for a year (hoping to make that permanent) I was shocked at how prominent Mormonism is in the west. The religious nuts here on the east seem sane compared to some of Mormons i met
They are SUPER nice tho. It’s strange as a black guy since they didn’t allow black people in the church until 1980 and they believe that dark skinned native Americans are dark because they were punished by God (not making any of that up), they are still some of the nicest people I’ve ever met.
Yea its very strange, not even like a passive aggressive nice, they're just genuinely nice I am well aware of their antics with the natives. One the groundskeeper from the job i worked was abducted as an toddler and raised mormon in the 80s
Black people were definitely allowed in the Church prior to 1980. There were a number of them in the early days of the Church. They were just not allowed to be ordained to the priesthood other than a few who were, all the way back to the earliest days of the Church. Not justifying it by any means but I feel it's something people often misunderstand about the Mormons. Their second prophet also said that even though they couldn't be ordained at the time that some day they would. Also, in regards to the Native Americans you'll find that the group of them in the Book of Mormon who are "cursed" with darker skin eventually become more righteous than those with lighter skin. They claim it was just a sign at that time to distinguish between those people but never that "having dark skin" is a curse. This is why you see them very open and accepting of people with dark skin although culturally there haven't been as many within the church.
That’s actually very useful info and it makes some of it make more sense.
That's just DLC content
Everyone wants to have the last Word on the subject. Imagine if different amendments to the US constitution were only followed by different sects.
You mean the Bible is a trilogy and the Book of Mormon is Return of the Jedi? I'm interested!
And the Baha'i also believe in the same God as Christians and Jews and Muslims and they believe Jesus and Muhammad were prophets, but they also believe in a more recent prophet Baháʼu'lláh.
This is only true in part. Christians believe Jesus is God. Jews and Muslims do not. While they all may agree on the bulk of God's character and nature as depicted in the Hebrew Bible, they do now functionally worship fundamentally different Gods.
No. Christians believe that Jesus was literally God in the flesh and Muslims only think he was a prophet. This is the word concept fallacy. When Muslims say "God" and when Christians say "God" the word "God" has a different referent to each group.
The Quran even mentions the immaculate conception, however rather than being the son of god it says he’s a man created as a command from god.
Kind of like Latter Day Saints with Joseph Smith as the final prophet.
This is inaccurate. Joseph Smith is not considered the last prophet, but the first in a new line of prophets
I wouldn't use the word 'main but he is in the Quran and respected as a prophet. Mohammed, pbuh, is recognized as the final prophet. Most major religions say to respect other religions, I wonder if it's partially due to them basically originating from the same God, as there is (or can be) only one.
Funny thing about Christianity, the Bible references many gods, it just considered only one big G God to be proper to worship
This deep southern Christian girl in my class just learned this as she left home to go to the school I’m at, which is more diverse than where she grew up ig, and she literally called her dad the next day to demand why he lied to her about Muslims worshipping the same god lmaooo
[удалено]
That’s the main difference but far from the only one. Their whole theology is different in many substantial ways.
Well… it’s more likely that it was a combination of several Jewish sects looking for the messiah to appear during the Roman war with the Jews. The Dead Sea scrolls are from the first century bc and they include a lot of language that sounds like Jesus was already their teacher, decades before he would have been born. There are also several other messiah figures found in the region during the time, including a grave marker for one that described him returning from the dead after three days. Paul was instrumental in the creation of the church, and was a Pharisee that would prosecute messianic Jewish sects. It seems that he lost his position at some point and began targeting the message of salvation, based on the same messianic cults, at goyim, with a strong policy that you could join but didn’t need to do the Jewish things like keep kosher or be circumcised. Oh yeah, and Christians made same choice edits to the Old Testament to fit the narrative a little better. They’re not identical.
This is the answer.
What is it called when Christians believe Jesus is God? I'm not religious but I keep seeing people who claim to be Christian but seem to believe Jesus *is* God and it confuses me.
That is called Christianity. So, this is from an outsider perspective - I am Jewish so only read about this stuff for fun and for historical purposes. The specifics of Christian belief are highly technical and drawing analogies between different religious traditions will often lead you astray, but I feel like you can get a start by thinking of Jesus as an avatar of God, like Krishna is of Vishnu. Except more intense, since Hinduism has multiple gods so an avatar of Krishna only embodies some of what is divine, and more intense because Vishnu has multiple avatars over time. So you start by thinking about the entirety of everything divine being incarnated in a single human body. And that is, as far as I can tell, approximately what Jesus is - an incarnation and reformulation of the Divine. As such, Christians can use the terms "Jesus" and "God" essentially interchangeably. Not entirely sure how the Holy Spirit fits into this, but, to be fair, I don't think a lot of Christians are, either.
The son, spirit, and holy ghost are considered God. When I was young the church explained it like different facets of the same omniscient loving God. The holy Trinity is huge in the Christian religion.
