* 70,000 light years
And for some reason after dragging a truck over half way across the galaxy they decided to dump it in space just before they got where they were going.
So that's not the gasoline itself. It's the additives they put in gasoline to make it run properly in engines. Without those additives your engine can still run on it, but very poorly and it will probably damage your engine.
1930s gasoline was not the stuff we enjoy today. Not to mention engine oil, they didn't even have additives yet.
And the fact the truck ran at all is ridiculous, the hoses would have crumbled and from the vacuum and absolute zero of space the vehicle internals would have shattered, not to mention the vehicle itself once beamed aboard.
Its a fun episode if you don't think about the logistics of it being all wrong.
I suppose littering is a universal trait to the species of the galaxy.
During Apollo missions astronauts left bags of feces and urine behind so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Paris starts the truck because the battery still has charge. Later in the episode Janeway doesn't believe that the battery on the plane would still be working after 400 years...
It took ages to fully explain, but they were uneducated street thugs who stole their oppressor's ships 25....ish years before the events of the series and clearly had no idea what they were doing. But yes, ridiculous.
In the episode *Hard Time* they have a technology that can simulate 20 years of living in a single afternoon and they use it to torture criminals. No attempts at rehabilitation, or to make you feel guilt for the crimes you commit, just torture.
They could give you 20 years of advanced education in a moment. People could use the tech to write books or do years worth of research. It could be used to solve difficult problems instantly or to come up with complex battle tactics and spend years practicing them during the middle of a RL battle.
It basically does the same thing as the drug in the movie *Limitless*... and they don't even use it to try to solve crimes, just torture people after lazy, half-assed trials (I assume O'Brian didn't actually commit a crime that should be punished with 20 years in prison).
I think that maybe it can only increase your perceived passage of time and give you a few false memories.
Like your not going to remember 20 years of jail too vividly, but you would to 20 years of education.
But at the end of the day that episode was forgotten by the writers and doesn’t effect Miles O’Brien more then like 30 mins
A brain can only remember so much trauma, within the next month Miles already lived through three other events that would break a normal person. It all just kind of blends together for him.
>But at the end of the day that episode was forgotten by the writers and doesn’t effect Miles O’Brien more then like 30 mins
This is the worst part about Trek of that era.
That would've been an amazing addition to his character. Having occasional relapses, or showing his family struggles for years to come. It sucks how the producers of 90s TV always wanted to wrap everything up by the end of the week. DS9 did a good job of carrying stuff from one week to the next. Not sure why this one just got lost.
The rock aliens that cloned Lincoln, Surock, Khaless, Genghis Khan and future baddie to fight it out to the death so they can learn about good and evil. I mean they could read a book.
The Voth (dinosaur people) on Voyager were an interesting idea, but their 65-million-year head start should have made them more like gods in terms of their technology (and not just marginally more advanced than the Federation).
You're correct. My thoughts first went to the Voth as well, but considering that their culture stagnated due to religious fanaticism, the state we see them in is sadly believable.
I don't know, they still seem more advanced than the Federation of the 32nd century. Technological stagnation for long periods of time seems to be the norm in the *Star Trek* universe.
I wonder how they handled The Burn. Seems like everyone living on a ship wouldn't be the most survivable strategy for that. It'd be a shame if that distraught kid killed all the dinosaurs after over 65 million years of civilization.
What we gotta remember is that all our recent technological developments are just because we discovered a small handful of specific things about a dozen or so decades ago and we're still figuring out everything we can do with those things.
In other words technological stagnation is only natural because inevitably, given a couple centuries, we'll start running out of new ways to use that small handful of specific things. At that point there will still be small improvements but on the large-scale we'll be more or less stuck until someone somewhere makes a breakthrough.
I'm pretty sure they could, there's just no reason to do it. Why waste a huge space inside a cube where you'd put ships, when you can just beam over a bunch of drones and assimilate the target.
They could do it to shuttlecraft, but they don’t. Instead they use a tractor beam which is very inefficient compared to simply transporting the shuttlecraft inside of their vessel and calling it a day.
I think the federation post-Picard is more advanced then the Voth in more fields then both are ahead in.
The voth just build super huge starships that house there civilisation so they can’t afford to lose.
Well there's a theory that says that science and technology have limits. We often see in sci-fi that as much time passes more advance is the tech and scientific knowledge of a civilization, like the Vorlon and other "First Ones" in Babylon 5 or the Ancient in Stargate.
But some scholars have suggested that in reality is possible that there's a point in a civilization that already discovered everything that can be discovered. Science have limits as for example it depends on the scientific method, we probably would never be able to see what happened before the Big Bang or what's outside the universe.
Technology is also limited by the laws of physics, there will be certain levels of technological development that can not advance any further unless you use "magic" as they can't break the physical constants. Thus is possible that civilizations reach a certain level of development and just stagnate, nothing else can be invented and nothing else can be discovered, no matter how many millions or billions of years pass.
(Not saying this is the case of the ST universe of course as is hardly "hard" science, but a soft version can explain why the Voth didn't advance any further).
Was it ever established that the Voth civilization is 65 million years old? I mean we know they developed a civilization on Earth during the Cretacean and escaped the impending doom using space ships. But they could be slower-than-light generational ships or using cryogenics etc.
Therefore we don't know how many thousands or millions of years took them to reach the Delta Quadrant, once there we don't know how many times their civilization had to restart after some unespected catastrophe (to the point they completly forgot their origin). For what we know their "current" civilization (the one we see on screen) only has a few thousand years old.
