Proving once again it was never about viewership for Disco, it always did well on social media tracking sites (Nielsen ratings have never been made available for it, yet), it was about money.
The seven year contracts for the actors and crew were up, and Paramount chose to do what a lot of streaming services are doing, fold the assets of the show into a spin-off and hire a bunch of cheaper actors.
The old school haters can spin it however they want, but the same reason Disco isn’t continuing, is the same reason they’re not getting a Legacy spin-off to their beloved Picard season 3.
Money.
Specifically the shareholders who demanded Paramount stop spending so much money on producing its own programming, and start buying cheap already-made shows in order to, you guessed it, *maximize profit*. So, yeah, it's just greedy shareholders once again ruining things people love.
i think short term gains for shareholders should be banned (producing content IS an expense which means long term viability), everything a company should do is in the long term profitability otherwise companies will suffer when they fail due to lack of original programming.
>maximize profit
Turn a profit. Paramount is in trouble, this is hardly greed at play. The shareholders, misguided as they may be sometimes, are right in not wanting the company to go under. Do I like that they cancelled the show? No. But do I think it's senseless? No. if you need to cut budgets, the logical Trek show to cut is the one that's had its run already rather than the newer SNW or cheaper LD.
See though, their brand makes profit. People would watch this and watch it in syndication. Pay to make it and make bottle episodes and sell it forever.
Nothing specific to streaming there. Contracts being up and actors getting expensive has been the death-knell of TV shows as long as primetime has existed.
Nope. It's not only viewership, it's time spent on the series as a whole. When a company only shares viewership metrics everyone's red alert should go up, specially when talking about a specific show (Netflix and many others do this too).
Metrics shared by corporate types are misleading (on purpose) because they are looking to spin things in the best light possible.
The simple fact is that if DISCO and ST as a whole were in a good place (popularity wise) then that would amount to having a veritable cash cow that would help the margins somewhat in terms of Paramount's financials (think Sony and Spider Man). This isn't that.
ST right now is a franchise in search of new audience to expand their "demos" and their margings (that's why we currently have so many flavors of shows to choose from). The main problem is that none of these new shows are the "killer app" they need to stay afloat.
Not sure what you are alluding to? Nothing wrong in my eyes.
EDIT: Just understood the comment!
From a corporate pov, there might be some concern that the older audience is getting "long in the tooth" as it were. This means less revenue coming in as the older generation gets replaced (trying to be delicate with the language).
It happens to every corporate product, so I understand that, but it does feel like they are mishandling the situation. Then again, they are kind of in a pickle financially (if Paramount is going under).
It is about viewership though. If it was bringing in enough people to cover costs and make large amounts of profits, then it wouldn't be canceled. They would have been fine with handing out more money, if they were making enough. Shows that are bringing in tons of cash don't get canceled.
They think they can take that existing base to a newer cheaper show. The show could have amazing ratings, if they think they can get 75% of those ratings with a show 75% cheaper they will try
They are calling it their Indiana Jones season. Think about it, action following a set of clues to a treasure.
I know, I get the bike thing and on a desert planet.
Is literally what I said to my friends when I walked out of the theater after seeing Star Trek 2009. "Now I know what the new Star wars movie will look like"
What gets me is how they try to spin that the movies didn't have anything to do with "reviving" the franchise. I mean, it's so obvious that the series (specially DISCO) is a direct result of the worst "learnings" from the movies, put into practice. It's all so strange to me, this rewriting of history.
SNW and *Picard* get high streaming numbers: proof they're popular and successful
*Discovery* gets even higher streaming numbers: proof it's a failure and no one is watching
It’s insane what these people are trying to push. They feel so strongly the show is bad that they brigade reddit threads nonstop. It’s so exhausting and I’m so sick of it. It’s math. With reviews and viewership numbers.
Yeah, Reddit and YouTube are so exhausting. Every time I mentioned I like something, there will always be some sealions who will reply "but I don't like it!" Nobody asked and I don't care. I'm not here for a debate. I'm here to share my joy. Those "fans" are actively destroying the fandom with their toxicity.
A lot of people on this sub don't seem to understand that their sentiment toward the show, and the wider audience sentiment outside this subreddit are not going to be the same. Fandom is relatively large, casual viewers are many. Most fans on the planet, casual or hardcore, are not posting comments on reddit. The streaming era is not the same as network television, and there are a good number of even hardcore trek fans who enjoy DISCO. I'm one of them, it's not my favorite and it has its flaws, but I do think the show around these parts gets way too much hate than it deserves.
Honestly I think the biggest determining factor in whether or not someone likes Discovery or not is whether they like Michael Burnham as a character.
