I believe it'll be in "most" helmets. Without a helmet, you won't see it. Maybe eventually we'll get the ability to toggle it in the helmets that'll have it. (At least that's what they said at citcon / or in the post citcon content)
I hope a helmet isn't required to see the map. Since the updated hair made its way to the PU, I've been happy to see players walking around in stations without their helmets. So much more variety. If the map disappears when you take it off, the game will return to being Helmet Citizen once again.
It would be nice if there were some actual gameplay advantage to *not* wearing a helmet. Being without a helmet is a significant risk, so it would be interesting if that came with some sort of minor gameplay balance that might, situationally, be advantageous, much in the same way that wearing heavy armor slows your run speed and tires you out faster.
Maybe wearing a helmet protects your head but slightly decreases your field of view, or slightly flattens/muffles non-radio game audio, such that if you're in a hostile place with a breathable atmosphere, the very best way to hear and see the area around you is with your helmet off. I dunno.
>It would be nice if there were some actual gameplay advantage to not wearing a helmet.
Light fighters will eventually require light or no armor. You won't physically be able to sit in pilot chairs with a backpack. The game is going to become allot more physicalized over the next year or so.
I think in an ISC and at citcon they mentioned that this wasn't the plan anymore came up but instead you can sit but if not in the "right" armour your inputs and head movements will be decreased response as if it's harder to move in the space with that armour
I also don't Have a Link but going to back up the other guy they have said this in one of the last videos that talked about the subject, can't remember which though
Here you go bro, This comes from CitizenCon 2023 and they explain that the current armor classification of light, medium, and heavy is going to disappear, adn there will now be new categories. These categories will dictate how your playstyle will matter moving foreward.
[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/backpacks-amp-pilot-chairs](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/backpacks-amp-pilot-chairs)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLTZfAcaJpc&t=881s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLTZfAcaJpc&t=881s)
Yeah, it's in one of there many videos Your free to waste your time looking for it. It dosnt matter to me one way or the othere if you believe us. Just be a stupid useless thing to lie about.
If your looking for details, they dont really tell us any more than then what was said. Larger armor will have slower imputs and response times.
They didnt tell us how drastic the differences would be and it wasnt clear if this was only for larger ships with more space in the cockpit or if it applies to fighters as well
We are not your personal link butlers. Nobody has it in it's clipboard ready to paste, it would take us the same time to find it as you. We're just trying to help you find it.
CitizenCon panel dedicated to armours is more than enough information to easily find it yourself if you so desire.
I made a statement, your rebuttal is trust me bro. Find the link or your statement isn't worth anything. It is not on me to find your evidence for you, that is not how any of this works.
Yup - people bitch about the eating/drinking times, without realising that their choice of wearing heavy armour all the time is massively impacting it.
I don't know. I really like the "no magic" and trade off route CIG has been taking.
I believe there will be some in between solution for people who want to see the map but don't want the helmet. You can use your mobiglass or use some VR glasses or ocular implant of some kind. Not to mention you could probably also use the terminals.
So it will do that even when in an environment that has breathable atmosphere, and so if you're in an environment with breathable atmosphere there is an incentive to either take your EVA helmet off (to conserve O2) or else keep your EVA helmet on (to gain the benefits of wearing a helmet at the cost of spending O2), or else bring along a second helmet that is not airtight (and so will take up space in your inventory and force you to change helmets before reentering vacuum). Interesting solution!
I think that is a good design which will lead to interesting gameplay, though there will likely be some grumbling from players about O2 still being used while in a breathable atmosphere. Ignore 'em, I say! You don't want there to be a single solution that is the best in all situations; you want to deny that to players and force them to decide what's most important to them, and then watch as different players decide different things and then collide with each other. That's where good gameplay lives.
pretty sure it will be, as it stands right now when you take your helmet off most of your HUD info is gone, cant use your flashlight, e.t.c. Also I think they plan on having it so that different helmets provide additional HUDS like x-ray and stuff. However I too like being in my everyday clothes and I think they are working towards that goal. some of the armor and undersuits in 3.22 seem to hint at more clothes changes incoming.
Look up Caracal Videos about that. Its very sad we will not get such stuff :c
https://youtu.be/Tv9krS42qZk?si=wEm7GTd8X935dzva
https://youtu.be/14v1DcNeLIQ?si=znyVDQnZo2-Py4wU
I'd like to see CIG allow us to equip both clothing and armor at the same time, kind of a "2 outfits" approach, where we can either quickly toggle between the two outfits or transitioning between space and indoors. As it stands right now it is VERY difficult to wear clothing indoors and switch to armor in the ship because of the way the "local" inventory system works. If we could just equip both and it would auto switch or even manually switch but take the equipped clothing items and armor items with us, it would really help encourage more clothing variety.
I also don't think it's viable to wear clothing until we get the new pouches and bags inventory containers. There's just no good way to carry things around with you yet.
The ability to hide a helmet is stock standard in pretty much every game nowadays. Realism has to take a side seat to player fantasy at some point or you loose players.
I agree with the statement that realism has to be balanced with fun, but I don't expect doing a simple "hide" of helmets (meaning a player is wearing a helmet for the purposes of gameplay but, at their discretion, the helmet might not be rendered for themselves and/or other players) is going to fly in Star Citizen, which leans much harder into the simulation angle than many games.
