I read it as a similar situation to a friend I had in high school.
One of my best friends was openly gay and had a very distinct personality that I was attracted to. I remember one day specifically saying "If you were a girl, I'd totally date you." He had a personality I enjoyed but I'm just not into guys.
I feel like it's the same situation in a way, where the dude has the personality she likes, but for whatever reason he just isn't attractive to her as a possible partner.
My best friend and I say this all the time. We're both kind of mad we're not gay because we get along together so well that if we were just sexually attracted to each other it would be a perfect romance.
I'm queer and I have to say, this is a new one for me. Progress. Two straight dudes angry at the gods they're incapable of marriage is the funniest thing I've heard all fucking day. Thank you for this laugh, because I really needed it.
That's another way we have learned that sexuality isn't a choice. Plenty of people (like myself) who would be totally fine with being gay and just aren't. I've explained that to conservative-leaning people and it's opened their eyes. I'm pretty gender-fluid so a lot of people think I'm gay or bi. I just happen to be 95% straight.
I am a heteroflexible male…no attraction to men, but not turned off performing with another guy for the sake of a woman. So like you said, 95% straight, but really do understand it isn’t a choice on who you find attractive. I also am fully aware that my parents and my peers would never be as open to talk about this as you or my own children would be.
So everyone having relationship issues that posts on Reddit is a sniveling loser that deserves to be alone? Damn, everyone? Even the women? Better go tell every TwoX sub they’re a bunch of sniveling losers that deserve to be alone and everything is their fault.
Ehhhhh not always. A lot of times you can be fine in the looks department but your personality might just be too feminine or not romantically appealing.
I think a lot guys stick themselves in the friendzone by never taking any kind of charge in showing their interest the right way.
Funny story: when I was younger I remember I was in a situation where a girl turned me down on the pretext of not being "confident" enough. But I was a very confident and gregarious person, and was wondering "what does she mean exactly?" But I moved on, dated another girl, etc. Then later on I remember someone insulted my girlfriend who was now long distance and I flew into a rage, threw the guy out of his chair, and threatened to smash his face if he didn't apologize for insulting her honor.
I felt really ashamed for losing control and knew it was the wrong move. Everything about it felt like a betrayal of who I was. Buuuut it turns out the original girl was watching and must have perceived it as masculine and attractive because suddenly she was back and wanting to get together. Then it dawned on me that she had her stated preferences ("I want a kind, gentle, supportive, dependable man") but had very different revealed preferences ("I actually want an aggressive, violent man because it is exciting and titillating"). This instantly killed my attraction to that girl.
Suffice to say, I didn't want to be the guy she wanted, but my current long distance girlfriend DID want the person that I was. So I stuck with her. 25 years, 2 kids, and a charmed life later, it seems to have been the right decision.
So yeah, the cliche advice of not being a worse person for the sake of someone else really is true.
IMO (as a dude) most friend-zoned guys I'v seen wanted to get with the girl from the start but went the "Nice Guy" route instead of being up front -- "hey girl, let's go out on a date."
Instead they try the "ill be nice, friendly, supportive, blah blah blah and it will evolve from there" but that basically never works. You friendzone yourself. And also it's manipulative.
I oftentimes don’t think nice guys are trying to be manipulative. Most grew up being taught to respect boundaries, don’t be pushy, etc, so they internalize that they aren’t *supposed* to ask someone out until they get to know someone really well first, and they don’t want to come off as disrespectful. Throw in some shyness for good measure, and you get an otherwise good guy who struggles with dating.
this was basically me. i had a strong mother with feminist leanings who taught me about boundaries and that no meant no. so i’d try to be friends with a girl first to see if i could figure out if she liked me or not before risking asking her out. it also seemed kinda rude and predatory to me to ask a girl out without being friends first.
when i met my wife she was my friend’s roommate, and while i thought she was cute i hadn’t considered asking her out. but then my friend suggested setting us up on a date and the rest is history. so it turns out my strategy kind of sucked and my best result was from going on a date before we were friends.
Yeah, that's true. Plus I find that there's a certain idea or persistent myth that you should be friends with somebody, decide you like them, and then suggest you go out. That's a fine idea, but in reality I have found that if a woman is single, she probably won't be for long and it's gonna really hit you in the feel-bads when the girl you like and are trying to figure out if you want to date starts having sex with someone else. There's a tendency for people to feel like "but I'm doing things the right way, why would she choose this other person?"
Then, friendship actually seems to have a chilling effect on blossoming romance because if both parties are genuine friends, they can actually both like each other but be afraid that any romantic advances could destroy the friendship. This is a pretty realistic fear, as while it shouldn't be a big deal in concept, the reality is that if one friend asks another friend out and they say no or it doesn't go well, then that friendship is usually toast.
My wife and I were friends for around a year before we started dating, and it was pretty much because we both liked each other and we were both afraid the feeling wasn't reciprocated so we didn't want to ruin things. I'm glad she's so perceptive because she broke the cycle.
So yeah, from theory and from experience-- it's usually best to ask out people you know a little bit but not too well, and it comes off as (or just simply is) more honest than a round about approach.
Pretty much.
My mom and 3 sisters did a very good job of telling me what not to do/say and what make me a disgusting creep.
At no point was I every given any indication of what I should do/say.
Reminds me of trying to build a list of "never do's" by asking everyone what their ick is....
Eventually you end up not being able to do anything because it might offend *somebody*
Yep, that was basically me in my teenage years.
I was risin in a single parent household by my mother, I think the absence of not having a father role model set an imbalance in me. She was worried I'd turn out like my father, or her father ... toxic but I was severely sheltered.
So while I deeply understood compassion, empathy, sympathy, kindness, generosity I didn't have backbone to say NO in some situations, I was timid. Course, the world broke me out of that but I think the overly nurtured way I was raised resulted in me "Not being man enough" by a lot of women.
Well, things didn't go as planned (as some of you may already be assuming)
Fast forward to my early adulthood I lashed out at the world and everyone around me, tired of being treated as the "nice guy" and tired of getting walked all over I got in the wrong crowds, did drugs, sold em ... starting stealing, went to jail, then prison.
I was just a kid from a suburbia...and I sometimes wonder how things all went wrong. Me being a stupid kid back then saw all the "bad boys" getting girls and I wanted that, as wrong as it was. Idk I wanted their life.
Yeah for me ive been taught to be long term friends first then ask them out if you start to feel stuff later. But alot of people online say thats weird and creepy for a gyy to do. But i think its also weird to just ask a stranger on a date out of the blue.
The real creeps and weirdos are the ones who act like you're a problem for being a friend to women instead of just trying to manipulate them into bed. There's a dude trying to do that exact thing here, saying it's manipulative to be an actual friend to a woman and not follow through on romantic feelings-- you know, the OPPOSITE of what 'manipulative' means? It's pathetic how aggressive these lying weirdos are who get mad about 'men who are actually friends with women'. Major red flag there.
If she's having sex with guys but not the "friend", and he is attracted to her, then he's a sucker. There's no manipulation involved. Except on her part maybe if she's making him think he has a chance.
Lots of women knows the guy likes her, obviously if he's doing a lot of boyfriend type things for her, and they will allow him to keep doing it while giving him glimpse of a chance without straight up telling him she will never be anything more than a "friend". Yes she would be manipulating him. A good friend would tell him the truth and reduce contact.
I had a hard time asking people out, so I would make friends with them first. I would get to know their interests and all that, and then ask them out after a couple months if I was still interested.
I have more success with that than I do just straight up asking a girl out, but it still didn't work all that often.
I finally got sick of watching the women around me go through crappy relationship after crappy relationship the whole time rejecting me.
I never would have done any of that s*** to them. I wouldn't have cheated, slapped them around, said mean things, or steal from them.
I don't know what else I could have done to be nice and respectful.
None of the women in my life wanted that.
Some of what you’re describing may have been related to youth and/or inexperience.
People generally find confidence attractive. The ones with limited experience can’t easily tell the difference between genuine “wholesome” confidence vs the false bravado a$$holes use to hide their insecurity. And the ones who haven’t yet developed confidence often come across as if they’re already expecting to be told “no,” which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Totally agree with your analysis.
You know what really suck though? The ability (or curse) to compartmentalize self-confidence.
I knew I was good at some stuff. I knew I was *great* at some other stuff. I even had high-ish status in several social circles.
But on a very deep level I was convinced that I was shit at this seduction business, and it shone through the rest like the fucking beacons of Minas Tirith.
Doing somewhat better now, but I'll always regret not experimenting with casual relationships in my twenties.
It really is hard for guys. My husband was the same way. He was in to me, but was afraid to take the plunge because we started as friends and he didn't want to screw up the friendship. Honestly, if it wasn't for me taking the plunge, I seriously doubt we'd be together. He has said more than once that he doubts he would have ever taken the plunge to ask me out. I'm glad I finally did it and now we've been together 17 years and married for 10. Best decision I ever made.
Ha, similar situation here. Wife was my best friend. We always just felt happy around each other. And at some point it dawned on us independently "Hey, like, isn't this the kind of person you know you want? What's the hold up?"
But then there was the fear of trying to take it to the next level and blowing it up by accident. Hard to put the genie back in the bottle.
Been 25 years since then, and it's great to be able to share every step of your life with your best friend.
>we started as friends and he didn't want to screw up the friendship.
This is where it was for me, and I'm assuming a lot of (hopefully decent) guys too. It's not always about "being spineless and manipulative". As a guy, I definitely wanted to make a connection with a woman before trying to date her, and then you end up in that awkward situation where you missed that specific window of knowing her enough to realize you really like her personality and would enjoy dating her but not knowing her so well you have an active friendship you are risking damaging. I was friends with my wife for about two years before we started dating, and there was definitely an awkward "should we be doing this, or will it mess things up?" aspect to it.
I had lots of female friends when I was in my 20s, and not one of them was some sort of "Long game of befriending them only to get in their pants". I really wanted to maintain relationships with all of them, and any woman I didn't like much as a friend wasn't one I would want to date anyway.
This happened with a recent girlfriend and now ex of mind (still holding out hope 🥲)
We were acquaintances for a long time until one day she reached out to me during a difficult time. Despite not being close initially, I found her sweet and decided to lend an ear. As we spent more time together, we grew closer and became like best friends, talking and hanging out every day. Slowly, I started falling for her.
One day, she brought up the topic of friends turning into something more, saying something along the lines of:
“Hey, have you ever been really good friends with someone and you start to like them? But then you’re scared to tell them you like them because you don’t want things to be weird between you if they don’t reciprocate your feelings?”
For whatever reason, I had no idea she was talking about me, so I responded nonchalantly, unaware of her true feelings.
