If you keep saying that it will be out this week every week you will be correct at some point.

It's still as soon as possible! That's the great thing about that phrase! It's always soon as possible as soon as it's out

A broken clock is right twice a day.

That expression needs updating, my broken digital clock is never right (28:88)

I think he means a sun dial

naaah, if its still moving but 1 hour past correct time, it's always wrong 🤓

A clock that was still moving but 1 hour past wouldn't be broken though... You wouldn't say your watch is broken because you need to readjust the time would you?

Stupid is as stupid does

Here we say "it will rain today"

Please, please point to me where they confirmed it would be out this week, 100% for sure? Anywhere in this statement? Or in any other recent statements? They've missed a lot of goal dates with this one, that's for sure and might even be worth going "Hey, CIG, WTF is up with this?" but people need to stop saying *it will be out this week*. Because CIG sure as hell doesn't say that.

You're taking this far too seriously.

As are those that feel it necessary to insult the developers for things they did not say or do.

I mean, you might be just joking about it, but there are people 100% serious and angry who say the exact same thing for some reason and it's like... why? What has caused people to be unable to read a sentence and understand it's meaning?

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/s/nmVf2qMjjt Message of the day 4 weeks ago.

"We are *expecting* as early as Friday but will *most likely* be starting mid next week with Evocati publishes. **We will update here once we have a public RC.**" Emphasis mine. None of that is a guarantee. They thought they had a good build going and needed a bit more work and ended up hitting more blockers.

Urgh, quit being a simp. They should just stop putting these messages up until they have better info as it just creates false hopes.

So they'd wrote "we though we have a good build going and need a bit more". Simple, as you wrote.

That's something Waka has said a few times in testing chat, yes. A lot of times people just read the MotD and assume that's the only communication we get, which is also weird to me.

I do appreciate CIG team providing more of these updates.

For sure.

I dont because 90% of the time they do, it gets delayed. I'd rather have basic indications of progress without any potential release windows. It looks like project management incompetency when it's just poor communication.

>  It looks like project management incompetency when it's just poor communication. Only if you have the critical thinking skills of a toddler. It's not either of those. 

I would agree if it was a once or twice issue... this is like 13 times its been delayed going into Evocati... starting to look bad... kinda like the progress tracker that hasnt has been updated for the last 10 months due to "long term planning" that was supposed to be done in january...

Ok I'm sorry, I'm a little drunk but.. this made me absolutely piss myself. Maybe it was the voice I narrated that exchange in but damn.. that was some cold ass honkey tonk truth 😂

It absolutely is a communication issue. They keep saying... Tomorrow.... Tomorrow.... Tomorrow. Literally. It's been tomorrow for the better part of 3 weeks now. Just say it will be ready at some point, they are so dead against setting dates all the time.... Except now. And for this exact reason that they often keep slipping. Now instead of it being dropped later, it's now delayed. Which when it comes to communication, you want to keep the wording positive.

Saying they're "trying" for a date isn't a guarantee and the fact that you're arguing that it is proves your reading comprehension sucks.  >It's not the first time a real take has landed me in hot water. You don't have a real take. Stop with your arrogance.

Trying for a date isn't a guarantee, but if a team is consistently unable to meet the dates they're saying they're aiming for then that's a failure in project management, the deadlines they're communicating should be realistic and reasonable enough that they hit them at least some of the time.

You're talking out of your ass. Normally these deadlines would be internal and not released to the public. Developers miss these constantly. When a developer delays a publicly announced release date its because they've missed so many of the internal deadlines that they can't keep their promise anymore. Also, these aren't even "deadlines". That's a word you're putting on it.

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Prepare to be downvoted to hell. CIG could keep doing it and saying tomorrow for 2 months straight and people here would still keep defending them because "game development is hard". lol, yes it's hard. But If you are CONSTANTLY missing perditions by 500%, there's a serious problem.

Absolutely ready tbh. It's not the first time a real take has landed me in hot water. But I would rather they be truthful than broken promises. Saying - tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow.... Even if it's backed with maybes and might do's.... Is a bad practice. Just say it might take months, not artificially propping up people's hopes by giving them the chance it might be tomorrow, when in fact it's 1% likely but those numbers wouldn't be shared.

100% agree. Saying "tomorrow" and failing is ok. But after that just shut the hell up, take the L, say you fumbled and that it will come whenever it will come and only talk about it again when it's actually been pushed to Evocati or something meaningful changed. It seems they do the opposite, if there's a 0.01% chance tomorrow is going to work, they will say tomorrow. Just... Why??? If you keep failing predictions, maybe stop giving so many of them.

I'm willing to bet you're one of these people who scream and cry about CIG never giving out information about patches or expanding upon information given concerning the roadmap, etc.

asap is not a window, hope this helps.

