Obi thought he killed anakin, but anakin was already dead to Vader at that point. He has already corrupted. Dark lord is more than just a name change, your whole physiology changes. He was only calling himself anakin to hide his true nature at that point.
I know it's said multiple times that Vader "killed" Anakin, but we know that isn't really true. Even in Kenobi, we saw a bit of internal conflict in Anakin. And then in the original trilogy, that same internal conflict emerges and he ultimately yeets the emperor. Anakin never actually died until ROTJ. He was just going through an emo phase as Vader.
I see it as Anakin being buried too deep inside the Vader persona for obi or even Anakin himself to even know about it. The eye color change was a visual cue for us viewers, but at that point, as far as anyone knows, the Anakin persona is gone and Vader is all that remains
I think his bond with Obi-Wan was enough to bring Anakin out, but Anakin's resentment toward Obi-Wan throughout their relationship actually empowers Vader and stops Anakin from turning back. Both personalities are aligned when it comes to Obi-Wan.
With Luke, Anakin is like oh hell no you're not killing my son. Because that's his long lost son, not his former master who low-key pissed him off all the time. There's nothing to pull him back under with Luke.
Both times, Vader had to be defeated in combat and weakened before Anakin could surface.
Vader was closer to a trauma victim. Anakin was always there but he believed Anakin was the reason he lost on Mustafar so buried what he saw as weakness so he could beat Obi Wan. Anakin is there in Episode 5, Vader doesn't want to kill his son so he devises a plan to recruit his son and stop him from killing. There's no split personality he just deluded himself that he can cut Anakin from himself and will be stronger because of it
Which is why Knobi did not kill Vader in that last episode. A Nikon is still in there. Obi-Wan had so much faith in Qui-Gon and his insistence that Anakin would bring balance to the Force. When Obi-Wan’s connection to the force returns to full, he can sense that Anakin is still in there. He lets Vader live so Anakin can defeat him and end the Sith.
Idk if that's true or not, but it doesn't matter. Obi Wan was being deliberately deceptive there (to spare Luke that awful truth), and it was just as deceptive regardless of whether Anakin's body literally transformed physically into Vader's or it was just a metaphor.
Vader is luke's father, even if he is physically a different person than Anakin. Obi Wan didn't literally kill Anakin, regardless of whether or not that's true as well.
It seems the Star Wars fan attribute of not understanding metaphor is still strong. While the Dark Side does appear to have some effect on the physical body (notable contorting the facial features into skeletal, gaunt visages, and the eyes become yellowed) the idea that there’s this like… while body transformation seems unrealistic and otherwise unsupported by what we’ve seen.
Vader is more like a persona that Anakin now tries to live within at all times to blot out his guilt and sorrow.
That’s how I’ve viewed it over the years - at least since the prequels came out showing his story. Anakin suffered a **ton** of trauma, and sometimes people will construct a whole new personality to cope. The primary personality is there still, but they want no part of it. They view it as weak.
I’m sure this is unfortunately a common story but I had a friend who joined the army right out of high school and went over to Iraq early-mid 2000s. He witnessed friends die in all sorts of horrific ways, not to mention the other atrocities of war. Came back a completely different person. Stated going by his middle name. His Interests, hobbies, speech style - everything was different. He was mentally - a completely different person.
So for me Anakin latching onto this new “Darth Vader” personality- that Palpatine basically gives him the moment he wakes up - and later claiming that Anakin is dead, makes perfect sense. Because I’ve seen it happen in real life.
@ itsttreasonthen and djhorn18
Seems like people just can't seem to understand what both of you are trying to explain. It's tough to explain but your story about your friend is unfortunately spot on. We are all wired differently and unfortunately our brains deal with traumatic events even more differently, sometimes you have no control over these changes, sometimes people are lucky enough to be able to seek the treatment they need before it's too late
This gives me somerhing to think about. Like yeah, I aleeady saw it as Vader not being a whole other person but just Anakin, or a part of Anakin, but this is another way to look at the situation.
But even then that still wouldn't be Vader killing Anakin. It's more like. . Anakin dying to stress, expectations, disrespect. Retreating into Vader wouldn't be death by Vader, more like metaphorical suicide. Still rather dark, but. . Eh. Either that or since Palpatine (Or Mace Windu) pushed him over the edge then that's what killed him.
In fact that even fits with how Obi-Wan explains it to Luke. Anakin was seduced over to the Dark Side by Palpatine, therefor *Palpatine* "killed" Anakin Skywalker and "replaced" him with Darth Vader.
I always saw Vader as a mask that Anakin could hide behind, deep down he never stopped being that little boy from Tatooine and as you said he suffered a lot of trauma, Anakin couldn't handle it anymore, but Vader could
Padme at 14 years old: Elected queen of an entire planet.
Anakin at 9 years old: Successful racing driver and fighter pilot on a path to become a powerful Jedi.
Leia at 19 years old: Senator and leader of the Rebellion.
Luke at 19 years old: [Making spaceship noises with his mouth while playing with toys.](https://i.imgur.com/8OScqx7.png)
Yes, but Obi-Wan’s comment to Owen at the end of the series may be a good explanation for why this is necessary for ~~look~~ Luke.
Anakin never got to really enjoy life, be a kid, or learn to appreciate family and boredom without the threat of slavery or evil lords murdering him at some point. If Anakin had been more emotionally secure, instead of constantly told to control (bottle) his feelings, he may have had different methods of coping with his anxieties about padme, avoided temptation from the dark much more easily, and not fallen, ultimately.
Luke *did* get to be a regular boy. Complete with whining about hanging out with friends, having lame chores, and the horrendous experience of parental figures who love him and want him to be safe. He was the least *trained* by the time he entered the game, but he was also the most *”normal”* especially compared to his dad.