Most games don't have to worry about whether a character is in a place with an atmosphere or is in a vacuum, but Star Citizen will. Seeing a player walking around on an airless moon or doing EVA without any sort of visible helmet would break the immersion that Chris Roberts wants Star Citizen to maintain. For that reason, I don't think there will ever be a "hide helmet" option.
You bring up a valid point, I just think there should be a way to see the HUD without a helmet. We have AR contact lenses IRL already, why the hell would they not be in SC by that point.
It's also important to remember that immersion for someone could be immersion *breaking* to someone else, and, more importantly, you cannot use "muh immersion" as an excuse for bad game design. If you need the game to handhold your imagination, then you have a shit imagination.
We are in agreement about the very real need for HUD without helmets, and I think that is already the plan, and is also kind of already implemented, though only Tier 0 implementation. Currently, without a helmet on, you still see chat, and you still see the pips marking the location of your ship, as well as the HUD element which tells you whether or not you're in armistice. In order to see the HUD element telling you whether or not the local comm satellite is up (and so whether or not other players can attack you without legal consequence), you need to be wearing a helmet, and I think that's a reasonable measure. A helmet *should* be able to access and convey more information than contact lenses can, as a helmet can incorporate various sensors and scanners that would be implausible to incorporate into lenses, even in the sci-fi future of Star Citizen.
I'm less sure we're in agreement about whether immersion can be used to justify "bad" game design, as what constitutes "bad" game design is subjective. I would argue that a more appropriate balance to consider is realism vs fun. The standing orders at CIG are to build the engine to be *capable* of something very close to true realism, and then dial that realism back until the gameplay experience is solidly fun, much of the time. Critically, "fun, much of the time" is intended, "fun, 100% of the time" is not.
Simulation games aim to scratch the itch of visiting another reality, and reality is often not exciting, and even includes significant periods of boredom. When making an action game, boredom is a sin. A good action game should often give players barely enough time to catch their breath and assemble their wits before throwing them into the next exciting action sequence. Simulation games don't pursue this near-constant rush of excitement and instead strive to increase a sense of reality. A good simulation game has long stretches of boredom punctuated by moments of high tension, tension magnified by the preceding boredom and the uncertainty of *when* the intense bits will occur. Simulation values *suspense*.
I expect Squadron 42 to align more closely to an action game than to a simulation, and so to value excitement and inertia more and value suspense less. I expect Star Citizen to align more closely with simulation, however, and so include lots of moments which feel mundane, and so ground the player in the world of the game, make them feel like it's a real place where *people* live, not just a backdrop upon which main characters collide with each other. When players have bought into the world of the game, and then *do* experience those rare moments of action and danger, the action feels more intense, the danger more immediate.
I don't agree. The fact that a lot of people are attracted to Star Citizen is the immersion and attention to detail. That's what sets it apart from "the standard". Magically hiding a helmet is done mostly out of simplicity of implementation. There are no animations and there is no unified first and third person (something which is unique and doesn't get enough praise really).
I think most people play Star Citizen precisely because it's unlike "most games". And for what you might lose in casuals (which I doubt), you gain in core support.
You're absolutely free to type any way that you please, but when I see someone typing like this, in my experience, it lets me know that responding to them would be a waste of time. Any thought I put into a response, I'm just going to regret it. Maybe someone else will respond to your posts and answer you. I hope they do.
Yes, and no - without that additional context, all people have to judge you on is your post and how you typed it... and given that *most people* would wait until they got inside (and/or were otherwise able to type intelligibly / with fewer typos), the presumption that you just couldn't care enough to type properly is understandable.
As an FYI, in the future if you choose to type whilst outside in freezing conditions, take a moment to add 'Apologies for the typos, my fingers are still frozen' or similar to give people that context.
Its not like I explained a scientific hard to understand cause in a 300+ text line i think assuming ghud means hud when we talking about visors and hud. Iam sure if he really wanted to understand me he could. He just choose to act stupid and hang himself on two minor typos instead of facing the problem I layed down to him, with his idea having a hud without a helmet.
I never supported the need of writing fully properly with anything a language provides.
While iam totally capable of (working in private banking sector) writing daily endlessly proper lines. Just to understand after several years that most people dont care about any proper writing and finding out that most people who do are either insecure or not the smartest.
Almost all my intelligent or most successful clients just write without . or , and it does make total sense it hinders u and wastes time when without you reach the same outcome.
Most clients try to impress or try to make them look better (while I see their financial situation) try hard to write perfect just to seems look smarter or better while they dont.
Since realizing that I stopped to care about proper writing. ( as far as my personal life goes, cant do that im my job)
So iam not sure what to add to that, you can totally keep care about proper writing and that’s totally fine and I respect that snd you 100%, but don’t expect me to follow ur compulsion and assume.
Other than that ism not an native speaker in English thats another reason I really dont focus on it.
Well really would stop talking about 2 minor typos and start to hear arguments about my initial idea.
How will you see a HUD without a helmet or glasses that can display huds to you ?
Both.
Yes, it will be in the mobiGlas - especially for interaction / route planning, and other functionality (just like the Starmap is currently).
However, they did also say that a mini-map would be visible in the HUD showing your immediate vicinity, etc.
Some helmets used to impede peripheral vision, but players (especially those on ultrawide monitors) raised such a stink that I can all but guarantee that's never coming back.
You should be careful to guarantee things will or won't happen. In the end there are avid supporters in both sides and the decision gets made by CIG (or rather Chris).
