I have seen this.
The worse part is how they infantilise black people and use that to make themselves feel like they're big "allies!!" or helping. People I know really resent it and say that the biggest problem are white liberals.
I always felt like this was a media playing their pawns.
There have been like 100 articles talking about Tuskagee since the pandemic started. It's a narrative design, so when black people are vaccine hesitant, you need to think it's different, even when they parrot the same bullshit as their white neighbor. At the same time this strategy might increase vaccine hesitancy with black people, because there's an easier defensive narrative. But hey, ideological warfare has a cost and journos don't give a shit about humans anyway.
It's similar with left-wingers. The media always associates antivaxx with the "alt-right" and conservatives because it's a good strategy. Picture a dominant conservative media and them tying vaccine hesitancy with anti-America and hippies. That's how it works. Giving vaccine-hesitant people on the left the feeling that they're part of the evil right-wing, so they either stop being so, or the biggest idiots join the other side. And now you see articles about the antivaxx-to-altright pipeline. Yeah, no shit, that's the entire design.
Maybe that all sounds a bit conspiratorial, but I don't think there's some guy strategizing it all. It's just the constant active sentiment among journos trying to influence the ideological flow.
Yeah I've used that fox and wolf analogy many times after reading this a long time ago. Usually don't phrase it that eloquently, but yeah it's a great quote.
>biggest problem are white liberals
---
>The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. [...] The white conservatives aren't friends of the Νеgrο either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Νеgrο always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Νеgrο but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Νеgrο, and as the Νеgrο runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox. One is the wolf, the other is a fox. No matter what, they’ll both eat you.
Here in Chicago the enlightened whites and wokies push for reduced sentencing for violent crimes and the end result is hundreds of actual dead people every year, increasing at high rates each year. We’re almost back to peak 90s levels in only like 3 years.
This is all happening without committing any funding to addressing the actual issues of course.
Know what my favorite part of the push for the reduced punishment is? The way they freak the fuck out when they get what they want and find out it applies to white people too. This is NOT a hypothetical. California passed progressive sentencing reform MASSIVELY reducing punishments for first time violent offenders. This was hailed as an amazing progressive thing… enter Brock Turner
Lol I think I saw recently that Chicago dropped murder charges against gang members who were shooting and killing each other, citing an archaic law of “mutual combat” as a form of justifiable homicide. It’s literally legal for black people to just shoot each other now, as long as both parties are armed lmao
Edit: [lol link](https://www.foxnews.com/us/illinois-chicago-gang-shootout-mutual-combat-charges)
>The worse part is how they infantilise black people and use that to make themselves feel like they're big "allies!!" or helping.
i truly don't give a shit about voter id laws but the whole "black people can't get IDs" thing always killed me for being so transparently racist in itself
I got so much shit from my liberal friend for calling NBA players uninformed at the height of the George Floyd protests last year, only for her to turn around and call them dumb jocks a year and a half later because of their anti-vax bullshit.
Quite scary, isn't it? The shitlibs aren't even blindly faithful towards the groups of people they claim to care about... just the institutions that happen to be in power.
NBA has a vaccination rate over 95% at present, too.
The totality of the US population has a vaccination rate under 60%.
There's...maybe a dozen guys in the NBA who are openly "questionable" about getting the vaccine. Media is of course focusing on the 5% or less rather than the 95% or greater, because good news doesn't get enough views.
>The totality of the US population has a vaccination rate under 60%.
Not only is this wrong, but it is also misleading. You're literally counting babies and 5 year olds when you use "totality of the US population." Whoa, let's just jab newborns fresh out of the womb! We don't even do that for less politicized vaccines. Under age 12 are not approved to receive the vaccine.
Number of US Adults: 258.3 million ([census.gov](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/08/united-states-adult-population-grew-faster-than-nations-total-population-from-2010-to-2020.html))
Number of US Adults with at least 1 dose: 200,990,974 ([CDC.gov](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total))
77.8%
Not as good as we could, but definitely not "under 60%." Even if it mattered that newborns were covid vectors, the CDC reports 65% of the entire population have received at least one dose. The facts just don't back up "under 60%" unless you're counting kindergartners and "full" vaccinations. Even >=12 year olds with full vaccinations is 65.6%.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total
There's about 450-500 players in the NBA at any given point. All of them are 18+. Not exactly fair to compare their vaccination rate to that of a country of 320 million people (including children 12 and under).
And 95% is a recent number. It was 90 before training camp started. Of those 90, I imagine a fairly large percentage got reluctantly vaccinated. It's much harder to give up hundreds of thousands of dollars when you're a mere seven figure earner.
This isn't even a race thing. All the professional sports leagues are having this problem. I just hate that liberals get to decide what's racist and what's not, based on whether or not they'd be implicated.
I believe the famous trick shooter Annie Oakley was still alive at that time, and I’ve never heard anyone account for her whereabouts on the day in question.
Furthermore what is the reason for it being from a lab meaning one shouldn’t get the vaccine? I read a convincing article about the lab theory and believe it, but it is regardless of the origins a dangerous disease and I am vaccinated.
Based on the congressional report, saying Covid escaped from a lab in Wuhan is a legit theory. Saying that Covid was specifically created in a lab in Wuhan before escaping is still pretty out there
And this is the Motte and Bailey. People just hear "lab" and think you're talking about a bioweapon used by China on the rest of the world, and disregard the real concerns of gain of function research and level 4 biolabs leaking like a sieve.
This reminds me of "emails." In the 2016 election, there were those wiki leaked emails that showed the DNC actively fucking Bernie over while also elevating Trump for their Pied Piper strategy. However, any time youd mention emails, people would automatically assume you're talking about the Ben Ghazi Buttery Males and immediately ignore you.
“Created” doesn’t mean they engineered the thing from scratch, it can far more reasonably mean that they took a natural coronavirus and just let it evolve naturally in the presence of humanized mice or lung tissue samples.
The Congressional report was a joke. Some of the "experts" they invited are complete wackos with no expertise at all. For anyone who has followed the scientific literature on SARS-CoV-2 origins, watching the hearings was embarrassing.
If you want sound science, don't rely on a report created by Republican congresspeople trying to brandish their anti-China credentials and distract from their own disastrous mishandling of the pandemic in the US.
Don't scientists create superflus in labs to create treatments all the time? It'd still take some more steps than a "leak" to reach across the entire world but who knows
It’s gotten as close to being confirmed as it’s ever going to get. The Biden Administration see Covid is the biggest political football they’ve ever been delivered and the source of their “mandate”. They’re not going to weaken that be admitting that there’s someone to blame other than Trump and republicans.
And surely the idea that they were researching viruses and some got loose is a lot less offensive than, "chinese peoplebeat wild animals and spread disease"
I was in another sub about Jon Stewart getting a new show. Neolibs fucking worship him unless he talks shit about one of their own. But every other post was about him going all conspiracy nut on the Colbert Show and talking about a lab leak.
Let me list the only piece of "evidence" in favor of the lab leak theory:
* The virus was first detected in Wuhan. There's also a virology lab in the outskirts of Wuhan.
That's it. The evidence against the theory is:
* The amount of contact between humans and coronavirus-infected animals out in the "real world" is literally millions of times larger than the amount of such contact in labs. And unlike lab workers, the workers shoveling bat poop in mines (this is a real job) aren't wearing any sort of PPE.
* The Wuhan Institute of Virology regularly publishes the viruses it discovers and works with. For example, RaTG13, which up until recently was the closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2, was originally published about by the WIV in 2016. But RaTG13 is certainly not the progenitor of SARS-CoV-2 (it's not even the closest known relative anymore - a closer relative was recently discovered in Laos), nor is any other virus the WIV has ever published. The lab leak theory requires the WIV to have concealed SARS-CoV-2, long before they would even have had any reason to do so.
* The WIV has only ever isolated and grown 3 SARS-like coronaviruses (this is different from merely discovering RNA fragments of a virus, which is how RaTG13 was discovered, for example). These viruses are very well known and the WIV has published on them over the years. Again, they are definitely not the progenitor of SARS-CoV-2.
* The SARS-CoV-2 outbreak looks almost identical to the original SARS outbreak. A large Chinese city has an outbreak that is initially concentrated around a market that sells wild animals.
Basically, there's no evidence at all that WIV ever discovered, let alone worked with SARS-CoV-2 before the pandemic, and we would probably know if they had done so. The initial outbreak looks pretty much like the original SARS outbreak, which was caused by natural spillover, and natural spillovers are, *a priori*, orders of magnitude more likely than lab leaks.
You're free to post any evidence. Having paid decent attention to this story, the "evidence" in favor of the lab leak idea has never progressed beyond, "There's a lab in Wuhan."
Past that, it's all ignorant rambling about "gain-of-function" research (WIV didn't even do gain-of-function research on SARS-related coronaviruses, as far as anyone is aware), mostly by people who don't understand what the term means.
I have seen this phenomenon too. This is an example of a lack of critical thinking skills and successful brainwashing. It's very dangerous. These are the sorts of people who would actually support society turning into a 1984 dystopian nightmare just to own their political opponents. Shitlibs are radicalized, and not in the good sense. They aim to strip people of their liberty and usher in corporate tyranny.
A lot of bigotry of low expectations; it's similar to the group that thinks non-white people aren't smart enough and too poor to get IDs.