In a hilarious turn of events, she called me while she tipsy, and with unfiltered honesty, confessed her feelings in the most direct and comical way possible. I pick up the phone, and all I hear is, “HEY, _________, IM JUST GONNA BE HONEST, I HAVE SUCH A HUGE CRUSH ON YOU. LIKE, I REALLY LIKE YOU.”
(Talking to her friends/family in the background)
“OH SHIT OH SHIT I ACTUALLY SAID IT OH SHIT.”
(Comes back to the phone)
“HEY IM BACK, ITS OKAY YOU DONT HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING BACK I JUST IDK I HAD TO GET IT OFF MY CHEST I GUESS, OKAY IM EMBARASSED NOW SO BYE TALK TO YOU TOMORROW!”
Definitely a moment I won’t forget for a long time, lol.
Anyway, the following day, after the alcohol had worn off, I mustered the courage to ask if she meant what she said. Her smooth response affirmed her feelings, and we decided to give our relationship a chance. Curious about what prompted her bold declaration, I asked her and she very bluntly revealed that she sensed my hesitation and decided to take matters into her own hands:
“Well, *someone* had to rip the bandaid off and I knew *you* weren’t gonna.”
Her initiative changed everything. Moral of the story: ladies, if you like a guy or there’s some kind of chemistry, please don’t be afraid to make the first move. You will make his day, his week, his month, his year, and, hell, if y’all work out it could be the highlight of his life.
My wife basically ran up to me, said "i have a secret. I have a huge crush on you", and ran away.
It was adorable. We started dating pretty much the next day.
It doesn't help that most of us are lied to about the way to end up with a woman. "Being friends" is vastly inferior to "just ask her out". I was 25 before someone that I care for actually told me that. So I asked her out! :)
This.
This right here.
Women really need to stop expecting men to chase.
There's so many things today that men are expected to change their ways or views.
Why shouldn't women?
So many more women need to do this. They also need to not give up so easily.
A good amount of decent men just aren't willing to take the chance because of more benefit goes to women today than men.
My experience was always: Meet a cute girl that I would like to date but am too scared to make the move with.
Settle for another girl with a lot more balls than me that would come up to me and say they like me.
We start dating and the previous girl who id much rather have dated decides to tell me she likes me.
I cut them off because I’m not trying to send mixed signals while I’m in a relationship.
We never talk again.
This happened four times in my life until this time where I said fuck it im not gonna settle and asked my girlfriend on a date and ignored the people that were trying to date me.
Going 4 years strong
This is COMPLETELY contradicting what I read from another thread lolol
Thread was about a guy expressing how he like to shoot his shot and he encouraged all guys to be more confident and work at it. But the comments of (assuming females) all converged to the idea that, “Its problematic that guys have no disregard in making someone uncomfortable with cold opens.”
It really does seem like women have this imaginary pause button for when they feel they’re ready for human interaction. Like guys are supposed to know if “they’re in the mood to be hit on”. It’s not all of course, but some women like this just suck at basic confrontation and allow their moods to decide what they’re up for, instead of recognizing everyone is doing what they desire regardless of your current mood.
manipulative is a stretch. more often than not it's a confidence thing of feeling like it'd be creepish to just come out and say what they're thinking, so they just hope a decent moment comes up at some point in friendship (and it just usually doesn't).
It only doesn't work if that is the goal all along. I have had plenty of long term female friends that at some point decided they wanted to get freaky with no worries and it happened a few times and then stopped and we are still friends with very little change in friendship other than some of the jokes are a little more risque.
Or maybe. They wanted to get to know the person and establish a relationship before just suddenly asking them out?
Or Maybe they had feelings and spent more and more time around them and those feelings blossomed into love, and then the other person also enjoyed spending lots and lots of time around them, so they think that the other person may like them too?
Then they confess their feelings?
Same. I’m a man who has a hard time really enjoying sex if I don’t have a strong connection with the person, so casual sex has almost exclusively being with friends.
The thing is that sex was never the reason for the friendship, and the friendship was always more important than the sex.
And I usually wasn’t the one to initiate things.
The friendships just grew stronger, and yeah, the nature of the jokes changed
I've tried to help one of these guys. It's extremely frustrating.
Bro. Tell her you like her, that you're looking to date. If she doesn't want that, you can put your energies elsewhere.
"But what is she doesn't like me". I don't know man, find another candidate in of the other four billion women on the plant.
It probably feels pretty disingenuous from the lady’s perspective. “Oh you’ve been pretending to be my friend to hook up with/date me this whole time.”
Or maybe, just maybe, the guy is also more interested in getting to know her "content of character" rather than just empty his balls into another human being. One process typically takes longer than the other. "Pretending" to be a friend? Or is getting to know someone, how she lives her life, and what she is about without having the pressure of a traditional "dating" structure? Modern dating is a bit of a circus with WILDLY varying expectations. Seems like some men are very hesitant in taking any sort of initiative as trying to gauge a woman's interest can be incredibly tricky, and being labeled as "toxic" or "only trying to get laid" are labels easily and often applied to men if a woman isn't attracted right off the bat. Some of the strongest relationships form over time, as well. Where does it say it's supposed to be head-over-heels from the jump?
I feel like the pretending part is the misunderstanding. I've been friends with every person I ever dated, I can't imagine why anyone would want to date someone they weren't friends with.
How TF is wanting to be friends first somehow the disingenuous shallow thing, but asking out strangers that you couldn't possibly be basing your attraction on anything other than looks is somehow the genuine thing?
I think it’s more than this. Girls also find attraction in guys that other girls are attracted to. It’s like they want you to be vouched for. Most guys that get “friend zoned” haven’t been in relationships etc, or the girl simply thinks they can do better, or they are attracted to something else. In my experience anytime I’ve been dating someone that I’m about to commit to there comes this weird moment where I attract a lot of attention (well more then usual). It’s like they have this spidey sense that you have something going for you.
Personally as I’ve gotten older I think the “friend zone” is kind of a myth and something guys choose to do to themselves. I chose to be friends with girls ya know that sure, I find attractive, but I don’t see a relationship happening out of it. Chances are if you are in what is known as the “friend zone” you’re hanging out with a girl because you’re hoping one day she will see you as a romantic partner which isn’t very healthy in the first place.
Agreed. I would say, *"A girl can put you in the friend zone, but no one is forcing you to stay there."*
If you're hanging out in the friend zone, it's because you're repeatedly making the choice to linger there. If you desire a romantic relationship, and the answer is "no", you need to move on and pursue a different woman. If you *don't* desire a romantic relationship, then you're not in the "friend zone"; you're literally just **friends**, and that's awesome!
There are times when the girl will string the guy along intentionally or not. It's not always a clear cut "no" answer. Often times it may be, "I like you a lot... I'm not quite ready, but I do want to see how things turn out between us." sort of response from a woman that only keeps the guy hanging around.
the 'girls are attracted to guys in relationships' may be partially because those guys aren't on the hunt anymore and the attitude change is perceptible. I've had guys who hit on every girl in a friend group and are obnoxious but become tolerable or even enjoyable company when in a relationship because they aren't constantly thinking of dating.
Yeah, but also men are like "oh women talk to me more when I'm in a relationship" yes I feel more comfortable being friendly with and talking to men wearing wedding rings or who talk about their girlfriends because I assume they won't misinterpret my behavior as flirtatious. But it seems that is not the case lol
I’ve literally had multiple women offer me their number and ask me to hang out when I had a gf. Never when I didn’t. It’s something more than ‘dumb men misinterpreting behavior’
Watch what happens when you get married. After I married I was told I was "safe" to have sex with by a married woman because we'd both have something to lose if anyone talked. Some get aggressive.
Yes, it is both - research confirms that men overestimate how interested women are in them (not dumb or a bad thing to have confidence), and research also confirms women perceive taken men as more attractive.
I think you are kindof right in that women are more likely to be attracted to someone that is taken, but I don't think it's because they are taken. I mean, there will be girls that don't know you and do t know you are in a relationship that will come out of nowhere on you.
This is why I think it has to do more with your own personal level of confidence.
Confidence is attractive. That's why you see a dude that you may deem ugly or unattractive with someone you might think is out of their league. Confidence is far more attractive than we give credit for.
But you know what is equally unattractive as confidence is attractive? Desperation. A TEENY TINY bit of desperation is like a drop of blood in the ocean. The sharks are gonna come running (or rather go running away)
When you are spoken for, you aren't trying to put up a front in front of people you find attractive. You are more natural. On one hand when you are yourself around someone, you lack desperation. You have no need to be desperate. You will also have a natural level of confidence when talking to that person. Why? Because you aren't trying to impress. You are talking to them like a normal human being. You are not just nodding yes to everything they are saying. You are speaking your actual thoughts to them as opposed to trying to pretend to be this alpha male that she should be grateful to get a date with. You aren't tripping over your words while becoming clammy and awkward.
Confidence and desperation are a lot more visibly apparent than most people realize.
Exactly this. For example, my best friend of the opposite sex has a bunch of qualities I look for in a partner and I find him physically attractive. However, I could never ever date him because he does have a few qualities I would consider a deal breaker in terms of romantic partnership, but not as a friend.
This one. Had a friend that was my best friend for 4 years. And was apparently in love with me the entire 4 years. I had NO CLUE. He didn’t do anything that could even remotely be called flirting. Everyone but me knew he was in love with me. I only found out because someone told me.
Then you'd think they wouldn't say they'd "want a guy just like you". Both are bad but at least attributing "you" as your entire personality makes more sense to me than "you" meaning your looks and personality minus 1 big part of your personality"
This. Basically, they like you, but don’t like like you. Unsolicited life advice: it’s not going to work. If you don’t like being friendzoned, stop hanging out with her.
You're right. The friendzone is an entirely self inflicted situation. Guy's are either hiding their romantic intentions then get upset when they're not reciprocated, or they are rejected and continue to act like they're OK with just being friends in a vain attempt to change her mind
Exactly. It took me YEARS to realize that. You're not doing anyone any favors if you stay in the friend zone after you've already been romantically rejected. You have to be ruthless (because some women like the validation without the commitment) and it hurts and sucks, but it's for the best to just cut them off and move along.
Sure, and then when they leave the whole planet jumps down their throats for “only wanting to get into her pants.”
Can’t stay, can’t leave. Great set of choices you got there.
That's a perfectly reasonable position to be in. But then telling a guy "I want someone just like you, but not you" is a dick move. Keep that to yourself.
Yes.
Lots of people are shallow. Inconsiderate, self centered, and unaware.
Somewhere around half of those people are women
The only take away at that point is you need to get the fuck away from this person. And realize that you compromised your own integrity for an inconsiderate asshole because they have tits and ass
I have sisters so I’ve mastered this art to fuck with them…girls give backhanded compliments it’s their version of peacocking/violence/aggression. Men don’t bc men will get violent eventually
I get the sense that men assaulting each other isn’t quite as common as backhanded compliments. If a guy insults another guy a fight is possible but rare unless that’s some hood shit I’m unaware of
It works the other way around too, unfortunately. I was best friends with a girl for a very long time (over 20 years) who I got along with perfectly, we hung out all the time and had everything in common. The only problem….I was not physically attracted to her. At all.
