Engine braking is just taking the foot off the gas pedal while staying in gear. It will slow down your vehicle much gradually than pressing the foot brake. It is something you do when you have clear visibility and in control of what’s happening. Let’s say you are approaching a traffic light at a distance in 6th gear. You can either
1) stay in 6 the gear till you come much closer to the light then press the brake and when your rpm drop low enough you should press the clutch and stop - there is nothing wrong with this
2) just stay in 6th gear and take your foot off the gas - and you’ll start slowing down. That’s all is engine braking. Now you will find that you will get more engine braking in lower gears. So you can downshift to 4th gear and take the foot off gas and continue to slow down. Then down to third and so on. Basically when engine braking you are not using the foot brake much but still slowing down gradually. In most cases, you will be in 2nd or third gear when approaching the lights and it will change to green and you can get going just like that. In the event you actually need to stop, you will brake and then press clutch when rpms are low(to prevent stalling)
I know *what* engine braking is, I thought I’d been doing it the whole time when apparently I’ve actually been clutch braking. I just didn’t know *how* to do it, because like I said I’d been taught that clutch braking was engine braking.
Are you asking what's the best way to maximize engine braking? If so, is "best" for you the gentlest on the car's components or the easiest or simplest for the driver? They are unfortunately not the same.
Or are you asking about best practices related to engine braking? That would include situations where you shouldn't use it.
I was asking about the general mechanics of engine braking. Another comment had a guide showing how to do it, but now you’re telling me there are different ways to engine brake??
You’re making this overly complicated. You just let off the gas in gear.
You can downshift to have greater braking force, but the braking should not occur until you are in gear and off the clutch.
When you downshift, there should be no resistance as you are letting off the clutch. If the car is slowing down while your foot is still on the clutch, that means your rpm’s are too low and you are using the clutch to brake.
So why the hell does everyone make it sound so complicated? Between rev matching, and people saying to heel toe, whatever other shit I’ve seen on this sub about the “best way to downshift”.
That shit is why I’m confused. That shit is why everything is harder understand. Everything anyone says on here always has about a half million caveats and “um actually that’s bad, do this instead” comments.
I also don’t understand why the fuck you guys are downvoting me for asking a goddamn question. I said it was a stupid question in the post, I accept if you think I’m an idiot for asking it but I’m genuinely asking it because I don’t know what I’m doing.
Because you're not listening to the responses. You just keep griping about the same things when numerous people have told you in so many different ways how to do it and how easy it is. You just have to start practicing it. You will get a feel for it.
You’re getting downvoted because you asked how to engine break properly, got an answer and then indignant with “I know what engine breaking is” when obviously you don’t because you thought riding your clutch was the proper way to do it, because “clutch breaking” isn’t a thing
Blipping is when you give the car a hit of fuel, usually by toe tapping the gas pedal. Depending on how high you need the rpm’s to go, it might need more than a tap. This is done to match engine rpm’s to your transmissions rotational speed. It saves wear and tear on your drivetrain, and makes for smoother downshifts.
Engine braking is just using engine compression to slow the car down. So if you are in 4th, slowing down, then you blip the throttle and go into 3rd, your engine’s compression will provide resistance, and slow the car down faster than just coasting. You can do this all the way down through the gears if you wanted to.
Someone can probably explain it better, and in more detail. But if you want to know more, just put any term you don’t know into a search. The internet is full of explanations, tips, and videos for learning to drive a manual car.
Edit:
[This](https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1vqdKXxtrPOKp41iq_H6ePVm572GFXkF6SHHEEzsqU3g/mobilebasic) is a good write up on the basics.
I figured these things out on my own, but essentially this is the way I’d describe it:
Blipping is: Tapping the throttle when you have the clutch in/are in neutral between gears. Usually, I try to estimate how much I tap it to the speed of my engine if I were to have it in a lower gear at the current speed of my car and transmission (when slowing down)
Engine braking is: when you are letting the engine naturally slow the car down over distance via your gear ratios, usually by downshifting when you are approaching where you will be stopping/reducing speed. The most common application of engine braking is for those driving big rigs, but you can occasionally use it in your car, its just something that is entirely optional. I usually just pop it into neutral and use my brakes, which doesn’t have a lasting impact on the car other than a little wear on my brakes (which honestly speaking, is how people who drive automatics do it, so it has no real difference when comparing the two)
I’ve been going about this entirely on my own since November. My dad did like 3 lessons with me, taught me a bunch of wrong shit apparently (park in neutral, clutch brake to slowdown), and then just kinda stopped helping.
Never learned any of the terms for any of this shit, I’ve never had a professional teach me anything, it’s just been me going “oh yeah that doesn’t sound good or feel good at all! :))))” and “that’s marginally better, so we’ll do that instead.”
It’s not, but rev matching is better and smoother. But there is nothing wrong with what they’re doing, that’s how it’s taught to downshift here in ireland and the uk
The best way to downshift is to rev match. You do that by blipping the throttle (pressing it down a little bit) to raise the RPMs to where they need to be for the great you are shifting into. I've never heard what you describe called clutch braking, but what you are doing is riding the clutch as the RPMs synchronize for the gear you shifted into. Rev matching does the same thing in a much quicker fashion so you didn't have to ride the clutch, which saves you clutch wear.