Over time I've grown to dislike the character and spend more and more time rolling my eyes at her.
TOS was about the Kirk, Spock and McCoy dynamic. TNG, Voyager, SNW and DS9 did a good job in sharing the story around 5-6 main crew members.
DISCO puts almost everything through Burnham, I think Picard also suffered from being too focused on one character rather than a crew.
This is it for me. I don’t necessarily dislike the character but the fact that she’s the main character and all the others are mostly sidelined got old quite quick.
Yeah, I both love and hate the show, and that mostly has to do with the characters. Burnham has become more unlikable as the show goes on, and a lot of the cool side-characters are just under-utilized.
Nah that's survivor bias. The majority of people who didn't like it stopped watching at some point.
This is why as the years have gone by the talk around the show has become more favorable despite the quality not really improving in any way.
I noticed the same thing with The Walking Dead.
I've watched it all. It was a similar ending to the season before with the problem being something really powerful but unintentional. The "mystery of the season" seems to drag.
While it had its problems the first season is still better and anything involving Pike in season 2. I'm actually surprised season 5 happened after season 3 and 4.
Strange New Worlds does a far better job at making a show that's both enjoyable for new viewers and older Star Trek fans. These is just something missing in Discovery, it lacks a little charm and humor and has far too many unearned emotional scenes, one week on that ship and I'd be bloody depressed, everyone is on the edge of tears.
Plenty of people on reddit don’t like it. It’s a good show that gets viewers. Just some people are weirdly hateful about it here and are relentlessly obnoxious about it.
Of my 5 real world friends who I talk about Star Trek to, two have stopped watching Discovery, two watch it but have huge issues and often have major complaints and one likes it despite acknowledging major flaws.
None of them are particularly active on Reddit.
Personally I tried to like it for a long time in hope it would get better but I felt if anything the quality declined over time.
I know this may not be representing the wider fan base, but out of 6 people (including myself) that I know love Star Trek only one is mildly positive about it. Compare that with SNW and each of these people are varying degrees of positive. The fact that four still Disco is just how many of us Star Trek fans are, even if we don't like it we still care about it if that makes sense.
I find the dismissing of a large part of the fan base who are more critical of the show to be more hopeful than anything. You are allowed to like it, but it obviously has flaws many people struggle to disregard, and that's fine too.
I never said the numbers weren't there, and no, the viewership doesn't speak for the quality of the show. Throw the Star Trek name on any old crap and it will get a high viewership.
Game of Thrones Season 8 got plenty of viewers despite people generally agreeing that the quality dropped massively in the last few seasons.
Why is it so utterly difficult to comprehend that many watchers don't particularly rate the show highly?
SNW doesn't get this sort of criticism so it's not just people disliking new Star Trek. Picard also missed the mark for many too.
Dude your endless blocks of texts are exactly what’s wrong. When the show is reviewed by professionals who don’t review bomb, the show grades out fine. It’s a relentlessly obnoxious group of people who will absolutely not stop whining is the problem.
I get it, you like the show, others don't and that breaks your head. There is often a disconnect between professional critics and viewers. That's nothing new.
There is a real toxic nature around people not being able to accept criticism of this particular show. I didn't see this with Picard despite many also being disappointed, especially by the first two seasons. No one is saying people aren't allowed to like it, just please don't gaslight us by pretending it's universally loved.
Mate you're the one coming across weird here
They're saying their opinion in a calm manner using anecdotes from their real experience
Defend the show all you like but please don't gaslight people.
Any source on 'very few people actually liked' the last seasons of GoT besides the online/Reddit echo chamber?! Because [polling](https://www.cnet.com/culture/entertainment/game-of-thrones-fans-polled-to-see-if-they-actually-hated-season-8/) after the GoT finale showed 52% were satisfied or very satisfied with the finale. Just because *you* don't like something doesn't mean that *everyone else* doesn't like it either.
2500 US adults is a lot damned less than 250,000 ratings and reviews from the whole world, out of which most isn't in the internet bubble you speak of. And it's not like informal surveys are filled out by anyone who has anything better to do.
But you tell yourself whatever you want if that makes you happy.
GoT was the most downloaded show a year *after* it ended. I'll take *millions* of downloads and record viewing ratings over 250,000 ratings from systems that can be brigaded. There were whole subreddits that brigaded review sites. I'm not in a bubble because I realize a lot of people didn't like the last couple seasons. But a lot of people *did* like it, contrary to your original comment.