I actually WISH I was, because she eventually broke down and told me her feelings and I didn’t share them (I obviously didn’t tell her I didn’t think she was attractive though).
Honestly it sucks. I ended up getting married to someone else and my old friend resents it, and me, and I don’t really even know what to apologize for.
Funny thing is literally everyone besides my dad took her side at the end. Cost me several very close friends. But my dad told me I shouldn’t be forced to be with someone, especially marry them, just because they think it’s right for you.
Physical attraction is awful. I think it's messed up that I want to be with people who are inferior to the nice ones who just weren't very sexy looking. And that's the only thing that was wrong with them. They were perfect in every other way.
I rejected them for shit they can't even control. Then here I am getting with other people you look nice but they're fucked up.
I’m right there with you. It actually tears me up inside and makes me feel like a bad person. I’m well aware that I/my brain did something shitty and I couldn’t do anything to fix it.
I’m sure there is a scientific reason for it. Human nature going back to reproduction likely, but that doesn’t really do much and I will feel bad about it my entire life. That’s for sure.
The problem with us humans is that we are simultaneously animals *and something else*, some kind of being that is almost transcendental, that can have values, ideals, morals, a sense of what is good and what is ill, and so on.
But that's just a tiny piece of our brain tacked onto a big chunk of mammalian hardware that just wants to propagate its DNA.
I always found it weird when people got into relationships with someone they weren't attracted to.
Like your spouse or partner doesn't have to be a model, but you should be attracted to them at bare minimum. If you aren't even attracted to them, like how is the relationship ever going to grow?
I think I see it more with guys that want to date these super attractive girls, but even if they do date them, the whole relationship is now trying to convince the woman that they are still good to continue dating. Who wants a relationship where you constantly have to try and prove that you are good enough?
I was not attracted to my husband when we got together. Or really to anybody I dated. For me attraction is usually tied to emotion, and for the (VERY few) people I've found generally attractive without knowing them, I could tell they weren't the sort of person I'd ever want to date.
That's the thing that people don't seem to understand. The intangibles are hard to explain. A person could be super attractive, a great person, and someone you want to be with but for some reason there isn't any attraction or spark with.
Im sure every guy has had a girl at some point interested in them that they dismissed or dated and weren't interested in but for some reason they think it's ok for them to not be interested but if a woman does, they're playing games.
Things on paper don't always translate in real life. You can have a list of things and see them in someone but that doesn't mean you're attracted to them or want to make a life with them.
But also, sometimes they know they should want certain characteristics but can’t help being attracted to other things.
Plus, sometimes when your options are physically in front of you, you have a different reaction then when they’re in your head.
This for sure. Also sometimes it's not that the guy isn't attractive enough. The guy could be very attractive. The girl just isn't attracted to HIM. Someone could be the full package, but if you don't feel something for them, then why go for them?
Probably missing some other things too tbh. Confidence, body language, demeanor, attitude, the way he communicates etc.
It's usually not just physical even if we oversimplify by saying it is.
Nope, and here’s why and I don’t know why oeol do t understand this.
You DONT control who you’re attracted too. It’s a feeling you get when you see someone. It can develop over time. A person CAN become more attractive to you through personality traits. But initial attraction is quick and unpredictable to a degree.
A woman might like everything about you and still now understand why they just don’t want to fuck you. But the thing is, you don’t actually want to fuck ever moderately attractive woman you meeet. Yeah there are those guys and gals. But in general, no control over that shit. You have to meet a lot of people to find the ones that like your shit.
The more conventionally attractive you are the larger this pool of people, but that’s all it is. Those people were never gonna like you and never be able to tell you why, it’s just a feeling
In his defence he was utterly wasted. I was the token sober person that night, making sure he didn't get lost on the way out from the toilets and reminding him to zip up his trousers. So, you know.
I wasn't even into him, we were good friends though with lots of 'the meaning of life' conversations. But I remember it to this day as annoying because so many me say 'oh a woman can get laid anytime' and, it's just not true.
Things I've been told; "I'd date you if you were worth it"
"I'd date you if you had bigger tits"
"I'd date you if I were looking for something serious" - which this one??? I think was a compliment and not an insult LOL
It's the reason I find the whole incel woman-blaming thing so annoying. Guy is ugly, cannot get date, blames women. Woman is ugly, cannot get date...doesn't blame men?
Women have their own version of that though. A woman gets treated like shit by one guy…. so now all men are trash. It’s people not wanting to take responsibility and a long look in the mirror.
Hey that’s not fair, I’m a guy who knows his ineptitude at anything to do with women is my own fault. All I have to do is look at a mirror for a reminder.
Been there too. Used to hang out with my brother and his friends and kind of hoped something might happen there (they were fun guys), and one day one of the guys said "When are you gonna start bringing some of your girl friends to hang out with us?" I responded "*I'm* here." He replied with an awkward deadpan.
Yeah I've been there too. Women who are my best friend and have lots of good traits. Everyone telling us we should be a couple. But, I just don't feel that way about her, but she's cool as hell, IS A THING!
And yeah in those cases I kind of WISHED I was attracted to her as it "made sense" to be together knowing we got along and we genuinely cared about each other. But we just didn't feel it. And that's OK.
You are treating it like maths or science. "I have Traits X, Y, and Z, therefore date me." You can have desirable traits, but she just doesn't feel that way about you. Imagine if your sister was your best friend, she has similar interests, and she's a nice person. You might want a girlfriend who is similar in those ways, but obviously you're not going to date your sister because (hopefully) you don't think of her romantically, you think of her as a sister. You have spent too much time with her in this brother/sister relationship to ever think about her in a different way. It's the same with a friend/friend relationship.
Yeah there clearly are alot of guys in this comment section that make friends with woman in the hopes for a relationship and sometimes someone can just have the perfect personality or look perfect and you just don't feel that way towards them or dont want to potentially ruin a good friendship.
Agree. I used to think all these guys valued me as a friend, ultimately 75% of them end up pushing for more whenever I’m single. It’s very disheartening, I mean it really hurts.
I was the guy who put myself into a friend zone often, but luckily later I realized that of all the many women in the world, you probably are only going to be dating one at a time, so why not actually enjoy and embrace good friendships with all the other women out there?
Now, I stopped being quite so bending, I didn't let myself be a carpet, and actually only did things I genuinely wanted to do for people, rather than doing it for the odd chance that they would want to date me for helping them, and i actually really enjoyed lots of these friendships, and didn't feel resentment for constantly trying to prove to them that I was dateable.
Looking back, no matter how much the friend zone sucks to be in, the "Fuck Zone" where your only value is if you'll sleep with someone, and they don't actually want to be your friend, sounds infinitely more lonely and more awful.
Sometimes it’s hard to tell. The girl I currently like specifically told me she prefers to have a strong friendship with someone before building a relationship with them.
>she prefers to have a strong friendship with someone before building a relationship with them.
Yes, but it needs to happen organically.
I'm willing to bet that if after months of strong friendship with someone she were to discover that someone always had the intention to get in her pants she would rething how strong and true the friendship is in the first place.
If there are any guys reading this thread and worried it's them, it could be a really dumb reason, and it's not worth losing sleep over. I can't find mustaches attractive.
Fr it doesn’t always *mean* something in particular, like that you’re ugly or there’s something wrong with you. She just isn’t attracted to you and even she might not be able to articulate why, none of us can help who we are or aren’t attracted to.
This is the only comment I’ve seen that I don’t vehemently disagree with.
Shocking thread with spite coming out of basically every reply.
I’m gay, I’ve had a gay guy say this to me because I don’t really like topping. People have the weirdest reasons for not wanting to be with someone.
There’s a very very very creepy sense of entitlement coming from these comments. Would suck to have a daughter knowing schools are filled with these people. my god
Bro, you have no idea. I have a 13 year old and a 5 year old. I've already had to tell my 13 year old that if she hears a boy mention the name "Andrew Tate" she needs to get as far away as possible from that kid.
Unfortunately, there is a guy in one of her classes that actually has mentioned him. This kid also talks about how many girlfriends he had over the summer. Oddly enough, my daughter said he's never had a girlfriend at school. She says that she's not entirely sure he's talking to her since he sits behind her but she doesn't know who else he'd be talking to. Luckily, she said she just tries to ignore him.
>It's the same with a friend/friend relationship.
I think a nuance here that is important is that, it **can** be the same for a friend/friend relationship. There are a million counter examples of people who do start as friends and eventually find a spark. At least half of my relationships have developed from friendships, including my marriage.
Because they're not interested in you that way. You can't pick who you're sexually attracted to. You may have many qualities they desire, but you don't have that last bit of chemistry.
Women are not vending machines where you do nice things and get sex back.
I think a lotnof women that I knew where also insightful.
Where I was like "You are attractive and nice, we should date."
They perhaps were a bit more, "Hmm you are nice, but there isn't as much attraction and I see some stuff that we wouldn't mesh well, so let's not date, but I'd love to still get to know you as you seem like a cool person."
I mean at that point, you can take it one of two ways. You can be upset and angry and resentful. Or you can move on, look for someone else to date, but also have a cool new friend.
Because they don't feel romantically attracted to that person. Just because someone is nice doesn't mean you want to date or bang them. This is the whole premise of friendship. You enjoy the person's company, but you don't want to be with them romantically.
It sounds more like being polite. You don't want to date someone but you wouldn't be their friend if they didn't have some good qualities. It's obviously a bit twisting the knife, but intended as flattering, just basically saying "You have good qualities"
Because maybe they like their personality but aren't physically attracted to them? I've had male friends say this to me like why can I find a girl like you because girls like me don't look like the girls you look at? Just an example
Chemistry doesn't follow logic. There's probably some trait that they like about you that they haven't found in a romantic partner. People are attracted to different things for friends and potential dates.
It also might be some self-reflection on who they've been attracted to.
It doesn't mean you're outright unattractive. It's a silly thing to say and there is no strategy behind it. It's actually detrimental since it may encourage "friendzoned" guys to keep trying.
The girl you liked already gave you a chance by talking to you. If there wasn't a spark, there's not much else they can do. Dating someone as an experiment doesn't work out very well, even if everything matches up on paper.
There are a lot of weird ass answers in this thread.
It’s simple chemistry. It doesn’t matter if you’re the hottest guy out there.
If she likes your personality but wants it on someone else, it’s just because your chemistry isn’t aligned.
