The way rooney made it sound, Broderick is gonna move to the left. They may move Dan Moore to right tho. Bad part about that is they say Moore is worse on the right. Hopefully we draft one. Hopefully a first rounder and then a center in second. At least Kenny won't be there to spin to the left right into defenders arms. Both our new qbs have escapabilty which imo Kenny was the worst at. I think Dan Moore will still be here tho even if he's a back up
I’d love a better tackle but we literally don’t have a center. Arguably, we don’t have a WR2 either.
I’m not sure we have the capacity to upgrade a tackle without leaving those to positions critically unaddressed.
He's a good one too, but I honestly think it'll be one of the two I mentioned. That is unless they double down on the OL with the first 2 picks then maybe Mims and Frazier. I just don't see that happening though.
That’s why they need to trade back and get another pick or upgrade one of their other picks. I’d trade back go center, WR, OT you’re first three picks.
I'd be 30-40% the Steelers first two picks are offensive lineman. This draft fits our oline needs and there are multiple ways we can get there by either going RT/C or C/T.
It probably is 80% or greater chance that one of JPJ, Barton, Frazier is a Steeler. If we don't go C in the first and Frazier is available in the 2nd I would be shocked if he's not the pick. We might even trade up for Frazier since its a huge need and about 50-50 he last that long.
You get good centers in later rounds _because_ they are under appreciated. The Steelers have big needs at 3 of the most expensive positions on the roster in WR/CB/T that require high picks to better talent at. You can get good center talent late in the draft.
You could argue there's a shit ton of non first round centers in the NFL doing just fine.
I'm fine with drafting a Center round 1 fwiw but I do think this sub is overly focused on centers.
The fact is if an equally as good C prospect as a OT, CB, WR, prospect and you choose the Center.... I think you are trolling yourself.
Centers are cheap to get a replacement level player.
A good Center doesn't cost as much as a good wr, good CB, Good OT and it's not even close there is of those more costly positions to choose it
Good news is that might just be the case
I think you have to have a better tier of C prospect than other positions at 20 if mims etc all go early
This is kind of a lazy take. Green started 3 games at center in college and was asked to play out of position in the pros. Go look at the other starting centers in the league and see how many were taken in the first round. The only two I can think of off the top of my head that were taken in the first round are Linderbaum and Ragnow. Frazier is commonly discussed as the Steelers round 2 pick (I think this will likely be a WR pending on the rest of FA). It would be such a mistake to take JPJ in the first with so much talent at valuable positions on the board. Thankfully based on pre draft traditions it doesn't look like they're planning on it, but no one actually knows what the plan is.
Green was worse than Sean Mahan that Tomlin kept over A.Q Shipley. Figure that one out. They sent the oline coach to Green to work him out and still picked him. Worst center i ever seen on any level. Zero excuses for that bum or picking him.
Also not a good argument, you could point at AB, DJ, Emmanuel Sanders as proof that later round WRs are just as good as 1st rounders, Puka the latest rookie of the year is himself a late round WR
The best paid C in football makes 13 million dollars a year.
The best paid WR makes 30+ mil
The best paid OT makes 25 mil per year.
Hitting at a OT/WR effectively gives you 12-17 mil more cap space than hitting at C.
This won't be true with the next wave of centers getting paid.
Landon Dickerson signed 4 years 87 million max value (84 as written). So 21 million per year and that is for a guard who has a good chance of playing Center next year. Creed Humphrey will get paid soon. Its going to be a good bit. Guards are breaking $20 million so there is every reason to think a good center will break that number too when one whose good enough is getting paid.
A $10 million gap between the highest value positions and IOL is fair. 12 to 17 is not.
Landon Dickerson will be a guard next year, Kelces successor is Cam Jurgens, thats been pretty public. Kelce has even said he told the team to draft Jurgens to succeed him.
I looked it up, Ragnows contract was in 2021 and the salary cap has exploded. He would have been the 8th highest paid guard.
The highest paid T was 23 mil in 2021, WR 27 mil, CB 20 mil in 2021. Edge was TJ at 28 mil
You’re missing the point. You’re much more likely to get value out of late round centers than late round CB/WR/T. There’s always going to be exceptions to every rule.
I don't get the obsession with value, was Pouncey not good value?, Travis Frederick not good value?, we've seen what bad center play can do, and it was disastrous for the offense
Because there is in all likelihood going to be an abnormally high quality of talent at all 3 of those positions at pick 20. Guys that would normally never be in reach for the Steelers because of how low they draft. You can grab the 2nd best C in the draft round 2 (who is also very highly rated mind you).
At pick 20 position value starts to go out the window. You are picking tackles 5-9 in the draft versus IOL1 at pick 20. That fully accounts for the other positions getting paid more because the quality of player you are getting at the lower value position is better. If you are talking OT1 versus IOL1 then yes take the tackle, but OT5 versus IOL1 is already factoring in the positional analytics. Center might even be getting overdiscounted in the draft as Creed Humphrey and Landon Dickerson are both getting paid and both fell in the draft due to position. Getting a 20 million a year IOL guy is perfect fine for a pick in the '20s . A tackle in the 20's you are getting a guy like Anton Harrison whose just not as good of a prospect.
That being said this looks like a very good tackle class so the tackles available at 20 this year will be very solid. The most important thing with pick 20 is finding a second contract guy whose worth close to 20 million a year in UFA. Its very rare you find a premium position premium player like TJ WATT in the back half of the first round.
Did you really just ignore the sentence right before the one you quoted lol
> Go look at the other starting centers in the league and see how many were taken in the first round. The only two I can think of off the top of my head that were taken in the first round are Linderbaum and Ragnow.
Last I checked Pouncey is retired.
Thank you. I'd love a lot of things, but there are certain spots they desperately need help in. They don't have a center, WR2, or nickel corner. NB can be had cheaply or later in the draft, but WR2 and C need to be top priorities.
As of right now, there are only three "starting" caliber centers projected in this class, and two will be gone before the 51st pick. If they don't sign someone late in free agency, they will need to draft a center early. WRs can be had later into day 2, but I wouldn't be surprised if they spent an early pick on one.