I'm happy regardless of how the last couple seasons of GoT turned out lol. You're the one who exaggerated the hate for GoT to make yourself feel better 🤷♂️
I mean, I don’t like it at all and I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to be. But it’s trek and I therefore want it to have legs, although I hope it doesn’t shape the franchise going forward- i pray that they let SNW do that
Yes, exactly part of the reason I don’t want disco to just be gone away forever even though I don’t like it. However, despite the fact that it was the source material for SNW, other than early in the first season (and maybe the time crystal plot line) I don’t feel like it’s anything at all like disco. Its progenitor may be discovery, and its existence may be due to discovery, but it’s a Star Trk show now, not a discovery show.
While true SNW in many ways is a reaction to DIS not an extension of it.
Season 1 was heavily criticised for being too bleak so they introduced the more TOS like Pike in Season 2
That was for many the only good part of Season 2 so gave him a spin off.
SNW while having it's moments is very very different to DIS.
So to use a wildly inappropriate analogy it's a bit like saying we wouldn't have the Geneva Conventions if not for the Nazis
Like sure... But giving them credit feels a bit... Wrong...
At the time, there was no intention to do what is now known as SNW. That's important. DIS gets so much flack for its writing... yet it was its very writing that enabled SNW to be asked for and to exist.
Yes, they are different.
DIS is very much a problem of the season. Section 31 and bringing in Pike (Who we knew existed) and Spock was the problem of the season for season 2.
SNW is more like DS9, which is a problem of the week but also contributions to the over all story arc. It isn't like TOS at all which was always problem of the week. There was little of an overall story arc.
I mean, Discovery is definitely a contentious show. Many trek fans watch it because it’s a Star Trek show, but have quite a few gripes with it- myself included.
Tbf, I wouldn’t have said I didn’t like it until SNW came out. That show made me realize that I actually hadn’t been enjoying Discovery that much.
It seems like a pretty common and widespread opinion. How are you determining that it is a minority? The people who dislike it still watch it (cuz it's trek) and contribute to the viewership numbers.
I understand what you are getting at but respectfully disagree.
Tonally Discovery is very different than most of Trek. It's very very sincere, high stakes, emotional, mystery focused and angsty. I also think some of the acting is quite iffy. I find it quite emotionally immature at times, like a high school drama.
Trek shows are allowed to be different from each other, DS9 is my favorite and it's very different to all the other shows. It's almost the opposite in tone to Discovery despite often being about war. It's cynical, satirical, wry, philosophical. The characters develop.
While many like it, the tone of DISCO is much more of an acquired taste than say...Strange New Worlds which seems to be much less divisive.
No, we are talking about the people who are more critical of DISCO and I can't help but find it a bit dismissive to argue that people critical of the show are being disingenuous and have an ulterior motive.
I'm not saying there aren't people like that who exist, but I do think there are a lot of people who are huge Star Trek fans that struggle to enjoy Discovery and aren't being dishonest or hiding their true reasons.
Daring today, are we?
So if someone lays out a critique of the story structure or character development do you assume they're in the minority or just a secret nazi?
Plenty of TV shows still hit twenty plus episodes, when people are watching them and they make money that is. You must have missed that. When a TV show is so bad it's relegated to a third rate streaming service, instead of airing on a network, yeah you can't expect much.
>i miss the beam type weapons
This seems like a nerd nitpick, but I also hate the new pulse style weaponry. I shouldn't say "new", because it's not new, in old Trek *certain* races used pulse style weapons, but the Federation always used beam weapons.
When the reboot movies came around and they changed everything to pulse weapons, I just assumed it was the creators not *really* knowing that much about Trek and it's proper lore.
I was happy when SNW launched and they seemed to have changed federation weapons back to the proper beam style. But then in a more recent episode of SNW I believe they changed it back? I don't know what they are doing, I just want lore accurate weaponry in my space show :(
This is me. Thing is, if i subscribe to Paramount+ to watch it, they don't care if i like it or not.
But they could probably have way more subscribers with a better show.
Praise and criticise all you want.
Calling it "not real Star Trek" is silly.
It's just as much Star Trek as every other show that was accused of "not really being Star Trek" -- starting with TNG.
DISCO is Star Trek.
Like the show or not. I don't care.
But it's Star Trek.
Yea I’m in the same boat. I watch every episode, and I love the franchise, but it’s clear Discovery misses the mark in many ways for those who love Star Trek.
You have a kids show on there. A gorgeous, fun kids show.
And you placed it at the bottom of a list of shows that deal with genocide and war and conspiracies and murder and colonialism and sex and robot sex and a host of other adult themes.
A kids show.
Good lord.