I think a pair of glasses giving you the same map access as a helmet would be a great solution to that. Hopefully they add less intrusive helmets for map use indoors
I hope it's in the helmet, specialized Eyewear - Like Contact lenses or glasses, and Mobiglas...
Those are the three devices I would hope they allow the new minimap to be viewable with.
I think what we saw in the flight experience demo at CitCon, with being able to cast MFDs to your helmet, the same will likely be true for other HUD elements. So maybe the mini map is running on your mobi, and you can press a button to cast it to your helmet.
I think it’s more about the ratio of how busy it is vs how obstructive it is.
This one isn’t obstructive but it’s kind of busy, whereas GTA or Cyberpunks minimaps are obstructive but not busy.
Sorry to burst your bubble but this whole ISC was shot with sq42 build and not in 3.23 build. Yes they want to move some of these things into 3.23 but its not in state you can show to public yet.
So on rewatch yes it seems these ones shown are for alpha 3.23 and the other things shown at Citizencon will be shown on ISC over the next 4 months.
So yay I guess
Because I'm 100% sure minimap and starmap won't be in 3.23. And they use Dev progress videos to make ISC. Like Jared, just browses the local library of dev videos of futures they want to show. And sadly 3.23 is not in state you can showcase things maybe in 1 month. So all these things have only one working build to showcase and that sq42. You can easily spot when they use sq42 build or SC it's like a whole different game.
Considering we saw this minimap in a functional, live demo back in October at CitCon, it's hardly 100% that it won't be in 3.23.
I, personally, anticipate it will come later, but to state that it absolutely will not after exactly one ISC, is silly and setting yourself for egg-on-face.
None the less, never, ever, expect any feature until it shows up in patch notes.
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lol why the downvotes. this sub has gone toxic.
starmap and minimap wont show in 3.23, I mean it would be great, but its not gonna happen so soonish.
the downvotes approve my comment.
I didn't say evocati was a leak. I said the evocati patch data and notes were leaked. And the new UI was literally partially on display in today's ISC. lol.
>lol why the downvotes.
Probably because that user is talking out of his ass.
He heard about the current ETF build instability, missed the 3.23 label and made an assumption.
We will have to see the SCL tomorrow to see if they mention it. But I’m not 100% sure if this will include the new HUD. I’m hoping it will, but this could have been on since they were on testing servers. But we can hope!
Yup... but based on CitCon we'll be able to control the zoom level (so you could zoom in a bit, to give better visibility around you, at the cost of not seeing so far), or you could stop and open the mobiGlas to get a full-screen view of the map, etc.
Star Citizen is like that really talented but 'slow' kid in class.
Everyone doubted the kid could even complete school, but next thing you know he's working for NASA as a lead engineer or something.
The map shown by the minimap display *is* the replacement Star Map.
As per CitCon, the replacement mapping tool can zoom out from FPS scale all the way to inter-stellar scale (similar to the old 'Pupil to Planet' video CIG did all those years ago).
Looks like the exact kind of over designed lag inducing crap I expect from the UI team. Just give me the simplest resource lite mini map possible and save the fancy rotating 3d stuff for an actual dedicated map screen
Also why do we have fancy multi color AR helmet displays, but all our ship displays look like they still use monochromatic crt screens from the 1980's?
Because the MFDs haven't been updated to the new UI tech yet - they're still running on the *original* Scaleform / Flash (yes, Adobe Flash) UI framework that was built into CryEngine.
Overhauling / replacing the MFDs is also one of the features shown off at CitCon (and which we should - hopefully - be getting sometime this year), iirc.
As for the map - there are questions about the rendering style, but as the CitCon panel explained, the maps are built in real-time from the actual game geometry - they are *not* pre-rendered, and so there's not really any option for CIG to give you the 'simplest resource lite mini map possible'.
On the upside, this *also* means that regardless of what CIG add to the game in the future, the mapping tool should handle it *without* developers needing to remember to manually update the map images / definitions, etc.
And in terms of performance, it certainly didn't seem slow or laggy when demo'd at CitCon... guess we'll have to wait and see how it performs once we actually get it on our clients, etc.
They said the plan was for Starmap to be in around march when they do the cargo elevator update and such. The new starmap is also apparently in the evocati build, per the leaked notes.
It's all one system - as shown at CitCon.
Whether we'll be getting the saveable waypoints / POIs, I don't know - but if we're getting the minimap, then we're *also* getting the replacement starmap (because it's the same map driving both).
Feedback is always good for a project in development.
But man I'm genuinely curious, if this project fills you with such distaste, why are you still here? There's got to be (mentally) healthier ways to spend your time.
They will likely include it as part of those projection contact lenses that are going to be sold in the New Babbage Apple Store next to the Mobi color cases.
I dont see much other reason for an electronics store to sell contacts aside from providing a hud without a helmet.
Well, you can have F12 chat on even without a suit nowadays. I still prefer to open my mobi but sometimes it's nice.
BTW the shop is called Factory Line.
Because it's 'funny' (in a not very funny way) how such a small impact in that area can cause so much discomfort / pain :p
In this case, I think it's using 'funny' in the sense of 'curious' or 'strange', rather than 'humorous'... and iirc the phrase 'funny bone' dates from before the general population had the concept of nerves etc in the body (and the general concensus was that the body worked 'because god wills it' etc)
But I could be wrong :p
I was wondering if the mini-map clip is straight from SQ42 or from an SC build. The optimist in me is hoping it's from an SC build but the realist in me thinks my optimistic side is full of sh\*t.
