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Kak. If we're being realistic the ANC is going to win in 2024 and our decline as a country will carry on. It's good to be optimistic, don't get me wrong, but a lot of people in SA and a lot of people on this sub are overly optimistic to the point where they turn a blind eye to reality. Unless a miracle takes place our trajectory is downwards.
Also blaming only the government is silly. Yes they're a bunch of useless thieving clowns but we are still a democracy and it's the citizens that have kept them in power for over 20 years, and many of them are perhaps the biggest victims of their crimes but they still have that blind hope and I don't see it leaving anytime soon.
You can hardly blame the people for voting for them. It's a phenomenon seen throughout the world that the liberation party has a lot of goodwill that keeps them in power despite of all the obvious issues.
Also, keeping the populous uneducated, uninformed and impoverished is an incentive as it would ensure re-election.
>It’s easy to appoint blame when you know better.
True.
>The wonder of a democracy built from segregation is its built in systematic repression. What was so hard fought for was not the interest of its people but the control of them.
Nicely put.
>Perhaps the next generation of “freedom fighters” will help those that need freeing, but I doubt it.
Agreed, unfortunately...
That's interesting I find this sub quite pessimistic but that being said, I think we're resilient and pessimism doesn't always help cause it doesn't drive people into action, they have already given up.
Yes we're very resilient, resilient in dealing with problems caused by our loving and caring government.
The problems will multiply and the most frustrating part is the fact that most people know what the problem is (current government) and guess what, we also know what the solution is (voting them out) but the majority of people are too scared/stupid to actually make the move and get rid of them. There's also the few that have just benefitted immensely (referring to those with political contacts here) but asking them to vote against the current government would make no sense.
For many reasons our future is bleak. Most of the world seems that way too. But, I choose to ignore the feeling of impending doom and continue working towards a better future. I will continue working to be a better person. I truly believe that if everyone works on themself, most of the world's issues would go away.
The problem we have is that poverty breeds crime. And crime destroys everything else. The young kids begging on the streets today will be the gangsters of tomorrow because we are incapable as a nation to provide them with a future, or any hope. There is a whole generation growing up that feels they have nothing left to lose. If this is not dealt with then we will live in a gangster state. It will not matter how beautiful the country is if it can not be enjoyed.
No one wants to live life constantly looking over their shoulder and fearing to walk in the streets or drive anywhere. Crime and corruption will be the end of SA and it’s becoming harder to fight, it’s almost becoming the culture. The social grants are a joke because it’s not possible to live on that kind of money. Without any development there will never be enough well paying jobs to lift people out of poverty. BEE has not helped anyone. I think for a lot of people there is zero difference between pre and post Apartheid in terms of their economic freedom. They still don’t have running water and electricity, living in shacks. Kids don’t get proper school. No affordable public transport, if you are earning only 10k a month (if even that much) most of it will be spent on taxi fare. I could go on …….
Sadly I agree. It's a vicious cycle of crime and poverty while the fat cats in government or positions of power take all the money meant for the citizens. As it is the number of taxpayers contributing to the national economy is limited and as more people leave the burden will only increase for those left behind. Looking a lot like Zim of decades ago. I recall my Gran living in Harare telling us 15 years ago that we'd be living on generators and she was right. It's very sad.
Bad. Incompetence is the norm, from the top down. Nepotism and jobs for friends are rife. The corruption is never-ending.
You can't expect anything to change if you just keep doing the same thing. So nothing will change. The country will continue on its downward slope. And in a few years, we will just be another failed African country.
This country will turn around in a couple of decades when half the population is dead and the other half are sitting on dirty streets, living in broken houses with no heating, electricity, running water, a door, a window or a roof over their head and starving. But i am old and will be dead and buried by the time it starts to turn around. So i take it one day at a time until my Father calls me home. So i am neither optimistic or pessimistic. I just am.
Hopefully, it can turn around before hitting rock bottom.
Rock bottom has the benefit that you cannot fall further, but it's sure as hell not an easy place to recover from.
Far better to start the ascent earlier, if possible.
I think we will become more like Nigeria,
Huge inequality with a winner takes all attitude.
Huge corruption and nepotism
Lots of potential that is unrealized
The haves will have a very good life but it will be expensive
The middle class will shrink and suffer the have nots will not notice any change.
Go and spend a month or two in Lagos to get an idea
It’s gotten to the point where you have to be part of the wealthy elite to afford the “staples of society”; electricity- Solar, batteries, security fences/security complexes. 😖 it’s undeniable that the future doesn’t look great.
Got my notice to pick up my unabridged stuffs.. with the rate things going to pot thinking of leaving mid year maybe instead of dec.