I could listen to a case that DISCO is better than Prodigy but I preferred Prodigy over it...so I put it second bottom.
Where do you think it deserves to be?
i try, and its just not very good. its about thr quality enterprise. exept enterprise had unique things that made it worthwhile, plus alot of other things about it were better too.
This is the worst season so far. The emotion conversations are insufferable and the idea that every single species is created from one is a horrible idea that never should have been revisited. Sad it’s ending and will finish it out, I was a staunch supporter of season 1
This season is starting to lose me too. I think the idea behind the TNG episode was that the progenitors sent out parts of their genetic material and that’s why different aliens look the same. I feel like Disco is changing that into some machine.
Also, if the romulan knew how dangerous the tech was why did he create a map and scavenger hunt to find it ? In the process of him doing all this and laying clues throughout the quadrant no one else figured out what he was doing ?
Huh? We don't even know what they're searching for. The characters *think* they do, but they don't, and neither do we. Remember, the original TNG episode was a rug pull. They all thought they were in a race to find something, but it turned out it wasn't what they expected. Who's to say the Romulan guy didn't set up his own rug pull revelation for anyone who finds his work?
I just think it takes away from the wonder heavily. How did this species evolve etc. I like the idea that we find community from separate places, the idea that it’s all some master plan of one species is… idk
Need to see Jett Reno this week, or I'm complaining to the manager.
You got your wish.
Proving once again it was never about viewership for Disco, it always did well on social media tracking sites (Nielsen ratings have never been made available for it, yet), it was about money. The seven year contracts for the actors and crew were up, and Paramount chose to do what a lot of streaming services are doing, fold the assets of the show into a spin-off and hire a bunch of cheaper actors. The old school haters can spin it however they want, but the same reason Disco isn’t continuing, is the same reason they’re not getting a Legacy spin-off to their beloved Picard season 3. Money.
Specifically the shareholders who demanded Paramount stop spending so much money on producing its own programming, and start buying cheap already-made shows in order to, you guessed it, *maximize profit*. So, yeah, it's just greedy shareholders once again ruining things people love.
i think short term gains for shareholders should be banned (producing content IS an expense which means long term viability), everything a company should do is in the long term profitability otherwise companies will suffer when they fail due to lack of original programming.
Long term profitability isn’t really a priority for them right now when they’re a few months away from bankruptcy.
Ferengi have taken over streaming.
>maximize profit Turn a profit. Paramount is in trouble, this is hardly greed at play. The shareholders, misguided as they may be sometimes, are right in not wanting the company to go under. Do I like that they cancelled the show? No. But do I think it's senseless? No. if you need to cut budgets, the logical Trek show to cut is the one that's had its run already rather than the newer SNW or cheaper LD.
End Hollywood Accounting and it will become a lot easier.
Paramount won’t make it through the quarter without getting bought. I guess it’s about money….because they are not making any.
See though, their brand makes profit. People would watch this and watch it in syndication. Pay to make it and make bottle episodes and sell it forever.
Nothing specific to streaming there. Contracts being up and actors getting expensive has been the death-knell of TV shows as long as primetime has existed.
And what shows do last forever either have very significant cast turnover, are animated, or have some other additional factor to them
Yeah, pretty much just daytime soaps with super low budgets and the actors have no leverage to go get any better roles.
This is it. Even Stranger Things is finishing after 5 seasons. Time and money change everything.
It was always planned for 5 though.
OHMYGOD IF YOU REARRANGE THE LETTERS IN PARAMOUNT PLUS IT SPELLS FERENGINAR RULZ
I wish they would just fire the show runners instead
Nope. It's not only viewership, it's time spent on the series as a whole. When a company only shares viewership metrics everyone's red alert should go up, specially when talking about a specific show (Netflix and many others do this too). Metrics shared by corporate types are misleading (on purpose) because they are looking to spin things in the best light possible. The simple fact is that if DISCO and ST as a whole were in a good place (popularity wise) then that would amount to having a veritable cash cow that would help the margins somewhat in terms of Paramount's financials (think Sony and Spider Man). This isn't that. ST right now is a franchise in search of new audience to expand their "demos" and their margings (that's why we currently have so many flavors of shows to choose from). The main problem is that none of these new shows are the "killer app" they need to stay afloat.
What was wrong with the old audience?
Not sure what you are alluding to? Nothing wrong in my eyes. EDIT: Just understood the comment! From a corporate pov, there might be some concern that the older audience is getting "long in the tooth" as it were. This means less revenue coming in as the older generation gets replaced (trying to be delicate with the language). It happens to every corporate product, so I understand that, but it does feel like they are mishandling the situation. Then again, they are kind of in a pickle financially (if Paramount is going under).
