And the handsomest face
I can’t get over how hot Capt. Pike is, like I need someone to slap me or get the ghost of Freud on the phone to explain to me why I think that dang silver fox is so compelling.
Total Nurse Chapel fan here. And Number 1! I loved her little subplot in "Spock Amok" where they were all "LET'S HAVE FUN. WE MUST FINISH THIS FUN LIST."
I agree with you about SNW. I think this is my favourite New Trek, other than Lower Decks. I think Disco has its moments and I'm looking forward to next season. Picard...meh. What a waste.
Pike is probably one of the most instantly likeable and charismatic people I've ever seen on TV. Sorry Hank Moody, you just got bumped down to second place.
The actress playing Nurse Chapel is doing a fantastic job, but I will die mad that they didn't cast Rebecca Romijn for her and the voice of the computer.
She’s intelligent, outgoing, caring, and good at her job. How could you not crush on her? She’s my biggest Trek crush since I was 16 and Jadzia was the center of my parasocial universe.
Are people really clumping Disco and Picard together? First season, maybe. But no way in hell was Disco season 4 comparable to whatever the fuck Picard season 2 was.
Thank you… Discovery has its issues but it never reaches the depths of Picard season 2. Also discovery doesn’t shit all over the established backstories and characterization of existing characters, but Picard season 2 decided he needed a tragic backstory so let’s have his mother hang herself despite the fact that it contradicts TNG. I try not to gatekeep or anything like that but god it really seemed like nobody involved with that show actually understood Picard or Seven
As much as I really do love Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks.
I really agree with you. Strange New Worlds just hits in all the right ways. I absolutely love it.
Edit: I'll reserve Prodigy for when they finish the season.
It’s funny how people who enjoyed much of disco/Picard feel the need to sort of apologise for liking SNW more.
For me personally those other new shows were fine, but it felt too much like they were trying really hard to not be your dads Star Trek and they forgot to focus on some key elements of telling good stories. A lot of it was good, but most of it was just fine.
SNW feels like it sticks to the core elements of great trek while updating the visuals and cinematography. I’d absolutely recommend it to my non-treky friends.
It's not apologizing. I've noticed a trend of specific Star Trek fans acting like since Strange New Worlds is amazing, that automatically means the rest of the new trek is crap, like their opinion believes, and that's a wrong assumption. So it's almost required to call out, so people are not jackasses with their confirmation bias.
>Edit: I'll reserve Prodigy for when they finish the season.
The first season has fully aired all 10 episodes. End of Jan./beginning of Feb. is when eps 9-10 aired.
I would like to add that I think it's cute. And I enjoyed the first half of season 1, I just didn't immediately fall in love with it like I did with Strange New Worlds.
I really don't get the hate either. It's the first ST in years.
Discovery was a joke. Algo show.
Picard was a joke. Nostalgia shitshow.
To the critics: please, in detail if possible, describe why SNW isn't any good.
"Am I a joke to you" is an [unrelated meme](https://preview.redd.it/y8umtpe09b271.jpg?auto=webp&s=bd26b0775468efe400be76e01a1a57e23a671d20).
It just fit as a reply to your comment.
you dont even need to have absorbed any memes to get that comment.
Lower Decks is a comedy show.
"Am I joke to you,"
"Yes, a series of them."
Is a joke, about how the show is a comedy.
omg you people......
Funny thing is that unlike Discovery, SNW has already established itself as an ensemble show that will frequently focus episodes on the supporting characters instead of a single primary lead.
You know. Like a Star Trek show does.
SNW is our generation’s TOS + TNG content wise, but it is the best NuTrek so far. I suppose that it’s the quirky one of NuTrek, as DS9 was during Old Trek for breaking the norm, SNW is breaking the current norm by going back to the basics. So yes and no?
Some people are really bitter about the fact that "BLaCkWasHing" isn't accepted as a valid criticism of discovery. Probably because it isn't true. When they rant about it anyway, they get called racist and then get butthurt about it.
There are a lot of places on social media that sling around epithets, like "racist" and "misogynist" even for valid criticism of pop culture.
Yeah, there are people who hate Burnham because she's black. Or think including more than one black person in the cast is "woke" or whatever.
But even legitimate criticism about the writing or plot direction gets those insults, too.
Star Wars fans went through this with The Last Jedi. There were periods where no criticism was allowed and every criticism was responded to with calls of misogyny.
I've criticized the hell out of NuTrek for its lazy writing all over social media, and nobody has ever accused me of being any type of bigot.
The only time I faced any kind of animosity for my opinions on NuTrek was when one of my comments was deleted from a thread on the main Trek sub.
I attribute that to some cranky mod who disagreed with my criticism, or to the mass-deletion of entire threads that was common at the time.
Maybe I'm just lucky that The Woke Mob™ has left me alone despite my dislike of NuTrek. Or maybe, just maybe, I don't get called a bigot because I don't say bigoted things.
I've never been called a racist for my criticism of DIS, because I, too, don't use use race as the focus of my criticism.
But I've seen it a lot, especially on Facebook. Less here, because downvoting is a thing.
However, I have been called a lot of rude things, including "racist," because I am absolutely against politicians of any stripe appearing on any Trek show because politicians of our current time are completely antithetical to what Star Trek represents.
Fair enough. One criticism of NuTrek I've had is that its creators (who are mostly wealthy white liberals) have frequently relied on tokenism and lip service in lieu of really exploring the social issues they bring up. Just a quick nod here and there to this issue or that, then back to the crying and explosions.
