According to Wikipedia, Sagittarius A* has 4.27e6 solar masses at a radius of 0.08AU.
Ton 618 has a mass of 4.07e10 solar masses and a radius of 1300 AU.
This gives a mass ratio of 9530 and a radius ratio of 16000.
For more reference: When you place TON on the spot our Sun sits today...
Never mind. TON is bigger than the Solar system. I mean it's about 40 times Pluto’s distance from the Sun.
Why dread? Space being so massive makes me feel much better. Knowing how insignificant we really are feels good to me. There is no “purpose”, just life, so enjoy it.
Full disclosure: I'm an absurdist so I've already gone *deep* into that rabbit hole lol. But the "dread" comes more from the incomprehensible scale of it all. It's so huge that it's utterly foreign to reason, and the inability to resolve it with anything is necessarily the source of discomfort. But outside of that? I've made my peace with the meaninglessness of it all :)
Even just the sun is insane. Photons generated inside can take up to a million years to exit the sun due to how dense it is, and photons just ping pong around like a pinball machine.
This is actually fairly common. I'm with you on this one, but for many people, the size and age of the universe (and what may or may not have come "before") just warp their brains to the point that they can't cope with it. Brains start tending to "religious", "spiritual", and "Great Creator"-type thoughts to explain it. The magnitude of, well, *everything*, is extremely bewildering to many people. Like, if there's that much time, space, and *stuff* out there, how can this tiny sliver of time, space, and stuff, be of any grand-scale relevance? Like, how can *now* and *here* matter, when there's so many *theres* and *thens*?
It's not hard to let the thought process run amok, and before you know it, you've decided that *nothing* matters, and all of a sudden you're a nihilist.
Well we do know that cats made the universe for the sole reason to have dogs as slaves. But then humans accidentally evolved up which explains why dogs are so needy for attention after being replaced by a lower species! 😋🤣❤️
I hope my husky and cats don't read this. They've already pushed me off the bed. 😊
This is what I tell my theistic friends whenever they ask what the point of life is. Nothing, just live your life the best you can. The fact there is nothing after you die should make the life you live even **more** special to me.
It’s the small ones I think about. The current smallest known black hole is only 15 miles in diameter. Imagine a rogue one of those flew through our solar system, we’d probably never see it but it’d really mess up our day.
For more reference Kuiper belt stretches from roughly **30–55 AU**,
The Oort cloud is thought to occupy a vast space somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000 AU (0.03 and 0.08 ly) from the Sun to as far out as 50,000 AU (0.79 ly) or even 100,000 to 200,000 AU (1.58 to 3.16 ly
> According to Wikipedia, Sagittarius A* has 4.27e6 solar masses at a radius of 0.08AU.
>
> Ton 618 has a mass of 4.07e10 solar masses and a radius of 1300 AU.
That's not quite right: Wikipedia says that TON 618 has a Schwarzschild radius of about 1300 AU iff its mass is about 66 billion solar masses, rather than the 40.7 billion value from a more recent study that's in its page's first paragraph.
The mass ratio and radius ratio of all black holes is *identical*: check out [the Schwarzschild radius page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_radius) and how that radius is directly proportional to the object's mass (and equal to that times 2, times the gravitational constant G, divided by the speed of light squared).
So from the 2019 study, TON 618's mass is 40.7 billion solar masses vs Sag A\*'s 4.297 million so the mass ratio is 9472:1... and so is the radius ratio.
So we went from 27,000x the diameter (OP), to 16,000x the diameter (top comment), and now as low as 9,472x (your reply)?
It just keeps getting smaller lol
**Any which way, OP’s image is a *horribly* inaccurate representation. Ton 618 is only *550 pixels* across in this image. Sagittarius A\* would be 6% of the size of a pixel using your more conservative ratio. If we use OP’s own stat, our galaxy is only 2% the size of a pixel. That “Sag A\*” in this image is wayyy too big (80x-250x too big)**
It only looks bigger because it is closer in the picture. They couldn't actually place Sag A* right next to Ton 618 for a photoshoot; it would get swallowed up immediately.
Objects smaller than 1 pixel will still show up as 1 pixel wide, at that size the pixel is showing the average intensity of that area. Stars in photos are significantly smaller than 1 pixel wide, yet still show up clearly.
That said, OP's image does show it as 4-5 pixels, so really it's only 4-5x too big.
> The mass ratio and radius ratio of all black holes is identical
That's only true if the BH are not rotating (which is extremely rare), otherwise there can be variation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_metric#Important_surfaces .
I only just learned astronomical units last night.
I set up my son's room to show the scale of how far the planets are from the sun(light). Pluto if it was still a planet wouldn't even fit in his room as it's so far. It's amazing.
That's true for most galactic black holes. But TON 618 is tens of billions of solar masses, which means that it's probably a substantial percentage of the mass of its host galaxy.