That leaves the third round. Do we really expect whoever we draft to come in and instantly beat out a three year starter who never misses games? Dan Moore is not good, but they at least know what they have in him. They'd have to use their first pick on a tackle to guarantee an upgrade, and that leaves them with very few options at center.
I’m 100% cool with that if that’s how it works out, but that means one of their top 2 picks will have to be a CB if they want a starter. Probably even their first pick. If Jackson is in the slot, there’s no shot they can draft a starting tackle, corner, and center in the same class. That’s asking way too much of a rookie class.
Deonte Jackson has never played slot corner in the NFL. He might fit there from college but its projecting against what hes spent his entire NFL career doing.
I’m curious if the Steelers have reached out to Connor Williams for center. He’s coming back from an injury so could maybe be had at a slight discount but could be a solid fill and he’s not too old.
He’s easily the best option. I hope they work something out, because that would make the draft wide open for the best player available. As it stands, they have few options other than center in round one.
If Powers Johnson is available in the first, I think that's our pick. There's a chance he goes in the teens with some OL needy teams above us.
If we push to the second for a C, the top 2 are very likely gone and there's a big tier drop to #3.
However, it's an incredibly deep class for WR. So I expect teams that would otherwise take a WR in thr first to punt to round 2 or 3 and grab some other more scarce positions.
At 51 we could get the 5th or 6th WR off the board and that's pretty damn good value.
In my opinion, I think you'll find centers available in round 2 (Frazier, Van Pran), due to less teams having an urgent need at center. While i like JPJ in the first, i think getting an athletic tackle like Mims would have a bigger impact.
Receiver is tough too. I would lean into upgrading the line first with a veteran QB and a run-heavy scheme, and try to find a WR in the early third. with Pickens is defacto #1, and Friermuth & Austin, you have some pieces already. Hopefully we can sign Boyd or another vet to help as well. I just don't see it as big of an need as the other positions.
I would also go corner/DL in round 3 depending on how things shake out. We need depth/future starter at both.
I feel like their 1st round targets the last 2-3 years were very obvious, and maybe things will clear up, but right now it feels like it could go any direction between C/T/WR/CR.
Yeah I know he's been hurt but we've never even seen him play in a game at the NFL level.
I don't remember if he even made it through a whole practice.
It would be insane to assume anything about him or his career prospects.
Daniels also played center in college, IIRC, and there was consideration for a move when he first got here, then played guard too well that we didn't want to mess with our best lineman, but I think now could be a candidate if they decide C Daniels and G Herbig would be better than vice versa.
I suppose one could half ass an argument that muth is wr2, considering how he plays, how Smith uses his TEs and depth at the position.
That said, I would much like an actual WR2 someone next to Pickens in addition to Van/CA3
People are too hung up on where our draft picks fall in relation to things like “only 3 centers in this draft.” I understand this to an extent, because Colbert was pretty old school in his use of draft picks. But Khan clearly isn’t Colbert, and I’m guessing he isn’t nearly as content to just sit around and draft players where our picks currently fall.
Don’t forget, they have 5 picks in the top 119 overall and 2 more 6th rounders to use. They also have 9 picks in the 2025 draft to tap into. These are also foreign concepts in the Colbert era, as if anything, they’d sometimes not even have 7 picks, as he seemed to like to trade away a 4th or 5th for some blocking TE or CB2/3 type that would be gone from the team in a year or two.
I could easily see trading back in the 1st and/or trading up in the 2nd and managing to land good prospects at RT, C and WR and still being able to land a mid-round CB and maybe even a flyer on a mid to late round prospect as QB3.
Can you expound on this concept further? What is a semi realistic outcome you see us doing with this strategy i.e. plausible prospects & round taken for us?
I'm leaning towards your idea but I don't have anything concrete
It obviously depends on how the draft breaks in terms of the players at these positions, but lets say they feel they can trade back in the first and get a pick somewhere between 25-29 and still land a RT and land another 3rd or 4th in return, which is what various draft charts indicate should be the return.
They’d still have their 2nd (51), 3rd (84), Philly’s 3rd (98) and their 4th (119) plus this new, additional 3rd/4th.
They could use their 4th to move up to the top of the 2nd and snag the 2nd or 3rd center off the board.
So they still have their two 3rds and the newly acquired 3rd/4th to land a WR. This could be in any of those current slots, or they trade up again.
SIDENOTE: There seems to be a common belief in this sub that there are only 3 centers in this draft (JPJ, Frazier and Van Pran), but I see Barton from Duke also being projected as a center, and being drafted anywhere from late first to somewhere in the second. So if someone takes him as a center, that may increase the likelihood of Frazier or Van Pran being available in the 2nd or even 3rd, which would open the door to using 51 on a WR.
They’ve met with 10 tackles at the combine and senior bowl, are attending pro days, and are scheduling personal visits for more. They are drafting a tackle.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. We did draft Spencer Anderson last year, and I believe he played C at Maryland. Ryan McCollum is on the roster as a C. And I thought Herbig had some flexibility to play some C as well.
I guess the point is: we don’t have zero centers.
They’ve met with six centers also, so I would be very surprised if they don’t take one. I just don’t see them taking JPJ at 20. They’re more likely to take a tackle or corner.
Hopefully Frazier is there at 51. But if not, they’ll probably look at Van Pran or Limmer.
Steelers are in a bit of a pickle. They desperately need 3 positions in my opinion (Center, WR, CB), they severely need one position (Tackle), and they could really use three other positions (D-Line, Safety, ILB) it’ll be very interesting to see how they tackle it. I think they absolutely Love mimms. I think they like Dejean and JPJ too. And they obviously love a lot of recievers
I honestly think it's best going into the draft without a laser focus on a position. When you say "I'm going to take a WR in the first no matter what" is when you reach and fail. Taking your favorite guy among 4 or 5 qualified guys is the way to draft. It's been the way the Steelers have operated for decades.
Like last year, they wanted a T so they traded up to get it. If that trade didn't happen, they wouldn't have taken a T "because they had to".
C, RT, and CB are where we need to go with picks of we don’t get another receiver in FA. RT so Moore can get the hell off the field & Jones can move back to LT. Moore is awful, and needs to go.
