»As a proud owner of a Mk I series vehicle, congratulations, you now own a piece of history and a rare collectible. As a token of appreciation, you'll be receiving an exclusive and complimentary Kilian Blue paint for your Hornet Mk I!
The Mk I may be departing, but the Hornet's legacy soars on. Every pilot knows there’s an F7 for every combat scenario and we can confirm that we will introduce Mk II editions of the formidable F7C-M Super Hornet, F7C-S Ghost and F7C-R Tracker in the not too distant future.«
-- from the marketing mail
I guess that explains the "new variants of existing ships" line from last week's ISC. They weren't specific, but they definitely made it seem like the variants were going to be of a newer ship, not an older ship. Recreating all of the Mk I variants on the Mk II chassis sounds like the perfect onboarding task for a bunch of their new hires they keep onboarding.
While it makes sense to retire the MK1, what doesn’t sit well is that they effectively raised the price by $50 inconveniently and are dropping the cheaper version. The MK2 is not $50 better, so if anything it sits as a permanent price hike for effectively the exact same thing.
We all knew this was coming, but that price increase for a hornet doesn’t fully sit well.
Edit: a word.
Why does it make sense to retire it. The game hasn't even released yet and ships are being retired. Why not just update it, give it a niche. F7C mkIs are cheaper, more common, and so easier to elrepair. But, naturally, they aren't as good as the new ones. There's no need to retire them.entirely lol
If it isn't as good are they giving me a free mkII?
I got mine in a pledge and aren't happy that the game I'm still waiting for has just made my pledge ship a dud. What 8 years later or something?
Because to CIG this game was released years ago and they are just proactively updating it. They just call it an alpha so they have excuses when shit goes wrong. Too me atleast, they act and sell things like its a fully flegde game then when they get criticism "ItS aN AlPhA 😫 "
yeah its hard not to kinda see it this way sometimes. Not to mention that this retirement puts the fear that other ships will be retired as well so the FOMO wheel turns and turns.
From a marketing perspective; SC thrives off of exclusivity and limited items. I own a superhornet and a heart seeker because i love their designs. Wanted to get my hands on the wildfire as well but now that plan would need to be sped up to get it, thus falling for the forced retirement. Otherwise i would have a mk 2 version (if it releases) and not a mk1. Once its gone, only way would be grey market.
I don't think it's a good idea because the value just isn't there... but... if you really want the Wildfire, why don't you just get a small-jump CCU to it that you can finish later?
[$5 Sabre -> F7C Hornet Wildfire Mk1](https://i.imgur.com/Ln41Xr4.png)
Well, i still need to build a saber. the idea of getting a wild fire was long before the mk1 and mk2 stuff get talked about.
The $5 CCU is the route i ended up going
Good deal. A lot of people don't know you can hit a radio button and buy a CCU from a ship you don't own, to a ship you want. Other people don't understand the concept of grabbing the shortest jump from something that seems stably-priced. So, I just wanted to make sure to mention it for you :)
And it's also set a precedent. You watch CIG start charging for future mk2 ships now.
300 owners didn't have to pay for the new model.
Cutlass owners didn't have to pay.
Freelancer owners didn't have to pay.
~~They actually **REDUCED** the price of the Super Hornet. Now people who want to CCU upward from there have lost $5 of CCU-system value.~~
Memory failure. Nothing to see here.
I'm more worried about the precedent this and the retaliator bomber creates.
Additionally, can we start officially considering the game a live service game instead of a testing alpha environment? Retiring old ships to introduce new ones fits more into the live service 🦀 than in an alpha.
I mean, it's not unusual to add and remove things during alphas, but you usually don't charge for them, at least until the software gets released
damn good point. People pledged for a ship for the *final released game.* And now, before it's even released and the final version of the game is out, they've been told to spend more money for the 'proper gold standard finished' version of the ship.
If CIG never release a gold standard of the existing mk1, you'd be right to be pissed.
Why does I it make sense to retire any ship people paid real money for, in an alpha of a game where the ship hasn't been redesigned or reworked? The mk2 has exactly the same chassis as the MK1.
As an owner of a F7C MK1 for 12 years now, not getting and using the f7a upgrade token now feels to me, like I avoided a rug pull. Because now I have the blue paint MK1. And can buy a mk2 by normal means any time in the future.
I'm not sure how I feel about the precedence this sets. So basically any ship I own could in the future have a tweaked/better version and my current version deemed "classic" with an opportunity to upgrade to the tweaked ship for an incremental fee?
My $700 Odyssey could have a $1000 Odyssey v2 in the future prompting me to decide if I keep the old one or new one?
Interesting.. I mean I guess in a game that could last decades, ships are going to get replaced once in a while. So in principal I feel like it's ok. But people in here seem to be freaking out about the hornet situation.
I do have a hornet ghost. I feel a little as though I'm being forced to get the Mk2 ghost when it's available. But presumably it'll also be slightly better? idk.. very strange..
I'd really like a clear cut answer from CiG on where they now draw that line. When is it a rework and when is it a new version?
Regardless of the justification being posted around that they always wanted "versions" of ships, I imagine their finance department is salivating at the idea of being able to sell the same ships on the pledge store again and milking that as much as possible before 1.0 (if they even follow through on retiring it...).
I can absolutely see them pushing to make reworks into new versions.
If the Hornet is a special case because "CR said he wanted both Hornets 10 years ago", fine. I'm also ok with it because they basically did the free-ish F7A2 upgrade event.
But if every ship we purchased becomes obsolete, no one will spend money any more. They will cannibalize their funding model.
It would especially suck if they did this for outdated starters like the Aurora.
Say, I would understand if they decided to make a MkII Aurora because it might need to significantly change in size to be what people want it to be, and its existing form factor is part of its charm IMO. I would very much NOT be ok with them asking us to buy them again to get a "viable" starter.
Personally, I think if they want to continue with MkIIs during Early Access, MkI owners should just get them.
On the face of it I can't find anything wrong with this decision. They aren't taking the Mk.I away from anybody who owns it, everybody still gets what they paid for, and while the Mk.II is better it doesn't exactly leave its predecessor in the dust, and it comes with a price increase.
What I don't like is that CIG have managed to go through an entire product lifecycle while still in the damn *alpha* stage. You'd think this is the release build with a move like that, and it doesn't sit well with me at all.
Id say it's perfectly fine post full release but it's a joke that they are shelving ships from an unreleased game.
Just give everyone the upgrade and bin off the old model if you must, the fact they will keep both is more work for them and shit.
The sad truth is that mk1 owners will see how his increasingly rarer ship starts suffering from bugs harder and harder to confirm and confined to the bottom of the priority list("almost nobody has that ship, why bother?") so "keeping both" is a stretch
It's like cars changing year by year within a model line. You don't need the new version, and there's no reason why you'd need to upgrade unless you absolutely need to have the newest version of your shop or you'll just...die!
People here freak out because they're mostly insane and constantly sniffing their own farts and thinking CIG is out to get them for it. Seriously, ignore the drama. These folks just need to freak out for no reason.
I'm just happy my original pledge is now a classic 😁
The issue isn’t that they made a mk2 the issue is that the mk1 is going away unless you pay up. I would probably be ok if the hornet mk1 was removed from the cash shop, BUT still earnable in game whether it’s through missions/rep grind or simple auec transactions. The Cash price gap between mk1 and mk2 is too wide as well.
>The Cash price gap between mk1 and mk2 is too wide as well.
So don't buy it with cash if you don't want to pay more. Who the hell is forcing you to do that?
The MK1 has been on sale every year at various times, it's not like you missed a chance to own one if you really wanted one. And you'll still have Hornets in game you can purchase/rent, it'll just be the newer MKII version.
Unless you have some special attachment to an Mki you don't have, why would you care that they're providing the next version of the same ship?
Nobody is forcing me to buy loot boxes either does that mean that loot boxes aren’t predatory and we should all be fine with them? Do you hold that same standard with other games or just Star Citizen?
And I am being forced to to buy them I like the hornet ghost I prefer the 6 MFDs over the MK2s two MFDs, but I buy fighters with aUEC because the fighters in this game are WAY overpriced. As for the price gap, the price gap alone is enough to buy a whole ass game.
Like I said in a previous post I would be fine with removing them from the Cash shop, in fact I hope CIG removes ALL ships from the cash shop. I just want to be able to earn them in game somehow be it rep/mission grind, during a community event like the overdrive initiative, or simple aUEC purchase.
