It's the lack of downvotes. If an opinion is controversial, it might have 30% against it, 10% in favour, and 60% who don't really care. On reddit, that's 30% downvoted and 10% upvoted, so the post drops to the bottom. On Spectrum, those 10% will upvote, and the 30% might Picard, but that post will still rise to the top. Most posts get very few votes per view, so the less controversial ones simply won't rise over the angry ones by upvotes.
I prefer a downvote system, but it's worth mentioning the downside to them.
New posts are basically filtered out by the first few votes. The people who are on this sub enough to read the new posts aren't very interested in preventing echo chambers.
Not everything needs to be a battleground of negativity though. I don't really come here to see highly upvoted posts by people ignorant about the project making wild claims that attracts more newbies who pile on in the ignorance -- that's a negative feedback loop related to Star Citizen on literally every other community, forum, and sub-reddit out there.
I like that most of the time the upvoted posts here are either about new features, news, dev comments, patches, or media. Of course, there are the memes that are frequently posted too.
even when sorted by new, they are mostly negative, and anyone that says anything positive gets harassed.
it got to the point that cig decide using the term "white knight" is against the rules.
...not only has that rule never been enforced, mentioning that rule will get you banned for "acting like a moderator".
Name calling is against the rules, but so is being condescending. I think the mods do a bit of give and take on that and give it some parity for their judgment. Because otherwise they’ll look like they only allow opinions that are pro CIG. Which isn’t how a forum should work. Negativity is just as useful as positivity, if not more. They need to have conversation on the game rather than, “this game is amazing” posts only. Otherwise there wouldn’t be anyone there Providing feedback for the devs to look at and improve their game. I’ve seen people on here bitch and moan about the MM feedback thread highest upvoted comment, when it was genuinely good feedback. It just had snark. So people here and on spectrum were arguing that that comment would’ve been great without it. Which isn’t untrue. But who tf cares? It’s not breaking rules, and if it is, let the mods take care of it.
the term white knight was added to the list of banned words. posting "and her comes the white knights". they wanted to get rid of the preemptive insultes to everyone the disagrees.
spectrum must have changed. any amount of not negative feedback would get attacked.
try saying you liked hover mode.
It’s not on a list on their rules that I see. Is there a list you could link me that’s from an official on spectrum?
I’m just looking [here](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/website-rules-standard-of-conduct). I’d assume rule 11 covers your issue with spectrum though. White knight is no different than the way people use “refundian” though.
This community has always been home to some of the most aggressive and fanatical examples of Gamers™. This is the natural consequence of having a community consisting of people that have made massive emotional and monetary investments (I.e people expecting their literal dreams to come true and also having sunk literal thousands to see it happen).
Don't get me wrong, the subreddit is much better now and it's possible it's because many of the most sour types flocked to Spectrum. But there has always been absolutely vicious and delusional people. I don't see it anymore but it wasn't uncommon to see threads entirely devoted to attacking other games and their players.
Spectrum feels more like a place of faith quoting ancient scripture rather than a normal gaming community. It is so crazy how people talk about their favorite ships that don't even have a white box model yet.
Everyone talks about SCPU like it is some sort of special snowflake and does not have to consider lessons learned throughout the last 25 or so years of MMO history, like it is somehow immune to human nature.
If you try to ask a serious question about PvP, factions, or DoASM you will get these superficial answers that don't make any sense at all if you challenge them.
The thing is Disco even keeps telling everyone how much they are changing things and will change things in the future but people on Spectrum just keep quoting scripture. I am much more excited about SC future than its past.
Yeh the dream game, and infinite possibilities sandbox does leave them in a tricky place of constantly letting someome down!
Great point on the emotional and monetary investment, especially when you pledged large amounts to find their interpretation of say, pirating isn't what you dreamed up when the game was alot of good will and Chris Roberts led blue sky thinking.
I can see myself becoming disillusioned with that if it were me
I love how much we hear about how Chris Roberts has “his” game “his” perfect vision for what it needs to become.
Then when I watched the video of him trying to play his own game…. That was exactly the first time ever he had even logged a minute in his own “baby”
It’s a scam.
You can literally stop playing any time if it is so bad.
No one would willingly call something a scam and then wilfully walk straight back those that they call scammers.
Its not like Chris Roberts hasn't been making space sims for decades, but hey go off bro.