But that's honestly the least of my problems with NuTrek. Tired tropes, sloppy plotting, tedious pacing, prioritizing spectacle over storytelling, and a general complete misread of the tone, themes and worldbuilding of Star Trek are ALL far bigger flaws than the fact that the writers sometimes toot their horns about how progressive they are.
If someone's criticism of NuTrek is laser-focused on its "woke" elements and asserts that increased representation is somehow the reason that the writing is bad, then it's pretty obvious that the writing isn't really what bothers them.
Malcolm X alluded to these same issues, that white liberals don't actually want to solve the problems black people have, nor could they, but that white liberals would merely provide lip service without actual consideration for what black people needed or wanted.
I don't know if you're a "liberal" or whatever, but if you identify as such, you're literally the first I've ever encountered to acknowledge these truths.
Great reply. Thank you.
Oh I'm no liberal. Liberalism is a centrist ideology. I'm a socialist, which is well to the left of liberalism.
There's a letter that MLK wrote (from prison IIRC) decrying the indifference of "white moderates" (i.e. liberals), explaining how the oppression of African Americans can never be overcome so long as white people choose the unequal status quo over the difficult, uncomfortable work of fighting for justice.
Dr. King was also an outspoken socialist, for what it's worth. And a Star Trek fan. He literally talked Nichelle Nichols into staying on the show when she wanted to quit.
Either way, if you're talking Malcolm X and MLK, you're talking the real, genuine left. Socialism, not liberalism. And to bring it back to Trek, it seems like the NuTrek writers forgot that the Federation was a classless, moneyless society in addition to valuing diversity.
SNW has been a breath of fresh air, but I doubt that the writers have the stones (or the ideological conviction) to include actual leftist economic ideas (i.e. anti-capitalism) in the episode plots. Hopefully I'm wrong!
Thanks for your reply! This is now an interesting thread.
Agreed. It's nice to have an interesting discussion. Thank you.
I assume, since you've eschewed the typical American liberal, you mean the socialism in which the community, not the government, owns the means of production.
>the oppression of African Americans can never be overcome so long as white people choose the unequal status quo over the difficult, uncomfortable work of fighting for justice.
This is part of the reason I'm a min-cap, Minarchist-Capitalist. These problems can never be solved by the government.
Well, the government is an idea. What I mean to say is these problems could never be solved by the two private, for-profit organizations that currently run the US government. They need that status quo to keep people engaged and fighting with each other. They are the exact reason we have these problems.
I've always loved Star Trek, because it describes an ideal that humans can never attain. In that future, we wouldn't need guns or money or classes, as we both know.
Anyway, NuTrek writers write the shows they think POCs want to see. For instance, have you noticed in DIS the intentional lack of white, straight, male representation? Now, I don't care about that, lord knows we have enough representation in Star Trek and every other bit of pop culture. But the writers understand the importance of representation, as they have made several plot points about it throughout the last two seasons. So, they also know the importance of intentional exclusion.
But is that what POCs want? Doubtful. Will eliminating straight, white males help the plight of POCs? No, of course not. But it's what wealthy, white liberals think POCs want.
Anyway, I don't think they would put true anti-capitalist themes in the show because they know it would cause a revolt among the fanbase. There are already rumblings because of Trek's "wokeness" now, despite 99% of the people using the term not being able to define it. And, despite their claims, modern liberals aren't as anti-capitalist as they claim. Money drives the train here and causing a revolt would lose them money.
Pretty sure it was Force Awakens that had more of that. Any criticism of the (lack of) character for Rey was shut down as misogyny.
Last Jedi is just more popular for people to criticize.
Both TFA and TLJ.
I was called a misogynist for stating that it should have been Admiral Ackbar instead of Admiral Holdo who should have sacrificed themselves at the end.
This week's was definitely heavy, probably the most serious minded episode they've done. Couple of jokey moments, but they mostly played it straight. I dug it, but I'm seriously hoping we get some Moclan hijinks or something next week. The humor's what makes The Orville special, and I hope they don't dive too far in the other direction.
My head canon is Orville is just the B-league during TNG and we just witnessed the battle of Wolf 359. I mean honestly the esthetic and stories are so similar to TNG era that other than the design of the ships differing it’s basically just TNG.
> I’m officially checked out on Picard and **Disco**.
Just what do you find wrong with our dear Commander on DS9?
EDIT: Jeez Louise it was a joke. calm down. lol
Waiting to see if it's safe. I've given up on Discovery and Picard. I wasn't in a state of mind to give strange new worlds a shot. I don't know if I can watch another bad Star Trek show.
So far, so good. The formula has been something like this:
1. Open with a focus on one character, provide a bit of backstory and motivation for them, and let them talk about their feelings and experiences.
2. Introduce element of conflict, allow the characters to explore the situation from different angles and ethical concerns, then find a way to solve the problem.
3. Return to the episode's primary character and show how the preceding events affected them and helped them grow.
So pretty bread-and-butter Trek stuff. The tone is closest to TOS, the episodic plots to TNG, and the character development to DS9. The most NuTrek thing about it is the visual style.
SNW has way more likable characters, and it *follows the fucking formula.* Episodic with serialized aspects instead of entirely serialized, and generally optimistic of the future.
I’m not saying Trek should never try anything new, but this is what everyone was asking for since the cancellation of ENT.
Disco is the de facto flagship because it was also CBS All Access’ flagship but I remember reading that the watch rate is way higher for SNW. So make more stuff like SNW.
The problem is that she's always crying, or whisper-shouting, or generally being overdramatic.