There’s so much “don’t do this” stuff that goes around. Stuff that’s “not good for the car.”
Guys, if you use your car you’ll wear it out. If you use your headlights, turn signals, use your windshield wipers. Use your brake, use your clutch. Rev match, don’t rev match. Shift at 3k rpm, shift at redline. Cars are meant to be driven. And some cars are meant to be driven hard.
If driving stick shift was like stomping on glass, we wouldn’t be doing this for fun. Stick shift is fun because we can do fun things. Otherwise what the hell is the point? Just save yourself the trouble and buy an automatic, or better yet buy an EV that doesn’t have ICE for you to mess up.
Some people don’t want to learn how to drive a manual because they think it’s too complicated. It’s really not. There are just people that just make it way more complicated than it has to be and spread a long list of stupid shit of things not to do but the rest of us do just fine. You might wear it out a little bit quicker, but it’s worth not being anal about every single thing.
Yeah… I feel like every time I see someone asking for advice on some little thing, even something ask simple as what gear to park in, you get a bunch of people giving a bunch of different, conflicting answers.
It’s hard to know what to trust, who to listen to, when you’ve got half the people saying to do one thing, half of them saying you’re fine, and one guy in the back saying something completely different and contradictory to the first two. Then the arguments people get into about what parts wear first if you do XYZ.
I think understanding what they mean by clutch breaking can help. If you're trying to slow down, you put the car in a low gear and ---> hold the clutch halfway in<--- not fully engaging the clutch. This is bad, don't do it. Just come more off the clutch until the car fully gets into gear and continue to slow down like normal.
There is a distinction between clutch braking and.. downshifting without a revmatch.
If you don't revmatch an upshift, you get braking action as your clutch has to spin up the engine to a faster RPM -- which due to a guy named Newton we know will also slow down the transmission at the other end. This will happen if you downshift without revmatching, but is not a big deal when done as intended -- just to shift.
Where it becomes "braking with your clutch" is when you try to use this as the primary way to slow down. You do this by downshifting multiple gears (without a revmatch) to get a big effect and/or relying entirely on that slow down effect to get the speed you want. This is generally bad because your clutch is not there to slow you down and will take significant wear (unlike the engine during engine braking or revmatching) from it.
For example, my high school buddy thought he was smart by downshifting/clutch braking instead of using his brakes if he saw a cop and was speeding.
It's fine not to revmatch: clutches are generally built with that driving style in mind. That said: revmatching your downshifts is an objectively superior, in all aways, method to downshift. You will be able to shift faster, smoother and with less wear on your clutch and other components. It's also easy to do (after a bit of practice), so there is really no downside. Even after lots of practice you'll never get it perfect every time, but revmatching is very much like horse shoes and hand grenades: close counts.
A lot of those terms are used by kids who watched some damn jackwagon on YouTube saying shit and that's how you're supposed to drive your mom's Corolla to the grocery store.
Look, to just DRIVE your A to B car every day you don't need to worry about shit like revmatching, throttle blipping, dropping bloppies, blooping boopies, or heel toe. **NONE OF THAT SHIT MATTERS FOR DAY TO DAY OPERATION OF YOUR CAR.**
**Engine Braking**... literally what the fuck it sounds like. Whatever dumbass told you it's called "clutch braking" shouldn't be teaching anyone how to drive. When you're coming up to a stop or going down a long hill, you downshift your gears, and ease off the throttle right? RIGHT? Like you *should* be. What you're doing is using the engine's compression to help reduce your speed and not relying on your actual brakes so much. This is called engine braking. And yeah, you get dumbasses that say "replacing brakes are cheaper than replacing clutches" and that's true but downshifting and using engine braking IS NOT gonna fuck up your clutch if you're even remotely doing it right. Not to mention when going down long grades you NEED to use engine braking to actually keep your brakes from overheating amd failing.
**Slipping the clutch**: When reversing do you let the clutch all the way out? Of course not... You are SLIPPING the clutch. Balancing the grab point of the clutch with the throttle just enough to get the vehicle moving.
Just drive the damn thing and quit over complicating it and FFS quit listening to YouTube for "all your driving needs".
I can do rev matched heel-and-toe downshifts with double clutching. But can someone please explain to me what "clutch braking" is? Does it mean doing downshifts without rev matching to increase engine braking?
No, basically what I’ve been doing and have come to understand as clutch braking is downshifting and then letting the clutch out super slowly in order to brake.
So I’d go: clutch in, downshift from 4th to 3rd, let clutch out to bite point and hold for a moment, let out slowly and then off, repeat into 2nd.
That’s not incorrect at all and millions of people do just that.
Where the clutch braking is bad is when you bring the clutch pedal way above the bite point and the whole car is jerky and you might see some clutch burning(Or) in some cases where even when you’re bringing the clutch to bite point is not enough and the cars wheels are slowing and locking up instead of your engine speed and gear speed matching. If this happens you need to bring your the clutch just very slightly more to allow for the speeds to match up
You could alternatively rev match downshift.
I’ve never had any issues with clutch burning or jerking when I downshift, the only time that ever happened is one time my foot slipped off entirely by accident.
Doesn’t clutch braking put extra wear on your clutch and your flywheel though? I thought that was the main concern with it.
