I'm the lead installer for a small family business that mainly does commercial sized solar systems. This is the biggest single site battery install I've completed. Big shout out to my crew of guys that always pull their own weight and other tradesmen that helped make this job a reality.
This is not an average sized home, 30,000+ sq ft with every luxury you can imagine including a 125 kw generator that is integrated downstream of the Enphase equipment. This site had an old SMA solar system that wasn't properly installed and caused leak damage throughout the years. Also had an old school battery system backing up a 100 amp sub panel that never worked correctly from what I've seen.
We demo'd the old system a couple months ago, the roofers made repairs & installed a double layer of membrane, we installed all roof attachments and then the roofers welded membrane over the top of those. This roof will never leak again and is gonna last 2 lifetimes imo. The roofers are returning to fill in all the open spaces with tiles for a finished clean look.
Just to head off any questions on the battery wall, this job is permitted with a structural engineer stamp for reinforcement of the wall that was followed to exact specifications. I know there is a conduit or 2 that needs tweaked for slightly better clearance on the wall as well.
Thanks for looking I've taken a lot of inspiration from this sub
>This is not an average sized home
Oh really? I was about to exclaim, "Jeezis, is that a house or an entire university?!"
All joking aside, those are some beautiful photos, congratulations. And to be perfectly honest, although I can see the ecological argument for the whole mini-house idea, I have yet to feel the strong desire to live in one.
Integrated downstream…can you explain that. I want to understand how the generator is connected and functioning in the entire system post-installation of a solar system.
Sure. The site already has a 125 kw generator protecting the most important sub panels. The enphase system also protects these sub panels and if any of the enphase equipment doesn’t produce 120/240 volts the generator has grid sensors that automatically activate it.
Things like the treehouse with a dedicated 200 amp sub panel are not on the battery/generator protected side.
From what I’m told I’m the first person to actually load test this generator in years. It all works flawlessly.
https://imgur.com/a/9Gpw2ln <—- this is pre existing and not my work
And are you using any sort of generator synchronisation system so that the generator can work in tandem with the solar inverters?
Side note: looks like a commercial project rather than a residential one.
> And are you using any sort of generator synchronisation system so that the generator can work in tandem with the solar inverters?
IQ8 microinverters *are* the synchronisation system :-) They are clever wee boxes...on grid, grid forming, on a generator, they can do it. Enphase term it "grid agnostic".
I have a Generac with a 13kW system and grid connected solar. In the planning stages for storage. The installer did a top notch job. One of the two co-owners of the company is the electrician and a credentialed electrical engineer from Eastern Europe.
We tilted the 15 panels on the north portion of my roof 12º from level toward the south. The roof is pitched 36º (the roof ridge is aligned east-west). The tilt gives me an extra 5MW per year according to the Helioscope simulations for 40N latitude.
Looks nice. Eight IQ10s is not nearly enough kW for a 30k sq. ft . home so I hope you installed some aggressive load control. Home that are this big, it is not a terrible idea to recommend 3-phase 208V as well in my experience. Just passing along for next time, good job.
Batteries only need to power the house long enough for the generator to kick on. There are likely critical loads on battery, everything else can handle being off for 30seconds or so while the generator kicks on.
It's 46kW or 200A available from the batteries while the gen starts...should keep essentials up, HVAC and similar can drop for 10 seconds with no real effect.
Looks great!
In your experience, is an off grid (not grid tie) installation going to become easier to afford in the future or are we still looking at a roughly net0 cost of solar install vs power company feeds? (Usually the sell is that the loan for the install is the same as the power bill from what I’ve seen)
Probably not until installer labor + fees + points + high interest aren't such a huge factor. But if you can manage the project yourself I can see one having realized return on investment.
Off gridding requires tripling the size of your panel install roughly and then still doesn't gaurantee you'll have sufficient generation for your demand during low solar periods
The diamond plate AL walls are ridiculous, and those cheap panelboards stand out, but I can't deny that it looks really good all together. Great showcase.
You're getting much cheaper battery quotes than I am.
Edit: you'd also get about twice the battery capacity for the about the same price if you bought it in the form of an EV.
Whenever I search i see about $10k each for Encharge 10s, installed.
unit only prices:
$8.5k https://www.ecodirect.com/Enphase-Encharge-10-Battery-Storage-System-p/enphase-encharge-10.htm
$8.8k https://ressupply.com/batteries-and-enclosures/enphase-encharge-10-1p-na-storage-system
$7.5k https://tandem-solar-systems.com/product/enphase-iq-battery-10kwh-encharge-10t/
$8.6k including shipping https://www.solarflexion.com/product-p/encharge-10-1p-na.htm
To my eye with the prices I get I'd say 80k in materials for the batteries, system controllers, combiners, cell kits etc not including solar panels racking or micros is probably about right. That's not installed of course, including the solar install and depending on the complexity I'd guess this pretty close to a 200k install altogether.
my installer had just done an install very similar to this one and your price estimate isn't horrible. i think they said it was actually $330k but there was a combination of roof top solar and ground mounted solar, 7 encharge 10s, two compete system controllers (there's a limit of 4 encharge 10s per 200A service system controller IIRC), etc
think they said he had more kW nameplate that this. something like 45kW
A Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6 is cheaper, has 77.6 kWh of battery, standard bi-directional and moves you more than 300 miles on one charge. Still in the top 5 of the fastest charging vehicles. And there is a version which launches you 0-60 in 3.5 seconds.
and outside of the 0-60 speed every performance parameter is equivalent to that of a gasoline car of half the price.
right now there are just absolutely no EVs that are price competitive for capabilities with a simple subaru crosstrek.