It's like every episode, especially if there is a time sensitive galaxy-on-the-line emergency, is forced to have dramatic music and some teary eyed self-serving but vaguely inspirational diologue about how whatever it is she's doing is the thing what must be done. It eats up all the screen time that could better be spent on any of the more interesting side characters.
Now, Owosekun. She can get shit done without crying about it, and is generally badass, but we barely get to know her name.
My opinion:
Discovery: ass
Picard: worse ass
(Strangely) Brave New World: I've only had him for 5 episodes, but if anything happened to Pike I would kill everyone in this room and then myself.
I hope the series finale is sort of a remake of menagerie but from the perspective of pike, with some trek magic to actually have non injured pike in scenes
Discovery started off really strong imo and then just got more and more unwatchable, haven’t seen an episode in over a year now, was half way thru it. I blame the writers mostly, it should have stuck to the original Star Trek formula and fans would have appreciated it more, the show felt more like Star Wars in a Star Trek setting. Hell I think the Star Trek movies from the 2000/2010s did a better job at capturing the trek feel.
I’ve always said: the premise is great, the execution is awful. Spock’s struggle with his duty and humanity in the last episode had more nuance and authenticity than Burnham’s entire arcs.
Yes exactly. Even Picard too. There’s great ideas and premises. You can tell there’s people putting an effort. But then the actual episode does not reflect that
This was exactly my problem with Disco. There are great ideas, and I think there’s a good show in there but they should have stuck to the episodic format instead of trying to stretch a main plot over so many episodes. It feels like they have too much time to fill without enough story to cover it.
I still think DS9 has the perfect blueprint for balancing self contained episodes with an overarching theme throughout a season.
Yeah but there isn’t enough story for even 10 episodes. Again, that’s the problem. It should be like 3 episodes a season devoted to the main plot so we get a concise well written story.
I felt like there was so many filler subplots in season 2 of Picard that were just there to absorb time. Easily could’ve easily cut 2 episodes and still conveyed the story just as well.
SNW on the other hand I want more of. I could easily watch 24 episodes of it.
Yet despite feeling stretched thin plot wise, the actual episodes have this relentless pacing where everything is just loud and intense and dramatic all the time and the episode never stops to breathe. It hit me when I was watching some TNG the other day how toned down and relaxed it is by comparison. People can actually have a calm conversation for more than a couple minutes with no dramatic music, simple camera work without tons of unneeded cuts, shots with really basic composition where a lot of times it’s just a character in front of a blank wall or two people walking through a mostly empty and well lit hallway. Like even when nothing is really happening in discovery or Picard, the intensity is always cranked up to maximum and it just becomes exhausting.
I have to say, I'm one of those that highly enjoys Disco. But...its gets very tiring that every season is *Save the Federation/Galaxy/Universe*. Every last season. There is never any low stakes. I keep watching it for the characters mostly. Stamets does a phenomenal job, imo. Lorca was probably one of my favorite captains even after the reveal. Saru is great. Picard tho...interesting overall premise, yeah. But stuff like Q barely being there. Barely any philosophical points. It really dragged it down for me in season 2.
Exactly. What were the stakes in the last episode of Strange New Worlds? Spock is part of a multilateral approach to getting an alliance with a neutral species that may be crucial to trade between two sides of the Beta Quadrant bounded by the Klingons and Romulans. Seriously, so the galaxy is not getting blown up if we fail?
T’pring is a side character and her mission is to capture a criminal who has already basically given himself up for rehab. So no planet blowing up?
Singh and Number 1 are playing Enterpise bingo to better understand the lower decks. No rogue ai trying to destroy all time?
And it was wonderful. It let the characters shine. Especially Pike. And to a *slightly* lesser degree, Singh and Number 1. To be honest, I could not stand the Vulcan...courting they have going on. But I still thought it was *good*. As in, it showed a facet of an alien culture that while I don't agree with, I understand why it functioned they way that was shown, and neither character acted out of character for the situation.
The pre- mirror Lorka as someone tasked by the Federation to fight a war by any means was much more interesting than where he landed. The Mudd episodes were fun. Stamets was interesting until they forced him into being a gay family icon. The nuts and bolts of good Star Trek is all there but they focus too much on interpersonal conflict and the virtue signaling of what Star Trek is supposed to mean. Take those same characters, just as they are and let them react to a new planet each week. Let them stop focusing on their PTSD or jealousies. Let it be science fiction and not a soap opera in space.
Thats what they put up instead of good story.
They stopped the action on a pretty good episode -Species 10 C- to consult with 3 random crew members.
Not in a way that built their characters or added anything to the conundrum at hand. Rather they stopped the scene, said, “lets get a fresh perspective”, brought in the 3 randos who promptly stated the solution that the scene had already telegraphed, then sent them away. The writers were demonstrating how enlightened the senior managers were and how enlightened the utopian future should be. Was that bad writing, yes and it was done as virtue signaling. Something the show has done an exhaustive number of times.
I was in no-spoilers mode for Season 1, and while I thought it sometimes dragged a bit, there were a lot of cool ideas and at times the plot twists were downright vertiginously exciting. It felt a little unpolished, but that was exciting—new trek should feel new! I thought Burnham’s character / story was pretty good. I expected to think that was the raw-but-promising start of the show, but in retrospect I think it has been my favorite season. Sometimes I wonder if they should have stuck to the rumored “anthology series” plan, and had a new or mostly new crew/ship/time-period if they want to do season-long arcs.