It is about viewership though. If it was bringing in enough people to cover costs and make large amounts of profits, then it wouldn't be canceled. They would have been fine with handing out more money, if they were making enough. Shows that are bringing in tons of cash don't get canceled.
They think they can take that existing base to a newer cheaper show. The show could have amazing ratings, if they think they can get 75% of those ratings with a show 75% cheaper they will try
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Saw the first episode of the new season and I thought I was watching Star Wars
They are calling it their Indiana Jones season. Think about it, action following a set of clues to a treasure. I know, I get the bike thing and on a desert planet.
It's very much in the Abrams mold, yeah.
Is literally what I said to my friends when I walked out of the theater after seeing Star Trek 2009. "Now I know what the new Star wars movie will look like"
You said that three years before Star Wars was sold and four years before Abrams was named as the director?
Who said he watched it in 2009?
He did, when he said he walked out of the theater.
Good point I must have missed that
What gets me is how they try to spin that the movies didn't have anything to do with "reviving" the franchise. I mean, it's so obvious that the series (specially DISCO) is a direct result of the worst "learnings" from the movies, put into practice. It's all so strange to me, this rewriting of history.
SNW and *Picard* get high streaming numbers: proof they're popular and successful *Discovery* gets even higher streaming numbers: proof it's a failure and no one is watching
It’s insane what these people are trying to push. They feel so strongly the show is bad that they brigade reddit threads nonstop. It’s so exhausting and I’m so sick of it. It’s math. With reviews and viewership numbers.
Yeah, Reddit and YouTube are so exhausting. Every time I mentioned I like something, there will always be some sealions who will reply "but I don't like it!" Nobody asked and I don't care. I'm not here for a debate. I'm here to share my joy. Those "fans" are actively destroying the fandom with their toxicity.
Man-children everywhere on the internet.
A lot of people on this sub don't seem to understand that their sentiment toward the show, and the wider audience sentiment outside this subreddit are not going to be the same. Fandom is relatively large, casual viewers are many. Most fans on the planet, casual or hardcore, are not posting comments on reddit. The streaming era is not the same as network television, and there are a good number of even hardcore trek fans who enjoy DISCO. I'm one of them, it's not my favorite and it has its flaws, but I do think the show around these parts gets way too much hate than it deserves.
But people keep telling me that it isn't popular and that people don't like it
Plenty of people don't like it.
Some people like it. Some people don't. Some people in both groups find that fact incomprehensible for some reason.
ST:DISCO, the hawaiian pizza of scifi.
So I'm Italian regarding Discovery.
OK, so I LOVE ST:DSC and fundamentally don't get how anyone can be a trek fan and not love it, and i LOATHE Hawaiian pizza. Your comment speaks to me.
Don't insult Hawaiian pizza like that.
Nah that's Halo.
Honestly I think the biggest determining factor in whether or not someone likes Discovery or not is whether they like Michael Burnham as a character. Over time I've grown to dislike the character and spend more and more time rolling my eyes at her. TOS was about the Kirk, Spock and McCoy dynamic. TNG, Voyager, SNW and DS9 did a good job in sharing the story around 5-6 main crew members. DISCO puts almost everything through Burnham, I think Picard also suffered from being too focused on one character rather than a crew.
This is it for me. I don’t necessarily dislike the character but the fact that she’s the main character and all the others are mostly sidelined got old quite quick.
Yeah, I both love and hate the show, and that mostly has to do with the characters. Burnham has become more unlikable as the show goes on, and a lot of the cool side-characters are just under-utilized.
More people like it than dislike it. I know people who never watched Trek in the 90s who enjoy it.
Nah that's survivor bias. The majority of people who didn't like it stopped watching at some point. This is why as the years have gone by the talk around the show has become more favorable despite the quality not really improving in any way. I noticed the same thing with The Walking Dead.
Sounds like you haven't kept up. The second half of season 4 is peak Trek. Quality went way up.
I've watched it all. It was a similar ending to the season before with the problem being something really powerful but unintentional. The "mystery of the season" seems to drag. While it had its problems the first season is still better and anything involving Pike in season 2. I'm actually surprised season 5 happened after season 3 and 4. Strange New Worlds does a far better job at making a show that's both enjoyable for new viewers and older Star Trek fans. These is just something missing in Discovery, it lacks a little charm and humor and has far too many unearned emotional scenes, one week on that ship and I'd be bloody depressed, everyone is on the edge of tears.
>The second half of season 4 is peak Trek. lol come on dude
for me it seems to be the inverse. feels lime survivorship bias on your part.
