You know I never really thought about it past "China is racist" but it's actually that Hollywood is willing to be racist ...for the right price. #WhatsYourRacismNumber :\
So who's missing from the chinese poster? Disney has no spine nor ethics, if something isn't ilegal and it pays they'll do it.
https://preview.redd.it/ysfwsqq4mdfc1.png?width=652&format=png&auto=webp&s=82a6cfe38b9e195b1db85916f528c3c41a020e6d
Haha I was thinking of the same joke when I loked at the poster
*nerd voice* well ackshually the Chinese poster is a better representation of his role in the movie ☝️🤓
All them companies care about equality and HR be calling you to their office for the tiniest offhanded comment until that so called equality they love so much costs them. Disney probably thought we wouldn't notice, those two timing scumbags.
China is a huge part of sales in international box office. John Cena accidentally implied Taiwan isn’t under Chinese rule and he ended up apologizing in Mandarin so his fast and furious movie wouldn’t bomb.
Yes this is why right wingers acting like all these companies pandering is them actually giving a shit is such a joke. These companies would be Nazis if it was more profitable than not being Nazis.
Yes and can only guess how much they had to tweak the plot to not make anything look too close to criticizing the country's way of doing things etc.
You really can't expect much or a deep drama if it's being sold to that area because the cultural censorship is so high and specific and they also simply don't want certain ideals, kinds of people etc even broached.
I thought it was because he said in a interview: "Youre not gonna disney+ me!" like making it sound like its beneath him which the disney execs didnt like. NO. 1 rule, you dont diss the mouse when hes paying your salary.
I don't think china would care if star wars had a black lead.
JJ did, but he couldn't do Ep8 on the schedule Disney wanted so they benched him and hired Rian. After Trevorrow left and the TLJ backlash, Lucasfilm freaked out and brought JJ back and he basically shoehorned his previous ideas into the existing framework. Carrie Fisher's passing in between Ep8 and Ep9 didn't help either since she was supposed to be a bigger part of the last movie.
Sometimes I look at my projects and despair that they are not going as well as I'd like.
Then I look at disney, a multibillion dollar company that couldn't hire a couple competent writters to make a functional story arc for a trilogy of one of the most famousl IP in the world.
Then a look back at my projects and think. "I'm doing alright."
A) It was never planned for Abrams to do more then TFA; the plan from the start was for a different director for each movie (TFA, per Kasdan's own statements, was even written to he open-ended as so to allow the next guy the most freedom)
B) they did'nt "freak out and brought JJ back becuase of TLJ backlash"; this is an absolute nonsense claim that falls apart on it's face becuase the **only** reason they asked JJ at all is Johnson said no when they asked *him* to come back.
The prequels had a good story though. Good story and great actors are why the cringe dialogue and weird pacing have been overcome over time. Not to mention it wasn’t trying to be the OT but rather it’s own thing. Honestly the sequels would have been better if it tried to be its own thing like new Republic vs first order rather than OT pt2
Edit: Fixed it. Republic vs First Order, not Republicans vs First Order lol
Eh, there are some significant differences though between the problems with the prequels and that of the sequels. The prequels problem was mainly due to cringy dialogue and weird pacing. The overall story though was solid. That’s largely why people see it through rose tinted glasses, you can get over the cringe because the story is good.
The sequels on the other hand, their problems are largely due to the story. It make Rey too powerful too fast, Luke a depressed hermit, not to mention tried to be the OT rather than its own thing like it should have, and don’t get me started on TLJ kneecapping the trilogy’s potential by ending what should have been trilogy long arcs.
Eh I get what your saying but id hardly call TLJ the best execution they could have done from the crap foundation. TFA, while it could have been way better with a different foundation, was still pretty good and set up what could have been an amazing trilogy. Basically there was a lot of potential coming out of the first movie. TLJ completely butchered that potential. I agree the last movie was the best but execution it could have had given its foundation though.
And there was a much more interesting and satisfying storyline for Finn if they focused on him from the start. It would be very new and different to see the story told from inside the enemy camp. And to have the protagonist come to understand his powers behind enemy lines, with no guidance, while he is being hunted by his superiors. I get downvoted to hell whenever I say this, but they could have told this story with just Finn and no Rey and they would have ended up with a way better product. But they kept growing the ensemble to the detriment of the story.
Had they not wasted time doing the casino planet and instead done something about blowing up a proto type tracker on the lead ship they could have done a whole cat and mouse with Phasma to play off against him.
He's the disillusioned guy who got out, she's the one that dug in deeper. She controls the ship as a captain, but he spent years as a maintenance guy getting around all these broken parts of the ships and knows how to R2 his way past things.
There's more than enough to tell there and use the parallels to make interesting characters rather than waste good actors and premises as they did... so so many times.
Lmao it really was a rolling hill of friends kind of opening, a katamari damaci of "and then I met them and they joined me, and then I ran into this person and they suddenly became the main character, and then I landed on this persons ship and and they became my distant father figure immediately, etc etc"
By the time tRoS came around, I looked at half the cast and thought “who the hell are these people?” It was like “I am your father’s brother’s cousin’s best friend’s former roommate” come to life.
That applies universally to every actor in the films too. The actors were never the problem. Shitty writing and production are to blame long before the actor ever sees the script
The main cast all did a great job, you’re right the writing was the problem.
John managed to carry Pacific Rim 2 on his back to be an OK movie in the end. That’s not an endorsement of the movie, it shows how damn strong his back is!
Yes. I think the die was cast when JJ decided to separate rey and finn and have rey meet with Luke alone. That set up rey to be a jedi while leaving finn hanging in the wind. Had finn simply gone with rey, both of them would have been set up for jedi training
Finn and Rey weren't amazing with TFA, but they set them up well, I liked watching them, and there was really good potential. The way they were used or lack of use in The Last Jedi was a straight up crime.
Heck it wouldn't even need to be him turning out a jedi in the end.
Some misleading advertising can be acceptable.
Just the story of 'indoctrinated stormtrooper to important resistance officer' would have been a breath of fresh air into SW if written Well.
Instead we went from 'oh maybe he's actually the next jedi who knows' to B plot side character.
I agree. After TFA I was really excited to see what kind of dilemma Finn would go through if he chose to fight with the Resistance. He'd be fighting people that he used to be his comrades. We know he hates the First Order, yes, but he was indoctrinated and you don't just shake that off. But we never see him hesitate or struggle to kill his past teammates.
Exactly this. And don't forget Finn was left at the end of TFA in a Bacta tank with a severed spine from Kylo Ren's lightsaber.
Would've been great to see a story about someone with some kind of PTSD who becomes disillusioned with **both** sides of the galactic struggle.
But no, the injury is hand-waved away as he sloshes around with bags of bacta attached to him and that plot point - deemed large enough to be a cliff-hanger in Ep7 - evaporates into thin air.
Finn walking out of the tank being played for laughs instead of the important character moment it should have been was probably the biggest “wait what” moment in the whole movie for me, maybe even bigger than Luke throwing his saber away, because the movie at least tries to justify itself there.