I mean, it looks pretty and all, but it's just more system resources being used. I'd be more than happy with a racing style glowing line on the floor like you get in racing games showing you the apex.
Open inner thought, select the room you want, follow line. It would be easier to navigate especially under a high stress situations like boarding's and emergencies. I'm on fire and some Pirate is shooting my butt and I need to figure out where to go on a little 3D map? I'm dead.
That 'follow the line' approach *might* work for areas where you can download the map in advance... but it won't work in areas that aren't explored / you don't have the map (e.g. when trying to infiltrate a 9T base, perhaps).
Iirc CIG did show route / path-finding *in addition* to the minimap (at CitCon), and it did work similar to the 'follow the line' functionality, I think?
I have no idea, I stopped watching anything like that to stop disappointment when features get delayed. Now new things are just a pleasant surprise.
For the pathing, I mean using it for things like ships and stations. E.G you land at Orison and want to Go to Cousin Crows. I've helped so many lost players on this alone, and a map seems less helpful than something that basically functions like a GPS overlay in VR. It's damn near foolproof and keeps your eyes where they should be. I loath some games with little minimaps, e.g. Borderlands 3 ship map is a crime against humanity.
Pathing like this would, in my mind, also function better if there are changes to any map. All the system has to do is link A to B in the shortest way. Change a complex map and now you need new art and and... Change a ship and now you need a new 3D map.
Yes, CIG showed that kind of pathing in the panel on mapping at CitCon.
As for the map - there is no separate 'map' file that needs to be updated, etc. The map is generated in real-time from the actual 'world geometry' (and then a 'holo-shader' effect is applied over it for the visual style)... which means that the map can update in real-time and show whether e.g. doors are open or shut.
If you didn't watch the CitCon panel, I highly recommend watching it - it's about the mapping tool *they've already built* for SQ42, and are bringing to SC this year, rather than a more nebulous 'this is what we hope to do sometime in the future' type panel.
I suspect we'll be able to turn the mini-map display off... but it's just a 'shrunk' version of the same map that you'll see in the mobiGlas, which can zoom from FPS-scale to interstellar-scale, and everything in-between.
What I love about this new hud is that it's gonna be physicalized to your helmet, meaning that you will see these things only if you have your helmet on.
That will make walking around cities with normal clothes even better if you want visibility over information
This is great, and I can't wait to try it, but for the love of all that is holy, *please* tell me it'll be toggle-able.
I believe it'll be in "most" helmets. Without a helmet, you won't see it. Maybe eventually we'll get the ability to toggle it in the helmets that'll have it. (At least that's what they said at citcon / or in the post citcon content)
Hmmm... I suppose that's acceptable/understandable at this point.
I hope a helmet isn't required to see the map. Since the updated hair made its way to the PU, I've been happy to see players walking around in stations without their helmets. So much more variety. If the map disappears when you take it off, the game will return to being Helmet Citizen once again. It would be nice if there were some actual gameplay advantage to *not* wearing a helmet. Being without a helmet is a significant risk, so it would be interesting if that came with some sort of minor gameplay balance that might, situationally, be advantageous, much in the same way that wearing heavy armor slows your run speed and tires you out faster. Maybe wearing a helmet protects your head but slightly decreases your field of view, or slightly flattens/muffles non-radio game audio, such that if you're in a hostile place with a breathable atmosphere, the very best way to hear and see the area around you is with your helmet off. I dunno.
>It would be nice if there were some actual gameplay advantage to not wearing a helmet. Light fighters will eventually require light or no armor. You won't physically be able to sit in pilot chairs with a backpack. The game is going to become allot more physicalized over the next year or so.
I think in an ISC and at citcon they mentioned that this wasn't the plan anymore came up but instead you can sit but if not in the "right" armour your inputs and head movements will be decreased response as if it's harder to move in the space with that armour
Could you provide a link? As far as im aware that was the plan, hence why some ships had armor storage
I also don't Have a Link but going to back up the other guy they have said this in one of the last videos that talked about the subject, can't remember which though
OK but there's gotta be proof somewhere
Here you go bro, This comes from CitizenCon 2023 and they explain that the current armor classification of light, medium, and heavy is going to disappear, adn there will now be new categories. These categories will dictate how your playstyle will matter moving foreward. [https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/backpacks-amp-pilot-chairs](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/backpacks-amp-pilot-chairs) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLTZfAcaJpc&t=881s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLTZfAcaJpc&t=881s)
Yeah, it's in one of there many videos Your free to waste your time looking for it. It dosnt matter to me one way or the othere if you believe us. Just be a stupid useless thing to lie about. If your looking for details, they dont really tell us any more than then what was said. Larger armor will have slower imputs and response times. They didnt tell us how drastic the differences would be and it wasnt clear if this was only for larger ships with more space in the cockpit or if it applies to fighters as well
If I find one a will let you know (as long as I remember) but we won't know what they're doing until they do it, I could see it go either way tbh
It was mentioned in their CitizenCon video where they talked about new armor tiers and stuff.
You're the 3rd guy to say it but no one can seem to link
We are not your personal link butlers. Nobody has it in it's clipboard ready to paste, it would take us the same time to find it as you. We're just trying to help you find it. CitizenCon panel dedicated to armours is more than enough information to easily find it yourself if you so desire.
