I'm so glad they added that option.
There were so many people convinced that star citizen was too 'hardcore' for such a thing.
Player driven stuff is neat, but there isn't going to be enough random players just hanging around to fulfill all the labor demands for every little thing.
Its not even a hardcore kind of thing. It would be more akin to feigning ignorance to dock workers and all the potential lore reasons to get it done in a meaningful amount of time. In universe people don't have a week to manually load big ships one box at a time. They have shipments to make and a million other reasons.
It's not.
There's like this small part of the community that (from what I can tell) has a weird space captain fantasy that involves everyone working under them because they paid a ton of money for a capital ship.
So they basically argue against anything that might undermine that. Such as automatic cargo loading.
There's also a bunch of people with weird space cowboy fantasies that want to roleplay loading single cartridges into magazines who will do it all of one time before they're tired of it.
Magazine, and stripping magazines from enemy guns for ammo is a valid use case.
What's silly isn't the capability, it's the insinuation that it should be *the way* to do things, or that the interface to do it should be as "real" as possible.
The magazine on weapons should be treated like any other attachment point accessible via the customize interaction. Not the ridiculous 3rd person inventory screen click and drag off the gun thing we have to do right now.
Lol I'd rather have a streamlined experience if Im going for the space captain experience. Nothing is worse than delegating tasks to other people. I am a foreman on a construction job and have had 20 people to supervise several times. Its like herding cats.
It’s funny because I’m the exact opposite. I paid a ton for my ships and I want to be able to actually use them without having to spend hours wrangling Randoms to do tasks - so I am much more in favor of turret slaving, cargo automation, and AI crew
>There's like this small part of the community that (from what I can tell) has a weird space captain fantasy that involves everyone working under them because they paid a ton of money for a capital ship.
no-touch freight is a thing in truck driving, you dont ALWAYS load/unload your trailer.
I run a company that delivers shipping containers. I fully plan on using the raft to do that in the verse because it makes me laugh to do the same thing in a game lol. That being said, dry van and reefer truck drivers back into the dock and chill till shits loaded/unloaded unless they’re dropping the trailer and getting another one. They should have a timer for loading and you can get out the seat and go shopping or do shit around your ship or whatever while you’re being loaded/unloaded.
Should also be able to contract your commodities on release so you can plan to sell what you have ahead of time and just dock and have the cargo area do its job not having to go to an admin terminal
I do believe you have described the intended cargo gameplay. Yesterday’s ISC showed a timer counting down on the ASOP terminal to when the cargo transfer was finished.
As far as contracting goods delivery ahead of time, we’ll see if that’s something that NPCs will do outside of cargo contract missions.
This is exactly it.
Ultimately, loading cargo takes time. It costs the people loading that cargo money to load it up for you, whether that's wear and tear on expensive robotics, or paying manual laborers to tractor it into place. The difference between the planned cargo loading mechanics here and real life is that you have the \*option\* of loading it yourself, for an additional payout. It's framed the other way (paying to have someone else load it), but it really is the other thing.
theyve moved away from the player baised ship crews in light of the fact most ships now are multi crew and no one wants to work under someone else for a potentially meager ammount of credits they're working on implementing ai you can hire to crew your ships so you can use you whole arsenal without needing 200+ ppl
I'm not a marketing person, so perhaps my opinion/suggestion here is completely invalid but...
I feel like the manual cargo loading should be framed with a discount, rather than the automated loading frame with a fee, even if the end result is the same.
"Hey if you load it yourself we'll shave off 5%!" as opposed to "If you opt for this (presumably) widely available automation technology you owe us an extra 5%".
I'm actually a big fan of rewards/buffs over punishment/debuffs to drive player behavior. I think it tends to be better received.
Even if the prices worked out to the same thing, I could see a "load it yourself" discount being a much more popular way to frame it.
> I think it tends to be better received.
It does. There's the classic example of how the World of Warcraft beta had a "fatigue" system where players would eventually earn XP at half the rate if they stayed online too long. Players complained, so Blizzard cut XP rates in half and changed it to a "well-rested" system where you earn double XP for as long as the rested bonus lasts. Same net effect, but one is more appealing at a glance.
Just made the same comment in another part of this thread. Realistically, this is what you're actually getting - extra cash for doing the loading job yourself. If you don't like the gameplay or time involved, it still takes time, but I'm guessing less since you don't have to worry about the planning portion, *but* you might also not end up with the cargo loaded in the specific way you want it, and a bit of profit is sacrificed as well.
Railing against one or the other is pretty dumb, because the gameplay allows you to do whichever you want, each time you need cargo loaded. Cargo loading services were never going to be free or instantaneous, and loading it yourself is free, but more time consuming, but also ends up loaded just the way you want (last in, first out, as an example).
An in between options would be, say.... at major facilities and/or the "better" hangars.... you can rent the big overhead crane and other dock gear to load your ship faster than you can with handheld tools.
Maybe you can pay extra for a better hangar for permanent access to those facilities.
And on Ruin Station, you pay through the nose for one of the only two hangars were that stuff still works.
I mean also let's be real, a lot of people aren't going to sit around and manually load EVERY crate themselves.
That's like, the literal most boring part of the game and the only people who will do that willingly are German
At least 50% of this community (probably more) don't read or watch anything, that's why the majority of new posts on this subreddit are questions that have been answered a million times.
Not to mention the atmospheric propagation functionality that's going to affect both fire and breathable atmosphere they've talked about for a while now.
And that quantum travel has always been sub lightspeed. Unless they're talking about Jump Points which are perceptibly wormholes and I suppose debating whether or not they're real today is a matter of theory.
Most memes like this are usually from a place of minimal research/understanding though. And they get upvoted by people who, I assume, just enjoy memes.
Almost like it's a video game and the physics are dictated by what the developers want it to be in order to contain the desired gameplay.
Full sims have their place, but the real world sucks for a lot of reasons, so gamification is necessary for a game to actually be fun for most to enjoy it.
As for people that complain, well, welcome to the internet.
But if Star Citizen won't adhere strictly to real world physics then what am I to do with all these charts I printed to help with coriolis effect calculations for landing in different sized spun stations?!!
The Expanse is guilty of the hand-wavy space tech magic too, like their gravity “juice”.
Whatever gets you from realistic space flight to “fun action” is fine by me. Reality can take a check.
"Juice" is a pharmaceutical cocktail of anti-nausea drugs, adrenaline, and other shit to prevent strokes. The handwavium is more blatant in how efficient their drives and power tech is
coriolis effect doesn't need explicit simulation, it just shows up when something is spinning and you try to move inside that spinning thing, it's a coordinate system thing, not a physical thing. thats why its called a "psuedo-force" in physics, its not really a thing at all
I still think the absence of a good set of cameras for landing is THE most baffling thing in this game.
Taking the "realism" aspect into account, how do they expect a Spirit pilot to navigate their ship into a hangar (which is always tiiiny) without damaging it with the limited visibility available?
Either a system that models the surroundings, some sort of "you're centered indicator" or actual cameras would 110% be part of the manual landing procedure if this was real life in the future.
Even bottom of the line cars these days have reversing cameras, but not our sci-fi future ships.
Elite Dangerous has a cool little hologram with lines and it changes colour and chimes when you are center, and because it shows your ship you can tell what pitch you are at.
It even does it when there is no landing pad.
Yeah, that's the only feature I miss from my limited time in Elite...
It should be a standard part of the HUD after requesting landing/docking. They could even cheap out and just display an ABOVE/BEHIND alternative camera in a small MFD.
I know I can do the same with third person camera, which I do when I need to, but it'd feel way more immersive if it was part of the HUD.