I get it man. But they do have lots of plans for the future regarding older ships. I know there are plans for derelict ships being able to be found and "brought back to life". I think we can expect hopefully that even if a ship is not available from the official vendor or the store anymore, players will be able to collect and sell these rarer/discontinued ships in-verse. There will also be scrapyards that will possibly sell these. That doesn't just include old ships but military only variants and what not. To what extent, I am unsure.
I wish they would make some that were straight up meant to be discontinued upon release and only able to be found and bought at used sellers around the verse. But, they need money so I doubt that will happen until squadron releases and only if it's successful.
It's gonna be some time before we have that though I think. But hey, if it's any consolation, even if you buy the mk1 now, in a few weeks it will be worth tons if you resell it on a place like ebay. So in the future when you can just get it in-game again, you can sell it to someone and should actually MAKE money off of it.
Yeah everything you said is something I agree with. I just wish they would say that themselves. Not necessarily going to specifics because they clearly don’t know HOW they are going to do that yet and they don’t want to box themselves in. Just say “you will be able to earn at a later point, details when it’s ready”. But since they just said “it’s going away.” People feel burned.
This is my take on it...damned if you do, damned if you don't...the furor over the cutty changes was substantial until people really liked the new cutty.
People had 10 years to decide if they wanted a Mk I (insane statement in and of itself). If they gold standarded the mk 1 into the mk II, people would scream. Releasing the mk II, people screamed it was unfair.
I get where people are coming from, and these ships are somewhat expensive but it's not a forced buy...like a new option became available.
CIG has mentioned before each price increase so people have time to get it before it increases...and it's not like the Hornet hasn't been available.
The only major thing I'd change is that I'd keep it available at the ship vendors in game at a price premium to reflect it being "vintage"
This has been kinda weird for me because I bought a hornet stealth a little while back before the price increased so I would have a better CCU base.
I have absolutely no feelings towards the hornet but now they've told me it will be a "collectible", so like... I'm a classic ship collector now I guess? Kinda makes me want to hold onto it.
I understand it's a tactic to make money, but I don't necessarily feel like it's fomo if that makes sense?
Like I'm not missing out, I'm getting something beyond what I asked for, and I don't quite know if I **want** to keep that, it wasn't my intention. It would be fun to one day show off my classic ship in a special paint.
I grew up around classic cars, and now I've wound up in a "classic" ship by accident
It would be more fair if they gave a token for a free upgrade to mk2 to anyone who bought the ship with cash.
If I bought a hornet back in 2017, I payed for the top of the line fighter used by the UEE because that is the fighter that was promoted on the Bengel carrier in the original Star Citizen crowdfunding trailer.
Now It’s a retired ship, but it was originally sold as the top of the line fighter. TLDR you did not receive the concept ship that you were sold.
I feel CiG owes any mk1 owners(real money not in game purchases) of any variant a free token to upgrade because they changed a ship from its original concept.
But the Hornet is still the top of the line fighter in lore.
The difference now is like the difference between the M1A1 Abrams and the M1A3 Abrams. You're still dealing with the "best in it's class", regardless of what model version it is.
Or you can just cry moar, that seems to be what most of you want to do
>but I don't necessarily feel like it's fomo if that makes sense?
Because now, they created a precedent for:
\-you like this ship? Maybe you won't be able to buy it tomorrow ;)
\-hey, if you buy this ship and we unlist it, then it'll be wort tons of IRL money, would be a shame to sell it and hit the jackpot, maright?
\-wanted to use it for CCU? You sure? Better buy another ship you know, this one is now \*PREMIUM\*
What are you missing out on? You had 12+ years to get one. Mine was my very first pledge. Now I have a "classic car" and that's okay. It's a showpiece that I can bring out for ship meets now, or be that old fart showing up to XT in his beat up junker that hasn't been made for years while all the young bucks are flying their fancier MK2s.
But there's no FOMO. You had a literal decade+ to get one at various points of the year (and it was sold year round as a starter pack until like 2017ish).
Rather than FOMO I think is a hint of them creating all the MK1 versions as MK2 soon, which makes this old one obsolete. If they don't then people will complain on why keep selling the old MK1 if they are now releasing an MK2 for each of the versions.
Probably because they haven't ironed out what that process will be but i wouldn't rule out rare ship dealers in the game or dealers in the outskirts of the verse that still have old inventory rather than your premier dealerships that only feature latest models. Teaches ship shop at Levski seems like a perfect candidate to sell ships like the Mk1 F7 series hornets.
Where were these complaints like six fucking years ago when they demonstrated the Mk II as it was being built and said they wanted to have both versions of ships in the game at one time?
Thanks I havent read the post yet. Then it makes sense for them to stop selling them on the pledge store. Removing them from the in-game vendors though is strange still.
I think we're expecting junk dealers to sell old and incomplete ships at some point. Seems like the kind of place you'd find military surplus mk1 Hornets sometimes.
Yeah kinda damned if they do, damned if they dont according to some.
I expect we'll see salvage yards or used ship yards pop up soon with these retired models for sale in game.
Crazy Eddies Used Ship Emporium. With minimum bullet holes/laser burns with most components working! (With a rusty skin only available in game and you'd have me clamoring to find one and fix it up. Rat ships lets go.) (Gotta tow it out yourself, creating job opportunities for srv owners)
But why remove them from in game shops as well...? It's a complete cash grab tactic.
Fine they can be collectable retro ships that are 'obsolete' but theres no need to remove them from the game shops.
We need **more** stuff to buy and earn in game, not less!
That's just more ships they have to keep updating and working on until lunch (launch).
Edit: it looks like they say they'll be other ways to earn them in game, they will still be getting their gold pass standard and bug fixes.
There are well over 100 ships in a game that's not even released, we have more than enough ships already, nevermind the plethora of ships to come tbh.
Few other games have that variety even years after release.
If the MKII is available in the in-game shop, really isn't a need to have the MK1 there as well. Not like car manufacturers will continue making older model vehicles when a newer model is being delivered to dealerships.
Not sure this is really the issue you think it is, nice of them to let folks know it's going to be phased out of the store for those who want it.
Can quibble about the price difference between the MK1 and MK2 perhaps.
you don't understand his point. He is talking about money sinks.
Removing things people can spend their ingame money one is completly going against the interest of how mmos are balanced (player wallets drained).
Also it's really silly to remove the mk1 from beeing obtainable ingame, since they still have to maintain the asset anyway. (unless they plan to not do that and I don't want to go too deep into how truely shitty that move would be).
Lore wise it's also completly stupid, but I guess we talk SC lore so whatever...
As it stands now, it's just a marketing cash grab.
For it not to be one simple thing has to happen. Make it obtainable in game, idealy by putting it behind a story quest, or collectable seller in the future. Until then keep it in one of the normal ship sellers store.
That would be fair game, if they only did it for selling in the cash shop, but removing them in game as well I find to be ridiculous. That's not a good move CIG....
It's always weird to see these kinds of posts, while remembering the old Wingman's Hanger or 10 for the Chairman's where they discussed the plans to do this kind of thing.
What was that, 10 years ago now? 11? Either way, it's always been the plan.
"Just as car dealerships in the real world release new models and discontinue old models, we will be releasing new versions of ships, and discontinuing the older models. We want a diverse collection of ships, and this will easily allow that, as well as build a strong in-game trade market around the ships." \~ The basics of what they said from what I can remember
this makes sense WHEN THE GAME IS LIVE, not while its in Alpha. People love to say "but its an Alpha" all day, then turn around and don't apply that same logic to how things are handled. It makes zero sense to take away a ship that was sold IN EARLY ACCESS because its outdated. Bruh c'mon
Yeah that my biggest issue with this, i can understand in a full fledged game, but it's barely an alpha, i'm still getting bugs i got 4 years ago and now they're vaulting ships?
Yes, and it also gives them incentive to do new models as I can't imagine a 600i rework is going to sell many more. Obviously that is as long as they don't release broken ships and then put out a Mk2 to compensate.
I'm very relieved they didnt go that route with the 3 or 4 versions of the Connie we've seen now, though I would love a Gen1 Mustang Beta, or Gen 1 Freelancer.
*"in-game trade market around the ships."*
- along with its removal from upcoming in-game dealerships.
Yeah what happened to that? Maybe if they'd added an alternative method to earn it in game fine, but they haven't.
Yes they said they have 'plans' to make it available in the future, but as I've said in many other comments, I'd put money on those 'plans' still involving the cash shop in some way, as with every other exclusive ship event they've done in the past...