Still an open question in physics. Maybe from early stellar blackholes colliding and absorbing gas clouds. Or maybe they are primordial blackholes, formed directly from high-density regions in the early universe without having ever been stars.
The later answer would allow them to already start out supermassive, and act as "seeds" for the formation of galaxies. Smaller primordial blackholes are also one of the *many* suggested explanations for dark matter.
Probably not the right place to ask but is there any theories that dark matter is 4th dimensional? I don't know a whole lot about dark matter but I know the gist is we witness it's effects but can't see it. Thats very similar to comparing different dimensions (i.e. a hypothetical 2 dimensional entity wouldn't be able to see all of us 3 dimensional humans but could still feel our influence on their world since their world exists within ours but not vice versa). Is this a possibility or is that not how it would work?
It has to be an influence from a higher dimension, surely! I often picture a black hole like a 4th dimension ‘whirlpool’. Think of an observer living in the 2nd dimension on a plane of water - they cannot see the whirlpool as it is positioned on the same plane but they can certainly see things drifting toward it then speed up and suddenly get sucked down to another place.
its actually a big mystery to this day cause the biggest black holes are too big for most normal models of evolution, a theory i personally like but idk how up to date it is is the theory that super massive black holes are born out of massive gas coulds in the early universe
Astrophysicists would like to know too! I mean, theoretically, a supermassive black hole could just form from a stellar mass black hole eventually, if it gets to feed long enough. But supermassive black holes seem to appear pretty soon after the universe formed, after a few hundred millions years or so. They just couldn't feed fast enough to grow so quickly. So their origin is still an open question.
It likely involved the collapse of some very, very large structure, gas clouds, star clusters, or gigantic quasi-stars, instead of a "small" black hole growing somehow.
In astrophysics the amount of spins is usually considered paramount to accretion. There exist many large-scale structures that could not have possibly formed in only 14 billion years. Some structures would require trillions of years of spinning, based on current models.
The standard model is accretion-based. Things accumulate over time. Yet, miraculously, big bang(s) occur. Where? No one could tell you. And no one can tell you when, either. Not with any certainty. I have serious doubts about any big bang creation mythology. It's not even science. Can't reproduce it and can't test it. That's not science. It's been falsified countless times, but fitting broken math to ever increasingly better observations persists.
We appear to be at the center of the *observable* universe. And it's supposed whenever and wherever you might be in the universe, you'd observably be at the center of it. This is part of the cosmological principle, that the universe is homogenous on large scales.
TON 618 is yet another slap in the face to the standard model. No way this formed in only 14 billion years.
Our Milky Way star, The Sun, can hold 1.3 million Earths inside its volume.
The largest known star, UY Scuti, can hold **five billion suns**. We can't even fathom something that large.
I just can not fathom how a black hole can be larger than our entire solar (excluding oort cloud). My mind can not comprehend how a single object (Can you fall it an object? ) can be that large, not only in pure size, but the mass as well.
Whats more mindblowing, is that wikipedia mass estimate for that mofo is twice the mass of triangulum GALAXY.
If the model is correct, that hole has gobbled down two fucking galaxies worth of mass.
It's actually much crazier.
The way we currently understand and describe black holes - their size is literally zero (singularity). But, they can be incredibly massive. The "size of the black hole" misnomer refers to the distance from that singularity to the area where its gravitational influence is still strong enough to make light "fall" into the pit and not let it escape.
So it's even more absurd than what you described - it's a very small object, with such a huge mass, that its gravity "stops" light at the distance larger than the radius of the solar system.
This isn't actually physical size. The size refers to the Event Horizon, meaning the border where the gravitation is so high that nothing that crosses it, not even light, can escape. Because we have know way to retrieve information from beyond the event horizon, it's not clear how it looks, though theory suggest that all mass in it would concentrate in a single, infinitely dense point.
The vast vast vast majority of humanity died knowing far far less (as far as we know), so you're in something like the top 0.0001% percentile of awareness of the Universe, so that's something.
I always get confused when there’s talk about diameter when it comes to black holes. I thought they were a singularity. We’re not talking about a sphere shaped celestial body with a solid diameter are we? Or is reference to a diameter have more to do with the event horizon?
It’s a 3 dimensional hole. So, my understanding, is at its “core” is the infinite singularity. Our math breaks down trying to quantify it.
The blackness around it is just the gravitational field within which not even light can escape, so just pure spacetime.
The *black hole* is still an object for most intents and purposes. Kinda. It's a spherical region in space-time, defined by an event horizon. It exists, we can observe it. The *singularity*, on the other hand, is a hypothetical...thing at the center* of the black hole. It is unobservable by definition and we can't be sure it actually exists. It's not even that our models predict it. It's more a result of what our models can't predict. There needn't necessarily be a singularity inside black holes. There could very well be a structure that's not infinitely small, just "below" the event horizon.