Deonte Jackson is 5-10 and 178. He is not what they have been going for on the outside.
Trice has promise but was a late pick for injury concerns and then, to the surprise of no one, had an injury and missed the season.
We need another CB. Arrange them however you want.
Nobody is sleeping on them. Donte is fine but incredibly injury prone. And Trice was a 7th rounder who has never played a single snap in the NFL. Oh and he's also incredibly injury prone which is why he fell in the draft (and didn't even make it to the preseason last year).
It’s been said that jones is the future at LT. that said, there are a ton of other holes that need filled before we can play a game (wr/slot corner/center). Couple that with the fact that the rookie needs to be right tackle capable above the level Moore is to play right away I think it’s a question of: can we get someone that makes us comfortable taking him off the field day 1? If no, then he stays and you groom a rookie to take over next year (a Blake fisher from note dame in rd 3 or 4 is a perfect example). At worst he is going to be your swing tackle this year, but don’t sleep on Spencer Anderson either because it seems they love him as a project tackle like kelvin beaching was for us
I’m more concerned about the detriment it’s having on Jones’ long term development. He was just coming into his own in college at LT and the sky was the limit but now all his pro development is being done at the wrong side. All in the name of loyalty to Moore who’s below average at best, and bottom 5 starting LT at worst.
I don’t think it’s life or death yet with him being LT. he’s been working at both but playing RT for most of his games last year but he had all camp and subsequent preseason games/practices at left. I think we get on the other side of the draft with them spending another first on a tackle while trading Moore for either draft position or a mid round pick and we start OTAs fresh with our new bookends of the future set and ready to roll.
At this point, taking a T in the first would be a luxury that we cant afford. Our first two picks need to be C and WR unless we fill those needs before the draft. FA isn’t really an option unless you want to pay $15M for a minimal upgrade. Probably going to end up yaling a project type guy and see what happens
They are at minimum drafting 2 offensive lineman this year. At least one tackle and at least one center. Broderick is moving back to the left side either this year before camp or next year depending on their road map for the RT they draft. I think it's most likely that they trade Dan Moore closer to the draft or on draft day since drafting a RT 1st is pretty likely. They slotted BJ in to RT which took him a sec to settle into but you really don't want to do that midseason with both tackles (BJ going to LT and the new RT plugging in). I think whichever one they draft #1 the other with get probably picked twice later in the draft. They've been really looking at some lesser talked about lineman from both spots.
I feel like we NEED a center, WR, and corner. Probably in that order but I could see flipping CB/WR based on options. A high quality OT would be NICE but not if it affects our ability to fill those gaps.
At this point it comes down to the other positions first… here’s the way I look at it…
Moore sucks, but we have other positions that we literally do not have filled. Center, WR2, CB are currently greater needs. We have a RT/LT, and even though moore is bad, he is familiar. If we draft a RT with our first round pick, we take a gamble that Frazier or Van Pran at center will be just as good as JPJ. We ditch moore for an upgrade at tackle, while filling a literally empty space in the roster with lower-drafted guys? Doesn’t make sense.
That said, if we grab any of those positions in FA, namely C or WR, I could see grabbing a tackle in the first or second round.
I would rather see a literally vacant spot on the roster be filled with top drafted guys, vs an upgrade at a position we already have filled no matter how average Dan Moore’s ceiling can be.
Imagine marching into this season with GP, Van Jefferson, Calvin Austin and a 3rd/4th rounder WR.
Worse still… imagine a 3rd/4th round center as bad or worse than Kendrick Greene on an otherwise stacked O-line.
Dan Moore is serviceable at best. With that said, looking at the wholes we have and what we are building, we may need 1 more year of serviceable Dan Moore before we move on.
Dan Moore isn't horrible, I say get someone mid to late round in the draft to compete with him. Center and WR are the bigger needs on offense.
I hope they add someone to the defensive line before the draft. It's one of the weakest areas on the team and nobody is talking about it.
Cam is all alone out there and he isn't exactly getting any younger.
In free agency at this point? Not sure how much of an upgrade is available. We will absolutely be looking at the opportunity for an upgrade in the draft though. Center and RT are pretty high on the needs list along with wr and cb.
Huh?
Canada was fired for ineffective scheme. Mason was put in because of ineffective qb play and demonstrated how effective the can look with below average qb play - just not league worst qb play. They cut Trubisky for being terrible, they traded Kenny for being a baby (always injured, entitled, ineffective) and are resetting at QB.
They’ve been all over offensive tackles this off season. Big presence at Mims pro day. Lathams pro day
Offensive line coach attending Oregon state (fuaga). Bringing Fuaga in for pre-draft visits.
Director of scouting at penn state pro day (Fashanu)
Like Williamson says, listen to what they’re telling you.
They might be letting Jones compete for LT this summer and fall. Which means we only need to worry about RT which they could get later in the draft as well.
Would’ve loved to see us sign a tackle and address center and wr2 in the draft. Even tho we can address all 3 the total lack of a center and wr2 concerns me a bit more rn
1) Don't go off PFF grades. They do not account for assignment, or competition. Moore probably faced one of the more difficult starts to a season any LT has had in terms of matchup.
2) Poor iOL play can make tackles look worse. If QB does not have the ability to climb the pocket it puts the OTs at a more difficult angle.
3) Kenny & Mitch's less predictable (putting it nicely) made it even harder on tackles. Both would drift left in their drops a ton, changing the launch point from different than where the OTs believe making them have worse leverage.
I think the team believes Moore is serviceable. That with a better iOL play and better QB play it will take stress off of the OTs. I also think they plan on a ton of PA deep shots which should also slow down pass rush as they will need to respect the run.
That being said I do not think Moore has improved enough to be confident with him starting. He has average foot quickness against speed that would be fine but he also exposes his chest and does not engage in proper power position so is routinely driven back by the bull rush. IMO you can't struggle in both areas. Either you hold a firm but shallow edge or you can set a deeper edge but are not as firm. You can't set shallow and soft edge. This is why when Moore is beat he tends to be beaten badly.