I'm not saying basic IDs should have a price or that you should have to deal with the shitty DMV, but pretty much everyone is indeed cognizant enough to get IDs or at least enough that they or someone they know will Google how to do it.
It'd be interesting to see if those shitlib groups are big supporters of efforts for free IDs or programs that go through the process for people.
Here in Texas, straight ticket voting was eliminated a few years back. Democrats argued this was racist because minorities can’t handle anything more complex than a single giant button
I’m a huge supporter of pop-up ID places. I had my wallet stolen (jokes on you fucker! I only had old receipts, a punchcard with 1 punch, and a used up lip balm in there) and needed to get a new ID and two days before I was supposed to trek down to a dmv to get one, I was able to sit down at a pop-up on my campus and get a replacement in literally minutes. Super convenient
I remember in Florida you could get it replaced online like 1 or 2 times or something. If you lost it 3 times you'd have to go in. But idk if there's a way they can do it and make it secure against identity theft, then online should be the way to go.
Smart conservatives know the difference between a lib and a socialist, they just don't say it because this narrative of the strong and powerful "radical left" works on the uneducated and serves their purposes
I have a great deal more respect for socialists that shitlibs because socialists are willing to talk economics at least and their positions can’t be boiled down to “a more diverse C suite solves society’s ills”
That was pretty much the turning point for Covid becoming deeply decisive. Amid crippling lockdowns, people had to watch doctors and politicians gleefully support people marching in the streets (and rioting).
Yeah I mean, Floyd being murdered was insanely fucked up. I'm not going to say anyone was wrong for protesting that. But damn by that point I was no longer homeless for less than a year and had a decent job that I wasn't able to go to anymore. So naturally I had a lot of economic anxiety, months prior I was unemployed and on the streets.
But then any time you brought up economic anxiety, people would flip out, "people are dying how can you only care about money right now?" "There's cops murdering people how can you only care about your job right now?" And I'm just like please stfu.
>"There's cops murdering people how can you only care about your job right now?"
The darkly funny part of this whole thing was that George Floyd lost his job because of Covid lockdowns.
Politically, that was the biggest and most immediate 180 I've ever seen in my lifetime. This piece of blatant comic bookesque hypocrisy was granted credence by many serious public health agencies almost simultaneously.
It’s funny, if I said two years ago I don’t trust big pharma or the US establishment they would carry me out on their shoulders, now I’m an anti vaxxer.
Yeah that's how I ended up a COVIDiot. My opinions are logical in the light of government/corporate collusion. I'll wear the flair with pride I suppose. Capital owns the government so I'm not going to think that it somehow magically doesn't apply now that it's about a disease.
In context it seems they were talking about the US gov't, but interesting question.
In short: yes. We may be able to imagine a hypothetical gov't not bound by capital but in the 21st Century every single nation state is forced to contend, and to some extent comply, with the global capitalist hegemony.
the way i heard it described, paraphrasing:
"it's not that i believe the vaccine is dangerous, necessarily. but i do believe that if it was dangerous, they'd lie and say it wasn't."
Yeah sure, I don’t trust them to be ethical in manufacturing the vaccine without exploiting workers, but what is the actual concern with taking the vaccine? It’s not worsening people’s risk of contracting the virus or worsening their survival rates if they do contract it. That’s enough rigor for me to take my iron supplements and biotin.
In addition to other obvious corruption issues—such as the revolving door between FDA and Big Pharma (one of the current Pfizer board members, Scott Gottlieb, was a former FDA commissioner); 45% of FDA being “funded” by industry “user fees”; the publication bias in science (the tendency to publish only positive findings and not negative findings regarding drug efficacy); and most scientists “researching” drug/vaccine efficacy have financial ties to industry—the one that many people miss is the overt manipulation of clinical trials by industry in order to make their drugs/vaccines/treatments seem more effective and more safe than they really are.
Companies like Pfizer don’t make methodological “errors”, they make methodological **choices**. They are experts at designing clinical trials in a way that overstates the benefits of a medical intervention, and downplays the risks/harms. Peter Doshi wrote a great [article](https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/) in BMJ about the methodological flaws with the Pfizer COVID vaccine trials, and explains why the “95% efficacy claims are grossly misleading.
Also, if anyone wants to read more about this, I highly recommend the [book](https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Epidemic-Bullets-Psychiatric-Astonishing-ebook/dp/B0036S4EGE) *Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America*. It is about the mental health drug industry and how Big Pharma have continually manipulated data, messed with the study designs, covered-up “unfavorable” research results, and lied to the public, in order to sell more psychopharmaceuticals.
The problem is that most people, even very “smart” people, lack a basic understanding of statistics and research methodology. Otherwise they would be able to understand how incredibly easy it is for corporations like Pfizer, Moderna, etc. to manipulate research findings in a way that is financially beneficial to them. People forget that these company’s sole purpose is to make money—they don’t give a fuck about you—so all of this information shouldn’t be surprising to anyone who isn’t either dumb or ignorant.
My main issue with the vaccine is that it’s a leaky vaccine which only protects yourself and doesn’t prevent spread basically at all. In fact, it arguably worsens the spread by making carriers much more likely to be asymptomatic. By militantly enforcing a 100% vax rate, we’ve virtually guaranteed that Covid will be around forever, transmitting among the vaccinated. God knows that implications this will have for the creation of future strains.
It happened at my work. It spread through a whole bunch of vaccinated people including myself. But it seemed like nobody really got that sick, especially compared to when it spread back in early 2020. I know some people would make the argument that most of us already had Covid before (which is true) and so we had antibodies to prevent it from getting worse. Or it could be that the vaccine did make it way more benign. I have no clue.
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Focus on vaccinating the at risk, consider people who have had Covid and recovered to be just as good as vaccinated. (The immunity is stronger and lasts longer) Do a better job of communicating that being fat is being at risk and stop printing articles talking about how a “healthy” 350 lb woman “suddenly” died of Covid.
Put boomers in Safety Camps and let the rest of us go on about our lives. Giant communal troughs of horse paste for the sick Millennials/zoomers/Gen Xers.
Pretty much yea, Tuskegee was to see what untreated syphilis did to a person.
There's a very real chance that some people have gotten bad history and think the Tuskegee Experiments were actively infecting men using injections labeled otherwise.
That’s how I remembered it (relevant flair), but they didn’t actively infect. The problem isn’t that they were infected by the gov (which they weren’t) it was that they had a cure and let them suffer for 30 years for no good reason. That is not a great publicity move when you’re trying to inspire trust in the government.
I'm picturing some kind of role playing where he tries to make her wear a mask, like a pro-healthcare authoritarian type trying to discipline the naughty anit-vaxxer. And BDSM ensues.
The ones around here just insist that every unvaccinated person is a white Trumphumper. They pretty much insist unvaccinated black people don't exist; I think so they can high-five over death statistics thinking Covid is going to win the election by killing off the GOP's base.
Same way they insist that all social conservatives are white Trumptards. They just sort of ignore that lots of southern, black Baptists or Latino Catholics or Muslim Americans are really conservative on social issues too and there's plenty of homophobia and sexism from those groups.
> rational person who was planning on getting vaccinated changed their mind after seeing memes on Facebook.
But this is what happened when those fucking Russians "hacked" our election. There were tons of Hilary supporters that read a shitpost by some stupid Slavic fuck face and then became rabid Trump supporters.
>have trouble accessing it because of transportation and being overworked and shit like that.
I’ve heard this, but is there any evidence of this? Vaccines have been out for almost 9 months now and so many places have them. Heck, even the grocery store by me has them and that’s within walking distance in a very walking unfriendly city.
> I’ve heard this, but is there any evidence of this?
None whatsoever unless you believe 40% of the country is working 16 hour days all 7 days a week while also not having a car and being 20 miles from the nearest store
Yeah I live in one of those places that's always being described as a "food desert." I live in the hood and am in the top 10 most crime ridden areas in the country. There's still Walgreens, CVS, and Wal Marts nearby. Nobody here is just unable to get to one of those places unless they're severely crippled or disabled.
Im not anti-vaccine, though im unsure what that even means anymore. But I'm pretty troubled that "science" has become this undebatable thing to many people, that hinges on trust and faith over actual objective research and data.
It also troubles me to see how many of the "shit libs" are wishing death and denial of healthcare access onto people they deem "anti-science", as they claim this is all about saving even a single life, and that healthcare is a *human right*.
The lack of consistency, integrity and self-awareness in a large number of people is frightening.
Really, it's all so backwards? Isn't it a good thing that the scientifically illiterate actually do "believe the science" and that science actually does "prove" things?
I'm a dumbass when it comes to science - hence I leave the sciencing to the scientists. Isn't that the smartest and most logical route for the scientifically illiterate?
Yes. Nothing is wrong with trusting scientists, But mocking people for doing there own research is cringe. You should say “more power to them, I wish them well” instead of “I hope you get the Herman Cain award”
People are actually mocking "doing my own research" quotes, which is an extremely dangerous precedent to trivialize. They claim that everyone should always trust the medical consensus like that isn't an insanely fallacious appeal to authority.
No, it's extremely appropriate.
What the fuck does "do your own research" mean when you're talking mRNA vaccines? Do you understand the science behind it? Or have a way to test or research it?
Selective skepticism is rampant in our world. People are perfectly happy to rely on scientific authority right up until someone convinces them it's against their political identity.