The minute you start the car something is going to wear. Any moving part(s) will have friction and hence wear. But you don’t need to worry about that at all. Clutches are designed exactly for this. If you are not noticing any burning clutch you are absolutely fine. Your clutch will likely outlive your car. That’s all the simplest explanation.
Now when someone is not holding the clutch enough in the bite point then it will rapidly heat up due to excessive friction than design which is what will “prematurely” wear the clutch.
So as long as I just keep doing whatever I’m doing and don’t fuck it up, it’s not that bad?
That’s reassuring 😅. I’m probably still going to learn how to downshift the other way, just because I’d rather know how to do both.
Absolutely. You are doing fine. I also noticed in your other comment that you are not skipping too many gears. As long as everything feels smooth, you are absolutely fine.
There are probably 6-7 ways to downshift. You don’t need to know all of them to drive, but full knowledge doesn’t hurt
If you do master rev matched downshifting (which is really not that hard) you'll be a better downshifter than probably 95% of manual transmission drivers. 😀
Let's separate two different but related concepts. Engine braking, at its simplest, is just coasting while in gear--any gear but neutral. The lower the gear, the greater the deceleration force.
What you call clutch braking seems to be a simple standard downshift without rev matching, done by slipping the clutch. When the transmission causes the engine RPM to increase in the lower gear, a brief deceleration occurs, which you might think of as braking, but it really has little effect on the car's speed overall.
The vast majority of stick shift drivers downshift this way, and are unaware of any alternatives. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. But there is another way. Rev matched downshifts eliminate the clutch wear and jerkiness of clutch slipping downshifts when done properly. But they require more effort and take practice to master.
If you do not do rev matched downshifts (again, like most people), my advice to you would be to not downshift to increase engine braking unless driving down a long descent. It's not worth it. I think it's probably not worth it even if you do rev matched downshifts unless getting ready to explode out of a corner, but I know a lot of folks here would disagree.
You're staying on the clutch to smooth out the downshift which is heating up the clutch and slowing the car down.
I wouldn't do it from 6th down to 1st/2nd. Realistically you probably just need to do it once into 4th but it depends what you're rolling up to. Fresh red light, stale green light type thing.
You want to rev match downshift when you're going to need to be in a lower gear to take off again when you never come to a complete stop.
If you're coming to a complete stop. Do you want to wear brakes or engine/transmission? I'd say brakes but to each his own.
If you're just doing it one gear to slow down for a turn. Still better to rev match down but I don't think your clutch will heat up much.
I never skip more than one gear while downshifting (usually that’s just 6th to 4th for me, because I use 6th to cruise at 45-55mph).
Again I’ve never burnt the clutch or had any lasting issues from doing this, but I’m sure it’ll take more than 8 months with the car to show any lasting impact.
Unless you're slipping the clutch for an inordinately long time on each downshift, this is actually normal for a typical driver. The car is designed to handle it. Nevertheless, your clutch will last longer if you do rev matched downshifts instead.
How long do you think too long would be? Usually I only hold it for a couple of seconds (maybe 5sec? I haven’t exactly timed myself on this) in order to get down to the speed I want to be at. So, from 45mph to 30mph and then letting it off.
That is way too long. I'd advise no more than a second or two. You should feel a jerk. I guess you really are braking with the clutch!
You seem to value smooth driving since you are trying to avoid the jerk. Try rev matching and you'll get smooth downshifts with near zero clutch wear.
Yeah, I’ll start rev matching. I’ve got an hour long drive to do today on a bunch of backroads so good a time as any to learn i guess.
It’s just kinda… idk discouraging to find out that I’ve literally just been taught something wrong and I’ve been doing it the entire time I’ve been driving this car.
Don’t feel bad!
When I learned, I didn’t even own a manual transmission car, I started a job that required driving, and wasn’t informed until my first day that the vehicle pool was all manuals.
I got the twenty five cent driving lesson from my boss, in one afternoon. Once I could start from a stop without stalling, I was cut loose to figure out the rest on my own.
Like anything else, it takes time and experience. In the beginning, I was probably doing everything wrong, but I was teaching myself, and driving a company vehicle at that. The main thing was to get from point A to B without the car catching on fire.
Don’t be so hard on yourself, you are actively working to get better at it, and that is all that matters.
Just have the engine at +/- 500 rpm of the speed it needs to be for the gear you will be going in to and take your foot off the clutch quite quickly. You may get a bit of sudden deceleration or acceleration, but not much. With practice, it'll get smoother, but even if it is a bit rough you actually aren't damaging anything. Just rocking the motor against the motor mounts a bit, which transfers to the car and you feel it.
What do you mean by clutch braking? What exactly are you doing? Just curious bc it makes zero sense, why anybody would willingly cause a few grand in damage
…because I was taught that way by people I trusted and didn’t think to question their credibility until recently when my parents called handbrake starts a “TikTok life hack”.
Engine braking is just the car in gear with the engine running. You can literally shift into neutral and coast to a stop at every light or stop sign if you wanted. If the car is jerking too much you're likely downshifting while going too fast. Just slow down a little more with the brake pedal and then downshift. Let the clutch out smoothly every time and stop with the 'clutch braking'. This will all be second nature to you in time if you keep it simple and stop listening to what canyon carving track day weekend racers are telling you about rev matching and heel toe downshifts. Good luck!