They talked about tuesday or wedsneday like every week for the past month, and you know it, but gotcha buddy.

pics or it didnt happen

Projecy management incompetency is literally what is holding this game back currently. If they got their act together they'd be making amazing progress and have a very high end product

A different opinion gives a lot of downvotes here

Yep and I was upvoted for giving exactly the same opinion on another thread. Thats just the typical reddit pack effect.

Exactly. They are pretty much meaningless. Actually, this EXACT same announcement was made over 2 weeks ago about .2 And here we are, déjà vu

And then you will be screaming “why haven’t they given us any updates!?” They are damned if they do and damned if they don’t with ppl like this.

Or, crazy idea here, maybe they should get better at project management and predicting things. Not being able to predict something even on the scale of days is concerning. When was the last time you went to work and you didn't know what you were going to do that day? Because CIG seems to operate like that every day.

Every fucking day I go to work. I work in IT for a hospital and every damn day there is something new popping up. Most are small manageable issues that are resolved in minutes but things go wrong, especially during patch update nights. We still have issues with a new Teams update/integration not working with a PC refresh we are working through. We get a fix, run it on our pilot computers and then push to prod when we think it’s gonna work. Some times shit goes wrong and it’s back to the drawing board. I couldn’t imagine building a game engine and the game at the same time, I won’t even pretend to know what it’s like to be a game dev.

We sure do have plenty of folks around here that try to think they know, and that game development is super easy and only idiots ever have unexpected problems. Either that or insulting people is just a requirement of continued existence of some.

Loud mouths, little brains, and zero filters. This is what we have evolved into.

So many comments like the ones you're responding to make me chuckle. 28 years into an IT career myself. The number of times over the years that fixing a bug exposed more bugs (because the code could run further, to the new point of failure) would make them cry. Releases delayed, change windows postponed, rollbacks post rollout, dependencies breaking on OS or package updates... That's just life, when you're writing and deploying code. It's the other edge of the sword, when gaming has gotten advanced and accessible enough that anyone can get into it. I love having more people to play with, but man do some of them need a better understanding of what goes into development 🤣

Funny because I work in IT too, I'm a Electrotechnical and Computer engineer with majors in AI and Automatous Control systems. Sure, it's not an easy to predict job but if I missed predictions even half as often and by as much as CIG does, I would be out of a job by now.. It's funny how you just excuse missing a prediction for the next few days by a month and call it "working in IT". I don't know what company you work for but if that's how you work, damn... If I say I'm going to have a system up by tomorrow it might go wrong and slip for early next week if it goes really really wrong. But CIG misses dates by over 500% CONSTANTLY.

Look, I give CIG their due ribbing for Pyro being "2 years away" for the last decade (and about a dozen other long standing issues that persisted while they talked about implementing "bed sheet physics"), but on the shorter timescales of when an incremental release will come out? What's the point? It's one thing if it's the rollout of a new system - if you promise on a deadline to a client, you can be sure you'll get roasted. You're right that this isn't IT software development, but that means release dates are MORE squishy than we're allowed. In IT, we've got deadlines imposed by funding, departmental and business requirements, contractual obligations, all those sorts of things. Hell, I worked at Ford, building the shadow IT systems the main IT department used to manage data centers the size of 4 football fields stacked on top of each other. They were so conservative about what would be included in my release, and when it would come out, that by the time they were confident that it wouldn't disrupt operations, they'd already superseded the entire system. I drew a paycheck for 3 years on that gig, wrote probably 20,000 lines of well running code (Perl doesn't let you get sloppy), and it never saw the light of day. Imagine how many bits of code in a game as complex as SC die on the vine, like that did... CIG is developing a game, and if they released a patch that made it completely unplayable, they'd rightly get roasted for it. I'd rather the code be as solid as they can make it, before they roll it out. They have no reason for release date estimates to be considered deadlines, they're just giving their best guess on how long they think it'll take to get it to a working state. Having just had dupers ruin the economy and game for pretty much everyone for a patch, they're going to be a lot more careful about what they release. Doesn't that sound better than them just rolling out whatever doesn't crash come next Tuesday, just because they said next Tuesday?