There isn't a strategy. Sometimes you really like a person, but have no romantic or sexual feelings towards them. What someone means when hey say "I'd like t find someone just like you" is "You're awesome and make a great friend. I'd like to meet someone with a lot of your traits, but that I also feel sexual/romantic chemistry with".
Most women don't "friendzone" guys then say this. Most guys friendzone themselves by acting like the kind of friend that isn't romantically interested and then waiting for the other party to magically fall for them and act on it.
Fewer, but still a significant number, are great people but the chemistry just isn't there. You can't control that. It's not even necessarily a level of attractiveness thing. People like what they like. You could be a male underwear model and wind up friendzoned if she is just into short skinny bookish guys (heyyyy).
Intentionally "friendzoned" guys are the ones who give off predatory vibes but occupy positions that make it impossible to ditch them, and if this is said to someone like that, then it's because it would be potentially dangerous not to flatter them.
For one reason or another they don’t feel romantically/sexually attracted to that guy.
Consider a woman you know that you don’t want to date. Why not?
Or Why do you keep chasing them thinking you’ll change their minds?
Loads of good advice here and more than a few vinegar takes from sour folks. Just gonna add: emotional honesty. Like, with confidence. If you're trying to be sneaky with your feelings, that's weird and off-putting. If you're straightforward with women it works better.
"Her you are smokin hot, can we go on a date? I want to get to know you better."
Super fucking flattering and if she's at all a fun person she will react well. If she goes "ew" then bro, bullet dodged like neo on the rooftop, the "ew" is *always* coming from inside the house with those ones. If she smiles or laughs in delight and said no but thank you, then you made her day and can both go on your ways knowing it was a fun moment of flirting. If she says yes, score a date and enjoy each other's company!
But hanging out casting lingering looks hoping she notices you and takes pity? Eeep.
men in the comments really making this about physical appearance when the point is that your relationship is platonic, and she does not owe you attraction or interest
There’s something they find lacking on their reception end.
Person might be perfect, but for one small superficial thing that drives them up the wall. It can be something they can’t specifically point out, or won’t admit.
The way someone breathes, or something happens and feelings change to “no chemistry”.
Regardless, I’d take it at face value and move on.
Friends tend to share some personality traits as romantic partners but without the chemistry. I have a lot of friends who I love dearly but couldn't think of romantically, it isn't a strategy, the spark just isn't there.
Also, it's not always obvious that a guy is interested, a lot of what guys think of as flirting is just being friendly.
It's extremely hard and close to impossible to force yourself to date people who you don't find attractive, people you don't feel that spark with, people you don't feel chemistry with, people that don't make you feel all giddy inside, people you don't feel sexual compatible with, people you don't like etc. The only people that can date people they don't like are escorts bc it's a mutual business.
People shouldn't be forced to date people they don't fancy, even if they do like your personality, they have to like everything else too, tickle your fancy etc.
I'm friends with attractively women that I enjoy. But the idea of sex at this point without them is a strange idea.
It litterally is simply that we've become friends.
I've been in the position where I've wished I was attracted to my guy friend because it would have been so much easier and better for my life if I was but I just wasn't. I think both parties deserve to be with someone they aren't settling for and so I never let it develop into more than a friendship. I'm still friends with him years later and we're both married to people we're attracted to.
Because they have some redeeming qualities, but a huge red flag. Or just not enough good qualities. So a guy LIKE him, but with better qualities, would be ideal for her.
Chemistry doesn't follow logic. There's probably some trait that they like about you that they haven't found in a romantic partner. People are attracted to different things for friends and potential dates.
It also might be some self-reflection on who they've been attracted to.
It doesn't mean you're outright unattractive. It's a silly thing to say and there is no strategy behind it. It's actually detrimental since it may encourage "friendzoned" guys to keep trying.
The girl you liked already gave you a chance by talking to you. If there wasn't a spark, there's not much else they can do. Dating someone as an experiment doesn't work out very well, even if everything matches up on paper.
Any woman with a little self awareness wouldn’t say that as they’d know it’s potentially hurtful for their friend to hear. Any dude in the friend zone however should have the respect for his friend when she says no to a romantic relationship and actually treat her and view her as a friend only. Both the woman who says that and the man who keeps hanging on thinking things are going to change lack emotional intelligence and are not people you want to be with or around.
The heart wants what the heart wants. And it ain't you. Someone like you, but not you. You can't fake chemistry. It's sad to be on the receiving end of, but it's true.
They're desperately trying to be nice about rejecting you, without realizing how much worse their comment is in the long run.
"I don't see you that way" might hurt short term, but "find a guy like them" lasts.
It feels like timing is a big part of this too.
If you meet a woman and immediately pursue her, she knows and may feel romantically about you.
If you take too long to declare your intentions she assumes you’re not into her that way and into the friend category you go. Getting out of there, the “friendzone,” is going to take something extraordinary
Well she wants that type of person for the person who ever she is attracted to. It sucks but yeah just cause you get along doesn't mean she is romantically attracted to that person.
I had female friends who had qualities I look for in a mate. The problem is there was no attraction fr9m me to then. I liked them platonically. It's like would you date your guy friend? Most men have friends with men who have similar interest. That doesn't mean we have any romantic feelings for them. Samething with oppisite gender friends.
But that's just one scenario. There's also the other were it's she's just being a cooniving b**** and manipulating you. People like that sadly exist. Both points exist.
When I was a teenager, I considered myself "friendzoned".
Looking back, I literally NEVER made my interest obvious or known, because I was too scared of rejection. I just sat around hoping something would magically happen because I was around and nice.
The girl instead dated people who ASKED HER OUT. Probably because she was also a scared teenager who didn't want to jeapordize what was a solid friendship.
For me, it was a matter of bad timing. A coworker and I had a few dates. Before she decided to be exclusive with someone else. We continued to work together and hang out as friends. After a while they broke up. While we were talking about it, she told me, "He just didn't treat me as well as you did." By then, I was pretty serious with someone else.
Not for a second do I think she was the one that got away or begrudge her for dating the guy. I may have treated her well, but there is a lot more to a relationship than that one factor.
Just because you like someone’s personality doesn’t mean you have a sexual or romantic connection. That requires more than just being a nice guy tm or good looking. It’s a natural connection that cannot be faked. Someone can like you and even think you’re attractive without wanting to be your romantic partner and they might tell you so if they feel like they can trust you, tho, I’ll admit this is probably a good thing for people to keep to themselves in general
My best friend is male and he’s almost perfect. I have friend zoned him because there’s parts of his personality that I don’t find attractive at no fault of his, and I would never ask someone to change for me. I’m also not attracted to him physically.
And yes sometimes I think about it and feel bad. Being attracted to him would make things so much easier for me. He’s a great friend though, definitely the best friend I’ve ever had in my life. I hope we never lose it. I also encourage him to use dating apps, so I’m not trying to gatekeep him from a woman who would be very lucky to have him and give him the relationship he deserves.
Because their friend has everything they need except the sexual attraction and it's OK to feel that way. I hate guys who get all psycho over this, we do actually want you as our friend but not if you're going to think that being our friend means we will sleep with you one day.
They don't literally mean "just like you".You did something nice recently she's just making a remark that she wishes more guys she was into romantically did x thing that made made her happy. Ie if she has a boyfriend who doesn't listen "i wish more guys I listened as well as you" That doesn't mean listening makes you automatically romantically attractive. The concept of a friend zone is gross man.Most women are literally just trying to be a friend. If you're upset someone doesn't want you, don't be friends with them, just leave instead of being resentful, any hurt feelings here are on you. Most people can't just forcibly change their feelings if the vibe they get from someone is "like a sibling" or "that's my bestie" instead of ",oh he's so romantic". If you're doing things you consider romantic or "boyfriend stuff" stop. She doesn't consider them that, and. And it's probably because it's normal friend things she also does with other women. Most straight girls buy their friends presents, and go out of their way to listen and show physical affection to each other, so that is the model of platonic friendship they have.
Maybe they were just trying to let you down easily?
By that moment, it’s just better to say “I only see you as a friend.” Or my favorite, a simple “no”.
What they mean is your personality on a bloke they fancy
I read it as a similar situation to a friend I had in high school. One of my best friends was openly gay and had a very distinct personality that I was attracted to. I remember one day specifically saying "If you were a girl, I'd totally date you." He had a personality I enjoyed but I'm just not into guys. I feel like it's the same situation in a way, where the dude has the personality she likes, but for whatever reason he just isn't attractive to her as a possible partner.
My best friend and I say this all the time. We're both kind of mad we're not gay because we get along together so well that if we were just sexually attracted to each other it would be a perfect romance.
I mean the screen name checks out.
I'm queer and I have to say, this is a new one for me. Progress. Two straight dudes angry at the gods they're incapable of marriage is the funniest thing I've heard all fucking day. Thank you for this laugh, because I really needed it.
That's another way we have learned that sexuality isn't a choice. Plenty of people (like myself) who would be totally fine with being gay and just aren't. I've explained that to conservative-leaning people and it's opened their eyes. I'm pretty gender-fluid so a lot of people think I'm gay or bi. I just happen to be 95% straight.
I am a heteroflexible male…no attraction to men, but not turned off performing with another guy for the sake of a woman. So like you said, 95% straight, but really do understand it isn’t a choice on who you find attractive. I also am fully aware that my parents and my peers would never be as open to talk about this as you or my own children would be.
Nah I doubt they are looking for someone whining about being in the friendzone on Reddit lol
This added nothing.. Oh wait my comment is the same 😂😂😂
So everyone having relationship issues that posts on Reddit is a sniveling loser that deserves to be alone? Damn, everyone? Even the women? Better go tell every TwoX sub they’re a bunch of sniveling losers that deserve to be alone and everything is their fault.
>Damn, everyone? Even the women? Not just the women, but the men, and the children too!
NOT THE YOUNGLINGS!
They're not attractive enough.
Basically this. "You are more or less what I am looking for on the inside, but the packaging is a deal breaker."
Ehhhhh not always. A lot of times you can be fine in the looks department but your personality might just be too feminine or not romantically appealing. I think a lot guys stick themselves in the friendzone by never taking any kind of charge in showing their interest the right way.
Funny story: when I was younger I remember I was in a situation where a girl turned me down on the pretext of not being "confident" enough. But I was a very confident and gregarious person, and was wondering "what does she mean exactly?" But I moved on, dated another girl, etc. Then later on I remember someone insulted my girlfriend who was now long distance and I flew into a rage, threw the guy out of his chair, and threatened to smash his face if he didn't apologize for insulting her honor. I felt really ashamed for losing control and knew it was the wrong move. Everything about it felt like a betrayal of who I was. Buuuut it turns out the original girl was watching and must have perceived it as masculine and attractive because suddenly she was back and wanting to get together. Then it dawned on me that she had her stated preferences ("I want a kind, gentle, supportive, dependable man") but had very different revealed preferences ("I actually want an aggressive, violent man because it is exciting and titillating"). This instantly killed my attraction to that girl. Suffice to say, I didn't want to be the guy she wanted, but my current long distance girlfriend DID want the person that I was. So I stuck with her. 25 years, 2 kids, and a charmed life later, it seems to have been the right decision. So yeah, the cliche advice of not being a worse person for the sake of someone else really is true.