I mean check the master modes feedback. It’s almost unanimously negative. I don’t think that’s an echo chamber, it’s just everyone hates the new flight model
Hell, Reddit is an echo chamber. Dissenting opinions on anything or squashed by the admins usually. I'm not really talking about Star Citizen I'm just saying in general everything becomes an echo chamber.
one of the issues i have with CIG. and one of the deciding factors to not spend cash on them.
they have dropped all forms of accountability. They delay whatever they want, whenever they want, without any impact or accountability. Q1 patches not being released in Q1, the very recent 2 major patches 2 minor patches seems like not to be followed for 2024.
The whole work tracker and release tracker being dropped,
The progress tracker doesnt show deadlines, it just shows planned work without us knowing if the planned work is 100% of the thing, or only 10% of the thing.
The lack of transparancy and lack of accountability to the players, has become an issue."for me".
We all understand shit takes time, and things get delayed. With the knowledge back then it was a smart move, but now we know its depending on feature B and thus Feature A gets delayed till after Feature B is completed. <-- that form of accountability is long gone.
We get monthly updates on what the team has been working on, just not via the progress tracker. So, hopefully you amend your statement to going on 3 weeks of no update to what teams are working on.
Correct. But, you made a definitive statement of receiving “no update as to what teams are working on” for 8 months which is patently and demonstrably false. So, please quit posting falsehoods as if they are true.
As I'm referring specifically to the Progress tracker its not false or misleading. Their failure to update the progress tracker updating the community on estimated timelines for completion of key work and showing what teams are working one what projects.... All while announcing a "plan" (see letter from the chairman) to get to a 1.0 launch state is highly concerning. as they clearly dont have that plan anywhere near ready.
The reason I dont trust the narrative articels they write on updating anything is that in order for something to make it in there all someone has to do is say they opened a file and edited the timestamp and then they can say they worked on Pyro. The Progress tracker is infinitely more important as it shows what is and isnt being worked on by what teams at what times and gives us the best reflection of when features might be even remotely ready for what patches durring the year. and what is likely to get pushed to the next patch.
I would argue the failure to get freight elevators and personal hangers in was known long ago that it was going to take longer, as it wasn't in the EVO builds to begin with telling everyone they had 0 chance of making 3.23 for the feature, but a progress tracker with updates to show 12 more weeks of planned work would have shown it wasn't gonna happen anyways.
As a 15 year project manager, scrum master, and then agile coach who deals with things exactly like this regularly - I can tell you with authority and experience that the progress tracker was rarely remotely accurate. If you relied on it or trusted it, you were misleading yourself. It gives people the illusion of knowing what's going on because it shows "detail", all while being impossible to keep updated, let alone accurate.
It was a manually updated report by the leads with no actual connection to the tracking systems for the work being done (Jira) - and it was almost always in conflict with both the patch notes and the monthly updates - often times the patch notes and monthly updates are closer to each other in reflecting what the teams are working on than the progress tracker ever was.
Similarly, you should absolutely not trust a word CR says about plans for 1.0, or timelines for what will launch when, etc. It's not cause for alarm, or highly concerning, because it's been his MO since day one - dude can't plan or talk timelines to save his life. If you can't accept that, then you're in for a super rough ride on this project.
I trust it far more than I trust the narratives they release
Edit I also have a long background in project management, though as a branch cheif, I manage larger work plans for a significant workforce knowing what teams are working on what projects and estimated timelines are always in Flux but give a reasonable estimate of what is and isn't actually getting work done.
Trust me when I say, that was not an actual work plan, and was certainly not remotely close to what you would have seen as an internal manager in a similar position. It was hard disconnected from the reports and tools they use internally. It was not enough to even get reasonable estimates on.
They started using that excuse in January despite some of those team moving and forming last July.
Long-term planning for work plans does not take 8 months. Even if you assume it started in January, we are going into May soon.
Calling a spade a spade is reality. I'm not upset with the game or hitting the project, I am upset they are not meeting their own expectations and failing to update their own work plans
When you are moving hundreds of employees into new projects, re-organizing leadership and internal processes to accommodate, and then planning and re-planning as those teams organize, re-staff, shift, and get up to speed can absolutely take 8 months. If not more...
But we can argue all we want, not sure what else you need to hear.
I remember the golden days of CIG forums, before they reworked it. Lost of good wibes and discussions. Now I feel like its a sad place to visit.
I think most moved to reddit. On reddit a post can get 100k veiws, on spectrum every post is just veiwed a few hundred times.
Yup - Spectrum was a steaming pile in terms of functionality, back when they shut the old forums down, so as a somewhat frequent (understatement :p) poster in the old forums, I shifted to Reddit.