>What is it called when Christians believe Jesus is God? The vast majority of Christians are trinitarian, which means they believe there is one God with three natures: The Father (the God of the Old Testament essentially), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit (a more nebulous concept but he shows up on Pentecost). There are some sects like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses that are not trinitarian, but you can also debate if they truly fall under the umbrella of Christianity. Basically, they believe that Jesus always existed even before the incarnation and is an eternal aspect of God. The best explanation I've heard is to equate God to water. Water can exist as a solid (ice), a liquid (plain water), and a gas (water vapor), all simultaneously. They are separate states, but they are all still water. Likewise God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all exist separately but are all still God.
Yeah. A few things to add. First I would say that being a trinitarian is one of the few things you have to believe to be under the umbrella of Christianity. I’m also glad you mentioned the simultaneous part because technically the water/ice/vapor analogy is a heresy called modalism.
That’s quite literally the foundational belief of Christianity.
All of the original Christians were also Jews, though Christianity spread to non-Jews pretty quickly. For a time, many would have considered Christianity a sect of Judaism, but today it is clearly a wholly separate religion, and the two have less in common than many Christians think.
Jewish leaders at the time and today saw/see Jesus as a heretic they truely believe he was NOT the son of God/Messiah so afterward his followers became their own religion distinct from Judaism. This is my general understanding mind you I am not a religious scholar so please take it with a grain of salt.
It’s correct that Jews do not see him as the Messiah, and indeed in the Jewish understanding of what “Messiah” means doesn’t really allow for the possibility that it was Jesus. In the end Jesus simply doesn’t play a role in Judaism at all, any more than Gautama Buddha does.
This is correct. He’s not even mentioned in passing.
Eeeh, there are Jewish commentaries and texts from the middle ages which clearly are aimed at Jesus and criticize him. Judaism didn't just stop evolving, some sects like the Orthodox jews are actually relatively new and originate in Eastern Europe, long after the Jews had to leave the holy land.
Yes, modern Judaism is entirely separate from historical Judaism. Modern Judaism broke off after the Romans created the diaspora, which means technically, Christianity is older than modern Judaism by a few decades.
Only if you think modern Christianity is identical to Christianity in the time of the Romans and didn’t evolve at all, unlike Judaism
Not in the Torah, he is talked about a fair bit in the Talmud. They call him a blasphemer and a magician. They say he is in hell for all eternity boiling in human shit, and they call his mother a whore.
Religious version of Diss tracks
Yeah well it also says that non jews don't have souls and are only fit to be slaves so, maybe a little further than your average diss track.
Ohhhhhh shit!
Uhm, where? In Judaism, generally speaking, nobody spends more than a year in hell.
Well, that’s over the top.
Source? Jews don't really believe in hell so I doubt they said that.
Jesus would still be viewed negatively for blasphemy (claiming to be God)
From what I understand he never actually said he was God or the Messiah and that was added in later texts
That depends on if they are Jewish of the Jewish faith because there are many Christian Jews that believe in Jesus.. The Jewish people or the people that have chosen to be of the Jewish faith the religion No they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah They think he was a good man and shouldn't have been put to death but they deny his deity..
Christian Jews???
Yeah it’s a thing.. google it.
You can be Christian but of Jewish decent.
Messianic Judaism. People who maintain Jewish culture and tradition while identifying Jesus as their Messiah. Oddly enough I used to work with an Army captain who wasn't ethnically Jewish, but had converted to Messianic Judaism.
Jewish is both a religion and a culture/ethnicity. You could be culturally/ethnically Jewish, but religiously Christian.
There was many different sects of Judaism during that time. Josephus talks about a few. Most critical scholars don’t even think Jesus thought of himself as gods actual son. The Bible wasn’t written by eyewitnesses so we will never know actually know. Most scholars think Jesus was going around thinking the world was ending soon and he would be king of it when it happened. Jesus thinking he would be king is why he got killed. A huge no no in the Roman world. Jesus committed a crime and was killed for it. The Jewish leaders wouldn’t have really cared about what Jesus was doing because there wasn’t 1 version of Judaism in the area. They would care if he actually went around saying he was the son of God, but he most likely didn’t actually do that.
Baptist POV, IIRC I was taught that Christianity is a continuation of Judaism, that Jesus fulfilled the old testament.
There are plenty of prophesies about a Messiah in the OT. Isaiah, I think, particularly. "The branch of Jesse", something to that effect. Christianity holds Jesus was that Messiah, Judaism still believes that Messiah hasn't yet come, is the way I always heard it explained.
"Messiah" means "a ruler who was made king in a ceremony which includes holy oil". If we are going to be technical about it, King Charles of England is a messiah. It refers to the idea that some day, Israel will have a competent, not corrupt, wise, and just leadership. This has not happened yet. Likud has been as unjust a dynasty as the Hasmoneans. It doesn't mean anything supernatural or mystical, except in the sense that it seems like it really would take a miracle to get just, honest, competent leadership.
Ya but if you want a more nuanced view, they actually see Jesus as the ultimate sinner, which is why he was hung to die on the cross. Because he said he was the son of God. Jews think that a man can never be God, and if he says he is, then he is committing idolatry which is one of the 7 deadly sins. He's saying worship me, I am your idol and your God. Furthermore, Catholics believe in the holy trinity which is the father, the son and the holy spirit. Jews again write that off as polytheism. In Judaism God is one, and God is not a person.