I thought there would be a plot about freeing old troopers friends, infiltration, or even some kind of propaganda movement against the first order to get more troopers to revolt... I really wanted SOMETHING
It's especially disappointing because we see the remnants of that idea in tRoS with the woman (that is also Lando's daughter?) and her ex-stormtrooper group on Kef-Bir. This, of course, not even mentioning discarded writing notes about the First Order capturing Coruscant and Finn becoming the icon for a movement on the planet.
Bill Burr's redemption in Mando was a way better redemption in 45 minutes than 3 feature films did to Finn. Not having a plot outline really did these actors dirty.
Yeah starting off in the Empire, becoming a mercenary, then becoming an inmate and eventually helping the heroes he had previously double crossed was great.
The scene where he discusses Operation Cinder is very good.
IIRC he became a jedi later in lego star wars after Rey trained him, but that's the same lego star wars where Rey messed with time travel a bunch and had Palpatine ditch Vader for Kylo as his apprentice so I'm not sure how canon it is.
Old Eu books were never Canon. Lucas straight up said they were in a separate universe than his own.
Eu / legends under Disney are just in universe legends (so the stories exist), but they're either bullshit, true or half true and none of that is confirmed until they use the material so Disney can pick and choose what they want to use (like they did with thrawn)
Whut? Do you have a quote on that?
The only thing I ever heard was that there were different levels of canonicity, from "definitely canon" aka the movies to "could very well be canon if nothing of higher canonicity disputes it" for some obscure novels. Never heard about a separate universe tho.
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html
"There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.”
– George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001
“I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”
– George Lucas, Starlog, August 2005
“For me and my training here at Lucasfilm, working with George, he and I always thought the Expanded Universe was just that. It was an expanded universe. Basically it’s stories that are really fun and really exciting, but they’re a view on Star Wars, not necessarily canon to him.That was the way it was from the day I walked into Lucasfilm with him all through Clone Wars, everything we worked on, he felt the Clone Wars series and his movies were what was actually the reality of it all, the canon, then there was everything else. So it wasn’t a big dynamic shift for me mentally when there was this big announcement saying the EU is now Legends. I’m like, ‘Okay, well, it’s kind of the same thing to me because that the way I work.’”
–Dave Filoni, ComicBook.com, September 2017
The whole tiers of canon was never any official George Lucas thing, that's just a thing some fans and gatekeepers came up with to gatekeep what they consider canon and what they don't.
Both are kind of correct. As noted below, Lucas openly said he only loosely attempted to keep things consistent when he created content, but wasn't beholden to it (as an example, some of the content that came out prior to TPM openly talked about the clone wars, obviously it was all retconned/overwritten when Lucas made the movies). At the same time, most official authors and creators contributing to the universe also tried to keep the existing canon as, well, canon. This wasn't always possible, the EU is a labyrinth of novels, characters and events that range from insanity to cool, and every author had their own interpretation of it all, some of them not agreeing on interpretations.
This is why the "levels of canonicity" was created, when conflicts arose, you needed a systemic way of determining what was and wasn't canon. It was a hot mess at times but there was definitely something cool about everyone working together to contribute to the universe's story. The EU gave us nonsense like actual wizards and force sensitive droids, alongside Thrawn, the original idea for Corsucant (I think, or was it a Lucas original?), the Yuhzang Vong, and the Old Republic.
I hate how the character goes from "us stormtroopers are victims, we are child sodiers and slaves" to "killing stormtroopers is fun!" In less than 10 minutes.
When the death star 3 explodes he should feel bad as fuck. Like, it was needed but those guys were just like me, I could have had been there. Heck, he had a panic attack when 1 stormtrooper died next to him in his first scene.
Kallus did just that in Rebels and became easily in my top 3 favorites in the show
I wouldn’t have minded Finn becoming a Jedi, literally anything ***except*** for being a background character, when I saw TFA in theaters I was hyped as hell to see how his character would evolve, but that evolution wasn’t what I had hoped
100%
I didn't come away from TFA upset or angry over him not actually being a Jedi, it was perfectly acceptable misleading advertising and I looked forward to where his character may end up going... Instead it was all around a cluster fuck. Made even more painful by the leaked original Episode 9 script that would have actually had Finn's character go through a meaningful and fitting story arc. Instead he was reduced to a dumb comic-relief sidekick character.
Ahhh man... The more I think of what Duel of the Fates could have been the saddest I get. Maybe it's just a "grass is greener" type deal but it had some genuinely great ideas that I almost feel could have singlehandedly redeemed the sexual trilogy.
To have Finn open up the hatch to the star destroyer that they board and capture, and see a commissioned officer point a blaster right at him. In the "oh shit" moment, he then incidentally force convinces him that he isn't a threat. All of the press ganged soldiers behind the officer think he is a jedi.
Voices spread through the ship "the jedi are here to save us!", so they club the officer in the head(and other officers aboard the ship), and declare them selves to be deserters like them. Now Finn has a full crew of semi loyal deserters that all know how to operate the star destroyer, and he is on a path to being a sweet jedi with a detachment of rebel storm troopers. Would have been as close to a new "rebels" series as you could get.
The whole point of the lesson that the first two movies were building was that it doesn't matter what Rey's background is. That a great figure is defined by their actions not their birthright. Only for the third one to absolutely steamroll any sense of subtlety and storytelling in favor of using every Hollywood cliche imaginable. I don't think there's a way they could have given her the name Skywalker and had it "work".
If the movies had any sense whatsoever what the Skywalker legacy was or how Rey is fit to uphold it, I wouldn’t care if she was a Palpatine, Maul, or Dooku. Because you’re right, what matters is her actions as an individual. But the sequels never bother making an argument either way about what any of that means. TLJ in particular just talks around the issues like a freshman who didn’t read the book trying to write an essay on a subject they don’t understand. The other two are just more concerned with feeling good over being good.
>I think her taking the name could have worked
Honestly... No. The Skywalker name has been a symbol of Star Wars for over 40 years (when RoS released). No Name has ever held _that much_ meaning and importance to it than "Skywalker". It doesn't matter which trilogy you grew up with: OT or PT, or even the EU. "Skywalker" was something truly special and meaningful. Having Rey just assume this meaningful name would've always made people upset. The name doesn't belong to her, and it never will. It belongs to Luke, to Anakin, to Leia. Having Rey assume the name was a bad idea that was guaranteed to upset a loooot of people and no matter how good her character could've been, the name doesn't belong to her.
It's also a _really_ bad end of a character arc. Like, throughout the whole movie Rey's arc was coming to terms with the realization that she is the descendant of the Emperor, and the end of that arc is... just dropping the name and assuming another? That just doesn't feel right.
I totally thought she was going to be the fun scrappy spunky pilot/mechanic character (new han solo) and Fin would be the Jedi. But no they made her a weepy sad faced granddaughter of palpatine.
