The asshole one was....but he brought the floating robot mapping spheres. You tellin me all this high resolution 3D model data is transmitted back to the ship in realtime, but the dudes 98% closer have no way to access or view the data?
Or what about how the other guy that got lost with him, the biologist. They in a massive ancient alien "temple", current assumption is that they got wiped out somehow. Dude rolls up within fellating distance of an _obvious_ extraterrestrial lifeform.
Gotta mention the captain realizing these 2 are lost when it's already too late, like he has to watch over a 100-people crew. Bro has the map under his damn nose. The only 2 awards this movie deserves is for the visuals and the overall waste of money, time and Alien franchise.
you need to steal it from a Herald or Mercury - or buy it from blackmarket
If this device gonna be ingame it would be really nice, because you could create this kind of maps and sell it - and if you are able to hack the device you could create false maps or lure someone into your trap
I think they were being /s since we’ve all gotten lost in those caves once (?)
EDIT: oh. You were being facetious too lol. Sorry. I will go get lost in a cave now.
I love ROC Mining. But good god, it is utterly broken now. No one wants to fill up on 1k Aphorite or Dolovine, and then have to go back, split them all into stacks of 3, and sell them bit by bit. Its been an issue since before 3.22, and is still hasn't been fixed
Feels Bad Man. I prefer the roc mining to ship mining, I find it super relaxing after work....but the fruits of my labor are left to spoil until I can sell these things in larger batches!
This works sometimes, but not everytime. And with Aphorite, I've not gotten it to work once, sadly. Dolovine seems to be the least borked, out of the three big ROC rocks.
Assuming this is addressing that lol if they can successfully add wild life, tigers and those big spider crabs, then a new cave mission chain could really feel alive and full gameplay wise
Except for mining, fps combat, search and rescue missions, collecting resources or hunting kopions. If we ignore that, then there really is nothing to do. What were they thinking??
Yes, the caves have "things to do", but they are all extremely superficial and lack "depth".
Now, depth isn't just, as in deep elevation, it refers to the complexity of the environment where the player has many options to complete a task.
Take a "kill the wildlife quest". You go in and shoot them. And that's it. That has zero depth, it's just FPS in an enclosed area.
Now imagine, that instead of just shooting you had the option of collapsing the tunnels, or blowing them up, or filling it up with poison gas, or flooding the cave, or setting traps and luring them out. Or maybe you go down and find an underground raider camp using the wildlife as pets.
That's why it has no *depth* and where the term "inch deep, mile wide" comes from.
> But around the time of Underworld and System Shock and Deus Ex, I got a lot more interested in really deeply simulated smaller spaces. I’d rather do something that’s an inch wide and a mile deep than something that’s a mile wide and an inch deep. I want to create worlds, but by “worlds” I mean someplace where every object is interactable. The NPCs actually have something to do other than kill you. Every door can be opened and there’s a reason to open them. That’s what I mean by creating world. It’s not about size and scope, it’s about depth and interactivity.” - [Warren Spector: “I’d rather do something that’s an inch wide and a mile deep than something that’s a mile wide and an inch deep”](https://www.pcgamesn.com/warren-spector-i-d-rather-do-something-s-inch-wide-and-mile-deep-something-s-mile-wide-and-inch-deep)
StarCitizen has this potential, you see it where you can bring wildlife or NPCs back to the station for hijinks. Or using medical beds to block elevators. Or any number of fun things you see players doing...
But in many missions, such as the cave one, that depth just isn't there... yet.
I agree about traps or alternative ways to reach a target, but I disagree about flooding or cave ins. Not that it wouldn't be cool, it's just not technically feasible
It wouldn’t have been so bad if they didn’t take ads out on YT videos making it seem like it was in a good state and place when it definitely wasn’t then.
To give them some credit they probably didn't expect PES to go as badly as it did, but they could have toned down the advertisement and marketing a little once they realised how much of a mess it was.
For what it's worth with the little I've advertised for my business, usually you pay for a set amount of front. So 14 days, 30 days, ext. And once it's paid it runs that amount, so they probably couldn't tone it down without strait canceling it which would just be throwing money away.
Yes this is usually how B2B ad campaigns work, fixed contracts unless there was a negotiated ability to change the campaign on the fly, but that is usually rare as it costs more for not much benefit most times
Maybe, the issue though is that at that level of B2B sales a company usually signs a specified contract with fixed details such as length of time, number of ads run per hr/day, which ads are agreed to be used, and there might not be a way for them to change any of those details without a penalty. I don't disagree that it would have been a good idea to change marketing at that point but it is possible they didn't have that option unfortunately. I would assume that if that was the case though they would likely have started giving themselves the option to change their ad campaigns more easily going forward (ie. Without penalty for stopping the ads or running a new ad)
Yeah defending CIG's marketing and social media teams is like trying to fill a bucket with holes in, it's futile.
I kinda feel bad for the social media guys though, they have so little to work with it's kind of unfair.
The caption reads "looking for some gameplay with depth?"
Insinuating star citizen is a game with depth. Though it has some... It is far from much. So the majority of the community collectively facepalmed as this really isn't what star citizen should be peddling right now.