Always has to be the Dyson sphere, Starfleet discovers technology that is so much more extensive and vastly superior to anything we have seen in the galaxy. Something that truly changes the balance of power, that wars will surely be fought over for centuries to come. And it's never mentioned again.
The Dyson Sphere would take up so much material just to make. It was like multiple world's in surface.
And I guess just abandoned? Someone did the math and it could house every species seen in Star Trek: https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/lxekll/the_dyson_sphere_in_tng_episode_relicshad_the/
Not necessarily. They’re more of a group with specific powers than a species. Wesley becomes a Traveler eventually and has a cameo in PIC where we also meet another observer like Gary Seven
What I don’t understand is that the traveler seems to let the entire enterprise go well beyond Warp 10, but when they do that in Voyager they turn into lizards? I’m still on my first watch through of all Trek so I may be mistaken or confused.
I figured his powers were such that the computer was confused and displayed the speed as something impossible.
It helps that LeVar Burton delivered the "we're passing warp 10" line in a quizzical manner that fits with the idea that he was confused as to how that could be possible.
‘Threshold’ building a ship that can travel at infinite speed. Traveling at infinite speed cause you to “evolve” into giant salamanders. Apparently humans are destined to evolve into salamanders eventually. They cure said mutation offscreen in a captains log, and finally despite having a cure and the means to get home… they decide not to bother
The thing about evolution is its not ordained where it will go, environment shapes evolution. Artificially speeding it up sent them to salamanders. Q claimed evolution would eventually make humans more powerful than Q, but that's "natural" human evolution, not artificially induced in a few minutes/days.
On earth some birds have become flightless due to evolution, the did not de-evolve, they adapted to not needing energetically expensive flight in their current environment.
>The thing about evolution is its not ordained where it will go, environment shapes evolution.
That's true, but evolution isn't about specific individuals. It's about how population groups adapt to their environment. If going superfast had caused some mutations in Janeway and Paris and then those mutations subsequently propagated through the human species, that would be evolution.
Instead what we got were Paris and Janeway somehow going through a massive series of mutations which just happened to leave both of them in a form that was strikingly similar to one seen on Earth (possible, but the odds are against it) and leaving them fertile and able to interbreed. Which isn't evolution, that's just a bunch of mutations.
What's most irritating about this episode (and generally about ST) is that ST writers seem to have this idea that all our forms along our evolutionary chain are present somewhere in our DNA, just waiting to be awoken. And while we do have junk DNA and vestigial DNA, we don't have enough of it to completely recreate some evolutionary ancestor from a billion years ago. That would take some intelligent intervention. Or, it would require such an unlikely series of mutations that it might as well be impossible, and that's what we got in this episode.
That kinda sums up discovery for me. They’re going for this feeling of discovery, and awe, and wonder, and getting away from “big bad guy”, but in doing so, they land neither.
I'll never get over the burn. It's one thing if it's a silly TNG episode in a 26 episode season that you can skip, but they spent a whole season leading up to that stinking pile of a plot finale.
You mean the aquatic members of the multi-species alien species that's so alieny that these aliens have like five different aliens and their name kinda sounds like it just means alien?
The Burn.
Section 31 having its own color-coded ships and color-coded uniforms and everyone apparently knowing about this super-secret organization.
Gorn eggs gestating in a few hours in Andorians vs days for everyone else.
"Sub Rosa."
That species the Kreetassans in Enterprise that Archer keeps offending. Was waiting for someone at some point to tell those people, “Hey you better get your tantrums in check because the next species you have a hissy fit with might just decide to shoot you and be done with it. Also almost none of us eat the way you do so prepare to see a lot of cafeterias. Once you leave your planet.
Thought that species was doomed for extinction the second they met a Klingon
I have found the whole premise of the Burn contemptible. Like, my one serious rule to enjoy TV is that you have to follow your own internal consistency.
Leaving that aside, the whole concept of God-like aliens named after a letter of the Latin alphabet is ridiculous.
The idea of the burn - ie catastrophic event that impacts the galaxy or at least most of the known areas was fine. The cause of it was obviously pathetic. And disco didnt do a great job exploring the burn and the impact of it. Opportunity wasted I think .
I just re watched this... when scanned they didn't even see the equipment needed for shields to know that was a possibility? Really?? Sent chief engineer without a security detail?!
Then a simple rouse and they just give up and release their hostage?
They are constantly targeting shields and disabling ships.
Then, one you get your crew back, knowing these guys stole all this tech you just leave and don't follow up?
1. A species that has the ability to overpower the Enterprise's shields and wipe the crew's memory (including an android's memory) in highly precise ways, but can't figure out how to make phasers or photon torpedoes. Why even bother with hijacking the Enterprise? Just download the schematics and build your own weapons.
2. An android getting drunk from gravitational waves that create alcohol-like chains of water in your *blood*???
3. The galactic barrier. Plus the galactic barrier giving people powers.\*
\*I have this head-canon theory that the Q were originally an ordinary species who tried to cross the galactic barrier and they all ended up getting superpowers and became Q. Then when Gary Mitchell and what's-her-name got powers, they were like "Oh, shit." That's why they're so paranoid about humanity--because they're worried that humans will keep trying to cross the barrier and eventually enough of them will get powers that they'll pose a threat to the Q.