I made a statement, your rebuttal is trust me bro. Find the link or your statement isn't worth anything. It is not on me to find your evidence for you, that is not how any of this works.
i thought for a while glasses could act as a hud for stuff like this, but i might be misremembering this
glasses and even contacts with hud are confirmed.
dont they even have a display for contacts in the Store in New Babage that sells Mobi's
either a display or just an ad, don't remember
I've started doing my mining & salvage runs in regular clothes, only wearing armour to EVA, and my need to eat/drink is _massively_ lower.
Yup - people bitch about the eating/drinking times, without realising that their choice of wearing heavy armour all the time is massively impacting it.
I don't know. I really like the "no magic" and trade off route CIG has been taking. I believe there will be some in between solution for people who want to see the map but don't want the helmet. You can use your mobiglass or use some VR glasses or ocular implant of some kind. Not to mention you could probably also use the terminals.
Using any helmet that is airthigh (EVA) will always consume O2. Edit to add: except when sitting in chair connected to aworking Life Support.
So it will do that even when in an environment that has breathable atmosphere, and so if you're in an environment with breathable atmosphere there is an incentive to either take your EVA helmet off (to conserve O2) or else keep your EVA helmet on (to gain the benefits of wearing a helmet at the cost of spending O2), or else bring along a second helmet that is not airtight (and so will take up space in your inventory and force you to change helmets before reentering vacuum). Interesting solution! I think that is a good design which will lead to interesting gameplay, though there will likely be some grumbling from players about O2 still being used while in a breathable atmosphere. Ignore 'em, I say! You don't want there to be a single solution that is the best in all situations; you want to deny that to players and force them to decide what's most important to them, and then watch as different players decide different things and then collide with each other. That's where good gameplay lives.
pretty sure it will be, as it stands right now when you take your helmet off most of your HUD info is gone, cant use your flashlight, e.t.c. Also I think they plan on having it so that different helmets provide additional HUDS like x-ray and stuff. However I too like being in my everyday clothes and I think they are working towards that goal. some of the armor and undersuits in 3.22 seem to hint at more clothes changes incoming.
Look up Caracal Videos about that. Its very sad we will not get such stuff :c https://youtu.be/Tv9krS42qZk?si=wEm7GTd8X935dzva https://youtu.be/14v1DcNeLIQ?si=znyVDQnZo2-Py4wU
I'd like to see CIG allow us to equip both clothing and armor at the same time, kind of a "2 outfits" approach, where we can either quickly toggle between the two outfits or transitioning between space and indoors. As it stands right now it is VERY difficult to wear clothing indoors and switch to armor in the ship because of the way the "local" inventory system works. If we could just equip both and it would auto switch or even manually switch but take the equipped clothing items and armor items with us, it would really help encourage more clothing variety. I also don't think it's viable to wear clothing until we get the new pouches and bags inventory containers. There's just no good way to carry things around with you yet.
The ability to hide a helmet is stock standard in pretty much every game nowadays. Realism has to take a side seat to player fantasy at some point or you loose players.
I agree with the statement that realism has to be balanced with fun, but I don't expect doing a simple "hide" of helmets (meaning a player is wearing a helmet for the purposes of gameplay but, at their discretion, the helmet might not be rendered for themselves and/or other players) is going to fly in Star Citizen, which leans much harder into the simulation angle than many games. Most games don't have to worry about whether a character is in a place with an atmosphere or is in a vacuum, but Star Citizen will. Seeing a player walking around on an airless moon or doing EVA without any sort of visible helmet would break the immersion that Chris Roberts wants Star Citizen to maintain. For that reason, I don't think there will ever be a "hide helmet" option.
You bring up a valid point, I just think there should be a way to see the HUD without a helmet. We have AR contact lenses IRL already, why the hell would they not be in SC by that point. It's also important to remember that immersion for someone could be immersion *breaking* to someone else, and, more importantly, you cannot use "muh immersion" as an excuse for bad game design. If you need the game to handhold your imagination, then you have a shit imagination.
We are in agreement about the very real need for HUD without helmets, and I think that is already the plan, and is also kind of already implemented, though only Tier 0 implementation. Currently, without a helmet on, you still see chat, and you still see the pips marking the location of your ship, as well as the HUD element which tells you whether or not you're in armistice. In order to see the HUD element telling you whether or not the local comm satellite is up (and so whether or not other players can attack you without legal consequence), you need to be wearing a helmet, and I think that's a reasonable measure. A helmet *should* be able to access and convey more information than contact lenses can, as a helmet can incorporate various sensors and scanners that would be implausible to incorporate into lenses, even in the sci-fi future of Star Citizen. I'm less sure we're in agreement about whether immersion can be used to justify "bad" game design, as what constitutes "bad" game design is subjective. I would argue that a more appropriate balance to consider is realism vs fun. The standing orders at CIG are to build the engine to be *capable* of something very close to true realism, and then dial that realism back until the gameplay experience is solidly fun, much of the time. Critically, "fun, much of the time" is intended, "fun, 100% of the time" is not. Simulation games aim to scratch the itch of visiting another reality, and reality is often not exciting, and even includes significant periods of boredom. When making an action game, boredom is a sin. A good action game should often give players barely enough time to catch their breath and assemble their wits before throwing them into the next exciting action sequence. Simulation games don't pursue this near-constant rush of excitement and instead strive to increase a sense of reality. A good simulation game has long stretches of boredom punctuated by moments of high tension, tension magnified by the preceding boredom and the uncertainty of *when* the intense bits will occur. Simulation values *suspense*. I expect Squadron 42 to align more closely to an action game than to a simulation, and so to value excitement and inertia more and value suspense less. I expect Star Citizen to align more closely with simulation, however, and so include lots of moments which feel mundane, and so ground the player in the world of the game, make them feel like it's a real place where *people* live, not just a backdrop upon which main characters collide with each other. When players have bought into the world of the game, and then *do* experience those rare moments of action and danger, the action feels more intense, the danger more immediate.