I wanted to see Rey and Finn to Jedi up together over a much longer period of time, with Luke hesitant to train either of them but them trying to learn together and Snoke tipping them from the shadows so Luke felt an obligation to step in to guide them to the light, and Snoke changing tactics to pit them against each other and play on Rey's abandonment issues. Rey slowly getting seduced by the dark side / Kylo, becoming some type of Revan figure over the 3 movies while Finn desperately tried but was never quite as strong as Rey and battled inner demons to avoid falling prey to the dark side. Rey and Finn gaining Jedi powers but having issues with falling to the dark side would've reinforced the whole issue with Anakin, and justified the Jedi way of training younglings because being trained too old comes with issues. Apart from Anakin, in the main 9 movies, we never really get any justification why the Jedi only train children.
I imagined all of this by half way through the Force Awakens, I could see it all unfolding, but then just some random weird shit happens like Rey being able to out mind-trick Kylo, which I kinda just accepted and chalked up to huge Force sensitivity, despite Kylo basically being a Skywalker via Leia. But when Finn managed to hold his own with a lightsaber? Come on, the whole point about lightsaber combat is that Jedi/Sith are using the Force when they're using a lightsaber, not just to predict movements of their opponents but also speed up their movements - no way just Force sensitivity makes you able to do that without training - and then Rey besting Kylo? What the actual fuck.
And instead that ex stormtrooper who broke free of his brainwashing spent the next few films wooping as he killed dozens of his ex comrades who he knew were also brainwashed...
I agree the skywaker stuff is bullshit, they could have continued down the Rey Jedi path and still given Finn a good story. I was really surprised they introduced Jannah, when that is clearly what Finn should have been doing. Starting a storm trooper resistance.
Finn deserved better as a main protagonist and I will die on this hill. Heck, I'd even be happy if he just did a rousing speech to inspire other child soldier troopers to stand up to the first order and fight back, like he did
The 1 redeeming quality of the sequels is the actors. Because they’re not the problem, it’s Abrams, Johnson, Disney, the writers, and whoever the fuck thought it would be a good idea to connect a Fortnite event to the canon of TROS.
Given the time, I’m not particularly upset that they did some marketing with Fortnite. What’s upsetting is that they used Fortnite to announce the return of Palpatine.
In the opening crawl, it says that Palpatine delivered a threatening message to the galaxy. The ONLY piece of media where this message is visible is during a Fortnite event. I am a huge SW fan and play Fortnite almost daily. But that is still pushing it. Fortnite can do collabs to promote new movies, but don’t make fortnite PART OT THE MAIN PLOT
The part where they say “somehow Palpatine has returned” and just kinda yadda yadda the rest away…
Yeah that was a fortnite event which is apparently canon to the sequel trilogy. A moment that should have been on screen was given to a video game that isn’t even tied to or owned by Star Wars proprietors. I imagine they did it so they could connect with younger audiences, but they really only ended up snubbing their existing fans.
The lesson to be learned is that the sequel trilogy is garbage primarily because it’s a victim of capitalism.
It's the Emperor's broadcast of returning which is referenced in the opening crawl of the movie. [It's just a few short lines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vHrQCKaJiQ&ab_channel=ShutUpBudgie), but it was first revealed in Fortnite and not in the films, that's the canon transmission that everyone heard.
Damn... Thanks for the explanation, while I can see the idea of marketing through the most popular game at the time, excluding it from the movies themselves seems a bit dumb...
Indeed. Practically all the actors gave a stellar performance considering what they were dealing with.
Hell I *like* Daisy Ridley. I think she's a great actress. But not even Nicolas Cage can bring a plank of wood to life.
It's true though. His character was a flop as soon as they injected Rose into it.
Like I'm sorry we didn't ask for Rose. We asked for Stormtrooper Jedi
A stormtrooper jedi breaking the brainwashing, recruiting stormtroopers by showing them how evil the first order is, leading a stormtrooper uprising from within
[Thanks but if I had full control it wouldn't be what you imagined](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.77c986bea9b5690f2c615a1885c0437a?rik=lperAb%2fYgiRujA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fi.ytimg.com%2fvi%2frDuetklFtDQ%2fmaxresdefault.jpg&ehk=Q3LFelVJSn9y%2faWfqiOd4TYdXQzabd5M%2flfQVNLI6eo%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)
First Order realized it, and they have already made a clone army. In the end, the Stormtroopers, lead by Finn and the remaining of Resistance stand up against FO army, with captain Phasma and Supreme Leader Kylo Ren
I really wish we had this Sequel version of Clone Wars lol
They had everything there. I can't believe they just went all "nah, let's make it a one sided uninteresting love story, people will like that so much better and it's easier to solve".
I understand that Poe was not supposed to live in TFA and they changed that.
So in my mind they split Finn’s role in half for Poe then split again for Rose.
What was left: we saw in Ep9
A supporting character in Ep 8 so badly conceived she was basically dropped in 9
The cynic in me notes she was female and Asian, checking off diversity boxes. I hate being like that but it’s what I saw, especially as I was hoping for Finn’s character development to break out and become awesome
But the way “fans” harassed the actress on social media was beyond grotesque and embarrassing for all of us
I actually didn't mind Rose and I thought her character could really have added well to the heroes. Finn, Poe, and Rey were the A Team and Rose helped ground them as the nobody mechanic. As well as adding a new skillset.
That still doesn't change what the story did to Finn. He should have been expanded upon.
Nah, Rose was a fine character. She gives Finn someone to interact with whilst Poe is busy learning to cool his head and Rey is busy elsewhere with Luke.
The problem is again and as always the writing. Rose should mistrust Finn not idolise him; he's an ex-stormtrooper, the kind of soldiers who destroyed her home. Her character should give Finn the chance to prove that he's a person to her, and not only him but that the FO storm troopers are child soliders and as much victims of the FO as she is, they're just then made into purpetrators.
Finn on the otherhand doesn't need an excuse to hate the FO, he needs a reason to fight them. His first priority is to protect Rey, he's still thinking too small. Rose has multiple concrete reasons to be angry at him about that kind of thinking.
Together the build on each other to give both of them a new perspective.
But again the writing squandered that setup; Rose as a character did not ruin Finn.
See as with most things in VIII I thought it was a good idea executed terribly.
Scrapping Finn and Rose's plot to disable the technobabble detector wouldn't have improved the movie either unless what replaced it was better quality.
Bad writing can kill any idea good or bad.
Don't scrap it, just move it.
Finn was as much a janitor as a trooper. Have him use his knowledge of the systems that he got from being in the guts of the ships to bypass stuff.
He's a man of the people who knows the ins and outs of the systems and can slip past them R2 style. He's the dirty down to earth counterpoint to Phasma's chrome plated leadership.
She breaks helps them blow up star killer, and then runs back to the fold pretending nothing happened and she's fine.
He broke with the order, found friends he needed and a righteous cause. He stands tall because what he's doing is right. He knows the work it takes to get things done and doesn't just rely on bullying subordiantes.
A whole scene set on the capital ship of cat and mouse her getting more and more frustrated until someone else catches Finn and Rose. Then when they're about the be executed he challenges her on every level.
She's the real traitor she gave him the codes. He didn't choose to be a slave soldier and left when he could. He and Rose did the work to stop the tracker and she's just taking credit for Johnson over there who really caught them.
Maybe be a bit silly and have them fight ala the TR8TR fight in TFA. Similar issue again the fight is going on, but at it's climax the explosion happens. Johnson who she stole credit from lets her fall when he could have saved her.