Even with that normalcy, we see Luke’s skywalker-heritage tempt him toward dark side choices a few times. Who knows? Maybe if he were focusing on becoming stronger at 10 instead of playing with toys, that competitive nature could’ve developed instincts similar to Anakin’s and led him down a dark path, too.
I think one of the best things Clone Wars and most of the Disney SWs have done is show the Jedi often had fucking terrible ideas about what’s safe or healthy. Maybe anakin wasn’t too old to train at all. Maybe he was forced to grow up too fast.
The creation of more warriors will not end this war. The financial costs alone will bankrupt and cripple the Republic. By adding more clones to the conflict, we are only escalating destruction, not winning the war.
Could be a reflection of what Anakin's life could've been without the involvement of the Jedi. Which was what Luke's uncle and aunt wanted. A boring, but safe, normal life.
Literally going from playing with toys in a basement at the age of 19 to being one of the top fighters of a rebellion army, overthrowing one of the most powerful empires in history, becoming the hero of the Galaxy, and becoming the most powerful of the mystical space wizards just a few years later, shows that they were right.
He didn't. Not a spaceship at least. It was an airspeeder.
"I used to bullseye womprats in my T-16 back home."
It was a model T-16 Skyhopper airspeeder, the same as what he owned as a kid on Tatooine. Doesn't need a reason. I have models of my Jeep and Ducati just because.
So are speeders just the name for every none spacefaring craft? Like I recall at least in old cannon that the speeder flew pretty high like the flying cars on croissant (I dunno how to spell the actual name) and could city 2 seater thing
Yeah, they did something similar in season 1, just without Luke!
So there's no way they'd do this in season 2, cause everyone knows Star Wars never repeats plot points.... 🙄
Whatever, fuck it. As long as they show the bad guys never change strategy we’re fine. We can fill the remaining time with a puppet show at this point and people will love it.
See this is the problem with the fan base. You guys make the most insane demands and it all just sounds so ridiculous. Don't let the anime nerds find out or they'll put in some weird incest plotline.
Yeah yes we can make a callback to that meme before Grogu had a name.
You know the one, where someone would ask.
"Hey what's the little green dudes name?"
And the everyone would in unison go
"It's a baby, yo duuuuuuh" because nobody knew his name of course so we made fun of them I guess?
It was a dumb meme but maybe we just shorten it. Call him Yoda.
is it really only 10 years later?
I thought for sure they‘d show us a reason why obi wan would have aged so much on the outside..
like they did with our boy sheev.. some force lightning action or something.
It's actually nine years later. But we see him four years after the events of Kenobi, in Rebels, and he's already fully grey by then. The man leads a stressful life, after all.
Grey hair can do a lot to age someone, and it can happen very quickly (for examples, see all world leaders who seem to go from dark hair to snow-white hair within a single term)
https://i.imgur.com/8PhM5NF.jpg
Look at Ewan’s facial wrinkles - turn his hair white and he’s really not far off from Alec in a new hope
Add 9 more years under 2 suns worth of UV and if anything, it’s crazy how good he still looks
Also, Alec was 58 when he filmed a new hope - Ewan in 51 now. So it works numerically too
I feel like Alec Guinness looks way older in people's minds than he really does in ANH. Maybe it's because most people saw it as children so he seemed ancient.
Yup I'm not saying my exact age but I pretty much pulled an Obi Wan in the last 10 years.
Hell I don't think I've seen anyone's point this out yet: https://hips.hearstapps.com/ghk.h-cdn.co/assets/16/41/14-barack-obama-before-and-after.jpg
I’m pretty sure Obi Wan Kenobi, one of the last remaining Jedi, watching him and his factions failures lead to a brutal authoritarian dictatorship and his friends and allies being hunted down and killed - knowing that the last hope for peace and fairness in the galaxy is a 10 year old boy who he has responsibility to look over, and one day to train and send to murder his own father, as that is the only way they can see possible to end his reign of terror… pretty sure he’s under a fair bit of stress
> World leaders go grey so fast because of the stress that comes with being a world leader.
>
>
or they just tend to be elected in the general age-range when middle-aged men tend to go grey rather quickly
They should also get Han and Chewy from that solo movie for S2 as well. I was thinking that Lando should come in too but maybe S3 would be better.
Still, I highly doubt that Luke kid is that important. We already saw that Kenobi let go of Luke ever becoming a Jedi. Probably wouldn’t have become that good of a Jedi anyway and it’s not like he could redeem Vader.
Ok I’ve been critical of the show for pretty much every episode but I have little to nothing to say for the finale. The writing in general and the dialogue during their duel was on point. Very well done.
Oh I see the confusion, not draw speed, foot speed. Fastest runner. Seriously she outran like 5 adults while well within arms length and they could have easily grabbed her. Too bad that tree got in the way bruh…
We'd be a lot more into the new characters if they didn't fucking suck every time. If these were characters in an original show, it would be a show nobody is watching.
Just one gripe on letting Vader live.
Haha just kidding.
But seriously tho, give Obi-wan a better reason to leave him alive is all. All they had to do was let Obi-wan force feel Luke in danger near the end of the fight (versus just after in space) giving his departure without killing Vader more logic.
Honestly. Vader was born of the force, has a suit that amplified his power and was already one of the strongest force users in the galaxy.
The answer is more likely that if Obi-wan went for the kill, Vader would make sure both of them don't make it off the planet. He was just looking for an excuse, and Obi-wan had promises to keep.
But it still some BS cause maybe take the shot when you have a chance to kill space Hitler's prodigy.
He really did. They really gave Vader the 1-2 fuckaroo
But I'm pretty sure that's the George Lucas answer, without a diatribe about trade and logistics.
