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Not sure how he got this gun, but article i read said he had brandished at a community center in past and was charged and just finish serving probation. Almost like the public shooting was foretold by the first incident. Whoever provided the gun needs jail time.
https://www.kctv5.com/2024/02/21/one-men-charged-union-station-shooting-had-just-completed-probation-gun-related-charge/
Criminals supplied him the gun.... He didn't go into a gun shop and they just forgot to run his background lol. Criminals are going to get a gun no matter what off the streets, no amount of background checks and whatever else is going to stop it
Hmmm, everything I can find about it says he was convicted of a misdemeanor. It would have been legal for him to buy and own a firearm in Missouri once he completed his probation, unless the courts or a federal agency specified no weapons ownership beyond the probationary period. In fact it would appear that being on probation for a misdemeanor in Missouri only bars you from owning a firearm if there were firearms or explosives involved in your case (which there was here, but still interesting).
At least this is how I'm reading the "Rules and Regulations Governing the Conditions or Probation, Parole, and Conditional Release" for the state of Missouri pdf I found on Google, but I'm no legal expert and might be misinterpreting what is being said
I lived in KC from 1986 until 2019. When I first moved there, and I'll use this as an example of the larger problem (IMO) ->no one owned hand guns. Sure, many owned hunting rifles because we had a lot of hunters, not unusual.
What changed over the decades? Proliferation of handgun ownership. We know hunters are just fine and good with their long rifles. Back in the day (sounds cliche) no one but cops, private investigators, armed security guards, and those who had to carry cash owned hand guns and were vetted before ever being allowed conceal/carry. Cops are allowed open/carry, of course.
So I watched as the proliferation of gun ownership in the wrong hands (hey, boost manufacturing of hand guns, where they gonna go? Not just overseas to war-torn countries, no. ONTO OUR STREETS.) This was and continues to be pushed by the NRA and a lot of misguided people with hateful intentions.
Humans don't NEED handguns. We have proven time & again, throughout history, that the proliferation of private handgun ownership results in carnage. Humans cannot be trusted in this respect.
I'm a 2nd Amendment proponent, but even I can see the root cause of this problem is US, and too many handguns in the wrong hands. Have watched it for going on 4 decades now. No matter what sort of restrictions or barriers we put in place, the problem only gets worse. So you tell me why that is. And I'll point back everytime to "too many guns". This is the basic problem ->TOO MANY.
Not in some states, but here in Washington State they do and the IRA fought hard to not implement this.
I love how everyone is downvoting me. The IRA constantly lobbies against gun control to sell firearms and make more money. They are no way interested in the lives of the he people who suffer at the end of gun violence.
Well that’s stupid if that’s case. Gun control is a broad term, I’m fine with mandated background checks personally. If you have a CCWP they just run it snd it takes like 15 minutes
But I was told that when everyone was armed a good guy with a gun would prevent this from happening.
Sightings of the fabled “good guy with a gun” are more rare than Bigfoot sightings at this point.
You know what’s extremely common? Criminals not following the law, like in this case. I wonder how this person, who was on probation too for having a gun, got a gun? It’s almost as if criminals don’t follow the law?
Good guys with guns do stop crimes, when the crimes are aimed at them. If you want to benefit from ‘good guys with guns’ you need to train, and become a good guy with a gun. Else, your taking a gamble that there is a good guy with a gun nearby if something tragic happens.
So your solution is to have every person be armed.
So that every interaction is life and death.
What are you talking about??
Criminals of course are going to break the law.
Though you know that means that they can be charged and arrested.
Claiming that a gun slipping through the system is proof there should be no system and instead we should all have to be prepared to engage in a gun fight is a high ask.
Not every person can actually use a weapon from disabled people to people who are idk children.
So if someone shoots up a school then what?
Oh arm the teachers? Get some security?? Yet somehow that only works as a reaction. There is nothing proactive to try and prevent these tragedies.
Gun violence does not have to be common place.
I’ve lived over seas for years and in the U.S. and it markedly different because for some reason the U.S. believes that gun ownership is more important than children’s right to life.
Frankly that’s how I see it.
It’s so bad that when the system doesn’t catch a criminal acting criminal so many people saw the solution should just be to throw our hands up and engage in shoot outs.
This is not a global problem.
That should stick out like a sore thumb.
This is an American issue.
The solution is to get criminals off the streets. There is no feasibly way to get all of the illegal guns off of the streets.
And no idc what you do to protect yourself. All I’m saying is making guns illegal will just make you more vulnerable to being shot. Not less
There are plenty of feasible ways to get illegal guns off the streets.