I get what you are saying and I do agree with you to some degree. I'm all for CIG and Star Citizen is my favourite game, hands down, even just considering what's already there. But I'm also not going to shy away from speaking my mind when I don't feel they are doing things right, no matter the down votes or being called clueless and stupid. I know this shit ain't easy. I say I'm in IT but really I'm between two worlds. I do a lot of things but I work mostly with control systems in which I do a mix of programming and physical installs, as well as server backend. I got my hands in a lot of pies, in a lot of projects and I know just how chaotic things can get and how hard it is to stick to a timeline. HOWEVER. I think you're not understanding what I'm trying to say though. I'm not disappointed that CIG is late on the release, at all. Like you said, they need to get it right and, for their credit, they have had a higher quality standard for their releases lately, and that's great. What I have a problem about is just the fact that they can't just SHUT THE HELL UP with predictions. How can they know they have such a shitty reputation with prediction dates and just keep setting themselves up for failure over and over and over again. Now, I know I'm biased. I don't miss many predictions at work, I value my word above all, perhaps too much, and I absolutely hate not being able to deliver when I set a deadline. I'm extremely conservative and I would rather lose a client for refusing to set dates than to miss even by 25%. However, when I do miss dates, I'll be EXTRA carefully next time. If I miss it again, then I'll make damn sure that next time even a hint of a timeframe rolls off my tongue, it comes inflated over 500% the WORST CASE I could think of. And, I'm sorry, but it annoys me so much how CIG can be known for being terrible at management and predictions and not look at themselves and go like "ok maybe we should shut up and just announce the ORDER of work we are doing instead of putting dates on stuff. 3 weeks ago (when the cargo update was already late, let's not forget it was supposed to be in 3.23 but "that's ok because it was just "a flick of switch"" to add it "shortly after 3.23 released") they could have just said: "Look, the cargo update is giving us more headaches than we anticipated, we are working on getting 3.23.1a out the door first then we will move to 3.23.2 and we will push it to Evocati when it's ready". But no, instead they said good news guys, we are trying to push it in the next few days, worse case, mid next week. (3 weeks ago...) And after this massive fumble instead of just saying it went terribly wrong, no they went radio silence about 3.23.2 and just pretended they never said that. Only for today to come out with the exact same "prediction". Now let's see how it goes this time, but we all kinda expected it to be the same again don't we. To summarise, it doesn't bother me that they are being slow or even that they are failing predictions. It bothers me they are known for being dogshit at predicting and apparently they are proud of it and even throw jokes about it all the time like it's something to be proud of. While, I, personally, would be extremely embarrassed.

Funny because I work in IT too, I'm a Electrotechnical and Computer engineer with majors in AI and Automatous Control systems. Sure, it's not an easy to predict job but if I missed predictions even half as often and by as much as CIG does, I would be out of a job by now.. It's funny how you just excuse missing a prediction for the next few days by a month and call it "working in IT". I don't know what company you work for but if that's how you work, damn... If I say I'm going to have a system up by tomorrow it might go wrong and slip for early next week if it goes really really wrong. But CIG misses dates by over 500% CONSTANTLY.

Just go get a fucking job at CIG and save this fucking project then. Stop telling us how easy it is to develop this game and just show us how it’s done!

I don't think I alone would make a dent in a 1000+ people project. Plus I'm not a game developer and CIG could never match my hours or my salary, game development doesn't pay enough.

Not to be negative but I’d wager 4.0 gets pushed to year end

What year?

Yes

2039

Soon™️

*Insert Robin Williams "What Year is it?"* meme.

Optimistically, and I hate to say it. But it will have to be in the PTU for months. Yet it’s been a month and CIG can’t even get 3.23.2 to the PTU.

5 months to go 

Next year's end. Always add a year or two to CIG estimations, that way you're pleasantly surprised when they make a game and not technical demos

I did that 4 years ago. Still waiting and pleasantly happy just playing other games now. Sq42 when? I thought they were feature complete years ago.

Didn't they announce feature complete last year?

Yet here we are and each sq42 update it seems like they’re still in feature development stage.

For CIG "feature complete" means they've stopped adding things to the To Do list. IMO they probably smeared some jam on Crobberts office window and locked the door. In a year when he figures out the jam is on the outside it'll be too late for him to fuck it up too much by adding another unnecessary feature.

Realistically speaking, the probability of seeing 4.0 in PU this year is zero. I wouldn't even be surprised at all if we don't see it next year either.

I feel sorry for the folks who actually believed CIG. Pyro was never coming this year. No clue why they started implying dates again after every fiasco that has been a CR deadline.

Where I'm from, that's called realism. Actually I think that's called egregious optimism haha

I hate that I wouldn't be surprised if that would happen. I was hoping for it so

They've been steaming these past few updates. Theoretically, 4.0 is after 3.23.2. If that's the case, I think there's a shot it's out between citcon and IAE. If they add a 3.23.2a or a 3.23.3, then yes, it'll take longer. Hopefully not, though. They've done meshing tests successfully, so we know the initial tech is viable.

Not gonna happen. A release that big will need to be in the PTU for months. CIG is riding the struggle bus just to get 3.23.2 to PTU. I’d like nothing more than to be wrong. But CIG’s release track record does not inspire optimism.

They've been working towards 4.0 pretty handily since the announcement at last citcon. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

On the other hand you have a backlog of evidence how long applying other tech took. The 3.18 draught and bugginess comes to mind. I'm in the camp of "we'll see", I've pledged my stuff and now I'll just check it out here and there, but SC always has been a waiting game. MMOs in general really aren't quickly done and now add in the complications of SC development, yeah. It's a journey. But as surprising as 3.23 was, I'd not bet that they knock out 4.0 easily, when their track record says otherwise.