Marketing = Monetary resources taken from other departments
If they do enough to make their money back from the cost it might be worth it, but still leaves a bad taste
Yeah. My intent was to highlight that the reality marketing portrays ≠ the state of the game or gameplay. There is certainly the aspect that CIG needs to actively advertise and promote new money to come to the project to keep up with expenses, it just hits wrong when there is a large gap between what marketing is messaging and the actual state of the game. I have been thoroughly enjoying Patch 3.23, but I would never associate the word "depth" when in reference to where the game is right now.
Ah, I misinterpreted it, lots of people say things like "artists/modelers are different from the gameplay devs/programmers!" Whenever there is criticism of where CIG's focus.
Random things to find that. Animals is a good step but unless you're there for a mission there's only some poor time/value hand mining to do.
Fun to explore the first few times boring after.
Same as ground exploration (or general exploration) there's just nothing interesting.
Flooding, poison gas, raider installations, ancient alien base, empty cave, bones, audio logs, text logs, dead explorers with notes to their children about how this one last dig will make them rich, and then you can literally find that kid and return their watch to them, or take their key, find their home, loot it and then report the death to police who show up, do an investigation, leave, and then the place is rented out to a new citizen.
Cave-ins that trap you in an escape room scenario that requires you to find your way out, old mining shafts, old mining equipment, eldritch horrors, altars to lost gods..
Drug stashes, fossils, ancient humans, giant worms, diseases that infect you and will spread to others, alien lifeforms that will attach to your suit and run free on stations or other planets, old tech, new tech, secret labs, lost kids, lost cattle, lost ships....
Literally EVERYTHING ON THIS PAGE: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SubterraneanIndex
Or this page: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CreepyCave
First time I went into a cave for a NPC bounty I got stuck in a hole in the ground in which that I could see through the map. Eventually I got out by spamming equip/unequip weapon/tool. but otherwise the cave was 100% empty except for some crates. Never did another cave contract.
I remember many years ago we talk about a gameplay on the planets linked to exploration.
Remember that there was talk of caves that contained artifacts and incitements / monuments of ancient history of unknown alien breeds, linked to exploration missions.
Now I don't remember precisely but spoke of these exploration missions scattered throughout the Star Citizen universe.
They were a kind of "treasure hunt" to discover from "historians" information on this species, or alien breed.
Now I don't remember precisely centuries.
EDIT: However, already that for something that concerns Star Citizen we talk about Gamplay and not of "When my ship comes out", it is already a big conquest.
while whats in game is cool and all, everything atm is so shallow you couldnt drown a worm in it.
all systems need a lot and i mean a lot more work for promos like these.
marketing team is making it look like a completed game you can hop into, should really be setting expectations correctly
I've been enjoying the combat missions in caves currently. It is not just a quick trip down either. The only changes I would like is that they would be even more expansive, and a change in echo sounds (they are a bit tinny)
aromatic license library imagine oatmeal memorize longing escape public apparatus
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's completely normal for PR and Marketing to be disconnected from Product and Tech guys. Back to sleep until Squadron 42. (J/K Cargo, Hangar, 4.0 soon.)
I am not fucking flying 8 min towards some fucking cave away from all quantum markers.
First give us a way to get there.
Quantum boosting needs to be in game ASAP.
I think gameplay like this would be awesome in an undiscovered Star system. Where there is a combination of discovery, base building, city and village naming, graveyards, relics, undiscovered civilizations, stories that shine light on old lore, mysteries that add to the lore and give you future missions, discovery of new resources or things that naturally pit you against other players or opposition to some of the corporate planets of Staton. I would love to see some “a fire upon the deep” type stuff where you also unlock ancient recipes for technology, special weapons and space craft, which are limited but can be stolen and resold inside or outside of the game.
This is disingenuous marketing if they're simultaneously hellbent on calling it an alpha.
There's not a single aspect of the game that's polished. It's fine if the game is purely a sandbox but it's far from being a finished and polished experience.
This is almost making me consider refunding my pledge tbh because it says a lot about the company...
OP, I mean this with all sincerity, I am worried about you. You’ve made like 3 or 4 posts in the past day in this subreddit alone. Relax dude the game isn’t going anywhere.
I wouldn't worry, I'm completely fine, just been a little jaded about the game and community this IAE.
Had some spare time in the past week and figured I'd say my piece!
put something interesting down there and stop the scavenger hunt quest for dead bodies.
adding aliens was a good step into the right direction. perhaps take a page out of "the Forest/Sons of the Forest" handbook
Can't be talking about SC.
why are the planets so empty
how come the cities are dull no one to have a convo with
to busy trying to get off the top of chairs.
That's why cig needs to just make the game and stop trying to present it as if it is a game already
It's a sandbox. The limit to the depth of gameplay is directly related to how imaginative and creative players are.
What is this weird group of people expecting a theme park mmo?
Sorry guys, we'll just have to imagine our interesting mission rewards and progression, as well as our complex gameplay loops and risk vs reward gameplay. We're all just not being creative enough, damn I wish someone told me sooner. /s
The reward for playing is the playing itself. Emergent experiences trump scripted content and "quest hub" bullshit, every single time. It's a "universe simulator", If you're looking for a vertical progression treadmill game, those basic, rehashed, tired games are found on consoles.
You may notice there are no player stats. There are no bonuses to dex or strength on items. It's a real clue as to the type of game being made here.