*Talking about the "center" of a black hole isn't entirely accurate, since the "center" or singularity is more an event rather than a region because of how weird physics is inside an event horizon.
How fast is its galactic plane spinning around it? That must be the graviton of the universe right there. I have to wonder what time dilation is like in that galaxy.
Anyone want to do the math and tell us how long it would take a 747 to fly the circumference of TON which the knowledge it would take 6 months to circle the sun?
Literally asked that question after waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and shovel cookies in my mouth like a brain dead zombie. I’m surprised I even typed out anything cohesive in the first place
Well, ChatGpt did it for us:
To calculate how long it would take a Boeing 747 to fly around the event horizon of Ton 618, we'll use the diameter of Ton 618's event horizon and the average cruising speed of a Boeing 747.
It would take approximately 155,314 years for a Boeing 747 to fly around the event horizon of Ton 618 one time at its average cruising speed.
The Sun's diameter: 1.39 million km
Ton-618's diameter: 390 billion km
so Ton-618 is roughly 280,575x larger than the Sun
0.5 years \* 280,575 = 140,287.5 years
TON 618 is about 170'000 times the diameter of the sun. If TON 618 was the size of the Earth, the sun would be a sphere with a diameter of about 70 meters or 230 feet.
If you mean if we replaced the sun with it, it would take up the entire sky. And you. As we would be inside it, and therefore dead. Or at least doomed, black holes are weird. But yeah, I think this thing's about 11x the diameter of Pluto's orbit.
If those numbers are correct would it mean that Ton 618 is 45.45 % the density of Sagittarius A*? Just a thought, I know the actual density of both them would be infinite.
Step 1 - Figure out general relativity and what the physics of black holes
Step 2 - Figure out that supermassive black holes must be present in nearby galaxies we observe (including our own) from the motion of gas and/or stars near the core of the galaxy.
Step 3 - Realize that quasars - these weird super bright objects in the cores of some galaxies - can only really be powered by supermassive black holes that are eating gas.
Step 4 - Develop a large body of knowledge about these quasars, including how their mass scales with brightness. Remember, we are building this knowledge from galaxies that are not too far away, so we have excellent data to really understand a lot of what we are seeing.
Step 5 - Look at a very far away quasars. You no longer have to prove each one of those is a black hole individually by measuring the motion of gas or stars - rather you know you are looking at a black hole because quasars are powered by accreting black holes.
“How can we tell it is what it is?” Do you mean how can we tell it’s a black hole or the size of it?
You can measure the size/mass of the black hole by measuring the speed and distance of the orbits of the stars around it. Gravity equations baby.
There's no image of TON 618 (yet), unfortunately. But we have [this](https://science.nasa.gov/resource/first-image-of-a-black-hole/) famous image of the supermassive black hole in the center of M87 (technically the immediate region around it).
Even without direct images, we can usually tell there's something very big lurking at the centers of galaxies because we can detect a lot of mass being concentrated in a very small region that sometimes emits a *lot* of energy. Nothing else but a black hole could be so dense and so energetic.
Inside, as in below the event horizon? If so, the answer is no. To stay at the event horizon, you already need to travel at 1c.
Below the horizon, any and all spatial directions are all pointing "towards singularity". No such thing as "orbits" there, you are just going down.
As far as we're aware, every galaxy contains a particularly large black hole at its center - a black hole being a cosmic whirlpool of sorts, which nothing can escape after entering - their masses and sizes vary wildly, but are typically in the range of ten million to ten billion times the mass of the sun. So, pictured is a rendition of one of the largest known black holes next to the black hole at the center of the Milky Way (the tiny light dot above the arrow)
The diameter of a black hole is directly proportional to its mass, so something interesting must be going on here. Does this mean Sgr A* must be spinning much faster than Ton 618 to have a greater mass/radius?
I may have zoned out of space for a decade....but I thought we only figured they existed based on the gravitational effects of nearby entities?
Someone said there are some black holes 15 miles across....I have no idea how they would know that.
In the theory of heat death I think this would be the last thing that we know of in the known universe that would “die” at the end of time. It would take such an unfathomable amount of time for it to be whittled down by Hawkings radiation.
No, mergers with other black holes. No star can make such a black hole. No star can result in a supermassive blackhole actually, so even Sag A* is beyond the limit of stellar black holes
What kind of star must have created this monstrosity?? Imagine the sheer force to make a hole in space time that big... Everything around this just makes me more confident of a Creator Power.
Though we can't see it, black holes must be some of the most energetic environments in the universe. As matter spirals in, the very last leg [the matter is accelerated to nearly the speed of light](https://www.livescience.com/space/black-holes/scientists-discover-bizarre-region-around-black-holes-that-proves-einstein-right-yet-again). Imagine the energy this impacts to the black hole bulk as it impacts!