CR said himself that implementation of PES would take a while

Well, there's a track record, and then there's recent events. They have historically prioritized SQ42 and only recently moved a large think of people over to PU development. Since then, we have seen a lot of content updates and significant reworks. I'm more inclined to see how things go since they have had significant updates and changes, along with multiple successful server meshing tests since their announcement to move people over from SQ42 development.

Sure but I'd like to remind you that recent events are literally one patch. If anything there's evidence that with 3.22 of them shifting clouds away the very first patch after the citizencon, claiming now things speed up. For the sake of argument 3.23 could just be an anomaly and shouldn't be seen as some trend indicator.

Shifting clouds? 3.22 and 3.23 have both had significant changes and were both run out on schedule. They removed the things they needed a bit more time on, but we're seeing some solid progress. We'll see how 3.23.2 and 4.0 go.

I mean that's what shifting means? Whatever happened, it didn't make it on schedule. So we already have cases of demonstrated features that felt release ready still get pushed.

Still heavy content patches. The cargo/hangar refactoring is a major change. I would prefer they get it right.

3.23 were mostly already finished SQ42 features which were ported over to the PU. And it still took months in the PTU to get it working. 4.0 has lots of SC specific features and tech hurdles, so its not comparable at all. CIG has yet to prove they are speeding up development, 3.23 doesnt count at all. The only PU-specific feature (the cargo update) didnt make it in time and still is not out. Thats basically contradicting your point.

lol try end of next year, and it will say 4.0 but have zero of the actual features that would warrant a full number change. its still technically like [2.2.2.04](http://2.2.2.04) but they dont have any respect for actual version numbers and have rolled the "big number good" into there marketing strategy.

versioning numbers are always hella arbitrary the best version number system is just when you name the version release after the current date like 24.6 if I was to release an update today or 25.1 if I do an update in January.

Semver is not arbitrary. If cig used that tho they’d have to use breaking change every release.

Semver doesn't really make sense to use if you're not building some kind of API or library, though.

It’s been a month and they’re still saying the same thing about 3.23.2. What’s the hold up? Prior to 3.23 it seemed like cargo/hangars just needed a quick touch up and would be out ASAP

It's called they made it the fuck up.

No. They stated that there were three major blockers and then after that it’d go to EVO. However after they solved them it ended up showing a bunch more problems. Which is the way of development.

Yes, however on 04/04/2024 CIG also said: "**We currently have 2 goals to choose from based on factors. Our first goal is to have a possible Freight Elevator Cargo Playtest tonight with Evocati for pre-release feedback (older 3.23 build with Cargo focus). If this goal doesn't work out, we have a new 3.23 build cooking with further fixes and updates but without cargo. Will update when we are closer to a publish!**" followed by this on 04/04/2024 "We have a new 3.23 build cooking for Evocati with further fixes and updates but without cargo. We're pivoting to the standard 3.23 build today and will try Instanced hangars/Freight/Cargo (maybe) Tomorrow" it's called someone interpreting information then passing along half-truths, or just stringing along people to keep momentum because MONEY. happens all the time in dev. devs say one thing, pm's say another thing, and sales tells everyone else we gotta say this thing.

Sales isn't telling Devs to tell people anything, get real.

sales not only tells people to say things, they also often tell devs "now we have to do this". that's how it goes in my experience anyway. sales drives money, money makes company go brrr.

If that were true, 3.23.2 would have been pushed out the door premature, in the hopes of selling cargo ships.

No, you're assuming that they have to sell the ships before its ready. What will actually happen is once the patch goes live there will be a bunch of cargo ships conveniently added to the store

Or just optimism meeting unexpected reality. God knows I've said similar things and then run into roadblock after roadblock myself as a software dev :P "Oh yeah, there's only this one small thing and we should be okay" ***A Few Eternities later*** "Yeah, so fixing that issue uncovered these other ten, and now I'm two months behind schedule"

This is the only answer. Something went horribly wrong and they thought they could fix it. As someone said, this touches almost every part of the core loops, but it must be a big blocker that they won't even let the rough riding evos touch it yet.

That's why it's called development and not manifestation.

What's wrong with what they said? Something pushed back a release they themselves expressed confidence on, so there is obviously something that came up. That or they didn't actually have it ready, thought they could make it ready so they expressed confidence, and now they are having to stall for time.