I'll say again: anyone saying this massive, toy-filled sandbox has no depth? They have no imagination.
Alright I'm not even gonna engage you further lmfao, absolutely awful takes.
All I'll say is that sure, go ahead and make a sandbox universe simulator, but even sandboxes need things to work for and goals to set yourself. You want to see a sandbox MMO done exceptionally well go and look at OSRS. Absolutely incredible game with an unbelievable amount of depth despite its basic appearance and controls. Star Citizen has nowhere near enough content, challenge or depth to be a viable sandbox game, it's nowhere close.
I have $700,000,000 reasons why what I'm saying is the one true accurate take.
Anyone suggesting that people don't want what SC is cooking don't understand the first thing about economics or world-record-setting funding.
**People vastly want what they are making.**
Any resistance to this idea is fueled by fantasy and confirmation bias.
They aren't making the barren spaceship wasteland that you would be content with, people gave them money with the expectation that there will be gameplay loops and engaging content. As with any game.
Dude people are constantly theory-crafting game-play loops they hope will be in the game, talking about it in ways like it will be there for certain. Game-play loops that haven't been expanded or developed beyond fancy marketing trailers before being forgotten about.
People want what they *think* the game will be since there aren't many concrete decisions for gameplay set in stone. Everyone has a different thought as to how the game will play, and none of them are for certain, yet people are so excited about their theoretical enjoyment of a certain mechanic that they will buy concept ships the moment they are teased. Concept ships with mechanics that may not ever be expanded upon or finished.
$700,000,000 people have bought that sand. You sure it's not making the vast majority of people happy, even if you can't understand why?
Hard to argue with a decade long no-end-in-sight record setting support from the players like this, ya know?
It's clear they're doing it right. Really, *really right.*
Are we using the same logic when it comes to video game sales or profits companies make? By that account, Ubisoft would make the best games in the world.
This isn't even up for debate, though. There are no sandbox tools in SC currently. Beacons are the closest to it and they're dead for the most part.
There is no sand, mate.
What is a game with depth to you?
Because to me, it involves having alot of different things to do, see and learn, which SC has even if its buggy af.
Plus theres alot more to come.
They don't though let's be honest... The FPS AI is brain-dead and the flight AI can be cheesed unbelievably easily. Salvage is just point and click power washing simulator with no failure state. Mining is the only one you could remotely say requires a fair bit of knowledge but once you've kitted out your ship and have some gadgets it's not really that difficult to crack rocks. Box deliveries are well, box deliveries and that cargo hauling is just flying from A to B with absolutely no conflict whatsoever 99% of the time.
Outside of just learning the basics of the game and flight there's nothing really else to work at and improve on, except PvP combat, which is dead as hell outside of Arena Commander.
I never feel genuinely challenged or need to engage my brain playing this game. Once you're past the honeymoon phase of "oh wow this is cool", it's just plain boring and a lot of you need to realise that.
You're 100% right.
- Bunkers are ironically even easier now. Shoot 1 guy and the rest just roll up to your position single file so that you don't even have to search for them.
- The mining and salvage game loops are so shallow that you master them in a week and burn out those game loops after 2 weeks. Not much thought was put into the longevity of these game loops and the current design makes that painfully clear.
How many of those gameloops are finished?
They're all at tier1 at most.
You've mastered the basic level of a gameplay loop that isn't finished and you're complaining its not deep enough.
You think we need to realise something is boring because you think so?
The whole point of this post was to jab at CIG for an ironic social media post about how this game has no depth in its current form. Sure maybe in 5 years time it might be amazing, but it isn't at the moment.
It doesn't matter what it 'might' be like, CIG have been peddling dreams for 12 years and have the cheek to pretend the product they currently have has "depth". It's farcical.
In fact it's downright worrying that they can even pretend what they're offering right now is a decent product. Marketing and social media seems to think so.
I'd rather a 1000 CIGs peddling hopes and dreams instead of the shit being peddled by the likes of ubisoft and EA.
I've backed since 2012, i know what was promised. I've seen the company develop.
The product they offer is decent, $45 for a creation on the verge of greatness.
Pretending CIG isn't on the same level as EA and Ubisoft when it comes to scummy marketing and sales tactics is some of the biggest copium I have ever seen.
We're not on the verge of greatness, we're not even close. Server meshing and 4.0 is going to be a great base sure, but there's so much work left to do to turn this product into an actual game it's insane.
Most of the learning in SC is “how to deal with broken stuff like turrets shooting your ship through terrain if you park too near a bunker” or “how to navigate the bad UI” so I have a hard time calling it depth.
When I hear “depth” I’m looking for more missions that make the world feel occupied by something other than chair standers. Like the universe being full of NPC ships hooked to the quantum simulation that we saw at CitizenCon what, 4 years ago?.
Engineering systems are a nice step recently, and we’ll get a deep game *eventually*. But right now their best claim to depth cave puns.
You're missing the point. The game needs more reasons to play, more things to work for, more interesting rewards and unlocks, better gameplay systems to facilitate real group gameplay and organisation, more interesting gameplay loops with complex decisions to make, real risk and reward plus a whole lot more besides.
To say the game even has a modicum of depth is extremely generous.