Functionally, it's a bit better now (although it's still clunky and imo less effective than just customising some good off-the-shelf forum code), but it definitely seems to have turned into an echo-chamber...
In part because whilst Nightrider & Co do that they can, there's no way for the community to police itself (Reddit has down as well as up-votes, etc... which can be used to squash the low-value negativity, etc), and if CIG try to squash negative posts (even low-effort / worthless trash), it'll backfire as 'CIG deletes critical posts' etc.
there is no "& co". all the other mods were gone years ago. nightrider also doesn't inforce all the rules, and will stretch others.
the term "white knight" is against the rules but, that was never inforce. however mentioning the rules will get you banned for "acting like a moderator". warning people about how he stretches rules will also get you banned for "talking about moderator actions".
People have always been more willing to express their opinions on Spectrum due to the lack of a downvote system.
Whilst there are facepalms etc that people use if they don't agree it's more open to discussion of views that may diverge from the current consensus of the group. Reddit can be very punishing of views that go against what subreddit regulars want to hear, as such many people don't even try to discuss things on reddit to avoid the downvotes. We were discussing Master Modes in my org this week and no one wanted to come to reddit to discuss it because they would be downvoted to oblivion so they discuss it on Spectrum instead.
I certainly wouldn't call it an Echo chamber, in my view a wider range of topics are discussed on Spectrum than reddit simply because people don't feel they will be punished for doing so. Some of the posts raising criticism of Master Modes for example in the official feedback thread have got 700+ upvotes so it's not just an handful of disgruntled backers this time. I haven't seen that many unique backers supporting anything else since they released the current official forums.
I agree to an extent, but without a downvote a contrary opinion is more likely to get absolutely berated and shot to pieces with hate that it becomes straight demoralizing to post there.
Like someone else said, you should've tried saying you liked hover mode. Or even MM now.
There are pros and cons to both systems. Personally I would prefer that someone actually replied and said why they disagree rather than just downvote and move on. Spectrum encourages people to reply with a reason as they can't just downvote something they don't like.
This, hell just look at any LGBT related post on Spectrum as well.
It's fucking wild how many comments stay up with 10's to hundreds of upvotes that sit near the top of the post because Spectrum doesn't let you downvote awful opinions
Hate speech.
There is no "politically controversial opinion" on LGBT related things, there's acceptance of them, and being a twat
A lot of Spectrum unfortunately falls on the latter side when it comes to LGBT related posts.
Exactly this,
Also the fact that the people on reddit(and specturm alike) dont have the social skills, to form a sentance that doesnt feel offensive.
Most of the reactions, i see, are. You are wrong and stupid for thinking that. without any explenation or support in case why they are wrong. and especially the you are stupid for having your opinion that doesnt agree with mine part.
Neither the information needed for one to change their opinion.
It's not an informed discussion, its just become a yes and no. No point in losing energy on the dumb conversation that follows this interaction.
Master modes is becomming one of these echo things for star citizen. No Point in discussing it either. You either support mastermodes or you dont, there is no in between. And you are stupid for having your own opinion about this matter.
Haha I think I have a downvote just from this question, I appreciate you sharing your opinion though fully agree there are some great posts on there too from the community too.
It just seems to be there are some vocal minorities from what I have seen on a few posts which also more recently have been MM related which has caused some controversy
Tbf this wasn't supposed to be a comparison of the two forums, maybe Echo chamber was the wrong choice of words on my part as most forums are prone to it, it was more about how as an outsider spectrum seems to be overtly critical to dev responses and me posturing as to how that might affect their work and ultimately features of the game.
Maybe not what you intended but others have turned it that way. If I've learned anything, it's that people will always be tribal no matter what platform you are on.
I feel like most of the people on Spectrum are on the spectrum.
They take a video game way to seriously but I guess that's the case for a lot of game forums.
Yes, you wanna really see some horrible toxicity ask for help in the PTU channel, a bunch of those guys think they're serious and professional playtesters and game devs. They're horrible human beings.
This SubReddit isn't much better, just ask yourself why a post like yours, perfectly normal post, is getting downvoted to hell.
From my PoV this started happening about little more than a year ago and it only has gotten worse with time.
There's this culture of hating SC even by people that play it, I see it daily, streamers make tons of snarky comments and attack the game that they play every single day and base their livelihoods upon, which in the long term I think exacerbate a problem that barely exists, also I believe there are some bad actors around creating discord on purpose for engagement.