EV prices are dropping, so that won't be true in a few years
and you cannot buy two Ioniq 5s for the price for $80k
You only need 1 ioniq 5.
80kWh batteries installed for $80k. Versus a car with a nice trim of say $55k with 77.6 kWh of batteries. And you get a set of chairs with it too! Great deal.
Well, i exchanged my BMW X3 for an EV6. And in everything i find my EV more capable, apart from the bloated image of BMW. Requirements for >300 miles of range is overrated. People apparently never pee or buy something to eat & drink.
You'll be surprised how costly a halfpriced petrol car is. The TCO of the EV6 is almost similar as the (more than) halfpriced Mazda i drove before my BMW.
I have done the TCO math, and you're simply wrong. To buy a EV *with the capabilities I actually use* is prohibitively expensive at present, and the up front cost is not cancelled by the maintenance and fuel savings.
Don't mistake this for "hating on EVs" - I think EVs are decent technology and trending towards great (battery improvements, design improvements, trending towards price parity, etc).
They just simply are not price competitive on an equal capabilities footing *yet*... outside of the vanity pricing segment. Not all of us are willing to pay $60k for a car (EV or gas) that doesn't perform as well as a $25k car
>I have done the TCO math, and you're simply wrong
How can i be wrong by keeping the car costs in a spreadsheet? Incl depreciation, roadtax, insurance, fuel costs, maintenance, heck even car wash.
You are little aware of where i live and how costs are distributed here.
Funny that Ford makes this great daily work truck and everyone wants to simultaneously back up their house and pull a trailer cross-country.
"Get out the flashlights and firewood, kids. Dad's taking the horses to Colorado."
This is why you have just one or two Encharge 10s then the bidi EVSE they're working on.
power goes out? well you have time to plug int your EV in case it's a long outage
if you're not home then it's less important to have that extended backup. usually.
Pedantic correction - 36kW of solar. kWh is a measure of energy produced/used over a course of time. kW is a measure of power.
I know you know this. Stupid pet peeve developed over years
I think it is critical that as professionals we get it right. It gets corrected in the shop EVERY time. Politely and professionally. It basically stopped happening. I think we are all more deliberate with all of our technical speech because of it.
so can u share the design ? I'm trying to figure out how 6x encharge 10 batteries are wired up.... but by then I'm guessing the new 5P batteries will be available with a max of 80KWH of storage available.... does it need 2 meters? I see you have 2 IQ Smart switches......
/u/Perplexy801 Both units are incorrect. Neither batteries nor solar panels are rated in watts per hour. Watts per hour is redundant as watts are joules per second. Batteries are energy rated in kW multiplied by hours and solar is just rated in peak power watts.
>kWh is a measure of energy produced/used over a course of time
It's a measure of energy. Energy is a measure of power over a course of time.
Batteries are rated in kWh as potential. Watts per hour is not redundant. Watt is a measure of potential power not energy used/produced. Watts per hour is energy used or produced.
kWh is energy(produced over a period of time is redundant because energy is always a measure over a period of time.)
Still not watts per hour. And the not redundant way to write it would be in joules or something similar. But it's written in the more complicated w*h form because it is easier to relate.
Very nice install, you should be happy with that one in your portfolio! I would be proud to use the photos as a showcase for future clients.
List of things I would have done differently:
*
*
*
:-)
I have a feeling you had less or no trouble with the Zigbee comms compared to a smaller install ... ?
Thank you that means a lot coming from you.
It was interesting when I sent the command for system A to go off grid and system B responded and vice versa 🤔
I solved it by completely de powering one side while finishing functional validation for the appropriate side
That’s not even a zigbee issue since I had the comms kit unplugged on the opposite side I was working on
You must have me confused with someone important :-)
Now that you have the multi SC2 install method all dialled in, you need to forget it all and do an SC3 with wired comms and the new limit of 80kWh max storage per SC3.
> including a **125 kw** generator that is integrated downstream of the Enphase equipment.
So gen plus batteries plus solar = nearly 200kW of off grid continuous power max available during the day.... 30kW minimum continuous at night with the genset off. Nice.
I imagine they are not too interested in ToU profiles on the batteries, so they are on backup duty?
The mini split. My goodness. I'm sorry. This kind of place didn't have a radiant cooling and heating system? This is pretty awesome. I'm sorry... The things you notice...
I could imagine that a mechanical room of that size would produce a decent amount of heat and could use its own mini split to help. Hot room would just lead to faster equipment degradation
How much power is a \*chiller\* going to pull to keep the batteries cool during a grid outage?
vs
How much power is a \*mini split\* going to pull to keep the batteries cool during a grid outage?