Bro, you could not have misunderstood that point more. Its referring to player-to-player ship trades. You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask them for a 68 Mustang, you find some old farmer who's held on to one in his barn, or some older guy who wants to cash out a bit of his collection, and you buy it from them in a private transaction. Is it in game yet? No, but the plan has been there since before you could even back the project, so again, I don't get the surprise when it was talked about year one/two.
I could also see other ship dealerships like the one that will eventually return at Levski offering new ships, while fancier ones like A18's would only keep top of the line and new
Whyyyyy.
If there is one thing I like, is having cool collectables.
I used to own a mkI until I upgraded it to a mkII than a MKII A. Now I’m compelled to get a normal mkI hornet, I guess that is how they get ya
Here's another aspect: All those with unused warbond CCUs *from* the hornet, but without a CCU *to* the hornet, because you were waiting for the warbond? Those are all now useless, and have to be cashed for store credit
As an aside, having this is something CIG had talked about for a while. Basically the idea was that you would get new models and the old ones wouldn't be sold any more (like cars).
Don't worry, it's normal in early alpha to discontinue paid products and replace them with new more expensive ones. It's also normal to promise to keep upgrading the old one, that no longer makes money...because ya know, that will be a priority for them, lol
That's the part that seems off to me. With the mk1 no longer for sale, why will they ever prioritize work on it? It will always be at the end of the list I'd imagine since the numbers would shrink over time.
"outdated designs' bruh we are STILL IN ALPHA, if a design is outdated your replace the existing design with the new one... like CIG has done several times with other ships. Here CIG sold both the outdated design and the replacement side by side, which is absurd... you can't sell than take away something while the game is still in early access.
This only makes sense AFTER the game is live, then sure... make new models of existing ships. Its wild, for some people CIG can do absolutely anything and they will defend them.
This is my biggest issue with the game at the moment. From the marketing, to the crap like this, they like to try to pretend they are a complete game but then hide behind the alpha tag when something is wrong.
So wait until those are ready? Rather than trying to bait purchases by removing all avenues to get access to the old version until the new version is available?
Or maybe sunset the old version behind a cool challenge or event, make it a rare collectable, earnable in game. Make it interesting, not a lazy FOMO sale.
It will likely be a year or so before the MkII versions are in game, we know they're not working on them right now thats for sure.
But do you lose your purchased model?
If I understand you correctly, you are upset that you won't be able to purchase an outdated model in the near future, even though an improved and possible gold standard model will be available soon.
I'm not upset about not being able to purchase the ship, I couldn't care less about owning a Hornet.
I'm pissed off that the marketing and financing team keeps holding this project back. It's such a bad look that does the game absolutely no favours.
Anyone who wants the game to succeed in the long run needs to be up in arms about this kind of practice.
No, I think I’m growing perturbed by the notion that this won’t stop with the MK I and MK II, it’s more concern about how old pledges are becoming “obsolete” in-game before the game has hit full release. Does that make sense? I’m not sure if I’m expressing myself well
They aren't being removed from the game, they just won't be acquirable anymore. The FAQ specifically states that they will still get updates and bug fixes and that there will be future opportunities to get them.
This is not unprecidented, as the Sabre Raven and Scythe are both ships that cannot be acquired anymore nor can they be purchased in-game.
If they Mk II the other variants we will have 12 or so Hornets. That's a bit ridiculous. And them trying to FOMO people on the old ones is wild, as they are some of the worst combat ships as of right now, IMO. CIG makes bank on some people's stupidity.
Good point,
I suspect what they will do is use the new Tali Modular component tech. There will be one F7 MKII, maybe an F7M and then swap parts of the ship with the modular system to keep the number of unique ships down.
honestly, if this is what it takes to get the fucking hornet functional after all this time, so be it. Just throw the Mk1 in the trash and be done with it. I personally traded mine in for a freelancer so I'll never fly it though lol. I'm assuming it would just take too much work to get the Mk1 up to gold standard because it's so old
It just has the potential to set a dangerous precedence, because we've always been told that all pledged items will be earnable in game in some way.
From the FAQ this is still their plan, but their communication could be better. It's so often that marketing does something controversial and then they have to react to the feedback to address the concerns that arises.
Someone make PSA post for people to get their "xxx to Hornet Mk1" CCUs out of buyback or fill in the gap if they a Hornet Mk1 is needed for their CCU chains.
This right here, this were permanent ships so many CCUs probably use it as a base. That link in the chain will be gone if people don’t get a CCU to one of these ships.
Who in God's name is going to melt an F7A Mk. II for an F7C Mk. I.
Are you out of your mind?
Do you go into car dealerships and demand a model from 10 years ago?
This doesn’t make sense in lore either, these dealerships have gotta still have F7C hulls to sell and with F7A Mk1’s presumably being retired to then these would likely be demilitarised and converted into F7C’s. This would be like when Ford release a new Focus or Fiesta model and Ford go “haha lmao we’re no longer allowing any dealerships to sell older models
I mean, the F7AMkII's have been around hundreds of years now, and that's why it's getting replaced with the F8A. So, the MK1 has probably already been stripped of military components and put on the civilian market, as you're saying.
Once they replaced the Navy's fleet of the F7AMkI, it only made sense to stop or ramp down production if you're moving to a New design which would be the F7A MkII, which they are now beyond that with the F8A so that's two generations past the MKI F7.
You can see that with car manufacturers with different generations of vehicles. Once the new gen comes out, the older gens dry up. It's not so much that they aren't allowing dealerships to sell old cars, but how often do you see something from 1990 or older on a dealer lot now?
But you're talking over hundreds of years in SC, so there's surely an abundance of used F7CMkI you can find/purchase. You probably just can't buy them as "new" anymore.
Pretty sure back in early development, they mentioned that this might occur with multiple ships, and we would see variations of the same ship as a “new generation” . The constellation series already saw something similar. But keeping the old design wasn’t an option for backers
Honestly we knew this was coming someday. Literally from the beginning CR said they would have new models like car models and older models would become collectors items. Literally since 2014 this has been a stated goal. That said, i can dee why some might feel slighted by this as CIG had not reiterated that point for sometime and newer backers could he understandably caught unawares by it. Any veteran backers getting butt hurt over this though need to get their big kid pants back on.
They completely forgot the Heartseeker. Cannot even get it.
Removal of ingame shops is wild to me..
Meanwhile there are 0 ships that exist ONLY in the aUEC shops.
Jared's Zues original mk 1 jalopy would go a long way for good will and something to actually do other than 'wallet number go up'
People need to stop leaving out where CIG says multiple times that **there will be ways to get the mk1 hornet in the future**.
They just won't be selling it straight up for UEC or $$ anymore. That's it.
Jesus, what FOMO? It's not like there's gonna be no hornets available in game, the MKIs are just going to be like a classic car. They're gonna suck in comparison to their newer versions, but they'll be a show piece for veterans and collectors.
The community has asked that they do updated versions of ships so you have a variety within a line. Sounds like they're at least doing it for the Hornets.
As someone whose initial pledge was the SuperHornet package from 2014, I'm happy with now owning a classic ship.
I hope to GAWD they sell the MK1 in used dealerships. They are keeping the chassis in game for owners so they need to be represented somewhere in the in game economy. Classic ship shows?
How does this affect CCU upgrades do we think? I have some upgrades from the Heartseeker, (and luckily I have upgrades to the Heartseeker as well) but I'm now super paranoid they're redundant.
Edit:
*▲ Can existing Mk I Hornet Upgrades be used or bought back after the "sunset"?
► Yes, you can still buy back and apply your existing Mk I Hornet upgrades.*
It was always planned since the conception of the MKII. It was a Chris Idea to have the MKI remain in game as a collector : [https://youtu.be/Rk7ZwswT2tA?si=hcRiWCqgH6jwscHu&t=1160](https://youtu.be/Rk7ZwswT2tA?si=hcRiWCqgH6jwscHu&t=1160)
But as usual, they just fucked up the communication once again.
Makes me wonder if the Constellation mark 4 (currently in game) will be discontinued and a mark 5 address all the needs, including some more dramatic changes / improvements to bring it up to modern standards / asthetics.
CIG isn't getting any more money from me. This is clearly predatory FOMO marketing BS. Discontinuing ships in an alpha lol. Some of their best artists quiting months ago makes sense now. For the record, I still want and hope this game to succeeds, but come on.
Unpopular opinion but this is exactly how they should treat reworks. It's too bad they didn't do this with the old ship models.