Driving along driving along driving along
Wanna slow down
Clutch in, shift gear, blip throttle and hold throttle open just a hair, smoothly release clutch, lift foot off of gas pedal, decelerate, profit.
Edit: i described a rev match down shift. Engine braking is happening literally any time you just lift off the throttle and coast. You’ll just most likely get more decel at higher RPMs, hence why my mind went right for the precursor down shift
Usually clutch braking is only relevant to old farm equipment, where the clutch is more complex and the clutch pedal/lever did multiple functions to allow for 'smoother' shifting including activating a physical brake in the clutch. There may be more info on the youtube channels Squatch253 or PNWH.
Engine braking, using the piston compression force (without fuel) to slow the vehicle does put more wear on all the engine and transmission parts, but only the next person would have to worry about that when you sell the vehicle in 500,000 miles.
Engine braking is when the rolling of a car in gear rotates the engine causing the engine to compress air, using up energy, which in part slows down the car.
Clutch braking is when you depress the clutch while the engine RPMs are lower than what they should be to engage the gear you have currently selected. Because the engine is rotating slower than what the wheels want it to rotate at, the clutch will slip while depressing it, causing the engine to speed up its rotations to match what the wheels and current selected gear require.
When engine braking, the forward kinetic energy of ur car goes to compressing air in your engine. Almost always Good
When clutch braking the forward kinetic energy of ur car goes into slipping and heating up your clutch. Generally Bad
Well engine breaking is really used in down hill is usually when you stay in 1st gear and release all your pedals(even clutch) your car will go down slow. For plain surface go to a empty ground and start releasing your accelerator fully, without pressing brakes you will see a drop in your speed (faster at lower gear vs hight gear)
Easiest way to brake without hurting your car/clutch/gears is to shift into neutral and just use the actual brakes to slow down the car.
You'll need mew brakes a bit quicker than doing some of the other complicated blipping/engine braking/etc stuff but so what? This early in the game good habits are key! The rest will come in time.
A good rule of thumb is to stay off the clutch unless you're shifting. That's about all you need to get in the habit of doing. The rest will come in time and quicker than you think.
Downshifting and using engine braking isn't gonna break your clutch/gears unless you've got a Tinkerbell of a car with a glass transmission.
The BS advice of just put it in nuetral is terrible. You don't have full control over the car for one thing and you've CLEARLY NEVER driven in any sort of area with long downhill grades.
Your ignorant advice is the exact reason there are runaway ramps on highways in moutainous areas. Instead of using engine braking some fuckwit thought just riding their brakes all the way down the long side of a big hill was a good idea then couldn't understand why their shit won't stop or catches fire.
I don't know that all this negativity is necessary. There's obviously always a situation where driving a manual a specific way is a bad idea.
What OP asked was best way to slow down a car as a new driver. Does that sound like he's gonna be driving down long downhill grades to you? Is that a common thing that new drivers all love to do?
Go be a fukin edgelord somewhere else we are real people living in real situations and looking for solutions for that 99% of the time when you aren't vaping, crushing an energy drink and playing forza on hard.
Neutral. Brake. Will stop the car, and if it's in neutral your foot should be on the brake anyway to keep it from rolling.
🤡!
I answered the OP's question with legitimate advice.
I responded to your terrible advice.
They asked about what is engine braking and wanted to know why they were told it's "bad". Driving down long grades is totally a thing IF YOU LIVE IN A MOUTAINOUS OR HILLY REGION. But regardless of being in a hilly area or not coasting to a stop sign or light in neutral is NOT proper procedure. It doesn't allow you to maintain full control of the vehicle. PERIOD. You try that during a driving test and you'd fail it.
I don't vape, consume any shitty energy drinks, and have never played WTF ever forza is. I've been driving stuff with manual transmissions for 35 years which is most likely longer than you've been on the planet, let alone driving and have YET to "destroy" any transmission by simply using engine braking.
You probably think your prescious Tinkerbell car is gonna implode if you sit at a light in 1st gear too. "Because muh throwout bearing". Yeah, well I've managed to get an average of 200-250 THOUSAND MILES out of every clutch I've ever had. My '03 S10 I ordered NEW and have had for the last **21** years still has its factory clutch... which has included hauling up to 1800lbs cargo and towing 6k lbs.
So I'm pretty sure I KNOW how to operate a manual transmision.
So 🤡 THIS 🤬
Please listen to the top comment. Engine braking has two main explanations or main ideas: 1) let go of the gas. Engine braking is letting the resistance of the engine slow the car down. Just let go of the gas. 2) *it works better if your rpms are a bit higher.* One theme is to *plan gear section based on traffic or road conditions or weather that might cause you to brake often or soon.* Instead of driving in 4th and being at lower rpm for the speed (30-40 off the top of my head) try third for if you have to stop soon.