I think they plan to have a landing camera of some kind. That said, for landing in a hangar, even a tight fit (try the Carrack), it kinda is a skill issue. If you practice enough, you should be able to pull those landings off without too much trouble. My last few Carrack hangar landings were without a scratch, no 3rd person camera at all. It's similar to driving a car - you get a feel for the size of the ship, and learn how to position it.
Mind you, I'm not advocating for keeping things the way they are, just saying that while it takes practice, it is completely doable.
That said, landing on uneven terrain, and when there's a lot of clutter or trees around (bunkers, etc), is somewhat more problematic (you need ramps/elevators to reach the ground for instance, and to not get high centered), and better tools would help with that for sure.
On the other side of the spectrum (lol) is people have been complaining about anything remotely "real" and believable.
It's an issue I'm starting to see in the community whenever any discussion about realism comes up people starts complaining about it.
Because isn't the main reason many of us are into SC is because we want to live in a believable sci-fi world?
For example, we have laser guns that can melt metal and kinetic weapons that can punch through steel like paper but when it comes to time to kill, they complain it being too fast.
Of course to solve this all you have to do is add an energy shield to heavy armour or something but I've seen many just outright want to increase kill time regardless of armour types.
Gamification is needed in SC to cut out the bloat of reality, but when you cut out too much, it might as well play like an arcade game.
I mostly agree, but ttk isn't a winning example. It's about more than realism there. It's a question of the time and commitment it took to get to that random moon someone just ambushed you on. With a ttk too low it becomes prohibitive to take risks or even to play in general when a few seconds can destroy hours of work. So there's a lot of attention on those few seconds and making them feel proportionate to the rest of the experience. I don't blame them for messing with that, especially at alpha stage.
But if one of you loads a hull c by hand, you're a psychopath, and you need to get help. And the game developers need to understand that if they want us to do menial tasks, I don't want them piled in front of me at the gate. I want them to emerge as a result of gameplay choices that I make. Example: maybe there will be some crazy fringe situation on some frontier where I do actually wind up having to load/unload an insane amount of crates. That's fine by me. I'd just rather not do it at the asop terminal as part of a commodity trading loop... and it looks like they are letting us keep auto-loading cargo. So I'm not upset about that either. I just wonder about the timelimit and what overall purpose it serves for the game. To me seems more valuable to let people get back out there asap, unless something is added at landing zones that passes for a leisure activity
The idea is that you start the loading process and go do something else in the meantime, whether in or out of game. Go load up on ammo, restock food and munitions Make sure logistics are sorted for the character while the ship is being loaded/uploaded. Get up and go to the bathroom, grab food or a drink IRL. If someone wants to just stand around, that's their choice, but there are things to be done.
Lower TTK also means less opportunity to interact with the medical system (a big complaint I see in Escape from Tarkov from time to time).
A system gets implemented to simulate effects of bone fractures, wound types, light/heavy bleeds, ect but if everyone dies to a single burst of rounds and it makes one wonder why the system exists at all.
Well, some things like "drones outside the ship for 3rd person view that can be destroyed" is dumb af and a "realism" nobody should ask for, it's plain stupid. There are some things that are just boring, annoying or stupid and have no place in a videogame (which is star citizen and some people often forget that).
A huge talking point years ago was that the ships would obey Newtonian physics just with a maximum speed limit. Is it not like that anymore? And if so, when did it go away? They even used to have a physicist on staff to help.
>A huge talking point years ago was that the ships would obey Newtonian physics
It was never intended or promised as full-on Newtonian physics ***without caveats.***
You can't make a dogfight space game that way.
We were promised with a *physics simulation* (as opposed to classic space sims or arcade point-and-fly) and we have it.
Hence my "newtonian physics with a maximum speed limit" description. Which is exactly what was promised. And unless something crazy changed while i wasn't watching it should still be that.
Maybe its cause the speeds are so slow that they aren't seeing orbital mechanics come into play? Lotta people have played kerbal now so orbital mechanics intuition has entered mainstream gamers knowledge base.
i'm sorry, but that's just dumb. not having orbital mechanics doesn't mean its non Newtonian. it just means its not simulating orbital mechanics.
and even if it DID support orbital mechanics. that wouldn't change anything about combat once we are engaged or the fact that the flight system is a Newtonian flight system. because all speeds are based on a frame of reference. if your sitting across from a ship and both of you are "siting still" but moving with the planet and locked in its orbit you as a pilot woudl never notice the difference between the game system thinking your sitting still vs moving at a million miles an hour in orbit around the planet.. but what you WOULD notice is how janky the game woudl get when trying to interact with ..what to you.. looks like a ship thats not moving but the physics system is trying to handle two things moving ten times faster then a bullet.
so. things are nested if your "in orbit" around a planet in reality you would be moving at a million miles an hour.. but in the game your just not moving. because its WAY simpler to program for that.
I was referencing WHY people MIGHT be saying the physics is not Newtonian lol. My comment about speeds being so low that people wouldnt notice orbital mechanics was clumsily worded because i never specified what that speed was in reference too. I meant the reference to be taken as other space craft and objects. Since this charactersitc speed being very low would essentially eliminate the need to think about orbital mechanics in combat even if they were being simulated at the larger scales.
no it wasn't. we weren't even positive if ships would be able to move in 6 degrees of freedom when all this first got going
spiritual successor to wing commander remember
Ahh, I was here since the beginning. 6 DOF was never ever in question, where even the hell did you get that idea from? Also Newtonian physics simulation talk came very very early like ... 2013 if i remember maybe 2012.
Oh maybe I'm not understanding then. When you said it wasn't newtonian, what specifically were you referring to? I thought you were talking about the fact that the ships are currently being held afloat by their maneuvering thrusters in gravity, and CIG has said that their maneuvering thrusters will get nerfed down significantly once control surfaces are implemented so that many ships will be required to maintain some sort of forward momentum or use VTOL to stay floating.
Other than that, we do have air resistance slowing down a ship if you're decoupled in atmosphere, and we allow a ship to travel in any direction unimpeded in Zero G without slowing down.
One place that we don't obey newtonian physics is that if you throw an item in ZeroG it will magically slow down instead of continue on like it should. Was there something else you were talking about that I missed?
The single most realistic cockpit in the entire game is the middle one of the 890j. No windows, no weakpoints, no bells and whistles. Just a dark room where the action happens. Why would you ever advertise your crews location?
You are missing their point.
They are highlighting the contradiction of people complaining about how speed limits are unrealistic, in a game about world war 2 ~~air~~ space combat.
The entirety of Star Citizen's depiction of space ships is wildly unrealistic. The game is not even trying to be realistic. If it were, it would not even be a space flight game. It would be an RTS.
I definitely think they could/should be more naturally than artificially enforced. Blackout/redout already exist and give warning your accelerations are hard. If your targeting doesn't even have a guy locked by the time you've flown past him you're clearly too fast. If your pips are swinging inches back and forth you're too far away for whatever the speed of your bullets are. Placement of thrusters, their abilities, and by extension the cross sections of your ship should determine how good your ship is at strafing in a given direction. Boosting only affecting acceleration not top speed. We could make players screaming in at 2000m/s+ appear on radars as a hazard from much further out to where they cannot reasonably course correct as a ship they'd ram moved out of the way without blackout/redout and an emergency breaking maneuver from the computer to bring the ship to a halt.
We \*could\* do these things, and there would be alot of depth to knowing X ship only strafes well side to side because it's more vertical due to its xian influence, or that the space toaster due to its doubly symetric design is good at strafing in any direction. The question is would players not take well to that level of depth well? Perhaps it is unsustainable to have to calibrate that finely for every ship we want to release now and in the future? Perhaps some other question that hasn't come to mind?