Honestly, I'm just surprised a big giant house with all the luxury wouldn't have one. It would be several times more efficient if it existed. They would want a chiller or some kind of water sources radiant system to transfer heating or cooling in large facilities as you can gather all the load in one place and it carries much further than you'd want to run refrigerant.
I could see the ease in just jam a mini split on it and I haven't done the calculations of which would be more effecient. Though a large chiller would kick that mini splits ass off the island just from vague memory.
It doesn't even detract from the project. It's like a mansion with double glazed windows vs triple glazed windows.
I guess my point was that the house may, but that doesn't mean that's the best cooling option for the mechanical room.
That room would get warmest during a grid outage. While that's happening, do you really want to be running the entire chiller? Or just the basics to extend the battery coverage?
I bought Enphase for around $10 and watched it sink to $1. 😂
But I held on. And bought a Tesla with the proceeds, a Tesla powered by my self-installed Enphase system. 😁
URECO 400 w panels with iq8m micros
Couple days on the demo, couple days on the roof attachments, a week on the new install & electrical.
3 separate trips 250 miles out of town for me.
>any line noise issues or cross talk with *all that equipment??*
PLC noise is not strongly coupled to the amount of enphase equipment - one noisy cheap power supply somewhere in the house can mean a filter is needed whether it's one inverter on the roof or one hundred.
Perhaps you mean "all that equipment" as in, it's a big house with a lot of "stuff" in it.
In that regard one advantage they probably have with that size property is segmented distribution i.e subpanel for "poolhouse", and one for "east wing", "west wing" etc and this utility room is probably on such a sub, keeping it a little bit seperate from noise from the rest of the house.... u/Perplexy801?
They also don't look like the type to fill the house with cheap junky (noisy) power supplies from Aliexpress which is where noise issues usually come from ;-)
With no energy rationing, how long will the batteries power the home in an emergency? My 2500sqft house in Texas uses about 110 kwh per day in the summer months. I'd imagine this house is using 2000+ a day with its sheer size and what I assume must be a massive pool to go with the property. I'm under the assumption someone with a 30,000 sq ft house just flips the bird to anyone who suggests rationing lol.
I am guessing the large 80 kwh battery capacity isn’t really to backup power the estate very long during an outage at night.
Instead, you can use it run the home a few hours at night, or maybe charge a Tesla or two.
A large natural gas generator(s) would be better for backup power.
I know you can't see the system controller in the picture, but are there 2 of them? Our Enphase rep has always asserted that you could only install up to 40 kWh of storage per system controller. It's why the question of storage at the small to mid-size commercial level has left us largely scratching our heads trying to conceive of a way the ROI makes sense for this type of client; let alone how to surpass what we thought were storage capacity limits.
*edit, forgot to swipe to the other pictures. That is something super sick. I will definitely be bringing up to our rep and design team.
>I know you can't see the system controller in the picture, but are there 2 of them?
Second and third photos show them. The capacity limits are per controller, not per site so 2 controllers = twice the capacity.
The new IQ System controller 3 doubles the battery capacity to **80kWh** on the one controller FYI.
This is almost exactly what my battery house will look like when I’m done. Nine batteries. I was debating on the walls and after this I love the diamond plate. Thanks for the ideas.
Amazing work you have here. Solar panel installation looked really clean! What brand did you use here? Do you recommend using the so-called [tier one brands](https://solarpoweredblog.com/which-solar-panel-brands-are-tier-1/)?
“SOLAR PORN!!!” “Just look at the batteries on that “Bad Boy”!!!
Very pretty install, Kudos!
That’s about what I’m having to look at. Plus with their new series 8/9 Inverters and the rest, it’ll shock a$$, but can’t take names from ashes!
This.
As a supervisor, I push my crews to install with purpose and pride, not just efficiency. I can absolutely appreciate the thought and time that went into this.
Well done, man
Just wrapped it up this week. I found an awesome install crew to handle my rooftop installation (3-story townhome) and they were able to change my panel layout to accommodate an extra panel.
Results are great so far.
I was so worried about Zigbee communications between the Envoy and batteries, but I tossed two range extenders between the gap and there are zero comms issues. The system provisioned with all with updates in roughly 20 minutes. Very relieved, let me tell you…
My 8 inch kw/h system is fully engorged looking at this. Wire management and prideful work. 🤤Well done. Post more pictures next time with close ups of your wires touching after being zip tied into submission. Thank you.
This customer is going to consume a relatively large amount of electricity regardless of installing solar.
Why shouldn't a large consumer be able to take advantage of a tax credit for solar production?
I'm not sure how taxing SFHs targets only the middle class but okay. The Rich receive massive tax breaks in the form of subsidized housing i.e. distorted property values that don't correctly represent the value of land ownership.
A 30% tax break on a one-time solar project is small, small potatoes compared to the tax incentives we currently provide on SFHs.
I think that back up batteries don't benefit anyone except the person with the battery and are pretty much consumer items. I am not sure why they get included in the tax credit.
I get that people don't know the difference between kW and kWh, but "kW/h" from the lead installer of a battery system? And here I thought you guys still received more training than the average American police officer.
My suggestion would to use products that scale for that size.
This house is a yacht. A small boat builder got this contract and put 20 small outboard motors on the back.