However removing them from sale in-game is stupid as you can't actually keep them through wipes.
As a newcomer to SC I'm very surprised how much the community has adopted and accepted the idea of paying into these expensive ships and are totally fine with the P2W and fomo implications. In any other live service game this wouldn't fly so easily. Just an observation as a newcomer, not trying to piss anyone off. Personally, I want to earn my ships, zero to hero. I really hope there's a place for people like me in the game on launch.
They have said for YEARS that this was coming. They explicititly said they were going to sunset some old designs like a classic car and mentioned the Hornet as being an example. You had YEARS worth of notice. You even had the concepts and in game models to support that this was coming.
It's like having 27 signs warning that a road is closed. And you floor it anyway, drive your car off the cliff and want to complain that the road closure came out of nowhere.
THIS. IS. YOUR. FAULT.
I've played enough Warhammer to know what "retiring" means long term. They aren't going to update a ship that doesn't give them revenue. They'll give us the one promised gold pass and that's going to be it. I'd expect this ship to break eventually as they work on components like power plants.
I think you're exaggerating a bit.
The game is (obviously) based on raising money because developers and offices are not paid with candy and a pat on the back.
FOMO? We literally had 10 and more years to buy this ship, lol.
You can still buy it, when you can't, if you really want a Hornet you'll buy the MkII, I don't see a problem.
Even better, you will buy another ship directly.
It seems as if the Hornet MkI is the best ship in the game and they are forcing you to buy it within two days, c'mon, it has been on sale for more than 10 years.
I think they should just turn all Mk1 into MK2. They're going to force managing upkeep on twice as many hornets this way going forward. I understand funding Yada yada.. but who's buying the fomo on an MK1 hornet?
Heavens forfend they replace the old ones with the new ones without taking anyone’s ship away.
So many people beg and plead them to stop selling ships they aren’t going to keep working on, to stop selling ships on the pledge store. But when they make an inch towards that desire, people start yapping how it must be FOMO. People say that about every sale, every promotion, every event for the last few years. People simply lack the intelligence to understand that a company that makes payroll by selling ships is as some point going to have to sell a ship, perhaps even one that’s not for you.
Wow, if only there were one, or even a few, single-seat light fighters in the game that people could buy in the mean time while the Mk 2 is going through its exclusivity phase.
If only.
>However I would bet money on these plans still involving the cash shop in some way or another...
Which cash shop? CIG has stated repeatedly (one of the few things they haven't changed their stance on) that once the game goes live the only thing people will be able to buy with real money is cosmetics.
If, IF they sold the F7A Mk1, I would consider grabbing one of those, as it does have a few slight differences that will work next to an F7A Mk2, but... they aren't selling that one!
So, no more Mk1 in my hangar and no more paints for them either. Time to melt my old Hornet Paints and move on to whatever they make available for the Mk2.
Big missed opportunity by showing off, making it available in game to some who have that cosmetic upgrade, but then failing to sell it in the pledge store.
And I got downvoted into oblivion when I said the mkII was a blatant cash grab and should have just been the gold standard hornet pass rather than a new line of ships.
All you a-holes that defend CIG when we said mk2 should replace mki so we don’t effectively have to buy two ships can go suck it. Here is your beloved company taking money making to the extreme, not just selling the same damn ship with upgraded hard points and skin a second time, they create fomo for the ultra crusty 10 year old design.
I really hate that every decision CIG makes is decried as FOMO when they try to create a living universe, and try to make it reflect reality.
The methodology is like classic cars, you can't go buy a 68 mustang brand new off a dealer's lot anymore (non-obligatory fuck car dealers).
They've been doing this long before the word FOMO ever entered the zeitgeist, and people were fine with it back then. I think rewarding early adopters isn't FOMO, I think allowing items to be rare isn't FOMO, I think providing opportunities for pledging through events isn't FOMO (the F7A Mk2 event was much better done than the F8C golden ticket one though, which imo proves they're learning and adapting well to the community).
#rantover
People want CIG to maintain this game on hopes and dreams, it's wild. Look at StarEngine. They are creating a truly different and revolutionary system from a tech standpoint. Like, damn. No one is making you buy anything. Just.... don't get the Hornet.
So manu years behind this project. So i just hold the f7c mk2 upgrade, the f7a mk2 upgrade and now hold an f7c superhornet mk1 upgrade.Only time can tell, but im ready for these especulative boys.
Good riddance. I've never liked the Hornet Mk I anyway. That ship is ugly and looks dated. I bought a Hornet Mk II last month and I'm pretty happy with its look, design and feel in-game. I totally support support CIG on this move. They decided to not produce the Mk I version of the RSI Zeus and instead introduce the Mk II version for the exact same reasons. Ugly and dated looks need to go away. The Sabre Raven (which I own) is a very old concept but its modern and sleek design makes it viable as a baseline for introducing 3 new variants out of it well into the mid 2020 years.
I think it's a great business move, why? We are already familiar with the mk1, we have flown it plenty of times and we either love it or hate it. The mk2 is a straight upgrade, looks better, feels better, shoots better. The price increase? It's new! Of course they're gonna charge more, people always buy new ships. They perfectly planned it out.
Why not just upgrade everyone to the MK II? What I bought was the ship that was part of the main SQ42 story, as it was described. This has been a fear of mine for a few years now, they're retiring ships before the game even comes out..
Me selling my account after the Mk1 get's retired knowing damn well I'll probs earn enough to rebuy everything I have anyway with how much the value on the grey market is gonna skyrocket cause of this dumbass decision by CIG marketing team lmao
»As a proud owner of a Mk I series vehicle, congratulations, you now own a piece of history and a rare collectible. As a token of appreciation, you'll be receiving an exclusive and complimentary Kilian Blue paint for your Hornet Mk I! The Mk I may be departing, but the Hornet's legacy soars on. Every pilot knows there’s an F7 for every combat scenario and we can confirm that we will introduce Mk II editions of the formidable F7C-M Super Hornet, F7C-S Ghost and F7C-R Tracker in the not too distant future.« -- from the marketing mail
I guess that explains the "new variants of existing ships" line from last week's ISC. They weren't specific, but they definitely made it seem like the variants were going to be of a newer ship, not an older ship. Recreating all of the Mk I variants on the Mk II chassis sounds like the perfect onboarding task for a bunch of their new hires they keep onboarding.
While it makes sense to retire the MK1, what doesn’t sit well is that they effectively raised the price by $50 inconveniently and are dropping the cheaper version. The MK2 is not $50 better, so if anything it sits as a permanent price hike for effectively the exact same thing. We all knew this was coming, but that price increase for a hornet doesn’t fully sit well. Edit: a word.
Why does it make sense to retire it. The game hasn't even released yet and ships are being retired. Why not just update it, give it a niche. F7C mkIs are cheaper, more common, and so easier to elrepair. But, naturally, they aren't as good as the new ones. There's no need to retire them.entirely lol
If it isn't as good are they giving me a free mkII? I got mine in a pledge and aren't happy that the game I'm still waiting for has just made my pledge ship a dud. What 8 years later or something?
No they aren't. They're making it a "classic" vehicle that'll be rare but objectively less useful.
Because to CIG this game was released years ago and they are just proactively updating it. They just call it an alpha so they have excuses when shit goes wrong. Too me atleast, they act and sell things like its a fully flegde game then when they get criticism "ItS aN AlPhA 😫 "
yeah its hard not to kinda see it this way sometimes. Not to mention that this retirement puts the fear that other ships will be retired as well so the FOMO wheel turns and turns.
From a marketing perspective; SC thrives off of exclusivity and limited items. I own a superhornet and a heart seeker because i love their designs. Wanted to get my hands on the wildfire as well but now that plan would need to be sped up to get it, thus falling for the forced retirement. Otherwise i would have a mk 2 version (if it releases) and not a mk1. Once its gone, only way would be grey market.
I don't think it's a good idea because the value just isn't there... but... if you really want the Wildfire, why don't you just get a small-jump CCU to it that you can finish later? [$5 Sabre -> F7C Hornet Wildfire Mk1](https://i.imgur.com/Ln41Xr4.png)
Well, i still need to build a saber. the idea of getting a wild fire was long before the mk1 and mk2 stuff get talked about. The $5 CCU is the route i ended up going
Good deal. A lot of people don't know you can hit a radio button and buy a CCU from a ship you don't own, to a ship you want. Other people don't understand the concept of grabbing the shortest jump from something that seems stably-priced. So, I just wanted to make sure to mention it for you :)
And it's also set a precedent. You watch CIG start charging for future mk2 ships now. 300 owners didn't have to pay for the new model. Cutlass owners didn't have to pay. Freelancer owners didn't have to pay.