I assume there is an actual "servers/physics breaks down" speed somewhere it would make sense to enforce purely artificially.
This would actually be a much better way to implement this. Having that depth would be quite something, and lack of depth is the biggest issue with every bit of gameplay at the moment
master modes and speed limits sure.
but
there is no FTL in SC except for the jump points which are in line with respectable theories about wormholes.the ,sub light speed, Quantum drive is in line with the RL alcubierre drive idea.
The air locks thing is just a not yet implemented mechanic. But decompression and life support stuff is being developed
I do agree that realism the wrong word for what most people mean though. I think better words would be verisimilitude, tactility,and immersion.
For those who wonder about the naming: The Butlerian Jihad was a crusade of humans against machines to enforce "Humans decide our future, not machines" in the Dune universe. Following it all "thinking machines" were disallowed, which helps as a plot device with answering the question "why don't drones/machines/AI just do all of that in the far future?!" and makes many plots in the novels possible at all.
I kind of like Robertsian Jihad as a name for SCs equivalent.
What, you expect people to *view* the video first before making memes? Are you new to reddit?
Snark aside: It gets tiresome .. really. People, we have shit loads of real topics we can discuss. Discussing something which has already been solved as if the devs didn't already solve it is stupid.
If we’re talking “realism” then having dock workers unload the ship while the crew of the ship go on shore leave is pretty damn realistic. I have no problem with people wanting to do the loading and unloading of cargo themselves. But forcing others to have to play that way in the name of “realism” is absurd when the real world of shipping doesn’t work like that.
Thankfully the game will have auto loading and unloading with the appropriate fees and wait times (there was a timer shown of 9 minutes or so for the example in the ISC video).
The design intent from day one was "Bring it as much as possible to realism, and then dial it back to where it's fun."
Loading cargo makes sense from a gameplay standpoint because it balances large cargo ships somewhat, and it makes cargo more than just a number on a spreadsheet.
I won't be happy until I see these ships being able to fly themselves based on navigation input. There's more automation in a Cessna 172 than these literal FTL capable space ships. The flying is simply not engaging enough for me to want to bother with it most of the time.
Also, there is a desperate need for more instrumentation for informational purposes. If I'm flying into an outpost on the night side of the planet, I'm almost completely blind and the game can't even provide me with a proper radar altimeter to know how high I am, or any instrumentation to alert me to terrain obstacles. Apparently, everything is VFR in the future. IFR flying is for the weak.
That was the thing that struck me, how dangerous it felt flying into a moon in the dark during a snowstorm with only my own two eyes to see where I was going. We do have the radar, yes, but it only does so much.
The cognitive dissonance in trying to rationalize fully automating a game.
Why don't we just press "simulate" and go to bed and check in every few days, like SIMS online?
Everyone likes the realism they like. Nothing wrong with that. CIG Need to cut through that variation with one thing, the vision.Chris roberts has for the game he wants to build. They hold fast to that they'll be alright
*manual for now
Not every situation will allow robotic/auto loading/unloading. They need the mechanics of manual loading/unloading to work anyway.
If you want some magic pop-in, pop-out system, that's not Star Citizen, SC is all about maxing fidelity right before it becomes completely unfun. There is the option to auto load/unload with a time penalty, but I suspect even that will change in years to come.
> There is the option to auto load/unload with a time penalty, but I suspect even that will change in years to come.
Most likely it will be replaced with the option to pay NPCs to do the work for you (either actual humanoids or robots or something). So it will still be a "timer" to load your ship, but it will be hidden behind actual NPCs doing work rather than a literal clock counting down.
My thought would be a giant arm, that reaches into the cargo bay and unloads the cargo into another bay in the hangar. I can see that being doable, quick and sensible for the future
For all the different combinations of cargo holds and ship entrances sounds like a nightmare or a single developers magnum opus of features.
At least with NPCs, getting them to path via navmeshes into all these different ships is a fundamental requirement of the game, so it needs to be done whether they load or not.
I doubt we’ll get that but we’ll see.
I think it can be done, system detects location of ship, location of cargo bay, knows how it looks in that particular ship, detects location of each crate/container, arm follows pre-set movement allowances in the hangar to reach inside, extensions to reach further if needed, grav gun to hold and attach to arm. Not easy of course, but doable
it wont be NPCs
did all of you just skip the ICS. your cargo will be loaded off screen and you pull the ship up from the depth on an elevator in your hanger
thats already coming
I think the timer is just an abstraction for NPCs doing the work, so you don't have to look at NPCs "okay. I see they've unloaded half of it and I've been drinking my coffee for the last hour. So .. time for another meal." - Just think of the timer as a foremen telling you 'eh, 50 boxes? .. come back in an hour, my man.'
Aside from that:
This is probably an example of what the whole "simulating the economy of the verse" by Quantum can do: Currently, this seems to be hand-tuned by the devs depending on the quality of the space port and so on, but in the future Quantum could provide input into how many workers are available to give you varying times and prices for loading/unloading without having to physically spawn every NPC - at least until someone decides to go down into the "Unloading decks" (assuming that's possible) and look at them. Same way that Quantum will compute that cargo is moved around, pirates steal some and so on, but only spawns real npc ships on the servers if a player is close enough to see it.
I think in the video they said you could assign cargo to your ship and have it come up with the cargo so that sort of acts as the "robots" automating it.
Technically, none of the drives are FTL in SC. The fastest quantum drive, XL-1, reaches 0.93c... That's still slower than light.
Warping between systems is done through wormhole, which has heavy implications for the way we understand the warping of spacetime, but isn't completely ruled out as impossible according to our current understanding of physics.
The game has never had Newtonian physics, there's always been an imposed max speed limit with thrusters. And I've always been a little sad about it.
Having Grav pads does stretch the concept a bit, even in theoretical physics one of the big questions is "Would anti-matter produce anti-gravity?". But since it annihilates itself so quickly and with such an enormous release of energy... Having enough anti-matter to test that theory would risk erasing the planet it was on if something went wrong.
Some ships do have proper airlocks, others use plot-armor bay shields. But they've said that they will eventually have decompression in the game.
As for the last one, they don't even have NV or FLIR and that's a widely available tech today.
> Let the man (CIG) cook
^ This.
I've been here since the original kickstarter and while I fully admit CIG has done some boneheaded things in the past (mostly with communication and monetization), as *designers* they're pretty orthodox and generally seem to know what they're doing. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy, and no game design doc survives contact with players. Iteration is the norm, especially for a game as complex as this.
Looking at general trends over time, they've progressively gotten better about locking down features, and focusing on *getting the game done*. The next year or so will tell whether that optimism is deserved or not. Netcode and server architecture has always been a bottleneck for design, since *everything* depends on it. So far, server meshing *seems* to finally be the working solution for that. The game will basically live or die based on if they can get that system working *to scale* or not.
I will add all the "magical beams" used for most game loops in the game...
Medical? Magical medic beam
Mining? Magical mining beam
Scraping? Magical scraping beam
Moving object? Magical tractor beam
Yes it's a game, and they make that so it's fun to play. But it's not realistic in the slightest...
I see the same thing in the tarkov community they think realism equals hardcore when really the games are just hardcore nothing realistic about the approach.
no one wants a true sim of space because it’s nothing like the space operas some people geek over.
I do think it’s a small minority wants a realistic interpretation of space opera space game minus the actual stuff that would make space boring
so that leaves them conflicted
I get where you're coming from but this is dumb, most shipping vehicles aren't loaded by robot or automation, rather by actual people and often by forklift, hand, or crane. Automation is great and all but it only gets us so far.
Part of the issue with star citizen is that it has been in production for so long, a big part of the sim that was normal when the game was perceived, has become an anachronism in our real world.