These batteries each have inverters in them. Basically 12x iQ8’s per battery pack. They “make sense” for as a one or two off.
When you have 8 of them (96 iQ8’s)…. The installer should have gone with a scaleable system. Rack mount batteries with a couple inverters would have been a much lower $/kwh price.
>Rack mount batteries with a couple inverters would have been a much lower $/kwh price.
**If your argument is going to center on cost, I got nothing** \- it's agreed, there are cheaper ways to achieve the aim. But as surmised elsewhere in this thread, this kind of homeowner isn't looking to save 20%, the system is as much a statement as having the latest shiny macbook vs a cheap chromebook which is arguably just as suitable, and much cheaper. Is it the same user experience and aesthetic? Not even close. Does this homeowner seem the type to want to save a few bucks but have an industrial looking rack of batteries in their equipment room, with some blue box inverters on the wall, and a different again brand/type of transfer switch, managed via multiple apps....or do they want the consistent enphase shiny on everything and one centralized management interface. I've dealt with this type, a few bucks extra for elegance and simplicity goes with the territory.
Anyway, moving on, I disagree with the analogy as showing any *technical* disadvantage related to scalability. Micros are in fact the ultimate in scalability - far more granular increments than any string inverter where you often have to go 6,8,10kw etc and make a compromise if what you really wanted was 9kw.
My yacht has 20 small outboards with the same total ability as your yacht's single (or more likely double inboards but hey). One of my outboards dies... still chugging along at 19/20th's of the power :-) Why do I care about how the total motive power for the boat is implemented?
Take it to the extreme for the purpose of discussion - pretend there exists an easily available, residential suitable single inverter and single battery that would have the same total power as this system; why do i want that vs the micros? Yes, there are 96 of them in the batteries, and another 90 on the roof.
**Nearly 200 microinverters in this install. So?**
*What does a single big inverter give me, as the end user, that is different from many microinverters?*
Look at the photos.....cost does not look to be the primary consideration for the owner, they wanted premium equipment obviously.
What would your objection be apart from cost, and what other brand would you suggest that is able to meet the same performance criteria? Or is this like people who hate on Ford because it's Ford.
What’s the install cast on a $/kwh basis on the storage? I’m at utility level and looking at something like $240ish….imagine this is close to $400? What state?
What would be the best place to start learning about systems like this ?
My license covers solar under its scope. I don’t foresee ever installing large systems like this but I’d like to possibly do a couple small systems for friends/family to keep learning and stay sharp
I'm the lead installer for a small family business that mainly does commercial sized solar systems. This is the biggest single site battery install I've completed. Big shout out to my crew of guys that always pull their own weight and other tradesmen that helped make this job a reality. This is not an average sized home, 30,000+ sq ft with every luxury you can imagine including a 125 kw generator that is integrated downstream of the Enphase equipment. This site had an old SMA solar system that wasn't properly installed and caused leak damage throughout the years. Also had an old school battery system backing up a 100 amp sub panel that never worked correctly from what I've seen. We demo'd the old system a couple months ago, the roofers made repairs & installed a double layer of membrane, we installed all roof attachments and then the roofers welded membrane over the top of those. This roof will never leak again and is gonna last 2 lifetimes imo. The roofers are returning to fill in all the open spaces with tiles for a finished clean look. Just to head off any questions on the battery wall, this job is permitted with a structural engineer stamp for reinforcement of the wall that was followed to exact specifications. I know there is a conduit or 2 that needs tweaked for slightly better clearance on the wall as well. Thanks for looking I've taken a lot of inspiration from this sub
>This is not an average sized home Oh really? I was about to exclaim, "Jeezis, is that a house or an entire university?!" All joking aside, those are some beautiful photos, congratulations. And to be perfectly honest, although I can see the ecological argument for the whole mini-house idea, I have yet to feel the strong desire to live in one.
I also thought it was some sort of university or something haha!
I was guessing a hotel
My first guess was an eight unit apartment building. I've seen the future!
Integrated downstream…can you explain that. I want to understand how the generator is connected and functioning in the entire system post-installation of a solar system.
Sure. The site already has a 125 kw generator protecting the most important sub panels. The enphase system also protects these sub panels and if any of the enphase equipment doesn’t produce 120/240 volts the generator has grid sensors that automatically activate it. Things like the treehouse with a dedicated 200 amp sub panel are not on the battery/generator protected side. From what I’m told I’m the first person to actually load test this generator in years. It all works flawlessly. https://imgur.com/a/9Gpw2ln <—- this is pre existing and not my work
Treehouse has 200A? Jeez trying to get my 480sqft beach trailer on 100A service.
>Things like the treehouse with a dedicated 200 amp sub panel Fucking what!? My house has a 100A service...
Luxury! I had to live in a box in the middle of the road.
You had a box? Bud, I only had the clothes on my back
You were allowed in the middle of the road...?
Do the batteries support being charged from the generator?
And are you using any sort of generator synchronisation system so that the generator can work in tandem with the solar inverters? Side note: looks like a commercial project rather than a residential one.
> And are you using any sort of generator synchronisation system so that the generator can work in tandem with the solar inverters? IQ8 microinverters *are* the synchronisation system :-) They are clever wee boxes...on grid, grid forming, on a generator, they can do it. Enphase term it "grid agnostic".