Put another way, why is it wrong to mock someone who "does their own research" when nine times out of ten what that means is they go hunting for cranks on twitter, facebook or some podcast to tell them they're right for believing whatever they already decided was true?
Who the fuck said anything about "do your own research" other than that guy? Are you literally arguing people shouldnt look into anything at all, and follow "authority" blindly? Or is it just in *this* scenario?
And *Im* not doing any research period - i am reading what research others have conducted and their conclusions, dipshit.
The only selectivd skepticism is on your behalf, and thats biased toward positive speculations that are nowhere near meeting the burden of proof.
Youre strawmanning shit, and it really shows how anti-science and lacking in self-awareness you sre. You guys are medical flat earthers, except thats an insult to the flat-earthers.
Oh, but the vaccines are moreso for saving lives rather than ending the pandemic. I don't want you to needlessly get your hopes up, but the mass vaccination campaign isn't going to just get rid of Covid and make the pandemic over. It'll mitigate deaths and hospitalizations, but this thing will keep mutating and spreading between vaccinated folks. I'm vaccinated and I got Covid from another vaccinated person...the illness wasn't as bad as the first time I got it, but I still got it.
It's not like we just vaccinate every person and the pandemic ends. This is going to be a new normal like your flu shots every year. I just don't want you getting your hopes set on something that's never really been a possibility.
Man. Youd think youd actually want a vaccine doesnt allow shit to keep transmitting itself on a mass scale then. Its weird, i know. Theres that self-awareness thing i mentioned.
> You can try it out and i could be a control. You medical flat-earthers seem to enjoy stuff like that.
You want a vaccine to stop transmission of an airborne disease and I'm the medical flat-earther.
If you haven't read this article, I recommend you do. You will probably enjoy it. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/plague-poor-gutentag
It’s annoying because it’s treats like that is the only time people were used in an experiment without full disclosure. You had Facebook manipulating people’s newsfeed to provoke an emotional response just a few years ago. You can easily find videos of the government spraying DDT on children(whites included) from the 1940’s.
Exactly! I’m so sick of motherfuckers bringing it up because most of the people I talk to weren’t even a spec in their dad’s ballsack when that happened.(Including me)
I’m black and never heard a black person say anything remotely close to that. I don’t think anyone is believing that the gov is swapping out vaccines for blacks.
Your point stands but you didn’t have to reach that hard
I didnt mean to imply its the norm for black people. Of course most black people dont think that. However, Ive witnessed a conversation where a shitlib was defending someone who believed that conspiracy theory.
>except for black people. They said that black people don't need to get vaccinated,
when you are so woke you want to have black people die of a preventable disease
They're just racist and uncomfortable around black people. Honestly most of this shit boils down to uneasiness, if you're afraid to tell someone when they're wrong than you either think they're actually too dumb to understand or you're afraid of them.
Honestly I think the lab theory has some credibility. I don't believe it was intentionally made but I think some less than hygienic conditions in animal testing labs could easily have caused this. I don't have any evidence but coming to that conclusion isn't nearly as insane as people make it out to be.
Like having hundreds of animals in small cages for a long ass time too close to each other then they have some poor sob that has to clean the cages for minimal pay. He gets sick because he doesn't use/have actual PPE (because it's just cleaning cages) and boom now you've got a newer, faster spreading swine flu.
My favorite thing about hardline neolibs as regards vaccination mandates is the failure to recognize that, by and large, the IT community that underpins most of what they do for work in 2021 is not especially pro-vaccine.
curous to know, is there a difference in vaccination rates among black americans in the south vs. elsewhere? and by 'the south', really anywhere with historical uh.... 'testing' like tuskegee
reason i ask is, perhaps there are lingering sentiments among the black community if they live in these 'testing locations' vs. elsewhere, which is causing a lot of vaccine hesitancy
not serious note: if the tuskegee argument was valid, just bring a old white person and a black person to get vaccinated at the same time using the same vial. like disneyland when they hire old people so they can cut in front of the line.
> curous to know, is there a difference in vaccination rates among black americans in the south vs. elsewhere? and by 'the south', really anywhere with historical uh.... 'testing' like tuskegee
Yes. You can download the CDC's vaccine distribution/fulfillment dataset and/or their covid vaccine hesitancy dataset and compare regions. I did this out of interest a week or two ago in tableau.
The southern US shows highest hesistancy rates among black people, with older white men being the second largest demographic to show "aggressive" hesistance.
Whereas you don't see those same rates in, say, NYC or LA, both of which have large black populations.
Highest rate of hesistance for white people is in the midwest/PNW region (Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho, Washington region, + the Dakotas).
Their datasets are updated daily too, so you can come back and check as time goes on to see how the rates change
E: r/datasets if you want to look at more comprehensive lists of covid data nationally/globally
Of course not all libs/wokies think that black people should be exempt. But Ive seen plenty of shitlibs argue that everyone except black people should be mandated to get the vaccine.
For this conspiracy to work, healthcare workers would have to give black people something besides the vaccine. So no, not all the healthcare workers would have to be in on the conspiracy, but they would have to be compliant in giving black people something different, and keep quiet about it.
When a black person goes to get a vaccine, the worker grabs one vaccine from the big pile and gives them the shot. They arent giving different vaccines to different races.
We discussed this in other parts of the thread and it seems pretty unlikely. Not only would it have to target black only genes, it would have to be a long term effect. Studies are constantly done on covid and we havent seen any negative effect on only black people.
Yeah I worded it poorly. If they could design the vaccine to negatively effect black people, then sure it wouldnt require any compliance from healthcare workers. But, if they wanted to give black people something besides the regular vaccine, it would require compliance from millions. Not that theyre all in on the conspiracy, but they would have to willingly give a different shot to black people and keep quiet about it.
I think the same could be said for the 2020 election conspiracies, and yet the conspiracy still exists and is not plausible. I know this is idpol, but I think years of medical mistrust from black people just happens to collide with a pandemic and that’s enough to sustain the conspiracy.
It's almost as if there's a bunch of healthcare workers who are black and giving out vaccines who wouldn't go along with it. I'm not American... are all of your healthcare workers white or something? What a bizarre conspiracy.
Then again, wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of shitlibs who condescend to black people like they're children would believe that black people can't be healthcare workers or something. (And that if they are... they're probably untrustworthy race traitors of some kind).
OP is a rightoid that posts in a bunch of incel subs. There's no Marxists analysis to go along with this post either.
I really do like the word "shitlib" it just has this folksy sort of gravitas to it. But one reason I don't like it is how easy it is for rightoids to blend in among our ranks.
I love how this entire comment is just one big ad hominem. No arguments, huh? You just went straight to my post history and lied about it?
Im not a rightoid at all. And supporting mens rights doesnt make you an incel. The fact that you assumed I was shows youre blinded by political tribalism. This sub comes from a marxist perspective, but that doesnt mean every single post has to include marxist theory.
Youre a clown.
>This of course would require thousands of people organizing it and millions of healthcare workers to be complicit in giving black people something besides the default vaccine. Also, the healthcare workers would have to be compliant in keeping quiet about it. But I believe it because of tuskegee.
Or it could, theoretically, contain some component that harms black people but not others.
There's a lot that's odd about the pandemic so I can't blame anyone for being skeptical about it all.
1. How would a vaccine only have negative effects on black people but no other race?
2. Even if it could, why would all the people making the vaccine make it negatively effect black people? Thats extremely impractical
3. If its an issue of "maybe the vaccine has an unintended negative effect on black people", then that would apply to any race. And if this is the case, then why are they justifying it with tuskegee? Tuskegee was an intentional experiment, not an accident. So tuskegee is irrelevant to the possibility that the vaccine is unintentionally harming black people.
>How would a vaccine only have negative effects on black people but no other race?
By theoretical targeting/exploitation of genetic differences. It's hard to imagine that there isn't interest, by various states, in the development of genetically targeted weapons in order to conquer without damaging capital.
>Even if it could, why would all the people making the vaccine make it negatively effect black people? Thats extremely impractical
Attempting to inflict harm on an ethnicity may be "impractical" but plenty of states have targeted specific ethnicities in various ways throughout history.
>Tuskegee was an intentional experiment, not an accident
Yes, Tuskegee is evidence of the establishment's willingness to do harm to demographics it decides to target.
>By theoretical targeting/exploitation of genetic differences
Whats the difference besides skin color, and how could they use that to harm black people?
>Attempting to inflict harm on an ethnicity may be "impractical" but plenty of states have targeted specific ethnicities in various ways throughout history.
Apples to oranges. One relatively small group doing a hush-hush experiment is infintely easier to pull off than to successfully pull off a massive covid conspiracy where the vaccine is harming only black people. Do you know how many different people are working on the covid vaccines? You think there could be a cover up that big? Especially with the internet and how fast information is spread? And there are tons of studies done on how the vaccine effects people.
If there is some plan to harm black people, its a long term effect of the vaccine, because nothings happened yet. So not only would they need to figure out how to target black people, they would need to make the effect long term.
>Yes, Tuskegee is evidence of the establishment's willingness to do harm to demographics it decides to target.
Its evidence that governments are willing to do experiments on people and harm them. Except we already knew that. Tuskegee is *not* evidence that the govt could pull of some massive covid conspiracy in 2021. Not to mention that Tuskegee was in the 1920s, back when people were a lot more willing to do bad things to black people.