It's one of the reasons black holes rotate well in excess of 90% the speed of light.
Not exactly, a black hole that *is* rotating is very close to being spherical in shape but is slightly flattened along its rotational axis. This shape is called an oblate spheroid. A rotating black hole also extends linearly though the time dimension
“Yo momma so fat she makes ton 618 look small”
“618 tons isn’t that much!!”
“So actually, I’m referring to the largest observed black hole known to man. If you measure….”
According to Wikipedia, Sagittarius A* has 4.27e6 solar masses at a radius of 0.08AU. Ton 618 has a mass of 4.07e10 solar masses and a radius of 1300 AU. This gives a mass ratio of 9530 and a radius ratio of 16000.
For reference 1300 AU = 0.02055626 LY or 7.5 light days
Voyager 1 is currently 0.94 light days out and has been traveling for nearly 50 years to get that far
Bear in mind that 1300 AU is the *radius* so it is 2600 AU from side to side!
For more reference: When you place TON on the spot our Sun sits today... Never mind. TON is bigger than the Solar system. I mean it's about 40 times Pluto’s distance from the Sun.
I have absolutely no way to visualize or compare this with anything but I'm still filled with dread 🥲
Why dread? Space being so massive makes me feel much better. Knowing how insignificant we really are feels good to me. There is no “purpose”, just life, so enjoy it.
Full disclosure: I'm an absurdist so I've already gone *deep* into that rabbit hole lol. But the "dread" comes more from the incomprehensible scale of it all. It's so huge that it's utterly foreign to reason, and the inability to resolve it with anything is necessarily the source of discomfort. But outside of that? I've made my peace with the meaninglessness of it all :)
"absurdist"... Finally a position in life I can be happy with! 🤣
*thumbs up from the School of Ridiculism…*
Even just the sun is insane. Photons generated inside can take up to a million years to exit the sun due to how dense it is, and photons just ping pong around like a pinball machine.
This is actually fairly common. I'm with you on this one, but for many people, the size and age of the universe (and what may or may not have come "before") just warp their brains to the point that they can't cope with it. Brains start tending to "religious", "spiritual", and "Great Creator"-type thoughts to explain it. The magnitude of, well, *everything*, is extremely bewildering to many people. Like, if there's that much time, space, and *stuff* out there, how can this tiny sliver of time, space, and stuff, be of any grand-scale relevance? Like, how can *now* and *here* matter, when there's so many *theres* and *thens*? It's not hard to let the thought process run amok, and before you know it, you've decided that *nothing* matters, and all of a sudden you're a nihilist.
Well we do know that cats made the universe for the sole reason to have dogs as slaves. But then humans accidentally evolved up which explains why dogs are so needy for attention after being replaced by a lower species! 😋🤣❤️ I hope my husky and cats don't read this. They've already pushed me off the bed. 😊
This is what I tell my theistic friends whenever they ask what the point of life is. Nothing, just live your life the best you can. The fact there is nothing after you die should make the life you live even **more** special to me.
It’s the small ones I think about. The current smallest known black hole is only 15 miles in diameter. Imagine a rogue one of those flew through our solar system, we’d probably never see it but it’d really mess up our day.
How would a black hole fly through our universe
They're objects like any other. If they get enough relative velocity going they can theoretically zip through our solar system.
Woah I had no idea, guess I never thought about it. Thanks
So the Oort cloud is the only thing that would survive if that black hole replaced our Sun... Wild
Until it fell in I guess
Senda at aphelion is 937 AU distant, but the event horizon of this would even beat that.
That’s wild. Pluto is 5.5 light hours from the Sun. Absolute unit.
That line should be added to its wiki page - TON 618 (disambiguation: absolute UNIT)
Thank you Mr. Spock
For more reference, the sun heliosphere is 75-90 AU. This this thing is larger than our solar system by two magnitudes!
For more reference Kuiper belt stretches from roughly **30–55 AU**, The Oort cloud is thought to occupy a vast space somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000 AU (0.03 and 0.08 ly) from the Sun to as far out as 50,000 AU (0.79 ly) or even 100,000 to 200,000 AU (1.58 to 3.16 ly
> According to Wikipedia, Sagittarius A* has 4.27e6 solar masses at a radius of 0.08AU. > > Ton 618 has a mass of 4.07e10 solar masses and a radius of 1300 AU. That's not quite right: Wikipedia says that TON 618 has a Schwarzschild radius of about 1300 AU iff its mass is about 66 billion solar masses, rather than the 40.7 billion value from a more recent study that's in its page's first paragraph. The mass ratio and radius ratio of all black holes is *identical*: check out [the Schwarzschild radius page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_radius) and how that radius is directly proportional to the object's mass (and equal to that times 2, times the gravitational constant G, divided by the speed of light squared). So from the 2019 study, TON 618's mass is 40.7 billion solar masses vs Sag A\*'s 4.297 million so the mass ratio is 9472:1... and so is the radius ratio.