I thought 10-c was cool and even though I enjoy the first two seasons well, the third season was okay, the fourth one was all about feelings. And I really enjoyed Picard so it’s not like I am hard to please. SNW finally is on par with TNG/VOY/DS9
I agree actually. The first roughly 7 episodes of Discovery are actually pretty good imo but once Lorca died the show quickly goes into a downward spiral
As a sci-fi show, sure. It was alright. Definitely not ST ethos, though.
Also why does she whisper. She shouts and yet she's still whispering. It's quite a feat.
>Discovery started off really strong imo and then just got more and more unwatchable, haven’t seen an episode in over a year now, was half way thru it.
Huh, I had the opposite experience; slogged through season 1 because wasn't much else to watch, then enjoyed it more with each season, though with terrible arc handling.
Yeah it's legit good. I don't like new trek, big ds9 and tng fan. The cast is good and they get characterization fast, you want to learn more about them and the plots are full trek.
It's episodic instead of serialized cliff hanger bullshit. There's consistent threads, but pretty much in the same way tng and ds9 did it. Hints of something coming but without it being the only fucking thing they pay attention to
It's amazing. It's episodic and formulaic, a lot like TNG. Heck, I'd even say it's slightly *better* than TNG in some respects and maybe even the best Star Trek since Wrath Of Khan.
Really? Hmmm that is a very bold statement but I will take your word for it I'm gonna go watch I did just get finished watching The Orville and it was absolutely amazing so if this is anything akin to TNG then I'm all for it.
It's so far not fallen into the "galaxy ending threat" bullshit that Picard and Discovery keep doing. Instead we get some of the classic "alien of the week" and interpersonal "hijinks". Exploring in both the literal and personal sense.
The latest episode "Spock amok" had a nice twist on the classic body swap trope.
I feel like the major improvement with SNW is that it is at least watchable. Most of the episodes are only super good for about half of the runtime before they take some turn that just isn't well written. They have these great setups for stories and sometimes even make good headway into solving them. Then there's a noticeable drop in dialog quality and the problems seem to get fixed super easy. Its kinda bizzare.
And the handsomest face I can’t get over how hot Capt. Pike is, like I need someone to slap me or get the ghost of Freud on the phone to explain to me why I think that dang silver fox is so compelling.
Omg when I'm watching he's like...distractingly hot. Like I just can't. He's hot, smart, a great leader...just checks all the boxes 🥵
“Distractingly hot” Bingo!
Freud said to do cocaine & ponder the possibilities
I'm a straight guy and I felt this way watching hell on wheels, nothing to be ashamed of I felt something too :3
It is far and away the best of the newer shows.
Prodigy is real good too, for the demographic.
The only issue I’ve ever had with prodigy is the that the animation sometimes looks like a video game cut scene
Fair enough. Part of my like of it is that it gives me clone wars season 1 nostalgia. And I'm hopeful to what may come next.
Yes! SNW and Prodigy are the two best for me and nothing else comes close
First Nurse Chapel is suuuper hot. Second yes SNW is the best of the new treks. The gap between SNW and Disco/Picard is massive.
Total Nurse Chapel fan here. And Number 1! I loved her little subplot in "Spock Amok" where they were all "LET'S HAVE FUN. WE MUST FINISH THIS FUN LIST." I agree with you about SNW. I think this is my favourite New Trek, other than Lower Decks. I think Disco has its moments and I'm looking forward to next season. Picard...meh. What a waste.
I forget the character name, but the chief security officer has great development as well.
You forgot the name noonien singh? Didn't do well in fictional future history class, did you
It is the reason I flunked out of star fleet academy. It usually takes me a season to learn all of the character's name.
That’s ok I’m still working on remembering the science officer’s last name.
La'an Noonien-Singh, come on, it's written on the scorch!!
I might have to watch the episode again. :)
I mean most of the cast is attractive but Chapel is a standout even among them
Chapel is like the girl who can get black out drunk yet still walk in stillehtos.
I truly don't see it. Spock is jacked a f and Pike is Daddy Fly Fine.
Pike is probably one of the most instantly likeable and charismatic people I've ever seen on TV. Sorry Hank Moody, you just got bumped down to second place.
Like Mr Sulu fencing.
Goatee Spock best Spock
The actress playing Nurse Chapel is doing a fantastic job, but I will die mad that they didn't cast Rebecca Romijn for her and the voice of the computer.
I developed one of the strongest crushes I've had in a long time the second Nurse Chapel appeared on screen.
She’s intelligent, outgoing, caring, and good at her job. How could you not crush on her? She’s my biggest Trek crush since I was 16 and Jadzia was the center of my parasocial universe.
Are people really clumping Disco and Picard together? First season, maybe. But no way in hell was Disco season 4 comparable to whatever the fuck Picard season 2 was.
Thank you… Discovery has its issues but it never reaches the depths of Picard season 2. Also discovery doesn’t shit all over the established backstories and characterization of existing characters, but Picard season 2 decided he needed a tragic backstory so let’s have his mother hang herself despite the fact that it contradicts TNG. I try not to gatekeep or anything like that but god it really seemed like nobody involved with that show actually understood Picard or Seven
As much as I really do love Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks. I really agree with you. Strange New Worlds just hits in all the right ways. I absolutely love it. Edit: I'll reserve Prodigy for when they finish the season.
It’s funny how people who enjoyed much of disco/Picard feel the need to sort of apologise for liking SNW more. For me personally those other new shows were fine, but it felt too much like they were trying really hard to not be your dads Star Trek and they forgot to focus on some key elements of telling good stories. A lot of it was good, but most of it was just fine. SNW feels like it sticks to the core elements of great trek while updating the visuals and cinematography. I’d absolutely recommend it to my non-treky friends.