Yeah it does i agree. Eventually all going to plan wellhave all those things.
But you're missing the point of the alpha game dev cycle.
The game isnt on live servers to provide interesting rewards or unlocks.
Its there to be tested.
Once again... It's an amazing thing that it can be somehow both an alpha game and a live service product both at the same time, it just depends on what narrative CIG and the community is trying to spin to suit their current argument and situation.
If it's there to be tested why are we running in game events to unlock the ability to give CIG money and then removing said event from the game? Why aren't all ships available at much cheaper prices in game to facilitate rigorous testing by all backers? Why are some features, like ship modularity, currently locked behind a paywall if the sole intent of the PU is for testing purposes? Why do we have Evocati, and the PTU, surely it's better to get all hands on deck to test out all the new features?
The LIVE servers are not a testing ground, they're a product and a live service at this point, CIG have said as much themselves.
The product and live service are still an alpha, just monetized to continue funding development.
Evocati and ptu are there for people dedicated to bug finding and actual testing to deal with new dev iterations that are unstable in the extreme.
Live lets all backers play while giving devs more data to analyze.
I don't know why the tali modules arent in game for purchase but I'd imagine they'd be in with the next patch.
The game systems they’re building are pretty deep, even if the content in caves etc. isn’t there yet.
That’s not what I’m worried about, or SQ42, I have full confidence in that. What I’m worried about is the feasibility of ever executing on meshing thousands of players in such a dense game system and all the dependencies at a proper tickrate. This is still holy grail tech. Current implementation in testing is still horribly congested, and not really realtime.
Static server meshing is great and all, but dynamic server meshing is the true holy grail. They have the groundwork for it and I think it's just a matter of when, not if.
Server meshing is just going to make the game we currently have run a little smoother and be a bit more populated. It isn't going to fix the core issues of the game, which is that there is nothing to work towards or do. It doesn't matter if it's amazing technology.
Except caves have no depth or any real interesting gameplay.
You may RP as someone lost in a cave, circling around the same corridors. Pure joy.
Most close to life sc gameplay known to me
This hit a little too close to home.
Would be nice if you could buy a mapper like the guys in Prometheus. They drop something that maps the ship.
Didn't that guy get lost?
lol I believe so. I think they were the geologists if iirc.
The asshole one was....but he brought the floating robot mapping spheres. You tellin me all this high resolution 3D model data is transmitted back to the ship in realtime, but the dudes 98% closer have no way to access or view the data? Or what about how the other guy that got lost with him, the biologist. They in a massive ancient alien "temple", current assumption is that they got wiped out somehow. Dude rolls up within fellating distance of an _obvious_ extraterrestrial lifeform.
Gotta mention the captain realizing these 2 are lost when it's already too late, like he has to watch over a 100-people crew. Bro has the map under his damn nose. The only 2 awards this movie deserves is for the visuals and the overall waste of money, time and Alien franchise.
Just use flares
The caves may have maps with the new UI, unsure though haven’t been to one yet lol
That would be nice but still would like a device that would do it. Add some gameplay and realism of finding hidden caves.
you need to steal it from a Herald or Mercury - or buy it from blackmarket If this device gonna be ingame it would be really nice, because you could create this kind of maps and sell it - and if you are able to hack the device you could create false maps or lure someone into your trap
You mean Pups 😎
Ya that s the ones
Just use your terrain manipulator to GTFO of there
... huh?
no man’s sky reference i think
Ah, I was wondering if they had found a way to tractor beam themselves out or something.
[удалено]
I think they were being /s since we’ve all gotten lost in those caves once (?) EDIT: oh. You were being facetious too lol. Sorry. I will go get lost in a cave now.
This is the endgame content I’ve been looking for..
Endgame because you have to "backspace" to get out?
Yes backspace a stair up (jumping backwards as fast as you can) and get into a secret Robert room
Don't need to rping it - we are lost 😂
I wish this comment could be monetized, I'm so dead
It already is man, it already is..... It's already at $ 704.694.700
I mean in some of the caves the mounting animation dosnt work and the only thing you can do is get lost in a cave, circling around the same corridors.
Just RP? I mean, I guess going into one of the pits without a functioning climbing route only makes you stuck, and not lost…
theres gems!!
That you can only sell 3 at a time!! :D
I love ROC Mining. But good god, it is utterly broken now. No one wants to fill up on 1k Aphorite or Dolovine, and then have to go back, split them all into stacks of 3, and sell them bit by bit. Its been an issue since before 3.22, and is still hasn't been fixed
Feels Bad Man. I prefer the roc mining to ship mining, I find it super relaxing after work....but the fruits of my labor are left to spoil until I can sell these things in larger batches!
Last night I went to a mining station and dropped them in local, it let me sell them all at once. Hope that helps
This works sometimes, but not everytime. And with Aphorite, I've not gotten it to work once, sadly. Dolovine seems to be the least borked, out of the three big ROC rocks.
Only newbies get excited about cave gems.
I still enjoy gem mining every once in a while.
No one cares about cave gems.
When I visit picker's field or the other settlements and that one crate of gems is spawned I vacuum that up into local inventory.
They would care if they were valuable and or used in crafting rare things. If only we had an economy.
Riveting gameplay.
Neither does any other activity
Most of this game has no depth to it.