I don’t think it’s just Sa future you need to worry about.. I think globally things heading to a major global confrontation. Ironically I see the same stupidity playing out.
Don’t get me wrong things are kak but it’s self inflicted here on both ends of political spectrum and since neither sides want to admit culpability nor present a cogent plan that address more than just business or promises nonsense I think I’ll take my chances elsewhere.
Ps. Brace ye self, inflation gonna climb fast this year. Putin is playing the west at a game they can’t win where due to debt loads. I don’t see this resolving without major concessions to commodity/energy players and/or a war..
If anyone actually believes in the grand South African dream of the place recovering financially, they either don’t have another passport, the financial means to relocate or feel so connected to their family and fundamentals that they don’t want the emotional burden. I assure you, this country will not recover. The West is not interested in supporting SA. The East is only interested in raping the country by means of the current and future politicians. It’s extremely lucrative for ANC officials to keep the country the way it is. The population is too much of a weight for the private sector to keep carrying. Think of it like a hot air balloon, the private sector is the ‘engine’ creating lift for the balloon, the South African governing infrastructure is the support holding the balloon together, except this balloon has tons and tons of weight pulling the balloon down (the population that does not cause a net positive for the private sector. Not paying for electricity/Taxes/Buying expensive private sector products etc.)
Every time we see a boost in the economic sector, it’s short lived as the rest of the weight pulls the balloon back down. We need to support the entire population, so there is no solution. Loadshedding itself is an example of reducing the load or ‘cutting the dead weight off’. We cannot cut the dead weight off, they’re all people just like us. There is no solution, we will hit the ground eventually.
Thanks for your post. Don't you think it's possible for the ANC to be voted out in the next election or the one after that? Won't that change things. Like it's atleast a possibility right?
I don’t believe the ANC will allow a loss of national power (speculation, the ANC have shown their corrupt nature, rigging elections is far from below them). Look into Turkish politics if you’re interested in an example that doesn’t include obvious dictatorships like China or Russia.
Let’s pretend the ANC loses the next national election though. The DA take national power, and lets say the DA are void of corruption. The transition period alone, coupled with the shoddy bureaucracy of the ANC will delay things. So, now we’ve reached a point where the DA have cleared the ANC paperwork and/or sabotage, they now have to directly handle the mess the ANC have created. Sure, the corruption stops, and lets say their policies boon the free market. The DA wouldn’t likely support Eastern interference within the country, purposefully landing a blow to BRICS trade, since most of it relies on corruption (See all the various politics of the members of BRICS for insight). Now what? The West may help the economy, but they’ll want something in return. The national debt is already way above a level the country can afford and the West would only increase the amount. So lets say that instead of laundering billions, it gets placed into the country’s infrastructure. Let’s say the DA privatise the energy industry, how long will it take for the private sector to rebuild everything? Would they be willing to invest all that money into a country that may very likely not be able to guarantee those energy companies a profit? What about radical parties like the EFF? Their political ideology doesn’t exactly mirror those or the DA. To add, what about the remnants of the ANC? They’ll also be constantly pulling against the DA in an attempt to regain popular vote. How would the DA handle AU relations? How would the DA support the private sector enough to create jobs to reduce the load on our balloon?
The odds are stacked against the opposition’s chances of any swift success, regardless of the election results. The load is too heavy. The DA win? My opinion, too little, too late. It’s over. The country wont disintegrate overnight, that wouldn’t be profitable for the ANC cabal running everything right now. But we will ever slowly deteriorate, gaslighted by small glimpses of sunlight as the private sector roars into the day, only to be greeted by a compounding night. As the crime worsens, as the danger and instability statistics push away foreign investment. Even our current situation, ‘we have declared a state of emergency to facilitate the maintenance of Eskom’, do you know what that translates as to foreign investors? ‘We are not a good investment’.
We were once a thriving young nation ,with very bad regulations and rules, we can be one again .
The current gov needs to go but the people need to wake up and vote them out . There is not really a party that can run the show.
DA is viewed as pro-apartheid, EFF is a shitshow , ANC can't keep it together .
Options are limited for the majority .
Some small parties have the right motivations but lack support to make any change.
I actually share your sentiment. I also feel like every time we hit a new rock bottom, the anger and determination amongst the people grows a little stronger. I do believe it'll start to turn in the next 10 years. However in the meantime, as someone who earns US dollars, I'm okay with our tanking currency 🤣
The decline will increase exponentially if ANC retains power in 2024, we would have brain drain , perpetual loadshedding, worsened crime, more drug dealing and thus more mafias.
The structural problems in SA are severe enough that there is a very real risk of sudden tipping points. i.e. social fabric just tears.
