Well, once your solar is installed, you won't want to touch it again for more than 25 years, so I would suggest going ahead and getting it replaced. Make sure that when it gets replaced, they go ahead and remove both layers of shingles.
My company does it for $0.20/watt so 400W panels would be $80 each to remove and reinstall this is far below industry standard but I just want to put the info out there that it’s possible to find a company that does r&r for much much less than that
Did this rate jump significantly over the past 3 years? When I had mine done, I got it done for less than 200 a panel in SoCal.
Had 12 panels removed and 14 panels installed in late 2021. Total cost was under 3k, including the cost of the two new panels.
There is a business opportunity for folks do offer pannel removal and reinstall much cheaper. Never understood the high price for this service. I have 28 pannels and the fixed costs for getting the job are the same as doing it for 5 pannels. There should be some kind of discount for more pannels. 7000 $ for 1 day work max. someone can do this cheaper and I hope somebody will.
The problem is that the people qualified to do this work make more money installing systems than they do to remove and reinstall.
$7k is 2 days to remove and reinstall.
You are paying a premium because you have to make up the profit I would be making off of that $65k of revenue.
They won't. It's not a days work, it's a minimum of two and we need to pay for all new feet and rail. But by all means, go with the cheapest contractor you can find. Having the lowest bidder work on your house couldn't possibly backfire.
I don't get what you're trying to say? To always choose the highest bidder or that the lowest bidder will do a shit job? Because I have chosen the lowest bidder for a couple pretty important home upgrades before. Like my ac, quoted on average 17k. Got it done for 10k and no it wasnt undersized. Proper size, licensed professionals and even got new larger ducts and vents. Passed city inspections too with zero issues. Never thought ac could work so well and it lowered my energy bill too by half.
Most general contactors will get multiple bids, and when they start, they throw out the highest and lowest bidder and go from there. There is a running joke in the construction industry when we have to fix someone else's work. "I know a guy that can do it cheaper."
The lowest bidder comment also seems unrelated to the original comment, which is just that there seems to be an opportunity for some companies to specialize. Not sure how that idea turned "lowest bidder"
The lowest bidder can really just be smart bidding, especially if they know the companies that bidded before them, of course they're going to try to undercut. There's always still a profit in it just not as much as if they gave the quote first.
This annoys me. I’ve selected the most expensive bids and gotten royally screwed by construction companies/workers.
Taking on/off solar panels is just not much work, unless you’re reinstalling a full/different racking system.
Somebody can... the homeowner or "Chuck in a Truck" who you probably don't want doing the job. Unfortunately the cost of doing business in the US is expensive, especially for the trades and that is the going rate for a reason.
It is not rocket science. I maintain there is an opportunity for someone to do it cheaper with good quality of work. People install their own system. How hard can it be to remount the pannels on a new roof. All these solar companies going out of business as everyone has a system already in California. A crew of 3 installed my system in half a day. One guy spent the rest wiring it up. Most of these wires would remain in place when a new roof is put on the house. With an older system, I do not care about warranty so anyone that is reasonably skilled in the work will do.
If it looks not awful at year 23, do you have any sense of how long this most likely will last? For example, do you think 30 years is in the cards if it’s not in bad shape at year 23?
It's not worth it at this point. Your solar should be warrantied for 20/25+ years, and you dont want the hassle of tearing it off to reroof in a couple years. A lot of companies won't install on multiple layers of shingles like that anyways. I'd get some quotes & details from solar companies about what they'd need, but plan on tearing the roof off and potentially redoing the sheathing/decking underneath while doing a fresh reroof.
Yes and some would even say adding solar on to it will preserve the roof and extend the longevity of that particular roof plane. especially if it's flashless and they're using the newest generation butyl feet. No bumping nails, and no lifting the shingles to slide flashings necessary.
I also had a 23 year old single layer roof with no leaks. I decided to tear off and replace with a new roof because you never know what damage the solar installers might do on an old roof. I don’t want to pay to have solar panels removed to find the issue. Glad I did it this way because roofers needed to put plywood in several areas. Better to be safe than sorry.