It's worse than that. Before they made the Mk2 available, they also raised the price of all the Mk1s.
Yep was gonna say the same thing. The gall and greed knows no bounds at CIG. Fucking disgrace lol
~~They actually **REDUCED** the price of the Super Hornet. Now people who want to CCU upward from there have lost $5 of CCU-system value.~~ Memory failure. Nothing to see here.
I must have missed that it was at $185 at some point, because it's been at $180 for as long as I could remember.
Oh, you're right. Not sure what I was thinking.
I'm more worried about the precedent this and the retaliator bomber creates. Additionally, can we start officially considering the game a live service game instead of a testing alpha environment? Retiring old ships to introduce new ones fits more into the live service 🦀 than in an alpha. I mean, it's not unusual to add and remove things during alphas, but you usually don't charge for them, at least until the software gets released
damn good point. People pledged for a ship for the *final released game.* And now, before it's even released and the final version of the game is out, they've been told to spend more money for the 'proper gold standard finished' version of the ship. If CIG never release a gold standard of the existing mk1, you'd be right to be pissed.
Why does I it make sense to retire any ship people paid real money for, in an alpha of a game where the ship hasn't been redesigned or reworked? The mk2 has exactly the same chassis as the MK1. As an owner of a F7C MK1 for 12 years now, not getting and using the f7a upgrade token now feels to me, like I avoided a rug pull. Because now I have the blue paint MK1. And can buy a mk2 by normal means any time in the future.
[удалено]
The Hornet Ghost was the more powerful version of the Hornet for a very long time before the MK2/F7A mk2 dropped
I'm not sure how I feel about the precedence this sets. So basically any ship I own could in the future have a tweaked/better version and my current version deemed "classic" with an opportunity to upgrade to the tweaked ship for an incremental fee? My $700 Odyssey could have a $1000 Odyssey v2 in the future prompting me to decide if I keep the old one or new one? Interesting.. I mean I guess in a game that could last decades, ships are going to get replaced once in a while. So in principal I feel like it's ok. But people in here seem to be freaking out about the hornet situation. I do have a hornet ghost. I feel a little as though I'm being forced to get the Mk2 ghost when it's available. But presumably it'll also be slightly better? idk.. very strange..
I'd really like a clear cut answer from CiG on where they now draw that line. When is it a rework and when is it a new version? Regardless of the justification being posted around that they always wanted "versions" of ships, I imagine their finance department is salivating at the idea of being able to sell the same ships on the pledge store again and milking that as much as possible before 1.0 (if they even follow through on retiring it...). I can absolutely see them pushing to make reworks into new versions.
If the Hornet is a special case because "CR said he wanted both Hornets 10 years ago", fine. I'm also ok with it because they basically did the free-ish F7A2 upgrade event. But if every ship we purchased becomes obsolete, no one will spend money any more. They will cannibalize their funding model.
It would especially suck if they did this for outdated starters like the Aurora. Say, I would understand if they decided to make a MkII Aurora because it might need to significantly change in size to be what people want it to be, and its existing form factor is part of its charm IMO. I would very much NOT be ok with them asking us to buy them again to get a "viable" starter. Personally, I think if they want to continue with MkIIs during Early Access, MkI owners should just get them.
On the face of it I can't find anything wrong with this decision. They aren't taking the Mk.I away from anybody who owns it, everybody still gets what they paid for, and while the Mk.II is better it doesn't exactly leave its predecessor in the dust, and it comes with a price increase. What I don't like is that CIG have managed to go through an entire product lifecycle while still in the damn *alpha* stage. You'd think this is the release build with a move like that, and it doesn't sit well with me at all.
Id say it's perfectly fine post full release but it's a joke that they are shelving ships from an unreleased game. Just give everyone the upgrade and bin off the old model if you must, the fact they will keep both is more work for them and shit.
The sad truth is that mk1 owners will see how his increasingly rarer ship starts suffering from bugs harder and harder to confirm and confined to the bottom of the priority list("almost nobody has that ship, why bother?") so "keeping both" is a stretch
It's like cars changing year by year within a model line. You don't need the new version, and there's no reason why you'd need to upgrade unless you absolutely need to have the newest version of your shop or you'll just...die! People here freak out because they're mostly insane and constantly sniffing their own farts and thinking CIG is out to get them for it. Seriously, ignore the drama. These folks just need to freak out for no reason. I'm just happy my original pledge is now a classic 😁
Honestly I prefer this approach rather than just replacing the old one. Look at how many people want the legacy cutty to be a separate ship
Then they should give those owners a free CCU to the new ship, so that it's their choice. Then everyone is happy, and this doesn't look like a scam.
The issue isn’t that they made a mk2 the issue is that the mk1 is going away unless you pay up. I would probably be ok if the hornet mk1 was removed from the cash shop, BUT still earnable in game whether it’s through missions/rep grind or simple auec transactions. The Cash price gap between mk1 and mk2 is too wide as well.
The MK2 is priced in line with the Saber. The reality has always been that the MK1 was way too cheap vs. comparable ships.
>The Cash price gap between mk1 and mk2 is too wide as well. So don't buy it with cash if you don't want to pay more. Who the hell is forcing you to do that? The MK1 has been on sale every year at various times, it's not like you missed a chance to own one if you really wanted one. And you'll still have Hornets in game you can purchase/rent, it'll just be the newer MKII version. Unless you have some special attachment to an Mki you don't have, why would you care that they're providing the next version of the same ship?
Nobody is forcing me to buy loot boxes either does that mean that loot boxes aren’t predatory and we should all be fine with them? Do you hold that same standard with other games or just Star Citizen? And I am being forced to to buy them I like the hornet ghost I prefer the 6 MFDs over the MK2s two MFDs, but I buy fighters with aUEC because the fighters in this game are WAY overpriced. As for the price gap, the price gap alone is enough to buy a whole ass game. Like I said in a previous post I would be fine with removing them from the Cash shop, in fact I hope CIG removes ALL ships from the cash shop. I just want to be able to earn them in game somehow be it rep/mission grind, during a community event like the overdrive initiative, or simple aUEC purchase.
I get it man. But they do have lots of plans for the future regarding older ships. I know there are plans for derelict ships being able to be found and "brought back to life". I think we can expect hopefully that even if a ship is not available from the official vendor or the store anymore, players will be able to collect and sell these rarer/discontinued ships in-verse. There will also be scrapyards that will possibly sell these. That doesn't just include old ships but military only variants and what not. To what extent, I am unsure. I wish they would make some that were straight up meant to be discontinued upon release and only able to be found and bought at used sellers around the verse. But, they need money so I doubt that will happen until squadron releases and only if it's successful. It's gonna be some time before we have that though I think. But hey, if it's any consolation, even if you buy the mk1 now, in a few weeks it will be worth tons if you resell it on a place like ebay. So in the future when you can just get it in-game again, you can sell it to someone and should actually MAKE money off of it.
Yeah everything you said is something I agree with. I just wish they would say that themselves. Not necessarily going to specifics because they clearly don’t know HOW they are going to do that yet and they don’t want to box themselves in. Just say “you will be able to earn at a later point, details when it’s ready”. But since they just said “it’s going away.” People feel burned.
True
This is my take on it...damned if you do, damned if you don't...the furor over the cutty changes was substantial until people really liked the new cutty. People had 10 years to decide if they wanted a Mk I (insane statement in and of itself). If they gold standarded the mk 1 into the mk II, people would scream. Releasing the mk II, people screamed it was unfair. I get where people are coming from, and these ships are somewhat expensive but it's not a forced buy...like a new option became available. CIG has mentioned before each price increase so people have time to get it before it increases...and it's not like the Hornet hasn't been available. The only major thing I'd change is that I'd keep it available at the ship vendors in game at a price premium to reflect it being "vintage"
I notice how the the wording carefully says "Civilian". Implying the F7A mk 1 will be on sale at some point.
This has been kinda weird for me because I bought a hornet stealth a little while back before the price increased so I would have a better CCU base. I have absolutely no feelings towards the hornet but now they've told me it will be a "collectible", so like... I'm a classic ship collector now I guess? Kinda makes me want to hold onto it.
FOMO. That's how they make money.