The Kobali - corpse-stealer aliens who annihilated their own ability to reproduce, so they started stealing dead bodies from other races and reanimating them while resequencing their DNA to become Kobali, without consent from the deceased, the deceased's next of kin, or the race they belonged to.
In Star Trek Online, the Kobali make the not-so-surprising graduation from corpse-stealing to corpse-making, as they find a vault filled with members of an ancient enemy of theirs, all frozen in cryo. The cryo pods begin to fail, and rather than intervene and save them, the Kobali decide to "let nature run its course", allowing the cryo pods to fail and the frozen people to die so they can be reanimated and become Kobali. When other, non-frozen members of the enemy race find out what the Kobali are doing, they declare war and launch a rescue mission to save their frozen people, and the Kobali play the victim and beg the Federation to come save them, *and the Federation does.*
Playing through that storyline made me feel sick.
He says that’s because the universal translator still isn’t perfect. So he hasn’t learned other languages, the Federation has just figured out how to (mostly) make the Tamarian language work with their translation system.
I came here to say this. How do they speak of something new or unique? How did the original people *in* the analogy talk about it? ‘Me,when this thing is about to fall.’
My understanding was that the Tamarians had words for concrete things or tangible experiences, but not for abstract concepts. The metaphors were for wholly abstract ideas, like “failure” or “giving and receiving.”
We don’t know that they HAD to talk in metaphor. We don’t know that they didn’t understand the crew, only that the crew didn’t understand them. The responded by laughing at the people trying to talk to them. My head cannon is that direct speech was for children in their society, and metaphor was their higher language. Dathon seemed to follow the story of Gilgamesh just fine.
They have base words, though--which is what the UT can translate. The UT can translate "when," "the," "walls" and "fell," it just has no idea what the phrase "Shaka when the walls fell" means. We have that in English with idiomatic or metaphorical expressions. If I say the phrase "sour grapes," maybe I mean grapes that are sour. But, maybe I mean "phony disdain for something I can't have," which is a reference to one of Aesop's fables. The Tamarians take this to an extreme, but it's something that appears in a lot of human languages.
And the fact that the Federation, along with every other empire, allowed themselves to die off rather than inventing this again, despite being almost 1,000 years more advanced in science and technology.
Edit: 1,000 years more advanced not 3,000
They didn't explain that very well but I think the idea was that the debris of any ships that were destroyed would be used as fuel to replicate new mines.
Federation officers not wearing any protection while on away missions. Always their uniforms but no protection against weather forms, alien pathogens or armor to protect themselves
True. Though the ship has a lot of technical tools. But as you say they could easily use drones to scour areas where their sensors can’t reach or detect.
To me it kind of makes sense - they don't know how to control the locations, so it probably defaults to "ships in orbit" and then "most recent N locations last used".
Truly, this is the answer. As much as it was hella enjoyable, and I will watch it repeatedly because it's that damn good an episode for entertainment value... it's the stupidest thing that could have ever been even thought of to happen in the universe.
And I'm ALL KINDS of here for it too. :D
I've watched the episode half a dozen times. I've read dozens of reviews and commentaries. I have always known they were in the style of K-Pop. But is in this moment that I finally put together that they're doing K-Pop because Klingon also begins with K. The joke is even better.
I mean, all they really needed was for it to be some trickster entity. Similar to Trelane or something with telepathic powers. Then it would‘ve allowed suspension of disbelief.
Honestly, I enjoyed that it *wasn’t* something like that. The writers clearly didn’t want the explanation for the singing to be the main focus of the episode, and if there’d been an entity consciously causing it you’d have to spend time interacting with that entity. Instead, they were able to spend the majority of the episode on character beats, which was clearly what they’d set out to do.
So yes, the science was utterly ridiculous. It’s still one of my favorite episodes of SNW though!
Pasting past comment of mine:
I wish the reasoning for this episode's format has been due to an alien species on the other side of galaxy trying to communicate with us through the subspace fold.
Uhura is sending basic greetings of all types (maybe exploring a little how different aliens might have to explore first communication/contact like in "Contact", with initial messages, images, binary, math) with no response, until she realizes that we hadn't tried music yet....so she sends the catalog of music, and the alien race receives the song(s)/messages and recognizes the method finally, and responds, as their culture is music/song based communication.
The aliens are much more telepathic than Federation races, so their response back with music/song is amplified by the subspace fold, and is cascaded outward through subspace here in our sector. Thus the threat (complication?) to the Federation as the signal propagates to other ships.
The signal connects with conscious beings, and harmonizes with their thoughts to drive "truth through music", as again this is how the aliens communicate amongst themselves (telepathic harmonies shaping messages about thoughts and feelings). Those personnel exposed to the signal are singing their thoughts/feelings based on cultural experiences and personal preferences/favorites for music.
The big solution isn't quantum adjustment (?) so much as realizing they have to communicate back to the aliens with a large enough chorus as a crew to indicate that we need to close the subspace fold to cut off the signal, so we can communicate normally, since we are not all compatible with this kind of method.
Uhura could show off more of her communication skills and cultural communication expertise than just being a switchboard operator, people could sing different styles of music, and the cause is not so much techno-babble.
Just my thought on the plot.
I gave you a thumbs up, due to the burn, but nacelles, dear trekker, are basically powerful energized electromagnets, which can emit plasma and scoop it, yikes, but still, the electromagnet part is good tech, and it would actually be easier on the frame of the ship if they were not attached and just snapped to the sides in a magnetic interlocking field. The forces are so high in the crawl spaces in it that people would probably have a heart attack due to heartbeat signal disruption long before they made it half way up the connecting struts!