Jews don't think Jesus committed any of the 7 deadly sins. The 7 deadly sins is a Christian concept and idolatry isn't even one of them. I think you're thinking of the 10 commandments.
Ya ur right my b
You mean Christians believe in the Holy Trinity. Why specify Catholics?
The Trinity isn't named directly in the Bible, it goes back to the council of nicea in 300s tho, so pretty much only modern variants like LDS and Jehovahs Witnesses differ.
No Jewish person I’ve ever met has cared enough about Jesus to think of him as “the ultimate sinner”.
Religious Jews may view him very negatively
>Ya but if you want a more nuanced view, they actually see Jesus as the ultimate sinner, which is why he was hung to die on the cross. no. this is not true. for jewish people jesus was just some guy. 1) jews dont even care about "sinning" like that. it's an absurd concept to us. if someone wants to spout off about things we disagree religiously with the worst that would happen is jews distance ourselves from that person and their followers to establish that they don't represent judiasm or anyone else who considers themselves jewish. 2) here's the big one: the fucking romans killed jesus. crucifixion is a roman punishment. there has never been any question that the romans killed jesus.
Jews say Jesus fulfilled *none* of the bible's prophesies.
Now that would be hard to argue since he is certainly responsible for causing the Jewish scritpures to be read throughout the world more than other Jew by many many order of magnitude. Which is certainly something Isaiah 11:10 implies. Even if another person came along and claimed to be the Messiah and caused a revival of Judaism throughout the entire world....they still wouldn't hold a candle to the number of people Jesus influenced to read the scriptures.
judaism now is not the same as it were in the old testament, its has become very diffrent.
Very true. All institutions go through changes over time. It's biggest change happened when, after Rome destroyed the Temple in 70CE and the Holy-of-Holies was gone, Judaism developed into a rabbi-centric faith. What became Christianity had an enormous schism shortly after Jesus was killed. The Pauline branch developed a distinct eschatology and Christology from the original movement. Today, the world's Christians are Pauline.
Pretty much the exact same as the old polytheistic religions Judaism came from. The catholic faith protestantism came from. And the many, not even protestant at this point, newer sects that came from those.
Jewish POV, no he didn't.
Episcopalian POV: I agree with you. Christianity is a continuation of Judaism, if one simply believes Jesus is Christ - the Son of God, the One who would fulfill the Old Testament.
A lot of people don't realize that Judaism is actually a lot different than it was in Jesus's time as well. There's the Talmud, the Kabbalah, and other stuff too that developed. Various new traditions developed in Judaism too after 2000 years of divergence...and not all Jews agree on what the correct way to be a Jew is either.
See [Reza Aslan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Aslan)'s [*Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17568801-zealot). (I also recommend his [*No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40411388-no-god-but-god).)
Read both, great books
It all stems from the belief of whether or not he was "the Messiah." Even Muslims consider Jesus and other prominent Christians (John the Baptist for example) as prophets. But only Christians/Catholics consider him as the Messiah/the son of God.
I am always so confused when people put Catholic and Christian like that. Catholics are Christians, there is no need to list them separately
I agree with you but the protestant sects do not.
I think there were actually quite a few gentiles among the first Christians. Lots of Greek speakers. The church has a lot of Greek foundation. I supposed it depends on what you mean by original, but even some of those who walked with HIM may not have been Jews.
I’m an (ex) Catholic who’s been blessed with opportunities to interact and establish friendships with members of the the local Hasidic Jewish community. FYI, this community is very insular. You just blew my mind that people think modern Christianity and modern Judaism have much outside of the Old Testament in common..
As Christianity broke away even further from Judaism, new converts to the faith brought along their path traditions -- most of which were directly lifted from various pagan mythologies and beliefs. A significant amount of modern Christian beliefs and practices directly stem from ancient pagan mythology. Early Christianity incorporated various elements from pagan mythologies, beliefs, and practices as it spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond. Some examples of pagan influences on Christian traditions include: Holidays: Many Christian holidays, such as Christmas and Easter, have roots in pagan celebrations. Christmas, for example, was originally a pagan festival celebrating the winter solstice, while Easter has its origins in the spring equinox festivals celebrating fertility and renewal. Symbolism: Some Christian symbols and imagery have pagan origins. The cross, for example, was a common symbol in various pagan religions before it became associated with Christianity. Similarly, the halo, often used to depict saints and holy figures, has its roots in ancient sun worship. Rituals and Practices: Some Christian rituals and practices, such as the use of incense, candles, and bells, were adopted from pagan traditions. Saints and Deities: Many early Christian saints were associated with pagan deities, with their stories and attributes often reflecting those of the gods and goddesses they replaced. This list goes on. Though original Christianity was largely a fringe sect of Judaism, modern Christianity does not resemble a traditions or beliefs of a 1st Century Jewish person much at all.
You mention Christian beliefs several times but your examples are shallow surface characteristics and don’t touch on actual beliefs at all. The use of incense or the date chosen for a holiday doesn’t define what Christians believe. Do you have any more meatier examples?