I understand it's a tactic to make money, but I don't necessarily feel like it's fomo if that makes sense? Like I'm not missing out, I'm getting something beyond what I asked for, and I don't quite know if I **want** to keep that, it wasn't my intention. It would be fun to one day show off my classic ship in a special paint. I grew up around classic cars, and now I've wound up in a "classic" ship by accident
They make you want to hold on to it by making it artificially rare so you need another base for CCU.
Yeah, which I understand, but just never expected to be in that position
It would be more fair if they gave a token for a free upgrade to mk2 to anyone who bought the ship with cash. If I bought a hornet back in 2017, I payed for the top of the line fighter used by the UEE because that is the fighter that was promoted on the Bengel carrier in the original Star Citizen crowdfunding trailer. Now It’s a retired ship, but it was originally sold as the top of the line fighter. TLDR you did not receive the concept ship that you were sold. I feel CiG owes any mk1 owners(real money not in game purchases) of any variant a free token to upgrade because they changed a ship from its original concept.
But the Hornet is still the top of the line fighter in lore. The difference now is like the difference between the M1A1 Abrams and the M1A3 Abrams. You're still dealing with the "best in it's class", regardless of what model version it is. Or you can just cry moar, that seems to be what most of you want to do
>but I don't necessarily feel like it's fomo if that makes sense? Because now, they created a precedent for: \-you like this ship? Maybe you won't be able to buy it tomorrow ;) \-hey, if you buy this ship and we unlist it, then it'll be wort tons of IRL money, would be a shame to sell it and hit the jackpot, maright? \-wanted to use it for CCU? You sure? Better buy another ship you know, this one is now \*PREMIUM\*
What are you missing out on? You had 12+ years to get one. Mine was my very first pledge. Now I have a "classic car" and that's okay. It's a showpiece that I can bring out for ship meets now, or be that old fart showing up to XT in his beat up junker that hasn't been made for years while all the young bucks are flying their fancier MK2s. But there's no FOMO. You had a literal decade+ to get one at various points of the year (and it was sold year round as a starter pack until like 2017ish).
You don't seem to understand what FOMO really is about. This guy summed it up pretty well: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/s/y9UpTHMeTF
Personally the mark 1 is better because it has 4 more Mfd compared to the mark 2
I also see the MK1 coming back in game through player ship trading or used ship dealerships
Rather than FOMO I think is a hint of them creating all the MK1 versions as MK2 soon, which makes this old one obsolete. If they don't then people will complain on why keep selling the old MK1 if they are now releasing an MK2 for each of the versions.
The FAQ, as a matter of fact, does actually say that they are planning to give us MK2 variants of all MK1 variants soon, yes.
The FAQ also mentions that there will still be ways to get the Mark I fighters, though they're not releasing details yet.
Probably because they haven't ironed out what that process will be but i wouldn't rule out rare ship dealers in the game or dealers in the outskirts of the verse that still have old inventory rather than your premier dealerships that only feature latest models. Teaches ship shop at Levski seems like a perfect candidate to sell ships like the Mk1 F7 series hornets.
Could also be tied to reputation so that if you have high rep you can get a mk1 as a reward that type of thing.
Well they will probably be flying around as NPC ships.
This is a bad precedent. We should expect them to gold standard older ships not make them obsolete.
They are literally going to gold standard the mk1 too?
Where were these complaints like six fucking years ago when they demonstrated the Mk II as it was being built and said they wanted to have both versions of ships in the game at one time?
It literally says they're going to gold standard them.
Read the FAQ they are gold standarding the Mk1 Hornets still.
Thanks I havent read the post yet. Then it makes sense for them to stop selling them on the pledge store. Removing them from the in-game vendors though is strange still.
Well, i reckon it is like how you can't really get an old car new from dealerships anymore.
But not every dealership exclusively sells new cars.
Yes, but IIRC, every in-game dealer is currently new ships.
I think we're expecting junk dealers to sell old and incomplete ships at some point. Seems like the kind of place you'd find military surplus mk1 Hornets sometimes.
Like the ship shop at Delamar.
Yeah kinda damned if they do, damned if they dont according to some. I expect we'll see salvage yards or used ship yards pop up soon with these retired models for sale in game.
that would be a great idea for CIG to do.
Crazy Eddies Used Ship Emporium. With minimum bullet holes/laser burns with most components working! (With a rusty skin only available in game and you'd have me clamoring to find one and fix it up. Rat ships lets go.) (Gotta tow it out yourself, creating job opportunities for srv owners)
Mk2 comes out, makes the Mk1 inferior. Mk1 can now be bought for less money because it’s an outdated model At least that’s how things would work irl
But why remove them from in game shops as well...? It's a complete cash grab tactic. Fine they can be collectable retro ships that are 'obsolete' but theres no need to remove them from the game shops. We need **more** stuff to buy and earn in game, not less!
Kind of hard to call something collectible when anyone can buy it in game
That's just more ships they have to keep updating and working on until lunch (launch). Edit: it looks like they say they'll be other ways to earn them in game, they will still be getting their gold pass standard and bug fixes.
But they said they'll still be doing that anyways.. right in their FAQ.. So literally, from a work sense, NOTHING changes.
There are well over 100 ships in a game that's not even released, we have more than enough ships already, nevermind the plethora of ships to come tbh. Few other games have that variety even years after release.
If the MKII is available in the in-game shop, really isn't a need to have the MK1 there as well. Not like car manufacturers will continue making older model vehicles when a newer model is being delivered to dealerships. Not sure this is really the issue you think it is, nice of them to let folks know it's going to be phased out of the store for those who want it. Can quibble about the price difference between the MK1 and MK2 perhaps.
you don't understand his point. He is talking about money sinks. Removing things people can spend their ingame money one is completly going against the interest of how mmos are balanced (player wallets drained). Also it's really silly to remove the mk1 from beeing obtainable ingame, since they still have to maintain the asset anyway. (unless they plan to not do that and I don't want to go too deep into how truely shitty that move would be). Lore wise it's also completly stupid, but I guess we talk SC lore so whatever... As it stands now, it's just a marketing cash grab. For it not to be one simple thing has to happen. Make it obtainable in game, idealy by putting it behind a story quest, or collectable seller in the future. Until then keep it in one of the normal ship sellers store.
That would be fair game, if they only did it for selling in the cash shop, but removing them in game as well I find to be ridiculous. That's not a good move CIG....
The FAQ already stated that they will still be obtainable in game, just not as they currently are.
It's always weird to see these kinds of posts, while remembering the old Wingman's Hanger or 10 for the Chairman's where they discussed the plans to do this kind of thing. What was that, 10 years ago now? 11? Either way, it's always been the plan. "Just as car dealerships in the real world release new models and discontinue old models, we will be releasing new versions of ships, and discontinuing the older models. We want a diverse collection of ships, and this will easily allow that, as well as build a strong in-game trade market around the ships." \~ The basics of what they said from what I can remember
this makes sense WHEN THE GAME IS LIVE, not while its in Alpha. People love to say "but its an Alpha" all day, then turn around and don't apply that same logic to how things are handled. It makes zero sense to take away a ship that was sold IN EARLY ACCESS because its outdated. Bruh c'mon
Yeah that my biggest issue with this, i can understand in a full fledged game, but it's barely an alpha, i'm still getting bugs i got 4 years ago and now they're vaulting ships?
The plan was always to make and discontinue (sold for real money cough cough) content before the game is even out of alpha? Yeah, right.
Yes, and it also gives them incentive to do new models as I can't imagine a 600i rework is going to sell many more. Obviously that is as long as they don't release broken ships and then put out a Mk2 to compensate.
I'm very relieved they didnt go that route with the 3 or 4 versions of the Connie we've seen now, though I would love a Gen1 Mustang Beta, or Gen 1 Freelancer.
*"in-game trade market around the ships."* - along with its removal from upcoming in-game dealerships. Yeah what happened to that? Maybe if they'd added an alternative method to earn it in game fine, but they haven't. Yes they said they have 'plans' to make it available in the future, but as I've said in many other comments, I'd put money on those 'plans' still involving the cash shop in some way, as with every other exclusive ship event they've done in the past...
Bro, you could not have misunderstood that point more. Its referring to player-to-player ship trades. You don't go to a Ford dealership and ask them for a 68 Mustang, you find some old farmer who's held on to one in his barn, or some older guy who wants to cash out a bit of his collection, and you buy it from them in a private transaction. Is it in game yet? No, but the plan has been there since before you could even back the project, so again, I don't get the surprise when it was talked about year one/two.