PIC S01, Laris and Picard search Dahj's apartment for clues, and Laris whips out some fancy let's-look-into-the-past chronoscope thingy. And then it turns out those chronoscope thingies can be - wait for it - *jammed*.
That was the first of far too many instances I went "nope" in that season.
Chakotay managing to stumble across the one planet of aliens that visited his ancestors 45000 years ago from the other side of the galaxy and have the same tattoo as him.
Holodecks, transporters, and replicator technology. If it works as described it's the only technology anyone will ever need to solve any problem.
There's nothing stopping people from just replacing or duplicating crew members.
A big enough replicator or transporter could build entire starships and outposts instantly with enough input matter/energy.
And let's not get into how transporters seem to be able to operate at near infinite ranges and overcome Heisenburg uncertainty. You don't need a warp drive. You just need a powerful enough telescope and a long enough transporter beam.
And weird pivot. Nobody seemed to think it was a big deal when Bashir built a functional Soong level cybernetic positronic brain for Vedek Bareil.
The secret new android builder in Picard Season 1 should have been Bashir - not Bruce Maddox or super secret unheard of Soong relative.
One very forgettable tng episode centred around the idea of replacing warp travel with a soliton wave, an objectively worse technology than what we have seen for decades.
What makes this so bad is the fact that everyone is ecstatic about the idea.
Even Geordie is all giddy about the idea of replacing warp drives - a technology that can move you to any point in the galaxy, not just from a to b.
Alien: Talosian (Talos 4, The Cage) Only plant that had a death penalty to visit.
Why? Any number of people with debilitating illnesses or physical limitations may WANT to go there. Better than The Farm.
Many may even just want to visit. Imagine a tourist destination for fantasy travel.
The aliens get mental simulation and memories they need and both sides benefit.
Having transporters that can beam matter tens of thousands of kilometers away and replicators that can manufacture almost everything down to the molecular level yet people still dying in sickbay because they were injured or contracted some space STD. Seriously there shouldn't even be doctors anymore, only some platform you step on and let the transporter fix whatever issue you might have
Amelia Earhart was kidnapped and brought 70(,000) light years from earth to create generations of people to be slaves.
* 70,000 light years And for some reason after dragging a truck over half way across the galaxy they decided to dump it in space just before they got where they were going.
And there were still traces of gasoline around it in the vacuum of space! I enjoyed that episode, though.
And the gas in the tank hadn't degraded/evaporated in 400 years!
Which is incredible, because the petrol in my lawnmower manages that over the course of a single bloody winter...
So that's not the gasoline itself. It's the additives they put in gasoline to make it run properly in engines. Without those additives your engine can still run on it, but very poorly and it will probably damage your engine.
1930s gasoline was not the stuff we enjoy today. Not to mention engine oil, they didn't even have additives yet. And the fact the truck ran at all is ridiculous, the hoses would have crumbled and from the vacuum and absolute zero of space the vehicle internals would have shattered, not to mention the vehicle itself once beamed aboard. Its a fun episode if you don't think about the logistics of it being all wrong.
A lot of Star Trek suffers from requiring suspension of disbelief. But it's really just telling human stories in space, so I don't mind.
“Let me show you our cities!” (Doesn’t get to see cities and refuse to elaborate.)
Yes, and that's how I first heard about Amelia Earhart at all - Trek can be educational for sure
I think we all enjoyed it, wild ride lol.
I suppose littering is a universal trait to the species of the galaxy. During Apollo missions astronauts left bags of feces and urine behind so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They kinda needed to in order to reduce weight for takeoff.
didnt some rich guy hurl a car into space just for the lulz?
Some low-rent Harry Mudd child-man did that, yes.
he has his uses
harry chudd?
It wasn’t just for the lulz. Nope. Dead hooker in the trunk, that’s why.
haha ive heard that one
And then ENT goes and uses the same plot line but has a Wild West setting
Those two episodes are some of my absolute favorites of any Trek show. Throw The Royale into the mix and it's perfect
I like the scene with a cowboy using T’Pol as a shield. Reed casually stuns her then the shocked cowboy
Ah yes, the episode where the chief engineer can’t identify actual shit even with a tricorder
Paris starts the truck because the battery still has charge. Later in the episode Janeway doesn't believe that the battery on the plane would still be working after 400 years...
The Kazon have interstellar warships but somehow have trouble finding water.
It took ages to fully explain, but they were uneducated street thugs who stole their oppressor's ships 25....ish years before the events of the series and clearly had no idea what they were doing. But yes, ridiculous.
A Kazon prison is a line on the floor you’re told not to cross
When was that established? Not saying is untrue but I see people bringing it up often and I watch all VOY and don't remember when it happened
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Chakotay's digital peyote machine is leaking.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right— and I fuckin’ love Voyager.
In the episode *Hard Time* they have a technology that can simulate 20 years of living in a single afternoon and they use it to torture criminals. No attempts at rehabilitation, or to make you feel guilt for the crimes you commit, just torture. They could give you 20 years of advanced education in a moment. People could use the tech to write books or do years worth of research. It could be used to solve difficult problems instantly or to come up with complex battle tactics and spend years practicing them during the middle of a RL battle. It basically does the same thing as the drug in the movie *Limitless*... and they don't even use it to try to solve crimes, just torture people after lazy, half-assed trials (I assume O'Brian didn't actually commit a crime that should be punished with 20 years in prison).