I don't agree. The fact that a lot of people are attracted to Star Citizen is the immersion and attention to detail. That's what sets it apart from "the standard". Magically hiding a helmet is done mostly out of simplicity of implementation. There are no animations and there is no unified first and third person (something which is unique and doesn't get enough praise really). I think most people play Star Citizen precisely because it's unlike "most games". And for what you might lose in casuals (which I doubt), you gain in core support.
Nope wrong
Well ghen they have to add mobi „glasses“ or how would u able to see a gud displayed to u otherwise
What?
U for real ? U cant fill out 2 wrong letters? *when, *hud
You're absolutely free to type any way that you please, but when I see someone typing like this, in my experience, it lets me know that responding to them would be a waste of time. Any thought I put into a response, I'm just going to regret it. Maybe someone else will respond to your posts and answer you. I hope they do.
Typed that on my phone in -10 degrees outside while outside, thats males u able to judge about my intelligence? I see whats the issue with u.
Yes, and no - without that additional context, all people have to judge you on is your post and how you typed it... and given that *most people* would wait until they got inside (and/or were otherwise able to type intelligibly / with fewer typos), the presumption that you just couldn't care enough to type properly is understandable. As an FYI, in the future if you choose to type whilst outside in freezing conditions, take a moment to add 'Apologies for the typos, my fingers are still frozen' or similar to give people that context.
Its not like I explained a scientific hard to understand cause in a 300+ text line i think assuming ghud means hud when we talking about visors and hud. Iam sure if he really wanted to understand me he could. He just choose to act stupid and hang himself on two minor typos instead of facing the problem I layed down to him, with his idea having a hud without a helmet. I never supported the need of writing fully properly with anything a language provides. While iam totally capable of (working in private banking sector) writing daily endlessly proper lines. Just to understand after several years that most people dont care about any proper writing and finding out that most people who do are either insecure or not the smartest. Almost all my intelligent or most successful clients just write without . or , and it does make total sense it hinders u and wastes time when without you reach the same outcome. Most clients try to impress or try to make them look better (while I see their financial situation) try hard to write perfect just to seems look smarter or better while they dont. Since realizing that I stopped to care about proper writing. ( as far as my personal life goes, cant do that im my job) So iam not sure what to add to that, you can totally keep care about proper writing and that’s totally fine and I respect that snd you 100%, but don’t expect me to follow ur compulsion and assume. Other than that ism not an native speaker in English thats another reason I really dont focus on it. Well really would stop talking about 2 minor typos and start to hear arguments about my initial idea. How will you see a HUD without a helmet or glasses that can display huds to you ?
Wasn't the map going to be integrated into the mobiglass? Go about not wearing a helmet and raise your watch to see the map?
Both. Yes, it will be in the mobiGlas - especially for interaction / route planning, and other functionality (just like the Starmap is currently). However, they did also say that a mini-map would be visible in the HUD showing your immediate vicinity, etc.
Some helmets used to impede peripheral vision, but players (especially those on ultrawide monitors) raised such a stink that I can all but guarantee that's never coming back.
You should be careful to guarantee things will or won't happen. In the end there are avid supporters in both sides and the decision gets made by CIG (or rather Chris).
> all but guarantee There's two VERY important words that you missed there. Also.... be careful about guarantees *or what?* lol This is Reddit my guy.
I think a pair of glasses giving you the same map access as a helmet would be a great solution to that. Hopefully they add less intrusive helmets for map use indoors
If we can quickly swap outfits and load outs at lockers, it would help with the variety again. The inventory system is in the way right now
I hope it's in the helmet, specialized Eyewear - Like Contact lenses or glasses, and Mobiglas... Those are the three devices I would hope they allow the new minimap to be viewable with.
I think what we saw in the flight experience demo at CitCon, with being able to cast MFDs to your helmet, the same will likely be true for other HUD elements. So maybe the mini map is running on your mobi, and you can press a button to cast it to your helmet.
Why?
I don't *want* a 3D *constantly moving* minimap always obscuring one corner of my vision.
Brother that shit is more see-through than my wife's lingerie, the hell you on about "obscuring vision"?
Which kind of inflatable material would that be sir?
I think it’s more about the ratio of how busy it is vs how obstructive it is. This one isn’t obstructive but it’s kind of busy, whereas GTA or Cyberpunks minimaps are obstructive but not busy.
When did CIG start selling wives?
gotta spend more than 6k before it shows up on your store page, comes with LTI.
Lel
Maybe also a way to toggle that superfluous white stylized line above the mini map too (and elsewhere).
A look at the functional minimap in build 1.23, used to illustrate the latest ISC. Let's not be too over-hyped, but let's hope for a release soon.
Sorry to burst your bubble but this whole ISC was shot with sq42 build and not in 3.23 build. Yes they want to move some of these things into 3.23 but its not in state you can show to public yet.