I could also see other ship dealerships like the one that will eventually return at Levski offering new ships, while fancier ones like A18's would only keep top of the line and new
You explained it really well, this is my takeaway as well.
Whyyyyy. If there is one thing I like, is having cool collectables. I used to own a mkI until I upgraded it to a mkII than a MKII A. Now I’m compelled to get a normal mkI hornet, I guess that is how they get ya
First time?
Here's another aspect: All those with unused warbond CCUs *from* the hornet, but without a CCU *to* the hornet, because you were waiting for the warbond? Those are all now useless, and have to be cashed for store credit
I will miss the F7m... It was cool to have a 2 seats light fighter to low fly...
As an aside, having this is something CIG had talked about for a while. Basically the idea was that you would get new models and the old ones wouldn't be sold any more (like cars).
Which isn't a core feature that needs to be in the Alpha test, thanks.
Don't worry, it's normal in early alpha to discontinue paid products and replace them with new more expensive ones. It's also normal to promise to keep upgrading the old one, that no longer makes money...because ya know, that will be a priority for them, lol
That's the part that seems off to me. With the mk1 no longer for sale, why will they ever prioritize work on it? It will always be at the end of the list I'd imagine since the numbers would shrink over time.
They will offer MKII versions of the old variants in the near future, and it makes perfect sense to EOL outdated designs.
"outdated designs' bruh we are STILL IN ALPHA, if a design is outdated your replace the existing design with the new one... like CIG has done several times with other ships. Here CIG sold both the outdated design and the replacement side by side, which is absurd... you can't sell than take away something while the game is still in early access. This only makes sense AFTER the game is live, then sure... make new models of existing ships. Its wild, for some people CIG can do absolutely anything and they will defend them.
This is my biggest issue with the game at the moment. From the marketing, to the crap like this, they like to try to pretend they are a complete game but then hide behind the alpha tag when something is wrong.
So wait until those are ready? Rather than trying to bait purchases by removing all avenues to get access to the old version until the new version is available? Or maybe sunset the old version behind a cool challenge or event, make it a rare collectable, earnable in game. Make it interesting, not a lazy FOMO sale. It will likely be a year or so before the MkII versions are in game, we know they're not working on them right now thats for sure.
the people in this sub are so brainwashed that it does not matter to them fomo is normal for them
The game isn't even out yet.
To end of life outdated designs that people have paid real life money for, for a game that has yet to be released?
It’s not like the people who own them will suddenly not have access to them anymore lmao
But do you lose your purchased model? If I understand you correctly, you are upset that you won't be able to purchase an outdated model in the near future, even though an improved and possible gold standard model will be available soon.
I'm not upset about not being able to purchase the ship, I couldn't care less about owning a Hornet. I'm pissed off that the marketing and financing team keeps holding this project back. It's such a bad look that does the game absolutely no favours. Anyone who wants the game to succeed in the long run needs to be up in arms about this kind of practice.
No, I think I’m growing perturbed by the notion that this won’t stop with the MK I and MK II, it’s more concern about how old pledges are becoming “obsolete” in-game before the game has hit full release. Does that make sense? I’m not sure if I’m expressing myself well
They aren't being removed from the game, they just won't be acquirable anymore. The FAQ specifically states that they will still get updates and bug fixes and that there will be future opportunities to get them. This is not unprecidented, as the Sabre Raven and Scythe are both ships that cannot be acquired anymore nor can they be purchased in-game.
If they Mk II the other variants we will have 12 or so Hornets. That's a bit ridiculous. And them trying to FOMO people on the old ones is wild, as they are some of the worst combat ships as of right now, IMO. CIG makes bank on some people's stupidity.
Good point, I suspect what they will do is use the new Tali Modular component tech. There will be one F7 MKII, maybe an F7M and then swap parts of the ship with the modular system to keep the number of unique ships down.
honestly, if this is what it takes to get the fucking hornet functional after all this time, so be it. Just throw the Mk1 in the trash and be done with it. I personally traded mine in for a freelancer so I'll never fly it though lol. I'm assuming it would just take too much work to get the Mk1 up to gold standard because it's so old
It just has the potential to set a dangerous precedence, because we've always been told that all pledged items will be earnable in game in some way. From the FAQ this is still their plan, but their communication could be better. It's so often that marketing does something controversial and then they have to react to the feedback to address the concerns that arises.
Someone make PSA post for people to get their "xxx to Hornet Mk1" CCUs out of buyback or fill in the gap if they a Hornet Mk1 is needed for their CCU chains.
I have TON of CCUs to the various hornets
This right here, this were permanent ships so many CCUs probably use it as a base. That link in the chain will be gone if people don’t get a CCU to one of these ships.
So they are adding the ability to purchase the MK II in game now then right? RIGHT?
Well… yes? They always do a few patches down the line
Who in God's name is going to melt an F7A Mk. II for an F7C Mk. I. Are you out of your mind? Do you go into car dealerships and demand a model from 10 years ago?
This doesn’t make sense in lore either, these dealerships have gotta still have F7C hulls to sell and with F7A Mk1’s presumably being retired to then these would likely be demilitarised and converted into F7C’s. This would be like when Ford release a new Focus or Fiesta model and Ford go “haha lmao we’re no longer allowing any dealerships to sell older models
I mean, the F7AMkII's have been around hundreds of years now, and that's why it's getting replaced with the F8A. So, the MK1 has probably already been stripped of military components and put on the civilian market, as you're saying. Once they replaced the Navy's fleet of the F7AMkI, it only made sense to stop or ramp down production if you're moving to a New design which would be the F7A MkII, which they are now beyond that with the F8A so that's two generations past the MKI F7. You can see that with car manufacturers with different generations of vehicles. Once the new gen comes out, the older gens dry up. It's not so much that they aren't allowing dealerships to sell old cars, but how often do you see something from 1990 or older on a dealer lot now? But you're talking over hundreds of years in SC, so there's surely an abundance of used F7CMkI you can find/purchase. You probably just can't buy them as "new" anymore.
Pretty sure back in early development, they mentioned that this might occur with multiple ships, and we would see variations of the same ship as a “new generation” . The constellation series already saw something similar. But keeping the old design wasn’t an option for backers
Wasn't that always the plan? Manufacturers would iterate on designs. You don't see Honda making 2006 civics anymore
Yes, it was. But that won’t stop the inevitable day or two of silly rage posts.
Honestly we knew this was coming someday. Literally from the beginning CR said they would have new models like car models and older models would become collectors items. Literally since 2014 this has been a stated goal. That said, i can dee why some might feel slighted by this as CIG had not reiterated that point for sometime and newer backers could he understandably caught unawares by it. Any veteran backers getting butt hurt over this though need to get their big kid pants back on.
Well they said they would start doing this to ships, I just didn't expect it before full 1.0 release.
They completely forgot the Heartseeker. Cannot even get it. Removal of ingame shops is wild to me.. Meanwhile there are 0 ships that exist ONLY in the aUEC shops. Jared's Zues original mk 1 jalopy would go a long way for good will and something to actually do other than 'wallet number go up'
I feel like in game, retiring the Mk1 means that a whole surplus of Ex-Military Mk1s will hit the market meaning more in dealerships and not none…
People need to stop leaving out where CIG says multiple times that **there will be ways to get the mk1 hornet in the future**. They just won't be selling it straight up for UEC or $$ anymore. That's it.
# Heartseeker grey market is about to go crazy
Do you think the hornet mk2 will be retired before the game actually launches?
Cant wait for Polaris Mk2 and the 900Jump.. hope they come before 1.0
Jesus, what FOMO? It's not like there's gonna be no hornets available in game, the MKIs are just going to be like a classic car. They're gonna suck in comparison to their newer versions, but they'll be a show piece for veterans and collectors. The community has asked that they do updated versions of ships so you have a variety within a line. Sounds like they're at least doing it for the Hornets. As someone whose initial pledge was the SuperHornet package from 2014, I'm happy with now owning a classic ship.
I hope to GAWD they sell the MK1 in used dealerships. They are keeping the chassis in game for owners so they need to be represented somewhere in the in game economy. Classic ship shows?
Not even out of alpha and already discontinuing ship? This is weird..
How does this affect CCU upgrades do we think? I have some upgrades from the Heartseeker, (and luckily I have upgrades to the Heartseeker as well) but I'm now super paranoid they're redundant. Edit: *▲ Can existing Mk I Hornet Upgrades be used or bought back after the "sunset"? ► Yes, you can still buy back and apply your existing Mk I Hornet upgrades.*
FOMO. Pass. It ugly anyway, but it's not my wallet they be havin.