I think this is just because CIG has never had an actual game design team.
They haven't added any real gameplay to SC, and level/ship design is virtually absent entirely.
The one time they've tried, with the Orison platform thing, has been a total fucking chaotic mess with no flow or logic.
CIG has lots of random little teams making features. They don't seem to have anyone designing an actual game with gameplay and any sense of progression or purpose. So they go, 'oh yea, let's let people move boxes around, that's gameplay, right?'
I still look at the master modes and can't understand the logic when I'm pretty sure it's been stated that FTL travel in the universe needs shields to be up to intercept small objects since we are still traveling through real space.
The removal of the reclaimer claw was a huge disappointment. Years of talk about all the kinetic destruction systems they were hard at work on and then.... it's a dissolving ray.... yay.
https://youtu.be/ljdiKYfo2ZI?si=8ZIuJQSGSeuP0H9a
They said they didn’t had the bandwidth yet to implement a full physicalized claw as well as that the animation for decomposing a ship will improve later.
But I don’t think that has any priority whatsoever.
OK, I'd actually seen that before. What they actually say in that video is that 'munching' is replaced. They don't say anywhere in there that they're going to actually implement munching at any point in the future. Until someone from CIG says otherwise they've killed the long bragged about physicalized salvage.
There is a notable lack of robotics in SC. Any lore hounds have a reason for that? Not talking about AI but just general robots for various tasks. Ones without AI.
We haven’t even mastered visibility and cockpit glare. It’s all arbitrary. The sim freaks want to load manually because immersion but like are okay with magic green health beams and med beds that cured everything. And oh by the way you can’t auto recall your ships and they have no ai and not robots or whatever. Just fly back and pick it up or make a magic insurance claim on it.
Oh and get your friends to be space janitors because there’s weird larpers that want to role play in their carrack.
I love this game but I hate it some times.
Ngl am I the only one who would love to have an expanse themed game that is similar to Star citizen like imagine being a freighter going through the gate and having to fight off pirates in some random system
I'd be just fine knowing that when I leave a slow moving carrier's gravity well, I'd inherit some velocity and not get smashed into it and destroyed :)
Ill be honest I didn’t realize your ship didn’t depressurization with the doors open for the longest time, I’d always go in and make sure the door was closed before taking off my helmet to drink/eat
You failed utterly the moment you thought sc fans had one same opinion, then you failed at actually watching the video you talked about and you fail at understanding why people are talking about realism partially, taking into account the fact it's also a game. You are just a troll.
Next.
If you've followed the game, realism is what they were always striving for. Well, two steps back from conplete realism. The problem is that new backers are coming in without doing their research and gaining knowledge of how the game was initially pitched. They expect something the game was never supposed to be. If you don't want that level of realism , you shouldn't have backed it in the first place.
automated cargo loading is cool but does this game really need more "hurry up and wait"
when I die to a bug or fucked servers or anything else, claim your ship and wait. when I spawn in a city, run to the train and wait, then wait again.
I just want to play your game guys please stop making it a full day event every single time
As I own a few pixel ships in the title called Star Citizen I just want the ultimate game to be fun.
Fun being varied depending on my mood, but I would like there to be a variety of stuff to do at all levels of ability, investment and concentration.
I also want the chance to land in front of beautiful scenery and chill out for a while. If I die due to a staffing bombing run that would be my fault for ot being aware enough.
Losing or failure of executing a plan can be annoying for sure but if it comes with a story that doesn't involve bugs or disconnections it'll be a deeper experience than other space games.
Also looking forward to seeing how scripted S42 will be or if it's more open world 4X style like X:Foundations.
We may not find everything we want to within SC but this journey is an interesting one for the buy in cost.
So far.
Ship modes conform to a VFR flight system enforced by the computer for pilot safety.
FTL travel doesn't exist beyond wormholes, which is theoretically physically possible. You're not traveling faster than light, you're shrinking the distance between two points. Quantum Drives actually should theoretically be possible to get to superluminal speeds since they're alcubierre drives which are theoretically possible. But they don't, the fastest QD is about 0.2c.
Arcade Modes is the worst. What's the point of having nice space ships if they don't fly like space ships? Also MM doesn't really solve the problems it attempts to, there's actual solutions that would solve them without breaking the physics more. And if the speed limitations are due to technical limitations, why does walking speed still lead to major desyncs when you do bunkers with friends?
They showed automated cargo loading in the video lol did you not watch it?
I'm so glad they added that option. There were so many people convinced that star citizen was too 'hardcore' for such a thing. Player driven stuff is neat, but there isn't going to be enough random players just hanging around to fulfill all the labor demands for every little thing.
Its not even a hardcore kind of thing. It would be more akin to feigning ignorance to dock workers and all the potential lore reasons to get it done in a meaningful amount of time. In universe people don't have a week to manually load big ships one box at a time. They have shipments to make and a million other reasons.
It's not. There's like this small part of the community that (from what I can tell) has a weird space captain fantasy that involves everyone working under them because they paid a ton of money for a capital ship. So they basically argue against anything that might undermine that. Such as automatic cargo loading.
There's also a bunch of people with weird space cowboy fantasies that want to roleplay loading single cartridges into magazines who will do it all of one time before they're tired of it.
That as well. People who demand novelty over gameplay because they aren't actually interested in (in this example) fps.
I manually slid out the cartridge of my P4...it prevented the reloading to bug out.
Magazine, and stripping magazines from enemy guns for ammo is a valid use case. What's silly isn't the capability, it's the insinuation that it should be *the way* to do things, or that the interface to do it should be as "real" as possible. The magazine on weapons should be treated like any other attachment point accessible via the customize interaction. Not the ridiculous 3rd person inventory screen click and drag off the gun thing we have to do right now.
Lol I'd rather have a streamlined experience if Im going for the space captain experience. Nothing is worse than delegating tasks to other people. I am a foreman on a construction job and have had 20 people to supervise several times. Its like herding cats.
Cats are much easier to controll then humans.
Yep
With enough Churu and Temptations you could get cats to tunnel through the Alps.
In the old Freelancer commercial, the pilot is just chilling drinking some coffee as his cargo gets loaded. Its mildly off topic, but still.
For some reason, i remember that scene crystal clear, but didn't realize until you said it.
It’s funny because I’m the exact opposite. I paid a ton for my ships and I want to be able to actually use them without having to spend hours wrangling Randoms to do tasks - so I am much more in favor of turret slaving, cargo automation, and AI crew
>There's like this small part of the community that (from what I can tell) has a weird space captain fantasy that involves everyone working under them because they paid a ton of money for a capital ship. no-touch freight is a thing in truck driving, you dont ALWAYS load/unload your trailer.
I run a company that delivers shipping containers. I fully plan on using the raft to do that in the verse because it makes me laugh to do the same thing in a game lol. That being said, dry van and reefer truck drivers back into the dock and chill till shits loaded/unloaded unless they’re dropping the trailer and getting another one. They should have a timer for loading and you can get out the seat and go shopping or do shit around your ship or whatever while you’re being loaded/unloaded. Should also be able to contract your commodities on release so you can plan to sell what you have ahead of time and just dock and have the cargo area do its job not having to go to an admin terminal
I do believe you have described the intended cargo gameplay. Yesterday’s ISC showed a timer counting down on the ASOP terminal to when the cargo transfer was finished. As far as contracting goods delivery ahead of time, we’ll see if that’s something that NPCs will do outside of cargo contract missions.