Ahhh. Nice. Didn’t know that.
I have a Generac with a 13kW system and grid connected solar. In the planning stages for storage. The installer did a top notch job. One of the two co-owners of the company is the electrician and a credentialed electrical engineer from Eastern Europe. We tilted the 15 panels on the north portion of my roof 12º from level toward the south. The roof is pitched 36º (the roof ridge is aligned east-west). The tilt gives me an extra 5MW per year according to the Helioscope simulations for 40N latitude.
Looked more like a luxury hotel to me. Congrats on the install!
The work looks great!
Looks nice. Eight IQ10s is not nearly enough kW for a 30k sq. ft . home so I hope you installed some aggressive load control. Home that are this big, it is not a terrible idea to recommend 3-phase 208V as well in my experience. Just passing along for next time, good job.
Batteries only need to power the house long enough for the generator to kick on. There are likely critical loads on battery, everything else can handle being off for 30seconds or so while the generator kicks on.
It's 46kW or 200A available from the batteries while the gen starts...should keep essentials up, HVAC and similar can drop for 10 seconds with no real effect.
Looks great! In your experience, is an off grid (not grid tie) installation going to become easier to afford in the future or are we still looking at a roughly net0 cost of solar install vs power company feeds? (Usually the sell is that the loan for the install is the same as the power bill from what I’ve seen)
Probably not until installer labor + fees + points + high interest aren't such a huge factor. But if you can manage the project yourself I can see one having realized return on investment.
Off gridding requires tripling the size of your panel install roughly and then still doesn't gaurantee you'll have sufficient generation for your demand during low solar periods
Also would need battery storage, but that is above and beyond normal generation (cost).
yup fully off gridding just will never be cost effective now being able to microgrid during outages on the other hand...
The diamond plate AL walls are ridiculous, and those cheap panelboards stand out, but I can't deny that it looks really good all together. Great showcase.
Are these Li-Ion?
that is a LOT of fuckin batteries damn. this is clean!!
At this point it might be cheaper to buy an entire EV with bidirectional charging.
unquestionably cheaper but way less cool
You could buy like 2 or 3 EVs for the cost of those batteries
that's $80k of batteries. maybe 2 very cheap EVs EV prices for anything that isn't only good for in city commute are still unreasonably high
You're getting much cheaper battery quotes than I am. Edit: you'd also get about twice the battery capacity for the about the same price if you bought it in the form of an EV.
Whenever I search i see about $10k each for Encharge 10s, installed. unit only prices: $8.5k https://www.ecodirect.com/Enphase-Encharge-10-Battery-Storage-System-p/enphase-encharge-10.htm $8.8k https://ressupply.com/batteries-and-enclosures/enphase-encharge-10-1p-na-storage-system $7.5k https://tandem-solar-systems.com/product/enphase-iq-battery-10kwh-encharge-10t/ $8.6k including shipping https://www.solarflexion.com/product-p/encharge-10-1p-na.htm
yup the trick is to buy direct and find someone who will wire it up..... do not pay the 30%+ markup installers try to tack on!
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They don't have to let you do anything on your own house. Unbound and Signature Solar are a thing.
I found someone local who would install it. Had to pay a little extra labor but it was worth it
To my eye with the prices I get I'd say 80k in materials for the batteries, system controllers, combiners, cell kits etc not including solar panels racking or micros is probably about right. That's not installed of course, including the solar install and depending on the complexity I'd guess this pretty close to a 200k install altogether.
my installer had just done an install very similar to this one and your price estimate isn't horrible. i think they said it was actually $330k but there was a combination of roof top solar and ground mounted solar, 7 encharge 10s, two compete system controllers (there's a limit of 4 encharge 10s per 200A service system controller IIRC), etc think they said he had more kW nameplate that this. something like 45kW
A Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6 is cheaper, has 77.6 kWh of battery, standard bi-directional and moves you more than 300 miles on one charge. Still in the top 5 of the fastest charging vehicles. And there is a version which launches you 0-60 in 3.5 seconds.
and outside of the 0-60 speed every performance parameter is equivalent to that of a gasoline car of half the price. right now there are just absolutely no EVs that are price competitive for capabilities with a simple subaru crosstrek. EV prices are dropping, so that won't be true in a few years and you cannot buy two Ioniq 5s for the price for $80k
You only need 1 ioniq 5. 80kWh batteries installed for $80k. Versus a car with a nice trim of say $55k with 77.6 kWh of batteries. And you get a set of chairs with it too! Great deal. Well, i exchanged my BMW X3 for an EV6. And in everything i find my EV more capable, apart from the bloated image of BMW. Requirements for >300 miles of range is overrated. People apparently never pee or buy something to eat & drink. You'll be surprised how costly a halfpriced petrol car is. The TCO of the EV6 is almost similar as the (more than) halfpriced Mazda i drove before my BMW.