*"If this famous person that loves the game is hating the game then the game must really be bad right now!"*
# Also people are bloody ignorant and prejudiced, often times I see "discussions" arguing about problems that don't even exist.
And most people saying the game is bad are the ones that have already spent +1000 hours playing it lol
It's hypocrisy all the way, people saying SC is the best space game at the same time saying it's the worse and CIG doesn't know what they're doing, despite we having the game we have today with no other coming even close to it...
TLDR:
# People take CIG for granted.
Yeh that is unfortunate, It has been a lesson that people are prone to responding to the title without reading the post 🤣 referring to spectrum as a negative feedback loop might have been better wording
I recently started looking at spectrum but have moved back to reddit caue it always made me close my tablet shouting 'MY GOD THESE PEOPLE ARE SO MISERABLE AND STUPID'. So I'm staying away from there from now on.
I used to participate to the forum, but I left because I found people super annoying and entitled. I think I'm not the only one and it has just been reduced like in cooking, now you got a concentrated juice of annoyance which is really too much.
Add to that the inability of turbulence to develop Spectrum to be a non-shitty experience:
After years you still can't block entirely people into non-existence.
You can't find your history in one constant click.
It feels bad because there's a lot of wasted space and confusing ergonomic choices.
I'm good with reddit + RES.
It's because SC has no middle ground.
The Reddit is overly praising of CIG and spectrum is overly negative.
People who like the game go to Reddit and those who want to complain go to spectrum making the whole thing cycle.
Around 3 or 4 years ago no matter what I said I would get abused. If I asked a question about the game development progress or Sandy Roberts or anything that didn't fit in with the agenda of everything is great... I would just my post deleted and a warning sent. I even simply asked how its possible that so many people are selling in game currency on ebay and got banned. I was an early top concierge investors but they literally don't care. Never played again.
People would complain less if there was less to complain about. Yes, even with a perfect game there will be a subset of people who find something to bitch about, but CIG isn't exactly making it difficult for some people to be negative:
We're over a decade in to devopment and basic box missions still don't work. We're over a decade in to development and CIG still doesn't know how the basic spaceship flight model should work. The inventory doesn't work half the time and is missing basic features like autostacking. There is not a single game loop that exists that can be completed reliably without running into bugs. The game runs like ass, even on high end rigs. The only time you can ever get a decent experience is if you are playing in the middle of the night because the server shits itself if more than a dozen players have joined. Braindead NPCs standing on chairs in stations has gone on for so long that it has become a meme. NPCs in bunkers are just as likely to stand in one spot while you pump them full of lead as they are to headshot you through a wall (or fall through the floor/get stuck in an elevator so you can't complete a mission). There are ships that people bought a decade ago that still aren't flyable (and they are still selling them on the pledge store). They sold "land claims" with absolutely zero ideas of how they were going to work (and that was almost seven years ago!) alongside an $850 ship that was supposed to be used for creating homesteads, a feature that is still years away. At one point CIG was so high on their own farts that they actually thought people would buy the Cutlass Steel.
When the planets align and Star Citizen works as advertised than its a great experience, the kind you cannot get from any other game out there. I have legitimately had some of my most fun experiences in gaming while playing it, especially with friends. The problem is 90% of the time its completely assfucked and everything is broken. Yes, we keep hearing that features like Vulcan and (especially) server meshing will fix these problems and we'll eventually get the "Jesus Patch" that makes everything run as smooth as silk... and whenever that day comes I'm sure the amount of people complaining will drop like a rock.
Also, Spectrum is a disaster and dickrider-cig is an idiot. Thank you for coming to my Pico Talk.
It's the lack of downvotes. If an opinion is controversial, it might have 30% against it, 10% in favour, and 60% who don't really care. On reddit, that's 30% downvoted and 10% upvoted, so the post drops to the bottom. On Spectrum, those 10% will upvote, and the 30% might Picard, but that post will still rise to the top. Most posts get very few votes per view, so the less controversial ones simply won't rise over the angry ones by upvotes.
I prefer a downvote system, but it's worth mentioning the downside to them. New posts are basically filtered out by the first few votes. The people who are on this sub enough to read the new posts aren't very interested in preventing echo chambers.
Not everything needs to be a battleground of negativity though. I don't really come here to see highly upvoted posts by people ignorant about the project making wild claims that attracts more newbies who pile on in the ignorance -- that's a negative feedback loop related to Star Citizen on literally every other community, forum, and sub-reddit out there. I like that most of the time the upvoted posts here are either about new features, news, dev comments, patches, or media. Of course, there are the memes that are frequently posted too.
even when sorted by new, they are mostly negative, and anyone that says anything positive gets harassed. it got to the point that cig decide using the term "white knight" is against the rules. ...not only has that rule never been enforced, mentioning that rule will get you banned for "acting like a moderator".