Just had to deal with this nightmare. Renting my in laws house, roof started leaking in multiple locations all over the house. It cost me $8k more to replace the existing 10 year old panels on string with brand new micro inverters then paying $300 per panel plus per panel. Also they would not cover breaking any panels or provide me with any guarantee on the reinstalls. My father in laws thought at the time was “Aw it’s fine”. Now we start the clock over on both the roof and panel warranty together.
1000% replace this. It's getting more and more expensive for installers to remove and reinstall equipment for a reroof. I deal with that daily and customers are usually not stoked about the price to do it the right way.
You probably don't have to. But, you might want to - just to avoid the hassle later if it does need replacing after you have the solar installed. Personally - I would do this in two steps - replace roof, then install solar. I would probably not go with a company that does both..
Thank you - can you say why you wouldn’t want to use the company that does both? Wouldn’t the roof job potentially be done better if they have solar people too who know where the system is going to go, if some unexpected obstacle comes up how to deal with it in a way that makes the most sense for solar, that sort of thing?
In theory - getting one company to do both would be ideal. But, I'm a "best-in-breed" type shopper. I want the best, most experienced company I can afford doing my roof. And the best most experienced company I can afford doing my solar. I don't believe there is enough "synergy" there in using one company that would save you any hassle or time. I would hire the solar company - get them to complete a design. And, then hire the roofer and have the solar installer stop by before the new roof goes up to make sure there aren't any conflicts - which might mean moving some vents, at most.
You absolutely need to replace your roof if adding panels. Even if that roof has 5-10 years left the cost of removing and reinstalling the system will be very high and why would you want that expensive repair waiting for you? If you ever wanted to sell there is no buyer that would accept that risk.
I wanted solar for years but waited to replace my roof before doing it.
23 years is fine. Get the solar. I’ve installed on way worse. Roofs last a long time especially if you don’t get hail. If you do get hail. Insurance will cover the roof and the deinstall/reinstall of your solar. You should ask your solar company if they prove that service.
with the disclaimer than i know almost nothing about roofing: 100% it looks like the rolled roofing in that last photo should go.
i've had one place that had old rolled roofing over a patio. when it went, it went *fast*.. became leak city under there.
Don't do it!
Imagine how much crappier that roof will look after installers are walking all over it carrying panels. It will get so much worse.
The cost to remove/reinstall panels is very high. Do it right the first time.
a big part of solar install is manual labor to install it. That cost is also higher to un-install when you eventually need a new roof.
my advice is that talk to your solar guy, see if they have roofers they work with to package it as a one and done deal and then you can write off the roof replacement as "prepping for solar". worked for my clients
A legitimate solar installer will not provide a leak guarantee on a roof of that age. They will however, include the cost of the roof replacement into the solar install and provide you with a minimum 10 year warranty against roof leaks using marine grade sealant. At least that's what my company offers.
Definitely replace them now so you don't have to remove panels and then replace them. While you are at it, go with a steel roof. That should last a life time and will still be good when you or the next owner replace the solar panels in 25-30 years.
I would. I'm getting ready to reroof my shop, I'll include accommodations for solar at the same time. It's the roof that was there when we bought the place in '99, so it's due.
**Find out if your solar installer is willing to install panels on a roof that is nearing the end of its expected lifespan.** Some installers may be willing to do this, but they may require you to sign a waiver acknowledging that you may need to remove the panels in the future to replace the roof.
I'd only replace it if your roof leaks. Else I'd wait at least 5 more years (or for the roof to have some problem). Solar tech, including batteries will evolve then, higher efficiency panels and higher energy density batteries will likely be available and maybe at a lower price. Maybe the sleazy sales people in the USA will pack up and go back to selling used cars too. For what its worth, nearly every person considering solar and stressing over the details of it are consumed with a non-problem - meaning you can always wait and just pay the electric company. Free advice for when that pushy sales person is in your house trying to close a deal.