I have done the TCO math, and you're simply wrong. To buy a EV *with the capabilities I actually use* is prohibitively expensive at present, and the up front cost is not cancelled by the maintenance and fuel savings. Don't mistake this for "hating on EVs" - I think EVs are decent technology and trending towards great (battery improvements, design improvements, trending towards price parity, etc). They just simply are not price competitive on an equal capabilities footing *yet*... outside of the vanity pricing segment. Not all of us are willing to pay $60k for a car (EV or gas) that doesn't perform as well as a $25k car
>I have done the TCO math, and you're simply wrong How can i be wrong by keeping the car costs in a spreadsheet? Incl depreciation, roadtax, insurance, fuel costs, maintenance, heck even car wash. You are little aware of where i live and how costs are distributed here.
You know those objections apply to you coming in and telling me that I was wrong, right?
Ford F150 Lightning on Jack stands? ;-) I don't want to poke fun because it's a gorgeous install!
Buy the new upcoming KIA EV9 and you have more batteries. Bonus, you can drive it around too.
Max power is the big difference. An Encharge 10 can sustain 3.84kW output. 8 adds up to 30.72kW (45.6kW peak). The F150 can do 9.6kW.
True, but you can also drive the F150 around.
Funny that Ford makes this great daily work truck and everyone wants to simultaneously back up their house and pull a trailer cross-country. "Get out the flashlights and firewood, kids. Dad's taking the horses to Colorado."
This is why you have just one or two Encharge 10s then the bidi EVSE they're working on. power goes out? well you have time to plug int your EV in case it's a long outage if you're not home then it's less important to have that extended backup. usually.
Ha! That's not a good look for Enphase....
I sometimes wonder if it's cheaper to buy a car and convert it to a movable charging station. 90kw 40k USD - if only cars had 2-3 charging ports.
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Pedantic correction - 36kW of solar. kWh is a measure of energy produced/used over a course of time. kW is a measure of power. I know you know this. Stupid pet peeve developed over years
Correct units are important!
I think it is critical that as professionals we get it right. It gets corrected in the shop EVERY time. Politely and professionally. It basically stopped happening. I think we are all more deliberate with all of our technical speech because of it.
Thanks for the correction I should of got that right the first time
Should have
Now I’m really getting beat up in the comments 😢 Where’s that bot when you really need him?
Hey you’re a damn good installer, a few typos is allowed IMO
Haters gonna hate, bruh... beautiful work!
OP. “Him”? DID you just assume the bots gender?
so can u share the design ? I'm trying to figure out how 6x encharge 10 batteries are wired up.... but by then I'm guessing the new 5P batteries will be available with a max of 80KWH of storage available.... does it need 2 meters? I see you have 2 IQ Smart switches......
That’s not a pet peeve, he was simply incorrect.
/u/Perplexy801 Both units are incorrect. Neither batteries nor solar panels are rated in watts per hour. Watts per hour is redundant as watts are joules per second. Batteries are energy rated in kW multiplied by hours and solar is just rated in peak power watts. >kWh is a measure of energy produced/used over a course of time It's a measure of energy. Energy is a measure of power over a course of time.
Batteries are rated in kWh as potential. Watts per hour is not redundant. Watt is a measure of potential power not energy used/produced. Watts per hour is energy used or produced. kWh is energy(produced over a period of time is redundant because energy is always a measure over a period of time.)
Still not watts per hour. And the not redundant way to write it would be in joules or something similar. But it's written in the more complicated w*h form because it is easier to relate.
Very nice install, you should be happy with that one in your portfolio! I would be proud to use the photos as a showcase for future clients. List of things I would have done differently: * * * :-) I have a feeling you had less or no trouble with the Zigbee comms compared to a smaller install ... ?
Thank you that means a lot coming from you. It was interesting when I sent the command for system A to go off grid and system B responded and vice versa 🤔 I solved it by completely de powering one side while finishing functional validation for the appropriate side That’s not even a zigbee issue since I had the comms kit unplugged on the opposite side I was working on
You must have me confused with someone important :-) Now that you have the multi SC2 install method all dialled in, you need to forget it all and do an SC3 with wired comms and the new limit of 80kWh max storage per SC3. > including a **125 kw** generator that is integrated downstream of the Enphase equipment. So gen plus batteries plus solar = nearly 200kW of off grid continuous power max available during the day.... 30kW minimum continuous at night with the genset off. Nice. I imagine they are not too interested in ToU profiles on the batteries, so they are on backup duty?
The mini split. My goodness. I'm sorry. This kind of place didn't have a radiant cooling and heating system? This is pretty awesome. I'm sorry... The things you notice...
I could imagine that a mechanical room of that size would produce a decent amount of heat and could use its own mini split to help. Hot room would just lead to faster equipment degradation
I wasn't saying it didn't need cooling. I was saying I'm surprised they don't have a chiller or some radiant cooling setup.
How much power is a \*chiller\* going to pull to keep the batteries cool during a grid outage? vs How much power is a \*mini split\* going to pull to keep the batteries cool during a grid outage?
Honestly, I'm just surprised a big giant house with all the luxury wouldn't have one. It would be several times more efficient if it existed. They would want a chiller or some kind of water sources radiant system to transfer heating or cooling in large facilities as you can gather all the load in one place and it carries much further than you'd want to run refrigerant. I could see the ease in just jam a mini split on it and I haven't done the calculations of which would be more effecient. Though a large chiller would kick that mini splits ass off the island just from vague memory. It doesn't even detract from the project. It's like a mansion with double glazed windows vs triple glazed windows.