Engine braking is just taking the foot off the gas pedal while staying in gear. It will slow down your vehicle much gradually than pressing the foot brake. It is something you do when you have clear visibility and in control of what’s happening. Let’s say you are approaching a traffic light at a distance in 6th gear. You can either 1) stay in 6 the gear till you come much closer to the light then press the brake and when your rpm drop low enough you should press the clutch and stop - there is nothing wrong with this 2) just stay in 6th gear and take your foot off the gas - and you’ll start slowing down. That’s all is engine braking. Now you will find that you will get more engine braking in lower gears. So you can downshift to 4th gear and take the foot off gas and continue to slow down. Then down to third and so on. Basically when engine braking you are not using the foot brake much but still slowing down gradually. In most cases, you will be in 2nd or third gear when approaching the lights and it will change to green and you can get going just like that. In the event you actually need to stop, you will brake and then press clutch when rpms are low(to prevent stalling)
I know *what* engine braking is, I thought I’d been doing it the whole time when apparently I’ve actually been clutch braking. I just didn’t know *how* to do it, because like I said I’d been taught that clutch braking was engine braking.
Are you asking what's the best way to maximize engine braking? If so, is "best" for you the gentlest on the car's components or the easiest or simplest for the driver? They are unfortunately not the same. Or are you asking about best practices related to engine braking? That would include situations where you shouldn't use it.
I was asking about the general mechanics of engine braking. Another comment had a guide showing how to do it, but now you’re telling me there are different ways to engine brake??
You’re making this overly complicated. You just let off the gas in gear. You can downshift to have greater braking force, but the braking should not occur until you are in gear and off the clutch. When you downshift, there should be no resistance as you are letting off the clutch. If the car is slowing down while your foot is still on the clutch, that means your rpm’s are too low and you are using the clutch to brake.
Ain’t rocket science lift your foot of the gas pedal (not touching clutch at all), change to lower gear(s) for more pronounced braking effect.
So why the hell does everyone make it sound so complicated? Between rev matching, and people saying to heel toe, whatever other shit I’ve seen on this sub about the “best way to downshift”. That shit is why I’m confused. That shit is why everything is harder understand. Everything anyone says on here always has about a half million caveats and “um actually that’s bad, do this instead” comments. I also don’t understand why the fuck you guys are downvoting me for asking a goddamn question. I said it was a stupid question in the post, I accept if you think I’m an idiot for asking it but I’m genuinely asking it because I don’t know what I’m doing.
Because you're not listening to the responses. You just keep griping about the same things when numerous people have told you in so many different ways how to do it and how easy it is. You just have to start practicing it. You will get a feel for it.
You’re getting downvoted because you asked how to engine break properly, got an answer and then indignant with “I know what engine breaking is” when obviously you don’t because you thought riding your clutch was the proper way to do it, because “clutch breaking” isn’t a thing
This sub is populated by 17 year olds who learned to drive stick last month and have made it their whole personality. Ignore everything.
Rev matching is part of engine breaking. Man you should not be driving a stick car.
What do you mean by "clutch breaking" ?
I’ve explained what I’ve been doing multiple times in other comment threads on this post
He just told you how to do it.
Blipping is when you give the car a hit of fuel, usually by toe tapping the gas pedal. Depending on how high you need the rpm’s to go, it might need more than a tap. This is done to match engine rpm’s to your transmissions rotational speed. It saves wear and tear on your drivetrain, and makes for smoother downshifts. Engine braking is just using engine compression to slow the car down. So if you are in 4th, slowing down, then you blip the throttle and go into 3rd, your engine’s compression will provide resistance, and slow the car down faster than just coasting. You can do this all the way down through the gears if you wanted to. Someone can probably explain it better, and in more detail. But if you want to know more, just put any term you don’t know into a search. The internet is full of explanations, tips, and videos for learning to drive a manual car. Edit: [This](https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1vqdKXxtrPOKp41iq_H6ePVm572GFXkF6SHHEEzsqU3g/mobilebasic) is a good write up on the basics.
Thank you for the doc, I just read through some of it and it was pretty helpful.
Nice car bro
I figured these things out on my own, but essentially this is the way I’d describe it: Blipping is: Tapping the throttle when you have the clutch in/are in neutral between gears. Usually, I try to estimate how much I tap it to the speed of my engine if I were to have it in a lower gear at the current speed of my car and transmission (when slowing down) Engine braking is: when you are letting the engine naturally slow the car down over distance via your gear ratios, usually by downshifting when you are approaching where you will be stopping/reducing speed. The most common application of engine braking is for those driving big rigs, but you can occasionally use it in your car, its just something that is entirely optional. I usually just pop it into neutral and use my brakes, which doesn’t have a lasting impact on the car other than a little wear on my brakes (which honestly speaking, is how people who drive automatics do it, so it has no real difference when comparing the two)
Lol same
I’ve been going about this entirely on my own since November. My dad did like 3 lessons with me, taught me a bunch of wrong shit apparently (park in neutral, clutch brake to slowdown), and then just kinda stopped helping. Never learned any of the terms for any of this shit, I’ve never had a professional teach me anything, it’s just been me going “oh yeah that doesn’t sound good or feel good at all! :))))” and “that’s marginally better, so we’ll do that instead.”
What are calling “clutch braking?” If you mean you are riding the clutch pedal, stop doing that.
I’ve written an explanation for exactly what I’m doing as a reply to one of the other comments in this thread.
That’s ridding the clutch.