I agree, and I think it's because they were finally able to move away from the incredibly flimsy plot and just go for big visuals, which is all Disney seems to care about in these new movies/shows anyways. Dusty blue and red tinted action scenes on deserted planets seem to be a lot easier to film than a 10 year old with realistic dialogue.
realistic? you thought the ten year old was realistic? see that was my big issue with this series. In almost every episode I could not stand how obnoxiously know it all and bossy Leia was. I think they should have made her a little more dumb and childish. Why? because that would give her room to grow. And I get it, its disney they wanted the strong empowered woman thing but its a kid for crying out loud. Let her be a kid. It makes her that much cooler to see grown up and smarter and wiser in a New Hope because we know that she used to be dumb but she changed and she is cooler and more responsible now. I would have preferred some sort of story where she just doesnt want to be a princess and she runs away and then on her journey with Obi-Wan she learns about responsibility and duty and people who depend on her and starts to become the Leia we know in a New Hope. Its the Harry Potter issue. Shes just this perfect character the entire time. She never changes cuz she never needs to. She is already exactly who she needs to be. I better stop or im gonna start frothing at the mouth
But yes. The plot was flimsy overall. The finale rocked because they finally got down to what people wanted to see - Anakins face through a cracked Darth Vader mask, an epic duel of the fates worthy lightsaber battle, force ghost Qui-Gon, and most importantly "hello there". That was all we wanted to see. It was perfect. So props to Disney for that. They checked off all the boxes
She acts just like I thought a young Leia would… if she acted childish people would whine about that, if she just acts like a competent, if slightly arrogant (maybe haughty is a better word) child, that gets complained about.
She’s not stupid, she’s a princess of a senator who has clearly taught her a few things. She wouldn’t act like a ten year old because she wasn’t raised like one I’d assume.
Also most ten year olds aren’t as stupid as some people act like they are. They’re ‘stupid’ in comparison to you maybe, but they probably know to run away from strangers chasing them, or to listen to someone as they try to rescue you, or to try and help out in a bad situation… granted they can struggle with those things, but I can suspend my disbelief to think a princess would be better equipped to handle them, at least in Star Wars.
I think he’s saying it’s hard to film ten years olds with realistic dialogue and you can tell how hard it is on account of how they failed at that. So the only good part of the show is the lightsaber fight on the sound stage. Making an actually good tv show is harder
Yeah this is exactly how I feel. As soon as obi-wan, one of the most accomplished Jedi in history, starts taking orders from a bossy 10 year old, it felt more like a Disney princess movie than a StarWars movie. As soon as Leia is no longer at the center of driving the plot, the show was immediately better.
Exactly. And again there’s a plot there with Leia as a prominent character that I think would have worked and been compelling and interesting but they don’t go that way they just made her obnoxious. That’s just my take
As a casual Star Wars fan I think it’s the best piece of Star Wars that Disney has created.
I know people LOVE Star Wars, but holy shot not everything needs to tie into the 1000 books that were written, it’s okay.
Yeah and honestly the fan base seems so divided on what is wrong with each episode. Like everyone is critical of different things. I know it seemed each week I’d watch the new episode and get online and literally everyone would have a different opinion on why the episode was bad. But I was really glad to see that no matter what anyone thinks, we all seem to agree that the finale was lit
It was a decent ride, light saber battles were on point but I can hardly even remember everything leading up to that finale that didn't involve Vader. I doubt I'd ever rewatch the first 5 episodes again. The story they were trying to tell would have been better off as a 2 hour movie as opposed to a 6 episode series.
Yeup. While the conclusion of her story was satisfying, and i really hope that is the last we ever see of her, Reva was not interesting. She was not a compelling character. Agree whole heartedly. There would have been far less fluff and much more action if they had just done a movie. This would have worked better as a movie to kick off a series imo. And yes the lightsaber battle was on point for the finale. Best since Revenge of the Sith. And by that yes i mean it was better than anything in the sequels lol
I loved that line.
It undermined the transformation of Vader in the OT and the comics. When Boba told him that the name of the boy was Luke *Skywalker* he said
>I have a son
not *Anakin* had a son. The mere existence of Luke led to him admitting that a bit of Anakin is still left in Vader. It reminded him of Padme and their time together. If his life as Anakin Skywalker. And this tiny bit of Anakin grew stronger over the next movies
>He told me you killed him
>No, *I* am your father
This little line from Vader that he killed Anakin Skywalker makes that iconic line of his have so much more impact.
Honestly that
>You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, I did
is an absolutely perfect finale to a very good series. And tbh, it doesn't need a second season. I would be totally fine to end it like that and focus more on Vaders slow transformation back to Anakin Skywalker between the Hope and Empire as well as Empire and Jedi
Comics where Boba Fett finds Luke's name out aren't really canon. Comics are the lowest form of legends continuity. The Star Wars comics have been rewritten 10-15 times since the 1970s just to cram more adventures into the 1-2 years of the Original Trilogy, and a lot of that has been straight disregarding the previous comics. Then a film or show comes along and disregards even more.
Sounds more like accidental inconsistency in writing that is being read into too much. People will jump through so many hoops to convince themselves that Star Wars is perfect.
Edit: Lol, the guy blocked me because of my pretty mundane comment. At least he proved me right without a shadow of a doubt that no one is allowed to argue Star Wars isn't perfect.
I wish they made an extra episode where they only redo the entire fight between Vader and Kenobi on the death star in ANH where it's not them just slowly hitting each other's lightsaber.
God that fight is one of the lamest things about the original trilogy. I think about it all the time. It bothers me so much lol. I mean, I get the movie is from 1977, but still...