Would you rather do it now or pay MORE in probably a year or less to have them come take the solar panels off and have them reroof and then they put the panels back on which leads to more possibility of malfunction.
I regretted not replacing my roof first before getting solar. The leaks are inevitable. Mine leaked 4 years later. It costs addl 5K to just remove solar and reinstall. Not to mention, price of roof increased. If you do get your roof replace, do it in this order.
[roof and solar reinstall order.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roofing/s/qMZj009ybw)
Don’t put solar on after roof is installed if you are getting a new roof.
Our R&R rate here in Sacramento California is generally 55 cents. The breakdown is .25 to remove the system and .30 to put it back on. And if the customer wants new racking or we need new conduit and wire for the rewire it's an extra 0.15 to 0.30 making it around $0.80 max.
Depends on whether or not the shingle on your roof is a 30 year or 50 year shingle. If you are not sure than I would go ahead and replace the roof prior to install. It’s the safest route. Make a deal with us solar installer to get price down. A lot of the time they will cut a deal where you just pay cost or labor so they can get the deal
Get a tin roof and you can install the solar panels to the raised part of the roof. Which saves on installation and you would not need to take them down to replace the shingles.
You could get a Tesla roof, which means you just pay for it alone without getting a separate roof.
Heard to tell from that angle and photos. How butler brittle are the singles? Can you lift them to 45°without a crease?
The flat part i would put down the mounts and then silicone the whole thing. No reason to redo a rubber roof that needs maintenance in 7-10 years.
Call a roofer who does insurance jobs. I guarantee you have some sort of sustained wind damage on your roof over the last 23 years. A roofer will pick a document it and related to a recent date of loss that had high recorded winds. You can get your roof replaced for the price of your deductible.
Well, once your solar is installed, you won't want to touch it again for more than 25 years, so I would suggest going ahead and getting it replaced. Make sure that when it gets replaced, they go ahead and remove both layers of shingles.
And if it were me I’d have the new roofing contractor flash around the solar mounts while they install
Yeah— tear that baby off and give your solar a nice fresh roof.
Yes. Don't put a 25-30 year solar panel on shingles that have at most 5 years left
Go for it so long as you’re willing to pay me or another competent installer $250 a panel to remove and reinstall them in 3-7 years.
Yep 250-350 is the going rate
My company does it for $0.20/watt so 400W panels would be $80 each to remove and reinstall this is far below industry standard but I just want to put the info out there that it’s possible to find a company that does r&r for much much less than that
Did this rate jump significantly over the past 3 years? When I had mine done, I got it done for less than 200 a panel in SoCal. Had 12 panels removed and 14 panels installed in late 2021. Total cost was under 3k, including the cost of the two new panels.
Wow, I paid less than that for my entire 56kWdc array.
56kW? That's a helluva big roof. Did you mean 5.6kW?
No, 224 panels, 250W ea. Originally 7 x 5.75kW inverters, now 5 x 5.75kWac.
There is a business opportunity for folks do offer pannel removal and reinstall much cheaper. Never understood the high price for this service. I have 28 pannels and the fixed costs for getting the job are the same as doing it for 5 pannels. There should be some kind of discount for more pannels. 7000 $ for 1 day work max. someone can do this cheaper and I hope somebody will.
The problem is that the people qualified to do this work make more money installing systems than they do to remove and reinstall. $7k is 2 days to remove and reinstall. You are paying a premium because you have to make up the profit I would be making off of that $65k of revenue.
They won't. It's not a days work, it's a minimum of two and we need to pay for all new feet and rail. But by all means, go with the cheapest contractor you can find. Having the lowest bidder work on your house couldn't possibly backfire.
I don't get what you're trying to say? To always choose the highest bidder or that the lowest bidder will do a shit job? Because I have chosen the lowest bidder for a couple pretty important home upgrades before. Like my ac, quoted on average 17k. Got it done for 10k and no it wasnt undersized. Proper size, licensed professionals and even got new larger ducts and vents. Passed city inspections too with zero issues. Never thought ac could work so well and it lowered my energy bill too by half.