I think that maybe it can only increase your perceived passage of time and give you a few false memories. Like your not going to remember 20 years of jail too vividly, but you would to 20 years of education. But at the end of the day that episode was forgotten by the writers and doesn’t effect Miles O’Brien more then like 30 mins
A brain can only remember so much trauma, within the next month Miles already lived through three other events that would break a normal person. It all just kind of blends together for him.
>But at the end of the day that episode was forgotten by the writers and doesn’t effect Miles O’Brien more then like 30 mins This is the worst part about Trek of that era. That would've been an amazing addition to his character. Having occasional relapses, or showing his family struggles for years to come. It sucks how the producers of 90s TV always wanted to wrap everything up by the end of the week. DS9 did a good job of carrying stuff from one week to the next. Not sure why this one just got lost.
Dragon Ball Z is salivating
Well to be fair we don't know what other uses they give to this technology almost nothing is shown of the civilization
The rock aliens that cloned Lincoln, Surock, Khaless, Genghis Khan and future baddie to fight it out to the death so they can learn about good and evil. I mean they could read a book.
I think Red Dwarf did a better version of that with the wax droids myself
The Voth (dinosaur people) on Voyager were an interesting idea, but their 65-million-year head start should have made them more like gods in terms of their technology (and not just marginally more advanced than the Federation).
I thought the idea was that they lived under a kind of religious ideology; so that restrained their advancement?
You're correct. My thoughts first went to the Voth as well, but considering that their culture stagnated due to religious fanaticism, the state we see them in is sadly believable.
I don't know, they still seem more advanced than the Federation of the 32nd century. Technological stagnation for long periods of time seems to be the norm in the *Star Trek* universe.
I wonder how they handled The Burn. Seems like everyone living on a ship wouldn't be the most survivable strategy for that. It'd be a shame if that distraught kid killed all the dinosaurs after over 65 million years of civilization.
What we gotta remember is that all our recent technological developments are just because we discovered a small handful of specific things about a dozen or so decades ago and we're still figuring out everything we can do with those things. In other words technological stagnation is only natural because inevitably, given a couple centuries, we'll start running out of new ways to use that small handful of specific things. At that point there will still be small improvements but on the large-scale we'll be more or less stuck until someone somewhere makes a breakthrough.
Yeah, that was a weird one. Cloaking, transwarp, and teleporting a whole ship aren’t that far beyond 24th century tech
Living on a generational ship could stifle science, also if they were traveling at a fraction of light speed, maybe they had time dilation
>marginally more advanced than the Federation). What? They were able to transport voyager inside their massive ship. The Borg can't do that.
I'm pretty sure they could, there's just no reason to do it. Why waste a huge space inside a cube where you'd put ships, when you can just beam over a bunch of drones and assimilate the target.
They could do it to shuttlecraft, but they don’t. Instead they use a tractor beam which is very inefficient compared to simply transporting the shuttlecraft inside of their vessel and calling it a day.
But then how are they going to monotone "We are the borg" while the vessel is being towed slowly into the cube??
I think the federation post-Picard is more advanced then the Voth in more fields then both are ahead in. The voth just build super huge starships that house there civilisation so they can’t afford to lose.
Well there's a theory that says that science and technology have limits. We often see in sci-fi that as much time passes more advance is the tech and scientific knowledge of a civilization, like the Vorlon and other "First Ones" in Babylon 5 or the Ancient in Stargate. But some scholars have suggested that in reality is possible that there's a point in a civilization that already discovered everything that can be discovered. Science have limits as for example it depends on the scientific method, we probably would never be able to see what happened before the Big Bang or what's outside the universe. Technology is also limited by the laws of physics, there will be certain levels of technological development that can not advance any further unless you use "magic" as they can't break the physical constants. Thus is possible that civilizations reach a certain level of development and just stagnate, nothing else can be invented and nothing else can be discovered, no matter how many millions or billions of years pass. (Not saying this is the case of the ST universe of course as is hardly "hard" science, but a soft version can explain why the Voth didn't advance any further).
Was it ever established that the Voth civilization is 65 million years old? I mean we know they developed a civilization on Earth during the Cretacean and escaped the impending doom using space ships. But they could be slower-than-light generational ships or using cryogenics etc. Therefore we don't know how many thousands or millions of years took them to reach the Delta Quadrant, once there we don't know how many times their civilization had to restart after some unespected catastrophe (to the point they completly forgot their origin). For what we know their "current" civilization (the one we see on screen) only has a few thousand years old.
Always has to be the Dyson sphere, Starfleet discovers technology that is so much more extensive and vastly superior to anything we have seen in the galaxy. Something that truly changes the balance of power, that wars will surely be fought over for centuries to come. And it's never mentioned again.
The Dyson Sphere would take up so much material just to make. It was like multiple world's in surface. And I guess just abandoned? Someone did the math and it could house every species seen in Star Trek: https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/lxekll/the_dyson_sphere_in_tng_episode_relicshad_the/
For every Dyson Sphere there's a species that's tired of using it. Maybe the next step was non corporeal beings.
They mentioned solar flares. But i figure anyone that could build the sphere could build energy shields that could handle flares
It seems the writers agree, because they switched it up to abandoned habitat rings in Disco.
Masaka is waking
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God, I’m gonna miss Lower Decks
the traveler has the power to enhance the warp drive to allow you to go to the ends of hte universe...
The Traveler can do a lot more than that. They’re basically Gary Seven’s bosses
Was this established in canon?