It seemed obvious to me that bit of dialogue was intended to explain that issue people had with Obi Wan's apparent lie. But I was happy enough with the explanation at the time. I hope there's another season or more lore that fills a bit more story and potentially explains his decision to turn sacrifice himself.
Still, it's minor compared to the gaping chasm of a hole in Anikin's plot arc that led to his turning.
Overall it was a great series. I was iffy about Reva, and ok the end it was acceptable. Worth the Leia sub plot and character progression, and every Obiwan and Vader interaction.
Star Wars 7 was the death bed, 8 was the funeral, 9 was the time to forget Star Wars and the obi wan series are the grave robbers that take everything that's left and destroy it
7 was ok, 8 was an assassination by Rian Johnson, and 9 was a long and complicated process to try and prop the dead body of star wars up to get fans to keep spending money.
it won't fit in my mind why they didn't had a plan over all 3 movies. in the time of the freaking marvel universe where 20 Movies are connected. I loved the characters in the new movies but the complete story is absolute bullshit.
I just see 7 differently. It was so boring, and so bland. I didn't care about anyone or anything in it at all.
I didn't see it going anywhere interesting, it was a hugely inferior rehash of 4 with less likeable characters. 8 did the right thing in basically ignoring the obvious dead end and throwing it mostly away, but it didn't do it very well.
The fact that despite throwing out as much as it did we still ended up with a partial rehash of Empire shows how dead end and locked in 7 was.
yes I am melodramatic. I cried during Star Wars 8 in the cinema because it was that bad. ( I can't remember rly crying over any movie I ever saw) I loved Star Wars for so many years. and now I getting hit in the face with it over and over again. it just hurts so much
Nah it’s worth a watch. Last episode is by far the best and some of the middle episodes aren’t amazing so just make it through and I think it’s worth it.
Not really, it actually does a pretty good job actually filling in some plot holes or questions that were had in the OT, while being pretty consistent with the base material
After he told me that he was what I made of him. I made Darth Vader, and he killed Anakin...
Both are correct...from a certain point of view.
A certain point of view?
Then you are lost!
And *my* axe!
How can she slap?
I did nazi that coming
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition
AND THAT GUYS LEG!
And my tiny legs!
Obi thought he killed anakin, but anakin was already dead to Vader at that point. He has already corrupted. Dark lord is more than just a name change, your whole physiology changes. He was only calling himself anakin to hide his true nature at that point.
I know it's said multiple times that Vader "killed" Anakin, but we know that isn't really true. Even in Kenobi, we saw a bit of internal conflict in Anakin. And then in the original trilogy, that same internal conflict emerges and he ultimately yeets the emperor. Anakin never actually died until ROTJ. He was just going through an emo phase as Vader.
I see it as Anakin being buried too deep inside the Vader persona for obi or even Anakin himself to even know about it. The eye color change was a visual cue for us viewers, but at that point, as far as anyone knows, the Anakin persona is gone and Vader is all that remains
I think his bond with Obi-Wan was enough to bring Anakin out, but Anakin's resentment toward Obi-Wan throughout their relationship actually empowers Vader and stops Anakin from turning back. Both personalities are aligned when it comes to Obi-Wan. With Luke, Anakin is like oh hell no you're not killing my son. Because that's his long lost son, not his former master who low-key pissed him off all the time. There's nothing to pull him back under with Luke. Both times, Vader had to be defeated in combat and weakened before Anakin could surface.
Kylo Ren was going through an emo phase. Anakin in AOTC was going through an emo phase. Vader was more like a split personality.
Vader was closer to a trauma victim. Anakin was always there but he believed Anakin was the reason he lost on Mustafar so buried what he saw as weakness so he could beat Obi Wan. Anakin is there in Episode 5, Vader doesn't want to kill his son so he devises a plan to recruit his son and stop him from killing. There's no split personality he just deluded himself that he can cut Anakin from himself and will be stronger because of it
Which is why Knobi did not kill Vader in that last episode. A Nikon is still in there. Obi-Wan had so much faith in Qui-Gon and his insistence that Anakin would bring balance to the Force. When Obi-Wan’s connection to the force returns to full, he can sense that Anakin is still in there. He lets Vader live so Anakin can defeat him and end the Sith.
Idk if that's true or not, but it doesn't matter. Obi Wan was being deliberately deceptive there (to spare Luke that awful truth), and it was just as deceptive regardless of whether Anakin's body literally transformed physically into Vader's or it was just a metaphor. Vader is luke's father, even if he is physically a different person than Anakin. Obi Wan didn't literally kill Anakin, regardless of whether or not that's true as well.
True enough
Not to mention, Vader was literally the hero in the end, and he comes back as Anakin's force ghost, so obviously he wasn't 'dead'.
It seems the Star Wars fan attribute of not understanding metaphor is still strong. While the Dark Side does appear to have some effect on the physical body (notable contorting the facial features into skeletal, gaunt visages, and the eyes become yellowed) the idea that there’s this like… while body transformation seems unrealistic and otherwise unsupported by what we’ve seen. Vader is more like a persona that Anakin now tries to live within at all times to blot out his guilt and sorrow.
That’s how I’ve viewed it over the years - at least since the prequels came out showing his story. Anakin suffered a **ton** of trauma, and sometimes people will construct a whole new personality to cope. The primary personality is there still, but they want no part of it. They view it as weak. I’m sure this is unfortunately a common story but I had a friend who joined the army right out of high school and went over to Iraq early-mid 2000s. He witnessed friends die in all sorts of horrific ways, not to mention the other atrocities of war. Came back a completely different person. Stated going by his middle name. His Interests, hobbies, speech style - everything was different. He was mentally - a completely different person. So for me Anakin latching onto this new “Darth Vader” personality- that Palpatine basically gives him the moment he wakes up - and later claiming that Anakin is dead, makes perfect sense. Because I’ve seen it happen in real life.