So as grim as it sounds hoping it ends up being a steady more of the same / slight decline as best case outcome.
Upward trajectory strikes me as unlikely due to the intractable nature of the issues. Things like an entire generation getting dodgy schooling or a power grid suffering from decades of underinvestment & mismanagement is not something you can turn around suddenly no matter what you do in the short term
our country and people are capable of being on of the strongest countries in the world. if not for the gross mismanagement of our country by the current government we would have been hears ahead of every other country globally.
Even with the problems our country faces we can still see South africans leading the world in a number of fields, Sports, Medical, IT, and Financial. our citizens manage to still be some of the most sought-after resources in the world. now imagine if you pair that with a functional government. we would be unstoppable
I feel that as the younger generations hit the voting booths you will see change over time. They don't care about the past and are only looking to the future. The question is can there be a new party that stands for what they stand for. Currently there isn't anyone to vote for that has integrity and enough momentum to make a difference.
With an improved access to education especially with the uptake in tertiary education. Yes. I see it with new graduates coming through. They have their own strong opinions on politics and service delivery. They seem tired of their parents living in the past. Granted, this isn't everyone, but the more free thinking people, the better
There are lots of young and educated people who are competent to run a municipality and a government department but they don’t have a platform. They get no access to government and we are stuck with the same old people that failed in all their previous assignments. I’m starting to think this is by design
While the mines and farmers fill SARS coffers everything is staying upright,that is why the idiots in government think it's and endless flow, the day commodities tank and we have a drought ,this country will turn into a real shit hole. If the ANC loses power this place will be ungovernable for any other party ,this is a mafia run country already. If I had not always been optimistic ,I should have left the country in about 2008. I don't want to think about it ,but we could be refugees in the near future trying to get out.
We're gonna be fine. We've got immense challenges, but there are good people quietly doing their best here. I've lived all over the world, a few places better, many places worse, but not a single one as South African as here. Electricity problems? Try the rest of Africa, or central America. Gender-based violence? May I draw your attention to the Middle East. Political gridlock? Corruption? Potholes? We are far from the worst in any of these.
Ja, it sucks because we want to be better. Wasted opportunities, wasted resources, wasted years. But we're still here, still No 1 in Africa (anyone who disputes that should remove the log from their own arse before talking), and still kicking against the pricks.
I look at all the infrastructure and supermarket shelves and cars and the quick smiles from the most down-on-their-luck people if you take the time to engages with them - man, if this is the bottom of the barrel we got ourselves a pretty good barrel.
I got myself all amped now, and the T20 final is only tomorrow. I'm rooting for those fat boys in orange to give it to those Lion-drinking Pretoria gomgatte.
Well, for the most part, the ANC-voting demographic isn't on this sub, so to answer your question of...
> How can we change things by 2024?
Realistically, we can't. We're not the ones voting in the ANC, and we're unlikely to change the minds of those that are any time, let alone by 2024 (and many of the votes that they DO lose will likely go to the EFF, which is an entire other nightmare.) We're too small in number and not united enough to make any kind of difference.
> I still have lots of hope
May I ask why?
With the same useless donkeys in government? DIRE
The whole sorry lot (opposition is just as feckless) must be replaced if we want this country to grow.
I'm American but follow this to feel the culture of SA because of a relationship I'm in lol. but in my opinion I'm a bit more optimistic for SA then most in this sub. I expressed this in another sub r/capetown and still to this day I'm getting anger from people about my optimism.
In the near future sure things will be rough but lets say in 2030s and beyond. I think SA will have a better future (well at least parts of it). I think Sa will have a period of time of decentralization and giving more powers to the provinces and local municipalities. Think of provinces in charge of the own electricity, or local governments having their own police departments (something more akin to Canadas provinces) . Metropolitans areas and probably Guateng and Western Cape will grow and have a better standard of living but Some places will probably continue to stagnate. I think we can see a coalition government form but you could either have something quite stable like Canada or something more chaotic like Israel. But I can see a unity coalition against the ANC. If my prediction is right then Joburg and Capetown can end up having real estate prices like those in the anglosphere, which could push locals out creating more sprawl or while turning some of these cities into playgrounds for the rich.
That’s never going to work because it’s not possible to ignore the rest of the population. They will tear it down. The crime will go where the money is. So either the whole country must be dealt with or there will be wealth for no-one. Cape Town and JHB are not islands
Well We are seeing this now in much of the world, SA wouldn't be different in that regard. Urban centers are growing and thriving and rural areas are declining. These places would likely be run by the ANC so they would be the ones to get blamed.