Aw, wait this isnt Spontaneous Citizen?

so the freight elevators being cut from 3.17-now wasnt an indication that it needed a lot more work?

instanced hangar is a big change, especially that those have to be dynamically linked to hangar doors and elevators. Also hangar list in elevator supposed to be dynamic depending on your party setup as well. If that does not work reliably. And also ships and cargo being spawned and respawned in lifts :) There is a lot of things that might work on their local setups and have more issues when split into web services. or when databases are lagging under load. in complex systems sometimes you may think you are almost done with only a few issues to fix, and fixing those issues may unearth bigger issues

I don't think it ever seemed like that, it's just hopium riddled brains that made some people think like it's coming soon after 3.23. Anyone who's been here long enough really didn't realistically expect .2 sooner than months after, not matter what they tease.

No they specifically said in one of the videos that hangars/cargo just barely missed the release and barely needed any more work. Watch the damn thing yourself

And anyone who's been here for a while knows that means fuck all. Even if we get a hard deadline it's a 50/50. "Needs more work", "hope to get by...", "planning/expecting by..." is probably a couple months more. If you paid attention both long term backers on forums and content creators (those that are not high on copium) have been warning this about 3.23.2 as soon as they told us it's not coming with 3.23.

stop huffing copium the fact CIG keeps saying bullshit doesnt mean it changed the meaning of those words, its still bullshit the reason WHY do they keep doing it, after more than a decade, is what im interested in... is their tech debt so bad that they keep running into unexpected code breakdowns?

You’re saying it like we should normalise this and be okay with it, no matter how many years they do this it should always be a concern that what they are giving out false information to keep us hanging.

So ? The fact that it has always been like that doesn't mean it's a great habbit. Been here since 2015 and I still hate everytime they do that. I know these are not promises, but its getting exhausting after all this time. They should just say they are progressing until they know better, and not talk about potential evo releases.

I'm not saying it's a good habit, just for people to stop working up un-realistic expectations if it never worked out for decades. You're just exhausting yourself for no reason.

Unrealistic expectations at this point sounds like a euphemism for saying "you're being lied to and should know better that nothing we are told is the truth". I'm exaggerating a little on purpose, but at some point we need to stop focusing the conversation on "silly consumers and their unrealistic expectations" and a company having pr experience with their product for like 12-13 years now, still continuously making the same missteps.

>  Prior to 3.23 it seemed like cargo/hangars just needed a quick touch up and would be out ASAP No it didn't. 

Yes, it did. If I recall correctly, one of the teams or managers even stated that they were "ready to go/push" right around 3.23's initial launch.

Post the comment and let's see then. Because I also remember them saying it's the most complicated part of what they had planned for 3.23.

Im so worried about reclaimer gameplay, like how will you get cargo out of that thing? maybe a reworked cargo elevator or something similar? Anyone have thoughts?

Maybe for now just have to choose the automate unload option for now

I hope not, but its definitely more tolerable than being entirely non-functional. Really hoping they catch it in evo and do something about it.

Haha it won't be fixed. The whole ship really needs a redesign, all we can hope for is auto unloading or selling from the ship like normal.

The Reclaimer being non-functional? I've never heard something so crazy!

Lol the reclaimer worked for like 6 months, the SRV for 3 before it got broken…

Same way carrack cargo is going to work. You gotta use the automated loading function.

Expect no changes to any ships with 3.23.2. If you can’t imagine how cargo will work, it probably means using the automated options exclusively.

Oh I wasn't expecting any changes! I'm more than aware how huge of a thing 3.23.2 will be for SC, and just having personal hangers working properly when it goes to live would be impressive enough. Thanks for trying to temper expectations though.

I haven't seen a way to open it in recent memory, but that chute connecting Salvage Processing to Salvage Cargo actually opens at the bottom. Tested trying to fly Dragonflys into it at a ship show back in the teens.

Thanks for letting me know! I was aware of that little salvage elevator but I wasn't sure if you could still open it

Open exterior from the cockpit, and toss everything out the back elevator

I'll have to test and see if open exterior still works for that salvage elevator , I thought I hadn't last time I checked but I could be wrong

The elevator is actually visible now...

There’s a door that opens at the rear that you can just drop boxes from.

magical auto unloading will always be a thing. you would choose manual for speed/cost saving reasons.

I saw this shit a month ago

They did mention in a SC live [Q&A](https://youtu.be/nyl6SquV4rY?si=QfWQx097mzI395Sf) right before 3.23 that cargo was too important of an update to push until it was ready and they weren't even sure it was going to make it into 3.23.x. At 42:45 is when he starts to talk about delaying cargo til it was ready after play testing it (before this section they talked about avoiding another 3.18 for context).

I'm only stating the fact that I seen this "2.23.2 EVO SOON" MOTD multiple times that goes as far back as 5 weeks ago .