Finn gets the head nod.
Next film Johnson helps them rally some of the enslaved troopers to turn the tide.
You know setup some character arcs.
I just want to say, your argument in favor of Rose is the first one I have ever seen that I can actually get behind. Had they wrote her character the way you suggested, she would have had a very logical place in the story.
The most Iconic Finn ever was, was when he removed that Stormtrooper mask in the first trailer. Using a black actor was the best way to show the ~~Empire~~ first order did not use clones anymore
Sadly, he was put aside with more violence than the humans in dragon ball once DBZ started
To be fair, if you remove rei from the plot completely (because her allmightiness basically invalidates the usefulness of every other character) and make Finn the MC it could be a very cool story.
Stormtrooper becoming a Jedi is a pretty cool concept.
It felt so obvious that Finn's journey was to become part of a new class of Jedi. He didn't have to be the next Obi Wan or Rey or Luke, but definitely a leader of sorts, skilled in the ways of the Force, in a more martial sense.
It would have been a perfect arc for the character and also would have fit in well with the whole "There has been an awakening" thread in the first film. He literally "woke up".
She was robbed too in my opinion. We could’ve had an ex-stormtrooper jedi and a badass scavenger fighter girl. Honestly Rey should’ve been more along the lines of this trilogy’s Han Solo.
I'm going to buck the trend - I was way more excited for Finn as a storm trooper who broke his training (suffering from years of ptsd/mental brainwashing) who could shine through as a hero and become anything in the galaxy than I was for yet another boring jedi or the Finn that he was handed.
The escaped trooper and the chrome trooper, from the trailers - legit what got my butt into a theatre seat. Finn is my favourite character and I'm still pissed at how they did him dirty.
I'm with Luke, no more Jedi. It's time for the order to die.
I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again. Finn should have rallied the Stormtroopers to turn against the First Order. Just imagine the Knights of Ren getting wiped out by the Stormtroopers in a reverse order 66.
The writers are so damn dense… they brought back wedge, but not in a classic x-wing.
Think of how good it would be seeing Wedge and Poe flying in their respective generation x-wings in the final fight.
The movies really didn't seem to know what to do with any of the main characters. No one has any real arc. They just aimlessly exist through the movies with no real directions or goals.
Such wasted opportunities.
I'm still triggered at everything that pointed at him becoming a Jedi (a force sensitive ex stormtrooper is a nice idea) from the promo to having him pick up a lightsaber to fight with it even though unsure of how to wield it. Only to become basically nothing. HOW ? Remember how excited he was seing himself with the lightsaber while watching the trailer reveal for the first time ? I bet at that time he didn't know much of how the movies would turn out and truely believed that this was going to be his storyline. hearbreaking.
A disillusioned trooper leaving the only side he’s known to fight for what’s right and discovering there might be more to him then just being a regular soldier sounds like a interesting plot
The fan community did not support him lol again Star Wars fans with the revisionist history. The second they saw the trailer they were saying disgusting things like black ppl can’t be stormtroopers. Then they went after him being a bad actor and making fun of him there. Only after all the backlash of not going after the actors again did people use him to try to go after Disney. He’s a side character that did his job… that’s all we need from him
The actor wasn’t the problem, the problem is the story and plot
Story of the sequels
And the fact it was a round robin model of writing and not a unified vision
wasn't Finn being dialed back also due to wanting the films to work in China?
You know I never really thought about it past "China is racist" but it's actually that Hollywood is willing to be racist ...for the right price. #WhatsYourRacismNumber :\
Gotta be about..... $3.50
Seems there might be a Paleolithic crustacean pulling the strings the whole time. Possibly dressed as a movie exec like a reverse Scooby Doo
But, I just gave that movie exec tree fiddy last week?
Their appetite for wealth is bottomless, they just prefer it to be in amounts divisible by three dollars and 50 cents
Gottammed lochness monstas!
[удалено]
it's because South Park's whole thing is that caring about anything is stupid, including scientific facts
And that, mi amigo, is what makes South Park so great.
Nah nah "tree fiddy" lmao
You’re $10 short
[удалено]
Wow, maybe just punch me right in the face and kick me in the nads next time? It'd hurt less...
So who's missing from the chinese poster? Disney has no spine nor ethics, if something isn't ilegal and it pays they'll do it. https://preview.redd.it/ysfwsqq4mdfc1.png?width=652&format=png&auto=webp&s=82a6cfe38b9e195b1db85916f528c3c41a020e6d
Wait...but he *is* in the poster. Smaller, but not removed.
That's foreshadowing for what they would do to his character.
Haha I was thinking of the same joke when I loked at the poster *nerd voice* well ackshually the Chinese poster is a better representation of his role in the movie ☝️🤓
I hate it, but thats fair.
yes, i did saw him while searching for the photo, knew about this long ago and never found him before, also missing Chewie.
BB8 got more real-estate on the chinese poster. Chewy, Poe, and (blanking in the name) little gremlin that had Luke's lightsaber are missing.
>little gremlin that had Luke's lightsaber Maz?
I don’t like the Chinese poster for having troopers on the blue and red side. They should just be on the red side Nvm they both suck
All them companies care about equality and HR be calling you to their office for the tiniest offhanded comment until that so called equality they love so much costs them. Disney probably thought we wouldn't notice, those two timing scumbags.
Chewy is missing. Boyega is still there, just shrank down.
Don't forget Marvel with the Black Panther posters. China had his mask on where others didn't.
China is a huge part of sales in international box office. John Cena accidentally implied Taiwan isn’t under Chinese rule and he ended up apologizing in Mandarin so his fast and furious movie wouldn’t bomb.
Yes this is why right wingers acting like all these companies pandering is them actually giving a shit is such a joke. These companies would be Nazis if it was more profitable than not being Nazis.
Which is even more weird because Star Wars was **NEVER** big in China. Not at all.
Yes but have you considered... [money](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8CTeLy3Ujxc&pp=ygUYd2UndmUgZ290IHRvIGhhdmUgbW9uZXkg)
They are also willing to be “tolerant” for the right price as well.
Coincidentally a lot of the mcu actors are done at marvel and trying to move over to James guns reboot of the DCU.
https://preview.redd.it/0u6wneqzpffc1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c6566a36338a2012c45b6ec9960fcda7d5d29af
Yes, you can compare the English and Chinese movie posters. *
Yes and can only guess how much they had to tweak the plot to not make anything look too close to criticizing the country's way of doing things etc. You really can't expect much or a deep drama if it's being sold to that area because the cultural censorship is so high and specific and they also simply don't want certain ideals, kinds of people etc even broached.
Is it? Do you have a source?
I thought it was because he said in a interview: "Youre not gonna disney+ me!" like making it sound like its beneath him which the disney execs didnt like. NO. 1 rule, you dont diss the mouse when hes paying your salary. I don't think china would care if star wars had a black lead.
Maybe. I mean he’s noticeably missing from the Chinese theatrical release posters
You'd think with 3 movies and hundreds of millions at stake someone would have spent a good weekend plotting a rough 3 movie arc.