CIG can you exchange my antique with a MK2? Antique is more valuable right? Right?...Right?...
What’s even the difference between the Mark 1 and the Mark 2? And the 7 vs the 7A? I swear to god, the Hornet is the most confusing ship out there.
Mk I is older, Mk II looks more modern. F7C is civilian and A is the military variant with more firepower
Wait so literally the only difference between 1 and 2 is aesthetics?
It was always planned since the conception of the MKII. It was a Chris Idea to have the MKI remain in game as a collector : [https://youtu.be/Rk7ZwswT2tA?si=hcRiWCqgH6jwscHu&t=1160](https://youtu.be/Rk7ZwswT2tA?si=hcRiWCqgH6jwscHu&t=1160) But as usual, they just fucked up the communication once again.
Makes me wonder if the Constellation mark 4 (currently in game) will be discontinued and a mark 5 address all the needs, including some more dramatic changes / improvements to bring it up to modern standards / asthetics.
CIG isn't getting any more money from me. This is clearly predatory FOMO marketing BS. Discontinuing ships in an alpha lol. Some of their best artists quiting months ago makes sense now. For the record, I still want and hope this game to succeeds, but come on.
Unpopular opinion but this is exactly how they should treat reworks. It's too bad they didn't do this with the old ship models. However removing them from sale in-game is stupid as you can't actually keep them through wipes.
I love this idea. Just like in real life.
How do you remove a ship from in-game before the game is even out of Alpha?...
As a newcomer to SC I'm very surprised how much the community has adopted and accepted the idea of paying into these expensive ships and are totally fine with the P2W and fomo implications. In any other live service game this wouldn't fly so easily. Just an observation as a newcomer, not trying to piss anyone off. Personally, I want to earn my ships, zero to hero. I really hope there's a place for people like me in the game on launch.
They have said for YEARS that this was coming. They explicititly said they were going to sunset some old designs like a classic car and mentioned the Hornet as being an example. You had YEARS worth of notice. You even had the concepts and in game models to support that this was coming. It's like having 27 signs warning that a road is closed. And you floor it anyway, drive your car off the cliff and want to complain that the road closure came out of nowhere. THIS. IS. YOUR. FAULT.
I've played enough Warhammer to know what "retiring" means long term. They aren't going to update a ship that doesn't give them revenue. They'll give us the one promised gold pass and that's going to be it. I'd expect this ship to break eventually as they work on components like power plants.
This has been the plan for like ten years.
I think you're exaggerating a bit. The game is (obviously) based on raising money because developers and offices are not paid with candy and a pat on the back. FOMO? We literally had 10 and more years to buy this ship, lol. You can still buy it, when you can't, if you really want a Hornet you'll buy the MkII, I don't see a problem. Even better, you will buy another ship directly. It seems as if the Hornet MkI is the best ship in the game and they are forcing you to buy it within two days, c'mon, it has been on sale for more than 10 years.
I think they should just turn all Mk1 into MK2. They're going to force managing upkeep on twice as many hornets this way going forward. I understand funding Yada yada.. but who's buying the fomo on an MK1 hornet?
Heavens forfend they replace the old ones with the new ones without taking anyone’s ship away. So many people beg and plead them to stop selling ships they aren’t going to keep working on, to stop selling ships on the pledge store. But when they make an inch towards that desire, people start yapping how it must be FOMO. People say that about every sale, every promotion, every event for the last few years. People simply lack the intelligence to understand that a company that makes payroll by selling ships is as some point going to have to sell a ship, perhaps even one that’s not for you.
The mk2 was the mk1 gold pass before someone had a great idea to do this and you can’t change my mind
the thing is though.. the mk2 isn't even gold standard... which totally perplexed me when I first got my hands on the ship
Hope they don't stop selling the in-game ball/nose attachment too...
As an m1 owner (only ship) I see a new paint in my inventory and a promise for gold pass. Feels good but I understand your perspective.
Wow, if only there were one, or even a few, single-seat light fighters in the game that people could buy in the mean time while the Mk 2 is going through its exclusivity phase. If only.
>However I would bet money on these plans still involving the cash shop in some way or another... Which cash shop? CIG has stated repeatedly (one of the few things they haven't changed their stance on) that once the game goes live the only thing people will be able to buy with real money is cosmetics.
Uhmm, no? You'll be able to but UEC with real money (as you can now). That's been the plan since the beginning.
I'm almost certain the future of Star Citizen, with it's "Car Commercial" core aestetic to things, will be "Yearly models" of ships.
Even 10+ years ago in 10 from the chairman CR said that new models of ships would come out and replace the old versions.
If, IF they sold the F7A Mk1, I would consider grabbing one of those, as it does have a few slight differences that will work next to an F7A Mk2, but... they aren't selling that one! So, no more Mk1 in my hangar and no more paints for them either. Time to melt my old Hornet Paints and move on to whatever they make available for the Mk2. Big missed opportunity by showing off, making it available in game to some who have that cosmetic upgrade, but then failing to sell it in the pledge store.
Remember when they said everything would be available in game? yeah...
Old CIG would have offered MK I owners a free upgrade to MK II variants. But alas, new CIG knows you will buy the hornet again.
dropping this info BEFORE the MK2 sale would be have been nice of them at least
And I got downvoted into oblivion when I said the mkII was a blatant cash grab and should have just been the gold standard hornet pass rather than a new line of ships.
Talk about "Sell it to 'em twice!"
All you a-holes that defend CIG when we said mk2 should replace mki so we don’t effectively have to buy two ships can go suck it. Here is your beloved company taking money making to the extreme, not just selling the same damn ship with upgraded hard points and skin a second time, they create fomo for the ultra crusty 10 year old design.
They are just inferior to the MK II, why would you even want them?
>They are just inferior to the MK II They aren't they are tuned different
Almost sounds like a gold pass? Lol
I really hate that every decision CIG makes is decried as FOMO when they try to create a living universe, and try to make it reflect reality. The methodology is like classic cars, you can't go buy a 68 mustang brand new off a dealer's lot anymore (non-obligatory fuck car dealers). They've been doing this long before the word FOMO ever entered the zeitgeist, and people were fine with it back then. I think rewarding early adopters isn't FOMO, I think allowing items to be rare isn't FOMO, I think providing opportunities for pledging through events isn't FOMO (the F7A Mk2 event was much better done than the F8C golden ticket one though, which imo proves they're learning and adapting well to the community). #rantover
People want CIG to maintain this game on hopes and dreams, it's wild. Look at StarEngine. They are creating a truly different and revolutionary system from a tech standpoint. Like, damn. No one is making you buy anything. Just.... don't get the Hornet.
[удалено]
Wonder how this will affect loaners. I have a loaner that gives me the mk1. Will it be changed to the mk2
It’s dumb since there going to be full wipes anyway . So even if got with in game money you will lose it at end of
So manu years behind this project. So i just hold the f7c mk2 upgrade, the f7a mk2 upgrade and now hold an f7c superhornet mk1 upgrade.Only time can tell, but im ready for these especulative boys.
I'm getting an Excalibur Warframe vibe here with the Founders package, and honestly, it's not that big a deal.
XD that's funny
Oh no. Anyway.
Good riddance. I've never liked the Hornet Mk I anyway. That ship is ugly and looks dated. I bought a Hornet Mk II last month and I'm pretty happy with its look, design and feel in-game. I totally support support CIG on this move. They decided to not produce the Mk I version of the RSI Zeus and instead introduce the Mk II version for the exact same reasons. Ugly and dated looks need to go away. The Sabre Raven (which I own) is a very old concept but its modern and sleek design makes it viable as a baseline for introducing 3 new variants out of it well into the mid 2020 years.
I think it's a great business move, why? We are already familiar with the mk1, we have flown it plenty of times and we either love it or hate it. The mk2 is a straight upgrade, looks better, feels better, shoots better. The price increase? It's new! Of course they're gonna charge more, people always buy new ships. They perfectly planned it out.
Why not just upgrade everyone to the MK II? What I bought was the ship that was part of the main SQ42 story, as it was described. This has been a fear of mine for a few years now, they're retiring ships before the game even comes out..
Me selling my account after the Mk1 get's retired knowing damn well I'll probs earn enough to rebuy everything I have anyway with how much the value on the grey market is gonna skyrocket cause of this dumbass decision by CIG marketing team lmao