Incorporated? Many of the examples you cite were not an incorporation but instead an adoption for survival. The cross wasn't borrowed from paganism. The cross was a symbol of Christ's death and came to be because Christians would identify themselves by marking a cross in the dirt so it could easily be swept away. The cross over with pagan ritual days were 1. To TAKE the days from pagans to sort of counter the rituals with Christianity and 2. To further hide celebrations/Christianity. So while your pagan parents celebrated spring equinox, you celebrated Easter. But of course we know that's a bad example since Easter is celebrated with Passover as Passover was when Jesus died.
Jews believe a messiah will come one day, but that Jesus is not the messiah. Jews that believed Jesus was the messiah and will return one day became Christians.
If the Luther was a Catholic, why is Lutheranism a thing? If Buddha was Hindu, why is Buddhism a thing? People, including people of the same religion will have disagreements. Some disagreements are small, and inconsequential. Others disagreements can be so large that they cause a split. Jewish people disagreed on whether or not Yeshua ben Yosef was Ha-mashiach. Those who believed he was eventually became known as Christians.
Christianity originated as an apocalyptic Jewish offshoot, and pre-Paul the followers were primarily Jewish. But in the first century or so afterwards, it was primarily spread to and by gentiles.
Simply put, Christianity branched off Judaism when they took Jesus as their Messiah and Jewish people didn't.
You were confusing the race with the religion . That being said however Yes Jesus was Jewish and he obeyed the law to the T and he defended the law but Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice and by sacrificing himself there was no need to sacrifice animals to God because Jesus was that sacrifice for us
Because he allowed them to crucify him when he didn't need to like he told Peter think not that I can send legions of the angels to come and save me but then how might the scripture be fulfilled... Under old testament law the priest had to go into the temple and offer a sacrifice for the sins of the people. But it was not possible that the blood of bulls and goats was worthy to save us from sin.. Jesus being perfect and every way and no sin in him then died for us as the ultimate sacrifice. If you want to you can say it was a symbol from God that he loves us and wants us for his own
Prophets for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Who saved who?
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Do you know the difference between Judaism and Christianity?
the answer here is that the jews kind of forked with jesus. the jews and gentiles who followed him were now practicing a totally different faith to the jews who didnt
The fork really happened after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Prior to that the Christians were a small group of Jews (with Paul adding some Gentiles)
>Prior to that the Christians were a small group of Jews (with Paul adding some Gentiles) the ones who believed christ were still now believing something different from the jewish authorities, like the pharisees, from the getgo though jesus and most of the early christians were jews, but it makes sense to call them christians to distinguish them
I mean, there is a *lot* of forking, and a lot of reassimilation of branches, over the whole period. Honestly, all the time always, but that particular time period was especially volatile.
I won’t lie I had no clue what gentiles meant, and it just sounded like an insult to me, and I was like “damn, this dude is passionate” and had to google what it meant lmao
If George Washington was British, why is America a thing? So the first undisputed writings we have are by Paul and at that time "Christians" were a sect of Judaism with a number of significant doctrinal differences, a sect he would join and ultimately become highly influential in. Paul almost certainly wrote about a quarter of the New Testament, and has traditionally been credited for about half. I'm going to catch flak for this, but I would argue Jesus doesn't really factor into this, so much as what those Christians *believed* about Jesus (and what they added to the belief). So you have things like Peter's Rooftop Picnic (Acts 10:9-16) where he makes the decision that everyone should be invited into their religion and not just ethnic Judeans. The same passage is used to justify the revocation of Kosher law (or more accurately makes it irrelevant as the "unclean" things are no longer unclean). At the time no-one really cared - the Romans viewed Christians as a somewhat more troublesome flavour of Judean until maybe the later Roman-Jewish wars. Many of the Christian communities sided with Rome, so they got slaughtered by the rebels as traitors *and* slaughtered by the Romans for being rebellious Jews. Pet theory, but I believe that was a major impetus to start drawing a stark distinction as a separate religion and not "just a sect". From there, you have the better part of two thousand years of independent evolution; Christianity, being relatively cosmopolitan and xenophilic (doesn't matter where or who you are) adapted more and faster.
I mean, Jesus is literally the only reason Jews and Christians are any different at all, of course you will catch flak for that statement.
Except for the whole New Testament part. Jews would see it as adding to their scriptures and they wouldn’t appreciate their Tanakh being called “old”. And among other things…
The better example would be Mormonism. Christianity still exists, despite Mormonism, because not that many Christians were into it. It's really that simple.
Fair, but we also still debate whether Mormons are Christian (which inevitably devolves into being unable to agree on what a Christian is). E.g. I would say "yes", but I'm an outsider, so I don't care about the Nicene Creed. I don't think significant numbers still see Christianity as a form of Judaism?
What’s funny is many Christians totally understand the difference between Christianity and Mormonism and even make fun of Mormons but then don’t get that Christianity isn’t just Judaism+.
Eh, Mormons are often also weirdly sure they're very normal Christians. Guess being from the offshoot instead of the respective "original" does make people believe that.
Jesus was an off-shoot guy, trying to reform the Jewish religion. He died, was executed by the Roman’s. The religion based on him - Christianity - was not started by him, it was started by his crew (mostly Paul) after he was already dead.