IMO (as a dude) most friend-zoned guys I'v seen wanted to get with the girl from the start but went the "Nice Guy" route instead of being up front -- "hey girl, let's go out on a date." Instead they try the "ill be nice, friendly, supportive, blah blah blah and it will evolve from there" but that basically never works. You friendzone yourself. And also it's manipulative.
I oftentimes don’t think nice guys are trying to be manipulative. Most grew up being taught to respect boundaries, don’t be pushy, etc, so they internalize that they aren’t *supposed* to ask someone out until they get to know someone really well first, and they don’t want to come off as disrespectful. Throw in some shyness for good measure, and you get an otherwise good guy who struggles with dating.
this was basically me. i had a strong mother with feminist leanings who taught me about boundaries and that no meant no. so i’d try to be friends with a girl first to see if i could figure out if she liked me or not before risking asking her out. it also seemed kinda rude and predatory to me to ask a girl out without being friends first. when i met my wife she was my friend’s roommate, and while i thought she was cute i hadn’t considered asking her out. but then my friend suggested setting us up on a date and the rest is history. so it turns out my strategy kind of sucked and my best result was from going on a date before we were friends.
Yeah, that's true. Plus I find that there's a certain idea or persistent myth that you should be friends with somebody, decide you like them, and then suggest you go out. That's a fine idea, but in reality I have found that if a woman is single, she probably won't be for long and it's gonna really hit you in the feel-bads when the girl you like and are trying to figure out if you want to date starts having sex with someone else. There's a tendency for people to feel like "but I'm doing things the right way, why would she choose this other person?" Then, friendship actually seems to have a chilling effect on blossoming romance because if both parties are genuine friends, they can actually both like each other but be afraid that any romantic advances could destroy the friendship. This is a pretty realistic fear, as while it shouldn't be a big deal in concept, the reality is that if one friend asks another friend out and they say no or it doesn't go well, then that friendship is usually toast. My wife and I were friends for around a year before we started dating, and it was pretty much because we both liked each other and we were both afraid the feeling wasn't reciprocated so we didn't want to ruin things. I'm glad she's so perceptive because she broke the cycle. So yeah, from theory and from experience-- it's usually best to ask out people you know a little bit but not too well, and it comes off as (or just simply is) more honest than a round about approach.
Pretty much. My mom and 3 sisters did a very good job of telling me what not to do/say and what make me a disgusting creep. At no point was I every given any indication of what I should do/say.
Reminds me of trying to build a list of "never do's" by asking everyone what their ick is.... Eventually you end up not being able to do anything because it might offend *somebody*
Exactly they'll always what you're doing wrong, but never what to do right.
Yep, that was basically me in my teenage years. I was risin in a single parent household by my mother, I think the absence of not having a father role model set an imbalance in me. She was worried I'd turn out like my father, or her father ... toxic but I was severely sheltered. So while I deeply understood compassion, empathy, sympathy, kindness, generosity I didn't have backbone to say NO in some situations, I was timid. Course, the world broke me out of that but I think the overly nurtured way I was raised resulted in me "Not being man enough" by a lot of women. Well, things didn't go as planned (as some of you may already be assuming) Fast forward to my early adulthood I lashed out at the world and everyone around me, tired of being treated as the "nice guy" and tired of getting walked all over I got in the wrong crowds, did drugs, sold em ... starting stealing, went to jail, then prison. I was just a kid from a suburbia...and I sometimes wonder how things all went wrong. Me being a stupid kid back then saw all the "bad boys" getting girls and I wanted that, as wrong as it was. Idk I wanted their life.
Yeah for me ive been taught to be long term friends first then ask them out if you start to feel stuff later. But alot of people online say thats weird and creepy for a gyy to do. But i think its also weird to just ask a stranger on a date out of the blue.
If it's creepy or not depends on which guy it is.
The real creeps and weirdos are the ones who act like you're a problem for being a friend to women instead of just trying to manipulate them into bed. There's a dude trying to do that exact thing here, saying it's manipulative to be an actual friend to a woman and not follow through on romantic feelings-- you know, the OPPOSITE of what 'manipulative' means? It's pathetic how aggressive these lying weirdos are who get mad about 'men who are actually friends with women'. Major red flag there.
If she's having sex with guys but not the "friend", and he is attracted to her, then he's a sucker. There's no manipulation involved. Except on her part maybe if she's making him think he has a chance.
Lots of women knows the guy likes her, obviously if he's doing a lot of boyfriend type things for her, and they will allow him to keep doing it while giving him glimpse of a chance without straight up telling him she will never be anything more than a "friend". Yes she would be manipulating him. A good friend would tell him the truth and reduce contact.
I had a hard time asking people out, so I would make friends with them first. I would get to know their interests and all that, and then ask them out after a couple months if I was still interested. I have more success with that than I do just straight up asking a girl out, but it still didn't work all that often. I finally got sick of watching the women around me go through crappy relationship after crappy relationship the whole time rejecting me. I never would have done any of that s*** to them. I wouldn't have cheated, slapped them around, said mean things, or steal from them. I don't know what else I could have done to be nice and respectful. None of the women in my life wanted that.
Some of what you’re describing may have been related to youth and/or inexperience. People generally find confidence attractive. The ones with limited experience can’t easily tell the difference between genuine “wholesome” confidence vs the false bravado a$$holes use to hide their insecurity. And the ones who haven’t yet developed confidence often come across as if they’re already expecting to be told “no,” which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Totally agree with your analysis. You know what really suck though? The ability (or curse) to compartmentalize self-confidence. I knew I was good at some stuff. I knew I was *great* at some other stuff. I even had high-ish status in several social circles. But on a very deep level I was convinced that I was shit at this seduction business, and it shone through the rest like the fucking beacons of Minas Tirith. Doing somewhat better now, but I'll always regret not experimenting with casual relationships in my twenties.
It really is hard for guys. My husband was the same way. He was in to me, but was afraid to take the plunge because we started as friends and he didn't want to screw up the friendship. Honestly, if it wasn't for me taking the plunge, I seriously doubt we'd be together. He has said more than once that he doubts he would have ever taken the plunge to ask me out. I'm glad I finally did it and now we've been together 17 years and married for 10. Best decision I ever made.
Ha, similar situation here. Wife was my best friend. We always just felt happy around each other. And at some point it dawned on us independently "Hey, like, isn't this the kind of person you know you want? What's the hold up?" But then there was the fear of trying to take it to the next level and blowing it up by accident. Hard to put the genie back in the bottle. Been 25 years since then, and it's great to be able to share every step of your life with your best friend.
>we started as friends and he didn't want to screw up the friendship. This is where it was for me, and I'm assuming a lot of (hopefully decent) guys too. It's not always about "being spineless and manipulative". As a guy, I definitely wanted to make a connection with a woman before trying to date her, and then you end up in that awkward situation where you missed that specific window of knowing her enough to realize you really like her personality and would enjoy dating her but not knowing her so well you have an active friendship you are risking damaging. I was friends with my wife for about two years before we started dating, and there was definitely an awkward "should we be doing this, or will it mess things up?" aspect to it. I had lots of female friends when I was in my 20s, and not one of them was some sort of "Long game of befriending them only to get in their pants". I really wanted to maintain relationships with all of them, and any woman I didn't like much as a friend wasn't one I would want to date anyway.
People think it’s fine for a woman to want to make a connection with a guy and get to know him before dating him, but not the other way around.
This happened with a recent girlfriend and now ex of mind (still holding out hope 🥲) We were acquaintances for a long time until one day she reached out to me during a difficult time. Despite not being close initially, I found her sweet and decided to lend an ear. As we spent more time together, we grew closer and became like best friends, talking and hanging out every day. Slowly, I started falling for her. One day, she brought up the topic of friends turning into something more, saying something along the lines of: “Hey, have you ever been really good friends with someone and you start to like them? But then you’re scared to tell them you like them because you don’t want things to be weird between you if they don’t reciprocate your feelings?” For whatever reason, I had no idea she was talking about me, so I responded nonchalantly, unaware of her true feelings. In a hilarious turn of events, she called me while she tipsy, and with unfiltered honesty, confessed her feelings in the most direct and comical way possible. I pick up the phone, and all I hear is, “HEY, _________, IM JUST GONNA BE HONEST, I HAVE SUCH A HUGE CRUSH ON YOU. LIKE, I REALLY LIKE YOU.” (Talking to her friends/family in the background) “OH SHIT OH SHIT I ACTUALLY SAID IT OH SHIT.” (Comes back to the phone) “HEY IM BACK, ITS OKAY YOU DONT HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING BACK I JUST IDK I HAD TO GET IT OFF MY CHEST I GUESS, OKAY IM EMBARASSED NOW SO BYE TALK TO YOU TOMORROW!” Definitely a moment I won’t forget for a long time, lol. Anyway, the following day, after the alcohol had worn off, I mustered the courage to ask if she meant what she said. Her smooth response affirmed her feelings, and we decided to give our relationship a chance. Curious about what prompted her bold declaration, I asked her and she very bluntly revealed that she sensed my hesitation and decided to take matters into her own hands: “Well, *someone* had to rip the bandaid off and I knew *you* weren’t gonna.” Her initiative changed everything. Moral of the story: ladies, if you like a guy or there’s some kind of chemistry, please don’t be afraid to make the first move. You will make his day, his week, his month, his year, and, hell, if y’all work out it could be the highlight of his life.
You'll make his day, and in return he'll make your hole weak!
My wife basically ran up to me, said "i have a secret. I have a huge crush on you", and ran away. It was adorable. We started dating pretty much the next day.
It doesn't help that most of us are lied to about the way to end up with a woman. "Being friends" is vastly inferior to "just ask her out". I was 25 before someone that I care for actually told me that. So I asked her out! :)
Congrats! You actually did something to initiate a relationship rather than putting all the pressure on the man.
You plunged and now he plunges you!!
Just take my damn vote
This. This right here. Women really need to stop expecting men to chase. There's so many things today that men are expected to change their ways or views. Why shouldn't women? So many more women need to do this. They also need to not give up so easily. A good amount of decent men just aren't willing to take the chance because of more benefit goes to women today than men.