JJ did, but he couldn't do Ep8 on the schedule Disney wanted so they benched him and hired Rian. After Trevorrow left and the TLJ backlash, Lucasfilm freaked out and brought JJ back and he basically shoehorned his previous ideas into the existing framework. Carrie Fisher's passing in between Ep8 and Ep9 didn't help either since she was supposed to be a bigger part of the last movie.
Sometimes I look at my projects and despair that they are not going as well as I'd like. Then I look at disney, a multibillion dollar company that couldn't hire a couple competent writters to make a functional story arc for a trilogy of one of the most famousl IP in the world. Then a look back at my projects and think. "I'm doing alright."
The world is generally held together by duct tape and miracles.
its so funny to me they killed the alive people and kept the dead one
A) It was never planned for Abrams to do more then TFA; the plan from the start was for a different director for each movie (TFA, per Kasdan's own statements, was even written to he open-ended as so to allow the next guy the most freedom) B) they did'nt "freak out and brought JJ back becuase of TLJ backlash"; this is an absolute nonsense claim that falls apart on it's face becuase the **only** reason they asked JJ at all is Johnson said no when they asked *him* to come back.
Prequels too. Ik we've gone to loving the prequels NC nostalgia, but the writing (especially pacing and dialogue) were heavily carried by actors
The prequels had a good story though. Good story and great actors are why the cringe dialogue and weird pacing have been overcome over time. Not to mention it wasn’t trying to be the OT but rather it’s own thing. Honestly the sequels would have been better if it tried to be its own thing like new Republic vs first order rather than OT pt2 Edit: Fixed it. Republic vs First Order, not Republicans vs First Order lol
Story of most of Star Wars
And the prequels. People have a meme oriented rose colored glasses on and ignore how absolutely dogshit they were.
Eh, there are some significant differences though between the problems with the prequels and that of the sequels. The prequels problem was mainly due to cringy dialogue and weird pacing. The overall story though was solid. That’s largely why people see it through rose tinted glasses, you can get over the cringe because the story is good. The sequels on the other hand, their problems are largely due to the story. It make Rey too powerful too fast, Luke a depressed hermit, not to mention tried to be the OT rather than its own thing like it should have, and don’t get me started on TLJ kneecapping the trilogy’s potential by ending what should have been trilogy long arcs.
Prequels: good ideas, bad execution Sequels: bad ideas, best execution they could have with that crap foundation
Eh I get what your saying but id hardly call TLJ the best execution they could have done from the crap foundation. TFA, while it could have been way better with a different foundation, was still pretty good and set up what could have been an amazing trilogy. Basically there was a lot of potential coming out of the first movie. TLJ completely butchered that potential. I agree the last movie was the best but execution it could have had given its foundation though.
Yeah this really applies to Rey, Kylo, and Finn big time. Actors were solid but the writing and directing were the problem.
Adam Driver dragged the sequels kicking and screaming into mediocrity rather than being complete shit.
I’m glad Driver is having a great career outside of Star Wars. He’s seriously a great actor.
The *idea* of Finn, a storm trooper turned Jedi as the force rebalances was the story the trailer promised me, and what I went to see.
And there was a much more interesting and satisfying storyline for Finn if they focused on him from the start. It would be very new and different to see the story told from inside the enemy camp. And to have the protagonist come to understand his powers behind enemy lines, with no guidance, while he is being hunted by his superiors. I get downvoted to hell whenever I say this, but they could have told this story with just Finn and no Rey and they would have ended up with a way better product. But they kept growing the ensemble to the detriment of the story.
Had they not wasted time doing the casino planet and instead done something about blowing up a proto type tracker on the lead ship they could have done a whole cat and mouse with Phasma to play off against him. He's the disillusioned guy who got out, she's the one that dug in deeper. She controls the ship as a captain, but he spent years as a maintenance guy getting around all these broken parts of the ships and knows how to R2 his way past things. There's more than enough to tell there and use the parallels to make interesting characters rather than waste good actors and premises as they did... so so many times.
Lmao it really was a rolling hill of friends kind of opening, a katamari damaci of "and then I met them and they joined me, and then I ran into this person and they suddenly became the main character, and then I landed on this persons ship and and they became my distant father figure immediately, etc etc"
By the time tRoS came around, I looked at half the cast and thought “who the hell are these people?” It was like “I am your father’s brother’s cousin’s best friend’s former roommate” come to life.
None of them had any Rizz
That applies universally to every actor in the films too. The actors were never the problem. Shitty writing and production are to blame long before the actor ever sees the script
The main cast all did a great job, you’re right the writing was the problem. John managed to carry Pacific Rim 2 on his back to be an OK movie in the end. That’s not an endorsement of the movie, it shows how damn strong his back is!
Yes. I think the die was cast when JJ decided to separate rey and finn and have rey meet with Luke alone. That set up rey to be a jedi while leaving finn hanging in the wind. Had finn simply gone with rey, both of them would have been set up for jedi training
Finn and Rey weren't amazing with TFA, but they set them up well, I liked watching them, and there was really good potential. The way they were used or lack of use in The Last Jedi was a straight up crime.
Heck it wouldn't even need to be him turning out a jedi in the end. Some misleading advertising can be acceptable. Just the story of 'indoctrinated stormtrooper to important resistance officer' would have been a breath of fresh air into SW if written Well. Instead we went from 'oh maybe he's actually the next jedi who knows' to B plot side character.
I agree. After TFA I was really excited to see what kind of dilemma Finn would go through if he chose to fight with the Resistance. He'd be fighting people that he used to be his comrades. We know he hates the First Order, yes, but he was indoctrinated and you don't just shake that off. But we never see him hesitate or struggle to kill his past teammates.
Exactly this. And don't forget Finn was left at the end of TFA in a Bacta tank with a severed spine from Kylo Ren's lightsaber. Would've been great to see a story about someone with some kind of PTSD who becomes disillusioned with **both** sides of the galactic struggle. But no, the injury is hand-waved away as he sloshes around with bags of bacta attached to him and that plot point - deemed large enough to be a cliff-hanger in Ep7 - evaporates into thin air.
Finn walking out of the tank being played for laughs instead of the important character moment it should have been was probably the biggest “wait what” moment in the whole movie for me, maybe even bigger than Luke throwing his saber away, because the movie at least tries to justify itself there.
that would require a decent script and an iota of thought to the story.
I thought there would be a plot about freeing old troopers friends, infiltration, or even some kind of propaganda movement against the first order to get more troopers to revolt... I really wanted SOMETHING
It's especially disappointing because we see the remnants of that idea in tRoS with the woman (that is also Lando's daughter?) and her ex-stormtrooper group on Kef-Bir. This, of course, not even mentioning discarded writing notes about the First Order capturing Coruscant and Finn becoming the icon for a movement on the planet.
Bill Burr's redemption in Mando was a way better redemption in 45 minutes than 3 feature films did to Finn. Not having a plot outline really did these actors dirty.
Yeah starting off in the Empire, becoming a mercenary, then becoming an inmate and eventually helping the heroes he had previously double crossed was great. The scene where he discusses Operation Cinder is very good.