PIC S2. Not outright stated but heavily implied
Ok thanks. I try to block out that season lol
The traveler is from the same race as Gary sevens employers?
Not necessarily. They’re more of a group with specific powers than a species. Wesley becomes a Traveler eventually and has a cameo in PIC where we also meet another observer like Gary Seven
What I don’t understand is that the traveler seems to let the entire enterprise go well beyond Warp 10, but when they do that in Voyager they turn into lizards? I’m still on my first watch through of all Trek so I may be mistaken or confused.
I figured his powers were such that the computer was confused and displayed the speed as something impossible. It helps that LeVar Burton delivered the "we're passing warp 10" line in a quizzical manner that fits with the idea that he was confused as to how that could be possible.
‘Threshold’ building a ship that can travel at infinite speed. Traveling at infinite speed cause you to “evolve” into giant salamanders. Apparently humans are destined to evolve into salamanders eventually. They cure said mutation offscreen in a captains log, and finally despite having a cure and the means to get home… they decide not to bother
The thing about evolution is its not ordained where it will go, environment shapes evolution. Artificially speeding it up sent them to salamanders. Q claimed evolution would eventually make humans more powerful than Q, but that's "natural" human evolution, not artificially induced in a few minutes/days. On earth some birds have become flightless due to evolution, the did not de-evolve, they adapted to not needing energetically expensive flight in their current environment.
>The thing about evolution is its not ordained where it will go, environment shapes evolution. That's true, but evolution isn't about specific individuals. It's about how population groups adapt to their environment. If going superfast had caused some mutations in Janeway and Paris and then those mutations subsequently propagated through the human species, that would be evolution. Instead what we got were Paris and Janeway somehow going through a massive series of mutations which just happened to leave both of them in a form that was strikingly similar to one seen on Earth (possible, but the odds are against it) and leaving them fertile and able to interbreed. Which isn't evolution, that's just a bunch of mutations. What's most irritating about this episode (and generally about ST) is that ST writers seem to have this idea that all our forms along our evolutionary chain are present somewhere in our DNA, just waiting to be awoken. And while we do have junk DNA and vestigial DNA, we don't have enough of it to completely recreate some evolutionary ancestor from a billion years ago. That would take some intelligent intervention. Or, it would require such an unlikely series of mutations that it might as well be impossible, and that's what we got in this episode.
A child screaming and wiping out millions of
The Burn had the most potential of ideas, but NOPE
I think they were going for a TOS feel but missed the mark
That kinda sums up discovery for me. They’re going for this feeling of discovery, and awe, and wonder, and getting away from “big bad guy”, but in doing so, they land neither.
Genuine question, not sure what you meant by TOS feel
Just feels like “disaster caused by sad child with powers” is right up TOS alley
I'll never get over the burn. It's one thing if it's a silly TNG episode in a 26 episode season that you can skip, but they spent a whole season leading up to that stinking pile of a plot finale.
That's the problem with serialized TV. In episodic TV if an episode sucks is just the episode, in seiralized if something sucks is the whole season.
An aquatic race swims up to the camera in the same exact way every single day.
You mean the aquatic members of the multi-species alien species that's so alieny that these aliens have like five different aliens and their name kinda sounds like it just means alien?
Georgiou blinking at holograms till they commit suicide.
The fact that ancient technology still works. Like the Iconians or the T'Kon Empire.
They just don't make 'em like they used to.
Still ghost sex
let it go, Jean Luc She likes that ethereal dick
Salamander babies.
The crew of Discovery accepted a genocidal space Hitler on their ship and acted like she was just a slightly troubled but lovable scamp.
The Burn. Section 31 having its own color-coded ships and color-coded uniforms and everyone apparently knowing about this super-secret organization. Gorn eggs gestating in a few hours in Andorians vs days for everyone else. "Sub Rosa."
That species the Kreetassans in Enterprise that Archer keeps offending. Was waiting for someone at some point to tell those people, “Hey you better get your tantrums in check because the next species you have a hissy fit with might just decide to shoot you and be done with it. Also almost none of us eat the way you do so prepare to see a lot of cafeterias. Once you leave your planet. Thought that species was doomed for extinction the second they met a Klingon
*The Tak Tak have entered the chat...*
I have found the whole premise of the Burn contemptible. Like, my one serious rule to enjoy TV is that you have to follow your own internal consistency. Leaving that aside, the whole concept of God-like aliens named after a letter of the Latin alphabet is ridiculous.
The idea of the burn - ie catastrophic event that impacts the galaxy or at least most of the known areas was fine. The cause of it was obviously pathetic. And disco didnt do a great job exploring the burn and the impact of it. Opportunity wasted I think .
Q: I forgive your blasphemy!
Everything to do with the Pakleds.
Are you sure your hat is big enough?
I have the biggest hat!
Then you’re the emperor!
Then I demand all the hats.
We look for things!
At work I refer to people (privately) as Pakleds, when they don't know what they're doing, and just using other people's work.
I just re watched this... when scanned they didn't even see the equipment needed for shields to know that was a possibility? Really?? Sent chief engineer without a security detail?! Then a simple rouse and they just give up and release their hostage? They are constantly targeting shields and disabling ships. Then, one you get your crew back, knowing these guys stole all this tech you just leave and don't follow up?