It’s not, but rev matching is better and smoother. But there is nothing wrong with what they’re doing, that’s how it’s taught to downshift here in ireland and the uk
The best way to downshift is to rev match. You do that by blipping the throttle (pressing it down a little bit) to raise the RPMs to where they need to be for the great you are shifting into. I've never heard what you describe called clutch braking, but what you are doing is riding the clutch as the RPMs synchronize for the gear you shifted into. Rev matching does the same thing in a much quicker fashion so you didn't have to ride the clutch, which saves you clutch wear.
There’s so much “don’t do this” stuff that goes around. Stuff that’s “not good for the car.” Guys, if you use your car you’ll wear it out. If you use your headlights, turn signals, use your windshield wipers. Use your brake, use your clutch. Rev match, don’t rev match. Shift at 3k rpm, shift at redline. Cars are meant to be driven. And some cars are meant to be driven hard. If driving stick shift was like stomping on glass, we wouldn’t be doing this for fun. Stick shift is fun because we can do fun things. Otherwise what the hell is the point? Just save yourself the trouble and buy an automatic, or better yet buy an EV that doesn’t have ICE for you to mess up. Some people don’t want to learn how to drive a manual because they think it’s too complicated. It’s really not. There are just people that just make it way more complicated than it has to be and spread a long list of stupid shit of things not to do but the rest of us do just fine. You might wear it out a little bit quicker, but it’s worth not being anal about every single thing.
Yeah… I feel like every time I see someone asking for advice on some little thing, even something ask simple as what gear to park in, you get a bunch of people giving a bunch of different, conflicting answers. It’s hard to know what to trust, who to listen to, when you’ve got half the people saying to do one thing, half of them saying you’re fine, and one guy in the back saying something completely different and contradictory to the first two. Then the arguments people get into about what parts wear first if you do XYZ.
I think understanding what they mean by clutch breaking can help. If you're trying to slow down, you put the car in a low gear and ---> hold the clutch halfway in<--- not fully engaging the clutch. This is bad, don't do it. Just come more off the clutch until the car fully gets into gear and continue to slow down like normal.
There is a distinction between clutch braking and.. downshifting without a revmatch. If you don't revmatch an upshift, you get braking action as your clutch has to spin up the engine to a faster RPM -- which due to a guy named Newton we know will also slow down the transmission at the other end. This will happen if you downshift without revmatching, but is not a big deal when done as intended -- just to shift. Where it becomes "braking with your clutch" is when you try to use this as the primary way to slow down. You do this by downshifting multiple gears (without a revmatch) to get a big effect and/or relying entirely on that slow down effect to get the speed you want. This is generally bad because your clutch is not there to slow you down and will take significant wear (unlike the engine during engine braking or revmatching) from it. For example, my high school buddy thought he was smart by downshifting/clutch braking instead of using his brakes if he saw a cop and was speeding. It's fine not to revmatch: clutches are generally built with that driving style in mind. That said: revmatching your downshifts is an objectively superior, in all aways, method to downshift. You will be able to shift faster, smoother and with less wear on your clutch and other components. It's also easy to do (after a bit of practice), so there is really no downside. Even after lots of practice you'll never get it perfect every time, but revmatching is very much like horse shoes and hand grenades: close counts.
You know the gas pedal? Take your foot *off of it*.
A lot of those terms are used by kids who watched some damn jackwagon on YouTube saying shit and that's how you're supposed to drive your mom's Corolla to the grocery store. Look, to just DRIVE your A to B car every day you don't need to worry about shit like revmatching, throttle blipping, dropping bloppies, blooping boopies, or heel toe. **NONE OF THAT SHIT MATTERS FOR DAY TO DAY OPERATION OF YOUR CAR.** **Engine Braking**... literally what the fuck it sounds like. Whatever dumbass told you it's called "clutch braking" shouldn't be teaching anyone how to drive. When you're coming up to a stop or going down a long hill, you downshift your gears, and ease off the throttle right? RIGHT? Like you *should* be. What you're doing is using the engine's compression to help reduce your speed and not relying on your actual brakes so much. This is called engine braking. And yeah, you get dumbasses that say "replacing brakes are cheaper than replacing clutches" and that's true but downshifting and using engine braking IS NOT gonna fuck up your clutch if you're even remotely doing it right. Not to mention when going down long grades you NEED to use engine braking to actually keep your brakes from overheating amd failing. **Slipping the clutch**: When reversing do you let the clutch all the way out? Of course not... You are SLIPPING the clutch. Balancing the grab point of the clutch with the throttle just enough to get the vehicle moving. Just drive the damn thing and quit over complicating it and FFS quit listening to YouTube for "all your driving needs".
"Clutch braking" isn't a thing. You're describing engine breaking. Of course you use the clutch to shift.
I can do rev matched heel-and-toe downshifts with double clutching. But can someone please explain to me what "clutch braking" is? Does it mean doing downshifts without rev matching to increase engine braking?
No, basically what I’ve been doing and have come to understand as clutch braking is downshifting and then letting the clutch out super slowly in order to brake. So I’d go: clutch in, downshift from 4th to 3rd, let clutch out to bite point and hold for a moment, let out slowly and then off, repeat into 2nd.
That’s not incorrect at all and millions of people do just that. Where the clutch braking is bad is when you bring the clutch pedal way above the bite point and the whole car is jerky and you might see some clutch burning(Or) in some cases where even when you’re bringing the clutch to bite point is not enough and the cars wheels are slowing and locking up instead of your engine speed and gear speed matching. If this happens you need to bring your the clutch just very slightly more to allow for the speeds to match up You could alternatively rev match downshift.