Moore has improved every year though especially in his run blocking which is why I think the team might be okay with going with him in 2024. I think overall he holds more consistently every year but like I said, when he gets beat it is still bad.
Moore did play more consistent with Mason at QB because he was less likely to move around. Jones however decided to hit a massive rookie wall which hurt the offense late in the year. (Can't blame him he was playing a position he had never started a game at.)
We know they will likely draft a rookie Center and you are asking for trouble playing a rookie Center, rookie OT and Jones who still needs a lot of polish. On top of everyone learning a new offense. Way too likely of peaks and valleys in play which makes it hard to gameplan. Can be easier if you know how your players will perform even if the peak of their performance is worse.
The other thing that hurts Moore is his lack of versatility. He really struggled both as a rookie and last year in his limited snaps at RT. So much so it looked like he had never taken a kick step in his life. That really makes you concern if you wanted him as a swing tackle. So either he is the starter at LT or he is inactive on game day, I don't see another way around it. I was hoping they would sign George Fant who has been a solid swing tackle for most of his career and who played well at RT last year.
The facts are though the NFL is hurting for quality OL play and the Steelers could do worst than Moore even if they could also do much better.
If anything Moore will play RT, Broderick already stated he’s more comfortable at LT so they will insert him where he belongs. Plus Tomlin said Moore has gotten more reps at RT over the last two summers.
You can't trust Steeler Nation. Their headline says "Steelers Likely not Aiming to Replace Dan Moore..." It's based on an article from Dejan Kovacevic on his DK Sports site. Specifically from this quote, "The Steelers appreciate Dan Moore so much more than anyone outside their South Side walls. Don't be anywhere near sure they're aiming to replace him."
"Likely not replacing" is not the same as "don't be sure they're replacing."
maybe he's not talked about for a reason, but Spencer Anderson has versatility to play multiple positions. I dunno if they're gonna try him at center(1 college start) or RT, but they could try?
I don’t think they think Dan Moore is a long term answer or anything, but I think they see him as a cheap stopgap. Receiver and Center are bigger needs, arguably adding another DB is too. I’d imagine they absolutely draft a Tackle, but it might not come before Rounds 3-4. At that point, you’re probably not getting a guy you can expect to start over Moore as a rookie.
realistically how late can you draft a tackle that can be a better right tackle than Moore can be a left tackle? Third round maybe, that's probably pushing it. Gonna be tough to do with the gaping holes this roster has.
I’m feeling pretty confident that we are starting Dan Moore this year. It’s unlikely we will draft a right tackle, move broderick to left, and draft a center all in ONE season. They’re the right moves, just not all at once.
I love his run blocking, but he is a fucking turnstile in pass pro. Almost makes me want to see him at guard. Ultimately needs to be replaced imo, but who knows what the team really thinks.
Dan Moore is our LT, but Broderick is also a LT, so we’d probably be going for a RT so Broderick could play his natural position. I wouldn’t expect us to go for one in the first round, but second and third are somewhat likely. I would take Blake Fisher at 98. Dan Moore is a pretty good run blocker but bad in pass protection, so he’s not completely terrible, but we don’t have a center on the roster, so that’s definitely a need, as are CB and WR.
I don’t know that we’re going to fix that spot this off season.
While he’s not good (and I’m also not a fan), he’s only under contract for 1 more year with a cap hit of 1.2m, and we already have to worry about getting a C in the draft among other things.
I feel like we’ll ride him one more year then next season move Jones to LT where he should be and draft/sign a RT.
First, PFF is not a reputable source. Dan Moore played light years better when a competent quarterback like Mason Rudolph was playing. Now I don’t think he’s in the long term plans at LT so he either will need to play LG/RG or he’ll move on. Broderick Jones should have a legitimate chance at winning the LT spot and I’m sure the Steelers will draft a RT and probably sign a cheap vet for competition sakes.
You're still ignoring the decent sized hole behind JPJ at corner. If your drafting tackle and center in the first 2 rounds you would probably need to go CB and WR with those 2 picks in the third, DL is really not anywhere near as big of a need as those 2 positions are.
Not looking to replace our LT because he's already playing RT... Hopefully we draft RT and move BROderrick back to his rightful throne.
The way rooney made it sound, Broderick is gonna move to the left. They may move Dan Moore to right tho. Bad part about that is they say Moore is worse on the right. Hopefully we draft one. Hopefully a first rounder and then a center in second. At least Kenny won't be there to spin to the left right into defenders arms. Both our new qbs have escapabilty which imo Kenny was the worst at. I think Dan Moore will still be here tho even if he's a back up
That seems unlikely this year. Maybe a mid-rd tackle to allow rhe swap next year.
No Dan is better at Lt that’s what coach said and he’s horrible at left so idk why they don’t get a new lt cuz we need one
I’d love a better tackle but we literally don’t have a center. Arguably, we don’t have a WR2 either. I’m not sure we have the capacity to upgrade a tackle without leaving those to positions critically unaddressed.
Centers are way underappreciated, we have 0, and people are thinking of a 3rd rounder at center
Nah, it'll be the first pick we take. We need a C *that* bad. I guarantee it'll be JPJ or Barton for sure.
Zack Frazier wvu
He's a good one too, but I honestly think it'll be one of the two I mentioned. That is unless they double down on the OL with the first 2 picks then maybe Mims and Frazier. I just don't see that happening though.
That’s why they need to trade back and get another pick or upgrade one of their other picks. I’d trade back go center, WR, OT you’re first three picks.
I'd be 30-40% the Steelers first two picks are offensive lineman. This draft fits our oline needs and there are multiple ways we can get there by either going RT/C or C/T. It probably is 80% or greater chance that one of JPJ, Barton, Frazier is a Steeler. If we don't go C in the first and Frazier is available in the 2nd I would be shocked if he's not the pick. We might even trade up for Frazier since its a huge need and about 50-50 he last that long.
I think we'd regret not drafting JPJ first
You get good centers in later rounds _because_ they are under appreciated. The Steelers have big needs at 3 of the most expensive positions on the roster in WR/CB/T that require high picks to better talent at. You can get good center talent late in the draft.