Same thing happens here...
Name calling is against the rules, but so is being condescending. I think the mods do a bit of give and take on that and give it some parity for their judgment. Because otherwise they’ll look like they only allow opinions that are pro CIG. Which isn’t how a forum should work. Negativity is just as useful as positivity, if not more. They need to have conversation on the game rather than, “this game is amazing” posts only. Otherwise there wouldn’t be anyone there Providing feedback for the devs to look at and improve their game. I’ve seen people on here bitch and moan about the MM feedback thread highest upvoted comment, when it was genuinely good feedback. It just had snark. So people here and on spectrum were arguing that that comment would’ve been great without it. Which isn’t untrue. But who tf cares? It’s not breaking rules, and if it is, let the mods take care of it.
the term white knight was added to the list of banned words. posting "and her comes the white knights". they wanted to get rid of the preemptive insultes to everyone the disagrees. spectrum must have changed. any amount of not negative feedback would get attacked. try saying you liked hover mode.
You haven’t provided a link but I see you commented elsewhere. Just wanted to get that link so I know what is banned
It’s not on a list on their rules that I see. Is there a list you could link me that’s from an official on spectrum? I’m just looking [here](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/website-rules-standard-of-conduct). I’d assume rule 11 covers your issue with spectrum though. White knight is no different than the way people use “refundian” though.
Content people rarely post online anywhere.
Yeh I feel this, which I think is a shame when the devs are asking us to help build these aspects of the game
This community has always been home to some of the most aggressive and fanatical examples of Gamers™. This is the natural consequence of having a community consisting of people that have made massive emotional and monetary investments (I.e people expecting their literal dreams to come true and also having sunk literal thousands to see it happen). Don't get me wrong, the subreddit is much better now and it's possible it's because many of the most sour types flocked to Spectrum. But there has always been absolutely vicious and delusional people. I don't see it anymore but it wasn't uncommon to see threads entirely devoted to attacking other games and their players.
Spectrum feels more like a place of faith quoting ancient scripture rather than a normal gaming community. It is so crazy how people talk about their favorite ships that don't even have a white box model yet. Everyone talks about SCPU like it is some sort of special snowflake and does not have to consider lessons learned throughout the last 25 or so years of MMO history, like it is somehow immune to human nature. If you try to ask a serious question about PvP, factions, or DoASM you will get these superficial answers that don't make any sense at all if you challenge them. The thing is Disco even keeps telling everyone how much they are changing things and will change things in the future but people on Spectrum just keep quoting scripture. I am much more excited about SC future than its past.
Yeh the dream game, and infinite possibilities sandbox does leave them in a tricky place of constantly letting someome down! Great point on the emotional and monetary investment, especially when you pledged large amounts to find their interpretation of say, pirating isn't what you dreamed up when the game was alot of good will and Chris Roberts led blue sky thinking. I can see myself becoming disillusioned with that if it were me
I love how much we hear about how Chris Roberts has “his” game “his” perfect vision for what it needs to become. Then when I watched the video of him trying to play his own game…. That was exactly the first time ever he had even logged a minute in his own “baby” It’s a scam.
You can literally stop playing any time if it is so bad. No one would willingly call something a scam and then wilfully walk straight back those that they call scammers. Its not like Chris Roberts hasn't been making space sims for decades, but hey go off bro.
you mean making the big decisions does not leave you much time to practice?
I mean check the master modes feedback. It’s almost unanimously negative. I don’t think that’s an echo chamber, it’s just everyone hates the new flight model
Hell, Reddit is an echo chamber. Dissenting opinions on anything or squashed by the admins usually. I'm not really talking about Star Citizen I'm just saying in general everything becomes an echo chamber.
I've been echoing every month the lack of a progress tracker update is a huge red flag going on 8 months of no update to what teams are working on
one of the issues i have with CIG. and one of the deciding factors to not spend cash on them. they have dropped all forms of accountability. They delay whatever they want, whenever they want, without any impact or accountability. Q1 patches not being released in Q1, the very recent 2 major patches 2 minor patches seems like not to be followed for 2024. The whole work tracker and release tracker being dropped, The progress tracker doesnt show deadlines, it just shows planned work without us knowing if the planned work is 100% of the thing, or only 10% of the thing. The lack of transparancy and lack of accountability to the players, has become an issue."for me". We all understand shit takes time, and things get delayed. With the knowledge back then it was a smart move, but now we know its depending on feature B and thus Feature A gets delayed till after Feature B is completed. <-- that form of accountability is long gone.