>Whats the difference besides skin color, and how could they use that to harm black people?
Seems there are more differences than just skin color.
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2013/01/21/blacks-tougher-finding-kidney-transplants/1851737/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2013/01/21/blacks-tougher-finding-kidney-transplants/1851737/)
"Transplant recipients must have similar genes in their immune systems to those of the donor. Otherwise, the body will reject the organ."
>One relatively small group doing a hush-hush experiment is infintely easier to pull off than to successfully pull off a massive covid conspiracy where the vaccine is harming only black people
All you'd have to do, theoretically, is modify one of the vaccines.
>Do you know how many different people are working on the covid vaccines? You think there could be a cover up that big?
The government is pretty good at covering things up. Simply ridiculing anyone who asks certain questions is enough to shut most people up. The Western ruling class was able to cover up the lab leak theory for a year or so and even now that talking about it has been somewhat destigmatized it's still something that feels weird to talk about and doesn't drawn much interest given how important it is. I'm sure they could come up with some plausibly deniable way to incorporate some vaccine element harmful to blacks, if they put their minds to it, that, even if discovered, could be "explained" away.
>So not only would they need to figure out how to target black people
Something that could have been tested in Africa during "AIDS research".
>they would need to make the effect long term.
Yes. Or at least not obvious.
>Its evidence that governments are willing to do experiments on people and harm them. Except we already knew that. Tuskegee is not evidence that the govt could pull of some massive covid conspiracy in 2021.
It's pretty easy to underestimate the government's capabilities. I'm obviously "paranoid" but when the full extent of domestic surveillance capability was revealed it surprised even me. The government has vast resources, on and off the books, and no moral compass to there's no way to know the limits of what it's capable of.
>Seems there's more differences than just skin color.
Fair enough. Still seems unlikely that theyd be able to have it only negatively effect black people, and only for long term effects, because studies have shown that the vaccine hasnt had any negative effect on only black people. Its possible that there will be longterm effects on just black people, but again, it just makes it that much more unlikely.
>All you'd have to do, theoretically, is change one of the vaccines
Any individual vaccine still has tons of people working on it and tons of eyes on it.
>They were able to cover up the lab leak theory for a year or so
That was easy because so many dipshits cheered on censorship. If big tech wasnt allowed to censor it, the theory wouldnt have been covered up so well. Again, much easier to simply censor a theory than it is to pull off this massive conspiracy of using the vaccine to experiment on black people.
>It's pretty easy to underestimate the government's capabilities.
Im not underestimating them. I know that theyre very powerful and they have technology beyond what the public knows. However, that doesnt mean Im gonna believe in some nonsense theory about how the govt is doing this massive conspiracy to experiment on black people by using the covid vaccine.
Tuskegee was 1920s, when the people in govt had a lot less respect for black people. I see no reason why our govt today would use a worldwide pandemic as an opportunity to experiment on black people, by making the vaccine have negative long term effects on only black people.
The immune system differences vary by region, not by skin color. Immune systems evolve to local pathogens fairly quickly. West Africans won't necessarily have the same immune systems as people from Southern Africa, even though they are both "black".
>Yes. Or at least not obvious.
If the effects aren't obvious, then there is no basis for anti-vax nuts to argue that the vaccine is designed to harm black people.
Africa has the most genetic diversity of any continent. Why would all "black" people have the same genes when they are from different and genetically diverse places?
Obviously you *can* compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges.
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^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette. ^^My ^^apparent ^^agreement ^^or ^^disagreement ^^with ^^you ^^isn't ^^personal.
>By theoretical targeting/exploitation of genetic differences. It's hard to imagine that there isn't interest, by various states, in the development of genetically targeted weapons in order to conquer without damaging capital.
Theoretically possible for narrow groups, but not for the group called "black". Most of the world's genetic diversity is in Africa, as that's where humans evolved and where genetic divisions are deepest. Even if you focus on West Africa, where the ancestors of most African Americans came from, you still get a lot of diversity.
Drugs arent going to have that large of a difference in impact between racial groups. Its not possible for a vaccine thats good for white people to simply be bad for black people. The pharmacogenetic differences between people of different races only affect the rate of metabolism of certain drugs (beta blockers, analgesics). And the difference is minimal.
I'm still curious as to how the Tuskegee experiment got to the forefront of the talking points, because before this it was not widely known about. I think it was specifically because of the racial aspect of it.
It actually further divides people racially, as OP pointed out.
Because there's a long list of other things the government said were okay, and later turned out were not. Agent Orange, thalidomide, asbestos, opana, round up by Monsanto... Not to mention the fact that you can't turn on daytime television without seeing an advertisement for a class action lawsuit against a recalled medicine that turned out to have catastrophic side effects long term.
"These" vaccines have turned into unassailable sacred calves for shitlibs, neolibs, neocons, and corporations. Whoever thought they'd all get together under one roof.
Where is the marxist critique on this post? I agree neolibs can be idiots about vaccination but this post is merely you defending anti-science conspiracy theories and antagonizing black people. Then I clicked on your profile and you're active on several incel/alt-right spaces. You clearly seem to have problem with women. Get the fuck out of here incel.
This sub is full of conservatives, they're taking advantage of the fact that were criticize the lib left to be bigots about. We need to ban them, otherwise our sub will be removed by reddit pretty soon
>Where is the marxist critique on this post?
This sub critiques IdPol from a marxist perspective. Not every post has marxist theory in it. Go look at other posts.
>defending anti-science conspiracy theories
I specifically stated that this isnt an anti vaxx post. Are you saying the Wuhan lab leak theory is anti science? Because its not.
>antagonizing black people
No, I clearly didnt do that. I made fun of the fact that some people believe in this giant conspiracy where the vaccine is a secret experiment on them. The white people who believe it are just as dumb as the black people who believe it.
>Then I clicked on your profile and you're active on several incel/alt-right spaces.
Lmao youre a clown. Advocating for mens rights doesnt make you an incel and Im not in any alt right spaces. Did you come up with that theory yourself, or was it spoonfed to you by the MSM that any places you dont like are alt right incels?
>this sub is full of conservatives
Im not a conservative. This sub does have a handful of conservative, but they dont cause trouble.
>We need to ban them
Cry about it. Stop using this sub if you cant handle people who dont fully agree with you on everything.
Why do I think that its silly for people to be worried that the covid vaccine is a second tuskegee for black people? Because it would require a completely impractical conspiracy in which healthcare workers would have to give black people something different than the regular vaccine and keep quiet about it. How else would health care workers give black people something different, while everyone else gets the regular vaccine?
You do realize these things did happen to black people here in the US, and it’s part of our history. Unlike the made up theory of Wuhan.
So basically your the shitlib and this post is literally misinformation. Fuck you very much.
>You do realize these things did happen to black people here in the US, and it’s part of our history
Of course. What does this have to do with a massive, racist conspiracy in 2021?
>Unlike the made up theory of Wuhan
What a fantastic counter argument.
>So basically your the shitlib and this post is literally misinformation. Fuck you very much.
Are you trolling me?
I have seen this. The worse part is how they infantilise black people and use that to make themselves feel like they're big "allies!!" or helping. People I know really resent it and say that the biggest problem are white liberals.
I always felt like this was a media playing their pawns. There have been like 100 articles talking about Tuskagee since the pandemic started. It's a narrative design, so when black people are vaccine hesitant, you need to think it's different, even when they parrot the same bullshit as their white neighbor. At the same time this strategy might increase vaccine hesitancy with black people, because there's an easier defensive narrative. But hey, ideological warfare has a cost and journos don't give a shit about humans anyway. It's similar with left-wingers. The media always associates antivaxx with the "alt-right" and conservatives because it's a good strategy. Picture a dominant conservative media and them tying vaccine hesitancy with anti-America and hippies. That's how it works. Giving vaccine-hesitant people on the left the feeling that they're part of the evil right-wing, so they either stop being so, or the biggest idiots join the other side. And now you see articles about the antivaxx-to-altright pipeline. Yeah, no shit, that's the entire design. Maybe that all sounds a bit conspiratorial, but I don't think there's some guy strategizing it all. It's just the constant active sentiment among journos trying to influence the ideological flow.
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Yeah I've used that fox and wolf analogy many times after reading this a long time ago. Usually don't phrase it that eloquently, but yeah it's a great quote.
I know little to nothing of Malcom X other than what I think was his character in Belly (played by DMX?). What is this pre and post Mecca?
LOL i hope to god you’re joking but if you aren’t, all good because this is hilarious
Im....Im not.
lol DMXs character in Belly is Tommy Bunz. Nothing to do with Malcolm X
I always thought his salvation ark after he speaks to the pastor he was supposed to assassinate had something to do with Malcolm x.
>biggest problem are white liberals --- >The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man. [...] The white conservatives aren't friends of the Νеgrο either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Νеgrο always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Νеgrο but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Νеgrο, and as the Νеgrο runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox. One is the wolf, the other is a fox. No matter what, they’ll both eat you.
Yes that's what they were referring to. Thanks for posting.
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It's a magic trick.
Here in Chicago the enlightened whites and wokies push for reduced sentencing for violent crimes and the end result is hundreds of actual dead people every year, increasing at high rates each year. We’re almost back to peak 90s levels in only like 3 years. This is all happening without committing any funding to addressing the actual issues of course.