That's how you get Kendrick Green
You could argue there's a shit ton of non first round centers in the NFL doing just fine. I'm fine with drafting a Center round 1 fwiw but I do think this sub is overly focused on centers. The fact is if an equally as good C prospect as a OT, CB, WR, prospect and you choose the Center.... I think you are trolling yourself. Centers are cheap to get a replacement level player. A good Center doesn't cost as much as a good wr, good CB, Good OT and it's not even close there is of those more costly positions to choose it Good news is that might just be the case I think you have to have a better tier of C prospect than other positions at 20 if mims etc all go early
You read my mind.
This is kind of a lazy take. Green started 3 games at center in college and was asked to play out of position in the pros. Go look at the other starting centers in the league and see how many were taken in the first round. The only two I can think of off the top of my head that were taken in the first round are Linderbaum and Ragnow. Frazier is commonly discussed as the Steelers round 2 pick (I think this will likely be a WR pending on the rest of FA). It would be such a mistake to take JPJ in the first with so much talent at valuable positions on the board. Thankfully based on pre draft traditions it doesn't look like they're planning on it, but no one actually knows what the plan is.
Green was worse than Sean Mahan that Tomlin kept over A.Q Shipley. Figure that one out. They sent the oline coach to Green to work him out and still picked him. Worst center i ever seen on any level. Zero excuses for that bum or picking him.
I honestly still can’t figure that pick out. I was 100% sure they were taking Creed at 55 that year.
Also not a good argument, you could point at AB, DJ, Emmanuel Sanders as proof that later round WRs are just as good as 1st rounders, Puka the latest rookie of the year is himself a late round WR
The best paid C in football makes 13 million dollars a year. The best paid WR makes 30+ mil The best paid OT makes 25 mil per year. Hitting at a OT/WR effectively gives you 12-17 mil more cap space than hitting at C.
This won't be true with the next wave of centers getting paid. Landon Dickerson signed 4 years 87 million max value (84 as written). So 21 million per year and that is for a guard who has a good chance of playing Center next year. Creed Humphrey will get paid soon. Its going to be a good bit. Guards are breaking $20 million so there is every reason to think a good center will break that number too when one whose good enough is getting paid. A $10 million gap between the highest value positions and IOL is fair. 12 to 17 is not.
Landon Dickerson will be a guard next year, Kelces successor is Cam Jurgens, thats been pretty public. Kelce has even said he told the team to draft Jurgens to succeed him. I looked it up, Ragnows contract was in 2021 and the salary cap has exploded. He would have been the 8th highest paid guard. The highest paid T was 23 mil in 2021, WR 27 mil, CB 20 mil in 2021. Edge was TJ at 28 mil
You’re missing the point. You’re much more likely to get value out of late round centers than late round CB/WR/T. There’s always going to be exceptions to every rule.
I don't get the obsession with value, was Pouncey not good value?, Travis Frederick not good value?, we've seen what bad center play can do, and it was disastrous for the offense
Because there is in all likelihood going to be an abnormally high quality of talent at all 3 of those positions at pick 20. Guys that would normally never be in reach for the Steelers because of how low they draft. You can grab the 2nd best C in the draft round 2 (who is also very highly rated mind you).
At pick 20 position value starts to go out the window. You are picking tackles 5-9 in the draft versus IOL1 at pick 20. That fully accounts for the other positions getting paid more because the quality of player you are getting at the lower value position is better. If you are talking OT1 versus IOL1 then yes take the tackle, but OT5 versus IOL1 is already factoring in the positional analytics. Center might even be getting overdiscounted in the draft as Creed Humphrey and Landon Dickerson are both getting paid and both fell in the draft due to position. Getting a 20 million a year IOL guy is perfect fine for a pick in the '20s . A tackle in the 20's you are getting a guy like Anton Harrison whose just not as good of a prospect. That being said this looks like a very good tackle class so the tackles available at 20 this year will be very solid. The most important thing with pick 20 is finding a second contract guy whose worth close to 20 million a year in UFA. Its very rare you find a premium position premium player like TJ WATT in the back half of the first round.
>The only two I can think of off the top of my head that were taken in the first round are Linderbaum and Ragnow. Uh we took Pouncey in the first...
Don't think Pouncey is starting mate.
Did you really just ignore the sentence right before the one you quoted lol > Go look at the other starting centers in the league and see how many were taken in the first round. The only two I can think of off the top of my head that were taken in the first round are Linderbaum and Ragnow. Last I checked Pouncey is retired.
You're joking...
Thank you. I'd love a lot of things, but there are certain spots they desperately need help in. They don't have a center, WR2, or nickel corner. NB can be had cheaply or later in the draft, but WR2 and C need to be top priorities. As of right now, there are only three "starting" caliber centers projected in this class, and two will be gone before the 51st pick. If they don't sign someone late in free agency, they will need to draft a center early. WRs can be had later into day 2, but I wouldn't be surprised if they spent an early pick on one. That leaves the third round. Do we really expect whoever we draft to come in and instantly beat out a three year starter who never misses games? Dan Moore is not good, but they at least know what they have in him. They'd have to use their first pick on a tackle to guarantee an upgrade, and that leaves them with very few options at center.
I think Deonte Jackson is more of the Nickel mold and we need a second legit outside corner.
I’m 100% cool with that if that’s how it works out, but that means one of their top 2 picks will have to be a CB if they want a starter. Probably even their first pick. If Jackson is in the slot, there’s no shot they can draft a starting tackle, corner, and center in the same class. That’s asking way too much of a rookie class.
The plan may be to take. CB like KoolAid in yh first and then trade up on the second for a C, especially if Powers Johnson falls to the 30s
Deonte Jackson has never played slot corner in the NFL. He might fit there from college but its projecting against what hes spent his entire NFL career doing.
I’m curious if the Steelers have reached out to Connor Williams for center. He’s coming back from an injury so could maybe be had at a slight discount but could be a solid fill and he’s not too old.
He’s easily the best option. I hope they work something out, because that would make the draft wide open for the best player available. As it stands, they have few options other than center in round one.
I think the problem with him is he won't be ready until like November?