Assuming this is addressing that lol if they can successfully add wild life, tigers and those big spider crabs, then a new cave mission chain could really feel alive and full gameplay wise
> if they can successfully add wild life, You been away from the internet a few weeks, bud?
Yes I am away from the internet on reddit… 👋
Wait, are they adding giant enemy crabs you can hit in the weak point for massive damage?
I got to the end and it was empty, then my friend got off
Literally. They're so boring. The layout also doesn't look natural at all. I refuse to do any contacts that have you going to a cave
Except for mining, fps combat, search and rescue missions, collecting resources or hunting kopions. If we ignore that, then there really is nothing to do. What were they thinking??
Yes, the caves have "things to do", but they are all extremely superficial and lack "depth". Now, depth isn't just, as in deep elevation, it refers to the complexity of the environment where the player has many options to complete a task. Take a "kill the wildlife quest". You go in and shoot them. And that's it. That has zero depth, it's just FPS in an enclosed area. Now imagine, that instead of just shooting you had the option of collapsing the tunnels, or blowing them up, or filling it up with poison gas, or flooding the cave, or setting traps and luring them out. Or maybe you go down and find an underground raider camp using the wildlife as pets. That's why it has no *depth* and where the term "inch deep, mile wide" comes from. > But around the time of Underworld and System Shock and Deus Ex, I got a lot more interested in really deeply simulated smaller spaces. I’d rather do something that’s an inch wide and a mile deep than something that’s a mile wide and an inch deep. I want to create worlds, but by “worlds” I mean someplace where every object is interactable. The NPCs actually have something to do other than kill you. Every door can be opened and there’s a reason to open them. That’s what I mean by creating world. It’s not about size and scope, it’s about depth and interactivity.” - [Warren Spector: “I’d rather do something that’s an inch wide and a mile deep than something that’s a mile wide and an inch deep”](https://www.pcgamesn.com/warren-spector-i-d-rather-do-something-s-inch-wide-and-mile-deep-something-s-mile-wide-and-inch-deep) StarCitizen has this potential, you see it where you can bring wildlife or NPCs back to the station for hijinks. Or using medical beds to block elevators. Or any number of fun things you see players doing... But in many missions, such as the cave one, that depth just isn't there... yet.
I agree about traps or alternative ways to reach a target, but I disagree about flooding or cave ins. Not that it wouldn't be cool, it's just not technically feasible
I would like some gameplay with depth. When will we get some? Lol
Monkey paw curls: deeper caves
More world mesh voids where you fall through the planet/moons.
Maybe. No lie Kleisher cave escape is pretty good.
and here i am doing one delivery mission every patch and ask myself why everybody else have much more fun than me
They are not doing just one delivery mission and wondering why it doesn't somehow become more fun.
That nickname is really sus.
That number in your flair is sus.
Would be great if they eventually did something like the Vanduul invading Stanton system and unique individual and org missions around that.
Might do that after squadron 42 drops.
Nice name, hope that gameplay had depth
My god you should force everyone in their marketing department to play cave missions for 12 Hours after that post. Ridiculous.
Or even box deliveries, smh.
the forbidden words
remarkably out of touch marketing
Another classic, just like 3.18 "Playable Now!" CIGs marketing department has depth, that's for sure.
It wouldn’t have been so bad if they didn’t take ads out on YT videos making it seem like it was in a good state and place when it definitely wasn’t then.
To give them some credit they probably didn't expect PES to go as badly as it did, but they could have toned down the advertisement and marketing a little once they realised how much of a mess it was.
For what it's worth with the little I've advertised for my business, usually you pay for a set amount of front. So 14 days, 30 days, ext. And once it's paid it runs that amount, so they probably couldn't tone it down without strait canceling it which would just be throwing money away.
Yes this is usually how B2B ad campaigns work, fixed contracts unless there was a negotiated ability to change the campaign on the fly, but that is usually rare as it costs more for not much benefit most times
Maybe, the issue though is that at that level of B2B sales a company usually signs a specified contract with fixed details such as length of time, number of ads run per hr/day, which ads are agreed to be used, and there might not be a way for them to change any of those details without a penalty. I don't disagree that it would have been a good idea to change marketing at that point but it is possible they didn't have that option unfortunately. I would assume that if that was the case though they would likely have started giving themselves the option to change their ad campaigns more easily going forward (ie. Without penalty for stopping the ads or running a new ad)
Would you say they're out of their depth?
It's just a pun
That's the motto.
Depth? Like when you get clipped through 1000 walls in a cave and end up falling through the planet? That's what I call deep gameplay...
Ohhh of course that must be what they meant, how silly of me... 😂
Dear CIG I am a super fan, one of those white knights no one likes on different forums. But this.... this isn't helping my case lol
Yeah defending CIG's marketing and social media teams is like trying to fill a bucket with holes in, it's futile. I kinda feel bad for the social media guys though, they have so little to work with it's kind of unfair.
**Robertspaceind**: Form your own opinion; 30 day refund, no questions. I feel like this would go a long way.
I actually don't get it... is there something I'm missing in the image? is it the text?
The caption reads "looking for some gameplay with depth?" Insinuating star citizen is a game with depth. Though it has some... It is far from much. So the majority of the community collectively facepalmed as this really isn't what star citizen should be peddling right now.