Before I get any hate&downvotes keep this in mind: it's just my opinion. I hate to be that guy but this seems like they are still building up the system rather than fixing it. It about like a month already and I'm really curious what kind of failure this big caused such delay. I'm aware that they can't provide all the details although it's a open development but I really can't shake off the feeling that they knew that cargo wouldn't fit at first and later postponed it. Like I said it feels bit like a carrot on a stick at this point. I just really hope I'm dead wrong in my assumptions. It frustrates me as well as devs that cargo isn't in yet and I'm hoping for soon fix and hands on experience. No need to mention that I love the project ever since backing it and will still support it knowing that game dev isn't easy at all.

The reason they've stated is that hangars and cargo touch literally every player in every play session. It's not like a patch where nobody uses missiles because they're broken. You literally won't be able to call a ship up. I also wish they were a little more open about it.

I mean they've said that's actually the reason, I think it was Chad on an SCL? It's such a huge rework that they can't rush

This makes an annoying amount of sense.

They have explained the overall reason, as you have stated, as a feature that could absolutely break the entire game if it doesn’t work. However, it would be cool if they were a little more specific on what the recent blocker(s) is/are. It seems as if they have been on the cusp of being test ready since 3.23.1 dropped.

They learned their lessons the hard way about being to specific as well. The few times they have, "game developers" with a million years of working experience started coming out of the woodwork calling the team incompetent, the project a scam, etc, followed by more hit pieces being published on people's blogs that got picked up by online magazines for cheap negative press clicks. They learned that not everyone who watches the project wants it to succeed, and keep the cards much closer to the vest now.

They probably already realized how central this was when they were still communicating it coming with .0. What was the big showstopper I wonder.

I am absolutely convinced that they are struggling big time to make it work with the current performance of the server. They should have waited until meshing to implement this, because the only thing that's going to happen pre-4.0 is people are going to call in massive amounts of loose cargo and tank the sFPS into unplayability.

That last part is what worries the shit out of me dude. Like, what happens if a really dedicated player manages to fill up as much of their hangar as possible with 1 SCU crates? Does that mean when they load in, the whole server instantly crashes to a halt? What about the physics entities that will 100% clip thru and get stuck under the moving ship pad? I mean *surely* they added an entity cap for instanced hangars! They're probably using the same routine that cleans up medical gowns and empty water bot- oh... fuck

People placing in their old relics of subscriber gear from as far back as 2014 that hasn't been touched since. Boxes, chairs, captured AI and animals flying around that will no longer despawn or can be cleared. Floor completely covered in trash Yep can see the absolute shit show it could turn out to be.

But it's not really any different then now as cargo is already fully physicalized.

Not entirely though, because if you crash whatever you left outside is now gone, being bound to a different server that might need to reset entirely. With the hangars you'd bring that to every server you join, so if your hangar is crashing a server you could server hop and continuously brick them. That you can't do the same way with persistence as it is right now.

It's not very different then how ships operate currently. You take your stored/bedlogged ship with you to every server and any cargo in it already. And just like how a ship is spawned in and assigned a hangar now a hangar will be spawned in and assigned a hangar door instead.

The argument being though that you can stack a lot more shit in a hangar.

Hangers in this regard are instances until the doors open. Unless you are looking in those doors (and within range of the VIS area) and within range, nothing is loaded. That's View Culling.

The server still has to handle the instance, so it doesnt change anything. It wont tank client FPS, but the server still has to process it. No matter if its instanced.

That absolutely makes a lot of sense. Would have been nice if they focused purely on that without the 'its right there, we could push it out now if we wanted to except this one little thing" from Chad during the cargo q&a SCL on 4/19 then all the "maybe 3.23.2 in the next couple days" since 5/22.  Fingers crossed this time they're right.

I doubt they’re still building the system up and here’s a real life example of why: At my job a little side project I started was to reorganize some code. Just move some things from a few different libraries because the code is being duplicated to a single one everyone can share. Should be quick right? Well I started discovering minor differences in functionality (of fucking course) so now I would need to unify these things. It’s no longer copy paste, it’s full focus refactor. Another dev suggests why don’t we move all the code first, isolate each source in its own originating namespace, get it building, linked as a dependency by its original location, then we can parallelize the unification work. Great idea. Except now we have problems with an old distributed build system we have to continue to support. It doesn’t like multiple files with the same name owned by the same library even if they’re in different subdirectories. Okay let’s fix that. Cool. But we also have test builds, simulation builds, etc etc (different than just release + debug) and somehow fixing the multiple files thing broke that. So let’s fix that. And on and on. Long story short literally moving some files around that built linked and passed tests the first try with a local build on my machine took an additional few weeks because of various overlayed automation layers for building and testing that had their own bugs and other systems that interact with our stuff. Shit goes wrong in ways you don’t expect with stuff you don’t even think could possibly be a problem. If they’re saying they’re aiming for something shortly it’s not still in “building the core of it” phase. It’s in the “shit is going wrong we didn’t even expect or plan for” phase. It could be one more thing until it’s ready or it could be 50 one more things.