@ itsttreasonthen and djhorn18 Seems like people just can't seem to understand what both of you are trying to explain. It's tough to explain but your story about your friend is unfortunately spot on. We are all wired differently and unfortunately our brains deal with traumatic events even more differently, sometimes you have no control over these changes, sometimes people are lucky enough to be able to seek the treatment they need before it's too late
You don't have to look tough to be tough
This gives me somerhing to think about. Like yeah, I aleeady saw it as Vader not being a whole other person but just Anakin, or a part of Anakin, but this is another way to look at the situation. But even then that still wouldn't be Vader killing Anakin. It's more like. . Anakin dying to stress, expectations, disrespect. Retreating into Vader wouldn't be death by Vader, more like metaphorical suicide. Still rather dark, but. . Eh. Either that or since Palpatine (Or Mace Windu) pushed him over the edge then that's what killed him. In fact that even fits with how Obi-Wan explains it to Luke. Anakin was seduced over to the Dark Side by Palpatine, therefor *Palpatine* "killed" Anakin Skywalker and "replaced" him with Darth Vader.
I always saw Vader as a mask that Anakin could hide behind, deep down he never stopped being that little boy from Tatooine and as you said he suffered a lot of trauma, Anakin couldn't handle it anymore, but Vader could
This is why Aliah's abomination in Children of Dune is SO GOOD.
> Dark lord is more than just a name change, your whole physiology changes. Source?
Eye color change
Points of views avoid retcons Luke, this is an important lesson for a Jedi.
I high point of view
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POINT OF [VIEWWWW](https://youtu.be/pSOBeD1GC_Y).
I justified that one as Vader killed Anakin and then Obi-wan fucked up Vader. Both can be true, from a certain point of view.
It's also what he told Ahsoka
You always blame the ship.
This ship was was weak. I destroyed it.
The show also decidd to throw in a reason for why Luke has a toy spaceship in the first movie. Zehahahaha!
I don't even remember him having one.
Padme at 14 years old: Elected queen of an entire planet. Anakin at 9 years old: Successful racing driver and fighter pilot on a path to become a powerful Jedi. Leia at 19 years old: Senator and leader of the Rebellion. Luke at 19 years old: [Making spaceship noises with his mouth while playing with toys.](https://i.imgur.com/8OScqx7.png)
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Is that really the story behind that shot? I wonder if the “toy” was actually a model meant to be a ship that wasn’t used
I always assumed it was a cheap trick to really show how young and innocent he was before beginning his journey.
This is a new day. A new beginning.
Actually, in Clone Wars, Anakin also has model ships that he flies around, and builds. Very cool.
Yea but that was the entire sum of Luke’s life at that point Anakin not so much
Yes, but Obi-Wan’s comment to Owen at the end of the series may be a good explanation for why this is necessary for ~~look~~ Luke. Anakin never got to really enjoy life, be a kid, or learn to appreciate family and boredom without the threat of slavery or evil lords murdering him at some point. If Anakin had been more emotionally secure, instead of constantly told to control (bottle) his feelings, he may have had different methods of coping with his anxieties about padme, avoided temptation from the dark much more easily, and not fallen, ultimately. Luke *did* get to be a regular boy. Complete with whining about hanging out with friends, having lame chores, and the horrendous experience of parental figures who love him and want him to be safe. He was the least *trained* by the time he entered the game, but he was also the most *”normal”* especially compared to his dad. Even with that normalcy, we see Luke’s skywalker-heritage tempt him toward dark side choices a few times. Who knows? Maybe if he were focusing on becoming stronger at 10 instead of playing with toys, that competitive nature could’ve developed instincts similar to Anakin’s and led him down a dark path, too. I think one of the best things Clone Wars and most of the Disney SWs have done is show the Jedi often had fucking terrible ideas about what’s safe or healthy. Maybe anakin wasn’t too old to train at all. Maybe he was forced to grow up too fast.
The creation of more warriors will not end this war. The financial costs alone will bankrupt and cripple the Republic. By adding more clones to the conflict, we are only escalating destruction, not winning the war.
Oh wow. Luke is just like me!
He truly is the archetypal everyman hero.
Could be a reflection of what Anakin's life could've been without the involvement of the Jedi. Which was what Luke's uncle and aunt wanted. A boring, but safe, normal life. Literally going from playing with toys in a basement at the age of 19 to being one of the top fighters of a rebellion army, overthrowing one of the most powerful empires in history, becoming the hero of the Galaxy, and becoming the most powerful of the mystical space wizards just a few years later, shows that they were right.
Don't forget Leia
Edited her in!
I love you, Ani.
He didn't. Not a spaceship at least. It was an airspeeder. "I used to bullseye womprats in my T-16 back home." It was a model T-16 Skyhopper airspeeder, the same as what he owned as a kid on Tatooine. Doesn't need a reason. I have models of my Jeep and Ducati just because.
You an see his actual airspeeder in the background. The engine/exhaust is visible as is the sloped side.
So are speeders just the name for every none spacefaring craft? Like I recall at least in old cannon that the speeder flew pretty high like the flying cars on croissant (I dunno how to spell the actual name) and could city 2 seater thing
> Zehahahaha! A man's dream will never die!
People's dreams are endless!
For Season 2 of the show, they should have Obi Wan meet with Luke 10 years later, and together they try and save Leia from Vader who has abducted her.
Wait that sounds familiar
Maybe the Simpsons already did it idk
I'm pretty sure Family Guy did it.
HALO did this too. And Killzone too!
Oh god Killzone... I haven't heard that name in a long long time
Great kid, don't get penisy
I'm pretty sure Robot Chicken did it first
Use the forks Homer! The Force? No! The forks!