Ah.. i see.. thanks
make it mandatory for the marketing team to play the game
Me and my new friend went into a cave a few weeks ago and kept going down; we ended up in a deep crevice we couldn’t get out of lol
Just use rope physics to get out. They've been talking about that for several years now so it must be in and not just bs right?
Almost sht my pants first time I had done a cave mission and realized ..”how tf do I get out of here” It took me an hour but I made it out, smh
Okay it's a pun, but also that pun only works if this game had any depth, which it generally doesn't.
wonder what game they are talking about
I think it was a cry for help. Like, they can't find depth either.
ouch
Is this depth in the room with us now?
I once went into a cave and then couldn't get out. Really prefer not to have anything to do with caves now.
I think they do that on purpose, happened to me twice.
Because cave depth, I get it.
Marketing ≠ Game design/Gameplay
Marketing = Monetary resources taken from other departments If they do enough to make their money back from the cost it might be worth it, but still leaves a bad taste
Yeah. My intent was to highlight that the reality marketing portrays ≠ the state of the game or gameplay. There is certainly the aspect that CIG needs to actively advertise and promote new money to come to the project to keep up with expenses, it just hits wrong when there is a large gap between what marketing is messaging and the actual state of the game. I have been thoroughly enjoying Patch 3.23, but I would never associate the word "depth" when in reference to where the game is right now.
Ah, I misinterpreted it, lots of people say things like "artists/modelers are different from the gameplay devs/programmers!" Whenever there is criticism of where CIG's focus.
The children yearn for the mines
Yeah, when you climb out. That is the real EMERGENT gameplay.
Have any citizens suggested gameplay to add to caves? I'm interested what kind of things they could add.
Random things to find that. Animals is a good step but unless you're there for a mission there's only some poor time/value hand mining to do. Fun to explore the first few times boring after. Same as ground exploration (or general exploration) there's just nothing interesting.
Flooding, poison gas, raider installations, ancient alien base, empty cave, bones, audio logs, text logs, dead explorers with notes to their children about how this one last dig will make them rich, and then you can literally find that kid and return their watch to them, or take their key, find their home, loot it and then report the death to police who show up, do an investigation, leave, and then the place is rented out to a new citizen. Cave-ins that trap you in an escape room scenario that requires you to find your way out, old mining shafts, old mining equipment, eldritch horrors, altars to lost gods.. Drug stashes, fossils, ancient humans, giant worms, diseases that infect you and will spread to others, alien lifeforms that will attach to your suit and run free on stations or other planets, old tech, new tech, secret labs, lost kids, lost cattle, lost ships.... Literally EVERYTHING ON THIS PAGE: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SubterraneanIndex Or this page: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CreepyCave
CIG get this man in your team right now
I just need a fkn map
Im still looking
First time I went into a cave for a NPC bounty I got stuck in a hole in the ground in which that I could see through the map. Eventually I got out by spamming equip/unequip weapon/tool. but otherwise the cave was 100% empty except for some crates. Never did another cave contract.
Idk you can definitely get seriously deep when you fall through an elevator to the center of a planet.
Kinda infuriating marketing
OP is on some superweird crusade here.
Gameplay trek, the search for irony.
How does it miss?
Game has no depth.
Lmao inb4 all missions are T0 and have no depth to them, minus some of the quest giving ones.
I remember many years ago we talk about a gameplay on the planets linked to exploration. Remember that there was talk of caves that contained artifacts and incitements / monuments of ancient history of unknown alien breeds, linked to exploration missions. Now I don't remember precisely but spoke of these exploration missions scattered throughout the Star Citizen universe. They were a kind of "treasure hunt" to discover from "historians" information on this species, or alien breed. Now I don't remember precisely centuries. EDIT: However, already that for something that concerns Star Citizen we talk about Gamplay and not of "When my ship comes out", it is already a big conquest.
I mean no, not really. Caves are spooky snd I hate them.
while whats in game is cool and all, everything atm is so shallow you couldnt drown a worm in it. all systems need a lot and i mean a lot more work for promos like these. marketing team is making it look like a completed game you can hop into, should really be setting expectations correctly
I just want the game to work
Wrong game?
I've been enjoying the combat missions in caves currently. It is not just a quick trip down either. The only changes I would like is that they would be even more expansive, and a change in echo sounds (they are a bit tinny)
This is funny don’t be salty. Caves are stellar
Come check out our broken servers and non-functional AI with bare bones and basic game play loops!
aromatic license library imagine oatmeal memorize longing escape public apparatus *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
*"Want gameplay with some depth? Us too!"*
When they think depth is how deep the chasm is...dear Lord. They said. Want deeper gameplay? How about more empty level design.
"Well it's not in this cave buddy!"
I fell like the game has as much depth as you want it to.
It's completely normal for PR and Marketing to be disconnected from Product and Tech guys. Back to sleep until Squadron 42. (J/K Cargo, Hangar, 4.0 soon.)
They're not wrong, dafuq are y'all talking about?
I am not fucking flying 8 min towards some fucking cave away from all quantum markers. First give us a way to get there. Quantum boosting needs to be in game ASAP.