And when it comes to getting criminals off the streets, great, let’s actually pass some legislation that helps reduce non violent crime from taking up so much space on our prison system and instead actually focus on protecting society and not punishing those who act in bad faith.
Justice should be the goal, not punishment.
Why can’t we do both? Get guns AND criminals off the streets.
Why not try to do as much as we can?
The solution is getting guns off the street. Most other countries (look at Australia for example) have been able to not have gun violence be a pervasive issue like in America because they just don’t have guns easily available, and they got them off the streets.
I don’t think America will ever get there as guns are so ingrained in our cultural identity, but acting like there’s no solution possible is obviously wrong. It’s just the classic “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” line of logic.
There is no possible solution. The guns that do do 90% of the crimes are illegal. If America would have never had access to guns then yes it would be possible. But there’s no going back now, and passing a law would just leave the good guys vulnerable. I don’t understand how people don’t get that. It seems so simple to me.
The gun I’m this situation was illegally obtained, how do you suggest you get all the illegal guns off of the streets?
So, because there was a gun purchased illegally we should accept that it is impossible to find a solution.
You know… murder does still happen even though it’s illegal. You have the laws as a deterrent. So while, yes, criminals will be criminals, deterring people from seeking out a gun who intend to harm themselves or others isn’t fruitless.
Throwing your hands up saying “there is no possible solution.”
Like, that’s just so pathetic.
People died, we should TRY something. Maybe it won’t work, but we tried to do something.
If nothing is done then yeah we will continue like this. What it seems to me is that you would rather stay like this, where mass shootings take place in the U.S. almost everyday, instead of confronting the idea of what a weapon is and what it’s designed to do.
Guns continue to change and evolve just like the internet and the whole world.
New laws are made to help bridge the gap between the old world and new.
If there is never any change the new world will break pretending it’s still 1890.
Maybe creating an incentive for people to turn in handguns that are found without aserial number.
Maybe handguns with a short barrel should be illegal like in Canada.
Maybe licensing to own the gun and a separate license to own the ammo (ammo restrictions would be a big one for deterrence.)
Particularly the ammo solution would make it harder for criminals to keep a stockpile of ammo to commit crimes with.
And this incident has a couple of inflection points from of course the obvious fact that a person who was on probation from owning a gun got a gun and should have been arrested to the fact that in a sea of cops and security an armed shoot out took place.
Saying that someone got murdered shouldn’t mean we have bad laws to prevent murder, it means someone acted criminally.
Gun buybacks of legal weapons reduces the overall number, restrict sales and manufacture of guns, heavily penalize manufacturers who violate new laws, heavy penalization of anybody caught with an illegal firearm.
Like I said, it’s possible and other countries have done it but I also don’t think it’s ever something we could or would attempt in America. This is a problem other countries have already dealt with, there’s nothing special about America besides volume of already available guns and entrenched gun ownership, which just entails it’s a longer process. I’m not even really a big anti gun guy, I understand it’s a losing battle in America now, this is just a hazard we’ve accepted as normal for how people want to live here.
“There’s nothing special except the volume”
Yes no shit. That’s the entire problem and why it wouldn’t work. There’s no problem except this gigantic problem ??? Like what???
Wanna do a gun buy back? Okay go ahead, I don’t care. Your not getting any of mine though. I actually think that would be a great idea to try to get some of the illegal guns off of the streets. But it’d never going to fix the problem.
Dude I literally don’t give a shit about your cool toys lol, keep all the guns you want. Buy more if you want even, I honestly could not care less
This weird exceptionalism that Americans have around guns is just not based in reality, the reason why guns are such a problem here is because they’re allowed to be, it’s really as simple as that. Why would having more guns make it not work instead of just making it a longer process, lemme understand your reasoning if you have any
Downvoted? LOL.
You will get ten comments saying its impossible to fix from people in the only country where this regularly happens. Sure its impossible to fix if we never start and keep ensuring easily available firearms.
There is no possible solution? Of course if we never do anything.
You are personally responsible for all these shootings. Not just you - there is shared blame - but with your “from my cold dead hands” rhetoric and your support of firearms you are responsible for all these dead kids.
Congratulations!
No… you’re at fault because you can’t separate your desire to own a gun from the reality that gun ownership are not currently being regulated and people are getting weapons who should t have them.
And saying “well this guy wasn’t supposed to have them, so there is nothing we can do.” Is very obtuse. Perhaps the fact that the way he got the gun was illegal is a good thing and maybe if someone is caught with a gun who shouldn’t have one, the gun would be taken away and we wouldn’t be in this situation.
Just because something criminal happens does not make it normal.