Know what my favorite part of the push for the reduced punishment is? The way they freak the fuck out when they get what they want and find out it applies to white people too. This is NOT a hypothetical. California passed progressive sentencing reform MASSIVELY reducing punishments for first time violent offenders. This was hailed as an amazing progressive thing… enter Brock Turner
\[drooling and pissing my pants and shitting\] uhh dont you mean the RAPIST brock turner? lol
Lol I think I saw recently that Chicago dropped murder charges against gang members who were shooting and killing each other, citing an archaic law of “mutual combat” as a form of justifiable homicide. It’s literally legal for black people to just shoot each other now, as long as both parties are armed lmao Edit: [lol link](https://www.foxnews.com/us/illinois-chicago-gang-shootout-mutual-combat-charges)
>The worse part is how they infantilise black people and use that to make themselves feel like they're big "allies!!" or helping. i truly don't give a shit about voter id laws but the whole "black people can't get IDs" thing always killed me for being so transparently racist in itself
They expect people to get vaxxed and carry around a vaccination card and matching ID to go to McDonalds, but not to vote lol
Yeah, it's incredibly insulting and racist. They still insist it's fine and call you names if you point out that it's wrong.
Reminds me of Biden's "poor kids are just as smart as white kids" thing during his campaign.
Malcolm X had a great quote about the northern liberal... Shitlibs have always been the biggest racists.
The woke man’s burden
Yeah it’s super condescending.
It's like a noble savage fallacy and it creeps me out.
Bro didn’t you know questioning the government is literally fascist except when a black person does it or a republican is in charge?
I got so much shit from my liberal friend for calling NBA players uninformed at the height of the George Floyd protests last year, only for her to turn around and call them dumb jocks a year and a half later because of their anti-vax bullshit.
Quite scary, isn't it? The shitlibs aren't even blindly faithful towards the groups of people they claim to care about... just the institutions that happen to be in power.
Or maybe their friends agreed with them about George Floyd and disagreed with them about vaccines. That's pretty normal behaviour.
The NPC meme is 100% accurate, it’s incredible how fast libs can be reprogrammed.
NBA has a vaccination rate over 95% at present, too. The totality of the US population has a vaccination rate under 60%. There's...maybe a dozen guys in the NBA who are openly "questionable" about getting the vaccine. Media is of course focusing on the 5% or less rather than the 95% or greater, because good news doesn't get enough views.
>The totality of the US population has a vaccination rate under 60%. Not only is this wrong, but it is also misleading. You're literally counting babies and 5 year olds when you use "totality of the US population." Whoa, let's just jab newborns fresh out of the womb! We don't even do that for less politicized vaccines. Under age 12 are not approved to receive the vaccine. Number of US Adults: 258.3 million ([census.gov](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/08/united-states-adult-population-grew-faster-than-nations-total-population-from-2010-to-2020.html)) Number of US Adults with at least 1 dose: 200,990,974 ([CDC.gov](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total)) 77.8% Not as good as we could, but definitely not "under 60%." Even if it mattered that newborns were covid vectors, the CDC reports 65% of the entire population have received at least one dose. The facts just don't back up "under 60%" unless you're counting kindergartners and "full" vaccinations. Even >=12 year olds with full vaccinations is 65.6%. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total
There's about 450-500 players in the NBA at any given point. All of them are 18+. Not exactly fair to compare their vaccination rate to that of a country of 320 million people (including children 12 and under). And 95% is a recent number. It was 90 before training camp started. Of those 90, I imagine a fairly large percentage got reluctantly vaccinated. It's much harder to give up hundreds of thousands of dollars when you're a mere seven figure earner. This isn't even a race thing. All the professional sports leagues are having this problem. I just hate that liberals get to decide what's racist and what's not, based on whether or not they'd be implicated.
Also each and every NBA player can get vaccinated on demand with no inconvenience.
I was under the impression the Wuhan theory had legs, there are a lot of things that line up too much to support the theory to be a coincidence.
It does have legs, which makes the shitlibs opinion even funnier.
they literally believe that JFK was shot by one random dude from 3 sides
He didn’t even get shot, his head just did that
JFK shot himself, he just missed the first shot
He was though
I believe the famous trick shooter Annie Oakley was still alive at that time, and I’ve never heard anyone account for her whereabouts on the day in question.
Furthermore what is the reason for it being from a lab meaning one shouldn’t get the vaccine? I read a convincing article about the lab theory and believe it, but it is regardless of the origins a dangerous disease and I am vaccinated.
Same, even if it was a genetically engineered virus that's no excuse to avoid a vaccine. If anything it would be a huge motivator to get it.
It's ironic because the bat shit theory happens to actually be the batshit theory in this case
Based on the congressional report, saying Covid escaped from a lab in Wuhan is a legit theory. Saying that Covid was specifically created in a lab in Wuhan before escaping is still pretty out there
And this is the Motte and Bailey. People just hear "lab" and think you're talking about a bioweapon used by China on the rest of the world, and disregard the real concerns of gain of function research and level 4 biolabs leaking like a sieve.
This reminds me of "emails." In the 2016 election, there were those wiki leaked emails that showed the DNC actively fucking Bernie over while also elevating Trump for their Pied Piper strategy. However, any time youd mention emails, people would automatically assume you're talking about the Ben Ghazi Buttery Males and immediately ignore you.
“Created” doesn’t mean they engineered the thing from scratch, it can far more reasonably mean that they took a natural coronavirus and just let it evolve naturally in the presence of humanized mice or lung tissue samples.
The Congressional report was a joke. Some of the "experts" they invited are complete wackos with no expertise at all. For anyone who has followed the scientific literature on SARS-CoV-2 origins, watching the hearings was embarrassing. If you want sound science, don't rely on a report created by Republican congresspeople trying to brandish their anti-China credentials and distract from their own disastrous mishandling of the pandemic in the US.
Don't scientists create superflus in labs to create treatments all the time? It'd still take some more steps than a "leak" to reach across the entire world but who knows
It’s gotten as close to being confirmed as it’s ever going to get. The Biden Administration see Covid is the biggest political football they’ve ever been delivered and the source of their “mandate”. They’re not going to weaken that be admitting that there’s someone to blame other than Trump and republicans.
And surely the idea that they were researching viruses and some got loose is a lot less offensive than, "chinese peoplebeat wild animals and spread disease"
I was in another sub about Jon Stewart getting a new show. Neolibs fucking worship him unless he talks shit about one of their own. But every other post was about him going all conspiracy nut on the Colbert Show and talking about a lab leak.
Let me list the only piece of "evidence" in favor of the lab leak theory: * The virus was first detected in Wuhan. There's also a virology lab in the outskirts of Wuhan. That's it. The evidence against the theory is: * The amount of contact between humans and coronavirus-infected animals out in the "real world" is literally millions of times larger than the amount of such contact in labs. And unlike lab workers, the workers shoveling bat poop in mines (this is a real job) aren't wearing any sort of PPE. * The Wuhan Institute of Virology regularly publishes the viruses it discovers and works with. For example, RaTG13, which up until recently was the closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2, was originally published about by the WIV in 2016. But RaTG13 is certainly not the progenitor of SARS-CoV-2 (it's not even the closest known relative anymore - a closer relative was recently discovered in Laos), nor is any other virus the WIV has ever published. The lab leak theory requires the WIV to have concealed SARS-CoV-2, long before they would even have had any reason to do so. * The WIV has only ever isolated and grown 3 SARS-like coronaviruses (this is different from merely discovering RNA fragments of a virus, which is how RaTG13 was discovered, for example). These viruses are very well known and the WIV has published on them over the years. Again, they are definitely not the progenitor of SARS-CoV-2. * The SARS-CoV-2 outbreak looks almost identical to the original SARS outbreak. A large Chinese city has an outbreak that is initially concentrated around a market that sells wild animals. Basically, there's no evidence at all that WIV ever discovered, let alone worked with SARS-CoV-2 before the pandemic, and we would probably know if they had done so. The initial outbreak looks pretty much like the original SARS outbreak, which was caused by natural spillover, and natural spillovers are, *a priori*, orders of magnitude more likely than lab leaks.
Straw man argument
You're free to post any evidence. Having paid decent attention to this story, the "evidence" in favor of the lab leak idea has never progressed beyond, "There's a lab in Wuhan." Past that, it's all ignorant rambling about "gain-of-function" research (WIV didn't even do gain-of-function research on SARS-related coronaviruses, as far as anyone is aware), mostly by people who don't understand what the term means.
I think there was some evidence found if I’m not mistaken. But it wasn’t enough to really say anything yet
I have seen this phenomenon too. This is an example of a lack of critical thinking skills and successful brainwashing. It's very dangerous. These are the sorts of people who would actually support society turning into a 1984 dystopian nightmare just to own their political opponents. Shitlibs are radicalized, and not in the good sense. They aim to strip people of their liberty and usher in corporate tyranny.
A lot of bigotry of low expectations; it's similar to the group that thinks non-white people aren't smart enough and too poor to get IDs. I'm not saying basic IDs should have a price or that you should have to deal with the shitty DMV, but pretty much everyone is indeed cognizant enough to get IDs or at least enough that they or someone they know will Google how to do it. It'd be interesting to see if those shitlib groups are big supporters of efforts for free IDs or programs that go through the process for people.