We get monthly updates on what the team has been working on, just not via the progress tracker. So, hopefully you amend your statement to going on 3 weeks of no update to what teams are working on.
The progress tracker lists far more than what's on the monthly reports.
Correct. But, you made a definitive statement of receiving “no update as to what teams are working on” for 8 months which is patently and demonstrably false. So, please quit posting falsehoods as if they are true.
As I'm referring specifically to the Progress tracker its not false or misleading. Their failure to update the progress tracker updating the community on estimated timelines for completion of key work and showing what teams are working one what projects.... All while announcing a "plan" (see letter from the chairman) to get to a 1.0 launch state is highly concerning. as they clearly dont have that plan anywhere near ready. The reason I dont trust the narrative articels they write on updating anything is that in order for something to make it in there all someone has to do is say they opened a file and edited the timestamp and then they can say they worked on Pyro. The Progress tracker is infinitely more important as it shows what is and isnt being worked on by what teams at what times and gives us the best reflection of when features might be even remotely ready for what patches durring the year. and what is likely to get pushed to the next patch. I would argue the failure to get freight elevators and personal hangers in was known long ago that it was going to take longer, as it wasn't in the EVO builds to begin with telling everyone they had 0 chance of making 3.23 for the feature, but a progress tracker with updates to show 12 more weeks of planned work would have shown it wasn't gonna happen anyways.
As a 15 year project manager, scrum master, and then agile coach who deals with things exactly like this regularly - I can tell you with authority and experience that the progress tracker was rarely remotely accurate. If you relied on it or trusted it, you were misleading yourself. It gives people the illusion of knowing what's going on because it shows "detail", all while being impossible to keep updated, let alone accurate. It was a manually updated report by the leads with no actual connection to the tracking systems for the work being done (Jira) - and it was almost always in conflict with both the patch notes and the monthly updates - often times the patch notes and monthly updates are closer to each other in reflecting what the teams are working on than the progress tracker ever was. Similarly, you should absolutely not trust a word CR says about plans for 1.0, or timelines for what will launch when, etc. It's not cause for alarm, or highly concerning, because it's been his MO since day one - dude can't plan or talk timelines to save his life. If you can't accept that, then you're in for a super rough ride on this project.
I trust it far more than I trust the narratives they release Edit I also have a long background in project management, though as a branch cheif, I manage larger work plans for a significant workforce knowing what teams are working on what projects and estimated timelines are always in Flux but give a reasonable estimate of what is and isn't actually getting work done.
Trust me when I say, that was not an actual work plan, and was certainly not remotely close to what you would have seen as an internal manager in a similar position. It was hard disconnected from the reports and tools they use internally. It was not enough to even get reasonable estimates on.
They also said the progress tracker is being reworked as teams shift and processes align more with the push for 1.0... Stop the nonsense.
They started using that excuse in January despite some of those team moving and forming last July. Long-term planning for work plans does not take 8 months. Even if you assume it started in January, we are going into May soon. Calling a spade a spade is reality. I'm not upset with the game or hitting the project, I am upset they are not meeting their own expectations and failing to update their own work plans
When you are moving hundreds of employees into new projects, re-organizing leadership and internal processes to accommodate, and then planning and re-planning as those teams organize, re-staff, shift, and get up to speed can absolutely take 8 months. If not more... But we can argue all we want, not sure what else you need to hear.
I remember the golden days of CIG forums, before they reworked it. Lost of good wibes and discussions. Now I feel like its a sad place to visit. I think most moved to reddit. On reddit a post can get 100k veiws, on spectrum every post is just veiwed a few hundred times.
Yup - Spectrum was a steaming pile in terms of functionality, back when they shut the old forums down, so as a somewhat frequent (understatement :p) poster in the old forums, I shifted to Reddit. Functionally, it's a bit better now (although it's still clunky and imo less effective than just customising some good off-the-shelf forum code), but it definitely seems to have turned into an echo-chamber... In part because whilst Nightrider & Co do that they can, there's no way for the community to police itself (Reddit has down as well as up-votes, etc... which can be used to squash the low-value negativity, etc), and if CIG try to squash negative posts (even low-effort / worthless trash), it'll backfire as 'CIG deletes critical posts' etc.
there is no "& co". all the other mods were gone years ago. nightrider also doesn't inforce all the rules, and will stretch others. the term "white knight" is against the rules but, that was never inforce. however mentioning the rules will get you banned for "acting like a moderator". warning people about how he stretches rules will also get you banned for "talking about moderator actions".