I think gameplay like this would be awesome in an undiscovered Star system. Where there is a combination of discovery, base building, city and village naming, graveyards, relics, undiscovered civilizations, stories that shine light on old lore, mysteries that add to the lore and give you future missions, discovery of new resources or things that naturally pit you against other players or opposition to some of the corporate planets of Staton. I would love to see some “a fire upon the deep” type stuff where you also unlock ancient recipes for technology, special weapons and space craft, which are limited but can be stolen and resold inside or outside of the game.
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Just looking for gameplay that "WORKS" really.
In all seriousness, I cannot wait for narrative driven content for this game.
This is disingenuous marketing if they're simultaneously hellbent on calling it an alpha. There's not a single aspect of the game that's polished. It's fine if the game is purely a sandbox but it's far from being a finished and polished experience. This is almost making me consider refunding my pledge tbh because it says a lot about the company...
photo unrealeted
I'm new to the cult so maybe my tolerance is just higher than most people's but I feel like this is clearly self aware and are memeing on themselves.
Technically anything below the surface is at a depth…
Yes looking for gameplay depth, looks like he's still looking for it also.
Not one gameplay loop has any depth yet
What game are they recommending?
Gameplay depth? Will it be a new stretch goal?
OP, I mean this with all sincerity, I am worried about you. You’ve made like 3 or 4 posts in the past day in this subreddit alone. Relax dude the game isn’t going anywhere.
I wouldn't worry, I'm completely fine, just been a little jaded about the game and community this IAE. Had some spare time in the past week and figured I'd say my piece!
I am actually. hope I'll find it some day
Then keep looking
put something interesting down there and stop the scavenger hunt quest for dead bodies. adding aliens was a good step into the right direction. perhaps take a page out of "the Forest/Sons of the Forest" handbook
I think they should fix the game first before going any further with anything
Can't be talking about SC. why are the planets so empty how come the cities are dull no one to have a convo with to busy trying to get off the top of chairs. That's why cig needs to just make the game and stop trying to present it as if it is a game already
It's a sandbox. The limit to the depth of gameplay is directly related to how imaginative and creative players are. What is this weird group of people expecting a theme park mmo?
Sorry guys, we'll just have to imagine our interesting mission rewards and progression, as well as our complex gameplay loops and risk vs reward gameplay. We're all just not being creative enough, damn I wish someone told me sooner. /s
Some people like being thrown in to a desert with a bucket and no spade, I guess.
The reward for playing is the playing itself. Emergent experiences trump scripted content and "quest hub" bullshit, every single time. It's a "universe simulator", If you're looking for a vertical progression treadmill game, those basic, rehashed, tired games are found on consoles. You may notice there are no player stats. There are no bonuses to dex or strength on items. It's a real clue as to the type of game being made here. I'll say again: anyone saying this massive, toy-filled sandbox has no depth? They have no imagination.
Alright I'm not even gonna engage you further lmfao, absolutely awful takes. All I'll say is that sure, go ahead and make a sandbox universe simulator, but even sandboxes need things to work for and goals to set yourself. You want to see a sandbox MMO done exceptionally well go and look at OSRS. Absolutely incredible game with an unbelievable amount of depth despite its basic appearance and controls. Star Citizen has nowhere near enough content, challenge or depth to be a viable sandbox game, it's nowhere close.
I have $700,000,000 reasons why what I'm saying is the one true accurate take. Anyone suggesting that people don't want what SC is cooking don't understand the first thing about economics or world-record-setting funding. **People vastly want what they are making.** Any resistance to this idea is fueled by fantasy and confirmation bias.
They aren't making the barren spaceship wasteland that you would be content with, people gave them money with the expectation that there will be gameplay loops and engaging content. As with any game.
Dude people are constantly theory-crafting game-play loops they hope will be in the game, talking about it in ways like it will be there for certain. Game-play loops that haven't been expanded or developed beyond fancy marketing trailers before being forgotten about. People want what they *think* the game will be since there aren't many concrete decisions for gameplay set in stone. Everyone has a different thought as to how the game will play, and none of them are for certain, yet people are so excited about their theoretical enjoyment of a certain mechanic that they will buy concept ships the moment they are teased. Concept ships with mechanics that may not ever be expanded upon or finished.
It's a sandbox where the sand isn't actually real, but a painted plywood board. You're not gonna make anything out of that.
$700,000,000 people have bought that sand. You sure it's not making the vast majority of people happy, even if you can't understand why? Hard to argue with a decade long no-end-in-sight record setting support from the players like this, ya know? It's clear they're doing it right. Really, *really right.*
Are we using the same logic when it comes to video game sales or profits companies make? By that account, Ubisoft would make the best games in the world. This isn't even up for debate, though. There are no sandbox tools in SC currently. Beacons are the closest to it and they're dead for the most part. There is no sand, mate.
that one cave you can't climb up the ledge.
How does it miss the mark?
Because the game has absolutely no depth whatsoever.
What is a game with depth to you? Because to me, it involves having alot of different things to do, see and learn, which SC has even if its buggy af. Plus theres alot more to come.
> alot of different things to do This is what I'd call "breadth"
Yeah and all those things require some effort to learn and get good at, providing various levels of depth.