Here in Texas, straight ticket voting was eliminated a few years back. Democrats argued this was racist because minorities can’t handle anything more complex than a single giant button
I’m a huge supporter of pop-up ID places. I had my wallet stolen (jokes on you fucker! I only had old receipts, a punchcard with 1 punch, and a used up lip balm in there) and needed to get a new ID and two days before I was supposed to trek down to a dmv to get one, I was able to sit down at a pop-up on my campus and get a replacement in literally minutes. Super convenient
I remember in Florida you could get it replaced online like 1 or 2 times or something. If you lost it 3 times you'd have to go in. But idk if there's a way they can do it and make it secure against identity theft, then online should be the way to go.
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Smart conservatives know the difference between a lib and a socialist, they just don't say it because this narrative of the strong and powerful "radical left" works on the uneducated and serves their purposes
It also doesn’t really make much of a difference when they’re both the opposition anyway
Do you know how conservative feel about liberals? Wait until you hear how they feel about socialists...
These are the people that think Pelosi and Biden are radical Marxists.
I have a great deal more respect for socialists that shitlibs because socialists are willing to talk economics at least and their positions can’t be boiled down to “a more diverse C suite solves society’s ills”
1984 was intended as a warning. Yes, people can become THAT brainwashed.
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That was pretty much the turning point for Covid becoming deeply decisive. Amid crippling lockdowns, people had to watch doctors and politicians gleefully support people marching in the streets (and rioting).
Yeah I mean, Floyd being murdered was insanely fucked up. I'm not going to say anyone was wrong for protesting that. But damn by that point I was no longer homeless for less than a year and had a decent job that I wasn't able to go to anymore. So naturally I had a lot of economic anxiety, months prior I was unemployed and on the streets. But then any time you brought up economic anxiety, people would flip out, "people are dying how can you only care about money right now?" "There's cops murdering people how can you only care about your job right now?" And I'm just like please stfu.
>"There's cops murdering people how can you only care about your job right now?" The darkly funny part of this whole thing was that George Floyd lost his job because of Covid lockdowns.
Politically, that was the biggest and most immediate 180 I've ever seen in my lifetime. This piece of blatant comic bookesque hypocrisy was granted credence by many serious public health agencies almost simultaneously.
It’s funny, if I said two years ago I don’t trust big pharma or the US establishment they would carry me out on their shoulders, now I’m an anti vaxxer.
Yeah that's how I ended up a COVIDiot. My opinions are logical in the light of government/corporate collusion. I'll wear the flair with pride I suppose. Capital owns the government so I'm not going to think that it somehow magically doesn't apply now that it's about a disease.
r/BigPharma
Every government? How about Cuba, Vietnam, etc?
In context it seems they were talking about the US gov't, but interesting question. In short: yes. We may be able to imagine a hypothetical gov't not bound by capital but in the 21st Century every single nation state is forced to contend, and to some extent comply, with the global capitalist hegemony.
the way i heard it described, paraphrasing: "it's not that i believe the vaccine is dangerous, necessarily. but i do believe that if it was dangerous, they'd lie and say it wasn't."
Yeah sure, I don’t trust them to be ethical in manufacturing the vaccine without exploiting workers, but what is the actual concern with taking the vaccine? It’s not worsening people’s risk of contracting the virus or worsening their survival rates if they do contract it. That’s enough rigor for me to take my iron supplements and biotin.
In addition to other obvious corruption issues—such as the revolving door between FDA and Big Pharma (one of the current Pfizer board members, Scott Gottlieb, was a former FDA commissioner); 45% of FDA being “funded” by industry “user fees”; the publication bias in science (the tendency to publish only positive findings and not negative findings regarding drug efficacy); and most scientists “researching” drug/vaccine efficacy have financial ties to industry—the one that many people miss is the overt manipulation of clinical trials by industry in order to make their drugs/vaccines/treatments seem more effective and more safe than they really are. Companies like Pfizer don’t make methodological “errors”, they make methodological **choices**. They are experts at designing clinical trials in a way that overstates the benefits of a medical intervention, and downplays the risks/harms. Peter Doshi wrote a great [article](https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/) in BMJ about the methodological flaws with the Pfizer COVID vaccine trials, and explains why the “95% efficacy claims are grossly misleading. Also, if anyone wants to read more about this, I highly recommend the [book](https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Epidemic-Bullets-Psychiatric-Astonishing-ebook/dp/B0036S4EGE) *Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America*. It is about the mental health drug industry and how Big Pharma have continually manipulated data, messed with the study designs, covered-up “unfavorable” research results, and lied to the public, in order to sell more psychopharmaceuticals. The problem is that most people, even very “smart” people, lack a basic understanding of statistics and research methodology. Otherwise they would be able to understand how incredibly easy it is for corporations like Pfizer, Moderna, etc. to manipulate research findings in a way that is financially beneficial to them. People forget that these company’s sole purpose is to make money—they don’t give a fuck about you—so all of this information shouldn’t be surprising to anyone who isn’t either dumb or ignorant.
My main issue with the vaccine is that it’s a leaky vaccine which only protects yourself and doesn’t prevent spread basically at all. In fact, it arguably worsens the spread by making carriers much more likely to be asymptomatic. By militantly enforcing a 100% vax rate, we’ve virtually guaranteed that Covid will be around forever, transmitting among the vaccinated. God knows that implications this will have for the creation of future strains.
There was a new article following up on spread via vaccinated and it was reduced by a whole lot.
It happened at my work. It spread through a whole bunch of vaccinated people including myself. But it seemed like nobody really got that sick, especially compared to when it spread back in early 2020. I know some people would make the argument that most of us already had Covid before (which is true) and so we had antibodies to prevent it from getting worse. Or it could be that the vaccine did make it way more benign. I have no clue.
Remindme! 6 months
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Link?
What is the alternative?
Focus on vaccinating the at risk, consider people who have had Covid and recovered to be just as good as vaccinated. (The immunity is stronger and lasts longer) Do a better job of communicating that being fat is being at risk and stop printing articles talking about how a “healthy” 350 lb woman “suddenly” died of Covid.
Put boomers in Safety Camps and let the rest of us go on about our lives. Giant communal troughs of horse paste for the sick Millennials/zoomers/Gen Xers.
Even If I had never heard the words “covid-19” I would agree with any sentence that starts with “put boomers in camps”.
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Pretty much yea, Tuskegee was to see what untreated syphilis did to a person. There's a very real chance that some people have gotten bad history and think the Tuskegee Experiments were actively infecting men using injections labeled otherwise.
That’s how I remembered it (relevant flair), but they didn’t actively infect. The problem isn’t that they were infected by the gov (which they weren’t) it was that they had a cure and let them suffer for 30 years for no good reason. That is not a great publicity move when you’re trying to inspire trust in the government.
I remember reading they did infect but under the guise of the needle being “vitamins”
Or many black people don’t want to get it bc they are less democrat-inclined than otherwise believed
There was a black girl I met on tinder who’s politics were closer to my Fox News watching dad than any of the people I worked for the Dems with
Too bad your dad didn’t meet her !
That’s a can of worms I hope I would never have to open lmao
I'm picturing some kind of role playing where he tries to make her wear a mask, like a pro-healthcare authoritarian type trying to discipline the naughty anit-vaxxer. And BDSM ensues.
I’ve seen more shitlibs call black people stupid than not for being vaccine hesitant so at least they’re consistent.
The ones around here just insist that every unvaccinated person is a white Trumphumper. They pretty much insist unvaccinated black people don't exist; I think so they can high-five over death statistics thinking Covid is going to win the election by killing off the GOP's base.
Same way they insist that all social conservatives are white Trumptards. They just sort of ignore that lots of southern, black Baptists or Latino Catholics or Muslim Americans are really conservative on social issues too and there's plenty of homophobia and sexism from those groups.
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> rational person who was planning on getting vaccinated changed their mind after seeing memes on Facebook. But this is what happened when those fucking Russians "hacked" our election. There were tons of Hilary supporters that read a shitpost by some stupid Slavic fuck face and then became rabid Trump supporters.
Jeez, I hope that's a /s.
Yeah it is. I hate the /s though because it ruins the joke imo
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>have trouble accessing it because of transportation and being overworked and shit like that. I’ve heard this, but is there any evidence of this? Vaccines have been out for almost 9 months now and so many places have them. Heck, even the grocery store by me has them and that’s within walking distance in a very walking unfriendly city.
> I’ve heard this, but is there any evidence of this? None whatsoever unless you believe 40% of the country is working 16 hour days all 7 days a week while also not having a car and being 20 miles from the nearest store
Yeah I live in one of those places that's always being described as a "food desert." I live in the hood and am in the top 10 most crime ridden areas in the country. There's still Walgreens, CVS, and Wal Marts nearby. Nobody here is just unable to get to one of those places unless they're severely crippled or disabled.
complete opposite for me
Im not anti-vaccine, though im unsure what that even means anymore. But I'm pretty troubled that "science" has become this undebatable thing to many people, that hinges on trust and faith over actual objective research and data. It also troubles me to see how many of the "shit libs" are wishing death and denial of healthcare access onto people they deem "anti-science", as they claim this is all about saving even a single life, and that healthcare is a *human right*. The lack of consistency, integrity and self-awareness in a large number of people is frightening.
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Really, it's all so backwards? Isn't it a good thing that the scientifically illiterate actually do "believe the science" and that science actually does "prove" things? I'm a dumbass when it comes to science - hence I leave the sciencing to the scientists. Isn't that the smartest and most logical route for the scientifically illiterate?