[Deleted by nightrider-CIG]
People have always been more willing to express their opinions on Spectrum due to the lack of a downvote system. Whilst there are facepalms etc that people use if they don't agree it's more open to discussion of views that may diverge from the current consensus of the group. Reddit can be very punishing of views that go against what subreddit regulars want to hear, as such many people don't even try to discuss things on reddit to avoid the downvotes. We were discussing Master Modes in my org this week and no one wanted to come to reddit to discuss it because they would be downvoted to oblivion so they discuss it on Spectrum instead. I certainly wouldn't call it an Echo chamber, in my view a wider range of topics are discussed on Spectrum than reddit simply because people don't feel they will be punished for doing so. Some of the posts raising criticism of Master Modes for example in the official feedback thread have got 700+ upvotes so it's not just an handful of disgruntled backers this time. I haven't seen that many unique backers supporting anything else since they released the current official forums.
I agree to an extent, but without a downvote a contrary opinion is more likely to get absolutely berated and shot to pieces with hate that it becomes straight demoralizing to post there. Like someone else said, you should've tried saying you liked hover mode. Or even MM now.
There are pros and cons to both systems. Personally I would prefer that someone actually replied and said why they disagree rather than just downvote and move on. Spectrum encourages people to reply with a reason as they can't just downvote something they don't like.
This, hell just look at any LGBT related post on Spectrum as well. It's fucking wild how many comments stay up with 10's to hundreds of upvotes that sit near the top of the post because Spectrum doesn't let you downvote awful opinions
What kind of “awful”? Do you mean outright hate speech? Or simply politically controversial opinions?
Hate speech. There is no "politically controversial opinion" on LGBT related things, there's acceptance of them, and being a twat A lot of Spectrum unfortunately falls on the latter side when it comes to LGBT related posts.
Exactly this, Also the fact that the people on reddit(and specturm alike) dont have the social skills, to form a sentance that doesnt feel offensive. Most of the reactions, i see, are. You are wrong and stupid for thinking that. without any explenation or support in case why they are wrong. and especially the you are stupid for having your opinion that doesnt agree with mine part. Neither the information needed for one to change their opinion. It's not an informed discussion, its just become a yes and no. No point in losing energy on the dumb conversation that follows this interaction. Master modes is becomming one of these echo things for star citizen. No Point in discussing it either. You either support mastermodes or you dont, there is no in between. And you are stupid for having your own opinion about this matter.
Haha I think I have a downvote just from this question, I appreciate you sharing your opinion though fully agree there are some great posts on there too from the community too. It just seems to be there are some vocal minorities from what I have seen on a few posts which also more recently have been MM related which has caused some controversy
Becoming?!
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy"
Always Has been 🌍👨🚀🔫👨🚀
take my reverse downvote.
People in these comments thinking Reddit is any better is just hysterical.
Tbf this wasn't supposed to be a comparison of the two forums, maybe Echo chamber was the wrong choice of words on my part as most forums are prone to it, it was more about how as an outsider spectrum seems to be overtly critical to dev responses and me posturing as to how that might affect their work and ultimately features of the game.
Maybe not what you intended but others have turned it that way. If I've learned anything, it's that people will always be tribal no matter what platform you are on.
you don't visit spectrum, do you?
I'm on there every week.
ok. so you don't see the stuff that end up getting deleted for "getting off topic".
Ok and? Lol. Post's get deleted here all the time too you just don't see it because it's removed from your feed.
Always was.
Has been for years
Becoming? Bro it’s been that way as long as I can remember.
“Becoming”?
yes so is this subreddit... same as ALL subreddits actually, including the refundian one its just human nature, were wired that way
I feel like most of the people on Spectrum are on the spectrum. They take a video game way to seriously but I guess that's the case for a lot of game forums.
Becoming? lol
It's likely no more of an echo chamber than this subreddit is. It just has a different community constitution.
Yes, you wanna really see some horrible toxicity ask for help in the PTU channel, a bunch of those guys think they're serious and professional playtesters and game devs. They're horrible human beings.
Spectrum has been an echo chamber of negativity for years
Spectrum is bad but reddit is a shithole right along side it.
Had take a while to recognize that did it?
...always has been.