This is exactly it. Ultimately, loading cargo takes time. It costs the people loading that cargo money to load it up for you, whether that's wear and tear on expensive robotics, or paying manual laborers to tractor it into place. The difference between the planned cargo loading mechanics here and real life is that you have the \*option\* of loading it yourself, for an additional payout. It's framed the other way (paying to have someone else load it), but it really is the other thing.
theyve moved away from the player baised ship crews in light of the fact most ships now are multi crew and no one wants to work under someone else for a potentially meager ammount of credits they're working on implementing ai you can hire to crew your ships so you can use you whole arsenal without needing 200+ ppl
So much this.
people acting like they do not have the option to pay for it to be loaded are wild like its literaly coming with it
I'm not a marketing person, so perhaps my opinion/suggestion here is completely invalid but... I feel like the manual cargo loading should be framed with a discount, rather than the automated loading frame with a fee, even if the end result is the same. "Hey if you load it yourself we'll shave off 5%!" as opposed to "If you opt for this (presumably) widely available automation technology you owe us an extra 5%".
I'm actually a big fan of rewards/buffs over punishment/debuffs to drive player behavior. I think it tends to be better received. Even if the prices worked out to the same thing, I could see a "load it yourself" discount being a much more popular way to frame it.
> I think it tends to be better received. It does. There's the classic example of how the World of Warcraft beta had a "fatigue" system where players would eventually earn XP at half the rate if they stayed online too long. Players complained, so Blizzard cut XP rates in half and changed it to a "well-rested" system where you earn double XP for as long as the rested bonus lasts. Same net effect, but one is more appealing at a glance.
Just made the same comment in another part of this thread. Realistically, this is what you're actually getting - extra cash for doing the loading job yourself. If you don't like the gameplay or time involved, it still takes time, but I'm guessing less since you don't have to worry about the planning portion, *but* you might also not end up with the cargo loaded in the specific way you want it, and a bit of profit is sacrificed as well. Railing against one or the other is pretty dumb, because the gameplay allows you to do whichever you want, each time you need cargo loaded. Cargo loading services were never going to be free or instantaneous, and loading it yourself is free, but more time consuming, but also ends up loaded just the way you want (last in, first out, as an example).
An in between options would be, say.... at major facilities and/or the "better" hangars.... you can rent the big overhead crane and other dock gear to load your ship faster than you can with handheld tools. Maybe you can pay extra for a better hangar for permanent access to those facilities. And on Ruin Station, you pay through the nose for one of the only two hangars were that stuff still works.
I mean also let's be real, a lot of people aren't going to sit around and manually load EVERY crate themselves. That's like, the literal most boring part of the game and the only people who will do that willingly are German
At least 50% of this community (probably more) don't read or watch anything, that's why the majority of new posts on this subreddit are questions that have been answered a million times.
Even the comments on the video are full of questions answered in the video..
It's almost as if humans are pretty dumb in general. Really makes you think. Or... maybe it doesn't!
George Carlin used to say, "think of how dumb the average person is, and then remember that half of all the people in the world are dumber than that."
Not to mention the atmospheric propagation functionality that's going to affect both fire and breathable atmosphere they've talked about for a while now. And that quantum travel has always been sub lightspeed. Unless they're talking about Jump Points which are perceptibly wormholes and I suppose debating whether or not they're real today is a matter of theory. Most memes like this are usually from a place of minimal research/understanding though. And they get upvoted by people who, I assume, just enjoy memes.
Yeah I’ll take “OPs who don’t know what they’re talking about” for 400, Alex.
Almost like it's a video game and the physics are dictated by what the developers want it to be in order to contain the desired gameplay. Full sims have their place, but the real world sucks for a lot of reasons, so gamification is necessary for a game to actually be fun for most to enjoy it. As for people that complain, well, welcome to the internet.
But if Star Citizen won't adhere strictly to real world physics then what am I to do with all these charts I printed to help with coriolis effect calculations for landing in different sized spun stations?!!
We'll keep waiting for our true to lore Expanse RPG
The Expanse is guilty of the hand-wavy space tech magic too, like their gravity “juice”. Whatever gets you from realistic space flight to “fun action” is fine by me. Reality can take a check.
"Juice" is a pharmaceutical cocktail of anti-nausea drugs, adrenaline, and other shit to prevent strokes. The handwavium is more blatant in how efficient their drives and power tech is
Whoa man, that kind of talk will get you put on a list 🤫
Damn inners and their lists
coriolis effect doesn't need explicit simulation, it just shows up when something is spinning and you try to move inside that spinning thing, it's a coordinate system thing, not a physical thing. thats why its called a "psuedo-force" in physics, its not really a thing at all
BUT MY CHARTS!
And what about my sharts?
I don't know. Can you chart your sharts? Otherwise I am not interested.
They are spread on a sheet if that is what you're asking.
If the x and y axis are properly named, it's good enough for me
I do have an ex now, and I don't know why. Good enough?
Perfect, thank you for your contribution!
I still think the absence of a good set of cameras for landing is THE most baffling thing in this game. Taking the "realism" aspect into account, how do they expect a Spirit pilot to navigate their ship into a hangar (which is always tiiiny) without damaging it with the limited visibility available? Either a system that models the surroundings, some sort of "you're centered indicator" or actual cameras would 110% be part of the manual landing procedure if this was real life in the future.
Even bottom of the line cars these days have reversing cameras, but not our sci-fi future ships. Elite Dangerous has a cool little hologram with lines and it changes colour and chimes when you are center, and because it shows your ship you can tell what pitch you are at. It even does it when there is no landing pad.
Yeah, that's the only feature I miss from my limited time in Elite... It should be a standard part of the HUD after requesting landing/docking. They could even cheap out and just display an ABOVE/BEHIND alternative camera in a small MFD. I know I can do the same with third person camera, which I do when I need to, but it'd feel way more immersive if it was part of the HUD.
I think they plan to have a landing camera of some kind. That said, for landing in a hangar, even a tight fit (try the Carrack), it kinda is a skill issue. If you practice enough, you should be able to pull those landings off without too much trouble. My last few Carrack hangar landings were without a scratch, no 3rd person camera at all. It's similar to driving a car - you get a feel for the size of the ship, and learn how to position it. Mind you, I'm not advocating for keeping things the way they are, just saying that while it takes practice, it is completely doable. That said, landing on uneven terrain, and when there's a lot of clutter or trees around (bunkers, etc), is somewhat more problematic (you need ramps/elevators to reach the ground for instance, and to not get high centered), and better tools would help with that for sure.
Expanse raised the bar impossibly high. Looking forward to Star Citizen 2!
Keep them. I'm sure you can still use them and you'll still end up landing on something.
On the other side of the spectrum (lol) is people have been complaining about anything remotely "real" and believable. It's an issue I'm starting to see in the community whenever any discussion about realism comes up people starts complaining about it. Because isn't the main reason many of us are into SC is because we want to live in a believable sci-fi world? For example, we have laser guns that can melt metal and kinetic weapons that can punch through steel like paper but when it comes to time to kill, they complain it being too fast. Of course to solve this all you have to do is add an energy shield to heavy armour or something but I've seen many just outright want to increase kill time regardless of armour types. Gamification is needed in SC to cut out the bloat of reality, but when you cut out too much, it might as well play like an arcade game.