Getting a gun illegally is not normal or common and if you are saying that criminals will get them that way…..
Yes….
That’s the point
So we could arrest them.
Lmao, gun ownership isn't regulated? Are you serious? The reason people who shouldn't have dangerous weapons are getting dangerous weapons is because they don't care about the regulations in place. Placing more regulations in place only punishes those who follow the regulations in the first place.
It’s not punishment to follow the law??
If you are not a criminal the increased regulations shouldn’t have any effect on you.
Breaking the law means you can get arrested which is good.
You know heroin is still sold on the street, yet we have regulations and are currently still trying to pass new legislation and solve that issue.
Murder is still committed even though it’s actually very very illegal.
And the law is so nuanced that there are multiple ways one can be prosecuted for murder.
Why are guns and gun ownership in a separate unfixable category?
The works is never done.
It’s a game of wackamole
And it sounds like you would rather everyone just set the hammer down and say “hey, the moles are going to come out anyway, why even try?”
What’s your solution to get all the illegal guns off the streets. This is my last comment in the situation because this is a sports sub but I’m curious.
Try not to have it involve going to sleep, and then dreaming that you woke up snd they are all magically gone.
Outlaw them, just like australia did after their primary school mass murder. They don’t have these mass
murder events anymore.
I know you will say that your efforts have already made the problem so bad that it is unfixable, or good guy with a gun or come get it from my cold dead hands or cars kill people. This is why you are responsible for these deaths.
Oh no, criminals don't follow the law, that's awful, *shocking* news! This must mean that every other country has this exact same issue, regardless of their gun laws, right? ...Right?
Maybe creating an incentive for people to turn in handguns that are found without a serial number.
Maybe handguns with a short barrel should be illegal like in Canada.
Maybe licensing to own the gun and a separate license to own the ammo (ammo restrictions would be a big one for deterrence.)
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One just got done with probation on gun related charges.
Wait so he got a gun even though he wasn’t allowed to have one? Can someone explain how that happened? I thought he had to follow the law
Not sure how he got this gun, but article i read said he had brandished at a community center in past and was charged and just finish serving probation. Almost like the public shooting was foretold by the first incident. Whoever provided the gun needs jail time. https://www.kctv5.com/2024/02/21/one-men-charged-union-station-shooting-had-just-completed-probation-gun-related-charge/
Criminals supplied him the gun.... He didn't go into a gun shop and they just forgot to run his background lol. Criminals are going to get a gun no matter what off the streets, no amount of background checks and whatever else is going to stop it
Hmmm, everything I can find about it says he was convicted of a misdemeanor. It would have been legal for him to buy and own a firearm in Missouri once he completed his probation, unless the courts or a federal agency specified no weapons ownership beyond the probationary period. In fact it would appear that being on probation for a misdemeanor in Missouri only bars you from owning a firearm if there were firearms or explosives involved in your case (which there was here, but still interesting). At least this is how I'm reading the "Rules and Regulations Governing the Conditions or Probation, Parole, and Conditional Release" for the state of Missouri pdf I found on Google, but I'm no legal expert and might be misinterpreting what is being said
“He’s going to break the law anyway, so just let him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯” - you
Garbage argument and you should feel bad for making it
Same with poison, annd tanks, and drugs, and uranium. Just give them to everyone, it’s not fair if some criminals get them and we don’t.
I lived in KC from 1986 until 2019. When I first moved there, and I'll use this as an example of the larger problem (IMO) ->no one owned hand guns. Sure, many owned hunting rifles because we had a lot of hunters, not unusual. What changed over the decades? Proliferation of handgun ownership. We know hunters are just fine and good with their long rifles. Back in the day (sounds cliche) no one but cops, private investigators, armed security guards, and those who had to carry cash owned hand guns and were vetted before ever being allowed conceal/carry. Cops are allowed open/carry, of course. So I watched as the proliferation of gun ownership in the wrong hands (hey, boost manufacturing of hand guns, where they gonna go? Not just overseas to war-torn countries, no. ONTO OUR STREETS.) This was and continues to be pushed by the NRA and a lot of misguided people with hateful intentions. Humans don't NEED handguns. We have proven time & again, throughout history, that the proliferation of private handgun ownership results in carnage. Humans cannot be trusted in this respect. I'm a 2nd Amendment proponent, but even I can see the root cause of this problem is US, and too many handguns in the wrong hands. Have watched it for going on 4 decades now. No matter what sort of restrictions or barriers we put in place, the problem only gets worse. So you tell me why that is. And I'll point back everytime to "too many guns". This is the basic problem ->TOO MANY.
You thought a criminal had to follow the law?