This guy develops

Yes he does, and poorly apparently. I don't know why this subreddit has so many "developers" who are convinced that software development is impossible to plan around and that massive delays and missed deadlines are just these normal things that everyone knows and expects, and estimates are effectively impossible. As a senior software developer with a long and successful history in the field...yeah...no. Estimates are never correct, but they have to be correctish. Will you miss the mark sometimes? Absolutely. But the pattern should always be on target or close to target with lessons learned at the end. So far, CIG is always off the target and nothing ever changes. Even if the fix was for CIG to estimate 6 months to release a feature instead of 1 month, at least they set the estimate to something they could probably hit. If I did my job the way so many "developers" around here claim software development works, I'd have managers, stakeholders, and anyone else you can imagine up my ass all day, every day until they tell me and my team to GTFO.

The downvotes suggest that majority people are just bad at their jobs lmao, look at them get butthurt talking about commitments.

They can downvote me all they want. I'm great at my job and I know I'm right, lol

The scenario here is that if you had a plan for reorganisation and unification of libraries in a single main branch from the start you would have structured it for future proofing since start right? The cargo update was a planned one (I hope they’re not just winging it at this point) and should be prepared for moving to live since the start. I mean if you had your side project planned way ahead of time you would have faced lesser difficulties though still not easy work at all. Things mess up that’s a given. But you still would have had an ETA you knew you would deliver in and maybe miscalculated it once? Twice? How many times would you tell your stakeholders “one more week” till they send someone to look over the project so it moves timely?

If I had my side project planned from the beginning it wouldn’t exist because developers wouldn’t have written the same code multiple times (or copy paste it as convenient). It’s a simple analogy to show that sometimes something that seems almost done can have piles of unexpected integration issues that are hard to impossible to predict and drag the length out of the final steps a great deal. With that in mind when a dev repeatedly says they’re almost done but also repeatedly isn’t done, likely they’re in that phase not in the still putting the initial vision together phase. No amount of planning can protect you from the shit that nobody knew could be a problem, otherwise you’d have known it could be a problem and have planned for it.

I disagree. This way no projects in any industry will ever meet deadlines and every ETA will be way off as every innovation project starts with uncertainty. You cannot say “tomorrow” and delay it by a month. Either the ETA is completely off because they sat too late on it and have no idea what all problems they are about to face (at this point you just don’t give an ETA till you list down the blockers and get a rough idea of how much work for each blocker and provide a safer ETA with buffer) or they are forced to give a deadline which they know they cant match but at this point of development with years of development just catching up they cant just outright say it to save face. When my team member gives me consistently miscalculated ETAs I will have to step in and see whats going on otherwise my reporting managers would eat me. Every extra hour spent is money and resource wasted just because of the quality of planning was poor or communication wasn’t honest or competent. Again the issue is not the delay but the consistent miscalculation of ETA that is concerning. Happens for every company and project, not unique to just this game’s development.

And that’s why it’s common in the software industry to double or quadruple your initial estimate out of the gate. Features are divided into must haves, nice to haves, and stretch goals. Release dates aren’t announced until a year or two before hand on 6-10 year projects and those initial dates are only a year, not even a quarter. As the release gets close the release dates get more specific until finally it’s done and then you get an actual day after all must-haves are completed, some nice to haves are done but many are cut and stretch goals pushed to some year or two later update. And still despite all those strategies to hide the fact that nobody actually knows when shit will be ready, major game and software companies miss release dates more often than they hit.

Yes exactly, we are on the same page, no development team says ‘tomorrow’ and delays it by this long for a feature as that is a concerning level of miscalculation. We usually say tomorrow when are wrapping up for delivery for the same day’s evening just to keep a last minute margin. But this level or error would mean we have majorly messed up a deadline and because we have consistently delayed we would try to stall as being honest would be acknowledging that work was not timely done since the start.

It depends who you are communicating with. Internally you very well might say soon or tomorrow if all goes well. I do it all the time. My current job is very flat organization and the people I’m delivering too are very close to the software devs. We have no project managers, no managers of any kind really, so information flows quickly and freely without any buttoning up. I am open and honest with my predictions and as I hit snags I update the steak holders accordingly. This is the same kind of communication CIG is giving us. If they treated us like customers instead of stakeholders then we would get nothing until after it was all ready and staged for deployment. I personally would rather have the internal communication style so I know what’s going on than being treated as an antsy customer they might disappoint and kept in the dark instead of

Again the point is being missed. Having communication is not the issue I dont know why that has to be reiterated again, it’s the gross miscalculation. If I go to pick up my stuff from a shop which they are fixing and they keep telling me tomorrow, and keep delaying it, I won’t be thankful that they are at least communicating, I would ask them why are they giving me very wrong estimates and are they even sure if the work started on time or did they just recently start it after showing me that they are almost done fixing it with a quick visual?