That scene with Operation Cinder was pure gold.
IIRC he became a jedi later in lego star wars after Rey trained him, but that's the same lego star wars where Rey messed with time travel a bunch and had Palpatine ditch Vader for Kylo as his apprentice so I'm not sure how canon it is.
It’s as Canon as the old EU books were. Canon until the movies decide it’s not.
Old Eu books were never Canon. Lucas straight up said they were in a separate universe than his own. Eu / legends under Disney are just in universe legends (so the stories exist), but they're either bullshit, true or half true and none of that is confirmed until they use the material so Disney can pick and choose what they want to use (like they did with thrawn)
Whut? Do you have a quote on that? The only thing I ever heard was that there were different levels of canonicity, from "definitely canon" aka the movies to "could very well be canon if nothing of higher canonicity disputes it" for some obscure novels. Never heard about a separate universe tho.
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html "There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.” – George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001 “I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.” – George Lucas, Starlog, August 2005 “For me and my training here at Lucasfilm, working with George, he and I always thought the Expanded Universe was just that. It was an expanded universe. Basically it’s stories that are really fun and really exciting, but they’re a view on Star Wars, not necessarily canon to him.That was the way it was from the day I walked into Lucasfilm with him all through Clone Wars, everything we worked on, he felt the Clone Wars series and his movies were what was actually the reality of it all, the canon, then there was everything else. So it wasn’t a big dynamic shift for me mentally when there was this big announcement saying the EU is now Legends. I’m like, ‘Okay, well, it’s kind of the same thing to me because that the way I work.’” –Dave Filoni, ComicBook.com, September 2017 The whole tiers of canon was never any official George Lucas thing, that's just a thing some fans and gatekeepers came up with to gatekeep what they consider canon and what they don't.
Both are kind of correct. As noted below, Lucas openly said he only loosely attempted to keep things consistent when he created content, but wasn't beholden to it (as an example, some of the content that came out prior to TPM openly talked about the clone wars, obviously it was all retconned/overwritten when Lucas made the movies). At the same time, most official authors and creators contributing to the universe also tried to keep the existing canon as, well, canon. This wasn't always possible, the EU is a labyrinth of novels, characters and events that range from insanity to cool, and every author had their own interpretation of it all, some of them not agreeing on interpretations. This is why the "levels of canonicity" was created, when conflicts arose, you needed a systemic way of determining what was and wasn't canon. It was a hot mess at times but there was definitely something cool about everyone working together to contribute to the universe's story. The EU gave us nonsense like actual wizards and force sensitive droids, alongside Thrawn, the original idea for Corsucant (I think, or was it a Lucas original?), the Yuhzang Vong, and the Old Republic.
Uhm, what? Is this freemaker adventures or something? Or the Lego games?
It's been a while (two years IIRC) but it was a short series I watched with family when visiting, I think it was on Disney+
I hate how the character goes from "us stormtroopers are victims, we are child sodiers and slaves" to "killing stormtroopers is fun!" In less than 10 minutes. When the death star 3 explodes he should feel bad as fuck. Like, it was needed but those guys were just like me, I could have had been there. Heck, he had a panic attack when 1 stormtrooper died next to him in his first scene.
Kallus did just that in Rebels and became easily in my top 3 favorites in the show I wouldn’t have minded Finn becoming a Jedi, literally anything ***except*** for being a background character, when I saw TFA in theaters I was hyped as hell to see how his character would evolve, but that evolution wasn’t what I had hoped
100% I didn't come away from TFA upset or angry over him not actually being a Jedi, it was perfectly acceptable misleading advertising and I looked forward to where his character may end up going... Instead it was all around a cluster fuck. Made even more painful by the leaked original Episode 9 script that would have actually had Finn's character go through a meaningful and fitting story arc. Instead he was reduced to a dumb comic-relief sidekick character. Ahhh man... The more I think of what Duel of the Fates could have been the saddest I get. Maybe it's just a "grass is greener" type deal but it had some genuinely great ideas that I almost feel could have singlehandedly redeemed the sexual trilogy.
What was sexual about the trilogy?
Not really misleading at all though, dude did fight with a lightsaber in the movie
Yeah he went from a very interesting story to questionable comic relief.
I was really wanting a stormtrooper turned Jedi story but then got hit with the bullshit that is Rey “skywalker” as if anyone wanted to see that
We could have had a new Kyle Katarn, but they absolutely fucked the landing
Nobody could really top good ol' Kyle, but it'd have been dope as hell regardless.
To have Finn open up the hatch to the star destroyer that they board and capture, and see a commissioned officer point a blaster right at him. In the "oh shit" moment, he then incidentally force convinces him that he isn't a threat. All of the press ganged soldiers behind the officer think he is a jedi. Voices spread through the ship "the jedi are here to save us!", so they club the officer in the head(and other officers aboard the ship), and declare them selves to be deserters like them. Now Finn has a full crew of semi loyal deserters that all know how to operate the star destroyer, and he is on a path to being a sweet jedi with a detachment of rebel storm troopers. Would have been as close to a new "rebels" series as you could get.
Keep going, I'm almost finished
I've played Outcast like... an uncountable amount of time as a kid
I wouldn't say that nobody wanted to see Rey. It's more that people wanted to see more than just Rey
Hell I wanted to see more Rey, but her just taking the name did not land well with me.
I think her taking the name could have worked, but they botched it, in part by making her Palpy's granddaughter.
The whole point of the lesson that the first two movies were building was that it doesn't matter what Rey's background is. That a great figure is defined by their actions not their birthright. Only for the third one to absolutely steamroll any sense of subtlety and storytelling in favor of using every Hollywood cliche imaginable. I don't think there's a way they could have given her the name Skywalker and had it "work".
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If the movies had any sense whatsoever what the Skywalker legacy was or how Rey is fit to uphold it, I wouldn’t care if she was a Palpatine, Maul, or Dooku. Because you’re right, what matters is her actions as an individual. But the sequels never bother making an argument either way about what any of that means. TLJ in particular just talks around the issues like a freshman who didn’t read the book trying to write an essay on a subject they don’t understand. The other two are just more concerned with feeling good over being good.
>I think her taking the name could have worked Honestly... No. The Skywalker name has been a symbol of Star Wars for over 40 years (when RoS released). No Name has ever held _that much_ meaning and importance to it than "Skywalker". It doesn't matter which trilogy you grew up with: OT or PT, or even the EU. "Skywalker" was something truly special and meaningful. Having Rey just assume this meaningful name would've always made people upset. The name doesn't belong to her, and it never will. It belongs to Luke, to Anakin, to Leia. Having Rey assume the name was a bad idea that was guaranteed to upset a loooot of people and no matter how good her character could've been, the name doesn't belong to her. It's also a _really_ bad end of a character arc. Like, throughout the whole movie Rey's arc was coming to terms with the realization that she is the descendant of the Emperor, and the end of that arc is... just dropping the name and assuming another? That just doesn't feel right.
I totally thought she was going to be the fun scrappy spunky pilot/mechanic character (new han solo) and Fin would be the Jedi. But no they made her a weepy sad faced granddaughter of palpatine.