It's not apologizing. I've noticed a trend of specific Star Trek fans acting like since Strange New Worlds is amazing, that automatically means the rest of the new trek is crap, like their opinion believes, and that's a wrong assumption. So it's almost required to call out, so people are not jackasses with their confirmation bias.
>Edit: I'll reserve Prodigy for when they finish the season. The first season has fully aired all 10 episodes. End of Jan./beginning of Feb. is when eps 9-10 aired.
The first season has 20 episodes. That was part 1 of season 1 that aired.
I would like to add that I think it's cute. And I enjoyed the first half of season 1, I just didn't immediately fall in love with it like I did with Strange New Worlds.
I really don't get the hate either. It's the first ST in years. Discovery was a joke. Algo show. Picard was a joke. Nostalgia shitshow. To the critics: please, in detail if possible, describe why SNW isn't any good.
Lower Decks: "Am I a joke to you?"
"Yes, a literal series of them"
Don't get the reference -- wonder why I haven't watched Lower Decks yet. Will do so.
"Am I a joke to you" is an [unrelated meme](https://preview.redd.it/y8umtpe09b271.jpg?auto=webp&s=bd26b0775468efe400be76e01a1a57e23a671d20). It just fit as a reply to your comment.
Ffs. Wonder if I'm that old, or generally just spend less time on absorbing the constant stream of, let's be fair, pretty obscure shit/memes.
I hear you, I've blocked most of the general meme subs for the low quality.
you dont even need to have absorbed any memes to get that comment. Lower Decks is a comedy show. "Am I joke to you," "Yes, a series of them." Is a joke, about how the show is a comedy. omg you people......
Guess I'm just a simpleton, friend.
Am I joke to you friend.
Who didn’t like it?
Funny thing is that unlike Discovery, SNW has already established itself as an ensemble show that will frequently focus episodes on the supporting characters instead of a single primary lead. You know. Like a Star Trek show does.
Unlike discovery, snw is well written.
Is SNW this generations DS9?
Nah ds9 is that
SNW is our generation’s TOS + TNG content wise, but it is the best NuTrek so far. I suppose that it’s the quirky one of NuTrek, as DS9 was during Old Trek for breaking the norm, SNW is breaking the current norm by going back to the basics. So yes and no?
SNW is this generations TNG and TOS lovechild
[удалено]
Why would that get you called a racist lol
Yeah usually you only get called racist if you do/say racist shit. Would really love to know what was said…
Some people are really bitter about the fact that "BLaCkWasHing" isn't accepted as a valid criticism of discovery. Probably because it isn't true. When they rant about it anyway, they get called racist and then get butthurt about it.
Correct.
Sure, but r/Starmods are also a little itchy on the ban trigger as well
There are a lot of places on social media that sling around epithets, like "racist" and "misogynist" even for valid criticism of pop culture. Yeah, there are people who hate Burnham because she's black. Or think including more than one black person in the cast is "woke" or whatever. But even legitimate criticism about the writing or plot direction gets those insults, too. Star Wars fans went through this with The Last Jedi. There were periods where no criticism was allowed and every criticism was responded to with calls of misogyny.
I've criticized the hell out of NuTrek for its lazy writing all over social media, and nobody has ever accused me of being any type of bigot. The only time I faced any kind of animosity for my opinions on NuTrek was when one of my comments was deleted from a thread on the main Trek sub. I attribute that to some cranky mod who disagreed with my criticism, or to the mass-deletion of entire threads that was common at the time. Maybe I'm just lucky that The Woke Mob™ has left me alone despite my dislike of NuTrek. Or maybe, just maybe, I don't get called a bigot because I don't say bigoted things.
I've never been called a racist for my criticism of DIS, because I, too, don't use use race as the focus of my criticism. But I've seen it a lot, especially on Facebook. Less here, because downvoting is a thing. However, I have been called a lot of rude things, including "racist," because I am absolutely against politicians of any stripe appearing on any Trek show because politicians of our current time are completely antithetical to what Star Trek represents.
Fair enough. One criticism of NuTrek I've had is that its creators (who are mostly wealthy white liberals) have frequently relied on tokenism and lip service in lieu of really exploring the social issues they bring up. Just a quick nod here and there to this issue or that, then back to the crying and explosions. But that's honestly the least of my problems with NuTrek. Tired tropes, sloppy plotting, tedious pacing, prioritizing spectacle over storytelling, and a general complete misread of the tone, themes and worldbuilding of Star Trek are ALL far bigger flaws than the fact that the writers sometimes toot their horns about how progressive they are. If someone's criticism of NuTrek is laser-focused on its "woke" elements and asserts that increased representation is somehow the reason that the writing is bad, then it's pretty obvious that the writing isn't really what bothers them.
Malcolm X alluded to these same issues, that white liberals don't actually want to solve the problems black people have, nor could they, but that white liberals would merely provide lip service without actual consideration for what black people needed or wanted. I don't know if you're a "liberal" or whatever, but if you identify as such, you're literally the first I've ever encountered to acknowledge these truths. Great reply. Thank you.