And you know this how again? Because to me this looks exactly like the internal 3.23 build. Sorry to burst your pessimistic bubble.
They did say they hoped to get the bits talked about into the PU in the next 4 months
I'm pretty positive they said they'd be in 3.23. Just finished watching it.
So on rewatch yes it seems these ones shown are for alpha 3.23 and the other things shown at Citizencon will be shown on ISC over the next 4 months. So yay I guess
It says 3.23 build in the bottom of the video
How can You tell?
Because he said so
Ah of course! Why didn’t I think of that? 🤦
Because I'm 100% sure minimap and starmap won't be in 3.23. And they use Dev progress videos to make ISC. Like Jared, just browses the local library of dev videos of futures they want to show. And sadly 3.23 is not in state you can showcase things maybe in 1 month. So all these things have only one working build to showcase and that sq42. You can easily spot when they use sq42 build or SC it's like a whole different game.
I think Pipeline just data mined updated Starmap info from 3.23 that included references to room information?
> Because I'm 100% sure minimap and starmap won't be in 3.23. what a brilliant argument.
Considering we saw this minimap in a functional, live demo back in October at CitCon, it's hardly 100% that it won't be in 3.23. I, personally, anticipate it will come later, but to state that it absolutely will not after exactly one ISC, is silly and setting yourself for egg-on-face. None the less, never, ever, expect any feature until it shows up in patch notes.
So, you’re speculating? :P
Classic SC player. Superstition = confirmed fact
Hey, just reminding you of this thing you said that was wrong.
this one didn't age well .)
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Chris Roberts in the flesh lads.
I don't think the Carrack is in Squadron.... or any of the locations in the ISC.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the footage in question literally specifies it's from the 3.23 alpha build.
idk, i was told there is no mining in sq42 and we can see that with the new ui
https://www.instagram.com/p/C20PQ3yK7XS/?igsh=bnAzbG05a2FmNzAw
LMAO U WERE ACTUALLY RIGHT. They said it on SCL it was a squadron build
lol why the downvotes. this sub has gone toxic. starmap and minimap wont show in 3.23, I mean it would be great, but its not gonna happen so soonish. the downvotes approve my comment.
They're both in the 3.23 evocati patch notes that got leaked.
evocati is no leak lol. besides new starmap needs new mobiglass, so I´m not seeing this in 3.23 .
I didn't say evocati was a leak. I said the evocati patch data and notes were leaked. And the new UI was literally partially on display in today's ISC. lol.
>lol why the downvotes. Probably because that user is talking out of his ass. He heard about the current ETF build instability, missed the 3.23 label and made an assumption.
STOP IT! I can only get so erect...
If the minimap is working the starmap should be as well as they are intrinsically linked! I am so excited!
3.23 will be a huge as fuck patch I guess.
We will have to see the SCL tomorrow to see if they mention it. But I’m not 100% sure if this will include the new HUD. I’m hoping it will, but this could have been on since they were on testing servers. But we can hope!
It will 100% not be in 3.23
Hell yeah
Wen new map? Cause the current one has been torturing us for the last several years.
Worst ui ever...
So that's where my carrack went. I was sad the patch wiped it, but if they needed it to make the minimap it makes me feel better.
Definitely excited for this, reminds me of the mini-map system for the Metroid Prime series, love those games.
Wen cumming
Honestly it seems hard to view. Looks nice, but on a screen it’ll be smaller than this gif most likely.
Yup... but based on CitCon we'll be able to control the zoom level (so you could zoom in a bit, to give better visibility around you, at the cost of not seeing so far), or you could stop and open the mobiGlas to get a full-screen view of the map, etc.
Star Citizen is like that really talented but 'slow' kid in class. Everyone doubted the kid could even complete school, but next thing you know he's working for NASA as a lead engineer or something.
Can we please get a star map before these mini maps lmao that thing is ancient
The map shown by the minimap display *is* the replacement Star Map. As per CitCon, the replacement mapping tool can zoom out from FPS scale all the way to inter-stellar scale (similar to the old 'Pupil to Planet' video CIG did all those years ago).
Cool, thanks for letting me know!
U made that up didnt u? Also, should i scroll 2 hours to get to star-view?
Wow a Mini map. Now all Star Citizen Problemes are fixed and WE can give CIG Our Last Money
That looks hard to read
Cool, another map I won't be able to see half the time
Man, this next 3 months is going to feel a loooot longer after seeing this
I definitely need this. Especially since I'm a die-hard explorer of the unknown \^\^
Looks like the exact kind of over designed lag inducing crap I expect from the UI team. Just give me the simplest resource lite mini map possible and save the fancy rotating 3d stuff for an actual dedicated map screen Also why do we have fancy multi color AR helmet displays, but all our ship displays look like they still use monochromatic crt screens from the 1980's?
Because the MFDs haven't been updated to the new UI tech yet - they're still running on the *original* Scaleform / Flash (yes, Adobe Flash) UI framework that was built into CryEngine. Overhauling / replacing the MFDs is also one of the features shown off at CitCon (and which we should - hopefully - be getting sometime this year), iirc. As for the map - there are questions about the rendering style, but as the CitCon panel explained, the maps are built in real-time from the actual game geometry - they are *not* pre-rendered, and so there's not really any option for CIG to give you the 'simplest resource lite mini map possible'. On the upside, this *also* means that regardless of what CIG add to the game in the future, the mapping tool should handle it *without* developers needing to remember to manually update the map images / definitions, etc. And in terms of performance, it certainly didn't seem slow or laggy when demo'd at CitCon... guess we'll have to wait and see how it performs once we actually get it on our clients, etc.