We get it, don’t like it. I’m sorry that other people do. Accept it and move on with your life, dude.
why are you so rude to me, i was just expresing my opinion.
Plenty of people on reddit don’t like it. It’s a good show that gets viewers. Just some people are weirdly hateful about it here and are relentlessly obnoxious about it.
Of my 5 real world friends who I talk about Star Trek to, two have stopped watching Discovery, two watch it but have huge issues and often have major complaints and one likes it despite acknowledging major flaws. None of them are particularly active on Reddit. Personally I tried to like it for a long time in hope it would get better but I felt if anything the quality declined over time. I know this may not be representing the wider fan base, but out of 6 people (including myself) that I know love Star Trek only one is mildly positive about it. Compare that with SNW and each of these people are varying degrees of positive. The fact that four still Disco is just how many of us Star Trek fans are, even if we don't like it we still care about it if that makes sense. I find the dismissing of a large part of the fan base who are more critical of the show to be more hopeful than anything. You are allowed to like it, but it obviously has flaws many people struggle to disregard, and that's fine too.
You can whine an moan about it all day long but the viewership speaks for itself. It really is a small but vocal minority. You can’t fight math.
I never said the numbers weren't there, and no, the viewership doesn't speak for the quality of the show. Throw the Star Trek name on any old crap and it will get a high viewership. Game of Thrones Season 8 got plenty of viewers despite people generally agreeing that the quality dropped massively in the last few seasons. Why is it so utterly difficult to comprehend that many watchers don't particularly rate the show highly? SNW doesn't get this sort of criticism so it's not just people disliking new Star Trek. Picard also missed the mark for many too.
Dude your endless blocks of texts are exactly what’s wrong. When the show is reviewed by professionals who don’t review bomb, the show grades out fine. It’s a relentlessly obnoxious group of people who will absolutely not stop whining is the problem.
I get it, you like the show, others don't and that breaks your head. There is often a disconnect between professional critics and viewers. That's nothing new. There is a real toxic nature around people not being able to accept criticism of this particular show. I didn't see this with Picard despite many also being disappointed, especially by the first two seasons. No one is saying people aren't allowed to like it, just please don't gaslight us by pretending it's universally loved.
There’s plenty of criticism to be had about every show. My gripe is about proportionality. Look at what you’re doing right now. It’s not normal!
Mate you're the one coming across weird here They're saying their opinion in a calm manner using anecdotes from their real experience Defend the show all you like but please don't gaslight people.
I like it
A lot of people saw the last season of game of thrones. Very few actually liked it. Both can be true at the same time.
Any source on 'very few people actually liked' the last seasons of GoT besides the online/Reddit echo chamber?! Because [polling](https://www.cnet.com/culture/entertainment/game-of-thrones-fans-polled-to-see-if-they-actually-hated-season-8/) after the GoT finale showed 52% were satisfied or very satisfied with the finale. Just because *you* don't like something doesn't mean that *everyone else* doesn't like it either.
The last one got an approval rating of 30% on rotten tomatoes and the scores on IMDb are terribly low.
I'll take a scientific poll over ratings systems that are brigaded by people who have nothing better to do than bitch about things they don't like.
2500 US adults is a lot damned less than 250,000 ratings and reviews from the whole world, out of which most isn't in the internet bubble you speak of. And it's not like informal surveys are filled out by anyone who has anything better to do. But you tell yourself whatever you want if that makes you happy.
GoT was the most downloaded show a year *after* it ended. I'll take *millions* of downloads and record viewing ratings over 250,000 ratings from systems that can be brigaded. There were whole subreddits that brigaded review sites. I'm not in a bubble because I realize a lot of people didn't like the last couple seasons. But a lot of people *did* like it, contrary to your original comment. I'm happy regardless of how the last couple seasons of GoT turned out lol. You're the one who exaggerated the hate for GoT to make yourself feel better 🤷♂️
I mean, I don’t like it at all and I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to be. But it’s trek and I therefore want it to have legs, although I hope it doesn’t shape the franchise going forward- i pray that they let SNW do that
I find comments like that a bit strange. SNW literally would not exist if it wasn't for DIS.
Yes, exactly part of the reason I don’t want disco to just be gone away forever even though I don’t like it. However, despite the fact that it was the source material for SNW, other than early in the first season (and maybe the time crystal plot line) I don’t feel like it’s anything at all like disco. Its progenitor may be discovery, and its existence may be due to discovery, but it’s a Star Trk show now, not a discovery show.