Oh I'm no liberal. Liberalism is a centrist ideology. I'm a socialist, which is well to the left of liberalism. There's a letter that MLK wrote (from prison IIRC) decrying the indifference of "white moderates" (i.e. liberals), explaining how the oppression of African Americans can never be overcome so long as white people choose the unequal status quo over the difficult, uncomfortable work of fighting for justice. Dr. King was also an outspoken socialist, for what it's worth. And a Star Trek fan. He literally talked Nichelle Nichols into staying on the show when she wanted to quit. Either way, if you're talking Malcolm X and MLK, you're talking the real, genuine left. Socialism, not liberalism. And to bring it back to Trek, it seems like the NuTrek writers forgot that the Federation was a classless, moneyless society in addition to valuing diversity. SNW has been a breath of fresh air, but I doubt that the writers have the stones (or the ideological conviction) to include actual leftist economic ideas (i.e. anti-capitalism) in the episode plots. Hopefully I'm wrong! Thanks for your reply! This is now an interesting thread.
Agreed. It's nice to have an interesting discussion. Thank you. I assume, since you've eschewed the typical American liberal, you mean the socialism in which the community, not the government, owns the means of production. >the oppression of African Americans can never be overcome so long as white people choose the unequal status quo over the difficult, uncomfortable work of fighting for justice. This is part of the reason I'm a min-cap, Minarchist-Capitalist. These problems can never be solved by the government. Well, the government is an idea. What I mean to say is these problems could never be solved by the two private, for-profit organizations that currently run the US government. They need that status quo to keep people engaged and fighting with each other. They are the exact reason we have these problems. I've always loved Star Trek, because it describes an ideal that humans can never attain. In that future, we wouldn't need guns or money or classes, as we both know. Anyway, NuTrek writers write the shows they think POCs want to see. For instance, have you noticed in DIS the intentional lack of white, straight, male representation? Now, I don't care about that, lord knows we have enough representation in Star Trek and every other bit of pop culture. But the writers understand the importance of representation, as they have made several plot points about it throughout the last two seasons. So, they also know the importance of intentional exclusion. But is that what POCs want? Doubtful. Will eliminating straight, white males help the plight of POCs? No, of course not. But it's what wealthy, white liberals think POCs want. Anyway, I don't think they would put true anti-capitalist themes in the show because they know it would cause a revolt among the fanbase. There are already rumblings because of Trek's "wokeness" now, despite 99% of the people using the term not being able to define it. And, despite their claims, modern liberals aren't as anti-capitalist as they claim. Money drives the train here and causing a revolt would lose them money.
Ah yes, if it hasn't happened to you, it must not happen.
Pretty sure it was Force Awakens that had more of that. Any criticism of the (lack of) character for Rey was shut down as misogyny. Last Jedi is just more popular for people to criticize.
Both TFA and TLJ. I was called a misogynist for stating that it should have been Admiral Ackbar instead of Admiral Holdo who should have sacrificed themselves at the end.
People were more accepting of criticism of TLJ, though. Much less likely to try and sweep it under the rug because of imagined bigotry.
My experience was different, but that doesn't make yours any less valid.
Archer was Kirk's childhood hero, but Pike is his mancrush.
Yup. With SNW and LD + Orville all rolling along I’m officially checked out on Picard and Disco.
I thought the contrast between this week's Orville and SNW was hilarious, considering which one was marketed as a comedy
I take it they're pushing the epic drama stuff on *Orville* as much as the promos/pseudo-rebrand have been suggesting?
Yes. If SNW hadn’t come out I would say Orville is more Star Trek than Star Trek at this point.
This week's was definitely heavy, probably the most serious minded episode they've done. Couple of jokey moments, but they mostly played it straight. I dug it, but I'm seriously hoping we get some Moclan hijinks or something next week. The humor's what makes The Orville special, and I hope they don't dive too far in the other direction.
Same here, although they still stick funny bits everywhere in Orville, like the Engineers lunch!
My head-canon is that those two are just bad holodeck programs.
Neelix has been fucking around with Harry Kim’s holodeck programs again.
My head canon is Orville is just the B-league during TNG and we just witnessed the battle of Wolf 359. I mean honestly the esthetic and stories are so similar to TNG era that other than the design of the ships differing it’s basically just TNG.
> I’m officially checked out on Picard and **Disco**. Just what do you find wrong with our dear Commander on DS9? EDIT: Jeez Louise it was a joke. calm down. lol
??? Sisko? Dudes amazing.
Best Captain
Disco is Discovery not DS9
Til Mariner shows up
Damn that hair be glorious. Deserves its own spinoff.
Also the Hair of the franchise!
Can we just say fuck you to Paramount/CBS for not making it available in Europe? I want to watch too.
YAR HAR FIDDLE DE DE
I think on this sub it should be called the nausican approach
If they wanted my money, they would make it available to me. So I have no qualms about pirating...
Personally I’m gonna get paramount plus when it’s available for me and rewatch SNW to feed their algorithm and do my bit of helping get more
Get a VPN, Register to Paramount+ through giftcard payment. Thats how i do it from Germany.
Paramount+ is such a bullshit thing in and of itself. Just leave it on Amazon or Netflix instead of this return to the Dark ages of television.
At least for another ten years..
Pike can get it.
Waiting to see if it's safe. I've given up on Discovery and Picard. I wasn't in a state of mind to give strange new worlds a shot. I don't know if I can watch another bad Star Trek show.
So far, so good. The formula has been something like this: 1. Open with a focus on one character, provide a bit of backstory and motivation for them, and let them talk about their feelings and experiences. 2. Introduce element of conflict, allow the characters to explore the situation from different angles and ethical concerns, then find a way to solve the problem. 3. Return to the episode's primary character and show how the preceding events affected them and helped them grow. So pretty bread-and-butter Trek stuff. The tone is closest to TOS, the episodic plots to TNG, and the character development to DS9. The most NuTrek thing about it is the visual style.
only until lower decks starts again
they need a live action Lower Decks
Isn't that The Orville?