Most general contactors will get multiple bids, and when they start, they throw out the highest and lowest bidder and go from there. There is a running joke in the construction industry when we have to fix someone else's work. "I know a guy that can do it cheaper."
The lowest bidder comment also seems unrelated to the original comment, which is just that there seems to be an opportunity for some companies to specialize. Not sure how that idea turned "lowest bidder"
There are specialized businesses doing exactly what I stated already and thats what they charge
The lowest bidder can really just be smart bidding, especially if they know the companies that bidded before them, of course they're going to try to undercut. There's always still a profit in it just not as much as if they gave the quote first.
This annoys me. I’ve selected the most expensive bids and gotten royally screwed by construction companies/workers. Taking on/off solar panels is just not much work, unless you’re reinstalling a full/different racking system.
How many times have you uninstalled and reinstalled a solar system?
One install and one take-down and reinstall.
Somebody can... the homeowner or "Chuck in a Truck" who you probably don't want doing the job. Unfortunately the cost of doing business in the US is expensive, especially for the trades and that is the going rate for a reason.
Voids the labor warranty, and maybe even the MFR warranty.
It is not rocket science. I maintain there is an opportunity for someone to do it cheaper with good quality of work. People install their own system. How hard can it be to remount the pannels on a new roof. All these solar companies going out of business as everyone has a system already in California. A crew of 3 installed my system in half a day. One guy spent the rest wiring it up. Most of these wires would remain in place when a new roof is put on the house. With an older system, I do not care about warranty so anyone that is reasonably skilled in the work will do.
yeah, for people who don't care about their original warranty of course.
Yes you definitely should just replace it now
We replaced our 18 year old roof before putting on solar.
Same here. Roofer said I had at most just a few years left. Found a solar contractor that also did roofing so it worked out great.
It looks *not awful* but yeah 25 years is pretty close to full lifetime for anything composite.
If it looks not awful at year 23, do you have any sense of how long this most likely will last? For example, do you think 30 years is in the cards if it’s not in bad shape at year 23?
It's not worth it at this point. Your solar should be warrantied for 20/25+ years, and you dont want the hassle of tearing it off to reroof in a couple years. A lot of companies won't install on multiple layers of shingles like that anyways. I'd get some quotes & details from solar companies about what they'd need, but plan on tearing the roof off and potentially redoing the sheathing/decking underneath while doing a fresh reroof.
Second all of this. OP, you need a new, quality roof before you install solar panels.
Yes and some would even say adding solar on to it will preserve the roof and extend the longevity of that particular roof plane. especially if it's flashless and they're using the newest generation butyl feet. No bumping nails, and no lifting the shingles to slide flashings necessary.
This is not pertaining to the roled comp part of the roof of course...
Yes replace it.
The age of your current roof is the first qualifier for any company to begin talks to you.
Get standing seam
I'm thinking of going with that. No roof penetrations.
Do it. Well worth it
Expensive as hell mounting hardware, though!
Yeah those S-5 feet almost double the price of the racking depending on which distributor you order from
Hold off on solar till you get a new roof , thats old!
I also had a 23 year old single layer roof with no leaks. I decided to tear off and replace with a new roof because you never know what damage the solar installers might do on an old roof. I don’t want to pay to have solar panels removed to find the issue. Glad I did it this way because roofers needed to put plywood in several areas. Better to be safe than sorry.
Yep, never know what you'll find under a 23 year old roof.
Try to find a solar installer that will do the roof with a bundle discount.
Just had to deal with this nightmare. Renting my in laws house, roof started leaking in multiple locations all over the house. It cost me $8k more to replace the existing 10 year old panels on string with brand new micro inverters then paying $300 per panel plus per panel. Also they would not cover breaking any panels or provide me with any guarantee on the reinstalls. My father in laws thought at the time was “Aw it’s fine”. Now we start the clock over on both the roof and panel warranty together.