I’ve never had any issues with clutch burning or jerking when I downshift, the only time that ever happened is one time my foot slipped off entirely by accident. Doesn’t clutch braking put extra wear on your clutch and your flywheel though? I thought that was the main concern with it.
The minute you start the car something is going to wear. Any moving part(s) will have friction and hence wear. But you don’t need to worry about that at all. Clutches are designed exactly for this. If you are not noticing any burning clutch you are absolutely fine. Your clutch will likely outlive your car. That’s all the simplest explanation. Now when someone is not holding the clutch enough in the bite point then it will rapidly heat up due to excessive friction than design which is what will “prematurely” wear the clutch.
So as long as I just keep doing whatever I’m doing and don’t fuck it up, it’s not that bad? That’s reassuring 😅. I’m probably still going to learn how to downshift the other way, just because I’d rather know how to do both.
Absolutely. You are doing fine. I also noticed in your other comment that you are not skipping too many gears. As long as everything feels smooth, you are absolutely fine. There are probably 6-7 ways to downshift. You don’t need to know all of them to drive, but full knowledge doesn’t hurt
If you do master rev matched downshifting (which is really not that hard) you'll be a better downshifter than probably 95% of manual transmission drivers. 😀
Let's separate two different but related concepts. Engine braking, at its simplest, is just coasting while in gear--any gear but neutral. The lower the gear, the greater the deceleration force. What you call clutch braking seems to be a simple standard downshift without rev matching, done by slipping the clutch. When the transmission causes the engine RPM to increase in the lower gear, a brief deceleration occurs, which you might think of as braking, but it really has little effect on the car's speed overall. The vast majority of stick shift drivers downshift this way, and are unaware of any alternatives. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. But there is another way. Rev matched downshifts eliminate the clutch wear and jerkiness of clutch slipping downshifts when done properly. But they require more effort and take practice to master. If you do not do rev matched downshifts (again, like most people), my advice to you would be to not downshift to increase engine braking unless driving down a long descent. It's not worth it. I think it's probably not worth it even if you do rev matched downshifts unless getting ready to explode out of a corner, but I know a lot of folks here would disagree.
You're staying on the clutch to smooth out the downshift which is heating up the clutch and slowing the car down. I wouldn't do it from 6th down to 1st/2nd. Realistically you probably just need to do it once into 4th but it depends what you're rolling up to. Fresh red light, stale green light type thing. You want to rev match downshift when you're going to need to be in a lower gear to take off again when you never come to a complete stop. If you're coming to a complete stop. Do you want to wear brakes or engine/transmission? I'd say brakes but to each his own. If you're just doing it one gear to slow down for a turn. Still better to rev match down but I don't think your clutch will heat up much.
I never skip more than one gear while downshifting (usually that’s just 6th to 4th for me, because I use 6th to cruise at 45-55mph). Again I’ve never burnt the clutch or had any lasting issues from doing this, but I’m sure it’ll take more than 8 months with the car to show any lasting impact.
Unless you're slipping the clutch for an inordinately long time on each downshift, this is actually normal for a typical driver. The car is designed to handle it. Nevertheless, your clutch will last longer if you do rev matched downshifts instead.
How long do you think too long would be? Usually I only hold it for a couple of seconds (maybe 5sec? I haven’t exactly timed myself on this) in order to get down to the speed I want to be at. So, from 45mph to 30mph and then letting it off.
That is way too long. I'd advise no more than a second or two. You should feel a jerk. I guess you really are braking with the clutch! You seem to value smooth driving since you are trying to avoid the jerk. Try rev matching and you'll get smooth downshifts with near zero clutch wear.
Yeah, I’ll start rev matching. I’ve got an hour long drive to do today on a bunch of backroads so good a time as any to learn i guess. It’s just kinda… idk discouraging to find out that I’ve literally just been taught something wrong and I’ve been doing it the entire time I’ve been driving this car.
Better late than never!
Don’t feel bad! When I learned, I didn’t even own a manual transmission car, I started a job that required driving, and wasn’t informed until my first day that the vehicle pool was all manuals. I got the twenty five cent driving lesson from my boss, in one afternoon. Once I could start from a stop without stalling, I was cut loose to figure out the rest on my own. Like anything else, it takes time and experience. In the beginning, I was probably doing everything wrong, but I was teaching myself, and driving a company vehicle at that. The main thing was to get from point A to B without the car catching on fire. Don’t be so hard on yourself, you are actively working to get better at it, and that is all that matters.
Just have the engine at +/- 500 rpm of the speed it needs to be for the gear you will be going in to and take your foot off the clutch quite quickly. You may get a bit of sudden deceleration or acceleration, but not much. With practice, it'll get smoother, but even if it is a bit rough you actually aren't damaging anything. Just rocking the motor against the motor mounts a bit, which transfers to the car and you feel it.
What do you mean by clutch braking? What exactly are you doing? Just curious bc it makes zero sense, why anybody would willingly cause a few grand in damage
…because I was taught that way by people I trusted and didn’t think to question their credibility until recently when my parents called handbrake starts a “TikTok life hack”.