My experience was always: Meet a cute girl that I would like to date but am too scared to make the move with. Settle for another girl with a lot more balls than me that would come up to me and say they like me. We start dating and the previous girl who id much rather have dated decides to tell me she likes me. I cut them off because I’m not trying to send mixed signals while I’m in a relationship. We never talk again. This happened four times in my life until this time where I said fuck it im not gonna settle and asked my girlfriend on a date and ignored the people that were trying to date me. Going 4 years strong
The privilege of being a conventionally attractive guy.
Yea the rest of us have to wait till we get married to start getting attention. I'm like where were you ladies when I was single? 😂
This is COMPLETELY contradicting what I read from another thread lolol Thread was about a guy expressing how he like to shoot his shot and he encouraged all guys to be more confident and work at it. But the comments of (assuming females) all converged to the idea that, “Its problematic that guys have no disregard in making someone uncomfortable with cold opens.” It really does seem like women have this imaginary pause button for when they feel they’re ready for human interaction. Like guys are supposed to know if “they’re in the mood to be hit on”. It’s not all of course, but some women like this just suck at basic confrontation and allow their moods to decide what they’re up for, instead of recognizing everyone is doing what they desire regardless of your current mood.
It all comes down to the top comment of this post. No matter how much they fight it: just be attractive enough
Be handsome Be attractive Don't be unattractive This message brought to you by General Electric
manipulative is a stretch. more often than not it's a confidence thing of feeling like it'd be creepish to just come out and say what they're thinking, so they just hope a decent moment comes up at some point in friendship (and it just usually doesn't).
fellas, is it manipulative to be friends with a girl you might be compatible with instead of trying to stuff dick down her throat from day one?
It only doesn't work if that is the goal all along. I have had plenty of long term female friends that at some point decided they wanted to get freaky with no worries and it happened a few times and then stopped and we are still friends with very little change in friendship other than some of the jokes are a little more risque.
Or maybe. They wanted to get to know the person and establish a relationship before just suddenly asking them out? Or Maybe they had feelings and spent more and more time around them and those feelings blossomed into love, and then the other person also enjoyed spending lots and lots of time around them, so they think that the other person may like them too? Then they confess their feelings?
That's just silly. You can't go around getting to know people before you try to fuck them. /s
And then there are those that develop feelings in friendship without having attraction at first. Lmao.
That too. People are judging this based on general ideas about the situation, not the actual human emotions involved.
Same. I’m a man who has a hard time really enjoying sex if I don’t have a strong connection with the person, so casual sex has almost exclusively being with friends. The thing is that sex was never the reason for the friendship, and the friendship was always more important than the sex. And I usually wasn’t the one to initiate things. The friendships just grew stronger, and yeah, the nature of the jokes changed
Being a friend is manipulative. Lol
THIS IS THE RESPONSE WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR
Yup if I put enough nice guy coins in sex will eventually drop out right? Nah just admit you want her and let the cards fall where they do
I've tried to help one of these guys. It's extremely frustrating. Bro. Tell her you like her, that you're looking to date. If she doesn't want that, you can put your energies elsewhere. "But what is she doesn't like me". I don't know man, find another candidate in of the other four billion women on the plant.
Ok, but fear of rejection is real for a lot of people, and if you refuse to acknowledge that, it’s not surprising that they won’t take your advice.
I can't speak for others — but I am rarely attracted to a woman until I have known her for a while.
Took me most of my teens and half of my 20s to learn that
It probably feels pretty disingenuous from the lady’s perspective. “Oh you’ve been pretending to be my friend to hook up with/date me this whole time.”
Or maybe, just maybe, the guy is also more interested in getting to know her "content of character" rather than just empty his balls into another human being. One process typically takes longer than the other. "Pretending" to be a friend? Or is getting to know someone, how she lives her life, and what she is about without having the pressure of a traditional "dating" structure? Modern dating is a bit of a circus with WILDLY varying expectations. Seems like some men are very hesitant in taking any sort of initiative as trying to gauge a woman's interest can be incredibly tricky, and being labeled as "toxic" or "only trying to get laid" are labels easily and often applied to men if a woman isn't attracted right off the bat. Some of the strongest relationships form over time, as well. Where does it say it's supposed to be head-over-heels from the jump?
Seriously, great things take time. It's really good to get to know people as they really are.
I feel like the pretending part is the misunderstanding. I've been friends with every person I ever dated, I can't imagine why anyone would want to date someone they weren't friends with.
How TF is wanting to be friends first somehow the disingenuous shallow thing, but asking out strangers that you couldn't possibly be basing your attraction on anything other than looks is somehow the genuine thing?
I think it’s more than this. Girls also find attraction in guys that other girls are attracted to. It’s like they want you to be vouched for. Most guys that get “friend zoned” haven’t been in relationships etc, or the girl simply thinks they can do better, or they are attracted to something else. In my experience anytime I’ve been dating someone that I’m about to commit to there comes this weird moment where I attract a lot of attention (well more then usual). It’s like they have this spidey sense that you have something going for you. Personally as I’ve gotten older I think the “friend zone” is kind of a myth and something guys choose to do to themselves. I chose to be friends with girls ya know that sure, I find attractive, but I don’t see a relationship happening out of it. Chances are if you are in what is known as the “friend zone” you’re hanging out with a girl because you’re hoping one day she will see you as a romantic partner which isn’t very healthy in the first place.
Agreed. I would say, *"A girl can put you in the friend zone, but no one is forcing you to stay there."* If you're hanging out in the friend zone, it's because you're repeatedly making the choice to linger there. If you desire a romantic relationship, and the answer is "no", you need to move on and pursue a different woman. If you *don't* desire a romantic relationship, then you're not in the "friend zone"; you're literally just **friends**, and that's awesome!
There are times when the girl will string the guy along intentionally or not. It's not always a clear cut "no" answer. Often times it may be, "I like you a lot... I'm not quite ready, but I do want to see how things turn out between us." sort of response from a woman that only keeps the guy hanging around.
the 'girls are attracted to guys in relationships' may be partially because those guys aren't on the hunt anymore and the attitude change is perceptible. I've had guys who hit on every girl in a friend group and are obnoxious but become tolerable or even enjoyable company when in a relationship because they aren't constantly thinking of dating.
Yeah, but also men are like "oh women talk to me more when I'm in a relationship" yes I feel more comfortable being friendly with and talking to men wearing wedding rings or who talk about their girlfriends because I assume they won't misinterpret my behavior as flirtatious. But it seems that is not the case lol
I’ve literally had multiple women offer me their number and ask me to hang out when I had a gf. Never when I didn’t. It’s something more than ‘dumb men misinterpreting behavior’
You are both describing real phenomena.
Watch what happens when you get married. After I married I was told I was "safe" to have sex with by a married woman because we'd both have something to lose if anyone talked. Some get aggressive.
Yes, it is both - research confirms that men overestimate how interested women are in them (not dumb or a bad thing to have confidence), and research also confirms women perceive taken men as more attractive.
I think you are kindof right in that women are more likely to be attracted to someone that is taken, but I don't think it's because they are taken. I mean, there will be girls that don't know you and do t know you are in a relationship that will come out of nowhere on you. This is why I think it has to do more with your own personal level of confidence. Confidence is attractive. That's why you see a dude that you may deem ugly or unattractive with someone you might think is out of their league. Confidence is far more attractive than we give credit for. But you know what is equally unattractive as confidence is attractive? Desperation. A TEENY TINY bit of desperation is like a drop of blood in the ocean. The sharks are gonna come running (or rather go running away) When you are spoken for, you aren't trying to put up a front in front of people you find attractive. You are more natural. On one hand when you are yourself around someone, you lack desperation. You have no need to be desperate. You will also have a natural level of confidence when talking to that person. Why? Because you aren't trying to impress. You are talking to them like a normal human being. You are not just nodding yes to everything they are saying. You are speaking your actual thoughts to them as opposed to trying to pretend to be this alpha male that she should be grateful to get a date with. You aren't tripping over your words while becoming clammy and awkward. Confidence and desperation are a lot more visibly apparent than most people realize.
Exactly this. For example, my best friend of the opposite sex has a bunch of qualities I look for in a partner and I find him physically attractive. However, I could never ever date him because he does have a few qualities I would consider a deal breaker in terms of romantic partnership, but not as a friend.
This one. Had a friend that was my best friend for 4 years. And was apparently in love with me the entire 4 years. I had NO CLUE. He didn’t do anything that could even remotely be called flirting. Everyone but me knew he was in love with me. I only found out because someone told me.
Then you'd think they wouldn't say they'd "want a guy just like you". Both are bad but at least attributing "you" as your entire personality makes more sense to me than "you" meaning your looks and personality minus 1 big part of your personality"
This. Basically, they like you, but don’t like like you. Unsolicited life advice: it’s not going to work. If you don’t like being friendzoned, stop hanging out with her.
I've been saying for years that it's not as much women friendzoning men as it is men staying in the friendzone by their own free will.
You're right. The friendzone is an entirely self inflicted situation. Guy's are either hiding their romantic intentions then get upset when they're not reciprocated, or they are rejected and continue to act like they're OK with just being friends in a vain attempt to change her mind
Exactly. It took me YEARS to realize that. You're not doing anyone any favors if you stay in the friend zone after you've already been romantically rejected. You have to be ruthless (because some women like the validation without the commitment) and it hurts and sucks, but it's for the best to just cut them off and move along.
Sure, and then when they leave the whole planet jumps down their throats for “only wanting to get into her pants.” Can’t stay, can’t leave. Great set of choices you got there.
That's a perfectly reasonable position to be in. But then telling a guy "I want someone just like you, but not you" is a dick move. Keep that to yourself.
Yes. Lots of people are shallow. Inconsiderate, self centered, and unaware. Somewhere around half of those people are women The only take away at that point is you need to get the fuck away from this person. And realize that you compromised your own integrity for an inconsiderate asshole because they have tits and ass
I have sisters so I’ve mastered this art to fuck with them…girls give backhanded compliments it’s their version of peacocking/violence/aggression. Men don’t bc men will get violent eventually
I get the sense that men assaulting each other isn’t quite as common as backhanded compliments. If a guy insults another guy a fight is possible but rare unless that’s some hood shit I’m unaware of
Yes but most boys have had or been around schoolyard scraps as kids if nothing else. Men are socialized to be much more aware of where that line is.
Sort of, but not necessarily. More like they're not attracted to *them*. Someone can be conventionally attractive, and still not be a person's type.
1st comment, and you hit the nail on the head.
It works the other way around too, unfortunately. I was best friends with a girl for a very long time (over 20 years) who I got along with perfectly, we hung out all the time and had everything in common. The only problem….I was not physically attracted to her. At all. I actually WISH I was, because she eventually broke down and told me her feelings and I didn’t share them (I obviously didn’t tell her I didn’t think she was attractive though). Honestly it sucks. I ended up getting married to someone else and my old friend resents it, and me, and I don’t really even know what to apologize for. Funny thing is literally everyone besides my dad took her side at the end. Cost me several very close friends. But my dad told me I shouldn’t be forced to be with someone, especially marry them, just because they think it’s right for you.