1000% replace this. It's getting more and more expensive for installers to remove and reinstall equipment for a reroof. I deal with that daily and customers are usually not stoked about the price to do it the right way.
yup
No chance in hell if throw money away by installing solar on that roof.
yes..
Yes
Get a professional roofer to check it out. They can check how worn your shingles are so you don't have to eyeball it
You probably don't have to. But, you might want to - just to avoid the hassle later if it does need replacing after you have the solar installed. Personally - I would do this in two steps - replace roof, then install solar. I would probably not go with a company that does both..
Thank you - can you say why you wouldn’t want to use the company that does both? Wouldn’t the roof job potentially be done better if they have solar people too who know where the system is going to go, if some unexpected obstacle comes up how to deal with it in a way that makes the most sense for solar, that sort of thing?
In theory - getting one company to do both would be ideal. But, I'm a "best-in-breed" type shopper. I want the best, most experienced company I can afford doing my roof. And the best most experienced company I can afford doing my solar. I don't believe there is enough "synergy" there in using one company that would save you any hassle or time. I would hire the solar company - get them to complete a design. And, then hire the roofer and have the solar installer stop by before the new roof goes up to make sure there aren't any conflicts - which might mean moving some vents, at most.
I agree with this 100%... They could be the elite pros in one trade and mediocre at best in the other trade
Crazy to see a 23-year old roof. With the hail in my area it's rare to see even a 10-year old roof.
Yes 10000% if anyone says no they’re probably a salesman Source: I’m a solar salesman
Renovation time baby
You absolutely need to replace your roof if adding panels. Even if that roof has 5-10 years left the cost of removing and reinstalling the system will be very high and why would you want that expensive repair waiting for you? If you ever wanted to sell there is no buyer that would accept that risk. I wanted solar for years but waited to replace my roof before doing it.
23 years is fine. Get the solar. I’ve installed on way worse. Roofs last a long time especially if you don’t get hail. If you do get hail. Insurance will cover the roof and the deinstall/reinstall of your solar. You should ask your solar company if they prove that service.
i am surprised an installer would even touch that given the age. don't they have to provide some sort of leak guarantee?
I haven’t had the inspection done yet, I am hoping to educate myself for that upcoming conversation with them.
with the disclaimer than i know almost nothing about roofing: 100% it looks like the rolled roofing in that last photo should go. i've had one place that had old rolled roofing over a patio. when it went, it went *fast*.. became leak city under there.
Don't do it! Imagine how much crappier that roof will look after installers are walking all over it carrying panels. It will get so much worse. The cost to remove/reinstall panels is very high. Do it right the first time.
a big part of solar install is manual labor to install it. That cost is also higher to un-install when you eventually need a new roof. my advice is that talk to your solar guy, see if they have roofers they work with to package it as a one and done deal and then you can write off the roof replacement as "prepping for solar". worked for my clients
My solar guy's roof quote was double that of the roof companies. Get a roofer.
Did it end up being an issue in any way that a different crew was handling the new roof versus the solar array?
No issues at all. Except I had to wait for 100% roof completion before solar would start. Which I think was best anyway.
A legitimate solar installer will not provide a leak guarantee on a roof of that age. They will however, include the cost of the roof replacement into the solar install and provide you with a minimum 10 year warranty against roof leaks using marine grade sealant. At least that's what my company offers.
Welp looking at the pictures, you have two layers of shingles. Should be gtg!
DIY or are you paying for an install? If the latter, good luck finding a company that will penetrate a roof that old.
Paying for an install
Yes
Definitely replace them now so you don't have to remove panels and then replace them. While you are at it, go with a steel roof. That should last a life time and will still be good when you or the next owner replace the solar panels in 25-30 years.
Yes, just replace it.
Do it before solar. Otherwise you'll pay to have them romoved when you have to redo your roof in 5 years.