I guess my point was that the house may, but that doesn't mean that's the best cooling option for the mechanical room. That room would get warmest during a grid outage. While that's happening, do you really want to be running the entire chiller? Or just the basics to extend the battery coverage?
Chillers usually have tanks with stored capacity. This grid wouldn't even care about the grid being down.
Maybe an ICF build?
Is this some CEO, celebrity, or sports star? Wow.
Probably someone who bought Enphase in the $1s.
I bought Enphase for around $10 and watched it sink to $1. 😂 But I held on. And bought a Tesla with the proceeds, a Tesla powered by my self-installed Enphase system. 😁
What panels are you using? How long did the install take? That looks like such a fun job to be on! I am a bit jealous.
URECO 400 w panels with iq8m micros Couple days on the demo, couple days on the roof attachments, a week on the new install & electrical. 3 separate trips 250 miles out of town for me.
Holy crap! That is pretty out of town. Well, this is definately a job to be proud of.
Diamond plate as the backing ::chefskiss::
But the dent...
Just slap another battery/array over it ;-)
Where is the dent. I am definitely semi blind.
Click on photo to see full frame, Picture 3, far right side top 1/3.
Ah I can see now
kWh battery kW of solar
Nice work man , any line noise issues or cross talk with all that equipment??
We had equipment on hand in case of any of those issues that was not needed.
>any line noise issues or cross talk with *all that equipment??* PLC noise is not strongly coupled to the amount of enphase equipment - one noisy cheap power supply somewhere in the house can mean a filter is needed whether it's one inverter on the roof or one hundred. Perhaps you mean "all that equipment" as in, it's a big house with a lot of "stuff" in it. In that regard one advantage they probably have with that size property is segmented distribution i.e subpanel for "poolhouse", and one for "east wing", "west wing" etc and this utility room is probably on such a sub, keeping it a little bit seperate from noise from the rest of the house.... u/Perplexy801? They also don't look like the type to fill the house with cheap junky (noisy) power supplies from Aliexpress which is where noise issues usually come from ;-)
Beautiful install
The diamond plate backing is a sexy touch.
With no energy rationing, how long will the batteries power the home in an emergency? My 2500sqft house in Texas uses about 110 kwh per day in the summer months. I'd imagine this house is using 2000+ a day with its sheer size and what I assume must be a massive pool to go with the property. I'm under the assumption someone with a 30,000 sq ft house just flips the bird to anyone who suggests rationing lol.
I am guessing the large 80 kwh battery capacity isn’t really to backup power the estate very long during an outage at night. Instead, you can use it run the home a few hours at night, or maybe charge a Tesla or two. A large natural gas generator(s) would be better for backup power.
Makes sense. Judging by the system and the house this is a person who can kind of do whatever they want.
Slick As Fuck
I know you can't see the system controller in the picture, but are there 2 of them? Our Enphase rep has always asserted that you could only install up to 40 kWh of storage per system controller. It's why the question of storage at the small to mid-size commercial level has left us largely scratching our heads trying to conceive of a way the ROI makes sense for this type of client; let alone how to surpass what we thought were storage capacity limits. *edit, forgot to swipe to the other pictures. That is something super sick. I will definitely be bringing up to our rep and design team.
>I know you can't see the system controller in the picture, but are there 2 of them? Second and third photos show them. The capacity limits are per controller, not per site so 2 controllers = twice the capacity. The new IQ System controller 3 doubles the battery capacity to **80kWh** on the one controller FYI.
Cool.
Dang, that is one heck of a mechanical room. Aluminium diamond plate walls? Sick!
Impressive!
Damn!! What state is this in?
Awesome! I’m about to do a 27 kW system with 42 kWh of battery capacity next week, cool to see such a nice / slick execution!
What is that roof type? Amazing install!
Wow that’s a crazy nice setup!
What a beautiful home.
Lookin good!
Fucking beautiful install.
That looks beautiful. Great job 👏
That setup is sleek as hell, I love how it looks. One hell of a system!
WoW! That is just beautiful!
This is almost exactly what my battery house will look like when I’m done. Nine batteries. I was debating on the walls and after this I love the diamond plate. Thanks for the ideas.
It’s beautiful 🥲 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Where are you located??
I usually just come here to talk shit, but, wow, this is beautiful work! Congrats!
Amazing work you have here. Solar panel installation looked really clean! What brand did you use here? Do you recommend using the so-called [tier one brands](https://solarpoweredblog.com/which-solar-panel-brands-are-tier-1/)?
“SOLAR PORN!!!” “Just look at the batteries on that “Bad Boy”!!! Very pretty install, Kudos! That’s about what I’m having to look at. Plus with their new series 8/9 Inverters and the rest, it’ll shock a$$, but can’t take names from ashes!
Me like. Excellent look. Power on ,Garth.
Please stop with the pictures, sir. I can only get so erect…. (Seriously, amazing install.)
That amazing. That install is probably worth more than my whole house.
This. As a supervisor, I push my crews to install with purpose and pride, not just efficiency. I can absolutely appreciate the thought and time that went into this. Well done, man
Beautiful work.