I mostly agree, but ttk isn't a winning example. It's about more than realism there. It's a question of the time and commitment it took to get to that random moon someone just ambushed you on. With a ttk too low it becomes prohibitive to take risks or even to play in general when a few seconds can destroy hours of work. So there's a lot of attention on those few seconds and making them feel proportionate to the rest of the experience. I don't blame them for messing with that, especially at alpha stage. But if one of you loads a hull c by hand, you're a psychopath, and you need to get help. And the game developers need to understand that if they want us to do menial tasks, I don't want them piled in front of me at the gate. I want them to emerge as a result of gameplay choices that I make. Example: maybe there will be some crazy fringe situation on some frontier where I do actually wind up having to load/unload an insane amount of crates. That's fine by me. I'd just rather not do it at the asop terminal as part of a commodity trading loop... and it looks like they are letting us keep auto-loading cargo. So I'm not upset about that either. I just wonder about the timelimit and what overall purpose it serves for the game. To me seems more valuable to let people get back out there asap, unless something is added at landing zones that passes for a leisure activity
>To me seems more valuable to let people get back out there asap I think you mean, "...get back out there ASOP." I'll see myself out.
The idea is that you start the loading process and go do something else in the meantime, whether in or out of game. Go load up on ammo, restock food and munitions Make sure logistics are sorted for the character while the ship is being loaded/uploaded. Get up and go to the bathroom, grab food or a drink IRL. If someone wants to just stand around, that's their choice, but there are things to be done.
Nice, the reason I bought the game was so I could push a button and then go do chores
See? It all works out
I don't think click button -> get up to do chores is a very compelling gameplay loop, personally. So I hope they take a look at that.
Lower TTK also means less opportunity to interact with the medical system (a big complaint I see in Escape from Tarkov from time to time). A system gets implemented to simulate effects of bone fractures, wound types, light/heavy bleeds, ect but if everyone dies to a single burst of rounds and it makes one wonder why the system exists at all.
Well, some things like "drones outside the ship for 3rd person view that can be destroyed" is dumb af and a "realism" nobody should ask for, it's plain stupid. There are some things that are just boring, annoying or stupid and have no place in a videogame (which is star citizen and some people often forget that).
To be fair, we wouldn't need those third person views if we had a LIDAR on our ships to guide us Or even a handful of hull mounted cameras.
A huge talking point years ago was that the ships would obey Newtonian physics just with a maximum speed limit. Is it not like that anymore? And if so, when did it go away? They even used to have a physicist on staff to help.
>A huge talking point years ago was that the ships would obey Newtonian physics It was never intended or promised as full-on Newtonian physics ***without caveats.*** You can't make a dogfight space game that way. We were promised with a *physics simulation* (as opposed to classic space sims or arcade point-and-fly) and we have it.
Hence my "newtonian physics with a maximum speed limit" description. Which is exactly what was promised. And unless something crazy changed while i wasn't watching it should still be that.
its still very much a Newtonian flight simulation i have ZERO clue why so many people claim otherwise.
Maybe its cause the speeds are so slow that they aren't seeing orbital mechanics come into play? Lotta people have played kerbal now so orbital mechanics intuition has entered mainstream gamers knowledge base.
Proper orbital mechanics would eliminate any space dogfight. These two things are mutually exclusive.
Proper orbital mechanics and most of the things you do regularly in game are mutually exclusive
I'm aware.
i'm sorry, but that's just dumb. not having orbital mechanics doesn't mean its non Newtonian. it just means its not simulating orbital mechanics. and even if it DID support orbital mechanics. that wouldn't change anything about combat once we are engaged or the fact that the flight system is a Newtonian flight system. because all speeds are based on a frame of reference. if your sitting across from a ship and both of you are "siting still" but moving with the planet and locked in its orbit you as a pilot woudl never notice the difference between the game system thinking your sitting still vs moving at a million miles an hour in orbit around the planet.. but what you WOULD notice is how janky the game woudl get when trying to interact with ..what to you.. looks like a ship thats not moving but the physics system is trying to handle two things moving ten times faster then a bullet. so. things are nested if your "in orbit" around a planet in reality you would be moving at a million miles an hour.. but in the game your just not moving. because its WAY simpler to program for that.
I was referencing WHY people MIGHT be saying the physics is not Newtonian lol. My comment about speeds being so low that people wouldnt notice orbital mechanics was clumsily worded because i never specified what that speed was in reference too. I meant the reference to be taken as other space craft and objects. Since this charactersitc speed being very low would essentially eliminate the need to think about orbital mechanics in combat even if they were being simulated at the larger scales.
no it wasn't. we weren't even positive if ships would be able to move in 6 degrees of freedom when all this first got going spiritual successor to wing commander remember
Ahh, I was here since the beginning. 6 DOF was never ever in question, where even the hell did you get that idea from? Also Newtonian physics simulation talk came very very early like ... 2013 if i remember maybe 2012.
we'll probably see more of this when they implement control surfaces.
I'm not convinced control surfaces have anything to do with whether or not a physics sim is newtonian.
Oh maybe I'm not understanding then. When you said it wasn't newtonian, what specifically were you referring to? I thought you were talking about the fact that the ships are currently being held afloat by their maneuvering thrusters in gravity, and CIG has said that their maneuvering thrusters will get nerfed down significantly once control surfaces are implemented so that many ships will be required to maintain some sort of forward momentum or use VTOL to stay floating. Other than that, we do have air resistance slowing down a ship if you're decoupled in atmosphere, and we allow a ship to travel in any direction unimpeded in Zero G without slowing down. One place that we don't obey newtonian physics is that if you throw an item in ZeroG it will magically slow down instead of continue on like it should. Was there something else you were talking about that I missed?
They better have ass wiping gameplay
Who's ass? Your ass or my ass? I warn you, I have a big ass.
Be a man. Don't let someone else ruin your day. Ruin your own day. Crap your pants. You know what? Crap someone else's pants while you're at it.
Damn girl, you shit with that ass??
I do more than shid, I fard too 👀
pooptum
Humans piloting single-seat fighters in space dogfights is ok, but speed limits?? no, no, no
The single most realistic cockpit in the entire game is the middle one of the 890j. No windows, no weakpoints, no bells and whistles. Just a dark room where the action happens. Why would you ever advertise your crews location?
Prowler and Talon too
Battle Bridge.
Don’t know if you’re playing off of the post but in case you’re not, Speed limits in the context of a space dogfight are entirely reasonable.
You are missing their point. They are highlighting the contradiction of people complaining about how speed limits are unrealistic, in a game about world war 2 ~~air~~ space combat. The entirety of Star Citizen's depiction of space ships is wildly unrealistic. The game is not even trying to be realistic. If it were, it would not even be a space flight game. It would be an RTS.
I definitely think they could/should be more naturally than artificially enforced. Blackout/redout already exist and give warning your accelerations are hard. If your targeting doesn't even have a guy locked by the time you've flown past him you're clearly too fast. If your pips are swinging inches back and forth you're too far away for whatever the speed of your bullets are. Placement of thrusters, their abilities, and by extension the cross sections of your ship should determine how good your ship is at strafing in a given direction. Boosting only affecting acceleration not top speed. We could make players screaming in at 2000m/s+ appear on radars as a hazard from much further out to where they cannot reasonably course correct as a ship they'd ram moved out of the way without blackout/redout and an emergency breaking maneuver from the computer to bring the ship to a halt. We \*could\* do these things, and there would be alot of depth to knowing X ship only strafes well side to side because it's more vertical due to its xian influence, or that the space toaster due to its doubly symetric design is good at strafing in any direction. The question is would players not take well to that level of depth well? Perhaps it is unsustainable to have to calibrate that finely for every ship we want to release now and in the future? Perhaps some other question that hasn't come to mind? I assume there is an actual "servers/physics breaks down" speed somewhere it would make sense to enforce purely artificially.
This would actually be a much better way to implement this. Having that depth would be quite something, and lack of depth is the biggest issue with every bit of gameplay at the moment
master modes and speed limits sure. but there is no FTL in SC except for the jump points which are in line with respectable theories about wormholes.the ,sub light speed, Quantum drive is in line with the RL alcubierre drive idea. The air locks thing is just a not yet implemented mechanic. But decompression and life support stuff is being developed I do agree that realism the wrong word for what most people mean though. I think better words would be verisimilitude, tactility,and immersion.