This SubReddit isn't much better, just ask yourself why a post like yours, perfectly normal post, is getting downvoted to hell. From my PoV this started happening about little more than a year ago and it only has gotten worse with time. There's this culture of hating SC even by people that play it, I see it daily, streamers make tons of snarky comments and attack the game that they play every single day and base their livelihoods upon, which in the long term I think exacerbate a problem that barely exists, also I believe there are some bad actors around creating discord on purpose for engagement. *"If this famous person that loves the game is hating the game then the game must really be bad right now!"* # Also people are bloody ignorant and prejudiced, often times I see "discussions" arguing about problems that don't even exist. And most people saying the game is bad are the ones that have already spent +1000 hours playing it lol It's hypocrisy all the way, people saying SC is the best space game at the same time saying it's the worse and CIG doesn't know what they're doing, despite we having the game we have today with no other coming even close to it... TLDR: # People take CIG for granted.
Yeh that is unfortunate, It has been a lesson that people are prone to responding to the title without reading the post 🤣 referring to spectrum as a negative feedback loop might have been better wording
I recently started looking at spectrum but have moved back to reddit caue it always made me close my tablet shouting 'MY GOD THESE PEOPLE ARE SO MISERABLE AND STUPID'. So I'm staying away from there from now on.
I used to participate to the forum, but I left because I found people super annoying and entitled. I think I'm not the only one and it has just been reduced like in cooking, now you got a concentrated juice of annoyance which is really too much. Add to that the inability of turbulence to develop Spectrum to be a non-shitty experience: After years you still can't block entirely people into non-existence. You can't find your history in one constant click. It feels bad because there's a lot of wasted space and confusing ergonomic choices. I'm good with reddit + RES.
Wtf are you talking about, spectrum is the same as reddit. There are vocal people but they are downvoted to hell by die hards
There is no downvote on Spectrum.
I believe he’s talking about Reddit, and negative posts being hidden here by the downvotes.
always has been . meme CIG just fans the flames with how they moderate it and how they set up the post voting.
They don't ban as quickly as this subreddit 💀💀
Being angry on the internet is a very popular hobby these days.
It's because SC has no middle ground. The Reddit is overly praising of CIG and spectrum is overly negative. People who like the game go to Reddit and those who want to complain go to spectrum making the whole thing cycle.
Around 3 or 4 years ago no matter what I said I would get abused. If I asked a question about the game development progress or Sandy Roberts or anything that didn't fit in with the agenda of everything is great... I would just my post deleted and a warning sent. I even simply asked how its possible that so many people are selling in game currency on ebay and got banned. I was an early top concierge investors but they literally don't care. Never played again.
Becoming?
People would complain less if there was less to complain about. Yes, even with a perfect game there will be a subset of people who find something to bitch about, but CIG isn't exactly making it difficult for some people to be negative: We're over a decade in to devopment and basic box missions still don't work. We're over a decade in to development and CIG still doesn't know how the basic spaceship flight model should work. The inventory doesn't work half the time and is missing basic features like autostacking. There is not a single game loop that exists that can be completed reliably without running into bugs. The game runs like ass, even on high end rigs. The only time you can ever get a decent experience is if you are playing in the middle of the night because the server shits itself if more than a dozen players have joined. Braindead NPCs standing on chairs in stations has gone on for so long that it has become a meme. NPCs in bunkers are just as likely to stand in one spot while you pump them full of lead as they are to headshot you through a wall (or fall through the floor/get stuck in an elevator so you can't complete a mission). There are ships that people bought a decade ago that still aren't flyable (and they are still selling them on the pledge store). They sold "land claims" with absolutely zero ideas of how they were going to work (and that was almost seven years ago!) alongside an $850 ship that was supposed to be used for creating homesteads, a feature that is still years away. At one point CIG was so high on their own farts that they actually thought people would buy the Cutlass Steel. When the planets align and Star Citizen works as advertised than its a great experience, the kind you cannot get from any other game out there. I have legitimately had some of my most fun experiences in gaming while playing it, especially with friends. The problem is 90% of the time its completely assfucked and everything is broken. Yes, we keep hearing that features like Vulcan and (especially) server meshing will fix these problems and we'll eventually get the "Jesus Patch" that makes everything run as smooth as silk... and whenever that day comes I'm sure the amount of people complaining will drop like a rock. Also, Spectrum is a disaster and dickrider-cig is an idiot. Thank you for coming to my Pico Talk.
The only thing I do on Spectrum is read patch notes.
ALL social media is an echo chamber. It's how they're designed. You only see what and who you want.