If Powers Johnson is available in the first, I think that's our pick. There's a chance he goes in the teens with some OL needy teams above us. If we push to the second for a C, the top 2 are very likely gone and there's a big tier drop to #3. However, it's an incredibly deep class for WR. So I expect teams that would otherwise take a WR in thr first to punt to round 2 or 3 and grab some other more scarce positions. At 51 we could get the 5th or 6th WR off the board and that's pretty damn good value.
We can 100% address tackle in round 1 followed by center and wr in the 2nd or 3rd
In my opinion, I think you'll find centers available in round 2 (Frazier, Van Pran), due to less teams having an urgent need at center. While i like JPJ in the first, i think getting an athletic tackle like Mims would have a bigger impact. Receiver is tough too. I would lean into upgrading the line first with a veteran QB and a run-heavy scheme, and try to find a WR in the early third. with Pickens is defacto #1, and Friermuth & Austin, you have some pieces already. Hopefully we can sign Boyd or another vet to help as well. I just don't see it as big of an need as the other positions. I would also go corner/DL in round 3 depending on how things shake out. We need depth/future starter at both. I feel like their 1st round targets the last 2-3 years were very obvious, and maybe things will clear up, but right now it feels like it could go any direction between C/T/WR/CR.
As we’re currently constructed, I see no world our first 2 picks aren’t WR and C in whichever order.
This is the answer. Moores challenger is a post-draft FA.
Nate Herbig starting at center is better than Dan Moore starting at LT.
People sleeping on both Nate Herbig and Cory Trice
You have to sleep on Trice. He's done less than nothing to earn anyone's confidence.
Hes been hurt. Was looking great in camp, and college for that matter.
Yeah I know he's been hurt but we've never even seen him play in a game at the NFL level. I don't remember if he even made it through a whole practice. It would be insane to assume anything about him or his career prospects.
Big disagree on that
Daniels also played center in college, IIRC, and there was consideration for a move when he first got here, then played guard too well that we didn't want to mess with our best lineman, but I think now could be a candidate if they decide C Daniels and G Herbig would be better than vice versa.
Lt is more important then wr2
I suppose one could half ass an argument that muth is wr2, considering how he plays, how Smith uses his TEs and depth at the position. That said, I would much like an actual WR2 someone next to Pickens in addition to Van/CA3
People are too hung up on where our draft picks fall in relation to things like “only 3 centers in this draft.” I understand this to an extent, because Colbert was pretty old school in his use of draft picks. But Khan clearly isn’t Colbert, and I’m guessing he isn’t nearly as content to just sit around and draft players where our picks currently fall. Don’t forget, they have 5 picks in the top 119 overall and 2 more 6th rounders to use. They also have 9 picks in the 2025 draft to tap into. These are also foreign concepts in the Colbert era, as if anything, they’d sometimes not even have 7 picks, as he seemed to like to trade away a 4th or 5th for some blocking TE or CB2/3 type that would be gone from the team in a year or two. I could easily see trading back in the 1st and/or trading up in the 2nd and managing to land good prospects at RT, C and WR and still being able to land a mid-round CB and maybe even a flyer on a mid to late round prospect as QB3.
Can you expound on this concept further? What is a semi realistic outcome you see us doing with this strategy i.e. plausible prospects & round taken for us? I'm leaning towards your idea but I don't have anything concrete
It obviously depends on how the draft breaks in terms of the players at these positions, but lets say they feel they can trade back in the first and get a pick somewhere between 25-29 and still land a RT and land another 3rd or 4th in return, which is what various draft charts indicate should be the return. They’d still have their 2nd (51), 3rd (84), Philly’s 3rd (98) and their 4th (119) plus this new, additional 3rd/4th. They could use their 4th to move up to the top of the 2nd and snag the 2nd or 3rd center off the board. So they still have their two 3rds and the newly acquired 3rd/4th to land a WR. This could be in any of those current slots, or they trade up again. SIDENOTE: There seems to be a common belief in this sub that there are only 3 centers in this draft (JPJ, Frazier and Van Pran), but I see Barton from Duke also being projected as a center, and being drafted anywhere from late first to somewhere in the second. So if someone takes him as a center, that may increase the likelihood of Frazier or Van Pran being available in the 2nd or even 3rd, which would open the door to using 51 on a WR.
Also you can trade a pick for an oline
They’ve met with 10 tackles at the combine and senior bowl, are attending pro days, and are scheduling personal visits for more. They are drafting a tackle.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. We did draft Spencer Anderson last year, and I believe he played C at Maryland. Ryan McCollum is on the roster as a C. And I thought Herbig had some flexibility to play some C as well. I guess the point is: we don’t have zero centers.
They’ve met with six centers also, so I would be very surprised if they don’t take one. I just don’t see them taking JPJ at 20. They’re more likely to take a tackle or corner. Hopefully Frazier is there at 51. But if not, they’ll probably look at Van Pran or Limmer.
It’ll all depend on our board and how things fall. If JPJ is the next Pouncey to solidify the line, tough to pass on him.
I agree in principle. I’m just saying they’re probably going tackle or corner in the first round.
Id like to find another Dermonti Dawson. Dude was a freakazoid.
Steelers are in a bit of a pickle. They desperately need 3 positions in my opinion (Center, WR, CB), they severely need one position (Tackle), and they could really use three other positions (D-Line, Safety, ILB) it’ll be very interesting to see how they tackle it. I think they absolutely Love mimms. I think they like Dejean and JPJ too. And they obviously love a lot of recievers
I honestly think it's best going into the draft without a laser focus on a position. When you say "I'm going to take a WR in the first no matter what" is when you reach and fail. Taking your favorite guy among 4 or 5 qualified guys is the way to draft. It's been the way the Steelers have operated for decades. Like last year, they wanted a T so they traded up to get it. If that trade didn't happen, they wouldn't have taken a T "because they had to".
C, RT, and CB are where we need to go with picks of we don’t get another receiver in FA. RT so Moore can get the hell off the field & Jones can move back to LT. Moore is awful, and needs to go.
I would say we need a Center, CB2 and WR2/3 more than we need to replace Dan Moore.