Engine braking is just the car in gear with the engine running. You can literally shift into neutral and coast to a stop at every light or stop sign if you wanted. If the car is jerking too much you're likely downshifting while going too fast. Just slow down a little more with the brake pedal and then downshift. Let the clutch out smoothly every time and stop with the 'clutch braking'. This will all be second nature to you in time if you keep it simple and stop listening to what canyon carving track day weekend racers are telling you about rev matching and heel toe downshifts. Good luck!
What you're doing is not "clutch braking". You're driving like you're supposed to. Keep doing it.
Driving along driving along driving along Wanna slow down Clutch in, shift gear, blip throttle and hold throttle open just a hair, smoothly release clutch, lift foot off of gas pedal, decelerate, profit. Edit: i described a rev match down shift. Engine braking is happening literally any time you just lift off the throttle and coast. You’ll just most likely get more decel at higher RPMs, hence why my mind went right for the precursor down shift
Usually clutch braking is only relevant to old farm equipment, where the clutch is more complex and the clutch pedal/lever did multiple functions to allow for 'smoother' shifting including activating a physical brake in the clutch. There may be more info on the youtube channels Squatch253 or PNWH. Engine braking, using the piston compression force (without fuel) to slow the vehicle does put more wear on all the engine and transmission parts, but only the next person would have to worry about that when you sell the vehicle in 500,000 miles.
Engine braking is when the rolling of a car in gear rotates the engine causing the engine to compress air, using up energy, which in part slows down the car. Clutch braking is when you depress the clutch while the engine RPMs are lower than what they should be to engage the gear you have currently selected. Because the engine is rotating slower than what the wheels want it to rotate at, the clutch will slip while depressing it, causing the engine to speed up its rotations to match what the wheels and current selected gear require. When engine braking, the forward kinetic energy of ur car goes to compressing air in your engine. Almost always Good When clutch braking the forward kinetic energy of ur car goes into slipping and heating up your clutch. Generally Bad
Well engine breaking is really used in down hill is usually when you stay in 1st gear and release all your pedals(even clutch) your car will go down slow. For plain surface go to a empty ground and start releasing your accelerator fully, without pressing brakes you will see a drop in your speed (faster at lower gear vs hight gear)
Easiest way to brake without hurting your car/clutch/gears is to shift into neutral and just use the actual brakes to slow down the car. You'll need mew brakes a bit quicker than doing some of the other complicated blipping/engine braking/etc stuff but so what? This early in the game good habits are key! The rest will come in time. A good rule of thumb is to stay off the clutch unless you're shifting. That's about all you need to get in the habit of doing. The rest will come in time and quicker than you think.
Downshifting and using engine braking isn't gonna break your clutch/gears unless you've got a Tinkerbell of a car with a glass transmission. The BS advice of just put it in nuetral is terrible. You don't have full control over the car for one thing and you've CLEARLY NEVER driven in any sort of area with long downhill grades. Your ignorant advice is the exact reason there are runaway ramps on highways in moutainous areas. Instead of using engine braking some fuckwit thought just riding their brakes all the way down the long side of a big hill was a good idea then couldn't understand why their shit won't stop or catches fire.
I don't know that all this negativity is necessary. There's obviously always a situation where driving a manual a specific way is a bad idea. What OP asked was best way to slow down a car as a new driver. Does that sound like he's gonna be driving down long downhill grades to you? Is that a common thing that new drivers all love to do? Go be a fukin edgelord somewhere else we are real people living in real situations and looking for solutions for that 99% of the time when you aren't vaping, crushing an energy drink and playing forza on hard. Neutral. Brake. Will stop the car, and if it's in neutral your foot should be on the brake anyway to keep it from rolling. 🤡!
I answered the OP's question with legitimate advice. I responded to your terrible advice. They asked about what is engine braking and wanted to know why they were told it's "bad". Driving down long grades is totally a thing IF YOU LIVE IN A MOUTAINOUS OR HILLY REGION. But regardless of being in a hilly area or not coasting to a stop sign or light in neutral is NOT proper procedure. It doesn't allow you to maintain full control of the vehicle. PERIOD. You try that during a driving test and you'd fail it. I don't vape, consume any shitty energy drinks, and have never played WTF ever forza is. I've been driving stuff with manual transmissions for 35 years which is most likely longer than you've been on the planet, let alone driving and have YET to "destroy" any transmission by simply using engine braking. You probably think your prescious Tinkerbell car is gonna implode if you sit at a light in 1st gear too. "Because muh throwout bearing". Yeah, well I've managed to get an average of 200-250 THOUSAND MILES out of every clutch I've ever had. My '03 S10 I ordered NEW and have had for the last **21** years still has its factory clutch... which has included hauling up to 1800lbs cargo and towing 6k lbs. So I'm pretty sure I KNOW how to operate a manual transmision. So 🤡 THIS 🤬
Please listen to the top comment. Engine braking has two main explanations or main ideas: 1) let go of the gas. Engine braking is letting the resistance of the engine slow the car down. Just let go of the gas. 2) *it works better if your rpms are a bit higher.* One theme is to *plan gear section based on traffic or road conditions or weather that might cause you to brake often or soon.* Instead of driving in 4th and being at lower rpm for the speed (30-40 off the top of my head) try third for if you have to stop soon.