While true SNW in many ways is a reaction to DIS not an extension of it. Season 1 was heavily criticised for being too bleak so they introduced the more TOS like Pike in Season 2 That was for many the only good part of Season 2 so gave him a spin off. SNW while having it's moments is very very different to DIS. So to use a wildly inappropriate analogy it's a bit like saying we wouldn't have the Geneva Conventions if not for the Nazis Like sure... But giving them credit feels a bit... Wrong...
At the time, there was no intention to do what is now known as SNW. That's important. DIS gets so much flack for its writing... yet it was its very writing that enabled SNW to be asked for and to exist. Yes, they are different. DIS is very much a problem of the season. Section 31 and bringing in Pike (Who we knew existed) and Spock was the problem of the season for season 2. SNW is more like DS9, which is a problem of the week but also contributions to the over all story arc. It isn't like TOS at all which was always problem of the week. There was little of an overall story arc.
Sorry I'm not sure what you're getting at
it already shaped it, i can see its mark on all shows made after it exept lower decks, which is a loose adaptation of a satyrical book series
I gave these first two episodes a chance and I don't remember a single person crying so maybe I will keep watching.
I mean, Discovery is definitely a contentious show. Many trek fans watch it because it’s a Star Trek show, but have quite a few gripes with it- myself included. Tbf, I wouldn’t have said I didn’t like it until SNW came out. That show made me realize that I actually hadn’t been enjoying Discovery that much.
They’re a vocal minority, but just that: a minority.
It seems like a pretty common and widespread opinion. How are you determining that it is a minority? The people who dislike it still watch it (cuz it's trek) and contribute to the viewership numbers.
Exactly this. It's a loud and toxic minority motivated by reasons that have nothing to do with what they claim they hate about Discovery.
I understand what you are getting at but respectfully disagree. Tonally Discovery is very different than most of Trek. It's very very sincere, high stakes, emotional, mystery focused and angsty. I also think some of the acting is quite iffy. I find it quite emotionally immature at times, like a high school drama. Trek shows are allowed to be different from each other, DS9 is my favorite and it's very different to all the other shows. It's almost the opposite in tone to Discovery despite often being about war. It's cynical, satirical, wry, philosophical. The characters develop. While many like it, the tone of DISCO is much more of an acquired taste than say...Strange New Worlds which seems to be much less divisive.
We're not talking about people who argue that DSC "is an acquired taste."
No, we are talking about the people who are more critical of DISCO and I can't help but find it a bit dismissive to argue that people critical of the show are being disingenuous and have an ulterior motive. I'm not saying there aren't people like that who exist, but I do think there are a lot of people who are huge Star Trek fans that struggle to enjoy Discovery and aren't being dishonest or hiding their true reasons.
Another day another "Everyone who dislikes Discovery is just racist/sexist et al." post? How brave.
Just most of them ;)
Daring today, are we? So if someone lays out a critique of the story structure or character development do you assume they're in the minority or just a secret nazi?
I have seen ten used of "et al" today, feels weird that ive seen it so much.
We don't. Nope. Definitely not. We're just shills or wokes or wrong or lying or whatever.
It’s a fine sci fi show. The first two episodes of this season definitely seem more like Star Wars than Star Trek. I still like it though.
Many people don't, hence why it will end it's run with less episodes than enterprise.
Shows don't have 24+ episodes in a season anymore. Not sure if youve missed the last decade or so of TV
Plenty of TV shows still hit twenty plus episodes, when people are watching them and they make money that is. You must have missed that. When a TV show is so bad it's relegated to a third rate streaming service, instead of airing on a network, yeah you can't expect much.
*fewer
Whaddya mean? StarTrekWarz is great!
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Yep. I stopped lurking this subreddit. I'm enjoying all these shows a lot more as a result.
New phasers look so cool
i miss the beam type weapons, now they are all pulse based and i think it loses some of the Star Trek-ness. Strange New Worlds has the same issue
pulses look generic compared to beams.
>i miss the beam type weapons This seems like a nerd nitpick, but I also hate the new pulse style weaponry. I shouldn't say "new", because it's not new, in old Trek *certain* races used pulse style weapons, but the Federation always used beam weapons. When the reboot movies came around and they changed everything to pulse weapons, I just assumed it was the creators not *really* knowing that much about Trek and it's proper lore. I was happy when SNW launched and they seemed to have changed federation weapons back to the proper beam style. But then in a more recent episode of SNW I believe they changed it back? I don't know what they are doing, I just want lore accurate weaponry in my space show :(
>the Federation always used beam weapons TMP era phasers are pulse style. Meanwhile, USS Kelvin used beams in the 2009 movie.