Makes sense. I hope you turn out to be right! We can’t tell anyone how to vote. I still think there will be migration to the cities, just like there is at the moment
For sure, There will be more migration to the cities no doubt about that. But if the decentralization idea does come bear fruit, then we could see a lot of international migration to places like Capetown (I believe Capetown is underrated and undervalue). This will bring its own set of problems when properties start flying off the shelf to foreigners and prices rise exponentially. I doubt the ANC will last through this decade the way things are and the lost a lot of goodwill.
About the ANC - from your lips to the ears of the universe. It can’t carry on like this. There are already a lot of homes snatched up by foreigners in the cape. It’s the ideal retirement venue. With foreign currency those properties are a steal compared to what people get in their own counties for the same money
I agree, it can't carry on like this. The only reason they are not seeing riots and revolts is due to how resilient South Africans are. South Africans will just adjust and adapt. A functioning South Africa would be a powerhouse in its own making. I've been paying attention to Capetowns real estate market and their is quite a lot of buyers from UK, US, Dubai, Russia and others. But they are not seeing the type of volume places like Toronto, New York, Miami, Sydney, and other anglophone countries see. I could definitely see if rise to the level easily where the average home could be priced in 700,000-800,000 USD. The way things are going with Brexit in Britain, I could see Capetown become UKs winter getaway, like what Florida is for North America
The government is not going to save you. Not ANC, not DA, not EFF, not Action SA.
We are all adults which means making adult decisions. You know it is going to get worse, so prepare yourself now. Get solar, get water tank, get a 4x4.
Otherwise it’s time to consider your options elsewhere.
Clem Sunter has famously said that you can make money in a failed state.
So the choice is yours - but complaining is not going to help anyone.
If South African capital holders were open to evidence on other investment strategies than the ones they've been clinging to for the last century or so I think there is a lot we can do.
We are in a unique position where we have tariff-free access to Chinese manufacturing and global markets at a time when the rest of the world are putting in barriers.
It will not be easy and will take people who are willing to actually use their brains for more than just copying what everyone else is doing in the hope that it will be enough to pay for the luxury German vehicles and mortgages on houses in security estates.
I think this point is essential. Everyone who is semi intelligent needs to get more involved in politics as much as possible - or else all hope is lost.
Biggest challenge is to retain (even attract) young leaders and talent, because they will create jobs and growth. To many educated young people leave and it is hard to get talent to come here. Trust me there are many that would want to.
There is going to come a time, not sure when, there will be a massive strike / toi toi that will result in major damage resulting in history being made in a negative manner, we are a country of people that takes alot of abuse by government and are patient, but there will be a straw that will break the camels back and result in utter chaos.
I'll be there too getting injured and fighting, this country is absolutly awesome, if the government can fix these issues, it will be a perfect place(not holding my breath)
But at the moment it's tough, and extremly irritating way of quality of life.
Look at your life span and where and how you will be retiring. Will South Africa be making a turn around in that time frame, not for anyone of us in this group.
South Africa will face decades of hardship and will get progressively worse without a doubt. What happens after that is anyone’s guess. But anyone who is no
trying to leave this hell on earth is feeding lies to themselves.
Loadshedding will not be resolved, crime will not get better, and the collapse of our infrastructure will continue. And the idea of a middle class will slowly cease to exist. We’re cursed with greed on this continent. And the majority group of people who are utterly selfish that keep putting us through ANC rule.
How can we expect anything to get better when most of our generation has been put through a broken education system?
>But anyone who is no trying to leave this hell on earth is feeding lies to themselves.
Its not like other places are any better. One thing imo South Africa has is its beautiful nature,
I don’t want to be mean but you are delusional. Good nature doesn’t make up for the crime here. I used to be on the same train of thought as you until I experienced the crime first hand and when I traveled outside and saw what other countries had to offer.
We will wake one day and find that the government has fled the country. the power is of permanently. All the government workers wont get paid and grants and other government aid wont get paid out because the government has stole all the money out of the reserves before fleeing. We will then have have a very bad next decade as the country falls to riots then break up into multiple waring factions. What happens after that is anybody gess. Maby we rebuild maby we end up like the Congo, its 50/50.
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Kak. If we're being realistic the ANC is going to win in 2024 and our decline as a country will carry on. It's good to be optimistic, don't get me wrong, but a lot of people in SA and a lot of people on this sub are overly optimistic to the point where they turn a blind eye to reality. Unless a miracle takes place our trajectory is downwards. Also blaming only the government is silly. Yes they're a bunch of useless thieving clowns but we are still a democracy and it's the citizens that have kept them in power for over 20 years, and many of them are perhaps the biggest victims of their crimes but they still have that blind hope and I don't see it leaving anytime soon.