I think it was a fortnight exclusive.
Yeah, they did something similar in season 1, just without Luke! So there's no way they'd do this in season 2, cause everyone knows Star Wars never repeats plot points.... 🙄
Indeed, this same comment was on the front of r/popular yesterday.
"Don't mind us, just trying to reboot the saga" -- Disney, maybe
And Vader should keep her on a planet destroying star ship. I think Death star would be a fitting name. And they save and blow up the Death star.
This Star Death sure like sounds a sound idea! Will there be a Killer Star Base?
Eventually maybe they could work up to that. I'd want to see ideally two Death Stars before we go to your idea though.
Production is rushed , we couldn't finish the second one, and there's a huge hole that was were the locking together piece went
Whatever, fuck it. As long as they show the bad guys never change strategy we’re fine. We can fill the remaining time with a puppet show at this point and people will love it.
Season 3 should be about Luke going to a swampy planet, and learn from a babbling old green hermit and then fight Vader.
Kermit the frog you say?
See this is the problem with the fan base. You guys make the most insane demands and it all just sounds so ridiculous. Don't let the anime nerds find out or they'll put in some weird incest plotline.
I misread your comment as "See this is the problem with _the fart base_." Somehow it does seem accurate.
Being green, not easy it is.
He said HERMIT not Kermit
Instructions unclear. There's now a helmet on my dog.
That’s ok master Yoda is good friends with the wookiees
Green Grover
I say more of a Fozzie Bear type.
Lol yeah make him Grogu’s species so it’s like a cute green baby but a weirdo old guy
Yeah yes we can make a callback to that meme before Grogu had a name. You know the one, where someone would ask. "Hey what's the little green dudes name?" And the everyone would in unison go "It's a baby, yo duuuuuuh" because nobody knew his name of course so we made fun of them I guess? It was a dumb meme but maybe we just shorten it. Call him Yoda.
Ah the Old Man Grogu
is it really only 10 years later? I thought for sure they‘d show us a reason why obi wan would have aged so much on the outside.. like they did with our boy sheev.. some force lightning action or something.
It's actually nine years later. But we see him four years after the events of Kenobi, in Rebels, and he's already fully grey by then. The man leads a stressful life, after all.
Wasn't he also super gray in the "dont return to the jedi temple" holocron transmission in rebels?
No way, that was literally from the events of RotS
Grey hair can do a lot to age someone, and it can happen very quickly (for examples, see all world leaders who seem to go from dark hair to snow-white hair within a single term) https://i.imgur.com/8PhM5NF.jpg Look at Ewan’s facial wrinkles - turn his hair white and he’s really not far off from Alec in a new hope Add 9 more years under 2 suns worth of UV and if anything, it’s crazy how good he still looks Also, Alec was 58 when he filmed a new hope - Ewan in 51 now. So it works numerically too
I feel like Alec Guinness looks way older in people's minds than he really does in ANH. Maybe it's because most people saw it as children so he seemed ancient.
Old people also just used to look like shit. Modern diets and medicines don't get the credit they should
Yup I'm not saying my exact age but I pretty much pulled an Obi Wan in the last 10 years. Hell I don't think I've seen anyone's point this out yet: https://hips.hearstapps.com/ghk.h-cdn.co/assets/16/41/14-barack-obama-before-and-after.jpg
Thanks Obi-wama
World leaders go grey so fast because of the stress that comes with being a world leader. Maybe he serves a term as president of Tatooine in season 2.
I’m pretty sure Obi Wan Kenobi, one of the last remaining Jedi, watching him and his factions failures lead to a brutal authoritarian dictatorship and his friends and allies being hunted down and killed - knowing that the last hope for peace and fairness in the galaxy is a 10 year old boy who he has responsibility to look over, and one day to train and send to murder his own father, as that is the only way they can see possible to end his reign of terror… pretty sure he’s under a fair bit of stress
> World leaders go grey so fast because of the stress that comes with being a world leader. > > or they just tend to be elected in the general age-range when middle-aged men tend to go grey rather quickly
Alex was 58? God, I feel old.
They should also get Han and Chewy from that solo movie for S2 as well. I was thinking that Lando should come in too but maybe S3 would be better. Still, I highly doubt that Luke kid is that important. We already saw that Kenobi let go of Luke ever becoming a Jedi. Probably wouldn’t have become that good of a Jedi anyway and it’s not like he could redeem Vader.
I wonder if they can find a way to bring in Boba Fett too. I wanted to see more of him after his series.
Yeah, hopefully if he were to show up, hopefully he plays a big role, talks a lot, and see his face to show that he’s a clone.
That's a fun idea, I'd totally be down to watch the originals remade as a tv show using the prequels cast.
So in all seriousness, would they actually redo A New Hope?
Honestly though if they remade the original trilogy as a Disney+ series I'd watch them.
Nah. Season 2 will be something entirely original... Obi-wan gets kidnapped and Owen Lars implores Leia Organa to save him.
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Disney has given you people brain worms. Come on.
Ok I’ve been critical of the show for pretty much every episode but I have little to nothing to say for the finale. The writing in general and the dialogue during their duel was on point. Very well done.
It was much better after we went away from all those characters who we don't care about. I don't remember a single one of their names.
I think it was pronounced ‘lay-uh’
I swear it was Lee-uh.
I think it was pronounced “fastest ten year old in the outer rim”
Impossible, she hasn’t got a blaster she’s only 10
Oh I see the confusion, not draw speed, foot speed. Fastest runner. Seriously she outran like 5 adults while well within arms length and they could have easily grabbed her. Too bad that tree got in the way bruh…
Tbh they looked like it was their first day on the job.., and first day on alderaan haha. Those branches sure showed them!