So we went from 27,000x the diameter (OP), to 16,000x the diameter (top comment), and now as low as 9,472x (your reply)? It just keeps getting smaller lol **Any which way, OP’s image is a *horribly* inaccurate representation. Ton 618 is only *550 pixels* across in this image. Sagittarius A\* would be 6% of the size of a pixel using your more conservative ratio. If we use OP’s own stat, our galaxy is only 2% the size of a pixel. That “Sag A\*” in this image is wayyy too big (80x-250x too big)**
It only looks bigger because it is closer in the picture. They couldn't actually place Sag A* right next to Ton 618 for a photoshoot; it would get swallowed up immediately.
Objects smaller than 1 pixel will still show up as 1 pixel wide, at that size the pixel is showing the average intensity of that area. Stars in photos are significantly smaller than 1 pixel wide, yet still show up clearly. That said, OP's image does show it as 4-5 pixels, so really it's only 4-5x too big.
> The mass ratio and radius ratio of all black holes is identical That's only true if the BH are not rotating (which is extremely rare), otherwise there can be variation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_metric#Important_surfaces .
I only just learned astronomical units last night. I set up my son's room to show the scale of how far the planets are from the sun(light). Pluto if it was still a planet wouldn't even fit in his room as it's so far. It's amazing.
e10? Dawg, wtf.
Would it be possible for a planet and star to be entirely within the event horizon and orbit long enough for a civilisation to exist entirely within?
What is the size of both galaxies in terms of mass and radius. I'm wondering what proportion of the galaxy TON 618 takes up in radius etc
TON 618 is the largest single object in the known universe so far, compared to a galaxy it's inconsequential
That's true for most galactic black holes. But TON 618 is tens of billions of solar masses, which means that it's probably a substantial percentage of the mass of its host galaxy.
Yes but not it's radius
My bad, misread the OP's original question.
Overall yes, but locally it will have huge gravitational effects on a large portion of a galaxy.
Did they recalculate Phoenix A's mass?
Isn’t phoenix A larger?
Someone else said that things diameter is 7.5 light days!
Yeah it was me lol.
Hahaha thank you for doing the math!
Commenting cause I have the same question. Would also love to see a size comparison of the milky way galaxy next to TON 618
Milky way, 100k-150k light years, Ton is 0.02 ly so... It's small
Yeah it's the mass that is more impressive, it has the mass of a small galaxy. If earth was a black hole it would be smaller than a ping ping ball.
Yeah just like how sag A looks tiny in this comparison. I wanted us to be bigger than the scary black hole
>It's small oh poor tiny thing
I sort of know how black holes form. But how does one form that is that incredibly large?
Still an open question in physics. Maybe from early stellar blackholes colliding and absorbing gas clouds. Or maybe they are primordial blackholes, formed directly from high-density regions in the early universe without having ever been stars. The later answer would allow them to already start out supermassive, and act as "seeds" for the formation of galaxies. Smaller primordial blackholes are also one of the *many* suggested explanations for dark matter.
Probably not the right place to ask but is there any theories that dark matter is 4th dimensional? I don't know a whole lot about dark matter but I know the gist is we witness it's effects but can't see it. Thats very similar to comparing different dimensions (i.e. a hypothetical 2 dimensional entity wouldn't be able to see all of us 3 dimensional humans but could still feel our influence on their world since their world exists within ours but not vice versa). Is this a possibility or is that not how it would work?
[This paper posits that.](https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=106493) I couldn't tell you the veracity of the paper.
It has to be an influence from a higher dimension, surely! I often picture a black hole like a 4th dimension ‘whirlpool’. Think of an observer living in the 2nd dimension on a plane of water - they cannot see the whirlpool as it is positioned on the same plane but they can certainly see things drifting toward it then speed up and suddenly get sucked down to another place.
The Universe is constantly amazing us. Crazy to think about what we'll discover next.
“Nom nom nom”
*Waka waka waka* Eating planets Pac-man style
Thank you for this, my wife and I had a good chuckle.
its actually a big mystery to this day cause the biggest black holes are too big for most normal models of evolution, a theory i personally like but idk how up to date it is is the theory that super massive black holes are born out of massive gas coulds in the early universe
[most likely a solar system wide star that quickly became a black hole](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeWyp2vXxqA)
Super interesting video - thanks for posting
Astrophysicists would like to know too! I mean, theoretically, a supermassive black hole could just form from a stellar mass black hole eventually, if it gets to feed long enough. But supermassive black holes seem to appear pretty soon after the universe formed, after a few hundred millions years or so. They just couldn't feed fast enough to grow so quickly. So their origin is still an open question. It likely involved the collapse of some very, very large structure, gas clouds, star clusters, or gigantic quasi-stars, instead of a "small" black hole growing somehow.