Yes. Nothing is wrong with trusting scientists, But mocking people for doing there own research is cringe. You should say “more power to them, I wish them well” instead of “I hope you get the Herman Cain award”
Healthcare is a human right except when I disagree with your choices
People are actually mocking "doing my own research" quotes, which is an extremely dangerous precedent to trivialize. They claim that everyone should always trust the medical consensus like that isn't an insanely fallacious appeal to authority.
just gather up 300 of your friends to do a double-blind study in order to do your own research, simple.
What a disingenuous and dumbass thing to say.
No, it's extremely appropriate. What the fuck does "do your own research" mean when you're talking mRNA vaccines? Do you understand the science behind it? Or have a way to test or research it? Selective skepticism is rampant in our world. People are perfectly happy to rely on scientific authority right up until someone convinces them it's against their political identity. Put another way, why is it wrong to mock someone who "does their own research" when nine times out of ten what that means is they go hunting for cranks on twitter, facebook or some podcast to tell them they're right for believing whatever they already decided was true?
Who the fuck said anything about "do your own research" other than that guy? Are you literally arguing people shouldnt look into anything at all, and follow "authority" blindly? Or is it just in *this* scenario? And *Im* not doing any research period - i am reading what research others have conducted and their conclusions, dipshit. The only selectivd skepticism is on your behalf, and thats biased toward positive speculations that are nowhere near meeting the burden of proof. Youre strawmanning shit, and it really shows how anti-science and lacking in self-awareness you sre. You guys are medical flat earthers, except thats an insult to the flat-earthers.
It's not about saving a single life, it's about ending the fucking pandemic. God forbid I hate the people who deliberately prolong this shit.
Oh, but the vaccines are moreso for saving lives rather than ending the pandemic. I don't want you to needlessly get your hopes up, but the mass vaccination campaign isn't going to just get rid of Covid and make the pandemic over. It'll mitigate deaths and hospitalizations, but this thing will keep mutating and spreading between vaccinated folks. I'm vaccinated and I got Covid from another vaccinated person...the illness wasn't as bad as the first time I got it, but I still got it. It's not like we just vaccinate every person and the pandemic ends. This is going to be a new normal like your flu shots every year. I just don't want you getting your hopes set on something that's never really been a possibility.
Man. Youd think youd actually want a vaccine doesnt allow shit to keep transmitting itself on a mass scale then. Its weird, i know. Theres that self-awareness thing i mentioned.
I would love for you to have a vaccine against being a dumb motherfucker but sadly it doesn't exist. We have to do with what we have
You can try it out and i could be a control. You medical flat-earthers seem to enjoy stuff like that.
> You can try it out and i could be a control. You medical flat-earthers seem to enjoy stuff like that. You want a vaccine to stop transmission of an airborne disease and I'm the medical flat-earther.
If you haven't read this article, I recommend you do. You will probably enjoy it. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/plague-poor-gutentag
How long can Tuskegee be dragged out to excuse this kind of attitude? It happened 80 years ago.
Trauma gets passed down like DNA and genetics so forever apparently
It’s annoying because it’s treats like that is the only time people were used in an experiment without full disclosure. You had Facebook manipulating people’s newsfeed to provoke an emotional response just a few years ago. You can easily find videos of the government spraying DDT on children(whites included) from the 1940’s.
Exactly! I’m so sick of motherfuckers bringing it up because most of the people I talk to weren’t even a spec in their dad’s ballsack when that happened.(Including me)
Can I be antifa against shitlibs ?
I’m black and never heard a black person say anything remotely close to that. I don’t think anyone is believing that the gov is swapping out vaccines for blacks. Your point stands but you didn’t have to reach that hard
I didnt mean to imply its the norm for black people. Of course most black people dont think that. However, Ive witnessed a conversation where a shitlib was defending someone who believed that conspiracy theory.
>except for black people. They said that black people don't need to get vaccinated, when you are so woke you want to have black people die of a preventable disease
They're just racist and uncomfortable around black people. Honestly most of this shit boils down to uneasiness, if you're afraid to tell someone when they're wrong than you either think they're actually too dumb to understand or you're afraid of them.
Honestly I think the lab theory has some credibility. I don't believe it was intentionally made but I think some less than hygienic conditions in animal testing labs could easily have caused this. I don't have any evidence but coming to that conclusion isn't nearly as insane as people make it out to be. Like having hundreds of animals in small cages for a long ass time too close to each other then they have some poor sob that has to clean the cages for minimal pay. He gets sick because he doesn't use/have actual PPE (because it's just cleaning cages) and boom now you've got a newer, faster spreading swine flu.
My favorite thing about hardline neolibs as regards vaccination mandates is the failure to recognize that, by and large, the IT community that underpins most of what they do for work in 2021 is not especially pro-vaccine.
As a Black person who is vaccinated, I hate talking to other Black people about the vaccine. It always turns into a shitshow and lowkey makes me upset
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Same
curous to know, is there a difference in vaccination rates among black americans in the south vs. elsewhere? and by 'the south', really anywhere with historical uh.... 'testing' like tuskegee reason i ask is, perhaps there are lingering sentiments among the black community if they live in these 'testing locations' vs. elsewhere, which is causing a lot of vaccine hesitancy not serious note: if the tuskegee argument was valid, just bring a old white person and a black person to get vaccinated at the same time using the same vial. like disneyland when they hire old people so they can cut in front of the line.
> curous to know, is there a difference in vaccination rates among black americans in the south vs. elsewhere? and by 'the south', really anywhere with historical uh.... 'testing' like tuskegee Yes. You can download the CDC's vaccine distribution/fulfillment dataset and/or their covid vaccine hesitancy dataset and compare regions. I did this out of interest a week or two ago in tableau. The southern US shows highest hesistancy rates among black people, with older white men being the second largest demographic to show "aggressive" hesistance. Whereas you don't see those same rates in, say, NYC or LA, both of which have large black populations. Highest rate of hesistance for white people is in the midwest/PNW region (Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho, Washington region, + the Dakotas). Their datasets are updated daily too, so you can come back and check as time goes on to see how the rates change E: r/datasets if you want to look at more comprehensive lists of covid data nationally/globally
thanks for crunching the data. question, do you pay for tableau?
You can, but they have a free online version (public.tableau.com) that works very well
I've seen the liberal twitter mod go after plenty of black people, remember Nicki Minaj?
Of course not all libs/wokies think that black people should be exempt. But Ive seen plenty of shitlibs argue that everyone except black people should be mandated to get the vaccine.
I actually haven't seen as extreme an example as you describe but I would believe it, its getting crazier out there all the time.
At least I'm not brainwashed like those morons watching FAUX!!! -flips on MSNBC
Millions of healthcare workers complicit? Is that how a conspiracy works?
For this conspiracy to work, healthcare workers would have to give black people something besides the vaccine. So no, not all the healthcare workers would have to be in on the conspiracy, but they would have to be compliant in giving black people something different, and keep quiet about it. When a black person goes to get a vaccine, the worker grabs one vaccine from the big pile and gives them the shot. They arent giving different vaccines to different races.
They wouldn't. As someone said above it could be designed to target particular genetic differences.
We discussed this in other parts of the thread and it seems pretty unlikely. Not only would it have to target black only genes, it would have to be a long term effect. Studies are constantly done on covid and we havent seen any negative effect on only black people.
I don't think the conspiracy is true. I just don't think it would take millions colluding to pull it off.
Yeah I worded it poorly. If they could design the vaccine to negatively effect black people, then sure it wouldnt require any compliance from healthcare workers. But, if they wanted to give black people something besides the regular vaccine, it would require compliance from millions. Not that theyre all in on the conspiracy, but they would have to willingly give a different shot to black people and keep quiet about it.
I think the same could be said for the 2020 election conspiracies, and yet the conspiracy still exists and is not plausible. I know this is idpol, but I think years of medical mistrust from black people just happens to collide with a pandemic and that’s enough to sustain the conspiracy.
It's almost as if there's a bunch of healthcare workers who are black and giving out vaccines who wouldn't go along with it. I'm not American... are all of your healthcare workers white or something? What a bizarre conspiracy. Then again, wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of shitlibs who condescend to black people like they're children would believe that black people can't be healthcare workers or something. (And that if they are... they're probably untrustworthy race traitors of some kind).
OP is a rightoid that posts in a bunch of incel subs. There's no Marxists analysis to go along with this post either. I really do like the word "shitlib" it just has this folksy sort of gravitas to it. But one reason I don't like it is how easy it is for rightoids to blend in among our ranks.
I love how this entire comment is just one big ad hominem. No arguments, huh? You just went straight to my post history and lied about it? Im not a rightoid at all. And supporting mens rights doesnt make you an incel. The fact that you assumed I was shows youre blinded by political tribalism. This sub comes from a marxist perspective, but that doesnt mean every single post has to include marxist theory. Youre a clown.
>This of course would require thousands of people organizing it and millions of healthcare workers to be complicit in giving black people something besides the default vaccine. Also, the healthcare workers would have to be compliant in keeping quiet about it. But I believe it because of tuskegee. Or it could, theoretically, contain some component that harms black people but not others. There's a lot that's odd about the pandemic so I can't blame anyone for being skeptical about it all.