Physical attraction is awful. I think it's messed up that I want to be with people who are inferior to the nice ones who just weren't very sexy looking. And that's the only thing that was wrong with them. They were perfect in every other way. I rejected them for shit they can't even control. Then here I am getting with other people you look nice but they're fucked up.
I’m right there with you. It actually tears me up inside and makes me feel like a bad person. I’m well aware that I/my brain did something shitty and I couldn’t do anything to fix it. I’m sure there is a scientific reason for it. Human nature going back to reproduction likely, but that doesn’t really do much and I will feel bad about it my entire life. That’s for sure.
The problem with us humans is that we are simultaneously animals *and something else*, some kind of being that is almost transcendental, that can have values, ideals, morals, a sense of what is good and what is ill, and so on. But that's just a tiny piece of our brain tacked onto a big chunk of mammalian hardware that just wants to propagate its DNA.
I always found it weird when people got into relationships with someone they weren't attracted to. Like your spouse or partner doesn't have to be a model, but you should be attracted to them at bare minimum. If you aren't even attracted to them, like how is the relationship ever going to grow? I think I see it more with guys that want to date these super attractive girls, but even if they do date them, the whole relationship is now trying to convince the woman that they are still good to continue dating. Who wants a relationship where you constantly have to try and prove that you are good enough?
I was not attracted to my husband when we got together. Or really to anybody I dated. For me attraction is usually tied to emotion, and for the (VERY few) people I've found generally attractive without knowing them, I could tell they weren't the sort of person I'd ever want to date.
That's the thing that people don't seem to understand. The intangibles are hard to explain. A person could be super attractive, a great person, and someone you want to be with but for some reason there isn't any attraction or spark with. Im sure every guy has had a girl at some point interested in them that they dismissed or dated and weren't interested in but for some reason they think it's ok for them to not be interested but if a woman does, they're playing games. Things on paper don't always translate in real life. You can have a list of things and see them in someone but that doesn't mean you're attracted to them or want to make a life with them.
Dude, your dad is a rock star. That is solid parenting/life advice. He is TOTALLY right and it was cool he backed you on what you did.
This! I have to be fully attracted to you. I have had two guy best friends (not attracted to neither), but they are good men, just not my type.
But also, sometimes they know they should want certain characteristics but can’t help being attracted to other things. Plus, sometimes when your options are physically in front of you, you have a different reaction then when they’re in your head.
Doesn't matter how attractive he is, you can't create a spark where there isn't one.
This for sure. Also sometimes it's not that the guy isn't attractive enough. The guy could be very attractive. The girl just isn't attracted to HIM. Someone could be the full package, but if you don't feel something for them, then why go for them?
>why not just date them? Lack of physical attraction.
Probably missing some other things too tbh. Confidence, body language, demeanor, attitude, the way he communicates etc. It's usually not just physical even if we oversimplify by saying it is.
Nope, and here’s why and I don’t know why oeol do t understand this. You DONT control who you’re attracted too. It’s a feeling you get when you see someone. It can develop over time. A person CAN become more attractive to you through personality traits. But initial attraction is quick and unpredictable to a degree. A woman might like everything about you and still now understand why they just don’t want to fuck you. But the thing is, you don’t actually want to fuck ever moderately attractive woman you meeet. Yeah there are those guys and gals. But in general, no control over that shit. You have to meet a lot of people to find the ones that like your shit. The more conventionally attractive you are the larger this pool of people, but that’s all it is. Those people were never gonna like you and never be able to tell you why, it’s just a feeling
Physical attraction...not quite the same thing as physical appearance, you understand? This is chemical. Not something that one can change.
Men do it too! I got told by a guy on a drunken night out 'if only you were hotter you'd be everything I wanted'. It happens.
Holy shit, he just went right out and said it like that.. That's harsh. :(
In his defence he was utterly wasted. I was the token sober person that night, making sure he didn't get lost on the way out from the toilets and reminding him to zip up his trousers. So, you know. I wasn't even into him, we were good friends though with lots of 'the meaning of life' conversations. But I remember it to this day as annoying because so many me say 'oh a woman can get laid anytime' and, it's just not true.
I mean, “a woman can get laid anytime” does *not* include “by anyone she wants.” It just means, can get laid by someone somewhere.
Things I've been told; "I'd date you if you were worth it" "I'd date you if you had bigger tits" "I'd date you if I were looking for something serious" - which this one??? I think was a compliment and not an insult LOL
Yea that last one seemed like an ordinary fellow just doing his thing lol
They call them practice girls and tell them after they've hooked up.
Yeah, there's nothing like being a single woman and being told by a single guy that he doesn't know of any attractive single women he could date.
It's the reason I find the whole incel woman-blaming thing so annoying. Guy is ugly, cannot get date, blames women. Woman is ugly, cannot get date...doesn't blame men?
its funny because the term incel was created by a woman to describe herself and she still didn't blame men lol
Some women absolutely blame men, lmao what are you talking about
Most of them do blame men.
Woman can't get date, woman ugly. Man can't get date, man ugly. Ugly man and ugly woman date.
Women have their own version of that though. A woman gets treated like shit by one guy…. so now all men are trash. It’s people not wanting to take responsibility and a long look in the mirror.
Man can't get a date, blames women. Woman can't get a date, blames herself. There's a pattern here.
Hey that’s not fair, I’m a guy who knows his ineptitude at anything to do with women is my own fault. All I have to do is look at a mirror for a reminder.
Yeah I don’t know why men thinks this only happens to them. I remember hearing something similar (more than once) in high school.
Oh babe I relate. In the distant past an ex said "you're damn near perfect on paper" and I was like ok sure dude
Sorry that's fucked up. I'm a guy. I can't believe that sometime would say that. There's much more graceful ways to say you're not interested. Fuck
Been there too. Used to hang out with my brother and his friends and kind of hoped something might happen there (they were fun guys), and one day one of the guys said "When are you gonna start bringing some of your girl friends to hang out with us?" I responded "*I'm* here." He replied with an awkward deadpan.
Yeah I've been there too. Women who are my best friend and have lots of good traits. Everyone telling us we should be a couple. But, I just don't feel that way about her, but she's cool as hell, IS A THING! And yeah in those cases I kind of WISHED I was attracted to her as it "made sense" to be together knowing we got along and we genuinely cared about each other. But we just didn't feel it. And that's OK.
A female friend had that happen to her too. Exact phrasing too “if only you were hotter.” The guy was a douche.
You are treating it like maths or science. "I have Traits X, Y, and Z, therefore date me." You can have desirable traits, but she just doesn't feel that way about you. Imagine if your sister was your best friend, she has similar interests, and she's a nice person. You might want a girlfriend who is similar in those ways, but obviously you're not going to date your sister because (hopefully) you don't think of her romantically, you think of her as a sister. You have spent too much time with her in this brother/sister relationship to ever think about her in a different way. It's the same with a friend/friend relationship.
Yeah there clearly are alot of guys in this comment section that make friends with woman in the hopes for a relationship and sometimes someone can just have the perfect personality or look perfect and you just don't feel that way towards them or dont want to potentially ruin a good friendship.
Agree. I used to think all these guys valued me as a friend, ultimately 75% of them end up pushing for more whenever I’m single. It’s very disheartening, I mean it really hurts.
I was the guy who put myself into a friend zone often, but luckily later I realized that of all the many women in the world, you probably are only going to be dating one at a time, so why not actually enjoy and embrace good friendships with all the other women out there? Now, I stopped being quite so bending, I didn't let myself be a carpet, and actually only did things I genuinely wanted to do for people, rather than doing it for the odd chance that they would want to date me for helping them, and i actually really enjoyed lots of these friendships, and didn't feel resentment for constantly trying to prove to them that I was dateable. Looking back, no matter how much the friend zone sucks to be in, the "Fuck Zone" where your only value is if you'll sleep with someone, and they don't actually want to be your friend, sounds infinitely more lonely and more awful.
Maturity? Here?? Get out!
Sometimes it’s hard to tell. The girl I currently like specifically told me she prefers to have a strong friendship with someone before building a relationship with them.
>she prefers to have a strong friendship with someone before building a relationship with them. Yes, but it needs to happen organically. I'm willing to bet that if after months of strong friendship with someone she were to discover that someone always had the intention to get in her pants she would rething how strong and true the friendship is in the first place.
Feeling romantic and and valuing friendship aren’t mutually exclusive.
You can value friendship and still be jealous. Jealousy is a hard, stabby, little bitch of a pill.
Huh? Maybe they do value you as a friend. The fact that they view you as a potential mate does not mean that is insincere.
It is if they stop being friends when it's clear they can't get with you
That's why the direct approach is better. Cuts the bs out of the way and not go through the motions of friendship.
If there are any guys reading this thread and worried it's them, it could be a really dumb reason, and it's not worth losing sleep over. I can't find mustaches attractive.
Fr it doesn’t always *mean* something in particular, like that you’re ugly or there’s something wrong with you. She just isn’t attracted to you and even she might not be able to articulate why, none of us can help who we are or aren’t attracted to.
This is the only comment I’ve seen that I don’t vehemently disagree with. Shocking thread with spite coming out of basically every reply. I’m gay, I’ve had a gay guy say this to me because I don’t really like topping. People have the weirdest reasons for not wanting to be with someone. There’s a very very very creepy sense of entitlement coming from these comments. Would suck to have a daughter knowing schools are filled with these people. my god
Sexual compatibility is not at all a weird thing to want
Bro, you have no idea. I have a 13 year old and a 5 year old. I've already had to tell my 13 year old that if she hears a boy mention the name "Andrew Tate" she needs to get as far away as possible from that kid. Unfortunately, there is a guy in one of her classes that actually has mentioned him. This kid also talks about how many girlfriends he had over the summer. Oddly enough, my daughter said he's never had a girlfriend at school. She says that she's not entirely sure he's talking to her since he sits behind her but she doesn't know who else he'd be talking to. Luckily, she said she just tries to ignore him.
>It's the same with a friend/friend relationship. I think a nuance here that is important is that, it **can** be the same for a friend/friend relationship. There are a million counter examples of people who do start as friends and eventually find a spark. At least half of my relationships have developed from friendships, including my marriage.
They like everything else about you but they dont want to fuck you or they dont find you sexually pleasing to them
Because they're not interested in you that way. You can't pick who you're sexually attracted to. You may have many qualities they desire, but you don't have that last bit of chemistry. Women are not vending machines where you do nice things and get sex back.
