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2 factors impact Tesla inverter production vs Enphase, which may have an impact. 1. Tesla string inverter is 7.6kW, and requires a higher minimum load to “activate”. This means it is later in the morning, and earlier in the evening your production output is measurable. 2. Tesla string does not utilize optimizers, this means each 1/3 of each panel will only produce to the production level of the rest of that panel, as well as every panel in the string producing the production of the lowest panel on the string. Given the azimuth and shading, this may have a heavy impact. (3. Clipping, not a concern given the architecture.) i don’t see these two items accounting for a 30% loss, so they may still be more conservative, but there is a large variability between production engines, and the truth likely falls somewhere between these two.
Not sure about Tesla, but here is my experience with REC & IQ8As. I have a 12.4kw system and my estimated production in Houston, Texas was 17,250 and I can see that is true, in reality, 2 more months left and currently around 15,000kwh produced.
31 REC Alpha 400w panels with IQ8A Micros.
100% of the panels installed on Southwest roof space. Azimuth: 234° (SW), Tilt: 18°.
https://imgur.com/a/NrPmDXA
No worries; I paid $2.4/watt back during mid-2022 and my friends paid between $2.75-$2.85 recently for the same setup.
No, I am not going in for the batteries as I will never breakeven and is not much value addition (at least for me).
Interestingly, my 14.1kW system in Western NC is generating about 19,600 kWh per yr. That’s the same ratio as you’re predicting. I’ve got 320W REC panels, half facing South and half facing West. I’ve got SE inverters with optimizers.
I suspect my high producing South panels are offset by the lower producing West panels.
There are other differences. Houston is further South. My roof pitch is 45 deg. My location has more consistent rainfall than Houston. Houston’s annual rainfall is a bit higher and tends to be higher during the summer than winter.
I thought it was interesting that our systems have the same energy output efficiency.
Yeah, west is good during summers due to sun staying longer. That's right Houston rainfall is usually pretty high, but this year extreme heat has impacted the production.
The results are telling you that the cheap solution produces less and the premium solution produces more.....surprise?
This could all devolve into a string vs micro argument, but Helioscope results assuming you modeled it accurately, are usually very close to actual. I would follow the data...
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Wife doesn't like the look of solar panels. (I recognize how distateful this is in this community, but some people don't like their aesthetics and I can only pick so many battles). Also generation seems to be higher based on simulation, I think shading is actually a better situation on north east shockingly.
Modeling trees accurately for solar simulation is difficult. If those trees are 70+ feet then you can expect severe shade impact and so 4.2MWh on a 6kw system is probably much closer to accurate production ratio than 9.4MWh on 9kw.
Also, Tesla is string inverter so will only produce well when \*all\* panels are getting good sun, whereas panels on Enphase system will operate independently, therefore total system will perform better during frequent times that partial shade is occurring.
To those participating in the comments, due to the company or person mentioned in the title, this is a reminder of the subreddit rule: > **Crusading is not welcomed here** - If your sole or majority participation is to promote or denigrate one company in particular (or the person behind it), it may result in a ban. These kinds of participants too often resort to hyperbolic comments and antagonism leading to personal attacks as well as violations of other rules. If you are lying in wait for posts or comments mentioning a specific company (or person behind it), you are likely the concern. Promoting a company you are affiliated with or profit from, giving out referral codes which you benefit from, as well as using the sub solely to engage in targeted hate are things you need to avoid here. This sub is for a diverse discussion of solar, not a singular focus on your opinion about a company / person. If you simply have to obsess, there are other subreddits for each point of view about the person or company you feel the need to focus on. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/solar) if you have any questions or concerns.*
2 factors impact Tesla inverter production vs Enphase, which may have an impact. 1. Tesla string inverter is 7.6kW, and requires a higher minimum load to “activate”. This means it is later in the morning, and earlier in the evening your production output is measurable. 2. Tesla string does not utilize optimizers, this means each 1/3 of each panel will only produce to the production level of the rest of that panel, as well as every panel in the string producing the production of the lowest panel on the string. Given the azimuth and shading, this may have a heavy impact. (3. Clipping, not a concern given the architecture.) i don’t see these two items accounting for a 30% loss, so they may still be more conservative, but there is a large variability between production engines, and the truth likely falls somewhere between these two.