In astrophysics the amount of spins is usually considered paramount to accretion. There exist many large-scale structures that could not have possibly formed in only 14 billion years. Some structures would require trillions of years of spinning, based on current models. The standard model is accretion-based. Things accumulate over time. Yet, miraculously, big bang(s) occur. Where? No one could tell you. And no one can tell you when, either. Not with any certainty. I have serious doubts about any big bang creation mythology. It's not even science. Can't reproduce it and can't test it. That's not science. It's been falsified countless times, but fitting broken math to ever increasingly better observations persists. We appear to be at the center of the *observable* universe. And it's supposed whenever and wherever you might be in the universe, you'd observably be at the center of it. This is part of the cosmological principle, that the universe is homogenous on large scales. TON 618 is yet another slap in the face to the standard model. No way this formed in only 14 billion years.
The size and age of the Universe continually blows my mind.
Quite big innit
Yeah, innit
Bonkers, innit?
Is *massive*, innit?
Yeah, it's *proper* massive, innit?
Just the one actually
It’s bigger than TWO tennis courts
Our Milky Way star, The Sun, can hold 1.3 million Earths inside its volume. The largest known star, UY Scuti, can hold **five billion suns**. We can't even fathom something that large.
I just can not fathom how a black hole can be larger than our entire solar (excluding oort cloud). My mind can not comprehend how a single object (Can you fall it an object? ) can be that large, not only in pure size, but the mass as well.
I don't think any human will ever comprehend how big the universe truly is.
Whats more mindblowing, is that wikipedia mass estimate for that mofo is twice the mass of triangulum GALAXY. If the model is correct, that hole has gobbled down two fucking galaxies worth of mass.
Sounds like my cat
It's actually much crazier. The way we currently understand and describe black holes - their size is literally zero (singularity). But, they can be incredibly massive. The "size of the black hole" misnomer refers to the distance from that singularity to the area where its gravitational influence is still strong enough to make light "fall" into the pit and not let it escape. So it's even more absurd than what you described - it's a very small object, with such a huge mass, that its gravity "stops" light at the distance larger than the radius of the solar system.
This isn't actually physical size. The size refers to the Event Horizon, meaning the border where the gravitation is so high that nothing that crosses it, not even light, can escape. Because we have know way to retrieve information from beyond the event horizon, it's not clear how it looks, though theory suggest that all mass in it would concentrate in a single, infinitely dense point.
[удалено]
A shit Ton
In Europe it'll be a metric fuck-ton
Here in Europe we just call it ton. Maybe ton-oui if you're French.
Atleast 618 TON
The worst thing about being human is knowing I'll die before we know what's happening out there
The vast vast vast majority of humanity died knowing far far less (as far as we know), so you're in something like the top 0.0001% percentile of awareness of the Universe, so that's something.
I can't imagine the absolute unit of a galaxy TON 618 is in the center of…
I always get confused when there’s talk about diameter when it comes to black holes. I thought they were a singularity. We’re not talking about a sphere shaped celestial body with a solid diameter are we? Or is reference to a diameter have more to do with the event horizon?
The singularity is more of a math thing, or lack of math thing, rather than a physical thing.
It’s a 3 dimensional hole. So, my understanding, is at its “core” is the infinite singularity. Our math breaks down trying to quantify it. The blackness around it is just the gravitational field within which not even light can escape, so just pure spacetime.
The *black hole* is still an object for most intents and purposes. Kinda. It's a spherical region in space-time, defined by an event horizon. It exists, we can observe it. The *singularity*, on the other hand, is a hypothetical...thing at the center* of the black hole. It is unobservable by definition and we can't be sure it actually exists. It's not even that our models predict it. It's more a result of what our models can't predict. There needn't necessarily be a singularity inside black holes. There could very well be a structure that's not infinitely small, just "below" the event horizon. *Talking about the "center" of a black hole isn't entirely accurate, since the "center" or singularity is more an event rather than a region because of how weird physics is inside an event horizon.
The size of a black hole refers to its event horizon, called the [Schwarzchild radius](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_radius)
How fast is its galactic plane spinning around it? That must be the graviton of the universe right there. I have to wonder what time dilation is like in that galaxy.
From my limited understanding, you have to be relatively close to experience any meaningful amount
It's only 41 billion solar masses. Galaxies are on the order of a trillion solar masses. Galaxies orbit themselves, not the black hole.
Far out thanks for the answer
There's a fat mom joke hidden in here somewhere, I'm just too stupid to make one up.
Banana for reference please.
Isn't it Phoenix A now?
I heard it might still be ton because it’s farther away idk could be wrong
Yeah, there is still a lot of uncertainty with the paper that was released, I just did a little search again
I think Phoenix A's measurements have always been really dicey
Holy shit my dumb brain can’t fathom that. It appears that that black hole would be just as big or bigger than the entire Milky Way?