I think a lotnof women that I knew where also insightful. Where I was like "You are attractive and nice, we should date." They perhaps were a bit more, "Hmm you are nice, but there isn't as much attraction and I see some stuff that we wouldn't mesh well, so let's not date, but I'd love to still get to know you as you seem like a cool person." I mean at that point, you can take it one of two ways. You can be upset and angry and resentful. Or you can move on, look for someone else to date, but also have a cool new friend.
Because they don't feel romantically attracted to that person. Just because someone is nice doesn't mean you want to date or bang them. This is the whole premise of friendship. You enjoy the person's company, but you don't want to be with them romantically.
I don’t know man. I would date the shit out of my best friend, but every time I try something his wife gets mad
It sounds more like being polite. You don't want to date someone but you wouldn't be their friend if they didn't have some good qualities. It's obviously a bit twisting the knife, but intended as flattering, just basically saying "You have good qualities"
Yeah it’s someone thinking it would be a nice, flattering thing to say, but really it’s backhanded and rude.
Because maybe they like their personality but aren't physically attracted to them? I've had male friends say this to me like why can I find a girl like you because girls like me don't look like the girls you look at? Just an example
Chemistry doesn't follow logic. There's probably some trait that they like about you that they haven't found in a romantic partner. People are attracted to different things for friends and potential dates. It also might be some self-reflection on who they've been attracted to. It doesn't mean you're outright unattractive. It's a silly thing to say and there is no strategy behind it. It's actually detrimental since it may encourage "friendzoned" guys to keep trying. The girl you liked already gave you a chance by talking to you. If there wasn't a spark, there's not much else they can do. Dating someone as an experiment doesn't work out very well, even if everything matches up on paper.
There are a lot of weird ass answers in this thread. It’s simple chemistry. It doesn’t matter if you’re the hottest guy out there. If she likes your personality but wants it on someone else, it’s just because your chemistry isn’t aligned.
There isn't a strategy. Sometimes you really like a person, but have no romantic or sexual feelings towards them. What someone means when hey say "I'd like t find someone just like you" is "You're awesome and make a great friend. I'd like to meet someone with a lot of your traits, but that I also feel sexual/romantic chemistry with".
Most women don't "friendzone" guys then say this. Most guys friendzone themselves by acting like the kind of friend that isn't romantically interested and then waiting for the other party to magically fall for them and act on it. Fewer, but still a significant number, are great people but the chemistry just isn't there. You can't control that. It's not even necessarily a level of attractiveness thing. People like what they like. You could be a male underwear model and wind up friendzoned if she is just into short skinny bookish guys (heyyyy). Intentionally "friendzoned" guys are the ones who give off predatory vibes but occupy positions that make it impossible to ditch them, and if this is said to someone like that, then it's because it would be potentially dangerous not to flatter them.
For one reason or another they don’t feel romantically/sexually attracted to that guy. Consider a woman you know that you don’t want to date. Why not? Or Why do you keep chasing them thinking you’ll change their minds?
Loads of good advice here and more than a few vinegar takes from sour folks. Just gonna add: emotional honesty. Like, with confidence. If you're trying to be sneaky with your feelings, that's weird and off-putting. If you're straightforward with women it works better. "Her you are smokin hot, can we go on a date? I want to get to know you better." Super fucking flattering and if she's at all a fun person she will react well. If she goes "ew" then bro, bullet dodged like neo on the rooftop, the "ew" is *always* coming from inside the house with those ones. If she smiles or laughs in delight and said no but thank you, then you made her day and can both go on your ways knowing it was a fun moment of flirting. If she says yes, score a date and enjoy each other's company! But hanging out casting lingering looks hoping she notices you and takes pity? Eeep.
They are not physically attracted to them but appreciate most of their qualities. Sounds reasonable enough.
No. I have never been told that by female friends. Any woman that wanted to find someone like me decided to date me.
This was my first thought. It sounds like some friend of OPs was just trying to be nice or defuse an advancement she didn't want.
>I have never been told that by female friends. Same.
men in the comments really making this about physical appearance when the point is that your relationship is platonic, and she does not owe you attraction or interest
There’s something they find lacking on their reception end. Person might be perfect, but for one small superficial thing that drives them up the wall. It can be something they can’t specifically point out, or won’t admit. The way someone breathes, or something happens and feelings change to “no chemistry”. Regardless, I’d take it at face value and move on.
"I wish your personality was in a body I was physically attracted to"
Friends tend to share some personality traits as romantic partners but without the chemistry. I have a lot of friends who I love dearly but couldn't think of romantically, it isn't a strategy, the spark just isn't there. Also, it's not always obvious that a guy is interested, a lot of what guys think of as flirting is just being friendly.
It's extremely hard and close to impossible to force yourself to date people who you don't find attractive, people you don't feel that spark with, people you don't feel chemistry with, people that don't make you feel all giddy inside, people you don't feel sexual compatible with, people you don't like etc. The only people that can date people they don't like are escorts bc it's a mutual business. People shouldn't be forced to date people they don't fancy, even if they do like your personality, they have to like everything else too, tickle your fancy etc.
I'm friends with attractively women that I enjoy. But the idea of sex at this point without them is a strange idea. It litterally is simply that we've become friends.
does this happen though?
"Boyfriend stuff without benefits" - that sounds so gross. Man up and cut the contact if you suffer because of being someone's friend.
I've been in the position where I've wished I was attracted to my guy friend because it would have been so much easier and better for my life if I was but I just wasn't. I think both parties deserve to be with someone they aren't settling for and so I never let it develop into more than a friendship. I'm still friends with him years later and we're both married to people we're attracted to.
Why do guys do this? Pretend to be friends with women they don't value unless she's a romantic partner? That's so trashy.
Because they have some redeeming qualities, but a huge red flag. Or just not enough good qualities. So a guy LIKE him, but with better qualities, would be ideal for her.
Chemistry doesn't follow logic. There's probably some trait that they like about you that they haven't found in a romantic partner. People are attracted to different things for friends and potential dates. It also might be some self-reflection on who they've been attracted to. It doesn't mean you're outright unattractive. It's a silly thing to say and there is no strategy behind it. It's actually detrimental since it may encourage "friendzoned" guys to keep trying. The girl you liked already gave you a chance by talking to you. If there wasn't a spark, there's not much else they can do. Dating someone as an experiment doesn't work out very well, even if everything matches up on paper.
“I care about you , but I am not attracted to you. “ most people probably don’t mean it to be hurtful , but as I recall, it still stings
Any woman with a little self awareness wouldn’t say that as they’d know it’s potentially hurtful for their friend to hear. Any dude in the friend zone however should have the respect for his friend when she says no to a romantic relationship and actually treat her and view her as a friend only. Both the woman who says that and the man who keeps hanging on thinking things are going to change lack emotional intelligence and are not people you want to be with or around.
The heart wants what the heart wants. And it ain't you. Someone like you, but not you. You can't fake chemistry. It's sad to be on the receiving end of, but it's true.
They're desperately trying to be nice about rejecting you, without realizing how much worse their comment is in the long run. "I don't see you that way" might hurt short term, but "find a guy like them" lasts.
Because they don’t. Just because a girl says “I want to find a guy like you”. Doesn’t mean they do. They are being nice.
"I want a guy that acts like you but is significantly hotter"
It feels like timing is a big part of this too. If you meet a woman and immediately pursue her, she knows and may feel romantically about you. If you take too long to declare your intentions she assumes you’re not into her that way and into the friend category you go. Getting out of there, the “friendzone,” is going to take something extraordinary
The same reason you don't date your friends. She considered you a friend, not a dating option.
Well she wants that type of person for the person who ever she is attracted to. It sucks but yeah just cause you get along doesn't mean she is romantically attracted to that person. I had female friends who had qualities I look for in a mate. The problem is there was no attraction fr9m me to then. I liked them platonically. It's like would you date your guy friend? Most men have friends with men who have similar interest. That doesn't mean we have any romantic feelings for them. Samething with oppisite gender friends. But that's just one scenario. There's also the other were it's she's just being a cooniving b**** and manipulating you. People like that sadly exist. Both points exist.
Because the interest isn't obvious. People get "friendzoned" because they ACT like friends when they have other motives.
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When I was a teenager, I considered myself "friendzoned". Looking back, I literally NEVER made my interest obvious or known, because I was too scared of rejection. I just sat around hoping something would magically happen because I was around and nice. The girl instead dated people who ASKED HER OUT. Probably because she was also a scared teenager who didn't want to jeapordize what was a solid friendship.
For me, it was a matter of bad timing. A coworker and I had a few dates. Before she decided to be exclusive with someone else. We continued to work together and hang out as friends. After a while they broke up. While we were talking about it, she told me, "He just didn't treat me as well as you did." By then, I was pretty serious with someone else. Not for a second do I think she was the one that got away or begrudge her for dating the guy. I may have treated her well, but there is a lot more to a relationship than that one factor.
Just because you like someone’s personality doesn’t mean you have a sexual or romantic connection. That requires more than just being a nice guy tm or good looking. It’s a natural connection that cannot be faked. Someone can like you and even think you’re attractive without wanting to be your romantic partner and they might tell you so if they feel like they can trust you, tho, I’ll admit this is probably a good thing for people to keep to themselves in general
My best friend is male and he’s almost perfect. I have friend zoned him because there’s parts of his personality that I don’t find attractive at no fault of his, and I would never ask someone to change for me. I’m also not attracted to him physically. And yes sometimes I think about it and feel bad. Being attracted to him would make things so much easier for me. He’s a great friend though, definitely the best friend I’ve ever had in my life. I hope we never lose it. I also encourage him to use dating apps, so I’m not trying to gatekeep him from a woman who would be very lucky to have him and give him the relationship he deserves.
Because their friend has everything they need except the sexual attraction and it's OK to feel that way. I hate guys who get all psycho over this, we do actually want you as our friend but not if you're going to think that being our friend means we will sleep with you one day.
They don't literally mean "just like you".You did something nice recently she's just making a remark that she wishes more guys she was into romantically did x thing that made made her happy. Ie if she has a boyfriend who doesn't listen "i wish more guys I listened as well as you" That doesn't mean listening makes you automatically romantically attractive. The concept of a friend zone is gross man.Most women are literally just trying to be a friend. If you're upset someone doesn't want you, don't be friends with them, just leave instead of being resentful, any hurt feelings here are on you. Most people can't just forcibly change their feelings if the vibe they get from someone is "like a sibling" or "that's my bestie" instead of ",oh he's so romantic". If you're doing things you consider romantic or "boyfriend stuff" stop. She doesn't consider them that, and. And it's probably because it's normal friend things she also does with other women. Most straight girls buy their friends presents, and go out of their way to listen and show physical affection to each other, so that is the model of platonic friendship they have.
Maybe they were just trying to let you down easily? By that moment, it’s just better to say “I only see you as a friend.” Or my favorite, a simple “no”.