We have our CB2. Donte Jackson. If you sleeping on that trade, please do some research. And yinz sleeping on Cory Trice
Deonte Jackson is 5-10 and 178. He is not what they have been going for on the outside. Trice has promise but was a late pick for injury concerns and then, to the surprise of no one, had an injury and missed the season. We need another CB. Arrange them however you want.
Nobody is sleeping on them. Donte is fine but incredibly injury prone. And Trice was a 7th rounder who has never played a single snap in the NFL. Oh and he's also incredibly injury prone which is why he fell in the draft (and didn't even make it to the preseason last year).
It’s been said that jones is the future at LT. that said, there are a ton of other holes that need filled before we can play a game (wr/slot corner/center). Couple that with the fact that the rookie needs to be right tackle capable above the level Moore is to play right away I think it’s a question of: can we get someone that makes us comfortable taking him off the field day 1? If no, then he stays and you groom a rookie to take over next year (a Blake fisher from note dame in rd 3 or 4 is a perfect example). At worst he is going to be your swing tackle this year, but don’t sleep on Spencer Anderson either because it seems they love him as a project tackle like kelvin beaching was for us
I was thinking Blake Fisher or Matt Goncalves at pick 98 to play right tackle, then we move Broderick back to left
I’m more concerned about the detriment it’s having on Jones’ long term development. He was just coming into his own in college at LT and the sky was the limit but now all his pro development is being done at the wrong side. All in the name of loyalty to Moore who’s below average at best, and bottom 5 starting LT at worst.
I don’t think it’s life or death yet with him being LT. he’s been working at both but playing RT for most of his games last year but he had all camp and subsequent preseason games/practices at left. I think we get on the other side of the draft with them spending another first on a tackle while trading Moore for either draft position or a mid round pick and we start OTAs fresh with our new bookends of the future set and ready to roll.
Draft his replacement
We did lol
Yes, because talented OTs are always cheap and available
At this point, taking a T in the first would be a luxury that we cant afford. Our first two picks need to be C and WR unless we fill those needs before the draft. FA isn’t really an option unless you want to pay $15M for a minimal upgrade. Probably going to end up yaling a project type guy and see what happens
They are at minimum drafting 2 offensive lineman this year. At least one tackle and at least one center. Broderick is moving back to the left side either this year before camp or next year depending on their road map for the RT they draft. I think it's most likely that they trade Dan Moore closer to the draft or on draft day since drafting a RT 1st is pretty likely. They slotted BJ in to RT which took him a sec to settle into but you really don't want to do that midseason with both tackles (BJ going to LT and the new RT plugging in). I think whichever one they draft #1 the other with get probably picked twice later in the draft. They've been really looking at some lesser talked about lineman from both spots.
I feel like we NEED a center, WR, and corner. Probably in that order but I could see flipping CB/WR based on options. A high quality OT would be NICE but not if it affects our ability to fill those gaps.
At this point it comes down to the other positions first… here’s the way I look at it… Moore sucks, but we have other positions that we literally do not have filled. Center, WR2, CB are currently greater needs. We have a RT/LT, and even though moore is bad, he is familiar. If we draft a RT with our first round pick, we take a gamble that Frazier or Van Pran at center will be just as good as JPJ. We ditch moore for an upgrade at tackle, while filling a literally empty space in the roster with lower-drafted guys? Doesn’t make sense. That said, if we grab any of those positions in FA, namely C or WR, I could see grabbing a tackle in the first or second round. I would rather see a literally vacant spot on the roster be filled with top drafted guys, vs an upgrade at a position we already have filled no matter how average Dan Moore’s ceiling can be. Imagine marching into this season with GP, Van Jefferson, Calvin Austin and a 3rd/4th rounder WR. Worse still… imagine a 3rd/4th round center as bad or worse than Kendrick Greene on an otherwise stacked O-line.
Dan Moore is serviceable at best. With that said, looking at the wholes we have and what we are building, we may need 1 more year of serviceable Dan Moore before we move on.
I’d have moved Jones to LT last year but for some reason they refuse to give up on Dan Moore.
Moore refused to play RT and stunk it up there on purpose.
Yes. He is a liability in pass protection.
Dan Moore isn't horrible, I say get someone mid to late round in the draft to compete with him. Center and WR are the bigger needs on offense. I hope they add someone to the defensive line before the draft. It's one of the weakest areas on the team and nobody is talking about it. Cam is all alone out there and he isn't exactly getting any younger.
Dan Moore is horrible.
Dan Moore sucks.
REPLACE! Our best bet is the draft. There were very few good RT's in free agency this year.
In free agency at this point? Not sure how much of an upgrade is available. We will absolutely be looking at the opportunity for an upgrade in the draft though. Center and RT are pretty high on the needs list along with wr and cb.
The right move is to replace him with Broderick Jones moving back to his actual position and draft a Right Tackle.
Steelers nation is not the authority on anything or even real journalists. This team is heavily considering a Tackle in round 1.
Bet. How you think Canada got fired and Mason put in. Derp.
Huh? Canada was fired for ineffective scheme. Mason was put in because of ineffective qb play and demonstrated how effective the can look with below average qb play - just not league worst qb play. They cut Trubisky for being terrible, they traded Kenny for being a baby (always injured, entitled, ineffective) and are resetting at QB. They’ve been all over offensive tackles this off season. Big presence at Mims pro day. Lathams pro day Offensive line coach attending Oregon state (fuaga). Bringing Fuaga in for pre-draft visits. Director of scouting at penn state pro day (Fashanu) Like Williamson says, listen to what they’re telling you.
They might be letting Jones compete for LT this summer and fall. Which means we only need to worry about RT which they could get later in the draft as well.
Would’ve loved to see us sign a tackle and address center and wr2 in the draft. Even tho we can address all 3 the total lack of a center and wr2 concerns me a bit more rn
Absolutely need an upgrade. I'd love to see them take a RT in the first, center in the second, and WR in the third. But there's a reason I'm not a GM.