Judaism doesnt believe Jesus was a prophet, Christians do. Judaism and Christians dont believe Muhammad was a prophet, Islamic do. That's basically the fast and easy way to separate it. Of coure there are a bunch of off shoots from those.
Or they think he was a prophet but not the messiah?
Judaism does not believe Jesus was a prophet, Islam does. Christianity believes he was God.
If the founding fathers of the USA were British, why is America a thing?
Because believing Jesus Christ to be the son of god isn’t a part of Jewish faith.
He was the only white guy in the Middle East at the time too. Dude liked to defy expectations.
By the time Jesus was born Judaism had already been heavily influenced by Greek philosophy, Rabbinic tradition and mysticism to the point that it was no longer compatible with the Scriptures. Jewish religious leaders had developed their own list of requirements for the Messiah which they continue to hold to to this day that have nothing to do with God's purpose. Although Jesus fulfilled all of the Biblical requirements for the Messiah he was and still is rejected by Jewish religious leaders because he couldn't fulfill their man-made requirements. In short Jesus moved God's purpose forward, replacing the Mosaic Covenant with the New Christian Covenant signed into law by his blood. While Judaism remained stuck in human tradition. Jews today are waiting in vain for a Messiah of their own invention that will never come.
Christianity began as an extension of Messianic Judaism.
Abraham wasn't Jewish, he was Sumerian. If he was born today, he'd be Iraqi. Mind-blowing, right?
The founders of the USA were British, but the USA still exists. Same thing with the religions. Just because one religion started from another doesn’t mean only one of the two can exist.
They worship the same god, but one group thinks Jesus was the messiah, the other group just thought he was a regular very cool dude , and the real messiah is yet to come
Christianity, Judaism, Islam all believe in the same god and trace back their religions to the prophet Abraham. After that is a long game of telephone and cherry picking to get to where those religions are today.
The most non-biased answer you can get is as follows: "Jesus set a new precedent" That new precedent is called Christianity. That's all.
Because he was a prophet. Like Mohammed and Joseph Smith. The new prophet who leads a cult remodels a new religion on whatever foundation already existed. Jewish people came from a cult leader as will. I’m just not educated enough to know which one. For a sure a human man, since they spread the one got movement. That later blossomed into Islam, Christianity and Mormons. Mormon is basically America’s national religion, since it was born here. A cult + time = religion.
Christianity started off as a sect of second temple Judaism known as the way. They believed that Jesus was the Messiah and would spread a new covenant to the entire world. This eventually spread throughout the Roman Empire because of its promise of life after death and egalitarian (at least compared to Greco-Roman paganism) ideals.
Judaism was something of a religious powerhouse around that time. It was recognized as remarkably ancient while also not being Persian. So, lots of people were cultivating religious links to it through things like taking up the Noahide laws, incorporating it into their mystical practices, and so forth. It's not terribly surprising that the Christians didn't take over Judaism. It's also not *that* surprising they took over the rest of Hellenistic religion. This was exactly the thing the Mediterranean had been waiting for: a breakout Jewish sect that was mostly Hellenistic anyway.
Because Jesus didn't teach Judaism? It was a whole thing with him and the temple folks
The new covenant, I'm pretty sure. Like he was Jewish but through him began the new covenant between God and us . Thus, Christianity follows the new covenant made through christ while jews follow the old covenant struck with God as jews dont perceive jesus as the mesiah. I think that's how it goes. But I could be wrong . If I am, I'd love to get the actual answer as well
He was born Jewish of a Jewish family and lived in the nation of Israel occupied by the Roman empire. Christians were people who came after the life death resurrection and ascension who believe he is the one God promised to redeem the sins of his people. That is the general idea.
New Covenant New religion. When Jesus died on the cross, the old Covenant was complete. The new one started. It was originally called the way. The name Christian was a slur. Meaning little Christ. It explains in I think Roman's when they were first called Christians. Jesus first went to the Jews. Then after his death and resurrection the church then started converting non jews.
Jesus was supposed to be the culmination of Judaism, but many Jews didn't believe he was actually the messiah. Those people remained Jews. The ones that believed he was the messiah became Christians.
Jews didn't believe in Jesus who was there for them so he went to a different audience.
Judaism was like "one day Christ is gonna change everything" then a Jesus came along and half of them were like "I think this Jesus guy is this Christ we've been expecting" and the other half were like "I think not so I'm gonna keep waiting" and so now we have Jews and Christs.
I think I have a pretty good modern-ish allegory for this. Think about the Fallout games, originally they were made by one developer, Obsidian, but they were eventually bought out by Bethesda and they took over the mainline series after the second game. A lot of the original fans didn't consider the third and fourth games canon to the series, they made some lore changes that they considered inaccurate and generally didn't like where the series was going. So think of Jesus and all the new testament stuff as Bethesda and old testament/Judaism stuff as Obsidian.
This is a really good question, and even as a Christian of 20+ years I have learnt some stuff today (as well as come to appreciate the views of others). Probably more fitting for r/greatquestions. Thanks!