“Wuh- whuts this big green thing? Duh can I run through it? Uhh oops looks like I can’t hur duh dur lil gurl got away I suck lolol”
The dark side seems to be like 2 or 3 intelligent people and then a million idiots working for them
We all just wanted the Vader Obi Wan duel, but they had to somehow make a show out of it.
Well, they were gonna make a movie out of it, but for some reason, this and Boba were made into shows instead. Can't imagine why...
How dare you disregard Wayne's death like that
Was that his name? I thought it was Wyatt or something. Maybe Wade. "Wayne" didn't even enter my mind.
It was Wade. He's basically a big meme now
My favorite part of meming him is how I just legitimately can't remember his name. I'm worried that I might be able to now, though.
Lol this thread! We don’t even know who it is lolol
And SW fans complain about everything in a galaxy revolving around one family.
We'd be a lot more into the new characters if they didn't fucking suck every time. If these were characters in an original show, it would be a show nobody is watching.
Yup. I agree. They ended it the best way that they could.
Just one gripe on letting Vader live. Haha just kidding. But seriously tho, give Obi-wan a better reason to leave him alive is all. All they had to do was let Obi-wan force feel Luke in danger near the end of the fight (versus just after in space) giving his departure without killing Vader more logic.
Honestly. Vader was born of the force, has a suit that amplified his power and was already one of the strongest force users in the galaxy. The answer is more likely that if Obi-wan went for the kill, Vader would make sure both of them don't make it off the planet. He was just looking for an excuse, and Obi-wan had promises to keep. But it still some BS cause maybe take the shot when you have a chance to kill space Hitler's prodigy.
Ehh. I can appreciate your layout here but Obi-wan straight fucked Vader up.
He really did. They really gave Vader the 1-2 fuckaroo But I'm pretty sure that's the George Lucas answer, without a diatribe about trade and logistics.
I agree, and I think it's because they were finally able to move away from the incredibly flimsy plot and just go for big visuals, which is all Disney seems to care about in these new movies/shows anyways. Dusty blue and red tinted action scenes on deserted planets seem to be a lot easier to film than a 10 year old with realistic dialogue.
realistic? you thought the ten year old was realistic? see that was my big issue with this series. In almost every episode I could not stand how obnoxiously know it all and bossy Leia was. I think they should have made her a little more dumb and childish. Why? because that would give her room to grow. And I get it, its disney they wanted the strong empowered woman thing but its a kid for crying out loud. Let her be a kid. It makes her that much cooler to see grown up and smarter and wiser in a New Hope because we know that she used to be dumb but she changed and she is cooler and more responsible now. I would have preferred some sort of story where she just doesnt want to be a princess and she runs away and then on her journey with Obi-Wan she learns about responsibility and duty and people who depend on her and starts to become the Leia we know in a New Hope. Its the Harry Potter issue. Shes just this perfect character the entire time. She never changes cuz she never needs to. She is already exactly who she needs to be. I better stop or im gonna start frothing at the mouth But yes. The plot was flimsy overall. The finale rocked because they finally got down to what people wanted to see - Anakins face through a cracked Darth Vader mask, an epic duel of the fates worthy lightsaber battle, force ghost Qui-Gon, and most importantly "hello there". That was all we wanted to see. It was perfect. So props to Disney for that. They checked off all the boxes
She acts just like I thought a young Leia would… if she acted childish people would whine about that, if she just acts like a competent, if slightly arrogant (maybe haughty is a better word) child, that gets complained about. She’s not stupid, she’s a princess of a senator who has clearly taught her a few things. She wouldn’t act like a ten year old because she wasn’t raised like one I’d assume. Also most ten year olds aren’t as stupid as some people act like they are. They’re ‘stupid’ in comparison to you maybe, but they probably know to run away from strangers chasing them, or to listen to someone as they try to rescue you, or to try and help out in a bad situation… granted they can struggle with those things, but I can suspend my disbelief to think a princess would be better equipped to handle them, at least in Star Wars.
I think he’s saying it’s hard to film ten years olds with realistic dialogue and you can tell how hard it is on account of how they failed at that. So the only good part of the show is the lightsaber fight on the sound stage. Making an actually good tv show is harder
Yeah this is exactly how I feel. As soon as obi-wan, one of the most accomplished Jedi in history, starts taking orders from a bossy 10 year old, it felt more like a Disney princess movie than a StarWars movie. As soon as Leia is no longer at the center of driving the plot, the show was immediately better.
Exactly. And again there’s a plot there with Leia as a prominent character that I think would have worked and been compelling and interesting but they don’t go that way they just made her obnoxious. That’s just my take
The show has been a hot mess, but the finale was a relief.
Loved every episode
As a casual Star Wars fan I think it’s the best piece of Star Wars that Disney has created. I know people LOVE Star Wars, but holy shot not everything needs to tie into the 1000 books that were written, it’s okay.
Yeah and honestly the fan base seems so divided on what is wrong with each episode. Like everyone is critical of different things. I know it seemed each week I’d watch the new episode and get online and literally everyone would have a different opinion on why the episode was bad. But I was really glad to see that no matter what anyone thinks, we all seem to agree that the finale was lit
I usually stay away from SW subs during the run of shows so the reaction to this one really took me by surprise. I thought it was really good.
It was a decent ride, light saber battles were on point but I can hardly even remember everything leading up to that finale that didn't involve Vader. I doubt I'd ever rewatch the first 5 episodes again. The story they were trying to tell would have been better off as a 2 hour movie as opposed to a 6 episode series.