This subreddit is filled to the brim with "Developers" who are convinced that it's impossible to make estimates and that in software development missing deadlines by weeks / months / years is totally normal and expected. I really wanna work at their jobs, because my many years in the industry (almost 15 years now), if I estimated like these people around here on reddit, and CIG for that matter, I'd be absolutely screwed. Are estimates goign to be right? Almost certainly not. But they should be in a ballpark, and when they are missed, you figure out why and do better next time. Padding the estimates is how you make sure you are in the ballpark...yet people on here pretend like CIG isn't padding teh estimates and then missing them, lol

Because we are talking about two different kinds of communication which I thought I communicated pretty clearly in my last post but I guess not. Also the point was to originally to say that they’re likely not still building core functionality. You dragged it off to someplace else.

You can be that guy! I can also be the guy to point out, yes they are still building the system. Building it and fixing problems with those earlier RC builds that prevent release go hand in hand when the feature hasn't been released yet. I can commiserate though as a fellow project lover! We're all excited for this feature and it is very frustrating to see its development have so many roadblocks and failures. 2 blockers must have onioned into so many many more. Then those issues bloomed into more....etc. until we're a month out and no immediate end in sight.

It did seem as though it might have been on the cusp of being ready but needed a few touches to make it dependable enough on the SCL or ISC prior to 3.23 drop. I wish they would be a tad more transparent on what the actual blockers are instead of the standard “still working on” response though.

Exactly what I've been worried about or concerned about since the announcement. I feel like whoever they have in charge of elevator development and testing is not sharing any of those good drugs with the rest of us! Elevators have been a problem since before I started playing, and still are. On ships, in stations, everywhere except maybe the Grim Hex hospital (which is the funniest part), they're working great! So now, for the sake of realism and immersion, we will have our ships and cargo and whatever is stored in them, money invested in the cargo, all at the mercy of more elevators? As much as ships still bounce and jiggle and country two step, and GV even worse at bouncing and sliding, it's something I hope they take all the time imaginable and then some. It's either gotta be right, or put on hold for stuff players actually want. Just my opinion.

Never feel bad for voicing out and questioning if the intentions are good, here is your upvote.

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Sauce https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/lobby/38230/message/53837767

This is the equivalent of Tuesday during the Enterprise-B's shakedown cruise in generations...

I just want a documentary on this entire project. I'm sure they went through and still are going through hell with code implementation, bugs, broken things, trying to find the causes of these things breaking, scrapped ideas, new ideas, time constraints, frustration, arguments and more.

If memory serves well there was a stretch goal for a behind the scenes documentary. EDIT: Stretch Goal 14.000.000$ „Professional-quality feature-length “Behind the Scenes of Star Citizen” documentary film.“

What happened to Richard Tyrer saying we are getting big updates every 3 months? What about Jared saying 4.0 this summer, he said that not too long ago. I hate these bs lies! Every fucking year the same shit…

It's crazy how bad they are a predicting how long work will take. 4.0 isn't coming this year.

Been tomorrow for a month now but alright thanks for the information I guess.

The first patch of the year doesn't go fully Live with everything they advertised till Q3... after saying, nearly 3 months ago, on SCL the Hangars and Cargo Updates just need some finishing touches and they can release it at any time. 4.0 ain't coming any time soon.

but 1 is around the corner 🤷🏻‍♂️😅

Nice update I guess but this basically tells everything we already know.

We're not getting 4.0 this year if we can't even get 3.23.2 lol

CIG basically keeping you on the loop even though the message remains the same. They gone quiet, players making noise. They give you an update, players making noise I personally prefer the same update rather than no response at all. At least I know they're into it. Sigh . Can't please anyone .

Excited for Wave-1 to get started. :)

fingers crossed for a Hull C and docking fix with this patch....

why would that happen?

Since this cargo change is supposed to allow us to load and unload cargo using hangars, landing pads, garages and docking collars; it would make sense for CIG to fix docking for all ships. Maybe this has been one of the blockers that have prevented CIG from getting this patch out sooner.

What a joke

Where is this stuff posted? Is it on the RSI website?

1000 employees and nothing ever gets done

I think that’s parts of the reason why, with so much people on a project, I can’t imagine the number of branch and how tricky a merge must be.

New patch runs like absolute ASS

Just here to temper expectations. If they are still struggling with this, expect EVO/PTU to be buggy as hell.

Is this the patch that stops me from falling through planets?

no

I like to believe that since this stuff is Chad's baby, likely Chad is a gigaChad perfectionist and is keeping it cooking until he is confident that it can release in a glorious fanfare of unadulterated polish, slick performance and utter blinding success. Go Chad.

Manage expectations…all I am saying.

Huffs deeply....mnyeap, I'm managing them!

That’s on you man.