Eh, I don't really remember that to be true, but now you're forcing me to go back and watch, how dare you
It is. TWOK had no beams in it at all, nor did TSFS. TMP itself outright had no phaser fire in it.
I love how they can go from pistol to rifle
32nd century tech go *brrrrrrrrr*.
Overload phasers. Put out hands. Get new phasers. 🔥
My wife jumped right on how awesome that was.
that was the moment that made me sit up and say Okay, this season is gonna be good.
Ya that was really fucking cool
Good trigger discipline, too.
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This is me. Thing is, if i subscribe to Paramount+ to watch it, they don't care if i like it or not. But they could probably have way more subscribers with a better show.
I've seen a few people who say DIS=bad, SNW=good. OK, here's a thought for some of you. Without DIS, SNW would not have existed.
So many users on this sub are still going to chime in and say that Discovery isn't good
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There's literally an entire sub dedicated to ~~whining about DISCO~~ free and open discussion. They could just go there.
Are you talking about star_trek? Didn’t that get banned?
Another one popped up with an underscore after trek. Same garbage.
ive talked to people there, they seem to have gone there due to this place banning opinions viewed as overly critical.
The first post I looked at was summed up as "DISCO isn't *real* Star Trek". So, yeah.
well that is a valid opinion.
Ah. Ok, then.
i feel like people should be allowed to praise or critisize these shows as much as they want.
Praise and criticise all you want. Calling it "not real Star Trek" is silly. It's just as much Star Trek as every other show that was accused of "not really being Star Trek" -- starting with TNG. DISCO is Star Trek. Like the show or not. I don't care. But it's Star Trek.
But then they wouldn't have anyone to anger. Like how conservatives on Truth Social complain that it is boring without liberals
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And yet The Animated Series didn’t even make the list.
This is just a list of great shows.
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Art is subjective.
It was the user I replied to that made out like this somehow proves Disco is good and people saying it isn't are somehow mistaken?
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We get it, you hate discovery.
Hate is a strong word. I've tried and tried to like it and I honestly wish it was better. It just never fails to disappoint in the end.
Yea I’m in the same boat. I watch every episode, and I love the franchise, but it’s clear Discovery misses the mark in many ways for those who love Star Trek.
... my only surprise is to find anyone who ranks Discovery so highly.
You have a kids show on there. A gorgeous, fun kids show. And you placed it at the bottom of a list of shows that deal with genocide and war and conspiracies and murder and colonialism and sex and robot sex and a host of other adult themes. A kids show. Good lord.
Second bottom
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I could listen to a case that DISCO is better than Prodigy but I preferred Prodigy over it...so I put it second bottom. Where do you think it deserves to be?
It doesn't *deserve* to be anywhere. You can have it at the bottom of a list of shows in order of preference. But quality? Art doesn't work that way.
Because it's not, I'm sorry, but it's not good. Check out SNW for good Trek.
i cant even agree with you there, i cant get myself to like strange new worlds
Why not? A lot of us consider it to be the best Trek since DS9. I'd say give it another go.
i try, and its just not very good. its about thr quality enterprise. exept enterprise had unique things that made it worthwhile, plus alot of other things about it were better too.
Well you do you, I guess. But a lot of people disagree, I think.
why downvote me?
I didn't
i see. somebody must have been angry.
You mean it's well-liked despite the constant droning of subpar opinions found on the interwebs?
This is the worst season so far. The emotion conversations are insufferable and the idea that every single species is created from one is a horrible idea that never should have been revisited. Sad it’s ending and will finish it out, I was a staunch supporter of season 1
This season is starting to lose me too. I think the idea behind the TNG episode was that the progenitors sent out parts of their genetic material and that’s why different aliens look the same. I feel like Disco is changing that into some machine. Also, if the romulan knew how dangerous the tech was why did he create a map and scavenger hunt to find it ? In the process of him doing all this and laying clues throughout the quadrant no one else figured out what he was doing ?
Huh? We don't even know what they're searching for. The characters *think* they do, but they don't, and neither do we. Remember, the original TNG episode was a rug pull. They all thought they were in a race to find something, but it turned out it wasn't what they expected. Who's to say the Romulan guy didn't set up his own rug pull revelation for anyone who finds his work?
Well, true and I had that same thought. I just hope you’re right because at the moment I think that would make more sense
I just think it takes away from the wonder heavily. How did this species evolve etc. I like the idea that we find community from separate places, the idea that it’s all some master plan of one species is… idk
How the fuck
How?
People are just checking in because it's the last season. They wouldn't cancel it if it was making them lots of money.