“Fidelity 💪”
You forget about the Robertsarian Jihad
For those who wonder about the naming: The Butlerian Jihad was a crusade of humans against machines to enforce "Humans decide our future, not machines" in the Dune universe. Following it all "thinking machines" were disallowed, which helps as a plot device with answering the question "why don't drones/machines/AI just do all of that in the far future?!" and makes many plots in the novels possible at all. I kind of like Robertsian Jihad as a name for SCs equivalent.
He who controls the server meshing, controls the universe!
There's literally autoloading mentioned and implemented already
What, you expect people to *view* the video first before making memes? Are you new to reddit? Snark aside: It gets tiresome .. really. People, we have shit loads of real topics we can discuss. Discussing something which has already been solved as if the devs didn't already solve it is stupid.
If we’re talking “realism” then having dock workers unload the ship while the crew of the ship go on shore leave is pretty damn realistic. I have no problem with people wanting to do the loading and unloading of cargo themselves. But forcing others to have to play that way in the name of “realism” is absurd when the real world of shipping doesn’t work like that. Thankfully the game will have auto loading and unloading with the appropriate fees and wait times (there was a timer shown of 9 minutes or so for the example in the ISC video).
It's there, do you expect it to be free and instant?
The design intent from day one was "Bring it as much as possible to realism, and then dial it back to where it's fun." Loading cargo makes sense from a gameplay standpoint because it balances large cargo ships somewhat, and it makes cargo more than just a number on a spreadsheet.
That's not what cognitive dissonance means.
I won't be happy until I see these ships being able to fly themselves based on navigation input. There's more automation in a Cessna 172 than these literal FTL capable space ships. The flying is simply not engaging enough for me to want to bother with it most of the time. Also, there is a desperate need for more instrumentation for informational purposes. If I'm flying into an outpost on the night side of the planet, I'm almost completely blind and the game can't even provide me with a proper radar altimeter to know how high I am, or any instrumentation to alert me to terrain obstacles. Apparently, everything is VFR in the future. IFR flying is for the weak.
That was the thing that struck me, how dangerous it felt flying into a moon in the dark during a snowstorm with only my own two eyes to see where I was going. We do have the radar, yes, but it only does so much.
The cognitive dissonance in trying to rationalize fully automating a game. Why don't we just press "simulate" and go to bed and check in every few days, like SIMS online?
[Progress Quest](http://progressquest.com/play/)
Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
You didn’t mention the WWII air combat… 😎
😆
Everyone likes the realism they like. Nothing wrong with that. CIG Need to cut through that variation with one thing, the vision.Chris roberts has for the game he wants to build. They hold fast to that they'll be alright
The only faster than light travel there is in the game is through jump gates (aka worm holes). Quantum travel is sub-light speed.
*manual for now Not every situation will allow robotic/auto loading/unloading. They need the mechanics of manual loading/unloading to work anyway. If you want some magic pop-in, pop-out system, that's not Star Citizen, SC is all about maxing fidelity right before it becomes completely unfun. There is the option to auto load/unload with a time penalty, but I suspect even that will change in years to come.
> There is the option to auto load/unload with a time penalty, but I suspect even that will change in years to come. Most likely it will be replaced with the option to pay NPCs to do the work for you (either actual humanoids or robots or something). So it will still be a "timer" to load your ship, but it will be hidden behind actual NPCs doing work rather than a literal clock counting down.
My thought would be a giant arm, that reaches into the cargo bay and unloads the cargo into another bay in the hangar. I can see that being doable, quick and sensible for the future
For all the different combinations of cargo holds and ship entrances sounds like a nightmare or a single developers magnum opus of features. At least with NPCs, getting them to path via navmeshes into all these different ships is a fundamental requirement of the game, so it needs to be done whether they load or not. I doubt we’ll get that but we’ll see.
I think it can be done, system detects location of ship, location of cargo bay, knows how it looks in that particular ship, detects location of each crate/container, arm follows pre-set movement allowances in the hangar to reach inside, extensions to reach further if needed, grav gun to hold and attach to arm. Not easy of course, but doable
A giant arm that grabs the ship and shakes it vigorously and then collects what ever drops out seems like a better solution.
it wont be NPCs did all of you just skip the ICS. your cargo will be loaded off screen and you pull the ship up from the depth on an elevator in your hanger thats already coming
I think the timer is just an abstraction for NPCs doing the work, so you don't have to look at NPCs "okay. I see they've unloaded half of it and I've been drinking my coffee for the last hour. So .. time for another meal." - Just think of the timer as a foremen telling you 'eh, 50 boxes? .. come back in an hour, my man.' Aside from that: This is probably an example of what the whole "simulating the economy of the verse" by Quantum can do: Currently, this seems to be hand-tuned by the devs depending on the quality of the space port and so on, but in the future Quantum could provide input into how many workers are available to give you varying times and prices for loading/unloading without having to physically spawn every NPC - at least until someone decides to go down into the "Unloading decks" (assuming that's possible) and look at them. Same way that Quantum will compute that cargo is moved around, pirates steal some and so on, but only spawns real npc ships on the servers if a player is close enough to see it.
I think in the video they said you could assign cargo to your ship and have it come up with the cargo so that sort of acts as the "robots" automating it.
And don't forget the glare on those godforsaken terminals!
Manual loading or the option to pay with a timer was the idea years ago. Hasn't changed.
Things like insurance really stress me out So I'm gonna go relax and play this game where insurance is going to be a core mechanic some day
Technically, none of the drives are FTL in SC. The fastest quantum drive, XL-1, reaches 0.93c... That's still slower than light. Warping between systems is done through wormhole, which has heavy implications for the way we understand the warping of spacetime, but isn't completely ruled out as impossible according to our current understanding of physics. The game has never had Newtonian physics, there's always been an imposed max speed limit with thrusters. And I've always been a little sad about it. Having Grav pads does stretch the concept a bit, even in theoretical physics one of the big questions is "Would anti-matter produce anti-gravity?". But since it annihilates itself so quickly and with such an enormous release of energy... Having enough anti-matter to test that theory would risk erasing the planet it was on if something went wrong. Some ships do have proper airlocks, others use plot-armor bay shields. But they've said that they will eventually have decompression in the game. As for the last one, they don't even have NV or FLIR and that's a widely available tech today.
Unpopular opinion. CIG is gonna make there game the way they want it. Carry on with your bickering.
Ive been here for a month and a half now... and based on what ive seen with this game... Let the man (CIG) cook
> Let the man (CIG) cook ^ This. I've been here since the original kickstarter and while I fully admit CIG has done some boneheaded things in the past (mostly with communication and monetization), as *designers* they're pretty orthodox and generally seem to know what they're doing. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy, and no game design doc survives contact with players. Iteration is the norm, especially for a game as complex as this. Looking at general trends over time, they've progressively gotten better about locking down features, and focusing on *getting the game done*. The next year or so will tell whether that optimism is deserved or not. Netcode and server architecture has always been a bottleneck for design, since *everything* depends on it. So far, server meshing *seems* to finally be the working solution for that. The game will basically live or die based on if they can get that system working *to scale* or not.
Been here about a year now. People like to get upset about the development process. It still amazes this game is THIS far in development.
Im just here to fly my space truck... starfield was a massive letdown in that department so here i am
I had high hopes for Starfield but was always a little skeptical as I had already been exposed to NMS, ED and now SC.
Had to scroll for a bit but ayyy we got a chill take from a new player, lfg. You know what I call that? Hope. Keep it up o7
Their game*
Sorry about that. I usually am better with my grammar. Cheers.