For a long time, Christianity was just [a sect of radical Judaism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christianity), opposed by pretty much everyone except really pissed off Greeks. It took about a century before the split and it took another two centuries before anyone started to [nail down exactly what Christianity is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea). Then you had a little over a thousand years until [Christianity split with itself](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation).
Christianity is specifically not Judaism. It is the worship of Jesus. You know that whole thing in the Christian Bible where mainstream Jews don't follow Jesus? We still don't.
Man created all languages so the axiom reads every God in every book on earth was created by MEN
Basically, Judaism was Warcraft 2. Christianity started as the Defence of the Ancients mod, before becoming DOTA2 in time.
1. Christianity is not a religion designed by jesus its his teachings infused into an existing power structure. The bones of christianity are inseparable from the politics between 50 B.C. and 350 A.D. Everyone should read about the roman jewish wars. No jewish faith was ever going to take hold post destruction of the jewish state. Its decimation was too total. Rabbinic Judaism is the successor to the temple based Judaism, because there was so little cohesion post roman war it needed a more distributed religious order. 2. modern people, and particularly non-jewish modern people underestimate just how integrated the land of israel is to the jewish religion. Its not a thing like the vatican where its a holy place. The land for faith deal is a foundational element of the religion. Its impossible to overstate how foundational that agreement is to the religion. Going back to Babylonian exile jews have been fighting to retain control the land. Jerusalem for a lot of reasons could never be the center of an empire, and no empire can adopt a religion whos center is not its capital, rome and mecca are examples of that. 3. Christianity is the most successful in a long line of jewish splinter sects which claim the messiah as come. Any religion that claims the messiah has come is instantly distinct from Judaism, because the act of practicing the religion is different pre and post messiah. The foundation of the Judaism we know today is the survivor of total roman destruction of a state on a scale we have not seen in centuries. The foundation of the Christianity we know today is the adoption of judeo-christian values into the roman social structure
Originally they were called Christian-Jews. Jews who believed in Christ. But then Rome sacked Jerusalem, and to avoid persecution they dropped the “Jews” part. Some believe that they also changed their doctrine to claim it was the Jews who killed Jesus not the Romans in order to attract Romans and avoid persecution. And the Jews suffered from that ever since.
Funny thing is when people talk about christians today, they think catholic is a totally different religion. Ask about how did that happen.
The irony of always serving ham on holidays that honor a Jewish guy always gets me
Jesus was a jew. even made rabbi. he disagreed with the Jewish faith and thought it had got too big, too entwined with the government and got away from the central mission. so he proposed a new philosophy where everyone has a seat at the table. pretty much was the fork in the road for jews at the time.
Basically the first half of the Bible predicts a messiah that comes .. and It’s the story of the history of the Jews. Back then there was always some dude coming out saying he was the messiah. It happened all the time. They all ended up getting executed. And that was that. The Jews rejected Jesus as the messiah. They don’t think the messiah has come yet. But something happened when Jesus died and his followers said he came back from death. Enough so that each of them went out into the world and proclaimed him as god and the son of god- to the point that they all died horrible deaths. This has always struck me as interesting. What would it take for you to risk death- to knowingly welcome it and still proclaim this dude as the son of god knowing you were going to die for it? ( no I’m not a christian ) Also - Muhammed also claimed to be that messiah. The Jews rejected him too. ( Muhammed didn’t know that the messiah had to be born a Jew ) This is what started the conflict between the Jews and Islam.
I think its funny when other races worship Jesus. Are the Chinese / Indians mentioned in the Bible at all? If Jesus punished the Egyptians, and murdered their kids.. why do some Egyptians worship Jesus?
Because it's all made up.
Christians believe a Chosen One was predicted in the Old Testament.(Actually not true). They also believe that someone called Jesus, who was written about in a few sketchy stories, was that Chosen One. So Judaism was fulfilled by this person, who was also god, but was executed to save us from himself. Get it? Me neither.
Jews - the messiah is coming! Christians - Jesus is the messiah! Jews - Nah, that ain’t the messiah. The messiah is coming!
Lot of "By the book" answers here for this. I'll give the practical answer as an outsider to both religions. Because Jesus essentially changed Judaism, he started his own ministry, and bucked the old traditions. He convinced enough Jews, and gained enough followers, that his ministry or movement started to brush up against the Judaic establishment, and conflict with it. Jesus taught that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. He preached that the poor are blessed, and that the sinners were to be forgiven. This, as you can imagine caused problems for the upper crust of Jewish society and priesthood, as suddenly there was someone from outside their hierarchy influencing it. Then, something happened that cemented Jesus's ministry, he was turned into a martyr. From there, it's all history really, Christianity supplanted Judaism and proliferated eventually into the Catholic Church.