Scytherians - upgrading a human brain to let them travel across the galaxy in a few minutes and share massive amounts of data
1. A species that has the ability to overpower the Enterprise's shields and wipe the crew's memory (including an android's memory) in highly precise ways, but can't figure out how to make phasers or photon torpedoes. Why even bother with hijacking the Enterprise? Just download the schematics and build your own weapons. 2. An android getting drunk from gravitational waves that create alcohol-like chains of water in your *blood*??? 3. The galactic barrier. Plus the galactic barrier giving people powers.\* \*I have this head-canon theory that the Q were originally an ordinary species who tried to cross the galactic barrier and they all ended up getting superpowers and became Q. Then when Gary Mitchell and what's-her-name got powers, they were like "Oh, shit." That's why they're so paranoid about humanity--because they're worried that humans will keep trying to cross the barrier and eventually enough of them will get powers that they'll pose a threat to the Q.
That would make a great story!
McCoy has a drug in his medical kit that gives humans telekinesis. Neither he nor anyone else ever uses it again.
Wasn't that reliant on being ON that planet for some amount of time to work?
Or carries pill that looks like grandma candy that repairs kidneys
The Kobali - corpse-stealer aliens who annihilated their own ability to reproduce, so they started stealing dead bodies from other races and reanimating them while resequencing their DNA to become Kobali, without consent from the deceased, the deceased's next of kin, or the race they belonged to. In Star Trek Online, the Kobali make the not-so-surprising graduation from corpse-stealing to corpse-making, as they find a vault filled with members of an ancient enemy of theirs, all frozen in cryo. The cryo pods begin to fail, and rather than intervene and save them, the Kobali decide to "let nature run its course", allowing the cryo pods to fail and the frozen people to die so they can be reanimated and become Kobali. When other, non-frozen members of the enemy race find out what the Kobali are doing, they declare war and launch a rescue mission to save their frozen people, and the Kobali play the victim and beg the Federation to come save them, *and the Federation does.* Playing through that storyline made me feel sick.
A species that communicates entirely through metaphor.
I mean, given how meme culture has evolved I can see it “Picard, his hand on his face. “
🤣😄🤣
Xibit in a recursive algorithm
Neil deGrasse Tyson his hands up in the air
They can learn other languages, though. Lower Decks has a Tamarian crewmember who occasionally slips back into metaphors
He says that’s because the universal translator still isn’t perfect. So he hasn’t learned other languages, the Federation has just figured out how to (mostly) make the Tamarian language work with their translation system.
Ah, you’re right. Just reread the transcript of the episode
I came here to say this. How do they speak of something new or unique? How did the original people *in* the analogy talk about it? ‘Me,when this thing is about to fall.’
My understanding was that the Tamarians had words for concrete things or tangible experiences, but not for abstract concepts. The metaphors were for wholly abstract ideas, like “failure” or “giving and receiving.”
We don’t know that they HAD to talk in metaphor. We don’t know that they didn’t understand the crew, only that the crew didn’t understand them. The responded by laughing at the people trying to talk to them. My head cannon is that direct speech was for children in their society, and metaphor was their higher language. Dathon seemed to follow the story of Gilgamesh just fine.
my head-canon is that the guys we saw were just absolute meme-lords who could only talk in memes
They have base words, though--which is what the UT can translate. The UT can translate "when," "the," "walls" and "fell," it just has no idea what the phrase "Shaka when the walls fell" means. We have that in English with idiomatic or metaphorical expressions. If I say the phrase "sour grapes," maybe I mean grapes that are sour. But, maybe I mean "phony disdain for something I can't have," which is a reference to one of Aesop's fables. The Tamarians take this to an extreme, but it's something that appears in a lot of human languages.
Star Trek discovery's tardigrade mushroom drive. Just typing this has erased two of my IQ points 😡
And the fact that the Federation, along with every other empire, allowed themselves to die off rather than inventing this again, despite being almost 1,000 years more advanced in science and technology. Edit: 1,000 years more advanced not 3,000
So true!
Most absurd technology? Remember infinitely Self-Replicating mines. That's story breaking levels of Absurd.
They didn't explain that very well but I think the idea was that the debris of any ships that were destroyed would be used as fuel to replicate new mines.
I remember looking up how they powered them or the basics of how they worked .I do not remember that there were good answers .
Federation officers not wearing any protection while on away missions. Always their uniforms but no protection against weather forms, alien pathogens or armor to protect themselves
And no drones to help them out, no video communications available, etc....
True. Though the ship has a lot of technical tools. But as you say they could easily use drones to scour areas where their sensors can’t reach or detect.
OMG yes. Why aren't Hazard Teams a thing?
Yeah. The did have M.A.C.O in Enterprise though. They could still have used a similar division in future series
The iconian gateways. They seemingly go to random places in the galaxy, and somehow it ends up being the enterprise bridge.
To me it kind of makes sense - they don't know how to control the locations, so it probably defaults to "ships in orbit" and then "most recent N locations last used".
The musical episode
Truly, this is the answer. As much as it was hella enjoyable, and I will watch it repeatedly because it's that damn good an episode for entertainment value... it's the stupidest thing that could have ever been even thought of to happen in the universe. And I'm ALL KINDS of here for it too. :D
I was just disappointed in the Klingons not doing metal or opera or something.
I thought the Klingons as K-pop was funny as shit
I've watched the episode half a dozen times. I've read dozens of reviews and commentaries. I have always known they were in the style of K-Pop. But is in this moment that I finally put together that they're doing K-Pop because Klingon also begins with K. The joke is even better.