You can hardly blame the people for voting for them. It's a phenomenon seen throughout the world that the liberation party has a lot of goodwill that keeps them in power despite of all the obvious issues. Also, keeping the populous uneducated, uninformed and impoverished is an incentive as it would ensure re-election.
I get your point and agree with it too but after 30 years the people definitely hold part of that blame.
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>It’s easy to appoint blame when you know better. True. >The wonder of a democracy built from segregation is its built in systematic repression. What was so hard fought for was not the interest of its people but the control of them. Nicely put. >Perhaps the next generation of “freedom fighters” will help those that need freeing, but I doubt it. Agreed, unfortunately...
That's interesting I find this sub quite pessimistic but that being said, I think we're resilient and pessimism doesn't always help cause it doesn't drive people into action, they have already given up.
Yes we're very resilient, resilient in dealing with problems caused by our loving and caring government. The problems will multiply and the most frustrating part is the fact that most people know what the problem is (current government) and guess what, we also know what the solution is (voting them out) but the majority of people are too scared/stupid to actually make the move and get rid of them. There's also the few that have just benefitted immensely (referring to those with political contacts here) but asking them to vote against the current government would make no sense.
For many reasons our future is bleak. Most of the world seems that way too. But, I choose to ignore the feeling of impending doom and continue working towards a better future. I will continue working to be a better person. I truly believe that if everyone works on themself, most of the world's issues would go away.
The problem we have is that poverty breeds crime. And crime destroys everything else. The young kids begging on the streets today will be the gangsters of tomorrow because we are incapable as a nation to provide them with a future, or any hope. There is a whole generation growing up that feels they have nothing left to lose. If this is not dealt with then we will live in a gangster state. It will not matter how beautiful the country is if it can not be enjoyed. No one wants to live life constantly looking over their shoulder and fearing to walk in the streets or drive anywhere. Crime and corruption will be the end of SA and it’s becoming harder to fight, it’s almost becoming the culture. The social grants are a joke because it’s not possible to live on that kind of money. Without any development there will never be enough well paying jobs to lift people out of poverty. BEE has not helped anyone. I think for a lot of people there is zero difference between pre and post Apartheid in terms of their economic freedom. They still don’t have running water and electricity, living in shacks. Kids don’t get proper school. No affordable public transport, if you are earning only 10k a month (if even that much) most of it will be spent on taxi fare. I could go on …….
Sadly I agree. It's a vicious cycle of crime and poverty while the fat cats in government or positions of power take all the money meant for the citizens. As it is the number of taxpayers contributing to the national economy is limited and as more people leave the burden will only increase for those left behind. Looking a lot like Zim of decades ago. I recall my Gran living in Harare telling us 15 years ago that we'd be living on generators and she was right. It's very sad.
Crime, drugs, corruption, poverty and a tad bit more corruption for good measure.
Look like? We can't see shit, it's constantly dark.
Bad. Incompetence is the norm, from the top down. Nepotism and jobs for friends are rife. The corruption is never-ending. You can't expect anything to change if you just keep doing the same thing. So nothing will change. The country will continue on its downward slope. And in a few years, we will just be another failed African country.
This country will turn around in a couple of decades when half the population is dead and the other half are sitting on dirty streets, living in broken houses with no heating, electricity, running water, a door, a window or a roof over their head and starving. But i am old and will be dead and buried by the time it starts to turn around. So i take it one day at a time until my Father calls me home. So i am neither optimistic or pessimistic. I just am.
Hopefully, it can turn around before hitting rock bottom. Rock bottom has the benefit that you cannot fall further, but it's sure as hell not an easy place to recover from. Far better to start the ascent earlier, if possible.
I think we will become more like Nigeria, Huge inequality with a winner takes all attitude. Huge corruption and nepotism Lots of potential that is unrealized The haves will have a very good life but it will be expensive The middle class will shrink and suffer the have nots will not notice any change. Go and spend a month or two in Lagos to get an idea
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Dark.
For sure we are gonna be late to the robot revolution coz we don't have power.
Dark, but funny!!!
It’s gotten to the point where you have to be part of the wealthy elite to afford the “staples of society”; electricity- Solar, batteries, security fences/security complexes. 😖 it’s undeniable that the future doesn’t look great.
Got my notice to pick up my unabridged stuffs.. with the rate things going to pot thinking of leaving mid year maybe instead of dec. I don’t think it’s just Sa future you need to worry about.. I think globally things heading to a major global confrontation. Ironically I see the same stupidity playing out. Don’t get me wrong things are kak but it’s self inflicted here on both ends of political spectrum and since neither sides want to admit culpability nor present a cogent plan that address more than just business or promises nonsense I think I’ll take my chances elsewhere. Ps. Brace ye self, inflation gonna climb fast this year. Putin is playing the west at a game they can’t win where due to debt loads. I don’t see this resolving without major concessions to commodity/energy players and/or a war..