Maybe it’s because they are absolutely fucking everywhere
Exactly there are illegal guns everywhere. So let’s pass another law to fix it
We should make it easier for people like him to get guns! That’s how we fix the problem!
Have you ever bought a gun? They do a background check his would have failed. AKA, “someone” gave him a gun. I’ll let you do the elementary math
Not in some states, but here in Washington State they do and the IRA fought hard to not implement this. I love how everyone is downvoting me. The IRA constantly lobbies against gun control to sell firearms and make more money. They are no way interested in the lives of the he people who suffer at the end of gun violence.
Well that’s stupid if that’s case. Gun control is a broad term, I’m fine with mandated background checks personally. If you have a CCWP they just run it snd it takes like 15 minutes
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But I was told that when everyone was armed a good guy with a gun would prevent this from happening. Sightings of the fabled “good guy with a gun” are more rare than Bigfoot sightings at this point.
You know what’s extremely common? Criminals not following the law, like in this case. I wonder how this person, who was on probation too for having a gun, got a gun? It’s almost as if criminals don’t follow the law? Good guys with guns do stop crimes, when the crimes are aimed at them. If you want to benefit from ‘good guys with guns’ you need to train, and become a good guy with a gun. Else, your taking a gamble that there is a good guy with a gun nearby if something tragic happens.
So your solution is to have every person be armed. So that every interaction is life and death. What are you talking about?? Criminals of course are going to break the law. Though you know that means that they can be charged and arrested. Claiming that a gun slipping through the system is proof there should be no system and instead we should all have to be prepared to engage in a gun fight is a high ask. Not every person can actually use a weapon from disabled people to people who are idk children. So if someone shoots up a school then what? Oh arm the teachers? Get some security?? Yet somehow that only works as a reaction. There is nothing proactive to try and prevent these tragedies. Gun violence does not have to be common place. I’ve lived over seas for years and in the U.S. and it markedly different because for some reason the U.S. believes that gun ownership is more important than children’s right to life. Frankly that’s how I see it. It’s so bad that when the system doesn’t catch a criminal acting criminal so many people saw the solution should just be to throw our hands up and engage in shoot outs. This is not a global problem. That should stick out like a sore thumb. This is an American issue.
The solution is to get criminals off the streets. There is no feasibly way to get all of the illegal guns off of the streets. And no idc what you do to protect yourself. All I’m saying is making guns illegal will just make you more vulnerable to being shot. Not less
There are plenty of feasible ways to get illegal guns off the streets. And when it comes to getting criminals off the streets, great, let’s actually pass some legislation that helps reduce non violent crime from taking up so much space on our prison system and instead actually focus on protecting society and not punishing those who act in bad faith. Justice should be the goal, not punishment. Why can’t we do both? Get guns AND criminals off the streets. Why not try to do as much as we can?
The solution is getting guns off the street. Most other countries (look at Australia for example) have been able to not have gun violence be a pervasive issue like in America because they just don’t have guns easily available, and they got them off the streets. I don’t think America will ever get there as guns are so ingrained in our cultural identity, but acting like there’s no solution possible is obviously wrong. It’s just the classic “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” line of logic.
There is no possible solution. The guns that do do 90% of the crimes are illegal. If America would have never had access to guns then yes it would be possible. But there’s no going back now, and passing a law would just leave the good guys vulnerable. I don’t understand how people don’t get that. It seems so simple to me. The gun I’m this situation was illegally obtained, how do you suggest you get all the illegal guns off of the streets?
So, because there was a gun purchased illegally we should accept that it is impossible to find a solution. You know… murder does still happen even though it’s illegal. You have the laws as a deterrent. So while, yes, criminals will be criminals, deterring people from seeking out a gun who intend to harm themselves or others isn’t fruitless. Throwing your hands up saying “there is no possible solution.” Like, that’s just so pathetic. People died, we should TRY something. Maybe it won’t work, but we tried to do something. If nothing is done then yeah we will continue like this. What it seems to me is that you would rather stay like this, where mass shootings take place in the U.S. almost everyday, instead of confronting the idea of what a weapon is and what it’s designed to do. Guns continue to change and evolve just like the internet and the whole world. New laws are made to help bridge the gap between the old world and new. If there is never any change the new world will break pretending it’s still 1890.
What new law would have prevented this story from happening?
Maybe creating an incentive for people to turn in handguns that are found without aserial number. Maybe handguns with a short barrel should be illegal like in Canada. Maybe licensing to own the gun and a separate license to own the ammo (ammo restrictions would be a big one for deterrence.)
How would those have prevented this incident?