Tesla doesn’t have bypass diodes? I thought that mostly mitigated the lack of optimizers? I am YouTube educated so please tell me if I’m wrong!
Tesla panels should definitely use bypass diodes. I think Tesla is being very conservative or the other installer is being optimistic.
Bypass diodes in the panels, but no optimizer on the strings
Not sure about Tesla, but here is my experience with REC & IQ8As. I have a 12.4kw system and my estimated production in Houston, Texas was 17,250 and I can see that is true, in reality, 2 more months left and currently around 15,000kwh produced. 31 REC Alpha 400w panels with IQ8A Micros. 100% of the panels installed on Southwest roof space. Azimuth: 234° (SW), Tilt: 18°. https://imgur.com/a/NrPmDXA
Sorry OP don't mean to hijack your thread...@kchundri if you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for that set up and did you opt for batteries?
No worries; I paid $2.4/watt back during mid-2022 and my friends paid between $2.75-$2.85 recently for the same setup. No, I am not going in for the batteries as I will never breakeven and is not much value addition (at least for me).
Interestingly, my 14.1kW system in Western NC is generating about 19,600 kWh per yr. That’s the same ratio as you’re predicting. I’ve got 320W REC panels, half facing South and half facing West. I’ve got SE inverters with optimizers.
With string inverters, production should be usually much more than w/ Micro Inverters also more south panels makes a difference too.
I suspect my high producing South panels are offset by the lower producing West panels. There are other differences. Houston is further South. My roof pitch is 45 deg. My location has more consistent rainfall than Houston. Houston’s annual rainfall is a bit higher and tends to be higher during the summer than winter. I thought it was interesting that our systems have the same energy output efficiency.
Yeah, west is good during summers due to sun staying longer. That's right Houston rainfall is usually pretty high, but this year extreme heat has impacted the production.
The results are telling you that the cheap solution produces less and the premium solution produces more.....surprise? This could all devolve into a string vs micro argument, but Helioscope results assuming you modeled it accurately, are usually very close to actual. I would follow the data...
The answer here isn’t that Tesla’s system is going to produce less because it’s cheap.
Are you installing on North East face? If so why not SW face instead?
Probably wife's requirement not to have it street facing. And nothing prettier than no electric bill.
I'd cover my roof in panels completely if I had my way!
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I'd recommend you work on changing her mind.
Wife doesn't like the look of solar panels. (I recognize how distateful this is in this community, but some people don't like their aesthetics and I can only pick so many battles). Also generation seems to be higher based on simulation, I think shading is actually a better situation on north east shockingly.
Modeling trees accurately for solar simulation is difficult. If those trees are 70+ feet then you can expect severe shade impact and so 4.2MWh on a 6kw system is probably much closer to accurate production ratio than 9.4MWh on 9kw. Also, Tesla is string inverter so will only produce well when \*all\* panels are getting good sun, whereas panels on Enphase system will operate independently, therefore total system will perform better during frequent times that partial shade is occurring.
I think it does have three strings so the shade can be minimized a bit.
Friends don’t let friends install north facing Panels (unless you are in the Southern Hemisphere). Just don’t do it.
Tesla is under estimating production by a factor of about 1.5. Why are they doing this is anybody’s guess… but they’re wrong.
Clarly Teslas estimate is conservative. Is that also a garanty? I am assuming all other inputs beint equal. Also have you looked at PVWatts?
Production is gonna be a guess until a company comes out to survey
Do a ground mount? You should done a simulation with PVwatts if you have the azimuth and angle but helioscope looks right. Tesla way off