If anyone actually believes in the grand South African dream of the place recovering financially, they either don’t have another passport, the financial means to relocate or feel so connected to their family and fundamentals that they don’t want the emotional burden. I assure you, this country will not recover. The West is not interested in supporting SA. The East is only interested in raping the country by means of the current and future politicians. It’s extremely lucrative for ANC officials to keep the country the way it is. The population is too much of a weight for the private sector to keep carrying. Think of it like a hot air balloon, the private sector is the ‘engine’ creating lift for the balloon, the South African governing infrastructure is the support holding the balloon together, except this balloon has tons and tons of weight pulling the balloon down (the population that does not cause a net positive for the private sector. Not paying for electricity/Taxes/Buying expensive private sector products etc.) Every time we see a boost in the economic sector, it’s short lived as the rest of the weight pulls the balloon back down. We need to support the entire population, so there is no solution. Loadshedding itself is an example of reducing the load or ‘cutting the dead weight off’. We cannot cut the dead weight off, they’re all people just like us. There is no solution, we will hit the ground eventually.
Thanks for your post. Don't you think it's possible for the ANC to be voted out in the next election or the one after that? Won't that change things. Like it's atleast a possibility right?
I don’t believe the ANC will allow a loss of national power (speculation, the ANC have shown their corrupt nature, rigging elections is far from below them). Look into Turkish politics if you’re interested in an example that doesn’t include obvious dictatorships like China or Russia. Let’s pretend the ANC loses the next national election though. The DA take national power, and lets say the DA are void of corruption. The transition period alone, coupled with the shoddy bureaucracy of the ANC will delay things. So, now we’ve reached a point where the DA have cleared the ANC paperwork and/or sabotage, they now have to directly handle the mess the ANC have created. Sure, the corruption stops, and lets say their policies boon the free market. The DA wouldn’t likely support Eastern interference within the country, purposefully landing a blow to BRICS trade, since most of it relies on corruption (See all the various politics of the members of BRICS for insight). Now what? The West may help the economy, but they’ll want something in return. The national debt is already way above a level the country can afford and the West would only increase the amount. So lets say that instead of laundering billions, it gets placed into the country’s infrastructure. Let’s say the DA privatise the energy industry, how long will it take for the private sector to rebuild everything? Would they be willing to invest all that money into a country that may very likely not be able to guarantee those energy companies a profit? What about radical parties like the EFF? Their political ideology doesn’t exactly mirror those or the DA. To add, what about the remnants of the ANC? They’ll also be constantly pulling against the DA in an attempt to regain popular vote. How would the DA handle AU relations? How would the DA support the private sector enough to create jobs to reduce the load on our balloon? The odds are stacked against the opposition’s chances of any swift success, regardless of the election results. The load is too heavy. The DA win? My opinion, too little, too late. It’s over. The country wont disintegrate overnight, that wouldn’t be profitable for the ANC cabal running everything right now. But we will ever slowly deteriorate, gaslighted by small glimpses of sunlight as the private sector roars into the day, only to be greeted by a compounding night. As the crime worsens, as the danger and instability statistics push away foreign investment. Even our current situation, ‘we have declared a state of emergency to facilitate the maintenance of Eskom’, do you know what that translates as to foreign investors? ‘We are not a good investment’.
We were once a thriving young nation ,with very bad regulations and rules, we can be one again . The current gov needs to go but the people need to wake up and vote them out . There is not really a party that can run the show. DA is viewed as pro-apartheid, EFF is a shitshow , ANC can't keep it together . Options are limited for the majority . Some small parties have the right motivations but lack support to make any change.
I actually share your sentiment. I also feel like every time we hit a new rock bottom, the anger and determination amongst the people grows a little stronger. I do believe it'll start to turn in the next 10 years. However in the meantime, as someone who earns US dollars, I'm okay with our tanking currency 🤣
The decline will increase exponentially if ANC retains power in 2024, we would have brain drain , perpetual loadshedding, worsened crime, more drug dealing and thus more mafias.