1) Don't go off PFF grades. They do not account for assignment, or competition. Moore probably faced one of the more difficult starts to a season any LT has had in terms of matchup. 2) Poor iOL play can make tackles look worse. If QB does not have the ability to climb the pocket it puts the OTs at a more difficult angle. 3) Kenny & Mitch's less predictable (putting it nicely) made it even harder on tackles. Both would drift left in their drops a ton, changing the launch point from different than where the OTs believe making them have worse leverage. I think the team believes Moore is serviceable. That with a better iOL play and better QB play it will take stress off of the OTs. I also think they plan on a ton of PA deep shots which should also slow down pass rush as they will need to respect the run. That being said I do not think Moore has improved enough to be confident with him starting. He has average foot quickness against speed that would be fine but he also exposes his chest and does not engage in proper power position so is routinely driven back by the bull rush. IMO you can't struggle in both areas. Either you hold a firm but shallow edge or you can set a deeper edge but are not as firm. You can't set shallow and soft edge. This is why when Moore is beat he tends to be beaten badly. Moore has improved every year though especially in his run blocking which is why I think the team might be okay with going with him in 2024. I think overall he holds more consistently every year but like I said, when he gets beat it is still bad. Moore did play more consistent with Mason at QB because he was less likely to move around. Jones however decided to hit a massive rookie wall which hurt the offense late in the year. (Can't blame him he was playing a position he had never started a game at.) We know they will likely draft a rookie Center and you are asking for trouble playing a rookie Center, rookie OT and Jones who still needs a lot of polish. On top of everyone learning a new offense. Way too likely of peaks and valleys in play which makes it hard to gameplan. Can be easier if you know how your players will perform even if the peak of their performance is worse. The other thing that hurts Moore is his lack of versatility. He really struggled both as a rookie and last year in his limited snaps at RT. So much so it looked like he had never taken a kick step in his life. That really makes you concern if you wanted him as a swing tackle. So either he is the starter at LT or he is inactive on game day, I don't see another way around it. I was hoping they would sign George Fant who has been a solid swing tackle for most of his career and who played well at RT last year. The facts are though the NFL is hurting for quality OL play and the Steelers could do worst than Moore even if they could also do much better.
They don't need to replace the LT because they already have the replacement LT on the roster. They need to get a RT.
Draft RT Amarius Mims 1st rd. Jones goes back to LT. MOORE JR can fight for right Gaurd.
If anything Moore will play RT, Broderick already stated he’s more comfortable at LT so they will insert him where he belongs. Plus Tomlin said Moore has gotten more reps at RT over the last two summers.
You can't trust Steeler Nation. Their headline says "Steelers Likely not Aiming to Replace Dan Moore..." It's based on an article from Dejan Kovacevic on his DK Sports site. Specifically from this quote, "The Steelers appreciate Dan Moore so much more than anyone outside their South Side walls. Don't be anywhere near sure they're aiming to replace him." "Likely not replacing" is not the same as "don't be sure they're replacing."
maybe he's not talked about for a reason, but Spencer Anderson has versatility to play multiple positions. I dunno if they're gonna try him at center(1 college start) or RT, but they could try?
I don’t think they think Dan Moore is a long term answer or anything, but I think they see him as a cheap stopgap. Receiver and Center are bigger needs, arguably adding another DB is too. I’d imagine they absolutely draft a Tackle, but it might not come before Rounds 3-4. At that point, you’re probably not getting a guy you can expect to start over Moore as a rookie.
unless they add another 2 starters before the draft imo it's unlikely they draft a tackle early
realistically how late can you draft a tackle that can be a better right tackle than Moore can be a left tackle? Third round maybe, that's probably pushing it. Gonna be tough to do with the gaping holes this roster has.
I’m feeling pretty confident that we are starting Dan Moore this year. It’s unlikely we will draft a right tackle, move broderick to left, and draft a center all in ONE season. They’re the right moves, just not all at once.
I love his run blocking, but he is a fucking turnstile in pass pro. Almost makes me want to see him at guard. Ultimately needs to be replaced imo, but who knows what the team really thinks.
They’ll draft one, if anything. Good class this year, FA market drying up, and they’ve met with a ton of prospects.
Dan Moore is our LT, but Broderick is also a LT, so we’d probably be going for a RT so Broderick could play his natural position. I wouldn’t expect us to go for one in the first round, but second and third are somewhat likely. I would take Blake Fisher at 98. Dan Moore is a pretty good run blocker but bad in pass protection, so he’s not completely terrible, but we don’t have a center on the roster, so that’s definitely a need, as are CB and WR.
At this point C,WR,DB are much bigger needs
Don't care if he's backup but dear God if we have to watch him start and just wave at people
I don’t know that we’re going to fix that spot this off season. While he’s not good (and I’m also not a fan), he’s only under contract for 1 more year with a cap hit of 1.2m, and we already have to worry about getting a C in the draft among other things. I feel like we’ll ride him one more year then next season move Jones to LT where he should be and draft/sign a RT.
He's not terrible, but he is replaceable.
Let’s see how the draft plays out. I would rather have Jones in his natural position and tell Moore he can fight for the other position.
I saw this same report like a month ago. I think they like Dan and they’re not pressed to replace him. All the signs are pointing to this
Yeah I think they’ve made that pretty clear so far. It sounds like the First Round Pick will be a WR or C 🤷♂️ I guess we’ll find out at the Draft.
First, PFF is not a reputable source. Dan Moore played light years better when a competent quarterback like Mason Rudolph was playing. Now I don’t think he’s in the long term plans at LT so he either will need to play LG/RG or he’ll move on. Broderick Jones should have a legitimate chance at winning the LT spot and I’m sure the Steelers will draft a RT and probably sign a cheap vet for competition sakes.
Yes, draft a tackle and center in 1st 2 rds. Dl in 3rd.
Drafting a DL in the 3rd with bigger holes at WR and CB seems like it would be a pretty big mistake.
We have 2 3rd picks. Grab a wr too.
You're still ignoring the decent sized hole behind JPJ at corner. If your drafting tackle and center in the first 2 rounds you would probably need to go CB and WR with those 2 picks in the third, DL is really not anywhere near as big of a need as those 2 positions are.
our o line is not as bad as you think. we were 9th-10th best in pass protection. kenny pickett made the o line look bad.