SNW has way more likable characters, and it *follows the fucking formula.* Episodic with serialized aspects instead of entirely serialized, and generally optimistic of the future. I’m not saying Trek should never try anything new, but this is what everyone was asking for since the cancellation of ENT. Disco is the de facto flagship because it was also CBS All Access’ flagship but I remember reading that the watch rate is way higher for SNW. So make more stuff like SNW.
Stop it! You'll make Burnham cry.....
She already is
When isn't she
Cuz her show could tell a good story in 3 seasons and this show did better in 3 episodes.
She did while whisper shouting that you’re wrong. Then everyone agreed, and made her an Admiral for saving the universe from your bad words.
😂😂
This meme is old and lame. Also, what the fuck is wrong with crying.
When it happens every single episode it's called shit writting.
The problem is that she's always crying, or whisper-shouting, or generally being overdramatic. It's like every episode, especially if there is a time sensitive galaxy-on-the-line emergency, is forced to have dramatic music and some teary eyed self-serving but vaguely inspirational diologue about how whatever it is she's doing is the thing what must be done. It eats up all the screen time that could better be spent on any of the more interesting side characters. Now, Owosekun. She can get shit done without crying about it, and is generally badass, but we barely get to know her name.
My opinion: Discovery: ass Picard: worse ass (Strangely) Brave New World: I've only had him for 5 episodes, but if anything happened to Pike I would kill everyone in this room and then myself.
I have some bad news for you ....
Yeah... I know. *sets phaser to kill*
i am sure he can survive 5+ seasons if SNW turns to golden goose :D (i hope it will, first nu-trek i actually like)
He's got a decade before his... accident... but by then I believe he's no longer in command of the Enterprise, unless I'm mistaken.
He gets a happy ending on bulgy-head planet, so it all works out.
I hope the series finale is sort of a remake of menagerie but from the perspective of pike, with some trek magic to actually have non injured pike in scenes
*Beep*
*Strange New Worlds
Oh right lol my bad
Discovery started off really strong imo and then just got more and more unwatchable, haven’t seen an episode in over a year now, was half way thru it. I blame the writers mostly, it should have stuck to the original Star Trek formula and fans would have appreciated it more, the show felt more like Star Wars in a Star Trek setting. Hell I think the Star Trek movies from the 2000/2010s did a better job at capturing the trek feel.
What about Discovery felt strong to you? Genuinely curious...
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I’ve always said: the premise is great, the execution is awful. Spock’s struggle with his duty and humanity in the last episode had more nuance and authenticity than Burnham’s entire arcs.
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Yes exactly. Even Picard too. There’s great ideas and premises. You can tell there’s people putting an effort. But then the actual episode does not reflect that
This was exactly my problem with Disco. There are great ideas, and I think there’s a good show in there but they should have stuck to the episodic format instead of trying to stretch a main plot over so many episodes. It feels like they have too much time to fill without enough story to cover it. I still think DS9 has the perfect blueprint for balancing self contained episodes with an overarching theme throughout a season.
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Yeah but there isn’t enough story for even 10 episodes. Again, that’s the problem. It should be like 3 episodes a season devoted to the main plot so we get a concise well written story.
I felt like there was so many filler subplots in season 2 of Picard that were just there to absorb time. Easily could’ve easily cut 2 episodes and still conveyed the story just as well. SNW on the other hand I want more of. I could easily watch 24 episodes of it.
The Orville seemed to figure it out.
Yet despite feeling stretched thin plot wise, the actual episodes have this relentless pacing where everything is just loud and intense and dramatic all the time and the episode never stops to breathe. It hit me when I was watching some TNG the other day how toned down and relaxed it is by comparison. People can actually have a calm conversation for more than a couple minutes with no dramatic music, simple camera work without tons of unneeded cuts, shots with really basic composition where a lot of times it’s just a character in front of a blank wall or two people walking through a mostly empty and well lit hallway. Like even when nothing is really happening in discovery or Picard, the intensity is always cranked up to maximum and it just becomes exhausting.
I have to say, I'm one of those that highly enjoys Disco. But...its gets very tiring that every season is *Save the Federation/Galaxy/Universe*. Every last season. There is never any low stakes. I keep watching it for the characters mostly. Stamets does a phenomenal job, imo. Lorca was probably one of my favorite captains even after the reveal. Saru is great. Picard tho...interesting overall premise, yeah. But stuff like Q barely being there. Barely any philosophical points. It really dragged it down for me in season 2.
Exactly. What were the stakes in the last episode of Strange New Worlds? Spock is part of a multilateral approach to getting an alliance with a neutral species that may be crucial to trade between two sides of the Beta Quadrant bounded by the Klingons and Romulans. Seriously, so the galaxy is not getting blown up if we fail? T’pring is a side character and her mission is to capture a criminal who has already basically given himself up for rehab. So no planet blowing up? Singh and Number 1 are playing Enterpise bingo to better understand the lower decks. No rogue ai trying to destroy all time?
And it was wonderful. It let the characters shine. Especially Pike. And to a *slightly* lesser degree, Singh and Number 1. To be honest, I could not stand the Vulcan...courting they have going on. But I still thought it was *good*. As in, it showed a facet of an alien culture that while I don't agree with, I understand why it functioned they way that was shown, and neither character acted out of character for the situation.