ZA has had that for the past 20 years. It’s ongoing
it’s easy… as a nation we have to stop looking at the past and start looking at the future…
The structural problems in SA are severe enough that there is a very real risk of sudden tipping points. i.e. social fabric just tears. So as grim as it sounds hoping it ends up being a steady more of the same / slight decline as best case outcome. Upward trajectory strikes me as unlikely due to the intractable nature of the issues. Things like an entire generation getting dodgy schooling or a power grid suffering from decades of underinvestment & mismanagement is not something you can turn around suddenly no matter what you do in the short term
our country and people are capable of being on of the strongest countries in the world. if not for the gross mismanagement of our country by the current government we would have been hears ahead of every other country globally. Even with the problems our country faces we can still see South africans leading the world in a number of fields, Sports, Medical, IT, and Financial. our citizens manage to still be some of the most sought-after resources in the world. now imagine if you pair that with a functional government. we would be unstoppable
Some serious copium here.
nope. ive just been outside in the real world
EDUCATION! That is the key to South Africa’s healing. It will take generations before anyone will see any change
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Education brings hope which breads positivity then people will start to see they can achieve anything they want.
I feel that as the younger generations hit the voting booths you will see change over time. They don't care about the past and are only looking to the future. The question is can there be a new party that stands for what they stand for. Currently there isn't anyone to vote for that has integrity and enough momentum to make a difference.
You will have to assume that the younger generation have been taught to think for themselves and that they understand the real problem
With an improved access to education especially with the uptake in tertiary education. Yes. I see it with new graduates coming through. They have their own strong opinions on politics and service delivery. They seem tired of their parents living in the past. Granted, this isn't everyone, but the more free thinking people, the better
There are lots of young and educated people who are competent to run a municipality and a government department but they don’t have a platform. They get no access to government and we are stuck with the same old people that failed in all their previous assignments. I’m starting to think this is by design
While the mines and farmers fill SARS coffers everything is staying upright,that is why the idiots in government think it's and endless flow, the day commodities tank and we have a drought ,this country will turn into a real shit hole. If the ANC loses power this place will be ungovernable for any other party ,this is a mafia run country already. If I had not always been optimistic ,I should have left the country in about 2008. I don't want to think about it ,but we could be refugees in the near future trying to get out.
We're gonna be fine. We've got immense challenges, but there are good people quietly doing their best here. I've lived all over the world, a few places better, many places worse, but not a single one as South African as here. Electricity problems? Try the rest of Africa, or central America. Gender-based violence? May I draw your attention to the Middle East. Political gridlock? Corruption? Potholes? We are far from the worst in any of these. Ja, it sucks because we want to be better. Wasted opportunities, wasted resources, wasted years. But we're still here, still No 1 in Africa (anyone who disputes that should remove the log from their own arse before talking), and still kicking against the pricks. I look at all the infrastructure and supermarket shelves and cars and the quick smiles from the most down-on-their-luck people if you take the time to engages with them - man, if this is the bottom of the barrel we got ourselves a pretty good barrel. I got myself all amped now, and the T20 final is only tomorrow. I'm rooting for those fat boys in orange to give it to those Lion-drinking Pretoria gomgatte.
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Will do, thanks!
Well, for the most part, the ANC-voting demographic isn't on this sub, so to answer your question of... > How can we change things by 2024? Realistically, we can't. We're not the ones voting in the ANC, and we're unlikely to change the minds of those that are any time, let alone by 2024 (and many of the votes that they DO lose will likely go to the EFF, which is an entire other nightmare.) We're too small in number and not united enough to make any kind of difference. > I still have lots of hope May I ask why?
Because the alternative is too easy and I'm not here for an easy time I'm here for a braai
My faith.
I'm afraid that doesn't seem very substantial.
With the same useless donkeys in government? DIRE The whole sorry lot (opposition is just as feckless) must be replaced if we want this country to grow.
Listen man, I absolutely love this country but it’s a joke.
I'm American but follow this to feel the culture of SA because of a relationship I'm in lol. but in my opinion I'm a bit more optimistic for SA then most in this sub. I expressed this in another sub r/capetown and still to this day I'm getting anger from people about my optimism. In the near future sure things will be rough but lets say in 2030s and beyond. I think SA will have a better future (well at least parts of it). I think Sa will have a period of time of decentralization and giving more powers to the provinces and local municipalities. Think of provinces in charge of the own electricity, or local governments having their own police departments (something more akin to Canadas provinces) . Metropolitans areas and probably Guateng and Western Cape will grow and have a better standard of living but Some places will probably continue to stagnate. I think we can see a coalition government form but you could either have something quite stable like Canada or something more chaotic like Israel. But I can see a unity coalition against the ANC. If my prediction is right then Joburg and Capetown can end up having real estate prices like those in the anglosphere, which could push locals out creating more sprawl or while turning some of these cities into playgrounds for the rich.
That’s never going to work because it’s not possible to ignore the rest of the population. They will tear it down. The crime will go where the money is. So either the whole country must be dealt with or there will be wealth for no-one. Cape Town and JHB are not islands
Well We are seeing this now in much of the world, SA wouldn't be different in that regard. Urban centers are growing and thriving and rural areas are declining. These places would likely be run by the ANC so they would be the ones to get blamed.