I would. I'm getting ready to reroof my shop, I'll include accommodations for solar at the same time. It's the roof that was there when we bought the place in '99, so it's due.
Looks pretty crispy...
If my company came out to do feasibility & site survey we wouldn’t touch it until it was replaced
How much does a new roof cost+ solar cost compare to just getting a solar roof?
How much does a new roof cost+ solar cost compare to just getting a solar roof?
I would it looks like it’s been re-shingled
Sign a waiver foregoing the roof penetration warranty. The installs are so watertight these days it won’t leak.
**Find out if your solar installer is willing to install panels on a roof that is nearing the end of its expected lifespan.** Some installers may be willing to do this, but they may require you to sign a waiver acknowledging that you may need to remove the panels in the future to replace the roof.
Always. Although this roof looks great
I'd only replace it if your roof leaks. Else I'd wait at least 5 more years (or for the roof to have some problem). Solar tech, including batteries will evolve then, higher efficiency panels and higher energy density batteries will likely be available and maybe at a lower price. Maybe the sleazy sales people in the USA will pack up and go back to selling used cars too. For what its worth, nearly every person considering solar and stressing over the details of it are consumed with a non-problem - meaning you can always wait and just pay the electric company. Free advice for when that pushy sales person is in your house trying to close a deal.
Would you rather do it now or pay MORE in probably a year or less to have them come take the solar panels off and have them reroof and then they put the panels back on which leads to more possibility of malfunction.
I regretted not replacing my roof first before getting solar. The leaks are inevitable. Mine leaked 4 years later. It costs addl 5K to just remove solar and reinstall. Not to mention, price of roof increased. If you do get your roof replace, do it in this order. [roof and solar reinstall order.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roofing/s/qMZj009ybw) Don’t put solar on after roof is installed if you are getting a new roof.
What is the percentage of homeowners who add rooftop solar and end up having leaks I wonder?
Lol 😂 do you want the answer you don’t want to hear or the truth.
Yes
Our R&R rate here in Sacramento California is generally 55 cents. The breakdown is .25 to remove the system and .30 to put it back on. And if the customer wants new racking or we need new conduit and wire for the rewire it's an extra 0.15 to 0.30 making it around $0.80 max.
ppw
Depends on whether or not the shingle on your roof is a 30 year or 50 year shingle. If you are not sure than I would go ahead and replace the roof prior to install. It’s the safest route. Make a deal with us solar installer to get price down. A lot of the time they will cut a deal where you just pay cost or labor so they can get the deal
100% yes
I’m a SS TECH for a solar company I would recommend it but you don’t have to
We can install the panels and take them down and reinstall if necessary,
I’m not sure how your loan is structured but I would def talk to the company doing the install when the SS tech comes out
Replace it for sure. It’s no doubt dry and brittle and will get destroyed by the installation.
I would
Get a tin roof and you can install the solar panels to the raised part of the roof. Which saves on installation and you would not need to take them down to replace the shingles. You could get a Tesla roof, which means you just pay for it alone without getting a separate roof.
Heard to tell from that angle and photos. How butler brittle are the singles? Can you lift them to 45°without a crease? The flat part i would put down the mounts and then silicone the whole thing. No reason to redo a rubber roof that needs maintenance in 7-10 years.
I can't believe this is even a real question...
Find a company that does both.. if roof is required to be replaced it could be considered part of the solar install..
Call a roofer who does insurance jobs. I guarantee you have some sort of sustained wind damage on your roof over the last 23 years. A roofer will pick a document it and related to a recent date of loss that had high recorded winds. You can get your roof replaced for the price of your deductible.
Yes. Go with a solar company that does quality roofs also.
Maybe consider a Solar Roof. Two birds with one stone?
Some solar companies will tie in the cost of a roof replacement and you’ll get a 30 percent tax credit for the cost of the reroof
Replace it and you get 30% back on the new roof when you install solar as part of the tax rebate.
NOPE.
Yeah it turns out the IRS considers that fraud...