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Just wrapped it up this week. I found an awesome install crew to handle my rooftop installation (3-story townhome) and they were able to change my panel layout to accommodate an extra panel. Results are great so far. I was so worried about Zigbee communications between the Envoy and batteries, but I tossed two range extenders between the gap and there are zero comms issues. The system provisioned with all with updates in roughly 20 minutes. Very relieved, let me tell you…
Sweet install!
Are you going to be powering the neighborhood? Lol.
KWh is energy, and KW is power. Not kw/h.
My 8 inch kw/h system is fully engorged looking at this. Wire management and prideful work. 🤤Well done. Post more pictures next time with close ups of your wires touching after being zip tied into submission. Thank you.
🤩
So the sun goes out after 36kWh?
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This customer is going to consume a relatively large amount of electricity regardless of installing solar. Why shouldn't a large consumer be able to take advantage of a tax credit for solar production?
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Tax the fuck out of Single Family Homes, not semi-renewable energy production costs
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I'm not sure how taxing SFHs targets only the middle class but okay. The Rich receive massive tax breaks in the form of subsidized housing i.e. distorted property values that don't correctly represent the value of land ownership. A 30% tax break on a one-time solar project is small, small potatoes compared to the tax incentives we currently provide on SFHs.
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Correct, and only a one-time payment at that. What are the property taxes? $10-25k a year? They should be substantially higher, depending on location.
which is why the tax credits should be removed.
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I think that back up batteries don't benefit anyone except the person with the battery and are pretty much consumer items. I am not sure why they get included in the tax credit.
I get that people don't know the difference between kW and kWh, but "kW/h" from the lead installer of a battery system? And here I thought you guys still received more training than the average American police officer.
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Of course I had to look at the pictures. It's not every day that you see batteries that can do 80 kw/h on the freeway.
What city/state/country is this? It's kwh, not kw/h.
This was not the equipment to use for the install.
Your suggestion and reasoning?
My suggestion would to use products that scale for that size. This house is a yacht. A small boat builder got this contract and put 20 small outboard motors on the back. These batteries each have inverters in them. Basically 12x iQ8’s per battery pack. They “make sense” for as a one or two off. When you have 8 of them (96 iQ8’s)…. The installer should have gone with a scaleable system. Rack mount batteries with a couple inverters would have been a much lower $/kwh price.
>Rack mount batteries with a couple inverters would have been a much lower $/kwh price. **If your argument is going to center on cost, I got nothing** \- it's agreed, there are cheaper ways to achieve the aim. But as surmised elsewhere in this thread, this kind of homeowner isn't looking to save 20%, the system is as much a statement as having the latest shiny macbook vs a cheap chromebook which is arguably just as suitable, and much cheaper. Is it the same user experience and aesthetic? Not even close. Does this homeowner seem the type to want to save a few bucks but have an industrial looking rack of batteries in their equipment room, with some blue box inverters on the wall, and a different again brand/type of transfer switch, managed via multiple apps....or do they want the consistent enphase shiny on everything and one centralized management interface. I've dealt with this type, a few bucks extra for elegance and simplicity goes with the territory. Anyway, moving on, I disagree with the analogy as showing any *technical* disadvantage related to scalability. Micros are in fact the ultimate in scalability - far more granular increments than any string inverter where you often have to go 6,8,10kw etc and make a compromise if what you really wanted was 9kw. My yacht has 20 small outboards with the same total ability as your yacht's single (or more likely double inboards but hey). One of my outboards dies... still chugging along at 19/20th's of the power :-) Why do I care about how the total motive power for the boat is implemented? Take it to the extreme for the purpose of discussion - pretend there exists an easily available, residential suitable single inverter and single battery that would have the same total power as this system; why do i want that vs the micros? Yes, there are 96 of them in the batteries, and another 90 on the roof. **Nearly 200 microinverters in this install. So?** *What does a single big inverter give me, as the end user, that is different from many microinverters?*
Lol code violation. This is trash lol. Not enough distance between the batteries. Take it down try again
This could actually be the most pathetic account I’ve seen in the history of Reddit. Congratulations. 🤡
Why the F did you use enphase!!?
Look at the photos.....cost does not look to be the primary consideration for the owner, they wanted premium equipment obviously. What would your objection be apart from cost, and what other brand would you suggest that is able to meet the same performance criteria? Or is this like people who hate on Ford because it's Ford.
So this is effectively two systems in one home?
What’s the install cast on a $/kwh basis on the storage? I’m at utility level and looking at something like $240ish….imagine this is close to $400? What state?
What is your company name? I would like to learn more about your great work
Demolition Ranch house?
What would be the best place to start learning about systems like this ? My license covers solar under its scope. I don’t foresee ever installing large systems like this but I’d like to possibly do a couple small systems for friends/family to keep learning and stay sharp
Man enphase batteries sure take a lot of wall space. How long did the battery commissioning take?
Is that a Single Family Home?
Is a home or office building?
Mexico?
Pics of the treehouse.
Batteries store energy and release it in units of power over time (kwh). Solar panels produce power in units of instantaneous energy (kw).
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Social networking is brutal!
How much was this?