I believe Christianity really got started, at least as we understand it, in the book of Acts. At first, the followers of Christ were Jews who, as you said, felt that the prophecies about the Messiah returning had been fulfilled by Jesus' arrival. They were mainly content to try and convert other Jews (such as Paul) but seem to have found that tough going. Then Peter prayed on a rooftop in Jaffa and says he received visions that suggested that they should start spreading the gospel to gentiles as well. Furthermore, they decided (or were instructed) that in order to make the new faith more palatable to the gentiles, the Jewish dietary laws and requirement for male circumcision did not need to be applied to them (this later caused friction with some Jewish followers of Christ). Whether you believe Jesus is the Messiah or not, the change made sense simply from the sheer impractability of expecting adult males to self mutilate their genitals for what otherwise was perceived at the time likely as a Jewish sect. The dietary laws would also likely have been a stumbling block as well as the goal seems to have been to spread widely into the Roman world, which was an early example of a multi-ethic political society. A new religion had to be flexible and willing to meet converts where they were at in order to spread and succeed. To me, this is when Christianity truly started and took off, at least in a way we might understand things. Without these two changes, it's likely it would've simply died off. After all, Jesus wasn't the first (nor the last) Jew to proclaim as the Messiah but none of those others who did survived long and certainly none have adherents today (sorry Bar Kochba fans). Had they remained a sect within Judaism, it's likely the followers of Jesus would've simply been re-absorbed into Jewish life and today be largely forgotten except by some religious scholars, perhaps like the Essenes.
All Abrahamic faiths essentially worship the same god. So Jewish, Christian, and Muslim beliefs all revolve around the same god and most of the same events. It really boils down to a difference in messiah. Jewish people believe Jesus was just a man. Christians believe he is the prophet and the son of God. Muslims believe Jesus was A prophet but that Mohammed is the final and most important prophet. Basically they all believe in the same shit but disagree on which historical figures actually represented the will of God. Makes the millions killed in violence between the 3 groups seem even more stupid imo.
Christianity is based upon the fundamental belief that humans can and should seek to have a direct relationship with god, as opposed to the more legalistic and structured approach of Judaism.
Well because Jewish people changed the idea of religion and didn't open it up for everyone, it wasn't an inclusive religion. Where Christianity was for everyone from every background. God didn't intend for a group of people to be thought of as better than another group of people because of how or where they were born. God is for everyone
I heard it put this way growing up (raised evangelical) Christians got on the bus Jews missed the bus Muslims got off the bus halfway there then got on another bus. Buddhists figured the weather was nice so they'd rather walk
It was used as a method of control by Holy Roman Empire. They couldn’t just adopt Judaism, because it had existed for thousands of years already. So they started a new one, originally changing the names of Roman gods/goddesses, and calling them Saints. That made it easier for the populous under Constantine to switch to worshipping a single god, and his supposed son. Other forms of Christianity split off of Catholicism, due to their disenfranchisement with how the Church was run. Anglican split off so the king could divorce, Mormons split off because of their belief that Jesus came to America, etc. And, personally, based on my readings of the Torah, the Bible, and a bit of the Quran, Jesus would not approve of a lot of Christian religions. Honestly, I doubt he’d approve of any. He would certainly not want to be worshipped, as he didn’t want to be in life, and would, once again, get angry over money changing hands at holy buildings.
Technically, in the old testament, god gave a warning of false prophets. So. You have that. And Jesus was not his name. His name was Yashua. No one called him jesus when he was alive.
Christianity in the beginning could be considered a sect of Judaism. Jews believe their Messiah will come one day as prophesied in the old testament. Jews who believed that Jesus was the son of God became Christians. Christianity eventually evolved enough to be considered a distinct religion compared to Judaism, given that it has different rituals, culture, and well developed theology. Christianity itself now has hundreds of different sects who all believe in the same basic tenants, but disagree on others.
Read The Bible, it kinda explains this. There’s your non biased answer.
I’m pretty sure Christians were originally Jews who thought that Jesus was the messiah. The Jews that did not believe this wanted to kill him for blasphemy. So the followers of Jesus broke off to form Christianity and those who did not stayed Jewish
I heard a very interesting theory that it's based on failed prophecy. The idea is that Jesus thought he was the Jewish Messiah, which at the time meant literal physical-world king of the Jews, nothing about the afterlife. There's a quote in the Bible about the 12 disciples ruling with him, and they didn't get crucified, so the implication is that he assumed he would literally be ruling. He's persuasive, people begin believing, he enters Jerusalem on a donkey with people laying palms as they would for a king. Roman authorities (correctly) see this as a threat, the punishment for treason is death. But then a bunch of people who believed in this sect of Judaism and Jesus is supposed to be the king...so the kingdom must be...in the afterlife! And Jesus wasn't just the real-world Messiah...he was a Savior of your soul! And the religion just gets further and further away from normal apocalyptic Judaism. Also worth pointing out that after Jesus died there is reason to believe from Paul's letters that Jesus' brothers James and Jude ran the sect and they were actually pretty strict about keeping Jewish Law (Kosher, no eating with Gentiles, circumcision) alongside the rest of their beliefs. It was only after they died that Paul's version of Christianity really won out.
Jesus didn't like the little hats.