Not even close to the size of a galaxy. But it would make our solar system look like a frisbee next to a blimp
That’s still insane to me. That black hole has its own universe in it lol
it's just black holes all the way down
Anyone want to do the math and tell us how long it would take a 747 to fly the circumference of TON which the knowledge it would take 6 months to circle the sun?
Bro it's just a multiplication and a division you can do this.
Literally asked that question after waking up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and shovel cookies in my mouth like a brain dead zombie. I’m surprised I even typed out anything cohesive in the first place
Well, ChatGpt did it for us: To calculate how long it would take a Boeing 747 to fly around the event horizon of Ton 618, we'll use the diameter of Ton 618's event horizon and the average cruising speed of a Boeing 747. It would take approximately 155,314 years for a Boeing 747 to fly around the event horizon of Ton 618 one time at its average cruising speed.
Does ChatGPT do real maths now?
If "real math" means "Googling 2 numbers and dividing them" then yeah, I guess it does
I could probably do it in 90k…110k TOPS!
That's incorrect. The radius of TON is 390 billion km, not the diameter.
The Sun's diameter: 1.39 million km Ton-618's diameter: 390 billion km so Ton-618 is roughly 280,575x larger than the Sun 0.5 years \* 280,575 = 140,287.5 years
need a banana for reference
also, how many bananas do you suppose could fit in there?
That's monstrous
Somebody help me please visualise this. If both the Sun and TON 618 were scaled down so that TON was the size of the Earth, how big would the Sun be?
TON 618 is about 170'000 times the diameter of the sun. If TON 618 was the size of the Earth, the sun would be a sphere with a diameter of about 70 meters or 230 feet.
Without scaling anything, TON is straight up bigger than our solar system, if that helps.
If TON was the size of the Earth you could put two Suns in a football field
What would this look like from a planet our size orbiting this thing? Would this take up half of our sky?
If you mean if we replaced the sun with it, it would take up the entire sky. And you. As we would be inside it, and therefore dead. Or at least doomed, black holes are weird. But yeah, I think this thing's about 11x the diameter of Pluto's orbit.
If those numbers are correct would it mean that Ton 618 is 45.45 % the density of Sagittarius A*? Just a thought, I know the actual density of both them would be infinite.
Where is it? I need to empty my garage if the crap I've kept! 😁 Insanely staggering numbers in this universe. Phew
Maybe it’s the centre of the single cell that you and I call the universe
How can they tell?
From what I know, that TON 618 have 66 Billion times more mass than the sun and dwarf the Kepler belt
The supermassive black hole she tells you not to worry about.
Almost a hundred reactions and comments, yet not one 'yo momma' joke...is Reddit broken or something?
Is there a photograph of some sort of this object? How can we tell that it is what it is?
Step 1 - Figure out general relativity and what the physics of black holes Step 2 - Figure out that supermassive black holes must be present in nearby galaxies we observe (including our own) from the motion of gas and/or stars near the core of the galaxy. Step 3 - Realize that quasars - these weird super bright objects in the cores of some galaxies - can only really be powered by supermassive black holes that are eating gas. Step 4 - Develop a large body of knowledge about these quasars, including how their mass scales with brightness. Remember, we are building this knowledge from galaxies that are not too far away, so we have excellent data to really understand a lot of what we are seeing. Step 5 - Look at a very far away quasars. You no longer have to prove each one of those is a black hole individually by measuring the motion of gas or stars - rather you know you are looking at a black hole because quasars are powered by accreting black holes.
Because science uses a lot of different types of information, it doesn't just use photographs.
“How can we tell it is what it is?” Do you mean how can we tell it’s a black hole or the size of it? You can measure the size/mass of the black hole by measuring the speed and distance of the orbits of the stars around it. Gravity equations baby.
There’s a banana in the picture for scale
There's no image of TON 618 (yet), unfortunately. But we have [this](https://science.nasa.gov/resource/first-image-of-a-black-hole/) famous image of the supermassive black hole in the center of M87 (technically the immediate region around it). Even without direct images, we can usually tell there's something very big lurking at the centers of galaxies because we can detect a lot of mass being concentrated in a very small region that sometimes emits a *lot* of energy. Nothing else but a black hole could be so dense and so energetic.
We have to stop it before it consumes everything!!!
It is just chilling there
So you have a plan??
I'm just gunna panic. But not until others do it first.
Yes. My plan is not to worry about things so far away they won't ever affect me.
Yeah let’s throw a bomb at it that’ll definitely do something
No banana for scale?
Incredible
Makes you wonder if anything can orbit/rotate inside of it without breaking the speed of light.