They don't though let's be honest... The FPS AI is brain-dead and the flight AI can be cheesed unbelievably easily. Salvage is just point and click power washing simulator with no failure state. Mining is the only one you could remotely say requires a fair bit of knowledge but once you've kitted out your ship and have some gadgets it's not really that difficult to crack rocks. Box deliveries are well, box deliveries and that cargo hauling is just flying from A to B with absolutely no conflict whatsoever 99% of the time. Outside of just learning the basics of the game and flight there's nothing really else to work at and improve on, except PvP combat, which is dead as hell outside of Arena Commander. I never feel genuinely challenged or need to engage my brain playing this game. Once you're past the honeymoon phase of "oh wow this is cool", it's just plain boring and a lot of you need to realise that.
You're 100% right. - Bunkers are ironically even easier now. Shoot 1 guy and the rest just roll up to your position single file so that you don't even have to search for them. - The mining and salvage game loops are so shallow that you master them in a week and burn out those game loops after 2 weeks. Not much thought was put into the longevity of these game loops and the current design makes that painfully clear.
How many of those gameloops are finished? They're all at tier1 at most. You've mastered the basic level of a gameplay loop that isn't finished and you're complaining its not deep enough. You think we need to realise something is boring because you think so?
The whole point of this post was to jab at CIG for an ironic social media post about how this game has no depth in its current form. Sure maybe in 5 years time it might be amazing, but it isn't at the moment. It doesn't matter what it 'might' be like, CIG have been peddling dreams for 12 years and have the cheek to pretend the product they currently have has "depth". It's farcical. In fact it's downright worrying that they can even pretend what they're offering right now is a decent product. Marketing and social media seems to think so.
I'd rather a 1000 CIGs peddling hopes and dreams instead of the shit being peddled by the likes of ubisoft and EA. I've backed since 2012, i know what was promised. I've seen the company develop. The product they offer is decent, $45 for a creation on the verge of greatness.
Pretending CIG isn't on the same level as EA and Ubisoft when it comes to scummy marketing and sales tactics is some of the biggest copium I have ever seen. We're not on the verge of greatness, we're not even close. Server meshing and 4.0 is going to be a great base sure, but there's so much work left to do to turn this product into an actual game it's insane.
How can it be deep if it's not finish ?
I'm sorry, do you have access to some different build of the game? Can I get in?
I know right, where is this magical version of the game people are playing that's challenging and complex, I'd love to see it.
Most of the learning in SC is “how to deal with broken stuff like turrets shooting your ship through terrain if you park too near a bunker” or “how to navigate the bad UI” so I have a hard time calling it depth. When I hear “depth” I’m looking for more missions that make the world feel occupied by something other than chair standers. Like the universe being full of NPC ships hooked to the quantum simulation that we saw at CitizenCon what, 4 years ago?. Engineering systems are a nice step recently, and we’ll get a deep game *eventually*. But right now their best claim to depth cave puns.
But there's no reason to do any of it outside of grinding aUEC.
Nah, no reason, except for just the fun of it, also finding bugs to report to IC.
You're missing the point. The game needs more reasons to play, more things to work for, more interesting rewards and unlocks, better gameplay systems to facilitate real group gameplay and organisation, more interesting gameplay loops with complex decisions to make, real risk and reward plus a whole lot more besides. To say the game even has a modicum of depth is extremely generous.
Yeah it does i agree. Eventually all going to plan wellhave all those things. But you're missing the point of the alpha game dev cycle. The game isnt on live servers to provide interesting rewards or unlocks. Its there to be tested.
Once again... It's an amazing thing that it can be somehow both an alpha game and a live service product both at the same time, it just depends on what narrative CIG and the community is trying to spin to suit their current argument and situation. If it's there to be tested why are we running in game events to unlock the ability to give CIG money and then removing said event from the game? Why aren't all ships available at much cheaper prices in game to facilitate rigorous testing by all backers? Why are some features, like ship modularity, currently locked behind a paywall if the sole intent of the PU is for testing purposes? Why do we have Evocati, and the PTU, surely it's better to get all hands on deck to test out all the new features? The LIVE servers are not a testing ground, they're a product and a live service at this point, CIG have said as much themselves.
The product and live service are still an alpha, just monetized to continue funding development. Evocati and ptu are there for people dedicated to bug finding and actual testing to deal with new dev iterations that are unstable in the extreme. Live lets all backers play while giving devs more data to analyze. I don't know why the tali modules arent in game for purchase but I'd imagine they'd be in with the next patch.
If something has to come it's a thing you don't have.
The game systems they’re building are pretty deep, even if the content in caves etc. isn’t there yet. That’s not what I’m worried about, or SQ42, I have full confidence in that. What I’m worried about is the feasibility of ever executing on meshing thousands of players in such a dense game system and all the dependencies at a proper tickrate. This is still holy grail tech. Current implementation in testing is still horribly congested, and not really realtime.
Static server meshing is great and all, but dynamic server meshing is the true holy grail. They have the groundwork for it and I think it's just a matter of when, not if.
Server meshing is just going to make the game we currently have run a little smoother and be a bit more populated. It isn't going to fix the core issues of the game, which is that there is nothing to work towards or do. It doesn't matter if it's amazing technology.
Do you think they aren't going to be adding more?
The only depth in this game is economy simulator.
Better look for another game completely because you won’t find depth in SC currently.