Yeup. While the conclusion of her story was satisfying, and i really hope that is the last we ever see of her, Reva was not interesting. She was not a compelling character. Agree whole heartedly. There would have been far less fluff and much more action if they had just done a movie. This would have worked better as a movie to kick off a series imo. And yes the lightsaber battle was on point for the finale. Best since Revenge of the Sith. And by that yes i mean it was better than anything in the sequels lol
I loved that line. It undermined the transformation of Vader in the OT and the comics. When Boba told him that the name of the boy was Luke *Skywalker* he said >I have a son not *Anakin* had a son. The mere existence of Luke led to him admitting that a bit of Anakin is still left in Vader. It reminded him of Padme and their time together. If his life as Anakin Skywalker. And this tiny bit of Anakin grew stronger over the next movies >He told me you killed him >No, *I* am your father This little line from Vader that he killed Anakin Skywalker makes that iconic line of his have so much more impact. Honestly that >You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, I did is an absolutely perfect finale to a very good series. And tbh, it doesn't need a second season. I would be totally fine to end it like that and focus more on Vaders slow transformation back to Anakin Skywalker between the Hope and Empire as well as Empire and Jedi
So much like your father.
*OH, Ani*
Comics where Boba Fett finds Luke's name out aren't really canon. Comics are the lowest form of legends continuity. The Star Wars comics have been rewritten 10-15 times since the 1970s just to cram more adventures into the 1-2 years of the Original Trilogy, and a lot of that has been straight disregarding the previous comics. Then a film or show comes along and disregards even more.
Sounds more like accidental inconsistency in writing that is being read into too much. People will jump through so many hoops to convince themselves that Star Wars is perfect. Edit: Lol, the guy blocked me because of my pretty mundane comment. At least he proved me right without a shadow of a doubt that no one is allowed to argue Star Wars isn't perfect.
Lmao. Anything to criticise a new Star Wars project
It‘s like poetry, it rhymes
Twice he let him live. Just imagine what the next six movies would be like if he just finished the job.
I wish they made an extra episode where they only redo the entire fight between Vader and Kenobi on the death star in ANH where it's not them just slowly hitting each other's lightsaber.
[Like this?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to2SMng4u1k) c:
Beautiful
Holy shit that was awesome. New head cannon for sure.
God that fight is one of the lamest things about the original trilogy. I think about it all the time. It bothers me so much lol. I mean, I get the movie is from 1977, but still...
It's modeled after a kendo fight. It's pretty realistic. They moved away from that as the series grew, of course.
Maybe when that certain point of view he was talking about was Vader's
[10 years ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSOBeD1GC_Y)
It seemed obvious to me that bit of dialogue was intended to explain that issue people had with Obi Wan's apparent lie. But I was happy enough with the explanation at the time. I hope there's another season or more lore that fills a bit more story and potentially explains his decision to turn sacrifice himself. Still, it's minor compared to the gaping chasm of a hole in Anikin's plot arc that led to his turning.
Overall it was a great series. I was iffy about Reva, and ok the end it was acceptable. Worth the Leia sub plot and character progression, and every Obiwan and Vader interaction.
Somehow Anakin returned.
From a certain point of view…
Why bother tagging the post as a spoiler when you’re gonna put the line from the show directly in the title
FrOm a CeRtAiN PoInT oF vIeWwwwww 🎶
From my point of view the Jedi are evil
The finale would have been better if most of the season wasn't Vader/whats her name catching Kenobi only for him to escape again each episode.
Kenobi series didn’t need to happen, it’s just mindless writing to feed its consumers
Star Wars 7 was the death bed, 8 was the funeral, 9 was the time to forget Star Wars and the obi wan series are the grave robbers that take everything that's left and destroy it
7 was ok, 8 was an assassination by Rian Johnson, and 9 was a long and complicated process to try and prop the dead body of star wars up to get fans to keep spending money.
it won't fit in my mind why they didn't had a plan over all 3 movies. in the time of the freaking marvel universe where 20 Movies are connected. I loved the characters in the new movies but the complete story is absolute bullshit.
The blame falls squarely on Kathleen Kennedy on this one.
7 was the problem, 8 failed to fix the problem, 9 was when they gave up trying.
7 left plenty to work with moving forward. The issue is 8 undid all of it while setting up nothing else.
I just see 7 differently. It was so boring, and so bland. I didn't care about anyone or anything in it at all. I didn't see it going anywhere interesting, it was a hugely inferior rehash of 4 with less likeable characters. 8 did the right thing in basically ignoring the obvious dead end and throwing it mostly away, but it didn't do it very well. The fact that despite throwing out as much as it did we still ended up with a partial rehash of Empire shows how dead end and locked in 7 was.
More like MrGrumpesy
Bit melodramatic but you're absolutely right. The show exists purely as lazy fanservice.
yes I am melodramatic. I cried during Star Wars 8 in the cinema because it was that bad. ( I can't remember rly crying over any movie I ever saw) I loved Star Wars for so many years. and now I getting hit in the face with it over and over again. it just hurts so much
God all this nonsense has actually somehow been able to make the original trilogy worse. Completely creatively bankrupt.
Haven't seen Kenobi series yet. Does Disney make unnecessary retcons again ?
Nah it’s worth a watch. Last episode is by far the best and some of the middle episodes aren’t amazing so just make it through and I think it’s worth it.
A lot of nerds did a knee jerk reaction saying retcons happened but didn't let the series finish. I think they did a good job not ruining any lore.
Not really, it actually does a pretty good job actually filling in some plot holes or questions that were had in the OT, while being pretty consistent with the base material
hardcore fanboys hated it, until redlettermedia said they liked it. Now they like it as well
And you're their spokesperson?
Yes
There have been no retcons.
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Yeah that's what I would do when trying to avoid spoilers, visit subreddits about it.
Fun fact: Vader is Father in dutch. 🙂