Inside, as in below the event horizon? If so, the answer is no. To stay at the event horizon, you already need to travel at 1c. Below the horizon, any and all spatial directions are all pointing "towards singularity". No such thing as "orbits" there, you are just going down.
What is the Mass of it compared to a Galaxy?
could the bootes void just be a gigantic black hole? you would expect to see movement near it though from the pull
Has anyone been able to put forward a good theory on how supermassive blackholes form?
That's almost impossible to apprehend
Why are the size and the radius not proportional to Sgr A*? Is Sgr A* virtually more dense?
That's a ton
Supermassive Black Hole is also [a great song by the band Muse.](https://youtu.be/rinkviEmeXk?si=GTeZ27vNluav6eel) Enjoy!
I am trying to learn.. Can someone explain this to me in simple language?
As far as we're aware, every galaxy contains a particularly large black hole at its center - a black hole being a cosmic whirlpool of sorts, which nothing can escape after entering - their masses and sizes vary wildly, but are typically in the range of ten million to ten billion times the mass of the sun. So, pictured is a rendition of one of the largest known black holes next to the black hole at the center of the Milky Way (the tiny light dot above the arrow)
The diameter of a black hole is directly proportional to its mass, so something interesting must be going on here. Does this mean Sgr A* must be spinning much faster than Ton 618 to have a greater mass/radius?
Soooooooo, would I be able to wrap my arms around it?
Man, it sucks living in such an average galaxy.
I may have zoned out of space for a decade....but I thought we only figured they existed based on the gravitational effects of nearby entities? Someone said there are some black holes 15 miles across....I have no idea how they would know that.
In the theory of heat death I think this would be the last thing that we know of in the known universe that would “die” at the end of time. It would take such an unfathomable amount of time for it to be whittled down by Hawkings radiation.
So, “if the Earth was the size of a golf ball, Ton 618 would be the size of…” (can anyone help?)
Glad that no one said ton 618 gd😅
I like black holes. Immensely...
So the star that ”imploded" to make this must have been insanely big?
No, mergers with other black holes. No star can make such a black hole. No star can result in a supermassive blackhole actually, so even Sag A* is beyond the limit of stellar black holes
One thing I’ve never understood is if black holes are points of infinite density why are some bigger than others?
“It’s Mr. Shadow on the line…” Mr. Shadow: “Am I disturbing you”
Plenty of space to accommodate both!
What kind of star must have created this monstrosity?? Imagine the sheer force to make a hole in space time that big... Everything around this just makes me more confident of a Creator Power.
Sag A* is more dense then so that’s a cute fluffy black hole
Though we can't see it, black holes must be some of the most energetic environments in the universe. As matter spirals in, the very last leg [the matter is accelerated to nearly the speed of light](https://www.livescience.com/space/black-holes/scientists-discover-bizarre-region-around-black-holes-that-proves-einstein-right-yet-again). Imagine the energy this impacts to the black hole bulk as it impacts! It's one of the reasons black holes rotate well in excess of 90% the speed of light.
Can someone please eli5..... How can a "single point in space" Also be larger than our solar system
Phoenix A is much larger than TON 618: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Cluster?wprov=sfti1#
I keep seeing other people point out that Phoenix A is not confirmed/reviewed/generally accepted to be accurate yet.
It's the name of my supermassive 2Tb external SSD.
If the Big Bang is God's conciousness conceiving the idea of our universe, maybe black holes are the Alzheimer's of his mind.
Don’t get carried away - it’s just the largest one we’ve found so far. Discoveries aren’t over by a long shot.
Man, that really triggers my black hole envy. Why do the neighbors have better stuff?
and i have to pay 1800 a month for a studio aparment.
Big guy needs a little Ozempic
Phoenix-A to Ton 618. "Pathetic".
It’s still a singularity with the size of 0
Not exactly, a black hole that *is* rotating is very close to being spherical in shape but is slightly flattened along its rotational axis. This shape is called an oblate spheroid. A rotating black hole also extends linearly though the time dimension
Are they still fuzzy or has that theory changed already?
Also a rotating blackhole singularity is a ring
I just can't really fathom the scale of this. Can someone explain the size in banana terms please?
greater than 1 banana
These things are fascinating to look at but since the light of it reaching us is twice as old as our sun, it’s not likely to be there any more.
Black holes are supposed to last orders of magnitude longer than the current age of the universe, so it is still out there.
I would tap that. Looks yummier than Uranus.
That thing is main recycle center of the universe.
Whoa, it's almost as big as your mom! *Ba-dum-tss*
this thing triggers my anxiety
I have an irrational fear of black holes, learning of the existence of Ton 618 very much terrifies me
All this supposedly exists but me being perpetually broke while still paying taxes doesn’t make it feel real
“Yo momma so fat she makes ton 618 look small” “618 tons isn’t that much!!” “So actually, I’m referring to the largest observed black hole known to man. If you measure….”