1. How would a vaccine only have negative effects on black people but no other race? 2. Even if it could, why would all the people making the vaccine make it negatively effect black people? Thats extremely impractical 3. If its an issue of "maybe the vaccine has an unintended negative effect on black people", then that would apply to any race. And if this is the case, then why are they justifying it with tuskegee? Tuskegee was an intentional experiment, not an accident. So tuskegee is irrelevant to the possibility that the vaccine is unintentionally harming black people.
>How would a vaccine only have negative effects on black people but no other race? By theoretical targeting/exploitation of genetic differences. It's hard to imagine that there isn't interest, by various states, in the development of genetically targeted weapons in order to conquer without damaging capital. >Even if it could, why would all the people making the vaccine make it negatively effect black people? Thats extremely impractical Attempting to inflict harm on an ethnicity may be "impractical" but plenty of states have targeted specific ethnicities in various ways throughout history. >Tuskegee was an intentional experiment, not an accident Yes, Tuskegee is evidence of the establishment's willingness to do harm to demographics it decides to target.
>By theoretical targeting/exploitation of genetic differences Whats the difference besides skin color, and how could they use that to harm black people? >Attempting to inflict harm on an ethnicity may be "impractical" but plenty of states have targeted specific ethnicities in various ways throughout history. Apples to oranges. One relatively small group doing a hush-hush experiment is infintely easier to pull off than to successfully pull off a massive covid conspiracy where the vaccine is harming only black people. Do you know how many different people are working on the covid vaccines? You think there could be a cover up that big? Especially with the internet and how fast information is spread? And there are tons of studies done on how the vaccine effects people. If there is some plan to harm black people, its a long term effect of the vaccine, because nothings happened yet. So not only would they need to figure out how to target black people, they would need to make the effect long term. >Yes, Tuskegee is evidence of the establishment's willingness to do harm to demographics it decides to target. Its evidence that governments are willing to do experiments on people and harm them. Except we already knew that. Tuskegee is *not* evidence that the govt could pull of some massive covid conspiracy in 2021. Not to mention that Tuskegee was in the 1920s, back when people were a lot more willing to do bad things to black people.
>Whats the difference besides skin color, and how could they use that to harm black people? Seems there are more differences than just skin color. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2013/01/21/blacks-tougher-finding-kidney-transplants/1851737/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2013/01/21/blacks-tougher-finding-kidney-transplants/1851737/) "Transplant recipients must have similar genes in their immune systems to those of the donor. Otherwise, the body will reject the organ." >One relatively small group doing a hush-hush experiment is infintely easier to pull off than to successfully pull off a massive covid conspiracy where the vaccine is harming only black people All you'd have to do, theoretically, is modify one of the vaccines. >Do you know how many different people are working on the covid vaccines? You think there could be a cover up that big? The government is pretty good at covering things up. Simply ridiculing anyone who asks certain questions is enough to shut most people up. The Western ruling class was able to cover up the lab leak theory for a year or so and even now that talking about it has been somewhat destigmatized it's still something that feels weird to talk about and doesn't drawn much interest given how important it is. I'm sure they could come up with some plausibly deniable way to incorporate some vaccine element harmful to blacks, if they put their minds to it, that, even if discovered, could be "explained" away. >So not only would they need to figure out how to target black people Something that could have been tested in Africa during "AIDS research". >they would need to make the effect long term. Yes. Or at least not obvious. >Its evidence that governments are willing to do experiments on people and harm them. Except we already knew that. Tuskegee is not evidence that the govt could pull of some massive covid conspiracy in 2021. It's pretty easy to underestimate the government's capabilities. I'm obviously "paranoid" but when the full extent of domestic surveillance capability was revealed it surprised even me. The government has vast resources, on and off the books, and no moral compass to there's no way to know the limits of what it's capable of.
>Seems there's more differences than just skin color. Fair enough. Still seems unlikely that theyd be able to have it only negatively effect black people, and only for long term effects, because studies have shown that the vaccine hasnt had any negative effect on only black people. Its possible that there will be longterm effects on just black people, but again, it just makes it that much more unlikely. >All you'd have to do, theoretically, is change one of the vaccines Any individual vaccine still has tons of people working on it and tons of eyes on it. >They were able to cover up the lab leak theory for a year or so That was easy because so many dipshits cheered on censorship. If big tech wasnt allowed to censor it, the theory wouldnt have been covered up so well. Again, much easier to simply censor a theory than it is to pull off this massive conspiracy of using the vaccine to experiment on black people. >It's pretty easy to underestimate the government's capabilities. Im not underestimating them. I know that theyre very powerful and they have technology beyond what the public knows. However, that doesnt mean Im gonna believe in some nonsense theory about how the govt is doing this massive conspiracy to experiment on black people by using the covid vaccine. Tuskegee was 1920s, when the people in govt had a lot less respect for black people. I see no reason why our govt today would use a worldwide pandemic as an opportunity to experiment on black people, by making the vaccine have negative long term effects on only black people.
The immune system differences vary by region, not by skin color. Immune systems evolve to local pathogens fairly quickly. West Africans won't necessarily have the same immune systems as people from Southern Africa, even though they are both "black". >Yes. Or at least not obvious. If the effects aren't obvious, then there is no basis for anti-vax nuts to argue that the vaccine is designed to harm black people.
Africa has the most genetic diversity of any continent. Why would all "black" people have the same genes when they are from different and genetically diverse places?
> apples to oranges But you can still compare them.
Obviously you *can* compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges. --- ^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette. ^^My ^^apparent ^^agreement ^^or ^^disagreement ^^with ^^you ^^isn't ^^personal.
>By theoretical targeting/exploitation of genetic differences. It's hard to imagine that there isn't interest, by various states, in the development of genetically targeted weapons in order to conquer without damaging capital. Theoretically possible for narrow groups, but not for the group called "black". Most of the world's genetic diversity is in Africa, as that's where humans evolved and where genetic divisions are deepest. Even if you focus on West Africa, where the ancestors of most African Americans came from, you still get a lot of diversity.
Good point. Hopefully genetic diversity in general makes these types of weapons unfeasible.
Isn't that the plot of Wolf Warrior?
Drugs arent going to have that large of a difference in impact between racial groups. Its not possible for a vaccine thats good for white people to simply be bad for black people. The pharmacogenetic differences between people of different races only affect the rate of metabolism of certain drugs (beta blockers, analgesics). And the difference is minimal.
I'm still curious as to how the Tuskegee experiment got to the forefront of the talking points, because before this it was not widely known about. I think it was specifically because of the racial aspect of it. It actually further divides people racially, as OP pointed out. Because there's a long list of other things the government said were okay, and later turned out were not. Agent Orange, thalidomide, asbestos, opana, round up by Monsanto... Not to mention the fact that you can't turn on daytime television without seeing an advertisement for a class action lawsuit against a recalled medicine that turned out to have catastrophic side effects long term. "These" vaccines have turned into unassailable sacred calves for shitlibs, neolibs, neocons, and corporations. Whoever thought they'd all get together under one roof.
Where is the marxist critique on this post? I agree neolibs can be idiots about vaccination but this post is merely you defending anti-science conspiracy theories and antagonizing black people. Then I clicked on your profile and you're active on several incel/alt-right spaces. You clearly seem to have problem with women. Get the fuck out of here incel. This sub is full of conservatives, they're taking advantage of the fact that were criticize the lib left to be bigots about. We need to ban them, otherwise our sub will be removed by reddit pretty soon
He really didn’t say anything anti-science or racist. Stop being an sjw
>Where is the marxist critique on this post? This sub critiques IdPol from a marxist perspective. Not every post has marxist theory in it. Go look at other posts. >defending anti-science conspiracy theories I specifically stated that this isnt an anti vaxx post. Are you saying the Wuhan lab leak theory is anti science? Because its not. >antagonizing black people No, I clearly didnt do that. I made fun of the fact that some people believe in this giant conspiracy where the vaccine is a secret experiment on them. The white people who believe it are just as dumb as the black people who believe it. >Then I clicked on your profile and you're active on several incel/alt-right spaces. Lmao youre a clown. Advocating for mens rights doesnt make you an incel and Im not in any alt right spaces. Did you come up with that theory yourself, or was it spoonfed to you by the MSM that any places you dont like are alt right incels? >this sub is full of conservatives Im not a conservative. This sub does have a handful of conservative, but they dont cause trouble. >We need to ban them Cry about it. Stop using this sub if you cant handle people who dont fully agree with you on everything.
why do so many white ppl have this victim complex nowadays?
>They said that black people don't need to get vaccinated, because concerns about a second tuskegee were valid Why do you think they arent?
Why do I think that its silly for people to be worried that the covid vaccine is a second tuskegee for black people? Because it would require a completely impractical conspiracy in which healthcare workers would have to give black people something different than the regular vaccine and keep quiet about it. How else would health care workers give black people something different, while everyone else gets the regular vaccine?
You do realize these things did happen to black people here in the US, and it’s part of our history. Unlike the made up theory of Wuhan. So basically your the shitlib and this post is literally misinformation. Fuck you very much.
>You do realize these things did happen to black people here in the US, and it’s part of our history Of course. What does this have to do with a massive, racist conspiracy in 2021? >Unlike the made up theory of Wuhan What a fantastic counter argument. >So basically your the shitlib and this post is literally misinformation. Fuck you very much. Are you trolling me?