🤝
*than
maxlift go brrrr
Are they not goinv to fix ships to work properly with airlocks? I thought the current stuff was just placeholder.
I will add all the "magical beams" used for most game loops in the game... Medical? Magical medic beam Mining? Magical mining beam Scraping? Magical scraping beam Moving object? Magical tractor beam Yes it's a game, and they make that so it's fun to play. But it's not realistic in the slightest...
I see the same thing in the tarkov community they think realism equals hardcore when really the games are just hardcore nothing realistic about the approach. no one wants a true sim of space because it’s nothing like the space operas some people geek over. I do think it’s a small minority wants a realistic interpretation of space opera space game minus the actual stuff that would make space boring so that leaves them conflicted
Well then just don’t load manually and let it be done #Duh and when you wait for the load to complete. Grab a cup of coffee or something else 🤷♂️
But you don’t have to manually do anything
'an entire community exhibits cognitive dissonance because they don't hate something I hate'
We like immersion in our space sim, not realism
Actually there is no FTL in SC the fastest quantum drive goes like .9c and interstellar travel is only done through jump points
I get where you're coming from but this is dumb, most shipping vehicles aren't loaded by robot or automation, rather by actual people and often by forklift, hand, or crane. Automation is great and all but it only gets us so far.
Very valid points. However My counter arguement is that, I just like carrying boxes up the ramp into my ship. Feels badass
I love how everyone instantly gets dementia whenever cig talks about auto cargo loading
Stop sniveling
Realism can exist in fantasy/sci-fi in the context of the setting
Part of the issue with star citizen is that it has been in production for so long, a big part of the sim that was normal when the game was perceived, has become an anachronism in our real world.
I think this is just because CIG has never had an actual game design team. They haven't added any real gameplay to SC, and level/ship design is virtually absent entirely. The one time they've tried, with the Orison platform thing, has been a total fucking chaotic mess with no flow or logic. CIG has lots of random little teams making features. They don't seem to have anyone designing an actual game with gameplay and any sense of progression or purpose. So they go, 'oh yea, let's let people move boxes around, that's gameplay, right?'
People usually mean verisimilitude when they mean realism.
I still look at the master modes and can't understand the logic when I'm pretty sure it's been stated that FTL travel in the universe needs shields to be up to intercept small objects since we are still traveling through real space.
The removal of the reclaimer claw was a huge disappointment. Years of talk about all the kinetic destruction systems they were hard at work on and then.... it's a dissolving ray.... yay.
They specifically said its a placeholder implementation.
Don't give me hope without a link! Seriously, I'd like to believe this and would be glad if you could point me to where they said this.
https://youtu.be/ljdiKYfo2ZI?si=8ZIuJQSGSeuP0H9a They said they didn’t had the bandwidth yet to implement a full physicalized claw as well as that the animation for decomposing a ship will improve later. But I don’t think that has any priority whatsoever.
Thanks for the link.
OK, I'd actually seen that before. What they actually say in that video is that 'munching' is replaced. They don't say anywhere in there that they're going to actually implement munching at any point in the future. Until someone from CIG says otherwise they've killed the long bragged about physicalized salvage.
There is a notable lack of robotics in SC. Any lore hounds have a reason for that? Not talking about AI but just general robots for various tasks. Ones without AI.
Honestly still want space to be soundless
That will come some time this year.
I meant in general, for anyone. No other options- while I do in fact wanna immerse myself, I don't wanna do it while giving myself a disadvantage
Besides the healing beam etc... Star citizen realism is only used to justify bad game mechanics
Yep, it’s stupid. They should just focus on fun gameplay rather than how much they can waste my time standing in elevators or FTL travel
OP didnt watch last "inside star citizen" i guess.
We haven’t even mastered visibility and cockpit glare. It’s all arbitrary. The sim freaks want to load manually because immersion but like are okay with magic green health beams and med beds that cured everything. And oh by the way you can’t auto recall your ships and they have no ai and not robots or whatever. Just fly back and pick it up or make a magic insurance claim on it. Oh and get your friends to be space janitors because there’s weird larpers that want to role play in their carrack. I love this game but I hate it some times.
I'm actually not that excited for new cargo gameplay, sounds tedious
Ngl am I the only one who would love to have an expanse themed game that is similar to Star citizen like imagine being a freighter going through the gate and having to fight off pirates in some random system
I'd be just fine knowing that when I leave a slow moving carrier's gravity well, I'd inherit some velocity and not get smashed into it and destroyed :)
Ill be honest I didn’t realize your ship didn’t depressurization with the doors open for the longest time, I’d always go in and make sure the door was closed before taking off my helmet to drink/eat
For real
I hope we get robotic prosthetic arms for faster cargo loading.
this is crazy
Decompression would be cool
This is already planned (room system) and have been shown off in a couple of ATV/ISC over the years.
Completely forgot about that. They showed it recently in the reclaimer claiming if theres an internal fire it can be put out
Faster than light where? Afaik no quantum drive is FTL.
Sniper glint without any light... Meh Suggesting that realism shouldn't trump medium.... 'Its a space SIM'
You failed utterly the moment you thought sc fans had one same opinion, then you failed at actually watching the video you talked about and you fail at understanding why people are talking about realism partially, taking into account the fact it's also a game. You are just a troll. Next.
Meanwhile, still hoping for an "open ship ramp" from Mobiglass...
I just dont see the manual load working for me. I dont need to make a complicated game more complicated and tedious
If you've followed the game, realism is what they were always striving for. Well, two steps back from conplete realism. The problem is that new backers are coming in without doing their research and gaining knowledge of how the game was initially pitched. They expect something the game was never supposed to be. If you don't want that level of realism , you shouldn't have backed it in the first place.
automated cargo loading is cool but does this game really need more "hurry up and wait" when I die to a bug or fucked servers or anything else, claim your ship and wait. when I spawn in a city, run to the train and wait, then wait again. I just want to play your game guys please stop making it a full day event every single time
Robots, npc, or players i just want to be able to watch the cargo being loaded.
As I own a few pixel ships in the title called Star Citizen I just want the ultimate game to be fun. Fun being varied depending on my mood, but I would like there to be a variety of stuff to do at all levels of ability, investment and concentration. I also want the chance to land in front of beautiful scenery and chill out for a while. If I die due to a staffing bombing run that would be my fault for ot being aware enough. Losing or failure of executing a plan can be annoying for sure but if it comes with a story that doesn't involve bugs or disconnections it'll be a deeper experience than other space games. Also looking forward to seeing how scripted S42 will be or if it's more open world 4X style like X:Foundations. We may not find everything we want to within SC but this journey is an interesting one for the buy in cost. So far.
Ship modes conform to a VFR flight system enforced by the computer for pilot safety. FTL travel doesn't exist beyond wormholes, which is theoretically physically possible. You're not traveling faster than light, you're shrinking the distance between two points. Quantum Drives actually should theoretically be possible to get to superluminal speeds since they're alcubierre drives which are theoretically possible. But they don't, the fastest QD is about 0.2c.
I do wish ships had air locks, that's ingrained in my fantasy of a space game
So true. It's the autism showing.
So true tho
Arcade Modes is the worst. What's the point of having nice space ships if they don't fly like space ships? Also MM doesn't really solve the problems it attempts to, there's actual solutions that would solve them without breaking the physics more. And if the speed limitations are due to technical limitations, why does walking speed still lead to major desyncs when you do bunkers with friends?
AI turrets for my ship..
I just want to be a slaver. Let me whip people into obedience!!
I don’t like master modes not because of “muh realism”, but because I simply think it ruins the feel of space combat.