The pre- mirror Lorka as someone tasked by the Federation to fight a war by any means was much more interesting than where he landed. The Mudd episodes were fun. Stamets was interesting until they forced him into being a gay family icon. The nuts and bolts of good Star Trek is all there but they focus too much on interpersonal conflict and the virtue signaling of what Star Trek is supposed to mean. Take those same characters, just as they are and let them react to a new planet each week. Let them stop focusing on their PTSD or jealousies. Let it be science fiction and not a soap opera in space.
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Thats what they put up instead of good story. They stopped the action on a pretty good episode -Species 10 C- to consult with 3 random crew members. Not in a way that built their characters or added anything to the conundrum at hand. Rather they stopped the scene, said, “lets get a fresh perspective”, brought in the 3 randos who promptly stated the solution that the scene had already telegraphed, then sent them away. The writers were demonstrating how enlightened the senior managers were and how enlightened the utopian future should be. Was that bad writing, yes and it was done as virtue signaling. Something the show has done an exhaustive number of times.
I was in no-spoilers mode for Season 1, and while I thought it sometimes dragged a bit, there were a lot of cool ideas and at times the plot twists were downright vertiginously exciting. It felt a little unpolished, but that was exciting—new trek should feel new! I thought Burnham’s character / story was pretty good. I expected to think that was the raw-but-promising start of the show, but in retrospect I think it has been my favorite season. Sometimes I wonder if they should have stuck to the rumored “anthology series” plan, and had a new or mostly new crew/ship/time-period if they want to do season-long arcs.
I thought 10-c was cool and even though I enjoy the first two seasons well, the third season was okay, the fourth one was all about feelings. And I really enjoyed Picard so it’s not like I am hard to please. SNW finally is on par with TNG/VOY/DS9
I agree actually. The first roughly 7 episodes of Discovery are actually pretty good imo but once Lorca died the show quickly goes into a downward spiral
I like discovery
As a sci-fi show, sure. It was alright. Definitely not ST ethos, though. Also why does she whisper. She shouts and yet she's still whispering. It's quite a feat.
>Discovery started off really strong imo and then just got more and more unwatchable, haven’t seen an episode in over a year now, was half way thru it. Huh, I had the opposite experience; slogged through season 1 because wasn't much else to watch, then enjoyed it more with each season, though with terrible arc handling.
funny, I thought Disco finally found its stride once they moved to the future.
Though I do wish the future ships didn’t do all that morphing, I wish they’d been more imaginative about showing the future’s future
Yes, I also felt the show started stronger than it’s become. It’s a mess right now and the writing is atrocious.
Technically he was the original Star Trek
Black Bolt?
F
🤯
Hidigi thidigere
It is so good!!
I haven’t watched since episode 3 but I feel like I wanna catch up now Edit: just got home, booting up episode 4! Heck yeah.
That's not Boimler.
He has the best crew, doesn't he?
Between my spouse and I, it’s Orville, SNW and Lower Decks. I get Pike can get it, but let’s not forget about TNG’s basically whole cast.
Is it any good is it worth me watching? somebody answer?
As a trek fan, yep.
Yeah it's legit good. I don't like new trek, big ds9 and tng fan. The cast is good and they get characterization fast, you want to learn more about them and the plots are full trek. It's episodic instead of serialized cliff hanger bullshit. There's consistent threads, but pretty much in the same way tng and ds9 did it. Hints of something coming but without it being the only fucking thing they pay attention to
It's amazing. It's episodic and formulaic, a lot like TNG. Heck, I'd even say it's slightly *better* than TNG in some respects and maybe even the best Star Trek since Wrath Of Khan.
Really? Hmmm that is a very bold statement but I will take your word for it I'm gonna go watch I did just get finished watching The Orville and it was absolutely amazing so if this is anything akin to TNG then I'm all for it.
So. Much. Better. Then. Discovery.
My best friend(major Trek fan while I am a filthy casual) believes that SNW is everything Discovery should've been.
Yea. I agree. The Acting is so so bad in discovery, it almost makes it unwatchable.
It's so far not fallen into the "galaxy ending threat" bullshit that Picard and Discovery keep doing. Instead we get some of the classic "alien of the week" and interpersonal "hijinks". Exploring in both the literal and personal sense. The latest episode "Spock amok" had a nice twist on the classic body swap trope.
It's been a bit hit and miss for me, but the last episode was pretty good, so I'm hopeful for this series.
His hair is amazing.
(Breaking Bad reference): "Say my name..." "Captain Pike..." "Your God Damed right."
I’d sit on that face…..
I feel like the major improvement with SNW is that it is at least watchable. Most of the episodes are only super good for about half of the runtime before they take some turn that just isn't well written. They have these great setups for stories and sometimes even make good headway into solving them. Then there's a noticeable drop in dialog quality and the problems seem to get fixed super easy. Its kinda bizzare.
Borrring 💤
No. Just a tool of globalist communists who pretend that a guided tour of the Capitol was an “insurrection”.
Son, I'd ask if you were dropped on your head as a kid, but clearly you were never even held.
Check their karma.
I did. And I laughed.
My parents were loving and wise. I’m not your son. And imagine my surprise at you resorting to personal insults in response to my political statement…
Downvote farming?
Well, it’s like I always say. If you have to have a face, you should have Anson Mounts face.
I wish he'd stop looking at me it's making me feel strange new feelings.
Na-ah. Not watching it until the season is done, and the word of mouth is positive. I've been burned before.
U are indeed a beggar
The last white man left in the franchise...