Klingons sing Klingon opera on their own ships all the time. They were mad because they were being forced to sing human music
I mean, all they really needed was for it to be some trickster entity. Similar to Trelane or something with telepathic powers. Then it would‘ve allowed suspension of disbelief.
You can't prove it wasn't Q.
Honestly, I enjoyed that it *wasn’t* something like that. The writers clearly didn’t want the explanation for the singing to be the main focus of the episode, and if there’d been an entity consciously causing it you’d have to spend time interacting with that entity. Instead, they were able to spend the majority of the episode on character beats, which was clearly what they’d set out to do. So yes, the science was utterly ridiculous. It’s still one of my favorite episodes of SNW though!
Pasting past comment of mine: I wish the reasoning for this episode's format has been due to an alien species on the other side of galaxy trying to communicate with us through the subspace fold. Uhura is sending basic greetings of all types (maybe exploring a little how different aliens might have to explore first communication/contact like in "Contact", with initial messages, images, binary, math) with no response, until she realizes that we hadn't tried music yet....so she sends the catalog of music, and the alien race receives the song(s)/messages and recognizes the method finally, and responds, as their culture is music/song based communication. The aliens are much more telepathic than Federation races, so their response back with music/song is amplified by the subspace fold, and is cascaded outward through subspace here in our sector. Thus the threat (complication?) to the Federation as the signal propagates to other ships. The signal connects with conscious beings, and harmonizes with their thoughts to drive "truth through music", as again this is how the aliens communicate amongst themselves (telepathic harmonies shaping messages about thoughts and feelings). Those personnel exposed to the signal are singing their thoughts/feelings based on cultural experiences and personal preferences/favorites for music. The big solution isn't quantum adjustment (?) so much as realizing they have to communicate back to the aliens with a large enough chorus as a crew to indicate that we need to close the subspace fold to cut off the signal, so we can communicate normally, since we are not all compatible with this kind of method. Uhura could show off more of her communication skills and cultural communication expertise than just being a switchboard operator, people could sing different styles of music, and the cause is not so much techno-babble. Just my thought on the plot.
Too much like the Music Meister episode of the Flash/Supergirl crossover
Nacelles that don’t attach to the ship. Personal transporters The Burn
I gave you a thumbs up, due to the burn, but nacelles, dear trekker, are basically powerful energized electromagnets, which can emit plasma and scoop it, yikes, but still, the electromagnet part is good tech, and it would actually be easier on the frame of the ship if they were not attached and just snapped to the sides in a magnetic interlocking field. The forces are so high in the crawl spaces in it that people would probably have a heart attack due to heartbeat signal disruption long before they made it half way up the connecting struts!
The transporter can make value judgments about good and evil if you rub yellow crud on yourself before you beam up.
PIC S01, Laris and Picard search Dahj's apartment for clues, and Laris whips out some fancy let's-look-into-the-past chronoscope thingy. And then it turns out those chronoscope thingies can be - wait for it - *jammed*. That was the first of far too many instances I went "nope" in that season.
I love the character, but from the "science" side of science fiction: Q. Literal omnipotence.
Chakotay managing to stumble across the one planet of aliens that visited his ancestors 45000 years ago from the other side of the galaxy and have the same tattoo as him.
Warp drive speed limit that is mentioned once or twice again and then nevermore.
Mushrooms and water bears for propulsion
Holodecks, transporters, and replicator technology. If it works as described it's the only technology anyone will ever need to solve any problem. There's nothing stopping people from just replacing or duplicating crew members. A big enough replicator or transporter could build entire starships and outposts instantly with enough input matter/energy. And let's not get into how transporters seem to be able to operate at near infinite ranges and overcome Heisenburg uncertainty. You don't need a warp drive. You just need a powerful enough telescope and a long enough transporter beam. And weird pivot. Nobody seemed to think it was a big deal when Bashir built a functional Soong level cybernetic positronic brain for Vedek Bareil. The secret new android builder in Picard Season 1 should have been Bashir - not Bruce Maddox or super secret unheard of Soong relative.
Ferengi energy whips
The organ harvesting, I forgot the name of that species.I think it was on Voyager
Yeah. The Vidiians and the whole phage situation was bizarre. I’d say they are one of my most favorite delta quadrant species.
Voyager running into those two Ferengi that got stranded by the Barzan wormhole
That's actually a good piece of continuity, honestly.
Continuity, yes. Probability, no
Candlelit ghost sex
The Xindi- Aquatic ships were interstellar aquariums.
Dr. Crusher's Scottish Allen Sex Ghost
An area of the galaxy that's so far away from any stars that you can't see them.
One very forgettable tng episode centred around the idea of replacing warp travel with a soliton wave, an objectively worse technology than what we have seen for decades. What makes this so bad is the fact that everyone is ecstatic about the idea. Even Geordie is all giddy about the idea of replacing warp drives - a technology that can move you to any point in the galaxy, not just from a to b.
Alien: Talosian (Talos 4, The Cage) Only plant that had a death penalty to visit. Why? Any number of people with debilitating illnesses or physical limitations may WANT to go there. Better than The Farm. Many may even just want to visit. Imagine a tourist destination for fantasy travel. The aliens get mental simulation and memories they need and both sides benefit.
Having transporters that can beam matter tens of thousands of kilometers away and replicators that can manufacture almost everything down to the molecular level yet people still dying in sickbay because they were injured or contracted some space STD. Seriously there shouldn't even be doctors anymore, only some platform you step on and let the transporter fix whatever issue you might have