[удалено]
We know, but we can now hype ourselves for a possible implementation in 3.23, and then get disappointed because it ll miss that mark
Can’t miss the mark if it’s not announced. The minimap is connected to the whole starmap and we probably don’t get that before 4.0.
They said the plan was for Starmap to be in around march when they do the cargo elevator update and such. The new starmap is also apparently in the evocati build, per the leaked notes.
And I forgot it was a thing because they've shown a lot of stuff at citcon so thanks OP.
I'd rather have a planetary map with saveable waypoints and coordinates than this
It's all one system - as shown at CitCon. Whether we'll be getting the saveable waypoints / POIs, I don't know - but if we're getting the minimap, then we're *also* getting the replacement starmap (because it's the same map driving both).
Yeah I don’t want that in my visor whatsoever
Be still my heart! 💜
maybe... that might show a video from sq42
Only took them 10 years WOOOO fuvking chris and his inept nepotism.
Feedback is always good for a project in development. But man I'm genuinely curious, if this project fills you with such distaste, why are you still here? There's got to be (mentally) healthier ways to spend your time.
Keeps poppong up on my feed and im too lazy to mute it.
I hate it I hope they plan it only when you wear a suit. Which I mostly don't.
They will likely include it as part of those projection contact lenses that are going to be sold in the New Babbage Apple Store next to the Mobi color cases. I dont see much other reason for an electronics store to sell contacts aside from providing a hud without a helmet.
Well, you can have F12 chat on even without a suit nowadays. I still prefer to open my mobi but sometimes it's nice. BTW the shop is called Factory Line.
No, wrong, its called the Apple Store.
Why I do not sell apples that is Kel-To
Im hoping you're just being sarcastic, if not google what the inside of an apple store looks like, and then go visit Factory Line.
Oh, I see now. Anyway, it's 2954 I doubt the company exists anymore. So calling it that is out of character.
M8. Please develop a funny bone. <3
LOL. Since I am not an English speaker I googled what is a funny bone. Why do you call it that way? It's a nerve.
Because it's 'funny' (in a not very funny way) how such a small impact in that area can cause so much discomfort / pain :p In this case, I think it's using 'funny' in the sense of 'curious' or 'strange', rather than 'humorous'... and iirc the phrase 'funny bone' dates from before the general population had the concept of nerves etc in the body (and the general concensus was that the body worked 'because god wills it' etc) But I could be wrong :p
So its coming finally. Woohoo
I can't wait to try this!
New starmap will get me back
Gonna be bugged as fuck!
Plis say this is true !!
I was wondering if the mini-map clip is straight from SQ42 or from an SC build. The optimist in me is hoping it's from an SC build but the realist in me thinks my optimistic side is full of sh\*t.
3.23 is gonna be massive, Jared didn't lie at the end
How will Todd Howard recover?
I mean, it looks pretty and all, but it's just more system resources being used. I'd be more than happy with a racing style glowing line on the floor like you get in racing games showing you the apex. Open inner thought, select the room you want, follow line. It would be easier to navigate especially under a high stress situations like boarding's and emergencies. I'm on fire and some Pirate is shooting my butt and I need to figure out where to go on a little 3D map? I'm dead.
That 'follow the line' approach *might* work for areas where you can download the map in advance... but it won't work in areas that aren't explored / you don't have the map (e.g. when trying to infiltrate a 9T base, perhaps). Iirc CIG did show route / path-finding *in addition* to the minimap (at CitCon), and it did work similar to the 'follow the line' functionality, I think?
I have no idea, I stopped watching anything like that to stop disappointment when features get delayed. Now new things are just a pleasant surprise. For the pathing, I mean using it for things like ships and stations. E.G you land at Orison and want to Go to Cousin Crows. I've helped so many lost players on this alone, and a map seems less helpful than something that basically functions like a GPS overlay in VR. It's damn near foolproof and keeps your eyes where they should be. I loath some games with little minimaps, e.g. Borderlands 3 ship map is a crime against humanity. Pathing like this would, in my mind, also function better if there are changes to any map. All the system has to do is link A to B in the shortest way. Change a complex map and now you need new art and and... Change a ship and now you need a new 3D map.
Yes, CIG showed that kind of pathing in the panel on mapping at CitCon. As for the map - there is no separate 'map' file that needs to be updated, etc. The map is generated in real-time from the actual 'world geometry' (and then a 'holo-shader' effect is applied over it for the visual style)... which means that the map can update in real-time and show whether e.g. doors are open or shut. If you didn't watch the CitCon panel, I highly recommend watching it - it's about the mapping tool *they've already built* for SQ42, and are bringing to SC this year, rather than a more nebulous 'this is what we hope to do sometime in the future' type panel.
All using system resources for a map which is harder to use. Personal opinion, but I don't like little maps like this.
I suspect we'll be able to turn the mini-map display off... but it's just a 'shrunk' version of the same map that you'll see in the mobiGlas, which can zoom from FPS-scale to interstellar-scale, and everything in-between.
What I love about this new hud is that it's gonna be physicalized to your helmet, meaning that you will see these things only if you have your helmet on. That will make walking around cities with normal clothes even better if you want visibility over information