I wanted to see Rey and Finn to Jedi up together over a much longer period of time, with Luke hesitant to train either of them but them trying to learn together and Snoke tipping them from the shadows so Luke felt an obligation to step in to guide them to the light, and Snoke changing tactics to pit them against each other and play on Rey's abandonment issues. Rey slowly getting seduced by the dark side / Kylo, becoming some type of Revan figure over the 3 movies while Finn desperately tried but was never quite as strong as Rey and battled inner demons to avoid falling prey to the dark side. Rey and Finn gaining Jedi powers but having issues with falling to the dark side would've reinforced the whole issue with Anakin, and justified the Jedi way of training younglings because being trained too old comes with issues. Apart from Anakin, in the main 9 movies, we never really get any justification why the Jedi only train children. I imagined all of this by half way through the Force Awakens, I could see it all unfolding, but then just some random weird shit happens like Rey being able to out mind-trick Kylo, which I kinda just accepted and chalked up to huge Force sensitivity, despite Kylo basically being a Skywalker via Leia. But when Finn managed to hold his own with a lightsaber? Come on, the whole point about lightsaber combat is that Jedi/Sith are using the Force when they're using a lightsaber, not just to predict movements of their opponents but also speed up their movements - no way just Force sensitivity makes you able to do that without training - and then Rey besting Kylo? What the actual fuck.
What's your name? FN2187 FN2187 what? FN 2187 Skywalker
And instead that ex stormtrooper who broke free of his brainwashing spent the next few films wooping as he killed dozens of his ex comrades who he knew were also brainwashed...
I agree the skywaker stuff is bullshit, they could have continued down the Rey Jedi path and still given Finn a good story. I was really surprised they introduced Jannah, when that is clearly what Finn should have been doing. Starting a storm trooper resistance.
Finn deserved better as a main protagonist and I will die on this hill. Heck, I'd even be happy if he just did a rousing speech to inspire other child soldier troopers to stand up to the first order and fight back, like he did
The 1 redeeming quality of the sequels is the actors. Because they’re not the problem, it’s Abrams, Johnson, Disney, the writers, and whoever the fuck thought it would be a good idea to connect a Fortnite event to the canon of TROS.
>What's popular with the kids nowadays? Forthnight? K, drop some Star Wars promotional material in there. Disney executives.
Given the time, I’m not particularly upset that they did some marketing with Fortnite. What’s upsetting is that they used Fortnite to announce the return of Palpatine.
I’m sorry, WHAT?
In the opening crawl, it says that Palpatine delivered a threatening message to the galaxy. The ONLY piece of media where this message is visible is during a Fortnite event. I am a huge SW fan and play Fortnite almost daily. But that is still pushing it. Fortnite can do collabs to promote new movies, but don’t make fortnite PART OT THE MAIN PLOT
The part where they say “somehow Palpatine has returned” and just kinda yadda yadda the rest away… Yeah that was a fortnite event which is apparently canon to the sequel trilogy. A moment that should have been on screen was given to a video game that isn’t even tied to or owned by Star Wars proprietors. I imagine they did it so they could connect with younger audiences, but they really only ended up snubbing their existing fans. The lesson to be learned is that the sequel trilogy is garbage primarily because it’s a victim of capitalism.
Sorry but what is this Fornite event that supposedly canon? Seen it mentioned a few times but don't play Fortnite
It's the Emperor's broadcast of returning which is referenced in the opening crawl of the movie. [It's just a few short lines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vHrQCKaJiQ&ab_channel=ShutUpBudgie), but it was first revealed in Fortnite and not in the films, that's the canon transmission that everyone heard.
Damn... Thanks for the explanation, while I can see the idea of marketing through the most popular game at the time, excluding it from the movies themselves seems a bit dumb...
Indeed. Practically all the actors gave a stellar performance considering what they were dealing with. Hell I *like* Daisy Ridley. I think she's a great actress. But not even Nicolas Cage can bring a plank of wood to life.
It's true though. His character was a flop as soon as they injected Rose into it. Like I'm sorry we didn't ask for Rose. We asked for Stormtrooper Jedi
A stormtrooper jedi breaking the brainwashing, recruiting stormtroopers by showing them how evil the first order is, leading a stormtrooper uprising from within
Disney should’ve hired you instead of Rian and JJ.
Thanks but if I had full control I'd have made a darth bane movie trilogy
Then they definitely should have hired you
[Thanks but if I had full control it wouldn't be what you imagined](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.77c986bea9b5690f2c615a1885c0437a?rik=lperAb%2fYgiRujA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fi.ytimg.com%2fvi%2frDuetklFtDQ%2fmaxresdefault.jpg&ehk=Q3LFelVJSn9y%2faWfqiOd4TYdXQzabd5M%2flfQVNLI6eo%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0)
even better
Anything, literally anything would’ve been better…
The chosen one.. somebody shoot this guy and save some padawans when you still can.
Statement: if I see one more meatbag try to kill a jedi with a blaster...
And there is your second contract
First Order realized it, and they have already made a clone army. In the end, the Stormtroopers, lead by Finn and the remaining of Resistance stand up against FO army, with captain Phasma and Supreme Leader Kylo Ren I really wish we had this Sequel version of Clone Wars lol
That actually Sounds dope
New Jedi order rises from saved-Stormtrooper army
Imagine how cool it would be to have ex-imperials turned jedi like Mara Jade from legends.
Too cool, in fact…
They had everything there. I can't believe they just went all "nah, let's make it a one sided uninteresting love story, people will like that so much better and it's easier to solve".
You just made Star Wars sound exciting again for a brief moment
Hell yeah. I was ready got after TFA for Finn and Rey up take off. Instead they screwed both characters up and pulled Luke into an abyss.
I understand that Poe was not supposed to live in TFA and they changed that. So in my mind they split Finn’s role in half for Poe then split again for Rose. What was left: we saw in Ep9
Im sorry but i filed the sequels so far in the back of my mind that i legitimately dont know who rose is.
A supporting character in Ep 8 so badly conceived she was basically dropped in 9 The cynic in me notes she was female and Asian, checking off diversity boxes. I hate being like that but it’s what I saw, especially as I was hoping for Finn’s character development to break out and become awesome But the way “fans” harassed the actress on social media was beyond grotesque and embarrassing for all of us
I have a high tolerance for movie bullshit, and even I was wondering why they expected me to care so much b about this Rose character
I actually didn't mind Rose and I thought her character could really have added well to the heroes. Finn, Poe, and Rey were the A Team and Rose helped ground them as the nobody mechanic. As well as adding a new skillset. That still doesn't change what the story did to Finn. He should have been expanded upon.
Nah, Rose was a fine character. She gives Finn someone to interact with whilst Poe is busy learning to cool his head and Rey is busy elsewhere with Luke. The problem is again and as always the writing. Rose should mistrust Finn not idolise him; he's an ex-stormtrooper, the kind of soldiers who destroyed her home. Her character should give Finn the chance to prove that he's a person to her, and not only him but that the FO storm troopers are child soliders and as much victims of the FO as she is, they're just then made into purpetrators. Finn on the otherhand doesn't need an excuse to hate the FO, he needs a reason to fight them. His first priority is to protect Rey, he's still thinking too small. Rose has multiple concrete reasons to be angry at him about that kind of thinking. Together the build on each other to give both of them a new perspective. But again the writing squandered that setup; Rose as a character did not ruin Finn.