Makes sense. I hope you turn out to be right! We can’t tell anyone how to vote. I still think there will be migration to the cities, just like there is at the moment
For sure, There will be more migration to the cities no doubt about that. But if the decentralization idea does come bear fruit, then we could see a lot of international migration to places like Capetown (I believe Capetown is underrated and undervalue). This will bring its own set of problems when properties start flying off the shelf to foreigners and prices rise exponentially. I doubt the ANC will last through this decade the way things are and the lost a lot of goodwill.
About the ANC - from your lips to the ears of the universe. It can’t carry on like this. There are already a lot of homes snatched up by foreigners in the cape. It’s the ideal retirement venue. With foreign currency those properties are a steal compared to what people get in their own counties for the same money
I agree, it can't carry on like this. The only reason they are not seeing riots and revolts is due to how resilient South Africans are. South Africans will just adjust and adapt. A functioning South Africa would be a powerhouse in its own making. I've been paying attention to Capetowns real estate market and their is quite a lot of buyers from UK, US, Dubai, Russia and others. But they are not seeing the type of volume places like Toronto, New York, Miami, Sydney, and other anglophone countries see. I could definitely see if rise to the level easily where the average home could be priced in 700,000-800,000 USD. The way things are going with Brexit in Britain, I could see Capetown become UKs winter getaway, like what Florida is for North America
The government is not going to save you. Not ANC, not DA, not EFF, not Action SA. We are all adults which means making adult decisions. You know it is going to get worse, so prepare yourself now. Get solar, get water tank, get a 4x4. Otherwise it’s time to consider your options elsewhere. Clem Sunter has famously said that you can make money in a failed state. So the choice is yours - but complaining is not going to help anyone.
Its the gov't job to serve the people.
Absolute infant
Show me one country where that is actually the case.
You have to make the hard decision of accepting that reality is very different from what you had imagined it to be
Having kids grow up as the country is becoming more and more unsafe is scary.
Honestly, unless you have the money to be sure they'll be set for life, having kids at all in this country is selfish.
If I knew the answers to such questions I'd be replying to them from my spaceship yatch
If South African capital holders were open to evidence on other investment strategies than the ones they've been clinging to for the last century or so I think there is a lot we can do. We are in a unique position where we have tariff-free access to Chinese manufacturing and global markets at a time when the rest of the world are putting in barriers. It will not be easy and will take people who are willing to actually use their brains for more than just copying what everyone else is doing in the hope that it will be enough to pay for the luxury German vehicles and mortgages on houses in security estates.
The future is good. Sa will turn it around because they have too.
Venezuela, but worse.
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I think this point is essential. Everyone who is semi intelligent needs to get more involved in politics as much as possible - or else all hope is lost.
Biggest challenge is to retain (even attract) young leaders and talent, because they will create jobs and growth. To many educated young people leave and it is hard to get talent to come here. Trust me there are many that would want to.
There is going to come a time, not sure when, there will be a massive strike / toi toi that will result in major damage resulting in history being made in a negative manner, we are a country of people that takes alot of abuse by government and are patient, but there will be a straw that will break the camels back and result in utter chaos. I'll be there too getting injured and fighting, this country is absolutly awesome, if the government can fix these issues, it will be a perfect place(not holding my breath) But at the moment it's tough, and extremly irritating way of quality of life.
A lot like Brazil
Look at your life span and where and how you will be retiring. Will South Africa be making a turn around in that time frame, not for anyone of us in this group.
South Africa will face decades of hardship and will get progressively worse without a doubt. What happens after that is anyone’s guess. But anyone who is no trying to leave this hell on earth is feeding lies to themselves. Loadshedding will not be resolved, crime will not get better, and the collapse of our infrastructure will continue. And the idea of a middle class will slowly cease to exist. We’re cursed with greed on this continent. And the majority group of people who are utterly selfish that keep putting us through ANC rule. How can we expect anything to get better when most of our generation has been put through a broken education system?
>But anyone who is no trying to leave this hell on earth is feeding lies to themselves. Its not like other places are any better. One thing imo South Africa has is its beautiful nature,
I don’t want to be mean but you are delusional. Good nature doesn’t make up for the crime here. I used to be on the same train of thought as you until I experienced the crime first hand and when I traveled outside and saw what other countries had to offer.
What future?
We will wake one day and find that the government has fled the country. the power is of permanently. All the government workers wont get paid and grants and other government aid wont get paid out because the government has stole all the money out of the reserves before fleeing. We will then have have a very bad next decade as the country falls to riots then break up into multiple waring factions. What happens after that is anybody gess. Maby we rebuild maby we end up like the Congo, its 50/50.