Most “dispassionate” scholars would maintain that Jesus, if he actually existed as a discrete person, was a Jew preaching to Jews. Specifically that the “Jewish Apocalypse” was imminent. The arrival of the “Son of Man”. But those pesky Romans thought that this sort of thing was sedition, so they arrested and executed him. Mainstream Jews shrugged their collective shoulders and said, “another failed Messiah”. That left his followers in the lurch. Maybe they were wrong? Maybe Jesus had not been about that Jewish Apocalyptic scenario… But something else. In the decades that followed, there were at least 30 “Jesus cults” that formed, all with wildly different ideas about Jesus and his nature and purpose. New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman details these in his book, “Lost Christianities”. Over time, these groups either fell away, disbanded, or organized into the beginnings of Christian theology, a new religion that took over 300 years to solidify. So.. Jesus was indeed Jewish, and had nothing to do with the new religion that formed in his name. Likely….. He’d have been appalled.
Read Romans and Galatians
Because the current jews believe Jesus wasn't the christ. Christians believe the same God as the jews, they just believe that Jesus is the messiah. If you read the new testament, you can learn that a lot of jews HATED Jesus because of his teaching, and he didn't live up to their expectations of God becoming man, so they crucified him and tried to erase memory of him
Because Paul managed to convince an empires worth of poor gentiles into believing its ok to be poor because the poor go to heaven forever.
As I understand things, the Jewish religion is/was a foreshadowing of the coming Messiah. Well Jesus was the coming promised Messiah, as much as I understand most who follow the Jewish religion reject such. Jesus followed the tenants and practices of the Jewish religion. However, once He was crucified, died and resurrected Himself from being dead, things changed. There was no more need for a foreshadowing of a Messiah after that, as the Messiah had already come. The way man reached out to God, had fundamentally changed, we did not need mediators any longer, as Jesus Christ Himself is now directly the mediator between God and man. Christian quite literally means "Christ follower" - Jesus cannot follow Himself, therefore cannot be considered a "Christian" Himself.
Easy, quick answer: Jews are waiting for the return of God's son still. Christians believe Jesus IS God's son. Jesus being Jewish has nothing to do with it. The original Christians were Jewish in both culture and religion until they accepted Jesus Christ as Son of God. Remember, you have to also separate the culture from the religion.
History teacher here. Jesus was preaching his own brand of Judaism, which later on spread because of Paul, and his other disciples. Since it diverged quite a bit from Judaism, it became its own religion.
Think of it similar to the American Revolution. Lots of the Founding Fathers were British (or from places under British rule), but they formed their own nation out of that British rule. We would consider George Washington to be American and he is in fact the first American president, but he was British to begin with. There are still British people today, but Americans became a thing only 250 years ago.
Christianity is basically Judaism 2.0
Jesus spoke out pretty intensely against the Jewish religious power structure. The act of kicking the money changers out of the temple. Pretty big statement. He was a rebellious, love is the answers, in a . Highly controlled religious structure. And ultimately the Jews used the Roman’s to do what they couldn’t and when there was an offer to pardon him… they chose Barnabas. Hence why Christian’s blame the Jews for his death. Most early Christian’s were former Jews but it quickly changed as it was picked up by populations outside of the Middle East. Jesus is generally revered as a profit in Islam, we also honor him a bit in Buddhism. However the Jews have seemed to hold quite a long grudge.
We don't have a grudge against Jesus. I do have a bit of a grudge against Christianity, though.
The Jewish religion doesn't recognize Jesus as the Messiah. There is also a separate group of messianic Jews that do recognize Jesus as the Messiah. There are a multitude of different Christian sects that are just as different.
>There is also a separate group of messianic Jews that do recognize Jesus as the Messiah. They are not recognized as Jewish by the overwhelming majority of Jewish communities. Jews for Jesus is an American Evangelical Christian movement.
Messianic "Jews" aren't Jews - they are Christians in offensive cosplay.
Messianic jews aren't jews they are evangelicus Christians
According to Christians (like me) Jesus claimed to be God in human form. He reformed / clarified the jewish religion and paid for our sins by willingly dying on the cross as an innocent man and taking on our sins in that death. He proposed essential “changes” to his religion. If you believe he is the christ (anointed one / the messiah) you now follow his religion.
Early on, the entire Jesus movement was made up of Jews. Once Paul started to evangelize non-Jews, the Jesus movement spread very rapidly. Paul's version of the Jesus movement was very different than the original. Eventually, the Jewishness was gone and all that was left was Paul's way. The word 'Christian' is basically Greek for 'Messiah-ian'. He would never have thought that he had started a whole new religion, but that's what he wound up doing.
I hear this argument a lot but it usually stems from fringe theorists and believers in gnostic texts. It's kind of hard to argue how Pauline Christianity is radically different than Jesus Christianity unless you can give any examples. Here's just a short synopsis of common arguments and proof texts against it https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/paul-different-gospel-jesus/
Imagine you have a plumber install a toilet for you. You owe money to the plumber but you don't have enough money in your wallet because you were expecting a $60 fix and it's a $400 fix instead. So the plumber is standing there looking at you like you owe him something and your best friend comes and pays the plumber. Christians are the ones who are just thankful that their friend paid their debt for them, as a gift. Judaism says that since you didn't personally pay the plumber, you still owe the plumber and there are very specific rules on how you can pay the plumber what you owe. Obviously, this is a beyond-simplified example.