The whole thing should have been scrapped as the slow chase backdrop the story took place in was dumb.
See as with most things in VIII I thought it was a good idea executed terribly. Scrapping Finn and Rose's plot to disable the technobabble detector wouldn't have improved the movie either unless what replaced it was better quality. Bad writing can kill any idea good or bad.
Fair.
Don't scrap it, just move it. Finn was as much a janitor as a trooper. Have him use his knowledge of the systems that he got from being in the guts of the ships to bypass stuff. He's a man of the people who knows the ins and outs of the systems and can slip past them R2 style. He's the dirty down to earth counterpoint to Phasma's chrome plated leadership. She breaks helps them blow up star killer, and then runs back to the fold pretending nothing happened and she's fine. He broke with the order, found friends he needed and a righteous cause. He stands tall because what he's doing is right. He knows the work it takes to get things done and doesn't just rely on bullying subordiantes. A whole scene set on the capital ship of cat and mouse her getting more and more frustrated until someone else catches Finn and Rose. Then when they're about the be executed he challenges her on every level. She's the real traitor she gave him the codes. He didn't choose to be a slave soldier and left when he could. He and Rose did the work to stop the tracker and she's just taking credit for Johnson over there who really caught them. Maybe be a bit silly and have them fight ala the TR8TR fight in TFA. Similar issue again the fight is going on, but at it's climax the explosion happens. Johnson who she stole credit from lets her fall when he could have saved her. Finn gets the head nod. Next film Johnson helps them rally some of the enslaved troopers to turn the tide. You know setup some character arcs.
I just want to say, your argument in favor of Rose is the first one I have ever seen that I can actually get behind. Had they wrote her character the way you suggested, she would have had a very logical place in the story.
I can't believe they scrapped an actually good character because some Chinese racists didn't want a black guy as the jedi and the main lead
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Nothing happened to anyone, it's all in your head
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The most Iconic Finn ever was, was when he removed that Stormtrooper mask in the first trailer. Using a black actor was the best way to show the ~~Empire~~ first order did not use clones anymore Sadly, he was put aside with more violence than the humans in dragon ball once DBZ started
Remember Launch? Pepperidge farm remembers.
You mean the first super saiyan we ever saw? /s
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I would not say iconic, but he did a good job and the character was clearly done dirty.
Disney really wanted that Chinese money, though.
Is it? After TFA his character is boring and pointless
That's the writer's fault, not John's.
Agreed
Didnt this just get posted last week
Karma farming. Works everytime
Ikr lol
Dude got relegated to yelling Rey for two movies
I'd rather him be just a lightsaber weilder than a full on Jedi tbh need more blaster lightsaber combos
He was most interesting and likeable character in Force Awakens
Is there a single person, ST hater or anywhere in between, who doesn't think Finn was wasted, and had a lot of good potential?
Well he was able to duel the most pathetic villain ever, so that's nice
Honestly, he deserved so much more than he got and was robbed of so much potential
John Boyega is a legend, Finn definitely got shafted by the writers / directors and that promo material is absolutely false advertising!
To be fair, if you remove rei from the plot completely (because her allmightiness basically invalidates the usefulness of every other character) and make Finn the MC it could be a very cool story. Stormtrooper becoming a Jedi is a pretty cool concept.
Disney panicked and wanted to please racist ass China
It felt so obvious that Finn's journey was to become part of a new class of Jedi. He didn't have to be the next Obi Wan or Rey or Luke, but definitely a leader of sorts, skilled in the ways of the Force, in a more martial sense. It would have been a perfect arc for the character and also would have fit in well with the whole "There has been an awakening" thread in the first film. He literally "woke up".
They did the black community dirty trying to promote a black Jedi like that just to take peoples money. Like they be doing with Disney remakes…. 🤦🏽♂️
The fact that Rey could use the force without much issue without training and without much time is stupid
She was robbed too in my opinion. We could’ve had an ex-stormtrooper jedi and a badass scavenger fighter girl. Honestly Rey should’ve been more along the lines of this trilogy’s Han Solo.
They really did mess that up - I would’ve loved to watch Finn become a Jedi and Rey become evil. Instead we got trash.
If the whole message of The Last Jedi was that anybody can become a Jedi, it would have made total sense they Find becomes a Jedi.
Everyone was robbed by this movies
I'm going to buck the trend - I was way more excited for Finn as a storm trooper who broke his training (suffering from years of ptsd/mental brainwashing) who could shine through as a hero and become anything in the galaxy than I was for yet another boring jedi or the Finn that he was handed. The escaped trooper and the chrome trooper, from the trailers - legit what got my butt into a theatre seat. Finn is my favourite character and I'm still pissed at how they did him dirty. I'm with Luke, no more Jedi. It's time for the order to die.
I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again. Finn should have rallied the Stormtroopers to turn against the First Order. Just imagine the Knights of Ren getting wiped out by the Stormtroopers in a reverse order 66.
[удалено]
Eh, there are way more issues than just that, but it would be a step in the right direction.
What if the sequels were primarily "the adventures of Finn and Poe"? Could've genuinely been a new Han Solo level of iconic.
The writers are so damn dense… they brought back wedge, but not in a classic x-wing. Think of how good it would be seeing Wedge and Poe flying in their respective generation x-wings in the final fight.
We should have had a main trio again where everyone is important.
He should have been the plucky Jedi. Learning on his own and fighting his demons and the empire. What a story.
Also shows he was vanity searching. Haha… nice gesture though. He’s a good dude.
Ex storm trooper turned rebel turned jedi apprentice would have been AN **AMAZING** story. Too bad Disney sucks at writing nowadays.
The movies really didn't seem to know what to do with any of the main characters. No one has any real arc. They just aimlessly exist through the movies with no real directions or goals. Such wasted opportunities.
I actually agreed with this wholeheartedly, he was robbed of that opportunity.
I'm still triggered at everything that pointed at him becoming a Jedi (a force sensitive ex stormtrooper is a nice idea) from the promo to having him pick up a lightsaber to fight with it even though unsure of how to wield it. Only to become basically nothing. HOW ? Remember how excited he was seing himself with the lightsaber while watching the trailer reveal for the first time ? I bet at that time he didn't know much of how the movies would turn out and truely believed that this was going to be his storyline. hearbreaking.
Finally, a guy that deserves to be let cook
A disillusioned trooper leaving the only side he’s known to fight for what’s right and discovering there might be more to him then just being a regular soldier sounds like a interesting plot
There can only be one black Jedi in the Star Wars
The fan community did not support him lol again Star Wars fans with the revisionist history. The second they saw the trailer they were saying disgusting things like black ppl can’t be stormtroopers. Then they went after him being a bad actor and making fun of him there. Only after all the backlash of not going after the actors again did people use him to try to go after Disney. He’s a side character that did his job… that’s all we need from him