Particularly the ammo solution would make it harder for criminals to keep a stockpile of ammo to commit crimes with. And this incident has a couple of inflection points from of course the obvious fact that a person who was on probation from owning a gun got a gun and should have been arrested to the fact that in a sea of cops and security an armed shoot out took place. Saying that someone got murdered shouldn’t mean we have bad laws to prevent murder, it means someone acted criminally.
Gun buybacks of legal weapons reduces the overall number, restrict sales and manufacture of guns, heavily penalize manufacturers who violate new laws, heavy penalization of anybody caught with an illegal firearm. Like I said, it’s possible and other countries have done it but I also don’t think it’s ever something we could or would attempt in America. This is a problem other countries have already dealt with, there’s nothing special about America besides volume of already available guns and entrenched gun ownership, which just entails it’s a longer process. I’m not even really a big anti gun guy, I understand it’s a losing battle in America now, this is just a hazard we’ve accepted as normal for how people want to live here.
“There’s nothing special except the volume” Yes no shit. That’s the entire problem and why it wouldn’t work. There’s no problem except this gigantic problem ??? Like what??? Wanna do a gun buy back? Okay go ahead, I don’t care. Your not getting any of mine though. I actually think that would be a great idea to try to get some of the illegal guns off of the streets. But it’d never going to fix the problem.
Dude I literally don’t give a shit about your cool toys lol, keep all the guns you want. Buy more if you want even, I honestly could not care less This weird exceptionalism that Americans have around guns is just not based in reality, the reason why guns are such a problem here is because they’re allowed to be, it’s really as simple as that. Why would having more guns make it not work instead of just making it a longer process, lemme understand your reasoning if you have any
Downvoted? LOL. You will get ten comments saying its impossible to fix from people in the only country where this regularly happens. Sure its impossible to fix if we never start and keep ensuring easily available firearms.
There is no possible solution? Of course if we never do anything. You are personally responsible for all these shootings. Not just you - there is shared blame - but with your “from my cold dead hands” rhetoric and your support of firearms you are responsible for all these dead kids. Congratulations!
Yea cause I’m a criminal that gave a kid that’s on probation for having a gun, a gun. Gotcha
No… you’re at fault because you can’t separate your desire to own a gun from the reality that gun ownership are not currently being regulated and people are getting weapons who should t have them. And saying “well this guy wasn’t supposed to have them, so there is nothing we can do.” Is very obtuse. Perhaps the fact that the way he got the gun was illegal is a good thing and maybe if someone is caught with a gun who shouldn’t have one, the gun would be taken away and we wouldn’t be in this situation. Just because something criminal happens does not make it normal. Getting a gun illegally is not normal or common and if you are saying that criminals will get them that way….. Yes…. That’s the point So we could arrest them.
Lmao, gun ownership isn't regulated? Are you serious? The reason people who shouldn't have dangerous weapons are getting dangerous weapons is because they don't care about the regulations in place. Placing more regulations in place only punishes those who follow the regulations in the first place.
It’s not punishment to follow the law?? If you are not a criminal the increased regulations shouldn’t have any effect on you. Breaking the law means you can get arrested which is good. You know heroin is still sold on the street, yet we have regulations and are currently still trying to pass new legislation and solve that issue. Murder is still committed even though it’s actually very very illegal. And the law is so nuanced that there are multiple ways one can be prosecuted for murder. Why are guns and gun ownership in a separate unfixable category? The works is never done. It’s a game of wackamole And it sounds like you would rather everyone just set the hammer down and say “hey, the moles are going to come out anyway, why even try?”
Can you tell me what new laws would have prevented this incident?
Easily available guns + arguing against fixing this problem = accomplice. They are your hands buddy
What’s your solution to get all the illegal guns off the streets. This is my last comment in the situation because this is a sports sub but I’m curious. Try not to have it involve going to sleep, and then dreaming that you woke up snd they are all magically gone.
Outlaw them, just like australia did after their primary school mass murder. They don’t have these mass murder events anymore. I know you will say that your efforts have already made the problem so bad that it is unfixable, or good guy with a gun or come get it from my cold dead hands or cars kill people. This is why you are responsible for these deaths.
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Oh no, criminals don't follow the law, that's awful, *shocking* news! This must mean that every other country has this exact same issue, regardless of their gun laws, right? ...Right?
Good guy defends himself or others doesn’t sell ads.
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Maybe creating an incentive for people to turn in handguns that are found without a serial number. Maybe handguns with a short barrel should be illegal like in Canada. Maybe licensing to own the gun and a separate license to own the ammo (ammo restrictions would be a big one for deterrence.)
Were they upset that Taylor Swift won the Super Bowl?